American and European....two different ways??

[ported_head]

i just love american muscle cars..i really do.... but why do americans build cars that are frankly well just any good for the straight line. europeans on the other hand make cars that are powerful.. go fast in the straight line and around corners and i believe that's where all the excitement is. european cars are also very beautiful, while the americans somehow just keep harking back to their muscle car era..which did produce some very good looking cars...but where is the creativity. also european cars are very technologically advanced..while some american cars till sometime back were still using pushrod engines.

now some of you will mention the viper...which is a very fine car..and it corners very well too...and i absolutely love it..so no doubts there. but the vette..i dont think so..i remember reading an article about alistair mcrae..where he was fond of the vette till he drove one that is.

just looking for people's opinions...dont want it to be a flame thread.

[graywolf624]

"but why do americans build cars that are frankly well just any good for the straight line. "

What cars are you talking about that only go well in a straightline.

The corvette would run circles around most cars and anything in its price range. This depends on the model of corvette but they have a higher skid pad and slalom then anything in that price range. Remember mcrae runs awd off road cars so hes also use to different setups.
The camaro would be competitive in the corners.
The GTO would be competitive.
The ford focus svt and dodge srt4 would handle many of the fwd european cars.

[Nemisis8u]

.....european cars are also very beautiful....

have you seen the 5 series, hardly a beautiful car

as far as the "handling" is concerned are you comparing ferraris to mustangs? Please bring up two cars that are in the same category and then we will talk

[godspeed06]

dude, you basically opened up a flame thread. that post is so full of bullshit i don't know where to begin. you don't mention any specifics and then bash cars you haven't even named while praising others which you haven't named. pull your head out of your ass and attempt to make a decent thread. i know it is hard for some people and that it might take you a little longer than others, but that i guess is what makes the world so great. i mean it would be pretty boring if everyone was intelligent.

[RC45]

i just love american muscle cars..i really do.... but why do americans build cars that are frankly well just any good for the straight line. europeans on the other hand make cars that are powerful.. go fast in the straight line and around corners and i believe that's where all the excitement is. european cars are also very beautiful, while the americans somehow just keep harking back to their muscle car era..which did produce some very good looking cars...but where is the creativity. also european cars are very technologically advanced..while some american cars till sometime back were still using pushrod engines.

now some of you will mention the viper...which is a very fine car..and it corners very well too...and i absolutely love it..so no doubts there. but the vette..i dont think so..i remember reading an article about alistair mcrae..where he was fond of the vette till he drove one that is.

just looking for people's opinions...dont want it to be a flame thread.

Your knowledge of cars in general is about as lacking as your geo-political knowledge.

You mentioned wisdom in an earlier post - sometimes the wise thing to do is keep quiet, thereby leaving people guessing about your level of intelligence - instead of actually saying something and removing all doubt.

[aawil]

Cars like the camaro,charger,challenger and alot of others as well.The difference is roads in america tend to be straighter quite frankly than the curvy roads in europe where a good handling Is more essential in daily driving. The vette probably had the best blend of them all when the 63 up came out.Great power plus great handling.

[coloradosilver]

Guess what? I'll bet you can't find a european sports car for the same $40,000 that I paid for my corvette that can out-accelerate, or take it on a road course. :fist:

[SFDMALEX]

Shit..........this subject should be taboo, which ever way you put it, it always turns out in a flame war.



coloradosilver- I'm pretty sure an Exige will smoke a Z06 on a road course.

[godspeed06]

Cars like the camaro,charger,challenger and alot of others as well.


they don't even make these cars anymore. give me a fuckin break. everyone has this stereotype about muscle cars from the sixties or something. give it up. they don't make 4000 pound, 502 cubic inch engine, tanks of steel anymore. they just don't. you guys act like european cars are the fucking second coming of christ. leave it alone. some american cars are shitty and some european cars are shitty. quite this euro vs. american stuff.

[blah]

i just love american muscle cars..i really do.... but why do americans build cars that are frankly well just any good for the straight line. europeans on the other hand make cars that are powerful.. go fast in the straight line and around corners and i believe that's where all the excitement is. european cars are also very beautiful, while the americans somehow just keep harking back to their muscle car era..which did produce some very good looking cars...but where is the creativity. also european cars are very technologically advanced..while some american cars till sometime back were still using pushrod engines.

now some of you will mention the viper...which is a very fine car..and it corners very well too...and i absolutely love it..so no doubts there. but the vette..i dont think so..i remember reading an article about alistair mcrae..where he was fond of the vette till he drove one that is.

just looking for people's opinions...dont want it to be a flame thread.

Your knowledge of cars in general is about as lacking as your geo-political knowledge.

You mentioned wisdom in an earlier post - sometimes the wise thing to do is keep quiet, thereby leaving people guessing about your level of intelligence - instead of actually saying something and removing all doubt.

You are my hero.

[SFDMALEX]

Anyway, how the fuck can we compare the two?

1. America makes their cars based on the people in America, and their surroundings.

2. Europe makes their cars based on people in Europe and their surroundings.

Guess what???? People are different, and the environments that they live in are also different.

Have you been to America or Canada even? The roads here are as straight as an arrow, and all the corners are 90degrees.

Been to Europe?(In general) I know how the roads there are, and trust me they are completly different from American. They are twisty as hell, with loops and corners instead of straights.

Americans like to drink coffee while driving, Europeans cant drink coffe because they got to shift down gears because of that corner right ahead.

So you cant compare the regular cars of the two "contenents" since they are build for different people who live in totaly different circumstances.


Muscle cars are a whole culture in US. Just like Harley riders. Europe does not make anything like that, so there is nothing to compare here.

In Conclusion you cant compare the two. You can only compare sports cars and supercars since they have the same purpose everywere.

[RC45]

You are my hero.

Uhm - now that is a scary thought... LOL ;)

[ported_head]

oh RC..you kill me every time man...you should be my hero too.....intelligence is such a subjective term man...lighten up... and incase you do not happen know..my geo-political knowledge is just about apt too... or are you just used to people shutting up to whatever you had to say and make you their hero.

it could have been a better post .. and i could have given every american car for every european car..but i wanted to keep it short... and let those things be left to you guys..but i guess people around the world function in different ways..and i would have to remember that henceforth.

could jabba just lock this thread instead...because i really dont see it going anywhere...especially with people like RC drowning me with all the wisodm that he is so full off.... maybe RC you could come to Bihar in India..sit where Buddha did..and wait for your halo..and while your their you could work on your geo-political knowledge too.

[RC45]

oh RC..you kill me every time man...you should be my hero too.....intelligence is such a subjective term man...lighten up... and incase you do not happen know..my geo-political knowledge is just about apt too... or are you just used to people shutting up to whatever you had to say and make you their hero.

it could have been a better post .. and i could have given every american car for every european car..but i wanted to keep it short... and let those things be left to you guys..but i guess people around the world function in different ways..and i would have to remember that henceforth.

could jabba just lock this thread instead...because i really dont see it going anywhere...especially with people like RC drowning me with all the wisodm that he is so full off.... maybe RC you could come to Bihar in India..sit where Buddha did..and wait for your halo..and while your their you could work on your geo-political knowledge too.

...so I take it your family has money then - you after all seem to be educated...

You are now trying to back track from a comment/question you clearly wanted to make - or surely you wouldn't have made it:


but why do americans build cars that are frankly well just any good for the straight line. europeans on the other hand make cars that are powerful.. go fast in the straight line and around corners and i believe that's where all the excitement is.


How is this question not starting a flame war?

I doubt I am anyone's actual hero, at least I hope not - except for expressing what they are already thinking, which is "Why do so many people ask the same stupid question over and over again?"

And as too how people function in different parts of the world - I thought you were already worldy geo-politcally wise.

[RC45]

LOL, I knew where this thread was going when I saw it.

Apparently only one person missed this cue... ;) LOL


but I still think that a non sportcar from BMW or Audi got better handling than a non sportcar from the US.

This is what folks should say, if that's what they mean. And this is very true. I have owned 3 Lincoln Towncars since I arrived in the US.

There is no doubt, the Towncar was a land yacht, and handled and stopped like one - in other words not very well - but the luxury inside was on a par with the best Europe could offer - so I had a chance to be wrapped in BMW/Mercedes/Bentley luxury - for less than 1/3 of the price, by purchase a year old Towncar (Cadillac and Lincoln devalue faster than shit in summer)


Respect is given not taken remember that.
:wink:
...so you mean you can't carpet bomb someone into respecting you...??? ;) LOL

[zevolv]

Respect is given not taken remember that.
:wink:
...so you mean you can't carpet bomb someone into respecting you...??? ;) LOL

Damn right!

[graywolf624]

"there is a tax on foreign cars in the us, to protect the domestic cars in the competiton from Europe and Asia.
"

There is no tax on most foreign cars in the US anymore. They take a free trade standpoint coupled with the fact that most foreign cars are assembled in the US(thus would not be subject to tarriffs). Technically the us has the most free trade of any country and one could argue the taxes work the other way around.
That being said you mentioned the audi and bmw. What you must understand is that they cost more in america. This isnt because of tarrifs. It has alot to do with different emmission and crash requirements as well as transportation cost.

Then still more has to do with culture.
We can make small good handling cars though, and dont you forget it.

[RC45]

Respect is given not taken remember that.
:wink:
...so you mean you can't carpet bomb someone into respecting you...??? ;) LOL

Damn right!

I am off to campaign for the phrase "We respect you, really we do..." be painted on every piece of munition... THEN WE CARPET BOMB!!!!!

Yeehawwww!!

Grap your pardner by the hand, sign some deals and bribe em grand

Swing them round about your head - Let's carpet bomb 'em till they're dead...

Come-on Y'all!!!!

Yeeehawwwww.....

[graywolf624]

"Didnt know it was lifted, thx for the heads up."

Part of it was lifted. The other part was companies were smart enough to figure out how to get around paying it. Gotta love loopholes. It's very interesting to study how placing a company presence in the US(say encorporating bmw of america.) can get you out of paying tarrifs. The tarrifs shouldn't exist so I have no problem with it. Free trade is better for an economy when recipricated.

:)

[graywolf624]

"I know I live in tax hell my friend."

I'm sorry. It just keeps going that way world wide. The price of the shift towards social programs. (too political to comment either way other then the correlation).

[ported_head]

...so I take it your family has money then


that's your idea of success and all you could do is obsess about it in every thread...
get a life man.... you think it's a stupid question..don't comment on it...or are you just full of your own wisdom and have no where to share it.... running of your mouth every time in a forum...trying to be a smartass..guess that is what you do...look around for people who ask stupid questions..so that you can show off your wisdom...which i hope you didn't buy..because you are well off now...aren't you....and you worked yourself being that well off right?? who cares...at 36 you seriously should be rather doing something else....but that's just me man.

[RC45]

...so I take it your family has money then


that's your idea of success and all you could do is obsess about it in every thread...

Obviously hit a vein with you didn't it.
Your mommy and daddy buy your future for you?


get a life man....

I have a life, a wife, a kid, an income - but thanks for caring... we will laugh about it at the dinner table tomorrow night.


you think it's a stupid question..don't comment on it...

You invited comment...


or are you just full of your own wisdom and have no where to share it.... running of your mouth every time in a forum...trying to be a smartass..guess that is what you do...

I don't need to try - I am a smartass - but thanks for noticing... means a lot.. :roll:


look around for people who ask stupid questions..so that you can show off your wisdom...

The beauty of the Internet, is that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a fool in the head...


which i hope you didn't buy..because you are well off now...aren't you....and you worked yourself being that well off right?? who cares...

I know you don't - you probably haven't had to expend an iota of effort to get to where you are - hell I bet you are even going to be introduced to be married, in arrangement to some woman to further bolster your families position - hey - more power to you.


at 36 you seriously should be rather doing something else....but that's just me man.

What would you rather have me do?

No really - I really care what your opinions are... :roll:

[sickx]

"there is a tax on foreign cars in the us, to protect the domestic cars in the competiton from Europe and Asia.
"

There is no tax on most foreign cars in the US anymore. They take a free trade standpoint coupled with the fact that most foreign cars are assembled in the US(thus would not be subject to tarriffs). Technically the us has the most free trade of any country and one could argue the taxes work the other way around.
That being said you mentioned the audi and bmw. What you must understand is that they cost more in america. This isnt because of tarrifs. It has alot to do with different emmission and crash requirements as well as transportation cost.

Then still more has to do with culture.
We can make small good handling cars though, and dont you forget it.

Didnt know it was lifted, thx for the heads up. :wink:

you said that they cost more in america and if you say so I belive you, cuz thats what every fun american car do in Europe too, so the vette being cheap and got good handling for its price only goes for the US.

I will never forget that you yanks can make small good handling cars. SIR.... :D

The last import tax in the US for foreign vehicles was on full-size pickup trucks, to protect the domestic industry. Since that has lifted, witness the evidence: Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan mongo-truck. It's all fair game in the states now, boys.

And as for cars being expensive--our poor blokes in the UK dole out MUCH more cash for their cars than the Americans!

[zevolv]

The import Trucks wont overtake the domestic truck market.

[ericgt]

I know it's not completely on topic, but. I test drove a Oldsmobile and a WRX(224hp) both new. The Olds cornered better and felt faster.
The handling has alot to do with who is driving.
As for pushrods, it's a partly cost of production issue. But come to think of it the '70s Pinto had overhead cam.

Someone mentioned trucks. The demographic for fullsize trucks are mainly union guys. Nissian made a bad move.

[RC45]

I know it's not completely on topic, but. I test drove a Oldsmobile and a WRX(224hp) both new. The Olds cornered better and felt faster.


uhm - which Oldsmobile was this? You should take the name and model number to the WRC teams - obviously these guys missed this world-beating Olds when searching for WRC-worthy cars...

[nthfinity]

i almost purchased an 04 impreza WRX a number of months ago, impressed with its accelleration, and cornering. it wasnt the best handling car, or fastest car ive driven; but it was fun. as far as euro market cars, i had a Saab 9000t. its accelleration was best defined in 3rd gear as the torque curve didnt lay off, and its handling was predictable; unlike a chevy celebrity i had (never get one unless all you have is 100 us $, and it has 3/4 tank of gas)
I test drove a Oldsmobile and a WRX(224hp) both new. The Olds cornered better and felt faster.

ive driven the fastest olds out there, and let me assure you, it neither accellerates as much as a WRX, nor does it corner as well, which leads me to suspect you drove an autobox wrx?
anyway, as far as american vs euro vs japan..... i love cars in all 3 markets, however if i wanted to get the most per performance $$, ill take an american V8, or if i wanted a great rounded car to make faster (accellerating through corners as well) id go with various euro autos.
http://members.tripod.com/~juan_espero/engine.html

[ericgt]

to whoever asked: The 2003 Olds was the mid sized 180hp v6 2dr, the WRX was a stick with the Ti shift knob. The Olds was faster on the hiway ramps by a good 3 mph. In the dry, without drifting. The WRX was a econobox below 3000 rpms, yes the turbo kicked in, but not impressed. I was surprized too. I don't hate Asia cars, while except Honda but thats another story. I saw the WRX on Top Gear and whated to compare to a Mustang. The only reason I test drove Olds was because it at the same dealer, $5000 cheeper, and I was borded.
Those WRC car are highly modified.

[RC45]

to whoever asked: The 2003 Olds was the mid sized 180hp v6 2dr, the WRX was a stick with the Ti shift knob. The Olds was faster on the hiway ramps by a good 3 mph. In the dry, without drifting. The WRX was a econobox below 3000 rpms, yes the turbo kicked in, but not impressed. I was surprized too. I don't hate Asia cars, while except Honda but thats another story. I saw the WRX on Top Gear and whated to compare to a Mustang. The only reason I test drove Olds was because it at the same dealer, $5000 cheeper, and I was borded.
Those WRC car are highly modified.

It was I that asked - and I am far from an "Asian car lover" - but I know for a fact that that "mid-sized" V6 Olds is a shit box. It may "feel quicker" - but that is about it.

It personifies what our European friends say about American cars only being any good in a straightline.

Which model was it? The Alero? That's a Malibu/Grand Am for goodness sakes...


Give your Alero a sleek and sportier look with the Sport Package. This package is only available on the 2004 Alero GX model.* $150 Credit**

Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel and Shift Knob. The leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter knob add a touch of sophistication and comfort.

Rear Decklid Spoiler. Make you own statement with the rear decklid spoiler.

15" Aluminum Wheels. The aluminum wheels are an ideal accent to Alero's contoured body.


Yeah - thats it - that puts the Olds right in M3 CSL territory... ;)

[nthfinity]

thats for sure..... when i drove the WRX...... 3 separate times totalling about 55 minutes, i had 3 different experiences..... highway, 2 way winding roads, and a highway with some rally sport (well, i did a huge U-eee on gravel and gripped much more then i had anticipated launching me back down the highway at 80 before i knew) :) this is completely true that the subie needs to be reved higher then 2800 to get its power kicking, but being that its a turbo; it makes perfect sence. if you let it spool close to 6000 @(227hp u.s.) you will feel the 217 ft. lb of torque in a major way (at 4000revs peak)
the NA v6 would have a broader torque curve, but loosing in both total torque, as well as high end power.
the gearbox on the wrx is realatively close ratio, and as long as you keep the reving above 4000, and {power shift} you will most cirtainly be hitting 100+mph on a straight, and fairly level on-ramp whereas even the olds aroura with the 4.8 ? V8 will hit about 85, which isnt bad.

I know it's not completely on topic, but. I test drove a Oldsmobile and a WRX(224hp) both new. The Olds cornered better and felt faster.
The handling has alot to do with who is driving.

as far as cornering, i couldn't agree more as its importance. but the best cornering olds i know of (once again the araura) pulls about .75 g laterally; whereas the wrx is .88 g
hope this helps

[brian]

I wish there was actually free trade... then I wouldn't have had to pay $800 duty to get my body kit delivered from Japan.

[nthfinity]

to bad for you. do you have then engine to back up the non-stock body?

[graywolf624]

I wish there was actually free trade... then I wouldn't have had to pay $800 duty to get my body kit delivered from Japan.


It's closer this way then that way. Japan china ect tarrif the daylights out of our stuff.
We do have some tarrifs. However, as I said. Constructing the car here gets you around that(not to mention most of the ones on whole cars have been repealed). Japan won't let american manufacturers buy land to do that there. That is why ford bought part of mazda in the first place.

[brian]

to bad for you. do you have then engine to back up the non-stock body?

it's a luxury car, not rice garbage... but to answer your question, I do have plenty going on to warrant the kit... though not that I feel it is absolutely necessary.

[nthfinity]

my own opinion consists of make the car work better first, then mabey later, make it look better.... but thats just me. many others disagree, many others agree... cars are like music in that respect.
japanese luxury... Infinity?
dont get me wrong, i love some of the jap autos, it loath some too... same goes for domestic, and european.
however, almost everything produced in Italy is awsome... except for lancia's less then the delta intagrale :wink:

[graywolf624]

however, almost everything produced in Italy is awsome... except for lancia's less then the delta intagrale

*cough* fiat *cough* reliability *cough*

[brian]

my own opinion consists of make the car work better first, then mabey later, make it look better.... but thats just me. many others disagree, many others agree... cars are like music in that respect.
japanese luxury... Infinity?


entry-level luxury :oops: it's posted in 'What Do You Drive Or Ride ?'

but you're absolutely right... first was suspension, then exhaust, then engine, then appearence if you wanted a timeline ;) I just don't think every car needs to be a race car like a lot of these kids seem to believe.
personally, I like to drive by nice and slow rather than race so everyone can see me. :D

[nthfinity]

very cool indeed, ill check it out. although, currently i cant say much since i cant afford an awful lot right now myself beyond rent/bills/car loan/school (no loans yet :fadein: )

*cough* fiat *cough* reliability *cough*

sorry greywolf. you are once again correct... tho i cant say i know much about fiat except the name.

[graywolf624]

sorry greywolf. you are once again correct... tho i cant say i know much about fiat except the name.

lol. Its not about being correct. In most cases I'm just trying to keep people honest. In this case I was making a joke. I'm definitly not some car genius.

[nthfinity]

no worries, taken as a joke :mrgreen:
and, you definately know more about cars then i.... im cirtainly here to learn more. nice that i dont have to pay for any credit hours here :P