[SPOILER] 2008 British GP

[blue8]

Round 9: Santander British Grand Prix
Silverstone, UK

Half way through the 18-race F1 season and we've had four championship leaders and only 10 points between the top 4 drivers. With the traction control and driver aides banned, the season is proving to be very unpredictable. The only thing that seems to be certain is Ferrari dominating the constructors' race. Then again, in F1, anything can happen!

The weather is (again) predicted to be rainy all throughout the weekend as with most of the races this season. I'd be happy with a wet qualifying session and a relatively dry race. I think the last time that happened was in Suzuka 2005 (?).

The rain will also likely threaten the Wimbledon finals during the weekend.

Practice 1
http://195.60.16.189/westfield/images/f1/massawreck.jpg
Massa crashses possibly due to oil on the track after Alonso goes off earlier during the session.

Times:
Pos Driver Team Time (Laps)
1. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:19.575 (8)
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.587 + 0.012 (15)
3. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.623 + 0.048 (13)
4. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:19.948 + 0.373 (16)
5. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:20.367 + 0.792 (11)
6. Alonso Renault (B) 1:20.436 + 0.861 (7)
7. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.588 + 1.013 (18)
8. Piquet Renault (B) 1:20.653 + 1.078 (16)
9. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.698 + 1.123 (16)
10. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.744 + 1.169 (27)
11. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.892 + 1.317 (10)
12. Glock Toyota (B) 1:21.102 + 1.527 (22)
13. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:21.107 + 1.532 (18)
14. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.166 + 1.591 (17)
15. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:21.265 + 1.690 (22)
16. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.282 + 1.707 (21)
17. Button Honda (B) 1:21.901 + 2.326 (7)
18. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.169 + 2.594 (16)
19. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.219 + 2.644 (19)
20. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:24.123 + 4.548 (4)

[Kissyface]

I'd be happy with a wet qualifying session and a relatively dry race.



That would definitely make for an interesting grid and hence, an interesting race. We haven't been wanting of an interesting race so far this year. I love the Silverstone circuit and it has a history of drama so we shouldn't be disappointed.

[styla21]

If you guys are watching practice - Keep us posted on any worthwhile updates! My net is shaped and I'm missing the whole thing :(

[blue8]

Practice 2:
Times
1 H. Kovalainen McLaren 1:19.989 35 laps
2 M. Webber Red Bull 1:20.520 32 laps
3 L. Hamilton McLaren 1:20.543 31 laps
4 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:20.589 36 laps
5 N. Rosberg Williams 1:20.748 43 laps
6 S. Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:20.805 43 laps
7 J. Button Honda 1:20.929 39 laps
8 F. Massa Ferrari 1:20.943 18 laps
9 K. Nakajima Williams 1:20.985 18 laps
10 R. Barrichello Honda 1:21.002 34 laps
11 R. Kubica BMW 1:21.023 33 laps
12 K. Räikkönen Ferrari 1:21.275 31 laps
13 N. Heidfeld BMW 1:21.453 36 laps
14 T. Glock Toyota 1:21.472 18 laps
15 F. Alonso Renault 1:21.511 27 laps
16 G. Fisichella Force India F1 1:21.520 42 laps
17 S. Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:21.634 39 laps
18 N. Piquet jr. Renault 1:21.642 45 laps
19 A. Sutil Force India F1 1:21.756 30 laps
20 J. Trulli Toyota 1:22.196 23 laps


In related news, Donington Park will host the British GP starting 2010:
Silverstone will host its final British GP next season after the FIA confirmed that the race would be moving to Donington.

The Northamptonshire circuit, which played to the inaugural race of the F1 World Championship back in 1950, has come under fire in recent years with F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone the track biggest detractor.

There been issues with parking, pits and outdated facilities, which the British Racing Drivers Club have tried to resolve, the latest being a planned upgrade to the pit lane facilities.

However, it now remains to be seen whether the updates with go ahead as the FIA announced on Friday that the British GP would be moving to Donington Park in 2010.

"Finally the uncertainty is over. A contract has been signed with Donington Park and the future of the British Grand prix is now secure," said Ecclestone.

"We wanted a world class venue for Formula One in Britain, something that the teams and British F1 fans could be proud of.

"The major development plans for Donington will give us exactly that. A venue that will put British motor sport back on the map.

"I am sorry that we could not have helped Silverstone to raise the money to carry out the circuit improvements and run Formula One.

"I believe that the government should have supported them which would have cost probably less than .002% of the government's commitment for the Olympic Games."

FIA President Max Mosley added: "After many years of patient but fruitless negotiation with the BRDC, we are delighted that Bernie has nevertheless been able to ensure that the British Grand Prix will keep its place on the Formula One World Championship calendar.

"We understand that the development programme planned for Donington will achieve the very high standards we and FOM expect from a modern F1 circuit. Finally, British Formula One fans will get the Grand Prix venue they deserve."

Donington Park last staged a round of the F1 Championship in 1993 when Ayrton Senna won the European GP.

I'm not really familiar with Donington Park, but I'm very disappointed because Silverstone was one of my favorite tracks!

I just remembered - this announcement comes at a very bad time because Silverstone is celebrating their 60th anniversary.

[thiago]

Massa is The Man!
Thank God he's all right after the crash and DAMN, HE IS FAST!
After shredding his Ferrari, he then returned to the track and did 1min19s575 a lap that even faster than last years pole, when Lewis did 1min19s997. The man is leading even after his accident!
Now that's driving! Let's see if he gets another pole for us!
YES! Vai Massa! Porra! :devil:

[gobs3z]

This is definitely Massa's chance to shine, but I'm extremely annoyed on how Silverstone has gotten away with not upgrading their track while tracks around the world have to constantly upgrade to keep the F1 going there, but I love Silverstone, I just don't like the extremely unfair practices. (a little animosity from losing the U.S. Grand Prix for no reason). F1 overly favors the British, and they don't even try to hide it, and yes i understand the British history behind F1, but get with the times.

[thiago]

Hey folks, I was wondering if someone would possibly know how to setup a proxy that would work for US residents to watch the ITV F1 coverage (UK only videos). I've tried pretty much everything and still can't get it to work right...
Thanks!

[turpija]

video of Massa crashing, I think it was Alonso who spilled some oil on the track and that's why Massa spined/crashed
http://www.viddler.com/explore/KRS_Evenstar/videos/98/

here is link for live streaming
http://www.coresworld.net/F1/

[thiago]

video of Massa crashing, I think it was Alonso who spilled some oil on the track and that's why Massa spined/crashed
http://www.viddler.com/explore/KRS_Evenstar/videos/98/

here is link for live streaming
http://www.coresworld.net/F1/

NICE!
Thank you so much for the links! :thumbup:

Going back o my original question: Does anyone know how to fool ITV's F1 website and watched it outside of the UK?

[Kissyface]

(a little animosity from losing the U.S. Grand Prix for no reason)

:crying: I FEEL YOUR PAIN! :crying:


From 2000-2007 I had the convenience of driving less than an hour and being at the USGP at Indy. You can be sure that the reason is money. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway spent two years and millions of USD to accomodate F1 and yet we now have no race. There is a line from Ecclestone in the F1 Saga documentary where he states that "F1 is so good it destoys all other forms of racing". I guess he was upset that he was proved wrong here.

[go1d1e]

Stupid question.. What is it that both the Ferrari guys are messing with just next to their right knee? I have not noticed anyone else doing the same thing.. Must be an adjustment of some kind, just wondering what.

I am stuck in the US aswell, it is going to be shown on FOX which does not show it live :(

[chattapiou]

Hey guys,
Is anyone could tell me the best way to go from London to the circuit? I do not have a car but can rent one. Thank you. Maxime

[Jona]

Go Finland!

Iceman and Niceman FTW! :D

[Mattk]

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/795/6531/

Qualifying has just finished. Kovalainen on pole, followed by Webber, then Raikonnen. Hamilton fourth, the Heidfeld fifth, with the two Renaults of Alonso and Piquet sixth and seventh respectively. Vettel up in eighth with a good performance, but Massa and Kubica down in ninth and tenth, rather disappointing for them.

[Kissyface]

http://lord_k.home.comcast.net/F1.2008.GP.Britain.Qualifying.Results.jpg

Really an unexpected grid lineup for tomorrow. I'm guessing the wind had alot to do with why some had good times and others not. Kimi alluded to this in his post-qualifying interview. But seeing Massa on row 5 is making me think there is something in this setup thats not quite optimal. I'm also thinking there are some unconventional fuel strategies at work here too. Anyone have any ideas why the grid is so mixed-up? I'm going to study this time sheet until I get some answers!
BTW Anyone know what was wrong with Kubica's car?

[yellky]

KUB didnt complete the lap in Q3 - problems with rear suspension i think :/
no idea what happened to MAS..

[blue8]

I'm also surprised by today's qualifying results! I expected Ferrari to dominate especially in this track. Perhaps they're expecting rain tomorrow so the team had to come up with some strategy???

[thiago]

I don't think a 9th place on grid is really where Ferrari indented to be. Massa is behind because he didn't have good luck with his pit stop when mechanics could not remove front right wheel. So he didn't have enough time for a second run and fight for first of second row on grid. But I think he should finish within the point zone tomorrow, and I hope some people in front end up retiring from the race (how about some cool accidents?), giving him a better chance to win. ;-)

[STiInYourEye]

Stupid question.. What is it that both the Ferrari guys are messing with just next to their right knee? I have not noticed anyone else doing the same thing.. Must be an adjustment of some kind, just wondering what.

I am stuck in the US aswell, it is going to be shown on FOX which does not show it live :(

I believe it is some sort of adjustment for the brakes. I am not sure if it is a brake bias adjustment or not, but I think I remember it being commented on last season because Raikkonen was messing with that lever just before his crash in Italy.

[5vz-fe]

That's quite some time difference between the first 10 cars.

[Jona]

It's going to be a wet race... this will be interestting :)

[Mattk]

Interesting indeed. Kubica and Massa showed some good pace in various stages in the wet in Monaco, maybe we can expect a good charge from them.

[thiago]

Not a good race at all for Massa... :thumbdown:
Congrats Barrichello pe de chinelo!

[styla21]

Interesting indeed. Kubica and Massa showed some good pace in various stages in the wet in Monaco, maybe we can expect a good charge from them.

Aaaaaaand you jinxed them. LOL :mrgreen:

What an awesome race.. Well if you can call it that. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time!
Gotta feel for Ferrari, and Heiki, and Kubica. Very interesting result. :-)

[Kissyface]

Yea! Lewis! Awesome...fantastic race! Been waiting for this. Say what you will about the guy, he is pure driving talent in the rain. :2guns:HATERS

[fordgt84]

Wooooooow!! what a heart in the mouth, sweat inducing race!! it was one of the most exciting and unpredictable races ever, i loved every minute of it... can't say massa enjoyed it as much as i did though :mrgreen:

Yea! Lewis! Awesome...fantastic race! Been waiting for this. Say what you will about the guy, he is pure driving talent in the rain. :2guns:HATERS
+2 :laugh:

[toffytofik]

GJ by Lewis Hatemelol. Rubens - the best driver today, finally took Honda to the podium.

[Jona]

What a race! Great stuff. Props to Lewis and Rubens, they drove great. Championship is getting really exciting now. Finns didn't do as well as I expected, but hey, this is racing at it's finest :) Anything can happen.

Awesome race, very exciting!

[styla21]

Gotta give props to Heidfeld too, for making two passing moves, that took two cars each time.. Very cool to watch!
Rubens was great to listen to as well in the press conference, so humble, and good to see his intense passion for the sport. :thumbup:

[Pokiou]

There you go. I hope all you Lewis hatters sit on a very big cactus! Bad mouthing a stunning driver like him self.... your a disgrace to motor sports and motor sport enthusiasts. All the drivers today where spectacular... Kimi, Massa, Rubens and Webber, but Lewis was that little but better.

Can't wait for the next race!

Pok.

[yellky]

oh come on, am i the only person here who saw nothing impressing in HAM's driving today?
he just didnt make any mistakes (finally!) - it's a bit easier when you're in front of everybody..
and he was in front 'cause KOV let him go - team ordered? no, of course not, it's illegal....

HEI made my day today :thumbup:
btw, why why didnt KUB use extreme wets on his 2nd stop?

Ferrari? disaster..
Pokiou :: i really wouldnt call MAS spectacular ;)

[5vz-fe]

Man, Ferrari has been making bad decisions on pits since Brawn left.

[styla21]

Pokiou :: i really wouldnt call MAS spectacular ;)
HAHA! 5 spins? Agreed... The Ferrari's appeared to be quite twitchy!:-)

[Spiffu]

If I was massa right now, I'd be border line suicidal.

[SHIZL]

imagine if it kept raining hard there and ruben pulled it off that would of been crazy great job as it was crazy point standings as of now

[Mattk]

I know, styla! Massa finished last after spinning around three or four times (although he did reel off a few really quick laps towards the end) and Kubica didn't even finish. It was good to see Heidfeld and Barrichello back onto the podium, though, especially Barrichello. Raikonnen suffered from a spin and a tyre-choice risk gone awry, but I thought he did well to climb back up to fourth. Likewise, Kovalainen did well to get back past Alonso after a late spin.

[blue8]

Possibly the best race of the season so far, along with Australia and Monaco (I'm not particularly thrilled that Hamilton won all those races though). There was barely any dull moment in the race and there were also a lot of overtaking that happened. The race definitely opened the championship with Lewis, Felipe and Kimi tied at 48, Kubica with 46, while Heidfeld is just down 12 points. While the season wasn't as good as last year, Hamilton is achieving his dreams with wins at Monte Carlo and Silverstone - could the WDC be the next? (I hope not :mrgreen:)

Off-topic, the Wimbledon finals was absolutely epic!!!

Great weekend for sports in the UK!!!

I just picked this up from Planet F1. I didn't know Heidfeld overtook two cars twice in the same corner! Brilliant!

Overtaking Move of the Race
Nick Heidfeld, BMW on Trulli and Alonso
Or
Nick Heidfeld. BMW, on Kovalainen and Raikkonen
Oh what a glorious thing that humble ECU is. Its presence in managing engines has eliminated traction control. Traction control's absence has given us F1 drivers in corners fighting for grip. In turn this has led to overtaking moves the like of which we have not seen for years.

In the last few races we've had Barrichello overtaking at an impossible corner in Monaco, Massa overtaking two at a time on the grass in Canada and now Heidfeld at Silverstone putting two glorious double overtaking moves on seriously good drivers (two World Champions included).

His careful manouevering around the outside and then the inside of Trulli and Alonso through Luffield and Woodcote was a joy to see once - for him to repeat it later at the same spot - with Kovalainen and Raikkonen - was almost like witnessing lightning striking twice.

On the weekend that Donington were theoretically given the British GP from 2010, Heidfeld's careful passes were reminiscent of Ayrton Senna's opening lap at the circuit's only GP of 1993. On that day Senna fell back to sixth and then drove through to first place on the opening lap, finding grip no-one else could find.
Now that Nick has cracked how to heat his tyres up for qualifying we are going to see an invigorated Heidfeld challenge. And the person most likely to lose out from that is Robert Kubica.

[styla21]

Agreed, Matt ^^.
So the question is, is Hamilton the only guy NOT to spin? :-)
Nevertheless, he demonstrated some solid wet-weather skills, to back up the Monaco wet-weather race win.

His careful manouevering around the outside and then the inside of Trulli and Alonso through Luffield and Woodcote was a joy to see once - for him to repeat it later at the same spot - with Kovalainen and Raikkonen - was almost like witnessing lightning striking twice.
That is a great way to summarize! My eyes were popping out of my head!

[mts6800]

I believe it is some sort of adjustment for the brakes. I am not sure if it is a brake bias adjustment or not, but I think I remember it being commented on last season because Raikkonen was messing with that lever just before his crash in Italy.

It is a brake bias adjustment. I think it was first seen in the Schumacher era. It's most effective when braking downhill and uphill. How much time it's worth I don't have a clue but when hundredths of a second can make a difference it's easy to see why it would be used.

[turpija]

Agreed, Matt ^^.
So the question is, is Hamilton the only guy NOT to spin? :-)


Hamilton didn't spin but he went off track when heavy rain started later in the race.

He showed some good driving BUT, they(McLaren) said that his setup was made more for wet then the dry weather, so I'm guessing big part of his great lead is simple setup difference, not to mention Heikki which let him pass and then blocked Kimi and Alonso while both of them were faster then Lewis, great team work :-D

[go1d1e]

It is a brake bias adjustment. I think it was first seen in the Schumacher era. It's most effective when braking downhill and uphill. How much time it's worth I don't have a clue but when hundredths of a second can make a difference it's easy to see why it would be used.



I figured it may of been something like this, but why is it only that I have noticed the ferraris doing it? Seems as though if anything really works, everyone does their own version of it. That and I figured something like that would be on the steering wheel like everything else.


Great race, enjoyed it a lot.

[bluedemon]

This was a freaking awesome race, Lewis lapped everyone but 2nd and 3rd place. Thats damn impressive. Felt bad for Massa with all the spins but what about Kimi? He spun twice and still got 4th. Thats pretty impressive as well. Good job to Honda as well, well deserved 3rd place.

[mts6800]

I figured it may of been something like this, but why is it only that I have noticed the ferraris doing it? Seems as though if anything really works, everyone does their own version of it. That and I figured something like that would be on the steering wheel like everything else.


Great race, enjoyed it a lot.

AFIK only the Ferrari drivers make adjustments based on track position on each lap. I'm sure the other cars have an adjustment available but the drivers either don't use it or it's not easily seen. Also AFIK brake bias adjustment is mechanical and not likely to be made electronic, thus it's not on the steering wheel.

Brake bias tweeking will help when going down hill or up hill and not on a big hill for an F1 car and driver aiming to extract maximum performance.

I agree it was a really great race!!

[Pokiou]

It is a brake bias adjustment. I think it was first seen in the Schumacher era. It's most effective when braking downhill and uphill. How much time it's worth I don't have a clue but when hundredths of a second can make a difference it's easy to see why it would be used.


A smiliar system was in the car of Hakkienen and Coulthard but was banned.. ahhh FIA and there favoritism... ...

the system in the Mclaren was a 3rd pedal that applied rear brake only which im sure can be done with the leaver also...

anyways.. its open to discussion.. and people are still using these as examples how how FIA penilises the mclaren team... sad if you ask me.

[mts6800]

A smiliar system was in the car of Hakkienen and Coulthard but was banned.. ahhh FIA and there favoritism... ...

the system in the Mclaren was a 3rd pedal that applied rear brake only which im sure can be done with the leaver also...


Actually the 2 pedal McLaren system is not at all similar. Brake bias refers to how much of the, single pedal, force is applied to the front wheels and how much to the rear wheels. The 2nd McLaren pedal applied braking force to one of rear wheels only.

Applying braking force to one or the other of the rear wheels can change the direction of the car thus has a steering efffect. That was the basis of the ban as only one steering system is allowed. Whether it was a good ruling or a fair ruling is a matter of opinion, and of course everybody has one.

[Pokiou]

The leaver adjusts the brake bias right which in returned altered how the car steered right... just the same way the 3rd pedal did for Mclaren...

[Mattk]

^But it did not in itself steer the car, unlike the McLaren system, and therein lies the difference.

[mts6800]

The leaver adjusts the brake bias right which in returned altered how the car steered right... just the same way the 3rd pedal did for Mclaren...

I am not sure what you are saying but maybe it's that you think the Ferrari system adjusts the braking force from the left to right wheels and vice versa instead of betwen the front wheels and rear wheels.

Left to right would be against the rules and I doubt it works that way. I think it's simply front to rear. Also, left to right would not steer the car.

If you know it's left to right and vice versa I would be interesting in reading about it, so post links if you can.

[Pokiou]

The rear braking system on the mclarens car had no steering affect what so ever.. there article is here...

Banned: McLaren’s rear brake pedal (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/05/24/banned-mclarens-rear-brake-pedal/)

24 May 2007 by Keith Collantine
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/mikahakkinen_small.jpgOf the dozens of technologies banned by F1’s governing body through the years, McLaren’s rear brake pedal stands out as one of the most unjust bannings.
It was banned early in 1998 as McLaren made a stunningly dominant start to the year. Following a protest by Ferrari the system, that had previously been declared legal, was outlawed.
Many at the time suggested political motives were at work - and a desire to keep McLaren from getting too far ahead.
The 1997 Grand Prix of Luxembourg was held at the Nürburgring in Germany - a ruse to allow both Germany and Spain to have two Grands Prix - Spain also hosting the ‘European’ round.
It began well for McLaren with their two Mercedes cars leading ahead of the top brass from the German manufacturer. But it fell apart in the cruellest possible fashion when both David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen’s cars ground to a halt on the start/finish line within a lap of each other.
Depressing as the spectacle was for Ron Dennis, he didn’t know things were about to get much worse. The cars stopped near F1 Racing photographer Darren Heath, who had been waiting for just such an opportunity.
He snuck over to Hakkinen’s car, thrust his camera deep into the footwell, and clicked the shutter repeatedly.
Foot operated clutches have been a thing of the past in Formula 1 for many years, so a drivers footwell typically only features an accelerator and brake. But Turner was expecting to see a third pedal when he had his roll of film developed - and that’s exactly what he found.
F1 Racing splashed the photographs all over their November edition - McLaren’s independent rear brake pedal had been rumbled mere weeks after it had first been pressed into service. The team had used it one week before the Nürburgring, at the A1-Ring, where sharp-eyed onlookers wondered why their cars’ rear brakes were glowing on the exit of some corners.
The pedal allowed the drivers to operate either of the rear brakes independently of the others. This gave them two additional means of controlling the car and improving the performance - by reducing either understeer or wheelspin depending on which wheel was braked and when.
It was an ingenious system that in one respect didn’t add any new functionality to the car, merely a new way of operating its existing braking systems. Nonetheless Ron Dennis was furious to see it exposed after such a short time in service.
McLaren continued with the system in 1998 by which time they had leapt from front-of-midfielders to runaway championship leaders. Now their immediate rivals - chiefly Ferrari - protested the rear brake pedal on the grounds that it was primarily a steering system.
Although the system had previously been passed fit to race by Charlie Whiting the stewards at the Brazilian Grand Prix - the second round of 1998 - ruled against the rear brake pedal.
It was unsavoury to see a perfectly valid system banned on such a dubious technicality when it had been declared legal on other previous occasions. But it was not the first nor the last time that it happened.
It did not stop McLaren from running away with the Brazilian Grand Prix - or from winning both championships that year.

[mts6800]

The leaver adjusts the brake bias right which in returned altered how the car steered right... just the same way the 3rd pedal did for Mclaren...

I am not sure what you are saying but maybe it's that you think the Ferrari system adjusts the braking force from the left to right wheels and vice versa instead of betwen the front wheels and rear wheels.

Left to right would be against the rules and I doubt it works that way. I think it's simply front to rear. Also, left to right would not steer the car.

If you know it's left to right and vice versa I would be interesting in reading about it, so post links if you can.

I am asking about the Ferrari system. In your quote above are you saying the leaver (sic) is on the Ferrari? or the McLaren. I was asking about a link to the Ferrari system if that's what you were talking about. If so the text you posted has no information about the Ferrari system.