M3 vs 997 turbo vs GTR

[ferrari550]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2009_nissan_gt_r_vs_2008_porsche_91 1_turbo_comparison_test Bit of a weird comparison. RC will love this i think.

[yg60m]

Thank you for the link :-) This GT-R is a killer.

[silentm]

haha gotta love the comments and ratings that test got :lol:

[toffytofik]

Haha, those bashers from thetruthaboutcars.com posted the prank appology letter allegedly sent by C&D to Nissan after publishing their mag comparo article!! Check it out! A damn good laugh!!! :laugh:


Scoop! Letter from Car and Driver to Nissan Leaked to TTAC


http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/06/vision_quest_52_gallery_image_large.jpg (http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/06/vision_quest_52_gallery_image_large.jpg)



In the July issue of Car and Driver, the BMW M3 coupe beat the Nissan GT-R in a comparison test. I couldn't understand how this happened, or even why they'd be comparing the two, until I found a copy of this letter:


Dear Nissan,

You may have noticed (we hope someone does) that BMW's M3 beat your GT-R in our recent "Vision Quest" comparo. We want to apologize for this. Please don't feel bad. The GT-R really is a great car, as witnessed by the fact that we rated it higher than the Porsche 911 Turbo. But as BMW is secretly our parent company, they demanded that their M3 win any and all comparisons. As we are contractually obligated to have a BMW win at least four comparisons a year, well, it was your turn.

We did give Nissan the inside back cover and wrote a nice one-year update on the Altima. There are also a couple of complimentary articles about the Infiniti G35xS and the FX50S. Oh and by the way, that FX50S is an impressive ride, but you really need to do something about the silly "bionic cheetah" moniker that you've attached to it.

Anyway, rest assured that we feel very badly about placing the GT-R behind the M3. Even though the M3 is slower in the quarter mile, 0-60 and around a track, the BMW does have a bigger back seat and more usable trunk space.

Again, please take solace in the fact that your GT-R totally demolished the Porsche 911 Turbo, which is a worthless car. By "worthless" we mean it's an OK enough car, but Porsche doesn't spend enough money advertising in our magazine. When was the last time you saw a two-page ad for a 911 or an inside cover ad for the Boxster? I wish we could stop covering their lame cars altogether, but they've weaseled themselves into an important position in the automotive industry with all of their performance, history and heritage. So try as we might, we can't ignore them.

Enough about the third-place finisher, the over-powered 911 Turbo. We are here to apologize for that first place finish awarded to the M3.

If we were really honest, the M3 wouldn't have been in the comparison. It's in a totally different class than your GT-R. The thing is, our comparo is the first in a new series with cars competing out of their league. We think our advertisers (that's you!) will love this new marketing plan. It will give prestige to the lower end cars. Next month, a Nissan Rogue will beat the Porsche Cayenne. Just think how Nissan salesmen all over the country will be able to promote the Rogue as the "SUV that beat the Cayenne!"

The month after that, the Nissan Sentra will win against the Lotus Exige. Of course, we need to keep our journalistic integrity. So we'll use the base Exige vs. the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V. The little Lotus won't stand a chance. I mean have you seen the back seat in an Exige? No, you haven't, because there isn't one. The trunk? Tiny! Rear doors? Nada! The Nissan Sentra is obviously the superior car. A lot of automotive reporting outlets don't have the courage to compare an Exige to a Sentra, but we think it's time–once again– to put your money where our mouth is.

If you think about it, this will work out better for Nissan in the long run. The GT-R can withstand a second place finish to the benchmark BMW M3. (Sorry, we're contractually obligated to put the word "benchmark" at least once every time we write about BMW, and technically we are writing about them.) Anyway, as the first year supply of your GT-R is sold out, what do you care? It's not as if someone's going to say, I WAS going to buy a Maxima, but now that the GT-R got beat by a Bimmer I'll buy a high-mileage 3-Series.

Bottom line (our first and only concern): we're truly sorry for the second place finish to the M3. We wanted to write it as a tie, but the Germans have no sense of humor. (Just imagine if we'd written "Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make GT-Rs instead.")

But we don't want this article to damage our mutually profitable relationship. And if you want to be mad at someone, have you seen what that "The Truth About Cars" web site is saying about the GT-R's record around the ‘ring? The nerve of some people. Adiosu!

Yours sincerely,

Car and Driver Magazinesource: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/scoop-letter-from-car-and-driver-to-nissan-leaked-to-ttac/

:mrgreen:

[RC45]

That AWD system responds not only to wheelslip but to the same sensors used by the stability-control system (steering-wheel angle, yaw rate, speed, and lateral acceleration). When the stability control is in “R” mode or when it is switched off, the GT-R’s AWD system doles out power between the axles to stabilize the car’s handling.


I other words, the GT-R is only able to perform when the aids and gizmos are able to hide the weight and lack of power.

[04RCSTI]

Wow that letter is extremely damaging for C&D

[HeilSvenska]

Wow that letter is extremely damaging for C&D
Did you actually read the letter all the way? :-P

[RC45]

Did you actually read the letter all the way? :-P

Few GT-R fans do ;)

[toffytofik]

Wow that letter is extremely damaging for C&D
Not at all. That www.thetruthaboutcars.com (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com) is famous for bashing reviews and rants on different cars which seem to be their trend. I wouldn't take their typings too seriously nor i think the manufacturers and most people do. Must admit though, sometimes they are good for a couple of laughs :mrgreen:

What C&D really should be worried about is the comments & opinions of their readers which for the most part are negative in relation to that particular article. They've lost a fair bit of credibility with this one i'm afraid..

[5vz-fe]

Not at all. That www.thetruthaboutcars.com (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com) is famous for bashing reviews and rants on different cars which seem to be their trend. I wouldn't take their typings too seriously nor i think the manufacturers and most people do. Must admit though, sometimes they are good for a couple of laughs :mrgreen:

What C&D really should be worried about is the comments & opinions of their readers which for the most part are negative in relation to that particular article. They've lost a fair bit of credibility with this one i'm afraid..

The readers that bother to make comments are mostly GT-R fanboys and they can't accept the negative side C&D brings. There is a chance that the copy of GT-R C&D get has been abused by other press before getting to their hands. Another possibility is that the GT-R's ECU is sensitive to gas / air temperature / humidity...causing it to bog down on power. (Which also possibly explain why Nissan keep stressing their record lap is set in the PERFECT condition...I would expect more power under those condition)

The reliability of DSG boxes has always been a concern for higher power motors. That is why VW only match it with the 2.0T engine. However, this tranny setup is essential for the performance of the GT-R. 70 something corners in NS translate to hundreds of gear changes, even time shaving of 0.05 second per shift advantage will translate to 10 seconds of time penalty.

[04RCSTI]

Few GT-R fans do ;)

Who is a gtr fan? I dont like the car...

And I didnt read either the comparo article, nor the letter fully. I just breezed through it since the comparo clearly had NOTHING new to say and the letter looked pretty fake. I didnt think someone would quote a bs letter.

[HeilSvenska]

^Just for laughs. ;-)

[toffytofik]

The readers that bother to make comments are mostly GT-R fanboys and they can't accept the negative side C&D brings.
GTR fanboys aside, you think most car enthusiast with common sense are totally ok with it? Have you actually read it? What it is about? They had the performance cars comparison. They compared 911 Turbo and GTR with BMW M3 that doesn't actually fit in the same performance category and even posted the numbers that show that. Verdict? M3 is the best performance car for the money! Makes sense?

Obviously that's how you should fairly rate those 3 performance cars: http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/107002/1449488/version/2/file/Vision+Quest+-+Results.pdf

Heck, even the M3 forums are in "WTF?" mode, i suppose as well as any other automotive boards where this article has been discussed.


P.S: i'm not against the C&D and their PR articles, i just don't care.

[04RCSTI]

Honestly, if someone told me: "You get to drive one of these cars right now, temporarily, not to own them, pick one." I'd choose the M3 then the Turbo and then the GT-R. I think the M3 is so much more of a driver's car than the other two and it would be about 50 Times more fun to drive...even if I were lapping 5 seconds slower.

[5vz-fe]

GTR fanboys aside, you think most car enthusiast with common sense are totally ok with it? Have you actually read it? What it is about? They had the performance cars comparison. They compared 911 Turbo and GTR with BMW M3 that doesn't actually fit in the same performance category and even posted the numbers that show that. Verdict? M3 is the best performance car for the money! Makes sense?

Obviously that's how you should fairly rate those 3 performance cars: http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/107002/1449488/version/2/file/Vision+Quest+-+Results.pdf

Heck, even the M3 forums are in "WTF?" mode, i suppose as well as any other automotive boards where this article has been discussed.


P.S: i'm not against the C&D and their PR articles, i just don't care.

I don't think it's a fair comparison either. I think, however, reader should see pass the fact. The comments on the GT-R is fairly honest. It also bring up some long-term effect that other magazines haven't run into.

[number77]

I'm confused. They didn't post the track times for all of the cars. Does anyone see this anywhere?

[HeilSvenska]

I'm confused. They didn't post the track times for all of the cars. Does anyone see this anywhere?
Obviously, according to the article, track times are less relevant, so they didn't have to.

[RC45]

I'm confused. They didn't post the track times for all of the cars. Does anyone see this anywhere?

What's to wonder?

The GT-R posted times 25s faster than a Formula 1 car.

[r2r]

What's to wonder?

The GT-R posted times 25s faster than a Formula 1 car.

:laugh: :thumbup:

[toffytofik]

I'm confused. They didn't post the track times for all of the cars. Does anyone see this anywhere?
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/107001/1449485/version/3/file/GT-R_M3_911_chassis.pdf

I don't think it's a fair comparison either. I think, however, reader should see pass the fact. The comments on the GT-R is fairly honest. It also bring up some long-term effect that other magazines haven't run into.
Yeah, i agree. Their comments on the 911 and GTR sound fair and pretty reasonable. But reading what they wrote about the BMW and by looking at those score ratings it's hard to miss the bias. All they wanted to say was "Buy the M3". And btw as the performance car in reality the E92 M3 is actually considered more of the fail evolution compared to the previous generations as far as i know. Somehow i think it turns to be less focused on performance than it used to be :?: Now it's more like a luxury sport coupe i guess, more daily cruising and fun, less pace...

[toffytofik]

Hey, Porsche looks like a toy car next to the M3 and GTR on this pic :-D


http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/comparison_test/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2009_nissan_gt_r_vs_2008_porsche_91 1_turbo/vision_quest_48/1450149-1-eng-US/vision_quest_48_gallery_image_large.jpg

[nthfinity]

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/comparison_test/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2009_nissan_gt_r_vs_2008_porsche_91 1_turbo/vision_quest_48/1450149-1-eng-US/vision_quest_48_gallery_image_large.jpg

Bridgeport, MI is a nice little city... and a great drive to get up there... in the "Thumb" of Michigan. At that Inn, former President Teddy Rosevelt ?(I can't quite recall) stayed there even :P

[5vz-fe]

I didn't realize the M3 is that big.....

[nthfinity]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/06/video-webrides-tv-pits-nissan-gt-r-against-ford-gt-in-super-lap/

The out of production Ford GT is .2 seconds faster on a tight tiny coned air strip deal.... with plenty of speed available still... but they pick the GTR? Find me one person who would take a GTR over a GT, and I'll find you a internet fanboy ;)

[RC45]

I didn't realize the M3 is that big.....

The new 3 series dwarfs the previous 5 series. It is really the new 5 series.

[nthfinity]

The new 3 series dwarfs the previous 5 series. It is really the new 5 series.

the 1 series 335 i is 500 lbs heavier then the c5 Z ..... where do they find the places to stick the weight i keep wondering?

At least with the Veyron, it is obvious....