What is the best Used Sports Car buy around?

[RC45]

SPORTS CAR

If you wanted a single used sports car what would it be - and why?

The criteria are rather simple:

The car needs to be very fast, turn and stop very well - be reasonably conservative with fuel consumption (as this car is going to be your daily driver - to work and home and the shops.)

close to the magical 4s 0-60, 180mph topend potential, screaming 1/4 mile, 60-0 in 100ft, 1G+ lateral load ability... you are allowed to modify your used car to reach these levels of performance - but tell us the purchase price + mod amount (be realistc, offer and post actual examples :P)

The car needs to be able to hold it's own on drives through the countryside and when you take the car to a local race track, turn in decent lap times and even be able to withstand some drag racing abuse.

The car needs to be a survivor and be able to turn over 120,000 miles without a problem and reasonably affordable to repair and service

There needs to be enough space inside to take you briefcase and laptop, and a bunch of shopping bags of groceries - but it's used so might not be your only car - bu tneeds to be more practical than a Super 7 ;) :P

The car also needs to be a reasonably affordable to insure on a family budget and finally - be affordable to purchase at under $45,000 including mods..

It also must be usable rain or shine - in climates with snow fall, you may assume that you dont need to drive on unplowed roads.

In short - what used sports car is the best bang for the buck - state your reasons and budget you worked with.

;)

Lets see your responses.

(BTW - try stay on topic an leave the personal attacks outside ----- please..... :P)

[79TA]

I'd opt for a 2002 Pontiac Firebird with an LS1. It wouldn't necessarily need to be the Trans Am as the 4 nostril hood is a bit awkward and the TA is a bit heavier with its extra options. I know this is more of a muscle car than a sports car, but I think it'd fit the criteria very nicely.

4th generation Camaros and Firebirds are getting cheaper these days. One can pick up an LS1 automatic car for as little as 5 grand. I'd expect to pay about 12k for a good car with the manual 6 speed.

First off, it is ridiculously easy to make big power with the LS1. If you build it around a set of good cylinders heads flowing about 310 cfm, 500 hp is possible with the stock compression, bore, stroke, and even camshaft. A reliable 600 hp is definitely possible in well thought out LS1 build. After this 600 hp, one could go for more dangerous and less reliable power adders such as nitrous, turbochargers, and superchargers. I'd be very content with a good N/A build up though.

drivetrain costs:

cylinder heads - $2000.00
LSX 90 mm intake - $870.00
LSX 90 mm throttle body - $520.00
comp cams conical springs - $180.00
comp cams pushrods - $135.00
comp cams camshaft - $400.00
headers - $865.00
properly baffled road race oil pan - 500
various machining costs (assuming you'd clean up the block good) along with gaskets and other stuff etc - about $2500.00

properly beefing up the transmission (clutchplate etc) - about $3000.00
properly preparing the rear differential - about $1000.00
really good (and hopefully smog compliant) exhaust set up - about $1500.00

That all adds up to 23,970.00. After that throw a sizeable wad into the suspension set up (10k maybe? all sorts of set ups could be used . . . ) and then throw on a good set of Baer brakes (I'll call that 4000.00). Things could be lightened up a tad with a fiberglass hood and rear hatch.

The car would be a beast from 0-60 and should have the hp and gear ratio to push 180 (especially when 6th gear is designed for cruising at 70 at 2000 rpm and is often actually too tall for a top speed run). The Baer brakes would take the 3550 lb car (lower option cars are this light . . . fully loaded is about 3800 lbs) to a stop within the specified distance.

A stock 4th gen pulls about .87 G's on the skid pad. Assuming the car's interior along with other parts would remain ungutted, I don't think it could pull 1.0 G's. It should be good for something in the mid .9's though.

Mileage around town wouldn't be too good. I'll estimate 10 mpg in town and 19 on the highway.

If done properly, the car could be made to appear like the average slightly modified 4th gen. It'd be a very fun sleeper.

[RC45]

When it comes to second-hand sports cars - only one name comes to mind... and it's Porsche. Out of them, the 993 Turbo, 996 GT3 mk1 and 996 GT3 RS are the best IMO. Although if the budget is more limited, I'd do with a 964 RS :wink:

Well - name the car and ho wyouwould fit it into $45,000 :P

[dm_h_2007]

A loosely accurate list-
348 TS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONLY-10-000-MILES-ON-THIS-AS-NEW-PAMPERED-348-TS_W0QQitemZ130071407842QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6212QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Daytona (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-Daytona-spyder-by-Mc-Burnie_W0QQitemZ220074311582QQihZ012QQcategoryZ621 2QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
NSX-T (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FLORIDA-GARAGE-KEPT-3-2-NSX-T-ONLY-25K-MILES-SHOWROOM_W0QQitemZ290074794083QQihZ019QQcategoryZ5 337QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
XKR (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-XKR-CONV-NAVI-390hp-Mint-SUPER-NICE-Best-Offer_W0QQitemZ280074198648QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6276 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Ford GT Pantera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-De-Tomaso-L-8K-Original-Miles-Shelby-Cobra-SOLID_W0QQitemZ280070376690QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1164 78QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) maybe...
911 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-2DR-BLACK-XENON-COUPE-PASSENGER-SPOILER_W0QQitemZ110083536033QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10 156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
GTX (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-PLYMOUTH-GTX-440-SIX-PACK-LOWER-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ330079667506QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64 12QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Cambiocorsa (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-Maserati-Coupe-Cambiocorsa_W0QQitemZ280071409470QQihZ018QQcategor yZ6313QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Shelby Cobra (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COBRA-STALLION-429-B_W0QQitemZ150084009454QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6465QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem)
Elise (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-LOTUS-ELISE-BEST-PRICES-ON-NEW-LOTUS-IN-U-S-A_W0QQitemZ200072223998QQihZ010QQcategoryZ116481QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Esprit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Lotus-Esprit-V8-custom-paint-race-chip_W0QQitemZ150083162654QQihZ005QQcategoryZ11648 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


And of course tons of Vette's, GTO's M3's and Mustang's.

[RC45]

A loosely accurate list-
348 TS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONLY-10-000-MILES-ON-THIS-AS-NEW-PAMPERED-348-TS_W0QQitemZ130071407842QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6212QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Daytona (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-Daytona-spyder-by-Mc-Burnie_W0QQitemZ220074311582QQihZ012QQcategoryZ621 2QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
NSX-T (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FLORIDA-GARAGE-KEPT-3-2-NSX-T-ONLY-25K-MILES-SHOWROOM_W0QQitemZ290074794083QQihZ019QQcategoryZ5 337QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
XKR (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-XKR-CONV-NAVI-390hp-Mint-SUPER-NICE-Best-Offer_W0QQitemZ280074198648QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6276 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Ford GT Pantera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-De-Tomaso-L-8K-Original-Miles-Shelby-Cobra-SOLID_W0QQitemZ280070376690QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1164 78QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) maybe...
911 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-2DR-BLACK-XENON-COUPE-PASSENGER-SPOILER_W0QQitemZ110083536033QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10 156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
GTX (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-PLYMOUTH-GTX-440-SIX-PACK-LOWER-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ330079667506QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64 12QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Cambiocorsa (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-Maserati-Coupe-Cambiocorsa_W0QQitemZ280071409470QQihZ018QQcategor yZ6313QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Shelby Cobra (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COBRA-STALLION-429-B_W0QQitemZ150084009454QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6465QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem)
Elise (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-LOTUS-ELISE-BEST-PRICES-ON-NEW-LOTUS-IN-U-S-A_W0QQitemZ200072223998QQihZ010QQcategoryZ116481QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Esprit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Lotus-Esprit-V8-custom-paint-race-chip_W0QQitemZ150083162654QQihZ005QQcategoryZ11648 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


And of course tons of Vette's, GTO's and Mustang's.

You need to choose 1 and identify the cost and possible mod budget ;)

[dm_h_2007]

A loosely accurate list-
348 TS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONLY-10-000-MILES-ON-THIS-AS-NEW-PAMPERED-348-TS_W0QQitemZ130071407842QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6212QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Daytona (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-Daytona-spyder-by-Mc-Burnie_W0QQitemZ220074311582QQihZ012QQcategoryZ621 2QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
NSX-T (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FLORIDA-GARAGE-KEPT-3-2-NSX-T-ONLY-25K-MILES-SHOWROOM_W0QQitemZ290074794083QQihZ019QQcategoryZ5 337QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
XKR (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-XKR-CONV-NAVI-390hp-Mint-SUPER-NICE-Best-Offer_W0QQitemZ280074198648QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6276 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Ford GT Pantera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-De-Tomaso-L-8K-Original-Miles-Shelby-Cobra-SOLID_W0QQitemZ280070376690QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1164 78QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) maybe...
911 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-2DR-BLACK-XENON-COUPE-PASSENGER-SPOILER_W0QQitemZ110083536033QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10 156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
GTX (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-PLYMOUTH-GTX-440-SIX-PACK-LOWER-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ330079667506QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64 12QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Cambiocorsa (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-Maserati-Coupe-Cambiocorsa_W0QQitemZ280071409470QQihZ018QQcategor yZ6313QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Shelby Cobra (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COBRA-STALLION-429-B_W0QQitemZ150084009454QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6465QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem)
Elise (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-LOTUS-ELISE-BEST-PRICES-ON-NEW-LOTUS-IN-U-S-A_W0QQitemZ200072223998QQihZ010QQcategoryZ116481QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Esprit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Lotus-Esprit-V8-custom-paint-race-chip_W0QQitemZ150083162654QQihZ005QQcategoryZ11648 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


And of course tons of Vette's, GTO's and Mustang's.

You need to choose 1 and identify the cost and possible mod budget ;)

If I had to choose just one for modding it would probably be none of those and I would just get a used Vette because its best bang for the buck with a ton of affordable, easy to install mods. Maybe this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/07-LOADED-57-MLS-CORVETTE-TARGA-6-SPD-SPORT-LEATHR-AVE_W0QQitemZ150082949150QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6168QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

[graywolf624]

Daytona
Its a kit car not a real one... lol.

Ford GT Pantera
Given the Pantera was made Detomaso, buyer beware.

GTX
Great muscle car but about as much in common with a sports car as a prius.

348 TS
Not going to happen for under 45k.

[sameerrao]

Ferrari 348 - why because it is a Ferrari of course - a magical experience guaranteed. :)

There is no money left over for modding here and you will be easily beaten off the line by modern sports cars. After all you are getting a 15 year old car. It is expensive to maintain but should be depreciation proof. So it is a better buy than a 40-50K new Corvette or Boxster or M3. It is pretty practical for a 2 seaters - you get a reasonable boot for say a weekend trip, the interior is very airy, the visibility is excellent, the heater/a/c works fine. No issues really.

But who cares about things modding or 0-60 times when you are having so much fun. Isn't that the point of a sports car - to have fun while driving. No other sports car I have driven in the past - Corvette, Boxster, Pontiac GTO, NSX, S2000 - excites me that much. Ferrari has got some magic potion that captivates its drivers into forgiving all its faults and becoming a slave for life. INVOLVEMENT is the key.

Being a Ferrari nut for at least 22 years since I saw my first TR, it was lifetime goal to buy a Ferrari. Thus you can see that a Ferrari is not just a car to me - it is a whole lot more. It makes me feel a part of the Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, etc family.

Every night for the last 63 days I go to the garage and wish her good night before I turn in. I did not do this for a Boxster I had for a couple weeks when I was looking after it for a friend.

Different strokes for different folks. Buy whatever gets your motor revving. I can understand why someone like Lakatu will be similarly enthused when he buys his Porsche or maybe Dani for his TdF 355. Buying a car for the numbers seems so transient to me - there will always be a faster car - so who really cares. Buy out of passion sez I. :)

[tuffguy]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/articles/doubleentendre.htm

1st gen Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX.

:twisted:

[sameerrao]

348 TS
Not going to happen for under 45k.[/quote]

You can get a high mile car for 45K and under - trust me ;)

[sameerrao]

^ I agree with you :)

[RC45]

sports car DOES NOT equal 4s 0-60 and 180mph. That's just horse poo.

i think you're quite confused about the definition of "sports car".

it's supposed to have a certain quality about it, which makes people drive with enthusiasm, and with handling, speed, and overall performance which is geared towards DRIVING and not just functioning as a car.

there are MANY 7s 0-60 cars which are much finer and much more enjoyable than modern day "sports cars"....perfect example is 60s and 70s american muscle. Many of those cars only had 6.5s 0-60 times and maxed out aerodynamically at 130mph or so........i'd much rather have one of those than a crusty Acura NSX or something like that.

my picks for BEST BUYS, i will define a bunch of them to show you some VARIETY in choices and how they would all qualify under the criteria.

Porsche 993 (in any form...i've driven a few and they're fantastic. last of the great old school 911s)

BMW M-Coupe (a lost classic and a bit of a flop when it came out, i think it's quite unique and is one of the last great BMWs before they went rubbish)

Audi TT 225 Coupe (easily modified, a design classic, and forget what the media want you to believe.....LOTS of fun to drive)

Porsche Boxster (easily found, pretty cheap these days: $15-20k can get you a pretty good one)

c5 Z06 (i'm not a big fan of the car, but i can't deny its performance)

Mazda RX7 (the last one they made, dunno the model code)

Porsche 914-6 (hard to find an original 6 cylinder 914, but they can easily have a Porsche 6 transplanted into them with fine results!)

i'm not gonna get into the cars of the 60s, because there were too many great sports cars around then.

Lots of words.. little message - there are also a lot of "cars in the 7s 0-60mph range" that are just 4 door slugs which is what the criteria listing was attempting to weed out.

You conveniently selecetd the "4s 0-60mph" option as if the criteria was in isolation and would somehow included actual dragsters - one could almost argue your entry into the topic was mindless and argumentative - even tangential at best, but that would be nothing short of a mindless and argumentative reoly, so no such argument from these quarters.

I f however, you took off those liberal rose tinted glasses and read again youwould see the request was not for submissions of "any sports cars" - it was specifically for FAST sports cars - by the inclusionj of some pretty heavy speed requirements.

The defintion of FAST was covered by "4s 0-60 (as an example of fast), along with a request to be able to turn hard, stop quick and be very capable on a race track.

Your statement that a 60's muscle car is a "sports" car out of the box is quite misleading - very specific cars had sporting pretentions and semi decent handling out of the box - example the Z/28 - but the mid 60's Pontiac GTO was not a very good stopper or turner.

Some of the cars you list may be "sports cars" but they fall short of the topic content because they are not fast sports cars :) - and while some cars are fun and engaging, there is also a lot to be said for being FAST, fun and engaging ;)

If the 993 isn't a Cup Car or Turbo, then it's not the fast member of the family :P

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

In terms of best used sport car...I understand the word reliability for it; and actually the most reliable sport cars are two;

The porsche 911

Every BMW with 6 cilinder such as the M5 MkI and MkII, the M6, the 635 CSI and so on

And every car which has big big aspirated engines with a lot of torque and power in low revs; in essence, the cars that Im talking about are mostly americans and consecuently I mean the corvette, the chevrolet camaro or the pontiac firebird

Another matter is if we talk about used cars in excellent conditions, which for me is the bargain in question; however, who knows about the cars milleage, the maintenaince and so on?

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

In terms of that Dani prefers the classic cars from seventees such as the Renault Alpine A-110 and so on; I agree 90% with dani; however, I consider the best those which were made from mid eightees to 1992 approximately, which mixes the technology specially for the engines such as the turbo, the 4 valves per cilinder without the restrictions such as the safety, the pollution, the traction controls,.....

[ViperASR]

sports car DOES NOT equal 4s 0-60 and 180mph. That's just horse poo.

i think you're quite confused about the definition of "sports car".

it's supposed to have a certain quality about it, which makes people drive with enthusiasm, and with handling, speed, and overall performance which is geared towards DRIVING and not just functioning as a car.

there are MANY 7s 0-60 cars which are much finer and much more enjoyable than modern day "sports cars"....perfect example is 60s and 70s american muscle. Many of those cars only had 6.5s 0-60 times and maxed out aerodynamically at 130mph or so........i'd much rather have one of those than a crusty Acura NSX or something like that.

my picks for BEST BUYS, i will define a bunch of them to show you some VARIETY in choices and how they would all qualify under the criteria.

Porsche 993 (in any form...i've driven a few and they're fantastic. last of the great old school 911s)

BMW M-Coupe (a lost classic and a bit of a flop when it came out, i think it's quite unique and is one of the last great BMWs before they went rubbish)

Audi TT 225 Coupe (easily modified, a design classic, and forget what the media want you to believe.....LOTS of fun to drive)

Porsche Boxster (easily found, pretty cheap these days: $15-20k can get you a pretty good one)

c5 Z06 (i'm not a big fan of the car, but i can't deny its performance)

Mazda RX7 (the last one they made, dunno the model code)

Porsche 914-6 (hard to find an original 6 cylinder 914, but they can easily have a Porsche 6 transplanted into them with fine results!)

i'm not gonna get into the cars of the 60s, because there were too many great sports cars around then.

Amen!! There are alot of (not slow, but certainly not 4 second cars) that I consider sports cars, and would buy in a heart beat if I could afford them. By this defenition even the Porsche 944 Turbo S would not be a sports car, as would the Honda S2000. I dont think that anyone can put an exact time type description of what a sports car it. Just because I cant keep up with your (insert your sports car here) dosnt mean its not a sports car and dosnt mean I'm not having a ton of fun. For me, its not always about being the fastest, but about having a good time, and I truly mean this. Perhaps this is because I grew up racing on a budget and autocrossing a Honda, but to me, winning isnt everything. The most important thing should be that you didnt break anything (really expensive), and that you learned something. But it is very important to some people, and I have seen people blow a ton of money on high powered shifter carts because to them, winning was the most important thing.

Porsche 914-6 would be a very good buy, and would leave a TON of money in your budget for mods. My dad had one when they were new (way before I was born, so sorry, I didnt take any digital pics of it). I was black with the euro bumpers and a few suspension and engine mods. He would track the car at Sebring and Moroso at Porsche track days. He says it was a damn fun car, and he still wishes he hadnt sold it (but he had to to buy a minivan :( )

I would probobly go for something like a Lotus Elise if I had that type of money to spend on a second car. I would leave it stock for the most part as they are hella good cars straight out of the box, and if you can live with the ride can also be used to go to work if you want to or need to. Awesome car for auto-x events and track days.

[sameerrao]

Nice to see the classic car buffs turn in their votes :)

So many interesting choices:
- E30 M3
- Porsche 930
- Porsche 911 Carrera
- Lancia Delta Integrale
- Ferrari 348/328
- Lotus Elan (original)
- Mazda Miata
- De Tomaso Pantera
- Light Car Company Rocket - if you can find one
- Cosworth RS500
- Mercedes 230 Evo
...

It is clear that one man's definition of a good used sports car buy is different from another's. We are all different in our likes and dislikes and some cars press our buttons but leave others cold.

[ViperASR]

Mazda Miata

Great choice, can buy one used absolutly dirt cheap, like under $7000, and still have it be the one with the exposed headlights and a 6-speed. That leaves, $38,000 saved, and say you spend about $10000 modding it, it would be the most fun and bang for the buck EVER! They are excellent cars to drive and to learn on, and even provide smiles for pros. Great sports car that would be a ton of fun as a second car for track days and autocrossing. If it had enough balls under the hood (a turbo :twisted: ) it would also do pretty well at amateur drift days.

[sameerrao]

As a track car it will be fantastic. I was talking to a Formula Renault driver as well as some Ferrari owners who track their cars. They mentioned that driving a low power but agile car like the Spec Miata was the best way to start tracking.

It is RWD like most race cars and is throttle sensitive. So it is in effect giving you a glimpse of what happens if you say back off the throttle in the middle of corner for instance. Useful lessons to build your skills before you try it with a 500hp car and make a fool of yourself.

Also because the Miata is low on power, if you make a mistake it punishes you with a poor laptime. You can't just call up on more power to make up some time. It forces you to follow the driving line and sustain momentum thru the corners.

All for like 10 grand. What a deal!

[ViperASR]

Also because the Miata is low on power, if you make a mistake it punishes you with a poor laptime. You can't just call up on more power to make up some time. It forces you to follow the driving line and sustain momentum thru the corners.

The quote of the century :lol: . That is exactly the best way to learn how to drive and how to be smooth. Talk to any real racing driver (I am friends with Randy Pobst, although I havnt seen him in about a year) and they will tell you exactly the same thing. Start racing slow, with inexpensive stuff because you will tear s***t up, and want to keep the costs as low as possible. And driving a low hp car will teach you to be smooth and to respect the cornering ability of the car. If you mess up a corner in a high HP car you can put your foot to the floor and make part of the time up in the straight, if you mess up a corner in a low HP car you will get a really slow lap time, and will learn from that mistake.

This is what we like so much about our Formula car, is because it is low HP it teaches you to be smooth and gentle with the car. Also, there are alot of people in the series who are willing to slow down during practice and allow you to follow them to help learn the line. The cars are not difficult to drive, they just reward the driver who is the smooth with suprisingly fast lap times :twisted:

[sameerrao]

What formula car do you have? Pics?

[RC45]

It is clear that one man's definition of a good used sports car buy is different from another's. We are all different in our likes and dislikes and some cars press our buttons but leave others cold.

Actually it is more telling than that even.

Note how not one person used interior layout, build quality, perceived luxury or leather thickness as a criteria. ;)

All people have been doing is posting up names of cars that excite them.

Some like slow cars, some like fast cars - but not one used "interior" or "nationality" or "demographic" or even "luxury" as a selection criteria - ;)

[to the rest]

It is how ever interesting that people are adamant "performance" is not a selection criteria either - try tell this to even a weekend track warrior - that it is "ok to be the slowest slug on the track - as long as you are having fun" ;) Yeah - sure,, ;)

[sameerrao]

It is clear that one man's definition of a good used sports car buy is different from another's. We are all different in our likes and dislikes and some cars press our buttons but leave others cold.

Actually it is more telling than that even.

Note how not one person used interior layout, build quality, perceived luxury or leather thickness as a criteria. ;)

All people have been doing is posting up names of cars that excite them.

Some like slow cars, some like fast cars - but not one used "interior" or "nationality" or "demographic" or even "luxury" as a selection criteria - ;)



:)

[ViperASR]

Some like slow cars, some like fast cars - but not one used "interior" or "nationality" or "demographic" or even "luxury" as a selection criteria - Wink

That is because in your rules you stated that this wasnt your only car, so interior and stuff isnt as important as you are not sitting in traffic jams on your way to work. Also, luxury is not important as it is a used sports car being used for track days and racing and occasional street use, or ar least that is what it is turning into.

And we never said that they were slow cars. 0-60 in 5.5 sec is fast as hell, just not as fast as some. You cannont say that anything that does 0-60 in above 4 seconds is not a sports car, and it seems like everyone agrees with that.

It is how ever interesting that people are adamant "performance" is not a selection criteria either - try tell this to even a weekend track warrior - that it is "ok to be the slowest slug on the track - as long as you are having fun" Wink Yeah - sure,,

Never said I was the slowest, far from it, but hey, someone has to be the slowest :wink: . I just stated that I didnt have to be the fastest one out there to have a good time, but for some people that is more important. There are alot of people out at track days that spend alot more money then I am worth on their car so they can be the fastest guy out there, and to me that is not important.

"How fast you want to go? How much money you got?"

What formula car do you have? Pics?

Its a Formula Vee, its basically an old VW Carmen Gia engine and major suspension components on a Linx Vee chasis. Its one helluva fun car. As for pics, not of mine, as I am usually driving or crewing and not taking pictures. And considering I am away at school I cant jump over and take a few snapshots. I know it Pics of STFU so I guess someone can label me a liar, I really dont care. :wink:

[sameerrao]

^ Post some pics when you get a chance - I would love to see it :)

[ViperASR]

^ Post some pics when you get a chance - I would love to see it :)

It'll probobly be during the summer when we get a chance to get it out of the garage as my father and I are both rather busy right now, but I'll snap a few pics next time if I remember :lol: . Next time I'm home and have some time on my hands I'll try to push her out of the garage and snap some pics.

[RC45]

Some like slow cars, some like fast cars - but not one used "interior" or "nationality" or "demographic" or even "luxury" as a selection criteria - Wink

That is because in your rules you stated that this wasnt your only car, so interior and stuff isnt as important as you are not sitting in traffic jams on your way to work. Also, luxury is not important as it is a used sports car being used for track days and racing and occasional street use, or ar least that is what it is turning into.

Nice comeback.. sortof.. still a cop out.

The point is even if you daily drove - oh, say a 944, the medicre interior wouldn't bother you - right? :P

Or say a used F348.. right? After all - the interior is NOT what a sports car is about. :P


And we never said that they were slow cars. 0-60 in 5.5 sec is fast as hell, just not as fast as some.

In a world of 5s sednas and sub 4s sports cars, 5.5 is pretty slow.. you measyre that in car lenghts. Its simple times and performance benchmarks change.


You cannont say that anything that does 0-60 in above 4 seconds is not a sports car

This was never said - ever - What was asked for was fast sports cars... big difference - you and others just chose to read in what you wanted to.


, and it seems like everyone agrees with that.

Whats not to agree with - but a 5.5s sedan is still not a sports car - which is what some loile to claim :P


It is how ever interesting that people are adamant "performance" is not a selection criteria either - try tell this to even a weekend track warrior - that it is "ok to be the slowest slug on the track - as long as you are having fun" Wink Yeah - sure,,

Never said I was the slowest, far from it, but hey, someone has to be the slowest :wink: .

Who was talking about you? You think your 944 is slow then? ;)


I just stated that I didnt have to be the fastest one out there to have a good time, but for some people that is more important.

The ability to master your steed, fast or slow is what sports cars are about - but you also eventually graduate - why else do people bother to modify even their Miatas?


There are alot of people out at track days that spend alot more money then I am worth on their car so they can be the fastest guy out there, and to me that is not important.

Well - unless they spend the money on improving their skills, all they will be is the potentially fastest - while their ride may be "fastest' they may not be.. and you know full well that I was implying you want to be the fastest and quickest you can be for your own self enjoyment.


"How fast you want to go? How much money you got?"

Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhtttt -- except the falacy that you have to have a $100,000 to get $100,000 speed is the one some of us aim to disprove :P

In your world just becaus eyou don't have $100,000 you can't go really fast... in my world there are ways to achieve $100,000 speeds without having to spend $100,000 ;)


What formula car do you have? Pics?

Its a Formula Vee, its basically an old VW Carmen Gia engine and major suspension components on a Linx Vee chasis. Its one helluva fun car. As for pics, not of mine, as I am usually driving or crewing and not taking pictures. And considering I am away at school I cant jump over and take a few snapshots.

Hmm.. the car isnt stored near by/ You dont maybe have a couple snapshots from last season?


I know it Pics of STFU so I guess someone can label me a liar, I really dont care. :wink:
Nice way to participate in the forum there... :)

Now I know you were not refereing to me in the above episode because I know you know those are not my rules - The community as a whole voted for that.

*shrug*

[ViperASR]

Nice comeback.. sortof.. still a cop out.

The point is even if you daily drove - oh, say a 944, the medicre interior wouldn't bother you - right? Razz

Or say a used F348.. right? After all - the interior is NOT what a sports car is about. Razz

Yea, the interiors may show their age, but they are also older then I am. But when they came out they were awesome interiors.

The ability to master your steed, fast or slow is what sports cars are about - but you also eventually graduate - why else do people bother to modify even their Miatas?

Thats why I'm mondifying the 944 as my skills grow, however I dont want to dump a ton of money into it cuz I plan on buying something faster when I graduate :twisted:

In your world just becaus eyou don't have $100,000 you can't go really fast... in my world there are ways to achieve $100,000 speeds without having to spend $100,000 Wink

I never said that, actually, I said that I would love to own a Super 7-like kit car or something that would be really cheap to drive and would would be hella fast. Remeber in the Z06 topic I said I was a grassroots racer :D . I love fast expensive cars, but I also like the hella fast cheap cars :twisted:

You think your 944 is slow then?

In a straight line, hell yea, I'll be the 1st to admit it :lol: Your Z06 would walk away from me like I was standing still. Thats why the $$$ I've spent on it has been on the suspension, cuz I enjoy cornering :twisted: . I actually just put some track front balljoints on it, and its back in my hometown getting a 4-wheel alighnment, as I'm sure you must know you cant run down to the ghetto car shop and get a good alighnment on a nice sports car.


Well - unless they spend the money on improving their skills, all they will be is the potentially fastest - while their ride may be "fastest' they may not be.

Amen to that, I've beaten Vipers and Z06s at autocrosses in the Honda :lol:

And about the Vee, call me fulla shit, really dont care :wink: :lol: When I get the opportunity the shots will arrive on the forum, no worries!

[TopGearNL]

I once drove with somebody in a Volvo 850 T5R, that car had a rattle and the interior wasn't perfect but it does have character!

I actually like the car to have a unperfect interior, or it rattlling sometimes. It gives the car character otherwise the experience is so well bland..

But who cares about interiors, its the driving experience that counts on the end of the day..!

[sameerrao]

But you got to admit Brembo that when you are driving really fast, the quality of the stitching is not really on the top of your mind as you negotiate the fast sweeper. ;) :)

I would take an F40 with its bakelite plastics and barebones design over a plush Veyron any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
http://www.motorintro.com/clasicos/_imagesclasicos/ferrari%20f40/interior2.jpg

The CS which is one my all-time favorites has a simple but clean interior -nothing fancy but it is business like and purposeful
http://www.dennigcars.org/models/pictures/ferrari_stradale_interior_1.jpg

Honestly too much effort on interior design in a $50-75k and under sports car indicates to me that less effort or money spent on the exterior mechanicals.

Of course if you are buying a price = no object car like the McLaren F1 then a finely stitched hide is OK because you do know that the mechanicals were not compromised. As long as the luxury items do not add too much weight that is.

In a sports car, I appreciate simplicity and function. In a luxury saloon, the quality, fit and finish matters a lot more :)

I know a lot of you tend to ride on the Z06 for its cheap seeming interior but for the performance you get for the money you spend, it is well worth it. Buy a used '01 S4 for $24k for its interior and a Z06 for $30k for its performance and you are set. :)

[TopGearNL]

But you got to admit Brembo that when you are driving really fast, the quality of the stitching is not really on the top of your mind as you negotiate the fast sweeper.

In a sports car, I appreciate simplicity and function. In a luxury saloon, the quality, fit and finish matters a lot more

We share that point of view Sameer! 8)

I love the F40 and Challenge Stradale for that reason!

Thats why I like the M3 CSL so much too. For sure its a stupid car to some people but having no airco, no radio just makes the driving experience even better.. :wink:

[Iwan]

what about a Supra?

[Mattk]

Hmm, I'd have to go with the same choice I made in the new sports car thread - FPV GT. V8 power, race car dynamics, and a new one wouldn't cost you more than US$45k. Used ones are pretty inexpensive. Locally-made (for me), so easy to maintain. Insurance will not be high for a sports car. It even has nice seats and other luxury stuff.

[TopGearNL]

Thats why I like the M3 CSL so much too. For sure its a stupid car to some people but having no airco, no radio just makes the driving experience even better.. :wink:


And why does no aircon (besides more power) or having no radio the driving experience better, when on a track I dont have music on to get more in contact with the car but for regular driving its nice....

And why do you feel your driving experience gets better without these two things?

Well it saves weight and that makes it faster for one.

But thats not the point. Because these things aren't there means its just you and the car, nothing in between, sure you can have aircon and a radio in you own car and don't use it but in the CSL you don't even have a choice. Because if its there you might aswell use it. Thats what I like its a pure drivers car, no nonsense.. I mean racing drivers have no aircon and a radio so it makes you feel a but like a racing driver when driving one of those cars.

[nthfinity]

If you are going to buy a car that you use everyday you dont care if its .5 sec slower around a track cuz of the weight you will also know this when you have actually driven cars....

I seem to recall that the CSL is a full 2 seconds faster even around a tight track like Angelsy...

after driving for quite some time w/out air conditioning, it isn't really a big deal as long as you have ventilation, or a ventilation suit (993 GT1 road car)... then there are the cars that have broken A/C systems that millions don't repair even... its just one less accessory on the belt to remove slight amounts of power. Sure, ac is nice, but not nessisary... radio on the other hand...

[TopGearNL]

If you are going to buy a car that you use everyday you dont care if its .5 sec slower around a track cuz of the weight you will also know this when you have actually driven cars....

I have driven cars and I understand your point completely :wink:

Im not a moron, I would like to have a car with AC and radio too, I mean who doesn't?

I was just saying I like the idea behind those cars ''Just you and the car and the open road/track'' But ok turning of your AC and radio in your S2 does the same, I agree..

[RC45]

Wow - some people are still arguing just for the sake of arguing.

BTW, last nigth I compared the interiors of CGT vs GT! vs GT3 vs Vipet SRT/10 vs Ford GT vs DB( vs M3 vs M3 Convertib;e vs M5 vs 650 vs Panoz vs C6 Z06 vs 360CS vs 360 Spyder vs Muira vs F40 vs RT12 vs CTR YEllowbird vs RTurbo vs 512BB vs Gallardo Coupe vs Gallardo Spyder vs Cayman S vs Cayenne Turbo vs 1969 Dodge SUper B vs RS200 vs V8 Cammer SVT Focus vs 3.8 RSR vs Elise vs F355 spider vs AC Cobra vs C5 Z06 vs 1956, 1957, 1960, 1963, 1965 and 1969 Corvteets vs 997 C4 vs Bentley GT and some normal 3 series and 5 series. I am sure I forgot some cars.

First off - after being in an around so many cars, each one just becomes "amother car".

Second, the only cars that were uncomfortable during egress and ingress were the race cars with the titgh fitting seats and the Ford GT, GT1 F40, Muira and Elise - these really were the cars that took the greatest effort to get in and out of and would nt in my mindd be the best daily drivers.

Third, once inside the only cars presenting "luxury' that was noticable were the DB9 and the Bentley Coupe. In all the rest once sitting - I at least was thinging baout the turning braking and access to the controls and view of the instruments.

That was it.. perhaps that because I am driver not a poser - others may feel it nescessary to rub and touch every internal part each time the drive their car :)

[nthfinity]

If you are going to buy a car that you use everyday you dont care if its .5 sec slower around a track cuz of the weight you will also know this when you have actually driven cars....

I seem to recall that the CSL is a full 2 seconds faster even around a tight track like Angelsy...

after driving for quite some time w/out air conditioning, it isn't really a big deal as long as you have ventilation, or a ventilation suit (993 GT1 road car)... then there are the cars that have broken A/C systems that millions don't repair even... its just one less accessory on the belt to remove slight amounts of power. Sure, ac is nice, but not nessisary... radio on the other hand...

I am fully aware that its not 100% needed, but its nice no doubt...and if you are driving normaly its not that nice having the window open and such....:wink:

its not? I love the outdoors, maybe i'm just a bit different to you... it's not like it gets over 100 F more then a couple days a year (literally) even in the hottest and most humid summer days, its not bad.

[tuffguy]

Except that at speed, an open window will create drag, which will slow the car down. So for everyday purposes, such as driving on the fwy and such, your rationale sucks. And seeing how you're in Michigan, it's pretty retarded for you to be talking about Angelsy. Like you go there everyday and drive.

Try being stuck in traffic in real life instead of haulin ass in an article in a magazine, and you'll see how pointless your argument is.

[nthfinity]

Except that at speed, an open window will create drag, which will slow the car down. So for everyday purposes, such as driving on the fwy and such, your rationale sucks. And seeing how you're in Michigan, it's pretty retarded for you to be talking about Angelsy. Like you go there everyday and drive.

Try being stuck in traffic in real life instead of haulin ass in an article in a magazine, and you'll see how pointless your argument is.

ok, suddenly this topic moves this way because of idiototic statements like this.

Are you familiar with T1, and TCC racing? I nearly purchassed a T1 class Z06 last year; but since it was no longer in road trim i forwent the opertunity. The car had NO windows, neither do the TCC cars. What windows do open wheel cars have? I'm unsure about SCCA cars, but i wouldn't be surprised to find no windows.

Next
Open windows create more drag, sure. Have you ever been in a Carrerar GT with the top off? Oh the enjoyment! Yet the car is slower accellerating, and ever so much more chassis flex with the top off. how often are you going to V-max in your car? How long can you "tollerate" the heat when running to V max w/out air conditioning? how long will it take you to reach V max? and lastly, will you be able to reach v-max with the air conditioner on? Does your engine automatically shut off the A/C when you are above 4500 rpm anyway? how long are you running at V max? Are your windows having an option of "only up, or only down" with no option for "a crack" or " 1/2 way" etc. ? Do you have a ventilation system that brings in air to the cockpit? surely at 170 mph, you are getting plenty of fresh air; and you aren't being "slowed down" by the drag created by even partially open windows.

It is nice to see we have some real logical thinkers here; and you are continuing to show your frontal lobe is fully developed LOL.

about Anglesy... It seems that many people trust Tiff's racing skills, and his reviews; seeing as he is the one who drove the M3 and the M3 CSL around the track with the CSL being a full 2 seconds faster (not to mention 25 seconds faster or so around the Nurburgring) I never mentioned I was there, although i do track driving, and tests at Waterford Hills, and Gingerman, and through the woods... but being as there is no CSL here, I'm quoting a reliable source. Where is your source for your refutations? :?: :idea:

Edit:
seeing as I've been stuck in traffic (you obviously dont know I 75, I 94, I 275, I 96, the Lodge fwy, or city traffic) that I sit in, your argument relating to "no-a/c in traffic because you dont sit in traffic "isn't pertinant whatseover.

Being that I read magazines, and drive cars; I develop my own opinions separate to articles often. I also run my own automotive periodical, with issue 2 in the works. you can read issue one here http://www.jabbasworld.net/dload.php?action=file&file_id=1640

[tuffguy]

I absolutely love it when people use extremes to prove their points.

You're using the Carrera GT, which was designed to be topless, to the CSL, which was designed to be driven with the windows up. Flow over the A-pillar and into the cabin is very different than airflow over the windshield, over the cabin, and onto the trunk. And you don't have to be going "Vmax" (I bet you felt really good using that) to experience drag. Even in a normal car, once you reach anything close to fwy speeds, it's more efficient to drive with the AC on than with the windows down.

Running your own periodical (which I was aware of, having read the first 0-60) doesn't mean jack squat. Look at Rosie.

My comment about traffic is actually very pertinent, as the car that you sit in traffic in probably has AC, radio, and is fairly comfortable. As fun as my own car is, it's pretty difficult when not driven hard. And my car is nowhere near as difficult as the CSL. And oh yeah, you might've heard of the 405.

Tiff's skills mean squat, as we're discussing living with the CSL on an everyday basis. That, along with ventilation suiits are completely pointless. You don't put on a ventilation suit everyday. You go track racing as often as I go paintballing.

:twisted:

(That Rosie comment was pretty good, if I do say so myself)

[ViperASR]

its not? I love the outdoors, maybe i'm just a bit different to you... it's not like it gets over 100 F more then a couple days a year (literally) even in the hottest and most humid summer days, its not bad.

Sorry man, but I gotta disagree with that... Living in Florida and having hot as hell summers with a black leather interior, it really sucks when the A/C dosnt work. Your back sweats, and your shirt gets all wet. And so does ur butt :oops: :lol: . Its fun having the windows down as that is what I do most of the time, like 10 mins ago as I was driving back from lunch :) . But the weather was also quite nice and cool. But on a hott summer day, it really sucks to be stuck sitting in traffic sweating... :(

[nthfinity]

I absolutely love it when people use extremes to prove their points.

You're using the Carrera GT, which was designed to be topless, to the CSL, which was designed to be driven with the windows up. Flow over the A-pillar and into the cabin is very different than airflow over the windshield, over the cabin, and onto the trunk. And you don't have to be going "Vmax" (I bet you felt really good using that) to experience drag. Even in a normal car, once you reach anything close to fwy speeds, it's more efficient to drive with the AC on than with the windows down.

Running your own periodical (which I was aware of, having read the first 0-60) doesn't mean jack squat. Look at Rosie.

My comment about traffic is actually very pertinent, as the car that you sit in traffic in probably has AC, radio, and is fairly comfortable. As fun as my own car is, it's pretty difficult when not driven hard. And my car is nowhere near as difficult as the CSL. And oh yeah, you might've heard of the 405.

Tiff's skills mean squat, as we're discussing living with the CSL on an everyday basis. That, along with ventilation suiits are completely pointless. You don't put on a ventilation suit everyday. You go track racing as often as I go paintballing.

:twisted:

(That Rosie comment was pretty good, if I do say so myself)

since this is a sports car we are talking about, where exactly does efficiancy come into play? usually i've experienced less than 1 less mpg at highway speeds. I simply stated that I enjoy the outdoors. This is something that comes down to opinion and is irrifutable. Thanks, goodbye.

congratulations on the 405, see, we are all in traffic, hurray! :roll:

my mention of the ventilation suit is in reference to a street supercar capable of 192 mph, tremendous d/f, and well... it has no operating windows or A/C... and somebody wants that, go figure. :roll:

your rosie comment can be flown right back on you, as you have yet to refute anything I said. Everything mentioned in 0-100 and Back is 100% true facts, minus a few gramatical errors. Or can you prove otherwise? LOL. Rosie in fact can be disproven quite easily, and often. My published work cannot.

So, what car do you drive? How about posting in "what you drive or ride" section?

you can talk all you want about aerodynamics, and what you stated is true, and well.. very elementary. Considering my education background is aerospace engineering, and I've spent time in wind tunnel testing; specifically for reducing drag, and negating lift and downforce on an expirimental vehicle.

yet still, as I said, there is nothing wrong with driving with the windows down at fwy speeds, and that comes towared personal opinion. I know some people who drive with the A/C on, and the windows down durring the warm months. Does that make thier opinion on how they enjoy driving any less valid? No.

as to refering to Vmax, well... as i stated, my background is very phisics orientated ;)

what do you do?



Sorry man, but I gotta disagree with that... Living in Florida and having hot as hell summers with a black leather interior, it really sucks when the A/C dosnt work. Your back sweats, and your shirt gets all wet. And so does ur butt :oops: :lol: . Its fun having the windows down as that is what I do most of the time, like 10 mins ago as I was driving back from lunch :) . But the weather was also quite nice and cool. But on a hott summer day, it really sucks to be stuck sitting in traffic sweating... :(
from a Michigan perspective, and one that is my own, I am not wrong. From your floridian perspective, you need it, and your not wrong. I simply have stated that I am an outdoors guy who enjoys the wind, and nature. There is nothing you can say that will invalidate that :)

[ViperASR]

from a Michigan perspective, and one that is my own, I am not wrong. From your floridian perspective, you need it, and your not wrong. I simply have stated that I am an outdoors guy who enjoys the wind, and nature. There is nothing you can say that will invalidate that Smile

I agree 100%, I love the outdoors and I love the wind in my hair as much as the next car enthusiast, just no when I'm literally sweating my ass off in the Florida heat :lol:

[RC45]

....and those shiny trim pieces...they're REAL aluminium, not just painted plastic like 99% of cars on sale today :D
..you mean like the silver painted plastic in BMW's?

[RC45]

Except that at speed, an open window will create drag, which will slow the car down. So for everyday purposes, such as driving on the fwy and such, your rationale sucks. And seeing how you're in Michigan, it's pretty retarded for you to be talking about Angelsy. Like you go there everyday and drive.

Try being stuck in traffic in real life instead of haulin ass in an article in a magazine, and you'll see how pointless your argument is.

I commute with the windows down... your point?

[sentra_dude]

Ok boys, lets get back on topic. :P

My pick is an early to mid 1990s NSX. I have always been a fan of the NSX, I think it looks great, it is a true sports-car with mid-engine rear-drive, it has a great chassis and engine, it is fairly practical and can be driven everyday, and they are reasonably priced now (~$25,000 to ~$35,000). I know many people have a dislike for the NSX, for any number of reasons, but I don't really give a shit...its an excellent sports-car and one of my personal favorites!

SPORTS CAR

If you wanted a single used sports car what would it be - and why?

The criteria are rather simple:

The car needs to be very fast, turn and stop very well - be reasonably conservative with fuel consumption (as this car is going to be your daily driver - to work and home and the shops.)

While the NSX may not be dragster fast it is quite quick, especially if there are turns and such. Fuel consumption (1992 is quoted as EPA 19/24) is very reasonable. I could easily see myself driving this car daily.


close to the magical 4s 0-60, 180mph topend potential, screaming 1/4 mile, 60-0 in 100ft, 1G+ lateral load ability... you are allowed to modify your used car to reach these levels of performance - but tell us the purchase price + mod amount (be realistc, offer and post actual examples :P)


I am really not all that concerned about going 0-60 in 4 seconds, but FactorX does have quite a nice twin-turbo kit (FX500) for the NSX which brings power up to around 500hp, and makes for a quick car! 8) Price is steep, ~$25,000 I believe, but if you only spend $25,000 on your NSX its not too bad.


The car needs to be able to hold it's own on drives through the countryside and when you take the car to a local race track, turn in decent lap times and even be able to withstand some drag racing abuse.


Many NSX owners track their cars regularly, and some even drag race them... I'm sure a well sorted NSX would have no trouble keeping up on the backroads or the track.


The car needs to be a survivor and be able to turn over 120,000 miles without a problem and reasonably affordable to repair and service

There needs to be enough space inside to take you briefcase and laptop, and a bunch of shopping bags of groceries - but it's used so might not be your only car - bu tneeds to be more practical than a Super 7 ;) :P


Considering there are many NSXs with 100,000+ miles, and some with over 200,000 miles I think this area is covered! :P

Its a bit tight on trunk space, but I think I could manage if I had an NSX.


The car also needs to be a reasonably affordable to insure on a family budget and finally - be affordable to purchase at under $45,000 including mods..

It also must be usable rain or shine - in climates with snow fall, you may assume that you dont need to drive on unplowed roads.

In short - what used sports car is the best bang for the buck - state your reasons and budget you worked with.



I really have no idea about insurance for NSXs, but insurance for young males driving sports-cars is never cheap anyways so what can you do? :bah:

You can certainly drive it in the rain, etc.

I am working with what I feel is a realistic budget, around $25,000. A 1991 or 1992 NSX in nice condition is easily achievable with that budget. Ideally I would like a 1994 or 1995, but too expensive, for now at least.

http://i10.tinypic.com/2j3fuol.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/2zexseb.jpg

[RC45]

^^ Good choice.. with a couple engine mods the NSX can overcome its biggest weakness, lack of power - and already has great allround handling and stopping ability.

I have always been a little bit of a closet NSX fan, but the Honda badged one.. not the snobby Acura version ;)

The one thing that left me wanting more when ever I have driven a stock NSX is it always feels like it is out of breath.

But as yousay - some money poured into the engine compartment would fix that lickety split.

[RC45]

Except that at speed, an open window will create drag, which will slow the car down. So for everyday purposes, such as driving on the fwy and such, your rationale sucks. And seeing how you're in Michigan, it's pretty retarded for you to be talking about Angelsy. Like you go there everyday and drive.

Try being stuck in traffic in real life instead of haulin ass in an article in a magazine, and you'll see how pointless your argument is.

I commute with the windows down... your point?

regarding you, there is no point in talking to as you are far away from being in touch with the real world.... :roll:

And you of course are a perfect shining example of humanity?

[nthfinity]

Quote:

The car needs to be able to hold it's own on drives through the countryside and when you take the car to a local race track, turn in decent lap times and even be able to withstand some drag racing abuse.



Many NSX owners track their cars regularly, and some even drag race them... I'm sure a well sorted NSX would have no trouble keeping up on the backroads or the track.


http://www.nthimage.com/video_dump/NSX_11-5-06_0003.wmv

:)

slow on the highway, fast in the woods ;) "out of breath" is a very accurate description of how the engine feels... like you are never full throttle...

[79TA]

its not? I love the outdoors, maybe i'm just a bit different to you... it's not like it gets over 100 F more then a couple days a year (literally) even in the hottest and most humid summer days, its not bad.

Sorry man, but I gotta disagree with that... Living in Florida and having hot as hell summers with a black leather interior, it really sucks when the A/C dosnt work. Your back sweats, and your shirt gets all wet. And so does ur butt :oops: :lol: . Its fun having the windows down as that is what I do most of the time, like 10 mins ago as I was driving back from lunch :) . But the weather was also quite nice and cool. But on a hott summer day, it really sucks to be stuck sitting in traffic sweating... :(

100 degrees in florida is miserable wheras 100 degrees in CA isn't really that bad. HUMIDITY. My 79 Trans Am has neither power windows or air conditioning (came without them) and I really don't mind a bit.

A note on the DeTomaso Pantera . . . it's a cool car and affordable too. However, the 351's they were equipped with were generally pretty week. An American V8 should be able to spin the wheels from a stand still. A Pantera with a reworked 351 is a different story.

[sameerrao]

Good choice Sentra. The NSX is a superb, practical and yet fun sports car with perhaps the best gearbox in the world - the gears go thru so quickly.

For an "exotic", it is relatively cheap to maintain - the main expenses are the rear tires that last 8000 miles only due to excessive camber built into. There were some issues with the '90 and 91 but I am sure the problems have been fixed by now.

The no-power assist cars had a very precise steering.

The negatives are the lack of power in the lower rev band - more so than the Ferrari 348. Also the engine sounds too Honda-ish till the VTEC starts up - it really sounds F1ish in the 6-8K rpm range.

[pzgren]

I think that a 993 Carrera RS would do just fine :D

you'll never find a 993 RS in good conditions for $45k. i also had an eye on the 993 RS before buying my 996 but the prices of the RS are damn high and won't drop so far...

maybe you'll find a 964 RS for that price or a high mileage 993 Turbo but don't underestimate the runningcosts of a turbo... one of the reasons why i didn't took the turbo.

an M3 would also be an option in this price range, with SMG it's pure fun!

[sentra_dude]

Good choice Sentra. The NSX is a superb, practical and yet fun sports car with perhaps the best gearbox in the world - the gears go thru so quickly.

For an "exotic", it is relatively cheap to maintain - the main expenses are the rear tires that last 8000 miles only due to excessive camber built into. There were some issues with the '90 and 91 but I am sure the problems have been fixed by now.

The no-power assist cars had a very precise steering.

The negatives are the lack of power in the lower rev band - more so than the Ferrari 348. Also the engine sounds too Honda-ish till the VTEC starts up - it really sounds F1ish in the 6-8K rpm range.

Thanks for the input sameer, do you have some experience driving NSXs?

[sameerrao]

I have driven my friend's 91 NSX a couple times. It was quite nice. A couple weeks back we drove both cars back to back.

Ferrari is better than the Acura in:
- Better engine sound across the rev band
- slightly better steering and brake feel
- More torque
- More interior room
- More aggressive design


The Acura is better than the Ferrari in:
- Nicer seats
- 10X better gearbox - it is a joy to shift
- Reliability and total ownership costs
- Easier to drive - can easily lend it to a friend without too much worry
- Can daily drive
- The roof makes it look like an F16 when seen from above 8)

From an experience standpoint the Ferrari was the more exotic of the too but from a performance standpoint they are very similar. The NSX suffers from dual personalities - it is a Honda Accord till the VTEC kicks in and then transforms into a full blooded sportscar :D The Ferrari is a sports car all thru. You dont mistake it with a Fiat or Camry by any means ;)

[silentm]

my choice would be a Lancia Delta Integrale, you can get them quite cheaply from ebay :P though i can't post links yet there is one offer for 4.444eurosSPORTS CAR

If you wanted a single used sports car what would it be - and why?

The criteria are rather simple:

The car needs to be very fast, turn and stop very well - be reasonably conservative with fuel consumption (as this car is going to be your daily driver - to work and home and the shops.)
close to the magical 4s 0-60, 180mph topend potential, screaming 1/4 mile, 60-0 in 100ft, 1G+ lateral load ability... you are allowed to modify your used car to reach these levels of performance - but tell us the purchase price + mod amount (be realistc, offer and post actual examples :P)alright if i could get it tuned properly i think i could easily fir this criteria, i would have a lot of leftover money to spend on modifications :)

The car needs to be able to hold it's own on drives through the countryside and when you take the car to a local race track, turn in decent lap times and even be able to withstand some drag racing abuse.

The car needs to be a survivor and be able to turn over 120,000 miles without a problem and reasonably affordable to repair and servicethe one i saw already had 177k Km on the tach so i guess this can be done too.

There needs to be enough space inside to take you briefcase and laptop, and a bunch of shopping bags of groceries - but it's used so might not be your only car - bu tneeds to be more practical than a Super 7 ;) :P

The car also needs to be a reasonably affordable to insure on a family budget and finally - be affordable to purchase at under $45,000 including mods.. the space isn't a problem, it's a 4 door hatch and rather roomy.

insureance would probably be really tough for my 19 years of age here in germany and then such a powerful car... i hope that could be manageable :)

It also must be usable rain or shine - in climates with snow fall, you may assume that you dont need to drive on unplowed roads. easy ;) i think i would like to experience some rallying with this bucket :D

so if any1 could give some extra input here it would be greatly appreciated :D

[silentm]

[ironic mode on]And for 4,000€... and from eBay - this car promises to be good![/ironic mode off] :mrgreen:haha yeah i figure something MUST be wrong with that model ;)

ok well too bad they aren't that reliable, they do look very nice imo 8)

[tuffguy]

So, what car do you drive? How about posting in "what you drive or ride" section?
Check the sig.
as i stated, my background is very phisics orientated
Mine's electrical engineering. We have a bit more common sense than you guys.

I see plenty of Lambos, Ferraris, Astons, SLRs, even a Carrera GT. Do you know how many drive with the windows down? NONE. How many of those have no radio? NONE.

[RC45]

I see plenty of Lambos, Ferraris, Astons, SLRs, even a Carrera GT. Do you know how many drive with the windows down? NONE. How many of those have no radio? NONE.

Hhmm.. if I ma not mistaken everytime I have been on the track, as an example - everyones windows have been rolled down. :P

[Mattk]

But if we're talking daily driver, here, things like stereo systems and air conditioning would make life a bit more comfortable.