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philip
10-23-2007, 10:08 AM
The California Carrera GT track day fatal crash settles out of court for 4.5 million.

At the SCM website they have a photo which shows the concrete barriers on the straight a way were bumped out to provides space for the childrens play area. The car hit this area head on. A very bad idea.

From Sports Car Market

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/content/carrera

"Carrera GT Crash Settled at $4.5m

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4254/carreragtdl1.jpg

130 mph point of impact, play structure in background

Last summer, "Legal Files" reported about a lawsuit resulting from the fatal crash of a Porsche Carrera GT at a club track day at the California Speedway (June 2006, p. 30). The lawsuit was recently settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver, 41% from the track owners and the event organizers, 8% from Porsche, and 2% from the driver of the Ferrari that was claimed to have triggered the crash.

"Legal Files" received numerous comments from SCM readers, all of which were critical of the lawsuit, plaintiff, and attorney. No doubt, many readers may have the same reaction to the settlement. But let’s take a closer look at the facts.

To refresh our memory, Tracy Rudl filed the lawsuit alleging the wrongful death of her husband, Corey Rudl, who was a passenger in the CGT owned and driven by Ben Keaton at the Ferrari Owners Club track day. Rudl was represented by attorney Craig McClellan, a former racer and a successful plaintiffs’ attorney from San Diego. As the CGT was traveling at about 130 mph on the straightaway, a Ferrari entered the track at a relatively slow speed. Keaton swerved to avoid it and the Porsche skidded into a concrete barrier wall, killing both men. The wall had been placed closer to the track than its original position, in order to enlarge the area behind it for use as a children’s play area during an earlier NASCAR race.

Discovery creates clearer picture

Extensive investigation, interviewing of witnesses, and other forms of legal discovery brought out more facts. Here is the bigger picture, according to McClellan.

The Track. The track suffered from two major design defects—the pit-out (exit onto the track) design and the concrete wall along the straightaway that was moved to accommodate the NASCAR race. The problem with the pit-out design was that it brought the drivers onto the track in the middle of the straightaway and the pit-out driver’s view of the straightaway was completely blocked by a guardrail, so the driver had to rely entirely on the flagger when entering.

The aerial view of the track shows how the concrete wall that normally ran parallel to the track was moved to enlarge the area behind it. A second photo shows the Carrera GT crashed in the worst possible place—right where the wall protruded. It looks as the CGT would normally have hit the wall and bounced back toward the track. Whatever happened then would have been better than a 130-mile near head-on crash.

The Organizers. The Ferrari Owners Club requires that all cars pass a technical inspection by an approved repair facility. At a previous event, the FOC President and organizer had been warned by one of their vehicle certifiers that he believed that something was wrong with the handling of Keaton’s car and it should not be allowed to run. They let it into that event anyway, and it spun out three to four times—one time the event organizer was even on board and became nauseous. But he didn’t tell anyone about the warnings and did not exclude Keaton from that event. (As you will see below, it appears the concerns the mechanic had were related to the oversteer inherent in the design of the car, not to any particular mechanical defect.)

Keaton did not have the CGT inspected before this event, but was allowed to sign his own tech inspection form stating that the car was fine. Investigation revealed the FOC had never denied a participant access to a track day on account of a failure to pass tech.

The organizers also failed to enforce the track safety rule about cars entering the track. Pit-out was in the middle of the straightaway, with entry on the left side. But cars on the straightaway tended to stay to the left to set up for the right-hander at the end. To avoid collisions, cars entering the track were required to move to the right side as soon as possible. However, at this event, cars were entering the track and staying on the left side.

The Driver. Keaton was warned about the handling problems with the CGT, ignored his mechanic’s advice, and invited Rudl for a ride without mentioning the problems. And, when the Ferrari came onto the track slowly, he overreacted and spun.

The Ferrari Driver. The Ferrari driver and the flagger blamed each other for what happened, but it was concluded that the Ferrari entered the track too slowly, forcing Keaton to evade him.

Porsche. The sole claim against Porsche was that the CGT was defective because it was designed without electronic stability control, which Porsche calls PSM. McClellan deposed two German engineers on the subject, and their answers were inconsistent. One testified that Porsche did not think that its PSM system would work on the CGT because the car’s frame structure and suspension mountings would create strong vibrations that would interfere with its operation. The other engineer testified that PSM was not offered because the customers didn’t want it.

McClellan suspects it was a marketing decision, as the CGT was marketed as a "race car for the streets," and race cars don’t have electronic stability control. He notes that during its development, the CGT had exhibited a tendency to oversteer during high lateral acceleration. Porsche made some adjustments, but did not fully correct the problem, which explained why the mechanic who drove Keaton’s car reported “handling problems.” PSM would have corrected the “tail happy” oversteer response to Keaton’s steering input to avoid the Ferrari.



What about the releases?

One of the primary matters addressed in the settlement negotiations was the release signed by Rudl. As all of us who have participated in a track day know, the release contained language that waived any claims against the organizers and participants, with Rudl assuming full risk of injury or death. Many SCM readers pointed out that the release should end the matter.

While the settlement was being negotiated, the California Supreme Court was considering a broadly similar case. The Court of Appeal had ruled that releases were effective as to negligence claims, but not as to claims of gross negligence. There was uncertainty about the outcome because this case was the first time this issue had been addressed by a California court. McClellan insisted that the Supreme Court would agree with the Court of Appeal, and that he could prove gross negligence against the various defendants. He also insisted that the release would not be effective against the driver, as Keaton had been warned about the car’s handling problems before the event and did not disclose them. Either way, the release had nothing to do with the claim against Porsche, as it was not a participant at the track day.

The Supreme Court’s opinion was issued shortly after the settlement and was what McClellan predicted. The case involved a release given by the parents of a developmentally disabled girl who participated in a City of Santa Barbara summer camp and drowned while swimming. With no prior California precedent, the Court looked to decisions from other states. Quite a number had addressed the issue, and the majority ruled that properly written releases would be effective against claims of ordinary negligence, but that public policy made them void as to claims of gross negligence. The Court noted that most of the handful of decisions that enforced releases in cases of gross negligence involved auto racing incidents, but also noted that several states had ruled that releases are ineffective against claims for ordinary negligence, even in auto racing situations.

Interestingly, the Court received amicus curiae briefs from a number of organizations, including NASCAR and the California Speedway Association, predicting the demise of spectator racing and numerous types of recreational activities if the Court adopted this rule. The Court brushed them off, pointing out that NASCAR holds three races each year in Virginia and New York, both of which have laws that bar releases even in cases of ordinary negligence.

Was anything accomplished?

A lot of money changed hands in this settlement, but did anything of lasting societal value get accomplished here? McClellan thinks a lot of good may have been accomplished. He points out that the California Speedway is now safer. The guardrail blocking the view from pit-out has been moved, and the track may move pit-out to the end of the straightaway. He is confident that the Ferrari Owners Club will institute better safety procedures at track days, and he is hopeful that Porsche and other manufacturers will never again build a supercar without electronic stability control. McClellan thinks that the manufacturers’ greatest exposure in this regard may not be crashes on racetracks, but what might happen on the street. Imagine a CGT driver who gets in over his head on a public road, the rear end comes around, and he spins into an oncoming car, killing its occupant. Faced with expert testimony that electronic stability control could have prevented the spin, what will the jury think?

McClellan points out that the typical SCM subscriber, a car enthusiast who holds fast cars and racetracks dear, will never make it onto this jury. The jurors will be more ordinary citizens. "Most people, especially those with children on the streets and highways, would fear a vehicle like the Carrera GT, with its tricky handling characteristics, 600-plus horsepower, and unskilled, unqualified drivers. When a 'race car for the streets' is sold to anyone with enough money, regardless of his ability to drive it, and it doesn’t even incorporate modern electronic safety devices that correct driver errors, then maybe the manufacturer should accept some responsibility for the foreseeable deaths that will result."

Tracy Rudl also believes that the lawsuit will benefit others. "My loving husband was an innocent passenger in an expensive sports car that inexplicably failed to incorporate a modern, life-saving safety feature. He was a passenger on a racetrack that was dangerously designed. While driving on racetracks always involves risks, the result of this case and the redesign of the track will help eliminate unnecessary risks and make the sport of high speed driving safer."

JOHN DRANEAS is an attorney and a car collector in Oregon. His comments are general in nature and are not intended to substitute for consultation with an attorney. "

RC45
10-23-2007, 10:37 AM
This is HUGELY bad news for the sports car world at large.

The waiver should have been the waiver - period.

The ultimate repercussion will be no more "drivers" cars, no more track days and finally no more race tracks.

This law suit did nothing expect make some lawyers and a greedy widow some money.

harryo2b
10-23-2007, 10:43 AM
Only in America can money soothe the souls of lost loved ones. :roll:

5vz-fe
10-23-2007, 10:58 AM
This is bullshit........I can live with the concrete barriers, but to blame Porsche and the Ferrari driver? Fuck them all.

How's "Race car for the street" do with anything? They are at a track for christ sake. "innocent passenger"?? If you want safe, go on the grand stand. Getting into the passenger seat means you trust the driver, you trust the car and willing to accept the concequence.

philip
10-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Here is the photo of the stupid barrier change, what were they thinking, and on the
big straight a way no less, and for a stupid NASCAR playground.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4209/headlinecarrerakk2.jpg

I also wonder if the extra weight of helmets on their necks, air bags and no hans device also played a part as the car looked pretty intact.

The Ferrari driver's insurance probably payed the max policy amount. But Porsche with the really deep pockets only esentially refunded about the cost of the car. They pretty much held firm, which is telling.

nthfinity
10-23-2007, 11:13 AM
"Tracy Rudl also believes that the lawsuit will benefit others. "My loving husband was an innocent passenger in an expensive sports car that inexplicably failed to incorporate a modern, life-saving safety feature. He was a passenger on a racetrack that was dangerously designed. While driving on racetracks always involves risks, the result of this case and the redesign of the track will help eliminate unnecessary risks and make the sport of high speed driving safer." "

2 years of litigation speak ingrained into the widows mind. I hope the money will somehow consul her. But, I strongly disagree with the outcome. If this holds president, then never again may enthusiasts get a ride in the professional's car, let alone another enthusiast for fear of litigation.

ug.

RC45
10-23-2007, 11:21 AM
If this holds president, then never again may enthusiasts get a ride in the professional's car, let alone another enthusiast for fear of litigation.

ug.

Exactly - the track day this Saturday already had the "new insurance rules" in place.

No passangers allowed. Period.

This looks to be the immidiate response of track day insurers.

And I will no longer be taking "buddies" out for rides on the track - it's no them I ma worried about, it is their scheming money grabbing wives that scare me. (not that I have any money to my name, but they would go after my insurance company and families home etc for sure)

The ulitmate gold diggers dream would be to have their "significant other" get a drive in a millionaire/billionaires car and that they crash and burn - the sky is the limit.

5vz-fe
10-23-2007, 11:29 AM
^lol

RC45
10-23-2007, 06:21 PM
But the lawsuit as an whole are ridiculous, but it seems its the way things works in America..... :roll:

That is the price of living by the rule of law. In the grand scheme of things I would rather live liek this than any other way.

novass
10-23-2007, 08:29 PM
Thats pretty shitty. One of the guys I used to work with was one of the eye witnesses. He saw the whole thing go down. Not a pretty sight.

Its a shame that this will put a damper on future track days in this country. I don't buy the fact that this widow's husband was an "innocent passenger," he knew what he was getting into. It's unfortunate, yes, but shit happens.

Caplax40
10-23-2007, 10:02 PM
In America, it's always someone else's fault.

RC45
10-23-2007, 10:08 PM
In America, it's always someone else's fault.

Except in this case. it was "settled" - wouldn't that mean it was "no-ones" fault yet the gold-digger still gets to walk with the cash? ;)

unwilling
10-23-2007, 10:18 PM
In America, it's always someone else's fault.

So true.

Isn't it true that there are more lawyers and attorneys in America than the rest of the world combined? At least it seems like it.

I agree. As a passenger, you know what you're getting into, anywhere. Street, track, doesn't matter.

philip
10-23-2007, 10:38 PM
In America, it's always someone else's fault.

In this case it was the driver's estate (his widow) who payed the most. The passenger was n't driving. His only mistake was getting in when the ride was offered. Lambo wasn't sued. That is reason he was not driving as his new car overheated.

I won't ride with a stranger ever again, the first time I did, the driver lifted his foot in a hard fast corner. I lived, unfortunately this guy did not.

acmarttin
10-24-2007, 12:30 AM
He also insisted that the release would not be effective against the driver, as Keaton had been warned about the car’s handling problems before the event and did not disclose them. Either way, the release had nothing to do with the claim against Porsche, as it was not a participant at the track day.

The Supreme Court’s opinion was issued shortly after the settlement and was what McClellan predicted. The case involved a release given by the parents of a developmentally disabled girl who participated in a City of Santa Barbara summer camp and drowned while swimming. With no prior California precedent, the Court looked to decisions from other states. Quite a number had addressed the issue, and the majority ruled that properly written releases would be effective against claims of ordinary negligence, but that public policy made them void as to claims of gross negligence. The Court noted that most of the handful of decisions that enforced releases in cases of gross negligence involved auto racing incidents, but also noted that several states had ruled that releases are ineffective against claims for ordinary negligence, even in auto racing situations.

Ok so.. The only time I've ever signed a release is when I took a helicoptor tour of the Grand Canyon. When I signed it I didn't really give a flying f*ck about what the bylaws were - all I knew I was agreeing that what I was doing was potentially dangerous and if I died I knew it was a possibility when I got on the chopper.

So if that chopper had gone down could my Mother have sued the helicopter tour company for letting a pilot fly the helicopter after being informed that previous tours have crashed in the past? Or for the pilot not sharing the Bell JetRanger's safety record before lifting us up in the air? (She wouldn't - she's a cool lady :D )

If that's the case then this is getting out of hand. If that guy was a car lover then I know exactly what he was thinking when he climbed into that car and when he signed that release. If I had an opportunity to ride in a friend's CGT, I would have climbed in too.

What a waste of money :(

79TA
10-24-2007, 01:14 AM
Grrr, I hope this doesn't become another case of one mishap ruining the fun for everyone else.

RC45
10-24-2007, 01:21 AM
Had this Keaton guy been a working stiff and had he wrecked his WRX STi killing a passanger you would have heard nothing about this 2 weeks after the accident.

But because their were deep pockets to raid, a gold digger saw an oppotunity to steal money with the aid of a shrewed lawyer.

Sadly the correctly fucntioning legal system is opne to abuse by the unscrupulous.

skituner
10-24-2007, 01:36 AM
i love how there is no such thing as personal responsibility left in this country, its always about placing the blame on someone else

79TA
10-24-2007, 02:09 AM
i love how there is no such thing as personal responsibility left in this country, its always about placing the blame on someone else

That's what makes the democratic party so popular.

novass
10-24-2007, 05:37 AM
Had this Keaton guy been a working stiff and had he wrecked his WRX STi killing a passanger you would have heard nothing about this 2 weeks after the accident.

No, you would probably hear about it, it would just be different. It would become a news story highlighting the "dangers of import tuning, street racing, blah, blah, blah, and how they someone should put a stop to it all." It seems like every week or so there is a new "hot" topic that the media feel people should concern themselves with.

StanAE86
10-25-2007, 12:10 AM
As an attorney, I say this is unfortunate. Now, all lawsuits involving a waiver will simply allege "gross negligence" by the defendant to get around the waiver. This perpetuates the "liability, not accountability" nature of the US. As a participant in a track-day event, every person knows that you are assuming the risks of mechanical failure, inexperienced drivers, etc. A waiver and release should be just that.

nthfinity
10-25-2007, 12:13 AM
As an attorney, I say this is unfortunate. Now, all lawsuits involving a waiver will simply allege "gross negligence" by the defendant to get around the waiver. This perpetuates the "liability, not accountability" nature of the US. As a participant in a track-day event, every person knows that you are assuming the risks of mechanical failure, inexperienced drivers, etc. A waiver and release should be just that.

would you say, that there is some hope that this settled out of court?

Mattk
10-25-2007, 12:30 AM
In my opinion, this case should have been like actions for tort in other sports cases. Whilst those are generally assault cases, the general principle of 'what goes on the field stays on the field' should remain. He signed a waiver, he went along with his friend, and the friend crashed. Oops. But, waivers generally don't carry much weight in negligence cases, and I fail to understand why.

StanAE86
10-25-2007, 12:52 AM
would you say, that there is some hope that this settled out of court?

Not in California (arguably the most litigious State in the Union) as well as several other States. It seems that the trend is that waivers work for negligence, but not gross negligence. This makes sense in a situation like the drowning example, where the victim is a child without the ability to consent and the consent is by a parent who arguably was not present and arguably did not have the opportunity to inspect the swim area.

A parent signs a release acknowledging that drownings may occur, but that doesn't mean they're assuming the risk that the counselors, whose job it is to supervise the children, will not be doing their job. Fine. In the track event incident, I see a difference because the person that signed the waiver is the person that participated and was able to see the condition of the track, had the opportunity to ask the driver about his abilities, and was able to see the caliber of the other drivers. He assumed the risk, knowingly.

It seems that a lot of the "blame" is on the handling of the car and the fact that a mechanic said it was unsafe. This, however, was an opinion by a mechanic unfamiliar with the car and the knife-edge design of the car. I don't think any supercar should be without stability control. At least give the driver the option of having it on or off. I do, however, believe that someone buying a CGT assumes responsibility for everything that results from his driving of the car. My feeling is that if the car were any other car, the same incident likely would have happened in much the same manner.

If the driver overreacted as they all say, he would have upset the balance on any car going at that speed or close to it and the car would have gone out of control onto the dirt where you have nothing you can do but sit tight.

I think this was a very unfortunate incident with mistakes by several. I'm willing to bet if it went to trial, the Plaintiff would have won. The US trial system is interesting. A trial before these people's "peers" would have been car nuts and track rats...yet the attorney clearly knew those would be the people to keep off the jury. The people on the jury would be people that drive Buicks and Oldsmobiles that hate sports cars, racing and people that like those things.

philip
10-25-2007, 02:17 PM
Everywhere you go there are releases. Parking lots, Disneyland, Rental Car contracts, etc, etc. You cannot escape your liability just by having people sign something or the fact its printed on the back of the ticket.

That playground wall had no business being there. If it was a natural or historic feature of the course al la Laguna Seca, Mason Blanche, the entire ring, etc. that would be different.

I'm still concerned helmets with air bags without a hans device should be a concern to those of us who do this.

I doubt passengers will ever be permitted again at these events. I also suspect the pretty standard $250 fee is heading up too.

RC45
10-25-2007, 03:04 PM
Everywhere you go there are releases. Parking lots, Disneyland, Rental Car contracts, etc, etc. You cannot escape your liability just by having people sign something or the fact its printed on the back of the ticket.


Why not?

At which point do yousimply "live life and take the risk"?

Never?

Always?

What ever happened to "shit happens"?

What if the next gold digger sues F1 because their husband died in a fiery crash and wins 40 trillion dollars, effectively shutting down all forms of motorsport for ever?

Where do we draw the line?

obdr
10-25-2007, 04:41 PM
uhhh, I was under the impression that when you do a track day you assume all risks involed. (other then some sort of gross negligence or something)

So what if they moved the concrete barrier to accomodate a childrens play area. That is the right of the owners of the track itself anyway and, besides, the run off areas have to end somewhere. Judging from the pictures, there was still a reasonalbe amount of runoff even after they moved it. Of course a car going off suddenly at 150 mph is still going to hit the barrier. Sheesh. What do people expect??? Just look at the Nurburgring. Is every driver that hits the armco barriers there now going to sue because they are too close?!?! B.S.


Moving Armco barriers to accomodate ANY changes whatsoever is a reasonable thing to do even if they increase risk to drivers to some degree. Drivers should be the ones taking this into account before they decide to drive on that track. Its up to THEM to make an assessment of the risks before lapping the track. If they decide to take the risk then they should assume the liability for the risks they take.

The very idea that you can drive around a track in a Carrera GT, wreck the thing at high speed into a concrete barrier after somebody cuts you off, and then have your estate sue everybody involved because you died in the accident, is just IDIOCY.

One wonders what led Ferrari to pay out. Maybe the driver of the Ferrari claimed he couldnt see the Porsche b/c of a blind spot in the car so Ferrari had to pay for that....geez. Who knows. The whole thing just STINKS like B.S. to me.

So what if the Ferrari driver cut him off. That sort of thing happens all the freakin time on a track. Its a racing environment full of non street legal cars and such where "aggression" is acceptable and even encouraged.

People get hurt/killed at trackdays fairly often. Its a risk you assume when you do a track day. Taking a supercar, capable of 200mph+ to a track and then driving it to the limit is inherently very dangerous.

I feel sorry for the guy. I really do. But suing Porsche, Ferrari, the other driver, and the track is NOT the appropriate response.

What next......are people gonna sue the city when they break thier pinky toe ater they walk into a curb they didnt see just because the curb was 2 inches high and they think it should have been 1.9 inches high??? Give me a freakin break.

People need to assume responsibility for the risks they take and stop blaming everyone else around them. Sadly, whenever somebody dies, American society seems hellbent on blaming some living person just to get the feeling of justice even if that living person isnt really to blame at all.

RC45
10-25-2007, 06:42 PM
But the lawsuit as an whole are ridiculous, but it seems its the way things works in America..... :roll:

That is the price of living by the rule of law. In the grand scheme of things I would rather live liek this than any other way.


No its not living by the law, its exploiting the law for personal gain by gold diggers as there have been so many fucked up lawsuits wich have payed out big alot of people see the possibility to cash in on misfortune whos nobodies fault because the system opens for this kind of stuff...

I live in a country wich also one live by the law, but there would never be such a lawsuit here, and if someone tried to do something like this it would be shot down in court for what it was, a golddigger trying to cash in.....

It is living by the rule of law... while this is a small and frustrating exploitation of the system, the very same court system is what prevents me from suffering the rest of the injustices we hear everyone complaining about in other countries ;)

obdr
10-25-2007, 07:20 PM
In the grand scheme of things the system we live in is, at best, imperfect and needs constant revision and updates to cope with a rapidly changing world.

Additionally, while I would prefer to live under the American system there is still much we have to learn from other countries. A perfect example would be universal healthcare. The healthcare system we have in America today has become one of making money off the injured rather then helping them. Its rampant with abuse. One can find hundreds, thousands even, of cases where the sick or injured in America are wrongfully denied access to care and even die as a result. The healthcare system is VERY clearly broken and we have insurance companies to blame for that.

Ask anyone who has ever worked for insurance companies claims departments handling healthcare and they will tell you that they only got promoted by denying as much care as possible to peope in depserate need and wether or not they had a legitimate claim actually had nothing to do with it. In fact, many former claims handlers actually testified that it was company strategy to send out denial letters even if patients were covered under policy in the hopes they would just give up and die without knowing they actually deserved care. That is just plain sick and immoral and it needs to be changed, NOW.

nthfinity
10-25-2007, 07:54 PM
I guess that is why many people in single-payer countries come to the US for their health care, isn't it?

obdr
10-26-2007, 07:14 PM
Uhh, actually many Americans are moving to places like Canada, the UK, and France to get better healthcare!!!!

Saying we have a better healthcare system then Iran is NOT an accomplishment. We should have the best healthcare system in the world. Instead the World Health Organization ranks the United States 37th!!!!

Countries that are ahead of us in terms of overall access to quality healthcare include such behemoths as Andorra, Malta, Portugal, Iceland, Saudi Arabia and Chile.

In fact, why dont I just give you the list:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia


At least we beat Slovenia and, apprently, we are WAY ahead of Somalia which has been in a constant state of civil war for decades. Whew.

So you see, our health care system is not anywhere near what it should be and we have insurance companies to thank for that. Private health care doesnt work. If it did than America would be at #1 considering the resources we have to throw at the problem. Instead, we are at 37 which is nothing short of a disgrace and a shame. PERIOD.

harryo2b
10-27-2007, 04:45 AM
Fuck reading this thread again pisses me off.!!!@#$@$#% This ho needs to get bagged.

Mattk
10-28-2007, 06:45 PM
You cannot escape your liability just by having people sign something or the fact its printed on the back of the ticket.
Yes you can. A signature validates contractual terms. Even when no signature is involved, like a ticket at a parking station, if the terms are clearly display and there to be understood, parking at the station will immediately indicate acceptance.

I do, however, believe that someone buying a CGT assumes responsibility for everything that results from his driving of the car.
So are you saying that the passenger/plaintiff should have stuck to suing only the driver because the driver crashed, and let the driver argue contributory negligence and novus actus interveniens? I would have thought that more logical...