GTR vs. GT3 at Bedford by evo

[tforth]

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/217626/116_nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html

[madpony]

Thanks Nice vid

[silentm]

so they were sliding the GT3 around and whatnot but were driving clean with the GTR? what a crock of shit

[RC45]

so they were sliding the GT3 around and whatnot but were driving clean with the GTR? what a crock of shit

That's because no magazine wants to be "the one" to show the GT-R up for what it is.. a fraud ;)

This would be like a finding out Santa Klaus is a fantasy hehe

[nthfinity]

so they were sliding the GT3 around and whatnot but were driving clean with the GTR? what a crock of shit

wow, w/out the video, nobody would've known.....

I smell EVO funding conspiracy "say the GTR is better, and we will advertise a lot" ...

Journalistic integrety my ass

[04RCSTI]

I didnt see much sliding other than coming out of that last corner, maybe I should look at it again...

[tforth]

It is rather strange that nobody (i.e. the press/mags/etc.) have really mentioned any weaknesses that the GTR (or any car, for that matter) has. Steve Sutcliffe from Autocar mentioned during the launch that the car would probably be too stiff for British roads.

Then, in their first test in Britain, where they compared it against the 997tt, he mentioned that it didn't ride as smoothly and had less steering feel than the 997tt, but then pretty much dismissed these issues; which normally would have have been the death nell for any other car being reviewed. It's almost like it is the new R8:ohmy:...

I still think that it is a great achievement, especially from Nissan, but I am getting a little tired of the way they have compared it against various 911s, stating that it makes this icon seem like a piece of crap. I find it very hard to believe that they could have got it that right, first time (i.e. excluding previous Skylines of course).

[HeilSvenska]

^I guess it's because when it comes to cars like that, the ride doesn't really matter. No one ever complains about how harsh the Ferrari Enzo rides on British roads, do you? ;-)

Then again, many journalists seem like they're willing to allow concessions for the GT-R. Maybe they're sick of the Germans, or they're trying to whip up a sensationalistic story for the future. "Shock: GT-R not that good as we thought!"

[fordgt84]

it's the new auto journalist favourite, just like many porsches used to be... the porsche 911 GT3 RS has a crap ride and can't handle for sh*t in the wet, but it won EVO's car of the year award 2007... i still think the GT-R is a bloody good car just as those porsches are

That's because no magazine wants to be "the one" to show the GT-R up for what it is.. a fraud ;)
i can just about imagine u typing that statement with ur eyes all red with hatred never seen b4 :rofl::rofl::rofl:

must...resist...another...silly argument.... with ... RC45... there's no...point

[turpija]

they should compare it to GT3 RS

[turpija]

they should compare it to GT3 RS


oops double post, delete this

[toffytofik]

You'll be surprised, but that "sliding", e.g oversteer is simply the way Porsche goes on the limit. Remember, the engine is in the back so the back end is inert => tendency to oversteer (especially with RWD).

EVO is well known for their love for Porsches. I don't think they would favour the GTR. Looks like they actually favored the GT3 by putting a second passenger in the GTR. No one noticed? Oh, well...

add:
they should compare it to GT3 RSWhat's the point? On the track: GT3 RS >> GTR. These cars have totally different purposes. RS is a race spec track car (homologated for racing actually), base model GTR is the all around performer, everyday supercar if you want ~ suffers from excess weight severely.

[nthfinity]

^^^^^^
Whoever tought you that a 911 is fastest while oversteering isn't that smart. You NEVER set a fast lap while oversteering. The car visually corners faster before he starts sliding ;)

[turpija]

What's the point? On the track: GT3 RS >> GTR. These cars have totally different purposes. RS is a race spec track car (homologated for racing actually), base model GTR is the all around performer, everyday supercar if you want ~ suffers from excess weight severely.

well I don't see a point in comparing the GT3 to GTR either, they are also very much different cars, RS is just a little bit more hardcore version. Infact I would like to see similar powered car beeing compared to GT-R.

[nthfinity]

well I don't see a point in comparing the GT3 to GTR either, they are also very much different cars, RS is just a little bit more hardcore version. Infact I would like to see similar powered car beeing compared to GT-R.

But.... what happens when they say that the GTR is too hard for British roads, and the GT3 is not.....?

[turpija]

I don't understand what you wanna say:?:

[nthfinity]

I don't understand what you wanna say:?:

you say the two car's shouldn't be compared.... then what should they be compared against? the 911 Turbo?

[RC45]

You'll be surprised, but that "sliding", e.g oversteer is simply the way Porsche goes on the limit. Remember, the engine is in the back so the back end is inert => tendency to oversteer (especially with RWD).

Hmm - I have never seen this, every "fastest" time set yby a 911 that I have witnessed in person involved no sliding at all.

[silentm]

wow, w/out the video, nobody would've known.....

huh i don't get this? do you mean this in a sarcastic way? or not? :?:

I didnt see much sliding other than coming out of that last corner, maybe I should look at it again...

well open your eyes... you can see that he is clearly oversteering in at least 3 cases, and no i'm not going to tell you where just take a look at the vid again...

[toffytofik]

^^^^^^
Whoever tought you that a 911 is fastest while oversteering isn't that smart. You NEVER set a fast lap while oversteering. The car visually corners faster before he starts sliding ;)

Hmm - I have never seen this, every "fastest" time set yby a 911 that I have witnessed in person involved no sliding at all.

Did i said something about driving fast by sliding? I pointed the reason the car tends to oversteer on the limit. (i should've specified though ~ while trail-braking into a corner). Obviously one would try to avoid that by adjusting his entry speed. And that vid wasn't the best example of driving a Porsche, i agree. He was driving rough and oversteered to much.

[nthfinity]

Did i said something about driving fast by sliding? I pointed the reason the car tends to oversteer on the limit. (i should've specified though ~ while trail-braking into a corner). Obviously one would try to avoid that by adjusting his entry speed. And that vid wasn't the best example of driving a Porsche, i agree. He was driving rough and oversteered to much.

Trail braking in a hardcore 911, let alone just lifting off is certain spin situation....

to me, it looks like the guy is over throttling on exits for power oversteer

[04RCSTI]

well open your eyes... you can see that he is clearly oversteering in at least 3 cases, and no i'm not going to tell you where just take a look at the vid again...

Relax buddy, completely unnecessary response... I didn't ask for your help either. Man, this place is getting really unfriendly.:thumbdown:

I did look at the video again, guy does oversteer too much. Could've gone faster, perhaps this means that in the hands of a less skilled driver the GT-R is faster, but in the hands of a good driver the GT3 is faster?

And you shouldn't compare the GT-R to the RS, that just doesn't make any sense. If you're going to make the claim that you are comparing apples to apples then they should have left it at the Turbo. TT 6 AWD.

In the end, theres no doubt in my mind that the GT3 is a much better driver's car.

[tforth]

Yeah, I would be surprised if there is a full second between them on this kind of track. Chris Harris of Autocar said that there was a 0.3s difference (different track though)...

[silentm]

Relax buddy, completely unnecessary response... I didn't ask for your help either. Man, this place is getting really unfriendly.:thumbdown: sorry man, i didn't mean to sound offensive:-( the vid just pissed me off that's all, i hope you can accept the appology.

I did look at the video again, guy does oversteer too much. Could've gone faster, perhaps this means that in the hands of a less skilled driver the GT-R is faster, but in the hands of a good driver the GT3 is faster?

maybe so, but i just don't understand how you could feel good about just posing when everybody knows you're actually not that good driving a car? well i know that i wouldn't buy a fast car that would make me look good, maybe some people have the need for that :?::thumbdown:

[turpija]

you say the two car's shouldn't be compared.... then what should they be compared against? the 911 Turbo?

yes I guess a Turbo vs GT-R would be good comparison but lack of DSG in Porsche would help GT-R to close the gap (or stretch it) on every gear shift. btw how old is Porsche Turbo?(997)

[fordgt84]

^it's been around since 2006, relatively new

[HeilSvenska]

yes I guess a Turbo vs GT-R would be good comparison but lack of DSG in Porsche would help GT-R to close the gap (or stretch it) on every gear shift. btw how old is Porsche Turbo?(997)
A couple of years now. Porsche's working on its Doppelkupplungsgetriebe, so we can expect to see it when the refreshed Coxster and 997 come out. I can see the engineers in Stuttgart just sweating over squeezing out extra speed out of the Turbo now. Maybe. Maybe not.

[turpija]

cool
So I guess we have to wait for Germans to put DSG in Turbo, I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place:?:

[HeilSvenska]

cool
So I guess we have to wait for Germans to put DSG in Turbo, I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place:?:
It usually takes time for anyone to develop anything. You know that. I supposed they could've just bought the gearbox from someone, but that'd be un-Porsche like, wouldn't it? Like the 924? ;-)

[turpija]

yea I know but VW had 7 speed DSG in Veyron that can handle 1250Nm and Porsche bought 51% of VW, soo.....:mrgreen:

[toffytofik]

They actually planned to go with DSG in TT back in 2006, but failed to do so.

Porsche had hoped to complete work on its sequential manual gearbox in time for this summer’s introduction of the 997-based 911 Turbo, but that car initially arrives with a Tiptronic automatic or a six-speed manual.
Patent documents filed by Porsche in Germany indicate the company is preparing a seven-speed double-clutch gearbox for use in everything from the Boxster to the 911 to the Carrera GT-based mid-engined GT1 race car. Porsche had hoped to complete work on its sequential manual gearbox in time for this summer’s introduction of the 997-based 911 Turbo, but that car initially arrives with a Tiptronic automatic or a six-speed manual. No word on when Porsche plans to introduce the new transmission.
Sooner or later, they'll bring it! ;-)

[tforth]

They actually planned to go with DSG in TT back in 2006, but failed to do so.


Sooner or later, they'll bring it! ;-)

To the best of my knowledge, Porsche (with Sachs) had the first application of a double clutch manual transmission in their 956/962 sports prototype race cars. They called it PDK, which should stand for Porsche Doppel Kuplung (as opposed to Double Klutch as indicated in the article).

See:http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission3.htm

The first time I had heard them mention it again was in relation to a Boxster RS model, shortly after they had launched the original Boxster S, which clearly never happened. They have been caught sleeping on this one!