Do you believe in miracles?

[corvette97]

do you think that miracles exist or may happen??, thats just something that i really need to know, for personal needs!...thnx for posting :wink:

[zevolv]

sure miracles can happen

[Minacious]

Sure they do. You're still here even though you continue to post useless topics, right? That in itself is a miracle.

I'm just messing with you man. :D

[gis]

yeah i think miracles can happen,depends how bad u want them to happen though :wink:

[dylan99]

I think miracles are just a excuse for ppl who can't explain what happened to them or others.

[SFDMALEX]

Miracles is another word for luck IMO.
I dont belive in some higher power stepping in, and making miracles happen.

I gree with you word for word.

[Chaos in 1983!]

sure I think they can happen...

[crazidude]

nah I don't think miracles happen. Same reason as what brembo said

[BADMIHAI]

Mircales do not exist, just as god doesn't exist.

[zevolv]

Ditka is god(he's not the God though)

[corvette97]

am not gonna post more topics :(

[zr2man99]

Atheist ruin all the fun don't they? So closed-minded.

[zevolv]

yes they do ruin things

[godspeed06]

haha, a close minded atheist, thats funny. no, i don't believe in miracles, but if that somehow gives you hope when you otherwise wouldn't have it, i wouldn't bash you for believing.

[Toronto]

yes they do!

[Minacious]

am not gonna post more topics :(

Oh man, post your topics, I was just messing with you. :D

[corvette97]

corvette97 wrote:
am not gonna post more topics


Oh man, post your topics, I was just messing with you.

lol i know bro..

does anyone has a example of something that occur to u or ur fam?

[asthenia]

I've only ever got one speeding ticket. I think that proves miracles can happen.

[mrzonda]

Miracles do happen.

Case in point: Right underneath (I mean right underneath) one of the A-bombs (don't remember if it was Hiroshima or Nagasaki) there was a chapel that stood un-damaged.

Case in point 2: my dad fell off the roof. He fell off the top, bounced off two other roofs, grabbed the gutter, landed on his head, net drop = around 25ft. Injuries: black eye, fractured orbit, dislocated shoulder, no broken back or neck.

Oh ya, when he fell, a screw driver (he had some tools with him) stabbed him right in the chest missing his heart by inches.

See, miracles happen. :D :D :D

[zevolv]

The church that was next to the World Trade Center that didn't sustain any damage all the Windows were intact, that's amazing

[corvette97]

well, i opened this topic cuz' i wanted to know other ppl opinions (obiously thats by i opened), but more than know the ppls opinions, i was looking for a overall view about the subject,

FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN MIRACLES!!!
have u ever aked for something material....something material that will help u in ur life and so on...not things that are only material....for example a super car..., do u think that if u asked for something that has a good purpuse...will happen? for example....someone who's mom wants something really bad..(who knows...a car...a house....business)??? sorry to ask an answer in a CAR SITE, but i see that there a lot of good ppl with good perspective of life and so on.. so tell me ur opinion thanxs

[possessed_beaver]

in my opinion, you're mind manafests you're reality.
so you can get whatever u want, be thinking about it and working twoards it.
when u think about it, evreything in this world is a result of someone's thought.

if you don't understand what im saying i can go into more detail.

[Chaos in 1983!]

you don't exatly ask for a miracle...I mean you can't just say "my mom really want's a car" and the next day you'll see a brand new car with a big red ribbon on your driveway...

I only have one example of a miracle that's happened within my family...years ago like in 95 I really don't remember quite well...my dad, two uncles and a friend of their's went fishing...the day they were coming back home, my uncle decided to stop by his farm and check how things were running...when they got there there were three men with AK47s assaulting the farm...they forced them out of the truck, when they were coming out of the truck, one of the guys fired three shots to my uncle...two on the chest and one to the stomach...as he fell to the ground, the keys from the truck went flying from his hands and got lost in the woods...after that they tied my dad, my other uncle and their friend...and left them there...

After the robbers were gone, they untied themselfes, and started the truck with the wires...and rushed to the hospital...on the way my uncle died in my fathers arms...my uncle had a wife, two boys and a girl.

Although I miss my uncle so much...every day I thank god that nothing happen to my dad, and that I had him throughout my childhood and he'll be there in my adult life...

That my friend, I call a miracle...

[corvette97]

possessed_beaver, i really didn't understand what u tried to say, but would be ok for u to explain me ur point of view!, i did understant that the post that i did reflected mi reality, ...let me tell u, it really might...maybe it does...but is not a need, its just a simple question, to see a general overview of ppls toughts...towards that particular topic....




you don't exatly ask for a miracle...I mean you can't just say "my mom really want's a car" and the next day you'll see a brand new car with a big red ribbon on your driveway...


lol, of course not, it doesnt matter how much i want a thing like that...a car is not gonna appear infront of my house one day, as an act of magic!!, but lets say that i meant more about having FAITH, and that leading to a miracle...and yeah that thing that u posted there is a true MIRACLE, i didn't really specified my question at the start, but i meat that having faith about something can lead to a miracle or realization of something...

[zevolv]

If you really look at it life is a Miracle, family is a miracle.

[DR.GONZO]

Mircales do not exist, just as god doesn't exist.

you are wrong atheis, or darwin Miracles do happen!

[possessed_beaver]

Chaos in 1983!, thats a very sad story dude.

my point was that evreything in this world is a result of someone's thought
ie: take jabbas world.. how was it made, by jabba thinking about it, and taking thoes thoughts regstering a domain name ect.

or even yourself corvette97, you are the product of someone's thought... to have sex.
evreything you do is a result of you're thought.
think positive positive things will come to you.

some of the richest people in the world are aware of this thought process, and hence they always think about money and sucess and get it.

ok some people may find this very hard to understand.
and i shoulden't rely try and infulance people with my view's/opinions... (cuz im not the chatholic church :P)

[X-ale]

Sure they do. You're still here even though you continue to post useless topics, right? That in itself is a miracle.

I'm just messing with you man. :D

:lol:

haha, a close minded atheist, thats funny. no, i don't believe in miracles, but if that somehow gives you hope when you otherwise wouldn't have it, i wouldn't bash you for believing.

:)

[corvette97]

or even yourself corvette97, you are the product of someone's thought... to have sex.
evreything you do is a result of you're thought.
think positive positive things will come to you.

u know bro, u make me see things diferently...

[zr2man99]

My cousin got into a bad snowboarding accident just 2 weeks ago. He broke a vertebra in his neck and some ribs. The doctor said the only reason he lived is because he was wearing a helmet. He told me he normally doesn't wear a helmet just a snow cap. But, something that day told him to wear his helmet. This may sound cheesy but his guardian angel was looking out for him. This helmet was shattered on rocks, which could have easily been his skull.

[jon_s]

Chaos in 1983!, thats a very sad story dude.

my point was that evreything in this world is a result of someone's thought
ie: take jabbas world.. how was it made, by jabba thinking about it, and taking thoes thoughts regstering a domain name ect.

or even yourself corvette97, you are the product of someone's thought... to have sex.
evreything you do is a result of you're thought.
think positive positive things will come to you.

some of the richest people in the world are aware of this thought process, and hence they always think about money and sucess and get it.

ok some people may find this very hard to understand.
and i shoulden't rely try and infulance people with my view's/opinions... (cuz im not the chatholic church :P)

YES!! I understand what you are driving at, I am going to steer clear of the type of miracle that chaso has illustrated, as quite frankly, I don't know. Was it all down to chance/probability/fait/miracle?

As for everyday stuff: You as an individual are responsible for your own opportunities, whether you realise it or not. You get out of life what you put in. If you sit around on your arse, nothing much will happen.....but if you get out there, have a goal, work towards it, you WILL make it. Is this a miracle?? No, it is down to your hard work, and knowing when to take advantage of (perhaps unexpected) situations. Were these situations a miracle?? Probably not, as it still required you to realise it, and act on it. If you had not done so, the 'miracle' would never have come into question.

[corvette97]

This may sound cheesy but his guardian angel was looking out for him.

not cheesy at all, i believe in angels..the take care of me too.


As for everyday stuff: You as an individual are responsible for your own opportunities, whether you realise it or not. You get out of life what you put in. If you sit around on your arse, nothing much will happen.....but if you get out there, have a goal, work towards it, you WILL make it. Is this a miracle?? No, it is down to your hard work, and knowing when to take advantage of (perhaps unexpected) situations. Were these situations a miracle?? Probably not, as it still required you to realise it, and act on it. If you had not done so, the 'miracle' would never have come into question.

well yeah i shouldn't wrote MIRACLE, but does anyone believe if u really want something and you work for it... are u gonna reacieve HELP from above??

[godspeed06]

not one person has mentioned a miracle, all can be explained by physics, biomechanics, or (oh my god) just blatant randomness. and no, not everything in this world was done because of thought, that is so egotistical yet so mainstream in today's culture. i believe that humans are not special and should not rule over the world and all other organisms, yet that is how culture makes us think today which is also why our culture and species will die out in the not so distant future (as far as time relative to the earth and universe is concerned).

[BADMIHAI]

It's funny how you assholes say Atheists are close-minded, when you pray in churches to your inexistent god, instead of going out and doing something to make your dreams reality. Believers are a sad breed.

[zr2man99]

If you are Atheist you are placing a bad bet in the afterlife. If I am wrong and a God does not exist then I have nothing to lose when I die, correct? If there isn't an afterlife than when I die it will be like I never was. The Atheist is correct and nobody knows the difference.

However, if there is an afterlife and a god in heaven, then the believer will be right and be granted paradise. The non-believer will get.... :onfire:

Believing in something is always better than not believing an anything.

[SFDMALEX]

There is a scientific explanation for everything, if there isnt one at the moment for something, there will be one in the future.


Things that people can not explain are not miracles, they are unexplainable due to lack of knowledge on the subject.

[DeMoN]

a miracle is a dejavu-luck. Luck happening the moment you want them to happen, and you wanting it so bad that you cant believe it just happened.

It's kind of liking someone until you realize you "LOVE" that person. You dont stop liking him/her, you just realize you like that person more than you want to.

[godspeed06]

If you are Atheist you are placing a bad bet in the afterlife. If I am wrong and a God does not exist then I have nothing to lose when I die, correct? If there isn't an afterlife than when I die it will be like I never was. The Atheist is correct and nobody knows the difference.

However, if there is an afterlife and a god in heaven, then the believer will be right and be granted paradise. The non-believer will get....

Believing in something is always better than not believing an anything.


you are a classic ignorant christian. what about all the other religions with afterlifes? christianity isn't the only one. if you look at it that way (which is dumb and shows lack of actual thought on the subject) then your "odds" are not as good as you think. i mean how many religions have been thought up on this Earth over the past tens of thousands of years. a lot.

[TT]

you are a classic ignorant christian. what about all the other religions with afterlifes


uhm.. his post could be referred to other religions too as far as I can see

[zr2man99]

Yea I just said God (Allah, Buddha, whatever...) in general. Most religions have an afterlife of some kind. I never once mentioned Jesus or Christianity.

Your name is ironic: GODspeed06

[godspeed06]

did you mean to say "this" and not "his"? i don't understand what you are trying to say.

[TT]

did you mean to say "this" and not "his"? i don't understand what you are trying to say.

Now it's me not understanding... are you referring to my post?

[godspeed06]

i still dont understand your point. if you are trying to say that atheists are dumb for not believing because then our odds are worse of believing in the correct afterlife then i must say yes. but who gives a shit about the difference between 9.9 x 10^69 to 1 and 9.8 x 10^69 to 1. by the way, my name might have "god" in it and might have been derived from a religion (which i'm near positive it was) but that still doesn't change the fact of what it means.

[godspeed06]

haha, yea. damn, we're just all jumbled up in here.

[zr2man99]

Ah, whatever. See you in hell.

[godspeed06]

doubtful, but if there is in fact any being out there that would send me to eternal damnation just for not believing in Him; well, piss on Him. send me to hell, see if i give a shit.

[pimrusis]

I'm alive, thats living proof. If your curious, ask... but I don't want to post up here.

[BADMIHAI]

If you are Atheist you are placing a bad bet in the afterlife. If I am wrong and a God does not exist then I have nothing to lose when I die, correct? If there isn't an afterlife than when I die it will be like I never was. The Atheist is correct and nobody knows the difference.

However, if there is an afterlife and a god in heaven, then the believer will be right and be granted paradise. The non-believer will get.... :onfire:

Believing in something is always better than not believing an anything.

There is no afterlife. If there is an afterlife, you'll still go to someone's Hell, because if you are a Christian, you'll go to Muslim Hell, and vice-versa. Just because I'm Atheist, it doesn't mean I don't know anything about religion. I have read The Bible and I have studied religions. I know that if you only believe in God in order to go to Heaven, you'll go to Hell. You must believe in God, and do good things because you love doing them, not because you want to go to Heaven...at least that's what Christianity says.
If you want to believe in someone or something, believe in yourself. Why spend time praying in some church, praying for miracles, when you can take action and make those "miracles" happen?

[corvette97]

God exists in every kind heart, if u dont believe, u dont have god in ur heart, thats fine.. for me HE is in my heart..and miracles are for ppl who deserves them..

let me put it this way...

case no.1
a christian (or other) with a problem...

having a problem+praying for that problem to go away= No Miracle
the christian tought:
.." oh god knows why this didn't or did happen"


case no.2
a christian (or other) with a problem...

having a problem+praying for that problem to go away= Miracle
the christian tought:
..."oh thanxs god.."

case no. 3

atheist with prob or something else


if the situation changes in a POSITIVE way: "ah, i have luck"

if the situation changes in a NEGATIVE way: "ah shit"

Athesit will never get a MIRACLE, cuz' they never ask for one..they live on the luck path

but anyway i believe that THE RELIGION or if u are atheist, is the best way to live...Good luck and thats the best choice

[mrzonda]

You must believe in God, and do good things because you love doing them, not because you want to go to Heaven...at least that's what Christianity says.


You're right. One has to have faith and deeds, as St. Paul said, "we are not justified by faith alone, but by deeds [as well]."


I know that if you only believe in God in order to go to Heaven, you'll go to Hell.


No living person knows who goes to Heaven or Hell (unless God reveals it to someone).

Anyway, the reason Christians want to goto Heaven and not Hell is because in Heaven, we are with God forever. For eternity. In Hell, we are eternally separated from God.


You must believe in God, and do good things because you love doing them, not because you want to go to Heaven...at least that's what Christianity says.


If you do good things, its because you love others, and you love God: "Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me." If you love God, you want to be with him in heaven for eternity.


Why spend time praying in some church, praying for miracles, when you can take action and make those "miracles" happen?


Can a person with a terminal illness get up and 'take action?'
Can a person with no hope get up and 'take action?'

Alone, we can't do anything, but with God:

"for nothing is impossible with God." Luke 1:37
"Through the chaplet [a prayer] I will grant you anything, if what you ask for is compatible with My Will." Jesus to St. Faustina

[corvette97]

iam glad to see that there still ppl who have values and stuff

[mrzonda]

Oh ya, for those of you who say that there is a scientific explanation for everything, what do you have to say about cripples who bathe in the waters of Lourdes and walk away after, and when doctors say "There is no scientific explanation. It's a miracle" ? Just one example.

[zr2man99]

How is this explained? http://www.mcn.org/1/Miracles/mmiracle.html
Really wierd.

[godspeed06]

first of all just because someone is an atheist does not mean he can't have "morals" or is a bad person, so i don't know what the hell you are trying to get at there. just because we can't explain something now, doesn't mean there won't be an explanation for it later and just because you don't have an explanation doesn't mean someone else can't have an explanation.

[corvette97]

first of all just because someone is an atheist does not mean he can't have "morals" or is a bad person, so i don't know what the hell you are trying to get at there.

i dont believe anyone said that, and if the q. was for me...nothing just wanted to know more about ppl opinions towars that topic,

[zevolv]

I don't think this thread turned out the way you thought it would did it

[godspeed06]

i like what brembo said. he's got some sense.

[corvette97]

jejeje, i dont whant any misconceptions of why i posted this topic, i dont want to convince ppl to believe in what i believe, i pray for what i want, i don't pray for forgivnes, (only the times i regret), but usualy no, i pray for the health and for the well being of my family and friends and also for the things that i want... and yes...t do bad things on purpuse and then start praying is a bunch of bull.., but thats my case and i respect ur's...i really dont know why i posted such topic on a CAR forum, ...i guess i was only looking for opinions...

[gucom]

I have said earlier in this thread that miracles is another word for luck this I stand by.

Godspeed is right when he say that just if you are a Atheist dont make you a bad person.
I dont pray, I dont go to church, I swear sometimes, I drink alkhol to the point of stupidety sometimes, I dont obey all the laws in my country, I have sex without being married,and a lot more non bible or other religion approved stuff.

Does this make me a bad person?

No it doesnt IMO. This is stuff that many so called christians also do, but they pray for forgivnes of their sins and gets it.
I dont pray for forgivnes I do what I do with no regrets, cuz this is who I am.
The thing that bugs me with alot of christians is that just cuz they go to church and pray, they think they are better than me and the likes of me, but they do the same shit and then pray for forgivnes, and that makes it ok? that is a load of crap.
I have discussed christianity with a friend of mine that is a beliver I think religion is a exuse not to think of the fact that when you die its over, six feet under and worm food.

I think people can do what ever they want do with their life as long as they dont try to push their belives on other people.
Somebody said something up here with placing bets on the afterlife,do you fear death that much that you need to belive in something just in case there is a God.
Then you say you got better odds cuz if there is a God you will go to heaven, what if your God is the "wrong" one and Allah is the "right" one then your odds are worse than mine cuz I havnt belived in any God,but you have used your life worshiping the wrong God.

I dont belive there is a hell either cuz if I belive there is hell I have to belive there is a heaven.
_________________


erm something about atheists, theres 2 ways of explaining that word: some ppl say its sum1 without religion, and others say its a person who attacks religions and tries to destroy them.
i think most ppl here use it as:non-religious
but for instance my religion teacher thinks of it as an anti-religious person, sum1 said she was an atheist in my class, the teacher went MAD lol
but i think non-religious ppl can still b good ppl(i think of myself as, well, not a bad guy, rather good actually :P )
i think ppl attacking other religions are just morons, i mean they wouldve believed the exact same thing if their parents would have raised them that way, and untill we die, i dont think any1 can be 100% sure what religion is the right 1(i do hope life doesnt end after ur death)

[mrzonda]

I think some people misunderstand how forgiveness works. One of the conditions for forgiveness being granted is to be sorry for what you did, and promise to try not to do it again. So if your not sorry, then you won't get forgiveness.

[godspeed06]

i mean they wouldve believed the exact same thing if their parents would have raised them that way


that's the problem, no one thinks for themselves. don't even get me started on infant baptism, but if someone comes across christianity neutrally and decides to believe then that is fine.

[mrzonda]

Christianity is a traditional religion by its very nature. All the teachings and traditions we have come to us from the apostles. What's wrong with parents passing their religion on like a tradition?

[mrzonda]

I think its hardly the case that kids are told to believe in God or they'll goto hell. With my experience a lot of 'Christians' don't like to ackknowledge that hell exists. It's a scary thing and they don't want to face it.

I also hardly think religion is being 'forced' upon children. Why are there so many smiling faces at church, especially on the faces of children?

[corvette97]

a child is to young to decide in what they believe, and thats why parents teach them about god, or other religion, but anyway u are free to choose later on in ur life

[corvette97]

a child is to young to decide in what they believe, and thats why parents teach them about god, or other religion, but anyway u are free to choose later on in ur life

[corvette97]

yes thats true but some ppl do, if u are in the case.. its normal to feel that way brembo

[mrzonda]

I see your point about children being generally happy, brembo.

Also, might I point out, that Catholics believe in an in-between called Purgatory. There you go to 'do the time for the crimes' and then once you've done your punishment, then you can goto heaven.

Going back to the forcing thing, I think, more often than not, people tend to emerse their children in it, rather than force it upon them. The children who are taught a faith well, and who are emersed in it from a young age tend to embrace a faith, rather than reject or ignore it.

They dont get the opportunity to discover for them selfs what they want to belive in or if they want to belive at all.

Remember that your family background and history are also part of who you are. I think religion plays a big part in that.

[zevolv]

Purgatory isn't a place to just pay for your sins, you go there to be tested to see if you are truly sorry for your sins and you are given a second chance. You really pay for your sins in hell.

[godspeed06]

mrzonda has more than shown that family and tradition play a large aspect in determining someones faith (most of the time). how then can christians (and other religious people) be so stubborn and stout in their beliefs? i mean people have been warring over religions for thousands of years. i find it utterly baffling. can't they just understand that one is not more "right" than the other and that if they were born in another country under a different religion that they would also practice a different religion. think about it mrzonda and others, if only you were born in a different place you would not be a christian. basically you are christian because of your geographical upbringing (again most of the time, i mean i myself am an exception).

[mrzonda]

I disagree. I don't think that I, or many others, are Christians because of our geographical upbringing. Christianity thrives all over the world. I bet if you looked at it statistically, the chance that you will be a Christian is independent of where you were born. Of course, there are exceptions, but I bet, for the most part, that would be the case.

[godspeed06]

nope. you can't argue that culture doesn't influence religion which is basically what you are saying. culture is a function of geography and religion is a function of culture. if you were born into a different culture and therefore different geographic region you would most likely not be christian. you can't argue that. you were born into a culture of christianity and you are christian. if you were born where buddhism is popular you would probably be buddhist. this is pretty much common knowledge. people just never have their eyes open to it.

[mrzonda]

I agree with your last post, but what I was saying is that for the most part, Christianity is everywhere. Religion does definitely depend on the culture that you were born into. I guess I worded my last post poorly.

[zr2man99]

Christians are haven't been the only religious people that have gone around killing people.

[mrzonda]

My history isn't great Aside from the Crusades, but that wasn't forcing religion, that was "reclaiming the Holy Land" or whatever, can you give me an example of Christians going around killing people who didn't want to believe?

[mrzonda]

Well, I don't I have a reply to that. All I can say is that whoever did that made a horrible (it's impossible not to understate something like that) mistake, and I'm sure they've paid for their sins.

[mrzonda]

No no, that's not how it works at all. If I remember, John 3:16 says:

"For God so loved the world that he sent his only Son, that whoever believes in him, may have eternal life."

I think someone has mentioned this before, that "man is not justified by faith alone, but by deeds." There's the faith part, and there's the deeds part. Gotta have both. Those guys had the faith part, albeit a messed up version, but they screwed up by royally on the deeds part.

Just a counter example, think of the people who actually crashed the planes into the world trade center buildings, didn't someone say that that was in the name of God? I think the two examples are very similar. Now, I'm not saying that it's ok to do something horrible and say 'it's in the name of God' so its ok. It isn't, unfortunately, some people who aren't all there think it is.

[mrzonda]

I don't think it's that simple, but it's true. God is infinitely forgiving. But who knows when you're going to die? Today, tomorrow, who knows, right?

[godspeed06]

some christians do belief in justification by faith alone. ever heard of the protestants... martin luther and so on.

Look what the spanish conquistador did in south america to the indians, there they had to fall back to macu pihcu, the only city they didnt find and it was lost and forgotten for hundred of years.
This was to get them to belive in the "right" God. In Africa there was the same in the early days of the exploration of the continent.

damn white man's burden. don't forget the spanish inquisition, the witch hunts, the fact that the Roman Catholic Church was an empire within itself. it had an emperor (the pope) and an army :shock: . yea, thats right, the damn church had its own fucking army. and do you want to know why it wanted to spread christianity? because they wanted to save souls :roll: ? no, if they spread christianity then the area that they "conquered" would then have to pay taxes to the church and recognize it as the ruler. the church gained money and power which is exactly what an empire needs. the rise of absolutist monarchies finally tried to put an end to it by confiscating church lands and granting religious tolerance. its not quite this simple obviously but im not going to write a damn book here.

[mrzonda]

Sorry, I should've mentioned that Lutherans believed in justification alone, but Catholics do not.

[FerrariKiller]

i do
know why?
fluffernutter