Large Hadron Collider and hilarious overreactions

[HeilSvenska]

It's a bit nerdy, but... :mrgreen:
http://www.lhcountdown.com/?p=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

http://gizmodo.com/392324/spammer-keeps-whining-about-large-hadron-collider-assploding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_of_the_Large_Hadron_Collider

[styla21]

Extremely nerdy.... But recreating the birth of the universe is....... *bursts out laughing* ....pure insanity! :twisted:

That's the most out-there, courageous thing I have read in a while! Good luck to them and i'll be watching what happens!:thumbup:

[Mattk]

The science is beyond me but the general plan seems pretty neat!

[Spiffu]

I keep thinking Black Mesa when I look at the pictures of this place.

"Please activate the mass spectrometer Gordon..."

It's an absolute giant project in the long run of things. 17 miles in diameter and 600 feet under ground.

[Kissyface]

I heard about the project about a year ago on NPR's All Things Considered and checked out the CERN website then and was quite awed.

Listen to Pt.1 page http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9433495
Listen to Pt.2 page http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9473392

...and the follow up a year later...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89265915
Scientists in Geneva are readying the largest particle accelerator ever built. But BPP regular David Morgan says at least two men are suing to stop the accelerator because they fear it will swallow all of planet Earth.

Edit: added LHC podcast link at iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=251294167

The forum here at MW never ceases to amaze me lest I forget great minds think alike.

[HeilSvenska]

Now it's on its way to becoming one of the coldest thing in the universe! :mrgreen:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7512586.stm

[RC45]

Oddly enough if this experiment was to be conducted in the US - the entire project would be literally blacklisted by the very same community that is currently embracing it ;)

[silentm]

haha man this is great i'm really excited as how this will work out!

hmm imagine this whole thing quenches... omg biggest explosion on earth ever? :D

[Spiffu]

1.9 degrees Kelvin...so the accelerator will be operating at just barely over absolute zero.

What the hell are they using to super cool that thing without destroying the materials around it.

[silentm]

What the hell are they using to super cool that thing without destroying the materials around it.
the article says liquid helium. i guess it to be in some kind of metal tubing.

1.9 degrees Kelvin...so the accelerator will be operating at just barely over absolute zero.
barely over 0 kelvin would be around a half billionth K which was achieved by a science group in the US

[graywolf624]

mass spectrometer
I just have to point out, since I work for the world leader in mass specs.... a mass specometer isnt a colider.. its a measurement device to measure mass at the atom level.

[HeilSvenska]

Monitor the cooldown process online. :mrgreen:
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/Cooldown_status.htm

[silentm]

hmm looks like sector 8 - 1 still has a long way to go :)

[unwilling]

hmm imagine this whole thing quenches... omg biggest explosion on earth ever? :D

nothing compared to a meteorite striking us :-)

[silentm]

probably not ;) but then again it depends on the size of the meteor

[Spiffu]

It's not an explosion they are worried about but rather an implosion, as in black hole. Or possibly causing another big bang.

But that's the paranoids spouting that crap, the safety report should have never stated those possibilities.

[HeilSvenska]

They're not actually doing collision tests tomorrow, but they will be shooting a proton beam inside the collider.
http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2008/PR06.08E.html

Live coverage of the activation
http://webcast.cern.ch/index.html

[nthfinity]

to even think that we can re-create the power required to do anything that happens in massive effects found only in the celestial bodies is naive.

[HeilSvenska]

Here's a 5 minute scientific outline of the project.
Large Hadron Rap - YouTube

[Spiffu]

I have my crowbar ready, no head humpers are gonna get me.

Found this, very informative for the non-particle physicist types.

Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [1 of 3] - YouTube

Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [2 of 3] - YouTube

Large Hadron Collider - The Search For The Higgs [3 of 3] - YouTube

[loliea]

Here's a 5 minute scientific outline of the project.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM
OMG it's all clear now, I get it! :laugh:

[Spiffu]

Oh, just in case shit goes down, he's got our back.

http://spiffu.com/stuff/freeman.jpg

[79TA]

LOL, nice!

[HeilSvenska]

http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/09/firstbeam1.jpg
That's hot.

[silentm]

i love it!

[Nikkolaz]

gordon freeman is gonna save us if a portal pops up

[philip]

Lisa Randall from Harvard will be there to keep us safe.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6387/lisarandallxq3.jpg

She's my favorite Physicist right now. She will be hoping for some extra dimensions to show them selves. Maybe a brane or two.

[Spiffu]

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Found these tonight, they give you a glimpse into the compact muon solenoid experiment.

[RC45]

Lol :lol: - hopefully its not a preview of coming events ;)

[HeilSvenska]

Teen commits suicide after 'end of world' reports

A TEENAGE girl in central India killed herself on Wednesday after being traumatised by media reports that a "Big Bang" experiment in Europe could bring about the end of the world, her father said.

The 16-year old girl from the state of Madhya Pradesh drank pesticide and was rushed to the hospital but later died, police said.

Her father, identified on local television as Biharilal, said that his daughter, Chayya, killed herself after watching doomsday predictions made on Indian news programmes.

"In the past two days, Chayya had asked me and other relatives about the world coming to an end on Sept. 10," Biharilal was quoted as saying.

"We tried to divert her attention and told her she should not worry about such things, but to no avail."

For the past two days, many Indian news channels held discussions airing doomsday predictions over a huge particle-smashing machine buried under the Swiss-French border.

The machine, called the Large Hadron Collider, was switched on on Wednesday, at the start of what experts say is the largest scientific experiment in human history.

The machine smashes particles together to achieve, on a small-scale, re-enactments of the "Big Bang" that created the universe.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24328351-401,00.html

[10000rpmlover]

1.9 degrees Kelvin...so the accelerator will be operating at just barely over absolute zero.

What the hell are they using to super cool that thing without destroying the materials around it.


liquid nitrogen

oh well, enjoy yuour last moments, grap a mp3 of portishead's glory box, some astro glide or some other slippery substance, close your eyes, think about monica bellucci, best way to go

[Jona]

oh well, enjoy yuour last moments, grap a mp3 of portishead's glory box, some astro glide or some other slippery substance, close your eyes, think about monica bellucci, best way to go

Man, you've thought this through, haven't you? :mrgreen:

[Spiffu]

Teen commits suicide after 'end of world' reports

So I guess natural selection does work!

I'm sorry, I just can't feel sorry for people like that. Third world country + kid f'ed in the head (obviously) = an hero.

[Spiffu]

Uh, oh.

http://spiffu.com/stuff/gman.jpg

Well that's two for two.

We should all be ready for the 7 hour war.
Half-Life 2 - Intro - YouTube

[silentm]

So I guess natural selection does work!

I'm sorry, I just can't feel sorry for people like that. Third world country + kid f'ed in the head (obviously) = an hero.
hmm well that is what i thought first but this girl is indian and therefore because of her hindu belief and something i don't get about dying in this world and not being able to reincarnate with the black hole and whatnot she decided to kill herself.

a rather sad story :-(

Liquid Nitrogen
no chance, you can't go that far down with liquid nitrogen. what i believe is used is actually liquid Helium (well that is what they use in our NMR machines at the institute, and they operate at around the same temperature range)

[Spiffu]

As the saying goes, religion is the opiate of the masses, in this case it was cyanide.

[dutchmasterflex]

Hahaha.. all the half-life stuff is just too good to be true.

[Spiffu]

So apparently an accident did happen during the start up test.

But a resonance cascade did not occur as we all were fearing.
Resonance Cascade - YouTube

An electrical malfunction caused a leak of sorts, of liquid helium in the acceleration tunnel. So now they have to heat up that section to ambient temperature and fix the problem, then re-cool it back down to near absolute zero. (as in minus 400 degrees or so)

This process is supposed to take 2 months. :(

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/20/hadron.collider.damage.ap/index.html

Of course this could be a cover story. :P

[philip]

Uh, oh.

http://spiffu.com/stuff/gman.jpg

Well that's two for two.

We should all be ready for the 7 hour war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyjKCzyU21k&feature=related

You have to worry a little when the men in suits don't know how to fit a hardhat.:mrgreen:

[HeilSvenska]

Wow...


[W]hat the FUCK is going on here? Am I the only person who thinks God Particle, possible Black Hole on the French/ Swiss Border, Recreating The Big Bang, etc, are all phrases I only want to read in New Gods? Where the fuck is James Bond and why isn't he KILLING these French fucks before they even push the button? Saddam was invaded and hung for not even HAVING nukes primed for his neighbours. These freaks genuinely risk ending the world!!!!

And for what? To see how the universe might have begun? Who gives a fuck? 5 billion pounds on a scientific folly when old people can't afford to heat their homes or kids are starving? Get outta here, egg-head! I don't care about dark matter, dark energy or even other dimensions. Best case scenario is we're sucked into a black hole, every atom in our body screaming as we die in a nano-second. Worst case scenario we're in The Mist or Cloverfield as Lovecraftian mofos come through this doorway and munch their way through us. Europeans creep me out, but none more so than Euro-SCIENTISTS. I declare a Jihad on all these boffins who risk reality itself in the name of their curiosity. No wonder Pol Pot killed everyone who wore glasses. At least you know where you are with bullies and jocks!!

-Creator of the Wanted comic book, Mark Millar

[styla21]

Well, my respect for him just disappeared ;-). A rant with no substance.

[silentm]

An electrical malfunction caused a leak of sorts, of liquid helium in the acceleration tunnel. So now they have to heat up that section to ambient temperature and fix the problem, then re-cool it back down to near absolute zero. (as in minus 400 degrees or so)
it's -459,67 degrees fahrenheit for y'all yanks ;) or -279.15 degrees centigrade for the rest of the world

and good job finding Gordon, i feel very safe now :laugh:

[nthfinity]

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Seems they are ahead of schedule, and have brought it back online!

[RC45]

Say what you want, but this guy makes a FANTASTIC point:


And for what? To see how the universe might have begun? Who gives a fuck? 5 billion pounds on a scientific folly when old people can't afford to heat their homes or kids are starving?


This whole experiement is just as stupid as the CDC nut jobs that have reanimated the 1918 Flu virus - just to see how it works. (Just to clarify, the 1918 virus is more deadly than the current birdflu strains, because this one is airborne and human ready.. ;))

These folks are not pursuing these experiments in the "pursuit of science" - theya re simply in the "pursuit of dollars". ;)

Science for greed - has pretty much been the primary motivator for the last 30 years.

[Spiffu]

This whole experiement is just as stupid as the CDC nut jobs that have reanimated the 1918 Flu virus - just to see how it works. (Just to clarify, the 1918 virus is more deadly than the current birdflu strains, because this one is airborne and human ready.. :wink:)

These folks are not pursuing these experiments in the "pursuit of science" - theya re simply in the "pursuit of dollars". :wink:

Science for greed - has pretty much been the primary motivator for the last 30 years.

They haven't even performed any experiments yet and you're blasting this kind of ignorance, you sound just like the guy you are praising.

Open your mind and read up on some astrophysics and astronomy. These people realize there is more to the universe than themselves and the space two feet in front of them.

[RC45]

They haven't even performed any experiments yet and you're blasting this kind of ignorance, you sound just like the guy you are praising.

You are so hell bent on coming across as an insulting cock you TOTAlLY missed the ACTUAL point of my post.

The "5 billion pounds on a scientific folly when old people can't afford to heat their homes or kids are starving?" is the part I commented on.

The real and actual USABLE gains that the 10 billion dollars spent will be rather minimal at best. They can't even get the equipment to work properly for goodness sakes.


Open your mind and read up on some astrophysics and astronomy.

Again ASSuming that just because I question the astonishing price tag and minimal realworld gains I don't have a brod interest or am not well read.


These people realize there is more to the universe than themselves and the space two feet in front of them.


Sure they do - and 80 years after the atom was first split and promised the world abundant clean energy all we really have to show for the great scientific discovery is 10,000's of nuclear warheads and about 500 "nukeular" powerplants generating less than 20% of the world electricity.

Oh, and Hiroshima, Nagasaki, 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl.

[Spiffu]

I'm sorry you got so offended, but...

Regarding nuclear power, it takes a few lemons to make lemon aid. The the fact that there aren't hundreds or thousands more reactor plants around the world is the fault of stubborn politicians and their legislations and ignorant, paranoid hippy morons and think they anything with the word nuclear is evil.

In San Diego a large group of people protested the docking of nuclear submarines in the harbor, not realizing nuclear carriers had been docked their for decades. The Navy basically told them to fuck off.

The cost of the LHC is really small considering the size and scope of it compared to other scientific projects. The lawrence livermore labratories have projects going on ten times in cost. $5 billion is pocket change in the scope of major projects on the world scale these days. *cough*Iraqwar*cough*

I think it's a small price to pay in exchange to possiblly learn innermost properties and workings of our universe. A lot of the things they are looking for a clues to theories in finding a way around the light speed barrier. Not that we've come any where close with convential means, it's just that we want to find that it's theoretically possible.

So far all previous colliders like the one in Fermilab and the Heavy Ion Collider in New York have made tremendous discoveries. The LHC is seven times more powerful than any of those.

[RC45]

The cost of the LHC is really small considering the size and scope of it compared to other scientific projects. The lawrence livermore labratories have projects going on ten times in cost. $5 billion is pocket change in the scope of major projects on the world scale these days. *cough*Iraqwar*cough*

Pounds.. not dollars.


I think it's a small price to pay in exchange to possiblly learn innermost properties and workings of our universe. A lot of the things they are looking for a clues to theories in finding a way around the light speed barrier. Not that we've come any where close with convential means, it's just that we want to find that it's theoretically possible.

And how does this help a suburbanite in Perth or a starving child in Ethiopia or an immigrant in Russia being beaten up because he is a black muslim or an unwed mother in London or a family in Detroit trying to pay their rent or a baby drinking poisonous formula in China?


So far all previous colliders like the one in Fermilab and the Heavy Ion Collider in New York have made tremendous discoveries. The LHC is seven times more powerful than any of those.

Which have hepled the ordinary citizens of the world how?

[Spiffu]

The further advance of knowledge of the human race? Sorry that sounds so trite. If humans didn't have intellectual curiosity we would be no where near where we are today as a society. The unknown is always what we go after.

Sorry, it's not going to feed the poor or build dams. Go join up with Sally Struthers if you want a bigger soap box for those kind of issues.

The fact of the matter is countries and even individuals (Bill Gates) donating much much larger sums to third world countries and it still hasn't made much of a difference.

By the way the processor you're using to your words is most likely using quantum tunneling in it's cpu architecture. An observation of electrons in quantum mechanics at Fermilabs atom smasher.

So yes, practical means have come from these experiments.

[philip]

In San Diego a large group of people protested the docking of nuclear submarines in the harbor, not realizing nuclear carriers had been docked their for decades. The Navy basically told them to fuck off.

I visited the Natulis museum and submarine near Mystic Conn. after a while I realised, it was a very fancy spent nuclear storage facility.

The new collider in Europe is small compaired to the one that was planned for Texas near Dallas that was later cancelled by congress due to its cost. Physicists in the US have been sucking hind tit ever since then.

Day 12 no electricity.

[RC45]

So yes, practical means have come from these experiments.

All of which is moot if the west collapses under its own greed... I never once said I am against progress - not once... but the pursuit of "progress" without lifting ones head up once i a while can be just as disastrous as no progress.

You know those Taliban dudes with a bullet with your name on it? They are only using cellphones as a means to an end, not becaus they "dig progress and discovery" - when the hordes overrun the LHC I dont think they will care what its intended use was - they will just raid it for parts for their camel wagons ;)

[Spiffu]

The new collider in Europe is small compaired to the one that was planned for Texas near Dallas that was later cancelled by congress due to its cost. Physicists in the US have been sucking hind tit ever since then.

My dad served on the Nautilus. :)

All of which is moot if the west collapses under its own greed... I never once said I am against progress - not once... but the pursuit of "progress" without lifting ones head up once i a while can be just as disastrous as no progress.

You know those Taliban dudes with a bullet with your name on it? They are only using cellphones as a means to an end, not becaus they "dig progress and discovery" - when the hordes overrun the LHC I dont think they will care what its intended use was - they will just raid it for parts for their camel wagons

Jeeze you can go off on a tangent. First the poor and homeless, now terrorists. Sound like one of Bush's speeches.

The LHC has been under development for 20 years. It's a multi-national effort which makes the price of 5 billion even less. If not for the the whole dooms day premonition BS, we wouldn't even be having this thread since the pursuit of science doesn't make news, sensationalism does.

Drop the melodrama.

[nthfinity]

While we're at it, lets disband all scientific research studying the cosmos on the most macro level of physics that exists, because that isn't relevant either. :-\ Who needs a 100 Meter fully movable satellite dish that can detect the faintest of signals from the furthest, quietest, and most significant zones of our universe. We aren't talking ET, but the building blocks of Time itself.

Lets talk about that 20% of the worlds energy coming form nukelur energy... or at least the west. That is 20% that allowed 20% more expansion of infrastructure, construction, living etc. etc. to exist. 20% is no small portion.

so much science wouldn't exist without WARTIME necessity. Out of the need to communicate came the ENTIRE study of Radio Astronomy. Without Radio Astronomy, there would be no cell phones. There would be no wireless phones, there would be no digital communication whatsoever. Not to mention countless other benefits that modern radio astronomy has brought direct and indirect technology we take for granted, and will in the future.

[RC45]

Jeeze you can go off on a tangent. First the poor and homeless, now terrorists. Sound like one of Bush's speeches.

Why bring Bush into it? The anti-western movement far predates Bush - senior and junior...


The LHC has been under development for 20 years. It's a multi-national effort which makes the price of 5 billion even less. If not for the the whole dooms day premonition BS, we wouldn't even be having this thread since the pursuit of science doesn't make news, sensationalism does.

So as long as some boffins have their noses stuck in some project for 20 years then it; ok for rest of the world can quietly slide into chaos.

Drop the melodrama.
Actually if people paid more attention to the melodrama then financial, energy and immigration crisis like we are currently experiencing would not have happened.

Because all the while some of us were calling for changes and oversight, we were laughed down as cooks and drama queens

I have been asking why domestic oil exploration was being curtailed the day I learned of the fact in the mid 1990's.

It made ZERO strategic sense then, yet somehow "other more important endeavors" were pursued... - what good is a successful LHC if you dot get to reap the benefits of any knowledge gained because the world around you has gone to hell?

Call me all the names you want, but I have an uncanny track record o being correct - maybe it because man is essentially evil and destined to fail so my pessimistic outlook has a greater chance of being correct hehe
;)

[Spiffu]

Then go make a thread on pessimism. There are plenty of other threads here on how the world is jacked up. This isn't one about it.

Go sell your corvette and send the proceeds to some cause.

[RC45]

Then go make a thread on pessimism. There are plenty of other threads here on how the world is jacked up. This isn't one about it.

This thread is about the LHC and I commented on a posted story.

My comments seem almost more relavent that yours.


Go sell your corvette and send the proceeds to some cause.
Why would I do that? I never once indicated that I wanted you or I or anyone else to "give to a cause" - I just suggested there may be merit in observaitons about overspending on marginally needed projects.

[silentm]

so basically you are just whining and lamenting 'because you can'? O.o

[RC45]

so basically you are just whining and lamenting 'because you can'? O.o

That is what the opening post is asking for - right?

[silentm]

the opening post was about some funny stuff concerning the LHC and us wanting to act a littel nerdy, so why whine?

[RC45]

the opening post was about some funny stuff concerning the LHC and us wanting to act a littel nerdy, so why whine?

Whose whining?

[HeilSvenska]

Eh. No matter. We won't have to bicker for a while since the LHC is deactivated till April for repairs.

[RC45]

Eh. No matter. We won't have to bicker for a while since the LHC is deactivated till April for repairs.

I am of the belief the entire "project" is just a front for scientist to play with cool shit and get to spend millions in grant money ;)

Think about it, this way they get more money and more play time hehe

[HeilSvenska]

Hahaha. Interesting idea. I'm a science geek, so I don't really believe that, but that would be hilarious. Perhaps the "malfunction" of the LHC and the "delay in testing" wasn't so accidental afterall? Bahaman vacations for everyone! :laugh:

[nthfinity]

Hahaha. Interesting idea. I'm a science geek, so I don't really believe that, but that would be hilarious.
thats how it almost always is.... w/out a budget, all they have is theories. The grander the theory, the grander the project to test, and discover. Shit may roll downhill; but budgets are always an escalation ;)

Still, their discoveries lead to new technology quite often.

[RC45]

Hahaha. Interesting idea. I'm a science geek, so I don't really believe that, but that would be hilarious. Perhaps the "malfunction" of the LHC and the "delay in testing" wasn't so accidental afterall? Bahaman vacations for everyone! :laugh:

Think about it.

It is its own little economy... local builders, contractors, house sales, small and medium equipment sales, land sales, water provisioning, electrical contracting, urban renewal managment, grounds keeping, landscaping, catering, cleaning and waste disposal - hell I have not even started listing the actual scientific suppliers and players - those are just the local small business owners feeding off this cash cow ;) hehe

[Spiffu]

It's their money to spend, and advancing the knowledge of the human race will always be a much more worth while cause than bailing out idiots who didn't know a hurricane was coming three days out.

Intimidation from the unknown is for the primates, I for one welcome welcome our subatomic overlords.

[RC45]

It's their money to spend,


What money is "theirs" to spend? Grant money? That is not "theirs" but rather "ours" as grants are sourced from taxes collected.


and advancing the knowledge of the human race will always be a much more worth while cause than bailing out idiots who didn't know a hurricane was coming three days out.


This comment is pretty moronic and uncalled for. I would like to see how much of a supercilious loudmouth you still are when faced with a) having to leave your home behind or b) have no way to remove yourslef from the area.

And I am not only talking about people living on the water, but also the large scale broader impact a storm can have.

What is your problem all of a sudden? Seems like you are PMSing recently - get over yourself already.

[10000rpmlover]

helium in large quantities... hydrogen particles smashing onto each other...

I know they are smart and all but did any of them remember what E=MC2 does when applied to smashing particles?

is there an exact control of how many particles hit each other?

what are they doing with the neutrons that are multiplied after a hit?

no... I am sure they have thought about it, I am sure the similarities with the inner workings of a star are just coincidence... I am sure they did think about what a chain reaction could do in a machine that big... I am also pretty convinced they did read Einstein's work...

I mean not doing so, would be uncivilized

[philip]

Lisa Randall from Harvard will be there to keep us safe.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6387/lisarandallxq3.jpg

She's my favorite Physicist right now. She will be hoping for some extra dimensions to show them selves. Maybe a brane or two.


Per the newspaper today, the problem was attributed to some bad soldering on one connection. Lisa probably had nothing to do with finding the problem, but I just wanted to see her photo again.

[HeilSvenska]

Lisa probably had nothing to do with finding the problem, but I just wanted to see her photo again.
You think you can handle it? :mrgreen:
http://marquimail.marqui.com/Marqui/Home/3210/3857/images/randall2006.jpghttp://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4245/lisarandallmg1.jpghttp://www.freewebs.com/mind_physics/Dr.%20Lisa%20Randall.jpghttp://discovermagazine.com/2006/jul/interview-randall/randall1small.jpg

[RC45]

You think you can handle it? :mrgreen:
http://marquimail.marqui.com/Marqui/Home/3210/3857/images/randall2006.jpghttp://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4245/lisarandallmg1.jpghttp://www.freewebs.com/mind_physics/Dr.%20Lisa%20Randall.jpghttp://discovermagazine.com/2006/jul/interview-randall/randall1small.jpg

You think she has any nudies up on the net?? :laugh: