AutoCar - 223mph in a Bugatti Veyron

[Svensson]

Chris Harris goes really fast on the German Autobahn at night.
I'm still no big fan of the car, but watch the acceleration near the end of the video from 120-280km/h. It is mindblowing!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=225818&CT=V

[gis]

christ that acceleration is......incredible,lol

[bultaco_metralla]

OMFG thats awesome!! OMG!! thats a car !!!

I love the incredible meter !!!!LOOOOL!!

btw, Dont you think the driver wheel is huge??

[yg60m]

How did I miss this video on their site !?! Thanks for the reminder man :wink:

[dylan99]

It goes from 120 to 280km/h in about 5 to 6 seconds that really is incredible!!!

And it just devours the road!!! What a unbelievable machine! I love it!!!

[Svensson]

How did I miss this video on their site !?! Thanks for the reminder man :wink:

Dunno... it was just posted earlier today :)

[silentm]

that acceleration is insane :shock: never seen anything like that

the A5, got it right at the footstep here, but i don't have a Veyron, oh damn :lol:

[tforth]

Yeah, but do you think this will be enough for the Veyron to get some respect around here..?

Chris must be on the 'payroll', right? Or, he is not qualified enough to judge this car, or any number of other excuses to avoid what must seem like many now, to be the obvious.

[Svensson]

Ok "tforth" ha ha.

I definately respect the Veyron for what it can do, but would never buy it (should I be fortunate enough to be in that positon). IMO my ultimate supercar has to have a naturally aspirated, high revving engine with individual throttle bodies, has to have a manual gearbox, RWD and should be as lightweight as possible. In other words, it should be as pure a driver's car as possible. The Veyron has none of that so I think it can never be "the ultimate supercar" that a lot of people claim it to be.

[Svensson]

The ultimate speed machine it is... the ultimate supercar, not so much :wink:

[martin100]

That speedo shot at the end is truly incredible! I knew it would be fast but this is insane!

Is there a way to save or download this vid?

[spanky]

Freaking awesome speed! Just amazing at the end... Watched it a few times in a row... Awesome 8) 8) 8) Speed machine Indeed

[RC45]

Uhm - its 1000bhp, 1 million bucks, 4wd and a super-computer controlled transmission, engine managemnt and electronic driver aids... what else did anyone expect?

Is it the fastest street car out there? No.

Is it the fastest accelerating street car out there? No.

Is it the fastest PRODUCTION car? Yes.. bt so what - for a million bucks, more computer control than a space craft and 1000bhp shouldn't it be? ;)

223mph is just not that amazing anymore.

:P

[gis]

^you really know how to take the excitement out of something dont you,lol :P

[Bernardo]

unbelivable.

[Z3uS]

The video sure is amazing but the Veyron is just terrible :x
I don't like this car at all.

[tforth]

You can make the 'style' argument, which is obviously a subjective statement, as it comes down to personal preference. However, as hard as some may try, you can't take away the engineering achievement that the Veyron represents.

[RC45]

^you really know how to take the excitement out of something dont you,lol :P

Well, at last count there were 40+ 1000bhp cars in Houston, so as far as being able to "roll on like a Veyron" - it's not that special around these parts... and it takes about $1 million less to do it ;)

I mean, here's one.. My friend G's car..

GZ06 DYNO VIDEO - YouTube

Cars this powerful are just that common these days... :P

[RC45]

You can make the 'style' argument, which is obviously a subjective statement, as it comes down to personal preference. However, as hard as some may try, you can't take away the engineering achievement that the Veyron represents.

At $1 million+ 4WD and 1000bhp, exactly how is that an "achievement"?

It's a given that with that type of R&D and money you would a bunch of idiots if you couldn't pull it off.

And as hard as some may try, you can't take away the truth that statement represents.

:)

[Svensson]

^you really know how to take the excitement out of something dont you,lol :P

Well, at last count there were 40+ 1000bhp cars in Houston, so as far as being able to "roll on like a Veyron" - it's not that special around these parts... and it takes about $1 million less to do it ;)

I mean, here's one.. My friend G's car..

GZ06 DYNO VIDEO - YouTube

Cars this powerful are just that common these days... :P

That's awesome, RC! Now I don't want to compare it to the Veyron except for the power, but I'm wondering... Exactly how does tuning a Z06 engine to this extent (1000bhp) effect the reliability/durability of the engine?

I mean, getting all that power out of the engine is one thing, but making it reliable for years and years is another. It may be WAY cheaper than the Veyron, but if it needs a complete rebuilt every year, the costs can obviously run into the figures. Also, what about the transmission this G-car is using? If it's stock, how does it handle all the extra power? Or is it modified?

I'm just interested to know... don't wanna start another "Veyron vs. whatever other car bashing-thread", because we've had enough of those :wink:

[RC45]

V8's have been tuned to these numbers for years... they are reliable... that's why they are built with robust parts.. ;)

I would go so far as to say that the aftermarket 1000+hp cars are actually stronger and more relaible than the "factory" cars .. ;)

[nthfinity]

That's awesome, RC! Now I don't want to compare it to the Veyron except for the power, but I'm wondering... Exactly how does tuning a Z06 engine to this extent (1000bhp) effect the reliability/durability of the engine?

I mean, getting all that power out of the engine is one thing, but making it reliable for years and years is another. It may be WAY cheaper than the Veyron, but if it needs a complete rebuilt every year, the costs can obviously run into the figures. Also, what about the transmission this G-car is using? If it's stock, how does it handle all the extra power? Or is it modified?

I'm just interested to know... don't wanna start another "Veyron vs. whatever other car bashing-thread", because we've had enough of those :wink:

LPE offer a full 36,000 mile warrenty for their 1000 hp twin turbo jobs they do. They veyron requires new plugs and wires every 3000 miles... among other additional "maintainence" during that same interval.

[Svensson]

Ok guys, thanks for the info! Now I need a LPE Corvette C6 Z06 630bhp, that's powerful enough for me... 8)

[wasaabi92]

That was just "incredible!"

The speed that thing reaches in seconds is amazing. Think teleportation.


:P

[martin100]

I always find it funny when the Americans team up to find faults on a car that their fat engineers would never have been able to create even if they had twice the budget the VW engineers had. And if they did it would have 30 inch rims and be the size of a football field :lol:

Sorry, but i´m starting to be fed up when the Americans whose best car ever is the latest Corvette Z06 with stone-age components can´t even admit that the Veyron is an immense technological achievement which it is without a doubt :x

[fordgt84]

i really did not like the veyron at first...but considering they lose money for every car they sell and the difficulty in getting it to reach 240 mph+ in a body thats heavy for a supercar and not that aerodynamic, you just have to give the veyron the thumbs up.

that accelration is just :shocked!: :faint: ... i'll be happy riding shot gun in that thing, it was just incredible...oops i said it too lol :D

[RC45]

Sorry, but i´m starting to be fed up when the Americans whose best car ever is the latest Corvette Z06 with stone-age components can´t even admit that the Veyron is an immense technological achievement which it is without a doubt :x

The veyron is NOT a technical achievment - simply because for the budget used, time taken to bring to market and final results... it is no that amazing.

Again - for $1 million+ and 1000bhp and 4WD and computer-control for EVERY system youwould expect it to be as fast as it is.

That is point you keep missing - had the Veyron sold for $400,000 and been a superb handling car like say - the Carrera GT then it would be an achievement.. as it stands now a 4000lb 1000bhp 4WD electronic controlled million dollar car is not that amazing in and of itself.

oh - and one more thing - why did you have to make it about "The Americans" - this fucking "us vs America" bull shit has to stop.

Some of us are not impressed by the car, based on the price, power, electronics and time to market... period.

No-one is doubting the performance of the Veyron - uhm - it is obvious to see what it can do.

What we are saying is that for $1 million, time tp market, 1000bhp and electronic aids it is what it shoul dbe - no surprises there..

And THAT has nothing to with "America vs" anyone. It is an opinion.

And if YOU are entitled to YOUR opinion.. then for fucks sake,,, so are we.

[5vz-fe]

i really did not like the veyron at first...but considering they lose money for every car they sell and the difficulty in getting it to reach 240 mph+ in a body thats heavy for a supercar and not that aerodynamic, you just have to give the veyron the thumbs up.

that accelration is just :shocked!: :faint: ... i'll be happy riding shot gun in that thing, it was just incredible...oops i said it too lol :D

I believe the reason they lose money is because they did not make enough to justify the cost for tooling.

[martin100]

I´m not saying "we against America"! I´ve read a lot, if not all of the threads about the Veyron here on JW, and i noticed two things:

1. Mostly Americans (including Canadians of course) complain about the car for being to heavy and not handling well enough (Though for an almost 2 ton car, it handles extraordinarily according to many reviews (EVO mag, Jeremy Clarkson Times Online review for example)). It was NEVER meant to be a Carrera GT in terms of handling, but a straight line rocket. You forget one thing, it is a GT car and not a supercar like the Carrera GT is! Achieving incredible speed in no time AND in best possible comfort is it´s purpose, not going around corners as fast as possible.

2. Many Europeans don´t like the Veyrons design, but almost ALL admit that it is an incredible technical achievement. Why can´t you? You say it´s all controlled by a lot of computers, which it surely is, but which modern Luxury or hypercar is not (except for some ultra hardcore, none comfort cars like the TVRs i.e.)?

You don´t have too many ways to design a car if it has to go 253mph. And i like it´s design on the exterior aswell as on the interior, always having in mind its purpose and what it can do.

The Veyron combines two things: Ultimate performance and total luxury. Bringing these two things together in such perfection as Volkswagen did is simply and will always be stunning! Some of the worlds best car engineers designed and finally built it for 6 years, and the finished product is so refined and so totally different then anything before it, that you can´t just compare it to some 1000bhp Vipers from your neighbourhood!
They may have quite astonishing accelleration figures, but show me one that has a unique 7 gear DSG gearbox that will take you take you to an never-before-known stable 253mph in no time and with such reliabilty!

All the new or much more refined stuff they had to invent just to build the best road car ever, no matter the cost, is IMO worth to pay the price of the Veyron, as high as it might be!

I say again, it´s NOT the case that i have something against Americans, but i´ve read so many threads in the past where mostly them always searched for faults on the car, not being able to see or admit what a unique and brilliant engineering marvel it is, that someday the point would come where i´m fed up which is right now :fist:

Please RC, correct me if i´m wrong!

[nthfinity]

The best way to judge this 10 years down the line when we compare the price of the bugatti and the tuned Z06 or the viper......

Then we will see wich one are the best investment, my money are on the Veyron....


but of course I`m probaly wrong as the tuned vettes and vipers of Houston will be the most valued car of the planet at that time.... :lol:

or...

you could flip it this way

in 10 years.... wait, 20 years.... no how about 30 years time, and every interval in between... when your Veyron takes a shit... how long will the downtime be?

And how long will a built small block's down time be?

[tforth]

What's this crap about transmissions being able to reliably deal with more than a doubling of power/torque?? I guess the more appropriate question id for how long? Have any of you taken any science courses at all, never mind mechanical engineering?

Car systems and components are designed for their intended application loads, with a safety factor, the magnitude of which is usually directly related to your understanding of the problem/design at hand. Even given that certain engineers may not be as knowledgeable as others, I'm pretty confident that the bean counters would not allow that much 'fat' in the designs. Don't kid yourself, extra robustness costs money. If you've worked with any of the 'big' three you'll know that they are the last to spend it!!

Lastly, as I have gone in to great detail in the past explaining, evo has stated irrequivacably that the Veyron is the fastest car in the 'twisties'. This is when they compared it to none other than an enzo (modified), CGT, Zonda S (modified)...

Mechanics specials are not comparable to an engineered car. If you have ever worked in the automotive industry and taken something (especially new technology) from concept to volume production, you would understand this.

Sorry, but it is most definitely the Veyron's time to shine ;->

[RC45]

I´m not saying "we against America"! I´ve read a lot, if not all of the threads about the Veyron here on JW, and i noticed two things:

1. Mostly Americans (including Canadians of course) complain about the car for being to heavy and not handling well enough (Though for an almost 2 ton car, it handles extraordinarily according to many reviews (EVO mag, Jeremy Clarkson Times Online review for example)). It was NEVER meant to be a Carrera GT in terms of handling, but a straight line rocket. You forget one thing, it is a GT car and not a supercar like the Carrera GT is! Achieving incredible speed in no time AND in best possible comfort is it´s purpose, not going around corners as fast as possible.

2. Many Europeans don´t like the Veyrons design, but almost ALL admit that it is an incredible technical achievement. Why can´t you? You say it´s all controlled by a lot of computers, which it surely is, but which modern Luxury or hypercar is not (except for some ultra hardcore, none comfort cars like the TVRs i.e.)?

You don´t have too many ways to design a car if it has to go 253mph. And i like it´s design on the exterior aswell as on the interior, always having in mind its purpose and what it can do.

The Veyron combines two things: Ultimate performance and total luxury. Bringing these two things together in such perfection as Volkswagen did is simply and will always be stunning! Some of the worlds best car engineers designed and finally built it for 6 years, and the finished product is so refined and so totally different then anything before it, that you can´t just compare it to some 1000bhp Vipers from your neighbourhood!
They may have quite astonishing accelleration figures, but show me one that has a unique 7 gear DSG gearbox that will take you take you to an never-before-known stable 253mph in no time and with such reliabilty!

All the new or much more refined stuff they had to invent just to build the best road car ever, no matter the cost, is IMO worth to pay the price of the Veyron, as high as it might be!

I say again, it´s NOT the case that i have something against Americans, but i´ve read so many threads in the past where mostly them always searched for faults on the car, not being able to see or admit what a unique and brilliant engineering marvel it is, that someday the point would come where i´m fed up which is right now :fist:

Please RC, correct me if i´m wrong!

You are wrong.

For $1 million+ 1000bhp 7 years to produce computer controlled 4wd and billions in R&D it is not that amazing at all.

Did youkno wyou void the warranty the moment you set the car to "253mph" mode?

[RC45]

What's this crap about transmissions being able to reliably deal with more than a doubling of power/torque?? I guess the more appropriate question id for how long? Have any of you taken any science courses at all, never mind mechanical engineering?

Have you ever bothered to consider that you do not hold exclusive rights to knowledge.

You might do well to remember this. Try for once realizing your audience might know as much or even more than you do.


Car systems and components are designed for their intended application loads, with a safety factor, the magnitude of which is usually directly related to your understanding of the problem/design at hand. Even given that certain engineers may not be as knowledgeable as others, I'm pretty confident that the bean counters would not allow that much 'fat' in the designs. Don't kid yourself, extra robustness costs money. If you've worked with any of the 'big' three you'll know that they are the last to spend it!!

WHo gives a rat fuck what you are spewing? If you want your Tremec T56 to with stand 1000bhp. you give it and $3500 to RPM-Transmission (just one of many engineering firms) and they retrun it to youstrong enough to withstand 1000bhp drag launches.

Again - please get a cle befor eyou try educate people.


Lastly, as I have gone in to great detail in the past explaining, evo has stated irrequivacably that the Veyron is the fastest car in the 'twisties'. This is when they compared it to none other than an enzo (modified), CGT, Zonda S (modified)...

Wsn't that "comaprison" based on "impressions" and not actual tests and numbers?


Mechanics specials are not comparable to an engineered car. If you have ever worked in the automotive industry and taken something (especially new technology) from concept to volume production, you would understand this.

As much as you claim to know all - perhaps you might want to take a trip to Decatur Indiana and tell the folks at LPE that what they build cannot be done and they must be liars and cheats because you say its not possible.


Sorry, but it is most definitely the Veyron's time to shine ;->
That is you ropinion.

And by Christ I will have an opposite view if I want.

But lest we forget, you and a bunch of other losers want to reserve JW for their own unique opinions and refuse to allow opposing view points.

:roll:

[nthfinity]

What's this crap about transmissions being able to reliably deal with more than a doubling of power/torque?? I guess the more appropriate question id for how long? Have any of you taken any science courses at all, never mind mechanical engineering?

Car systems and components are designed for their intended application loads, with a safety factor, the magnitude of which is usually directly related to your understanding of the problem/design at hand. Even given that certain engineers may not be as knowledgeable as others, I'm pretty confident that the bean counters would not allow that much 'fat' in the designs. Don't kid yourself, extra robustness costs money. If you've worked with any of the 'big' three you'll know that they are the last to spend it!!

Lastly, as I have gone in to great detail in the past explaining, evo has stated irrequivacably that the Veyron is the fastest car in the 'twisties'. This is when they compared it to none other than an enzo (modified), CGT, Zonda S (modified)...

Mechanics specials are not comparable to an engineered car. If you have ever worked in the automotive industry and taken something (especially new technology) from concept to volume production, you would understand this.

Sorry, but it is most definitely the Veyron's time to shine ;->

What I was getting at is this...

15 years on, there is only one group of people even willing to "advertise" (even though they dont) that will even touch the Bugatti EB110's... and Bugatti of today most definately wont.... what about the Bugatti of 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and 30 years from now? The small block is the stable of availability that the Veyron simply cannot even hope to think it had a chance at being similar.

If you've ever taken a business course, you'd know that such niche firms change hands like Larry King changes wives, and you'd be kidding yourself if you thought that when Niche firms change hands, that all corperate liabilitys do as well.

[gangajas]

Sorry, but you can compare the Veyron to some powerful tuned cars, you are worse than those ricers with their Integras, Supras and Skylines that think they have the better cars in the world.

:lol: :P

[martin100]

You are wrong.

For $1 million+ 1000bhp 7 years to produce computer controlled 4wd and billions in R&D it is not that amazing at all.

Did youkno wyou void the warranty the moment you set the car to "253mph" mode?

No i didn´t know that :shock: Where did you get that info from?

[eva-adam]

this is mindblowing!!! :shock:

[RC45]

Sorry, but you can compare the Veyron to some powerful tuned cars, you are worse than those ricers with their Integras, Supras and Skylines that think they have the better cars in the world.

:lol: :P

Where you born stupid?

No-one is COMPARING the Veyron to anything - some of us are simply saying it is not that impressive when you take the $1 million price tag, 7 years to develop, enormous R&D resources, 1000bhp, 4WD and banks of computer control into consideration.

Do you get that concept?

You want impressive?

Impressive is when a small tuning company can get a 6 cylinder Toyota engine to produce 1000bhp on pump gas - that's impressive.

Throwing cubic money at a 16 cylinder engine and barely making 1000bhp is no timpressive - it is expected.

You are wrong.

For $1 million+ 1000bhp 7 years to produce computer controlled 4wd and billions in R&D it is not that amazing at all.

Did youkno wyou void the warranty the moment you set the car to "253mph" mode?

No i didn´t know that :shock: Where did you get that info from?
Me? This was relayed to via a connected Bugatti source.

I have reason to believe they are reliable.

The Veyron is a very fast, accelerates like a rocket ship and is very composed under handling stresses.. but - but, when you consider the computer control and the 4WD and the 1000bhp it would be more amazing if it it didn't do all these things.

[nthfinity]

What will be impressive is if there was a Veyron that had style influences from the Bentley Speed 8, was about 1000 less lbs. had a longer wheel base, with functional aero to start with, and cued 1930's bently styles in subtly, and removed electronic aids.... even if top speed was sacrificed... 0X

What IS impressive even considering the number of 1000+ hp cars on the street in USA, and elsewhere, is that the Bugatti has virtually no discernable lag from any speed, and rpm... the Bugatti isn't a free reving machine shifting at a very American-like 6000 rpm roughly...

[gangajas]

Were you born stupid?



No, stop insulting everybody that doesn't think like you, please.

No-one is COMPARING the Veyron to anything - some of us are simply saying it is not that impressive when you take the $1 million price tag, 7 years to develop, enormous R&D resources, 1000bhp, 4WD and banks of computer control into consideration.

Do you get that concept?

I don't care about how they did it, I only care about the results and the results are impressive

You want impressive?

Impressive is when a small tuning company can get a 6 cylinder Toyota engine to produce 1000bhp on pump gas - that's impressive.



Now ask that small tuning company to build a car as fast and refined as the Veyron.

[Svensson]

Now ask that small tuning company to build a car as fast and refined as the Veyron.

I'll call them next monday... Can I have your Credit Card # ?

[martin100]

Yes, refinement is the important word here! This is what makes the big difference between the Veyron and other tuned 1000bhp cars.

But ok, i see RCs point that it isn´t that impressive considering the huge amount of money needed to make it become reality. That´s his opinion.

I however will always be stunned by the Veyron, seeing all the engineering it needed and all the effort put into it. I think the results are impressive and the combination of power and luxury is absolutely unique in the world of cars and will be for a long time to come if not forever.

[RC45]

Were you born stupid?



No, stop insulting everybody that doesn't think like you, please.

That was a question - not a direct insult.

And the moment YOU accept that my opinion is different from yours, then you can speak.

You demand I accept that you have a different opinion... yout YOU won't acept that I or others have an opinion different from yours.

That's the point.

So again I ask - were you born stupid or are you just refusing to accept that some people have OPINIONS different from yours?

BTW - are trying to show your solidarity and support for terorism with your signature pictures?


But ok, i see RCs point that it isn´t that impressive considering the huge amount of money needed to make it become reality. That´s his opinion.

This is all that has been said from the word go - but some people are so full of personal hatred and anger towards the other PERSON (such as some posters in this thread with opposite views to mine) they misdirect their anger hate for the person into their opinion as well.

There is no secret that certain responders to this thread actually have bought voodoo dolls in my effigy and often host chants and seances to try cast spells on me their hatred runs so deep :)

[martin100]

^ OK, i hope this discussion ends now once and for all (though i strongly doubt it. Just a matter of time until the next Veyron thread is posted :wink: )

[Svensson]

^ Ok, I'll see if I have more where that came from "martin100" :P

[RC45]

^ I am sure between the some of the JW members here we will be able to have a "first person" impression sooner than later ;)

[gangajas]

That was a question - not a direct insult.

And the moment YOU accept that my opinion is different from yours, then you can speak.

You demand I accept that you have a different opinion... yout YOU won't acept that I or others have an opinion different from yours.

That's the point.

So again I ask - were you born stupid or are you just refusing to accept that some people have OPINIONS different from yours?

You are the one who doesn't accept other people opinions, you are the one who have used the insult more than almost all the other JW members combined, I think you are the one who have the problem here.


BTW - are trying to show your solidarity and support for terorism with your signature pictures?


Obviously no. Have you seen "It's always sunny in Philadelphia"?

I hope you never call me terrorist supporter again.

[RC45]

That was a question - not a direct insult.

And the moment YOU accept that my opinion is different from yours, then you can speak.

You demand I accept that you have a different opinion... yout YOU won't acept that I or others have an opinion different from yours.

That's the point.

So again I ask - were you born stupid or are you just refusing to accept that some people have OPINIONS different from yours?

You are the one who doesn't accept other people opinions, you are the one who have used the insult more than almost all the other JW members combined, I think you are the one who have the problem here.

No - you have the problem.

I accept and allow youto have your opinion - I have never said you shouldn't - in fact I encourage you to have you own opinion.

I just choose to not agree with you.. but YOU can't accept that I post my opinion when it is different to yours - yet you expect me to just walk away after you post you opinion.

Screqw that - just as you are entitled to yours.. so am I mine.. accept it.



BTW - are trying to show your solidarity and support for terorism with your signature pictures?


Obviously no. Have you seen "It's always sunny in Philadelphia"?

I hope you never call me terrorist supporter again.
That image out of context does nothing except show your solidarity for terrorist.

We all know why you use that as a signature - and it's not because you love "It's always sunny in Philadelphia".

That is as absurd as me postign a swastika and saying "Have you never seen Hogans Heros.. :roll: :roll:

[gangajas]

No - you have the problem.

I accept and allow youto have your opinion - I have never said you shouldn't - in fact I encourage you to have you own opinion.

I just choose to not agree with you.. but YOU can't accept that I post my opinion when it is different to yours - yet you expect me to just walk away after you post you opinion.

Screqw that - just as you are entitled to yours.. so am I mine.. accept it.



You accept my opinion but you insult me when I write it. You're really funny man.

That image out of context does nothing except show your solidarity for terrorist.

We all know why you use that as a signature - and it's not because you "loved "It's always sunny in Philadelphia".

That is as absurd as me postign a swastika and saying "Have younever seen Hogans Heros.. :roll: :roll:

Watch this video and STFU:

YouTube

How many terrorists have you seen with a hammer? I thought you were more intelligent than that

By the way, when you say "We all know"....how many members think I'm a terrorist supporter? I would like to know their nicks.

[RC45]

You accept my opinion but you insult me when I write it. You're really funny man.

No - I never insulted you for writing anything - in fact I never insulted you, I merely helped you mor clearly understand why my opinion has just as much legitimacy as your's has.


That is as absurd as me postign a swastika and saying "Have younever seen Hogans Heros.. :roll: :roll:

Watch this video and STFU:

YouTube

You don't even know who or what Hogans Heroes is do you?

The point is a dishtowel head-dressed man out of context is as insane as a lone swastika being used for humour.

That's the point.


By the way, when you say "We all know"....how many members think I'm a terrorist supporter? I would like to know their nicks.
Ever person who sees that image at face value and out of context would not think first "Oh that was that funny episode of "Sunny in Philli" hahaha" - first they would look and go WTF - is that bloke trying to be funny or stupid using that sig? Then, they MIGHT recall the episode if they were obsessed with watching mediocre sitcoms. :)

I though the "new face of JW" was about not inciting inter group hostility?

This thread proves you are not yet ready to even face a car discussion with opposing opinions.

:roll:

BTW - I never disputed the incredible speed and acceleration of the Veyron - I have simply said I am not impressed after viewing the car in complete context. Does that mean I wouldn't buy one if I had $1.5 million to blow on a car? No.

This alone makes you so mad you have keep the thread going to oppose this view :)

[gangajas]

You accept my opinion but you insult me when I write it. You're really funny man.

No - I never insulted you for writing anything - in fact I never insulted you, I merely helped you mor clearly understand why my opinion has just as much legitimacy as your's has.


That is as absurd as me postign a swastika and saying "Have younever seen Hogans Heros.. :roll: :roll:

Watch this video and STFU:

YouTube

You don't even know who or what Hogans Heroes is do you?

The point is a dishtowel head-dressed man out of context is as insane as a lone swastika being used for humour.

That's the point.


By the way, when you say "We all know"....how many members think I'm a terrorist supporter? I would like to know their nicks.
Ever person who sees that image at face value and out of context would not think first "Oh that was that funny episode of "Sunny in Philli" hahaha" - first they would look and go WTF - is that bloke trying to be funny or stupid using that sig? Then, they MIGHT recall the episode if they were obsessed with watching mediocre sitcoms. :)

I though the "new face of JW" was about not inciting inter group hostility?

This thread proves you are not yet ready to even face a car discussion with opposing opinions.

:roll:

BTW - I never disputed the incredible speed and acceleration of the Veyron - I have simply said I am not impressed after viewing the car in complete context. Does that mean I wouldn't buy one if I had $1.5 million to blow on a car? No.

This alone makes you so mad you have keep the thread going to oppose this view :)

Ok, you are right. :roll:

Have a nice day.

[RC45]

Ok, you are right. :roll:

No I'm not.

Have a nice day.
I always do - thank you.

[tforth]

nthfinity wrote:

What IS impressive even considering the number of 1000+ hp cars on the street in USA, and elsewhere, is that the Bugatti has virtually no discernable lag from any speed, and rpm...


Actually, to the contrary, I have heard from several different sources, that the Veyron DOES suffer turbo lag, depending on the conditions (i.e. RPM, load, etc.)

Regarding all the heritage and styling matters, I don't really care. What impresses me is the level of engineering that has gone into this thing. The brakes use titanium pistons, and other technology from aerospace engineering, for example.

[tforth]

RC45 wrote:

As much as you claim to know all - perhaps you might want to take a trip to Decatur Indiana and tell the folks at LPE that what they build cannot be done and they must be liars and cheats because you say its not possible.


Oh yeah. Please tell me smarty pants, what exactly is LPE's DVP&R (Design Verification Plan and Report) for the transmissions upgrades? Tell me, where do they run their vehicle durability tests: Arizona, Norway? What do they consider an acceptable R/1000? Oh that's right, they probably don't make a 1000 of anything, right? Engineering isn't just fitting something under a hood, ad making it run for a little while.

It has to start at -40° to +50°C, it has to work with all the subcomponents at their min. and max tolerances, it has to work when is very humid, and very dry, it has to last in the dessert, and in hot salt baths, it has to go through waist high troughs of water and not make any noise afterwards, etc., etc. This small sampling of common requirements that OEs have for their vehicles, is one of the reasons why they have so many engineers and technicians employed.

It is way easier to make a car work under less extreme conditions PERIOD

[harryo2b]

The Porsche 959 was and still is a technological achievement. It still runs with the big boys of today and makes others look plain silly all after being 20+ years old! :lol:

What the fuck do you do with 1000+hp anyways? Not too useful on a track unless you call 1/4 Mile times racing and that goes for any car Veyron or Corvette. :mrgreen:

[RC45]

RC45 wrote:

As much as you claim to know all - perhaps you might want to take a trip to Decatur Indiana and tell the folks at LPE that what they build cannot be done and they must be liars and cheats because you say its not possible.


Oh yeah. Please tell me smarty pants, what exactly is LPE's DVP&R (Design Verification Plan and Report) for the transmissions upgrades? Tell me, where do they run their vehicle durability tests: Arizona, Norway? What do they consider an acceptable R/1000? Oh that's right, they probably don't make a 1000 of anything, right? Engineering isn't just fitting something under a hood, ad making it run for a little while.

It has to start at -40° to +50°C, it has to work with all the subcomponents at their min. and max tolerances, it has to work when is very humid, and very dry, it has to last in the dessert, and in hot salt baths, it has to go through waist high troughs of water and not make any noise afterwards, etc., etc. This small sampling of common requirements that OEs have for their vehicles, is one of the reasons why they have so many engineers and technicians employed.

It is way easier to make a car work under less extreme conditions PERIOD

WTF are you ranting on about?

LPE doesn't need to do shit.. and neither does GM - TREMEC does it for them.. I guess you have NEVER bothered to wonder out of your basement.. you do know that EVERY engineered component is for sale... right?

I fyouneed a transmission fo r your car - you can apporach a transmission builder and buy a ready engineered proven product.

Again - if youknow so fucking much why don't YOU take trip over to Indiana and tell LPE they are a bunch of cunts that can't build shit.

Let us know how that goes.

:roll:

[pitfield]

God, you are auch a tool.

[gis]

so much for a bitching free month,lol

[martin100]

Maby it´s time to close this thread now :roll:

[RC45]

God, you are auch a tool.

And you're auch a wanker.. your point?

so much for a bitching free month,lol

That knife cut's both ways.. ;)

Maby it´s time to close this thread now :roll:

Why? Because "some people" can't stand to view anything opposite to what they dream about every day?

BS45: will you ever just STFU??? seriously....everyone is irritated and fed up with your jealous, insecure, idiotic ranting.

Why don't you put some money where that mouth is and donate to support the site once in a while (although technicall speaking you did once if I am not mistaken) - maybe then you will be taken a little more seriously than just a nervous drunken, pill popping spoiled socialite.


might we suggest you act your age??
I simply follow your example... :)

[gis]

so much for a bitching free month,lol

That knife cut's both ways.. ;)


you are right.people just have to realise some like one thing others dont,everyone has valid points,when thinking about it yes everyone is right this car is amazing,it has the best of everything on it to run and the best of everything for comfort....but so it should for £1.000.000 :wink: ......the same as RC is right by saying it isnt the first car out there to run 1000hp.

Not everyone can afford £1.000.000,but a majority of people can afford to make a skyline,a supra,an RX7,a camaro,a mustang and a vette 1000hp,but obviously it wont be to the standards (mainly comfort wise) as what the Veyron does straight out.

I like the Veyron,and yes if i had £1.000.000 to spare id probably have one,but at the same time....what RC is tryin to say in his own unique way,you can run a 1000hp car for a lot less as its been done already for quite some time :wink: :D

[RC45]

^^ BTW, notice how the normal average for views in this sub-forum, is about 30 views.. and this thread has almost 1000....

Now, we could say it's because the Veyron draws lots of atention - or... we could say it's because not every thread is blessed with the typ eof quality content replies that this one is ;)

[Svensson]

^ But the most probable reason is that I started this thread... :P:wink:

[RC45]

^ But the most probable reason is that I started this thread... :P:wink:

That's also a good probability.. you are hot property these days ;)

[tforth]

RC45 wrote:
LPE doesn't need to do shit.. and neither does GM - TREMEC does it for them.. I guess you have NEVER bothered to wonder out of your basement.. you do know that EVERY engineered component is for sale... right?
[/quote]

Suppliers to OEs don't do anything is complete isolation of their customer. The customer issues the requirements is terms of performance, relia/durability, cost, timing, quality, etc.

You sound like you have never worked in the automotive industry. Things are actually much more complicated than you seem to understand.

Oh, btw did you see the latest (german) sport auto? The tested your fabled Z06, and it was slower (just) than the 997 GT3s around the NS. Horst von Saurma did a 7:49 (vs. 7:48 & 7:47 for the GT3 and RS). For reference, the M3 CSL did a 7:50...

[jorge]

the speedo take at the end is incredible :o

[RC45]

LPE doesn't need to do shit.. and neither does GM - TREMEC does it for them.. I guess you have NEVER bothered to wonder out of your basement.. you do know that EVERY engineered component is for sale... right?


Suppliers to OEs don't do anything is complete isolation of their customer. The customer issues the requirements is terms of performance, relia/durability, cost, timing, quality, etc.

Exactly.

And their are upgrade components, tested and verified and validated for TREMEC transmisison to withsatnd all sorts of power.

So again - why do youinsist on arguing for arguing sake, when it is PISS EASY and REAL SIMPLE to upgrade ANY T56-based TREMEC transmission to withstand 1000hp.

Please - explain why you just promoting lies and ill will?


You sound like you have never worked in the automotive industry. Things are actually much more complicated than you seem to understand.

And just because YOU have worked in the "auto industry" you are God?

According top YOU there is NO SUCH things as a 1000bhp enable transmission - yet you can BUY an ENGINEERED one OFF the SHELF.

So again - explain how YOU know MORE about products than the very compnay does abou tits own product?

Please do.


Oh, btw did you see the latest (german) sport auto? The tested your fabled Z06, and it was slower (just) than the 997 GT3s around the NS. Horst von Saurma did a 7:49 (vs. 7:48 & 7:47 for the GT3 and RS). For reference, the M3 CSL did a 7:50...
Your point? Or do you even have one?

But lets get back to this bit about YOU knowing more about engineered products than the manufacturers themsleves?

You make it sound like unless it comes from an actual auto company then the items must be piles of shit.

Please explain oh "auto industry engineering guru"? Please do.

Let us ALL know ho wYOU say ALL companies who supply after market engineered componets are fucking retard idiots who know NOTHING about NAYTHING compared to you.

Please learn us the goods of master. :roll: :roll:

Oh - while you are at it, don't forgte to call up GMPP and tell them their strengthened rear axles and diffs are complete and utter shit - because YOU say so.

According to YOU they are never tested or engineered or even worth knowing about.

SO again - TEACH us ALL about it. :roll:

[RC45]

Oh stop this worthless arguing already. Every post about Veyron should be locked for commenting.

No this is an important "coming to Jesus" for tforth.

He is claiming, publicly that he knows all about the auto industry, and that if an item is not build for or by an actual auto manufacturer then it is a piece of junk.

I want him to come clean instead of spreading false information to other readers and viewers of this forum.

The Veyron is what it is - and is built and engineered to do just that. he is no warguing way past the Veyron - and is claiming rubbish to be fact.

I am asking him to explain to all the readers how he claims that if an after market company builds an engineered improvement to their or another product how he is wrong, and that does ntop automatically make the product or enhanceent junk.

As an example.. TREMEC makes transmisison for many auto makers around the world.. and when produced for a specific model, they are built to meet that spec.. so the Dodge Viper has a TREMEC designed for 550bhp - but you can upgarde that transmission to withstand 1000bhp - he is claiming thi sis not possible because TREMEC neverbuilt the original to withstand thatmuch power.

He is refusing to admit that these parts are upgradable with manufacturer support.

When someone comes to forums claiming to be an "expert" then spreads lies and falsehoods, they need to come clean and be honest.

No ttry win arguments with lies.

That is the point.

Many people come to JW and spew "rubbish" like it is facts - and this is no good.

Let's keep it honest and correct - especially if as all you people claim JW is a car enthusiasts web forum.

If that is the case, let's keep the blowhards honest at least

[nthfinity]

nthfinity wrote:

What IS impressive even considering the number of 1000+ hp cars on the street in USA, and elsewhere, is that the Bugatti has virtually no discernable lag from any speed, and rpm...


Actually, to the contrary, I have heard from several different sources, that the Veyron DOES suffer turbo lag, depending on the conditions (i.e. RPM, load, etc.)

Regarding all the heritage and styling matters, I don't really care. What impresses me is the level of engineering that has gone into this thing. The brakes use titanium pistons, and other technology from aerospace engineering, for example.

When i rode shotgun in it with Bugatti's test driver last year, lag nearly nothing.... particularly when compared against ALL turbo cars I've ever been in.

Also, somebody who claims to work for the auto industry mentioned something about Tremic not being able to build a good enough Transmission.... and cannot possibly have R1000 goals because they don't make 1000 parts.....

Let us assume that in Reliabilty engineering, there aren't other meathods of having reliabilty goals and that what tforth has said is 100% proof positive. That would make the rest of JW's collective intellegence drop by 5%.... ouch

FMEA, Six Sigma, ISO 9000 manufacturing, lean manufacturing, and rampant testing in fact is done by small tuning shops like Lingenfelter Performance Engineering... perhaps not ISO 9000, but companies which they recieve componentry from does.

Throught extrememe testing no less.... from temperatures of 130 F (somehow I doubt they test in many sub- zero aplications.... who would drive a 1000 hp rwd car when its snowing?.... eh, maybe somebody does it)

Not to mention, engineers are employed full time to make sure thier "shit dont break".... all in a well managed means of maintaining brand loyalty. It's a cutthrought business.

Furthermore, much is known through various racing aplications, be it bonneville, or Le Mans... and this technology is directly taken into use on these rabid performance vehicles made by some small tuning company.

Additionally, much knowledge has been gained over years of testing products, from the specific geometry of a crankshaft which is polished, and balanced like nothing in ANY production vehicle, specifically so it can stand the tension of 600, 800, 1000, 1500 hp applications. These aren't your average garage tinkerers.

As if to nail the head in the coffin, GM hire LPE, and other small tuning companies to develop much future technology. I would tell you specifics, if Tom Cress asked me specifically not to.

You are familiar with FMEA? right? You are familar with computer models to simulate falure modes, and that they have been accurate means of simulation since the early 80's, right? You know that the Americans developed FMEA, right? (In fact, right in Walled Lake Michigan... for the aerospace industry)

But, i guess you are the only expert.

[tforth]

RC45 wrote:
When someone comes to forums claiming to be an "expert" then spreads lies and falsehoods, they need to come clean and be honest.
[/quote]

Actually, you're the one using the terms 'expert' and 'god' when referring to my statements. My intent is only to provide mostly objective feedback from a car enthusiast who has been working for a tier one supplier for 15 years. We design/develop/manufacture patented engine component/systems, as well some non engine automotive related products as well. We supply on a prototype/production/service basis to almost all OEs around the world.

Through this experience, as well as my avid interest in high performance, but well engineered cars, I have learned a few things that I like to share from time to time in this forum.

The simple point I'm trying to make here, is that Veyron is much more than skin deep. Unfortunately, that is all the average enthusiast is aware of - the bare numbers. There is an immense amount of engineering that has gone into this car which 99% of the average enthusiast is unaware of. One example from the VW Phaeton is that it can cruise at a derestricted 186 mph, in 40°C, while maintaining the cabin temperature at 20°C (or something like this). This was a requirement of Ferdinand Piech when he commissioned this vehicle, even though it was speed limited to 155 mph...

In general german cars have historically been heavily over engineered (not necessarily the most reliable, mind you), and I believe the Veyron to be no different. It can do things like have exceptional high speed stability, that even Gordan Murray's fabled Maclaren F1 did not posses (just ask anyone who has run it above 210 mph). A garage that has a couple engineers could never hope to make a car that can compete with this accomplishment.

I am not saying that they can't make it faster/lighter/cheaper/etc. I'm just saying that it can not be as well engineered overall.

[tforth]

nthfinity wrote:
Throught extrememe testing no less.... from temperatures of 130 F (somehow I doubt they test in many sub- zero aplications.... who would drive a 1000 hp rwd car when its snowing?.... eh, maybe somebody does it)
[/quote]

I guess you haven't seen that Veyron video where is in a sustained drift on an ice covered lake. This is a perfect example of what I am refering to. Cold whether testing is just one of umpteen requirements the OEs have that tuners (in general) do not.


You are familiar with FMEA? right? You are familar with computer models to simulate falure modes, and that they have been accurate means of simulation since the early 80's, right? You know that the Americans developed FMEA, right? (In fact, right in Walled Lake Michigan... for the aerospace industry)


Yes, as any supplier knows, D/PFMEAs, DVP&Rs, etc. have been a deliverable to OEs for well over 10 years now. And yes I am perfectly aware of the fact that OEs commision suppliers to perform specific development work as well. We are regularly commisioned to perform these activities where they make sense to us.

[RC45]

When someone comes to forums claiming to be an "expert" then spreads lies and falsehoods, they need to come clean and be honest.


Actually, you're the one using the terms 'expert' and 'god' when referring to my statements. My intent is only to provide mostly objective feedback from a car enthusiast who has been working for a tier one supplier for 15 years. We design/develop/manufacture patented engine component/systems, as well some non engine automotive related products as well. We supply on a prototype/production/service basis to almost all OEs around the world.

Through this experience, as well as my avid interest in high performance, but well engineered cars, I have learned a few things that I like to share from time to time in this forum.

And somehow everyone else is chopped liver?



The simple point I'm trying to make here, is that Veyron is much more than skin deep. Unfortunately, that is all the average enthusiast is aware of - the bare numbers.

And of course everyone else is just an "average enthusiast" :roll: -


There is an immense amount of engineering that has gone into this car which 99% of the average enthusiast is unaware of.

And you know this how? A little presumptuous.


One example from the VW Phaeton is that it can cruise at a derestricted 186 mph, in 40°C, while maintaining the cabin temperature at 20°C (or something like this). This was a requirement of Ferdinand Piech when he commissioned this vehicle, even though it was speed limited to 155 mph...

:roll:


In general german cars have historically been heavily over engineered (not necessarily the most reliable, mind you), and I believe the Veyron to be no different. It can do things like have exceptional high speed stability, that even Gordan Murray's fabled Maclaren F1 did not posses (just ask anyone who has run it above 210 mph).

Quoted for dramatic effect.


A garage that has a couple engineers could never hope to make a car that can compete with this accomplishment.

Of course not.. the likes of Steve Saleen and Alois Ruf are well known for creating absolute crap that sucks, is unreliable and handles for shit - afterall, they are not "engineered" but simply thrown together by a bunch of hicks in lederhosen.
:roll:


I am not saying that they can't make it faster/lighter/cheaper/etc. I'm just saying that it can not be as well engineered overall.
And this changes what about tuner cars?

[5vz-fe]

To my understanding, German cars tend to have certain parts over engineered, and certain parts under-engineered. This achieve the unreliable you are talking about.

A garage that has a couple engineers would choose to use something already engineered (and most likely race proven) and use that as a basis for a better product. In doing so, they can save ALOT of R&D and focus more on their overall packaging.

VW insist on using W engine design, but the only advantage of this design is its compactness. So to make up for the power deflict, they slap on more turbos, this solve the power issue but create the heat issue. Then they slap on 3 radiators to cool the engine, 1 heat exchanger for the air to liquid intercoolers. Now they have solved both power and heat issue, leaving the ultimate left over.....weight.

[JoeHahn]

To my understanding, German cars tend to have certain parts over engineered, and certain parts under-engineered. This achieve the unreliable you are talking about.

A garage that has a couple engineers would choose to use something already engineered (and most likely race proven) and use that as a basis for a better product. In doing so, they can save ALOT of R&D and focus more on their overall packaging.

VW insist on using W engine design, but the only advantage of this design is its compactness. So to make up for the power deflict, they slap on more turbos, this solve the power issue but create the heat issue. Then they slap on 3 radiators to cool the engine, 1 heat exchanger for the air to liquid intercoolers. Now they have to solve both power and heat issue, leaving the ultimate left over.....weight.

Power issue for the W engine design? VW Pushed the W12 to over 100 bhp/l and ran it for 24 hours reliably.

[nthfinity]

I guess you haven't seen that Veyron video where is in a sustained drift on an ice covered lake. This is a perfect example of what I am refering to. Cold whether testing is just one of umpteen requirements the OEs have that tuners (in general) do not. Maybe you missed what I wrote, I wasn't talking about the Veyron, but a RWD car.
[/quote]

[RC45]

I guess you haven't seen that Veyron video where is in a sustained drift on an ice covered lake. This is a perfect example of what I am refering to. Cold whether testing is just one of umpteen requirements the OEs have that tuners (in general) do not. Maybe you missed what I wrote, I wasn't talking about the Veyron, but a RWD car.


And WTF does the OEM cold weather testing have to do with a tuner any fucking way?

Lets take - say the Porsche 911.

The reason RUF doesnt "cold weather" test all the 911s they tune.... why do we think?

Maybe its because the 911 has already been "cold weather" tested up the freaking wazoooo by the "OEM"- and the changes to the platform a RUF rebuild does will not need to be "cold weather tested".

The same way the current MODEL CHANGES that Porsche make to the 911 chassis won't be subjected to full program "cold weather testing" the NEW models get before launch.

I guess for a "special insider" tforth really does not have that much of a clue - and is simply arguing and posting nonsense to create friction and anger on the forums and promote hostility.

Is it possible he he has been shown to be ill-informed, incorrect or plain wrong? I hope not.

Unless he can come along and SHOW that every major manufacturer CONTINUEs to do super-long term HUGE expense cold-weather testing (as an example) of exisitng models for the entire model run - perhaps we shouldl call BS on what he is posting and claiming. ;) (checks and balances you know)

Last time I checked, the manufacturers werer TOO BUSY testing the NEXT models to be caught up in ongoing and continual testing of the CURRENT models to the same depth and intensity as the NEW/FUTURE models.

Which negates ANY claim that just because tuners don't "ISO9000" test the "tuned" models they produce, they are inferior in any way shape of form.

As - uhm, lets see, repeated for dramatic effect - the manufacturer already took care of type and platform testing BEFORE they launched the new model, and we seldom if ever see the manufacturers subject mid-model changes to the same rigorous battery of tests we see the new/future models subjected to.....

Unless tforth can prove otherwise.

I am always willing to learn new stuff - so here is your chance to educate a simple stupid average enthusiast... I am willing to learn from the master.

:)

[5vz-fe]

To my understanding, German cars tend to have certain parts over engineered, and certain parts under-engineered. This achieve the unreliable you are talking about.

A garage that has a couple engineers would choose to use something already engineered (and most likely race proven) and use that as a basis for a better product. In doing so, they can save ALOT of R&D and focus more on their overall packaging.

VW insist on using W engine design, but the only advantage of this design is its compactness. So to make up for the power deflict, they slap on more turbos, this solve the power issue but create the heat issue. Then they slap on 3 radiators to cool the engine, 1 heat exchanger for the air to liquid intercoolers. Now they have to solve both power and heat issue, leaving the ultimate left over.....weight.

Power issue for the W engine design? VW Pushed the W12 to over 100 bhp/l and ran it for 24 hours reliably.

I hope you understand when I mention power deflict, I mean in relative terms. I will bet my money that a V12 will run smoother than a W16, a V8 will run cooler than a W16 while achieving 600hp @ 100hp/L. The only reason, IMO, VW did the 24h record is to try to establish better reputation for the W design.

[tforth]

RC45 wrote:
Unless he can come along and SHOW that every major manufacturer CONTINUEs to do super-long term HUGE expense cold-weather testing (as an example) of existing models for the entire model run - perhaps we should call BS on what he is posting and claiming. (checks and balances you know)
[/quote]

No OE that I have ever dealt with allowed production changes without an appropriate DV sign-off. Sometimes the tests can simply be conducted on the component or sub-system in isolation. Typically, you should go back to your DFMEA and verify whether your change can cause new or increase the 'RPN' of failure modes.

On the other hand tuners are known for performing CV (Customer Validation) instead of DV (Design Validation). In other words the customer is doing the testing, and the tuner supports them when the run into problems.

To give you another example of where OEs differ from tuners is when it comes to max/min testing. A good OE will run some DV testing with worst case components, at the extreme of their production tolerances. Tuners just don't have the resources for this type of development. So, most of the time, most of their products should be ok. I think most customers accept this as a necessary trade-off for the performance benefit. They just wouldn't accept it from an OE, that's all.

From my perspective your 'message' would have more value if you put away your sledgehammer. I thought that 'Americans always yell', was just a stereotype...

[RC45]

Unless he can come along and SHOW that every major manufacturer CONTINUEs to do super-long term HUGE expense cold-weather testing (as an example) of existing models for the entire model run - perhaps we should call BS on what he is posting and claiming. (checks and balances you know)


No OE that I have ever dealt with allowed production changes without an appropriate DV sign-off. Sometimes the tests can simply be conducted on the component or sub-system in isolation. Typically, you should go back to your DFMEA and verify whether your change can cause new or increase the 'RPN' of failure modes.

On the other hand tuners are known for performing CV (Customer Validation) instead of DV (Design Validation). In other words the customer is doing the testing, and the tuner supports them when the run into problems.

To give you another example of where OEs differ from tuners is when it comes to max/min testing. A good OE will run some DV testing with worst case components, at the extreme of their production tolerances. Tuners just don't have the resources for this type of development. So, most of the time, most of their products should be ok. I think most customers accept this as a necessary trade-off for the performance benefit. They just wouldn't accept it from an OE, that's all.

From my perspective your 'message' would have more value if you put away your sledgehammer. I thought that 'Americans always yell', was just a stereotype...

First off.. learn to quote...

Second off..in other words what you are saying is all along youwere full of hot air and I was pretty much correct.

Third off.. do you honestly think I care how you perceive my "message"?

p.s. I almost forgot... what does all this "OEM" test crap have to do with the Veyron? I mean they are never going to make a 1000 of anything, so ho wcoul dthey possibly meet your super high demands of QC?

Seems they are going to have to sample and estimate rather than actually build a enough to take samples you approve of? ;)