View Full Version : AMUSE HOUSE GTR - ECU cracked..
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 03:27 AM
GT-R tuning update: Amuse breaks 600 hp, tranny woes at MCR
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/20071206-rev-02_450-op.jpg
With all the news surrounding the Nissan (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/08/spy-shots-nissan-gt-r-spec-v-confirmed-caught-running-the-rin/) GT-R (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/07/spy-shots-nissan-gt-r-spec-v/)V-Spec (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/08/nissan-gt-r-v-spec-lap-times-stun-observers/), the progress on the Godzilla tuning front has been largely overlooked. According to a recent article in Japan's BestCar magazine, the Amuse team has broken the 600 hp mark (at the crank) with a combination of a high-flow exhaust and a tweaked ECU. There were no details on how the GT-R's computer was hacked, but Amuse was able to up the boost to 18 psi, resulting in an increase in output to 602.73 hp and 576.95 lb.-ft. of torque.
However, tuners are beginning to question how the stock gearbox will hold up under the strain of additional output. MCR, which brought out its GT-R for filming of Hot Version (http://www.bestmotoringvideo.com/) 93, has been exacting its own brand of punishment on its tuned GT-R and is worried how long the transmission will last. It's not clear if the tranny woes are due to the clutch plates or something else, but it's been all but confirmed that dual-clutch gearboxes have an issue with additional torque since the friction surface is much smaller than on a stock (read: single plate) clutch. MCR's best guesstimate is that the stock 'box might only be able to hold up to the additional power for 12 months before problems begin arise. Now, we're particularly interested in how Nissan is beefing up the tranny on the V-Spec to handle its rumored 600 hp (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/08/nissan-gt-r-v-spec-lap-times-stun-observers/).
yg60m
05-08-2008, 04:34 AM
Thanks for the info. it really seems that the previous GT-R was much easier to tune ...
04RCSTI
05-08-2008, 11:42 AM
I called it, did I not? To all of you that said "no, the engine is already high strung" eat that. 600HP on tuning alone (come on like exhaust gets more than 20HP). I'm sure it can handle more. Next step I see coming is 660-700 @ 20-21.
rusrocket
05-08-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm really skeptical of the tuning business for the GT-R. It seems like Nissan went through great effort to make all the drivetrain components work together as efficiently as possible and messing with the ECU disrupts the synchrony they created.
5vz-fe
05-08-2008, 12:51 PM
It will always be tunable to a certain degree or else it will be a slap in the face for Nismo.
fordgt84
05-08-2008, 04:19 PM
I called it, did I not? To all of you that said "no, the engine is already high strung" eat that. 600HP on tuning alone (come on like exhaust gets more than 20HP). I'm sure it can handle more. Next step I see coming is 660-700 @ 20-21.
:laugh:
no doubt i'm sure the engine could handle abit more muscle, but i'm still worried about the gearbox though...
I called it, did I not? To all of you that said "no, the engine is already high strung" eat that. 600HP on tuning alone (come on like exhaust gets more than 20HP). I'm sure it can handle more. Next step I see coming is 660-700 @ 20-21.
If you're referring to me, you're equivocating with how the word "tune" was used.
Nissan has pushed the little 3.8 pretty far. I really doubt any big gains will be made with a tune by itself. Let's not forget that there's a slight possibility that it makes that much power already. (My guess as of now is something around 510 . . . with 15% drivetrain loss that would be about 434 to the wheels)
Like I everyone knows, more boost is always an option for more power.
Like I said, not much will come from a tune alone. Some sort of mod combined with a tune is a different story. If an owner wants to be a little braver with boost (or who knows what), I bet they could get much more just like you predicted.
600bhp?
*yawn*
Wake me when they get 600 to the wheels.
A 600bhp beached whale, is still a beached whale :P
pagani
05-08-2008, 05:22 PM
600bhp?
*yawn*
Wake me when they get 600 to the wheels.
A 600bhp beached whale, is still a beached whale :P
Soon
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 05:26 PM
Soon
They can always fit an LS3 in it to make it easier. ;-)
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 06:59 PM
600bhp?
*yawn*
Wake me when they get 600 to the wheels.
A 600bhp beached whale, is still a beached whale :P
LOL.. you banana :P :D
They can always fit an LS3 in it to make it easier. ;-)
Yeah - and that's way before you need to boost it as well....
04RCSTI
05-08-2008, 08:10 PM
I wasnt talking about you RC, i was talking in general because a few people said that it wasnt going to make much more power since it was high strung already.
You guys cannot be serious about the LS3 thing lol.
As far as the tranny goes, I think it should be able to hold 600 but I'd guess that its near the limit considering its 120hp up from what its usually at. I'd say that the tranny cant hold more than 650 without modifications of some sort...
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 08:14 PM
You guys cannot be serious about the LS3 thing lol.
What's wrong with the LS3? GM LS engines are some of the most flexible engines available. LS3 produces 430hp @ 4400rpm in the new Corvettes. You fit that engine with a twin turbo. 600hp? No problem.
The VR38DETT makes 480hp @ 6400rpm. I'm simply saying that it'll be easier and faster to make 600hp with the LS3. Kind of a "duh/dur" kind of statement, but oh well.
I just thought I'd remind you that the GT-R hater club isn't so unreasonable. ;-)
LS3 GT-R . . . . . .
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 08:20 PM
LS3 GT-R . . . . . .
I was obviously joking. I'd consider something like that a sacrilege. :laugh:
04RCSTI
05-08-2008, 08:21 PM
What's wrong with the LS3? GM LS engines are some of the most flexible engines available. LS3 produces 430hp @ 4400rpm in the new Corvettes. You fit that engine with a twin turbo. 600hp? No problem.
Yes, if it were up to some of you every sports car should have an LS3. Want more power? LS3 with twin turbos. Want even more power? SLAP 4 TURBOS on that LS3.
In fact the veyron actually has two LS3's mounted in a W.
Oh no, we're about to ruin another thread. Im done with this ridiculous argument before it starts.
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 08:27 PM
Damn right you are or ill end up sticking my right foot up your arse. And any that tries to take the topic off course!
Well, the LS7R has gotten a few awards . . .
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/13/corvette-racings-ls7-r-named-race-engine-of-the-year/
Why you ask . . . Because you can make that much power with an N/A LS3? Because it sounds better? Because it's a silly idea that wasn't meant to be taken as a serious suggestion?
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 08:30 PM
I'm just saying. The Engine of the Year award usually goes to the most technically advanced engine anyway, not on affordability, availability, maintainability, etc... And as I recall... the VR38DETT hasn't won any Engine of the Year award either, did it? ;-) And lots of small sports car manufacturers do use LS engines a lot.
I'm not saying the VR38DETT is a bad engine. I'm just saying that it's probably easier to make 600hp with the LS3.
Of course, this was a case of a joke taken too seriously. :-P
Of course, this was a case of a joke taken too seriously. :-P
What joke? I do believe their a couple of LSx Skylines posted on these very boards.. :P
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 09:32 PM
those skylines ar bastardised... Id rather a straight 6 turbo anydays then a lumpy cunky lazy v8... Unless its one of those less angled italian v8's
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 09:45 PM
Id rather a straight 6 turbo anydays then a lumpy cunky lazy v8...
Lazy V8s that win Le Mans! Whoop! :laugh:
What joke? I do believe their a couple of LSx Skylines posted on these very boards.. :P
It started as a joke, and as I was typing, I realized that it might be a good idea, although I'd hate to see an LS in Nissans. I've heard about too many 240SXs with LS1s... :-P
Anyways. The GT-R's transmission is a twin clutch system designed in-house? Ricardo already made DSG that can handle 1000ft lb of torque. I can't see why Nissan can't. Although it might not want to do that for just one specific trim of one model, that they can't use on any other model. As for the engine, I'm sure it can cope with 600hp. They've already had mad small displacement production engines that make like 150+hp/liter. (Jag XJ220, Bugatti EB110, B Engineering Edonis... wait they're pretty much the same car. These are, of course, hypercars.) Not sure about the servicing issues with those engines, though. With void warrantees, they'd better take the cars to someone who really knows how GT-Rs work or face Nissan's wrath for ruining their "perfect" car. ;-)
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 10:41 PM
Well weeeeeeeee are not talking about LeMans cars or F1 cars are we ?? lol
HeilSvenska
05-08-2008, 10:50 PM
Well weeeeeeeee are not talking about LeMans cars or F1 cars are we ?? lol
No. I sidetrack. But since you asked, I was talking about the LS7.R which is based on LS7 and has won a Global Motorsport Engine of the Year award. Nissan decided that the VR38DETT isn't fit for racing, so it put a 4.5L V8 in its GT500 car instead. (they did run VQ30DETT for a while with the 350Z, but they switched that with a V8 anyways) That's all. I'll stop talking about it if you stop bringing it up.
Do you think Nissan will keep the dual clutch system or they'll get a new gearbox for the V-Spec? I mean, these Japanese tuners must be worried for a reason, unless they don't know what they're talking about. Normal manual? Sequential manual? Just beef up the current one?
Pokiou
05-08-2008, 11:25 PM
i never liked the auto shift.. but it seems to be proving it self quite effectivly.. non the less it will need to be overhauled. OR im sure they can slap on a 6speed manual.
i never liked the auto shift.. but it seems to be proving it self quite effectivly.. non the less it will need to be overhauled. OR im sure they can slap on a 6speed manual.
Wouldnt a 6 speed manul then make the car slower than a diesel Passat wagon though? ;)
Pokiou
05-09-2008, 12:37 AM
why the wink ? why would it make it slower ?
torrentjunkie
05-09-2008, 12:57 AM
nice pic, looks good in red :-D, maybe irrelevant but found a gallery with some great pics
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/first-drive-2009-nissan-gt-r/733982/
why the wink ? why would it make it slower ?
Why? Becuase the only reaon the GT-R is fast is because of all the computer aids.
Computer aided gear shift, computer aided traction, computer aided stability - and I am willing to bet money on a situational aware and computer controlled over-boost.
With a conventional 6speed manual and clutch pedal the GT-R would be a 3900lb Mustang ;)
^ There is actually quite a bit of truth in that. Without the launch control, the GT-R took 4.0 seconds to get to zero. Quite a bit off form the herioc 3.2. Launch is one of those things where electronic aids can make a huge difference.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0803_2009_nissan_gtr_acceleration_test/index.html
No, this isn't contradictory to my other "no, the GT-R is too heavy to do that with that much power" type posts. No amount of traction wizardry can explain how a 2 ton car (probably just under 4100 pounds with a driver and gas) can trap at 121 mph with just 480 hp.
04RCSTI
05-09-2008, 01:32 AM
hahahaha. I think that the only route to go when the DSG starts to fail is an AMT with wet clutches. The DSG system certainly isnt meant to manage that much HP over stock. DSG takes a long time to perfect and to get it to work smoothly so you can bet that Nissan started with the engine and then developed the transmission around it. The system is definitely going to fail as you start to add more HP. The answer, I think, is either to make a DSG system that can handle the power, or an AMT such as the one in the F430, to handle all the power that the VQ38 can throw at it. An AMT with wet clutches is more than capable of handling the power due to the larger disc/contact patches. It just takes more development to get it into the same range that the F430 is at. The 599 gtb is at 100ms and it "feels" seamless. The F430 at 60 MS....is practically perfect. Make a DSG that can handle the power and shift quickly and you have a definite winner. (if this doesnt make any sense... blame it on alcohol)
Pokiou
05-09-2008, 03:51 AM
i dont think its teh DSG or the wet plates more or less the components that are used to make the car. I think the nissan can make about 600 maybe more hp with maybe just changing the plates inside rather then changing the whole box ? and if the box gets changed then that would add to weight and make other problems.. maybe use denser metal or carbon fiber?? why dont they make a gear box out of carbon fiber ? ... i wonder :S
pagani
05-09-2008, 03:52 AM
What joke? I do believe their a couple of LSx Skylines posted on these very boards.. :P
I posted the videos
And i quite like the v8 engine swap into the skyline
Pokiou
05-09-2008, 04:01 AM
Its lame useless and taking the post off topic!
Its lame useless and taking the post off topic!
Suck it up.
If we weren't here discussing all things GT-R there would be no-one reading your post at all.
:)
Pokiou
05-09-2008, 05:28 AM
:/ shut up :(
:/ shut up :(
You heard it boys... no more discussion allowed in this topic... I heard there was a great F1 topic three threads over. Let's go....
04RCSTI
05-09-2008, 12:21 PM
I highly highly doubt your electronic overboost theory.
GT-R is just another good car guys. Just take the positives... great engine, great transmission and apparently a pretty good chassis. Lots of technology and sticky tires. If it weren't for the weight, you have to accept it would be a really good car.
I'm not saying I like computers on wheels in fact I love the fact that my car has no driver aids other than ABS. But as compared to other cars, its pretty damn good.
I think what you guys are protesting the most isnt the car, but the hype fanboys and nissan have built around it with crazy claims...
I think what you guys are protesting the most isnt the car, but the hype fanboys and nissan have built around it with crazy claims...
exactly. It's fast. It is not Jesus. That is all.
I think I'll really like the spec V if it comes with a roll cage (like the old GT-R concept). I'm tired of cars that can only be legally run in the quarter mile once. It'd be nice to see a manufacturer stylishly integrate a roll cage into a road car.
exactly. It's fast. It is not Jesus. That is all.
I think I'll really like the spec V if it comes with a roll cage (like the old GT-R concept). I'm tired of cars that can only be legally run in the quarter mile once. It'd be nice to see a manufacturer stylishly integrate a roll cage into a road car.
The way Ruf intergrates the cage into his cars.
Very subtle, and as you say, allows you to come to the drag strip next to defend you sub-11.50 victory crown hehe ;)
HeilSvenska
05-09-2008, 03:55 PM
The way Ruf intergrates the cage into his cars.
Or the way TVR made them sexy with leather wrapped roll cage in the Sagaris. ;-)
Or the way TVR made them sexy with leather wrapped roll cage in the Sagaris. ;-)
I think the cage in the TVR was more to have something solid to hook the tow rope to... Ruf's seem a tad more reliable than TVR's ;) hehe
pitfield
05-09-2008, 06:46 PM
Hahahaha, put an LS3 in that? I big lump of iron, crap!!!!
Hahahaha, put an LS3 in that? I big lump of iron, crap!!!!
It is actually aluminium from top to bottom, weighs less, and is capable of producing more power in NA form from an engine with a physically smaller size..
Nice try though ;)
fordgt84
05-10-2008, 08:52 AM
nah i think they should find a way to beef up the double clutch gearbox... i dunno, i'm kinda used to the r35 with a dct, seeing a stick shift in one is gonna seem wierd imo
Hahahaha, put an LS3 in that? I big lump of iron, crap!!!!
I know RC already informed you that the LS3 has an aluminum block and aluminum heads, but I'd like to add that it's been that way since the LS1 in 1997. GM cars might not be your thing, but get with the program.
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