Unless your RC don't bother

[philip]

As you know many Corvettes are advertised for sale with the phrase "matching number". This term as been over used to the point it no longer means what it once did. Orginally "matching number" was used on Midyear big block (BB) (427 cubic inches) cars to state that the car was orginally a big block car. Since it was fairly easy to take a small block (327 cubic inches) car and put a big block in it.

After about 1960 all Corvette engines were stamped with a partial VIN number, thus if the VIN number on the car matched the engine stamped number the "numbers matched".

Thus the term "matching number" ment that the engine was the orginal one that came with the car when new. The term became so important that all Corvettes not just big block cars used the term "matching number" to show that their car had the original engine.

These "matching number" Corvettes began selling at a significant premium to other Corvettes with out the term. The term was then applied to the other components of the car which also contained the partial VIN number including the transmission and differential.

It was not long when car sellers realized that "matching number" did not say "orginal engine" and so the practice of block restamping was born.

In the front of the Corvette engine on the passenger side just below the head is a small flat iron pad where these numbers are stamped.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7918/padnumber63rmauctionsni8.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=padnumber63rmauctionsni8.jpg)

This is an engine pad of a 1963 Corvette SWC (split window coupe) that was sold at an important auction recently for about $85,000. The buyer then, I believe, consigned the Corvette to a dealer, who recently offered it for sale on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-STINGRAY-COUPE-SPLIT-WINDOW_W0QQitemZ230107438762QQcategoryZ6168QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

This is the ebay link which prematurely ended on March 22, 2007 after the dealer received emails regarding the engine pad photo which was provided.

The dealer also provided a photo of the VIN plate, which on this car is located under the glove box.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9858/p63vinnumberrmauctionsnnw5.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p63vinnumberrmauctionsnnw5.jpg)

The value of this car will almost drop in half from what was paid if the engine was not orginal as was apparently represented at the auction.

I will allow some time for comments on the VIN tag and the engine pad before, I continue with the analysis.

[blinkmeat]

/bothered

:roll:

[Mattk]

Ooh, car sales consipiracy!

[TNT]

meh i have never been that worried about the "stupid" details on cars.

[T-Bird]

Numbers matching is to prove that all the important parts on the car are original they use the term on most frame off restorations that used all original parts. it is VERYrare to find a complete numbers matching car.

It also helpswhen buyinga new car because most cars have the vin on every piece of the body and major components to help identify if it was in an accident.

[graywolf624]

^It also isn't exactly a corvette exclusive, or even a corvette originated concept. It is very common with any classic car. Engine and tranny tend to be the big ticket checks.

Also given RC drives a 2004 Corvette I doubt he cares about classic cars and matching numbers. This is something you do for a 30 year old car, not a 4 year old vette.

[PaulGT2164]

to a collector, who is trying to preserve a "pristine" or close to factory as possible, numbers matching can make a huge difference

we deal with a huge amount of issues and cars that the owner wants "numbers matching" or wants everything "correct" on a resto

[TopGearNL]

Numbers mean everything, it says whether the part is original or not and for a real fan that is all that matters..

But for normal people numbers are meaningless..

[RC45]

sadly, when the factory (say GM) replace the motor/transmission/any other VIN shared part under warranty these days, they do so without renumbering - and often dont even record it.

I feel a numbers matching ORIGINAL car is of interest, but a car restored to "numbers matching' condition is just a silly excercise in extracting the most money from the welloff buyer at Burglar-Hijacks... I mean Barret-Jackson ;)

[philip]

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9858/p63vinnumberrmauctionsnnw5.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p63vinnumberrmauctionsnnw5.jpg)

The VIN number on the plate located under the glovebox shows 30837S117347
A VIN decoder shows that the starting 3 means 1963, 0837 means Corvette coupe, the S is for St. Louis plant (only plant in 1963) and the 117347 is the sequence number for this car in that year starting with 100001. Thus this is the 17247 Corvette made that year. Using the VIN to find the cars birthday, you can visit http://www.c2registry.org/index.php. Which calculates this cars birthday as June 14, 1963

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7918/padnumber63rmauctionsni8.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=padnumber63rmauctionsni8.jpg)

Now looking at the engine pad it shows the Partial VIN as 3117374. The 3 is for 1963 which is correct for a 1963 car. Followed by 117374 for the sequence at the factory that year.

Now when your restamping a block, to me it would be important to get the numbers in the right order and to not transpose the last two, which is what has happened here. 117374 on the block 117347 on the VIN plate.

Thus this is a restamped block, it could be orginal to the car, but that is highly unlikely as we will explore later.

The new owner of this car has just taken a $40,000.00 hit.

The dealer who has been trying to sell the car now gets to tell the owner the bad news. This car because of the power of the internet is now well know as a fake and it will be difficult to resell at the previous price. I suspect the fancy auction that this car was sold at has been called already and the only people who will make any money will be the lawyers.

[novass]

Where is this coming from? I mean, why are you bringing it up? Do you know the person that either sold or bought this car? This just seems kind of random.

Anytime you have a collectible anything, the more info you have relating to its originality is crucial to its value, this is nothing new. Matching numbers on cars have been used since cars were being seen as collector items. I highly doubt the term originated from BB Vettes since people were collecting cars before Vettes had even been made.

[philip]

This information is coming from an ebay auction that ended a week ago. It is still posted online at the link above. I'm bringing it up because it is car news and it interests me.

I do not know anyone involved. It is random, but its about cars and not about Muslims, global warming or the war in Iraq or Imams suing the passenger in Minneapolis who notified the pilot that they were behaving suspiciously, so I felt it would be welcome. Afterall I'm not going to be able to write about the Grand Prix of Houston till next month.

I never heard the word "matching numbers" used before Corvettes. Could have happened, I just never saw it in an add. Since then it has been picked up by other gm muscle cars.

Many other cars to have original components, do not use "matching numbers" as the numbers don't match. For Porsches you say Kardex for older cars, newer ones Certificate of Authenticity. The VIN number and the engine numbers are different, you can tell with books if the engine is correct for the car, but to know if it is the original components you must have the Kardex or the CofA. I don't know about other older collectible cars like Dusenburgs or Rolls Royces. GM only started stamping VINs on Corvette engines in 1960, so did those older cars even have numbers.

In the coming installments I will show more of what is wrong with this engine pad, then as the readers become more skilled at looking at these. We will move to more sophisticated restampings, where a very skilled eye is needed to detect the fake.

By the end of this topic the reader should be able to spot forgeries, maybe not as well as the experts who charge $2000.00 for their analysis, but enough to spot the easy to average forgeries.

Much of this information can be helpful in reviewing engine pads on other GM cars as it is similar for the age. The difference between a Nova and a Nova SS is more than just the badges. As values for all these cars continue to rise, more and more forgeries will appear.

Later we will study a Corvette that was bid up to 1.4 million dollars but that price was not high enough and it did not sell. The reason the car was so valuable was because of the type of engine it had. We will look at the engine pad of this car. You may be surprised.

I hope anyone who is interested in Corvettes or car collecting will keep on reading. I'm in no way an expert, but I hope we both can learn something about not paying to much for a "numbers matching" car.

[79TA]

in car sales like that, documentation is everything.

[novass]

It is random, but its about cars and not about Muslims, global warming or the war in Iraq or Imams...

LOL No worries then. Things like this are always nice to learn, I was just curious as to why you were bringing it up. As far as VIN being placed on the block, I know Ferrari has done it for quite a while now. I am not sure when the first one they did was, but I would venture to say sometime in the 50's.