View Full Version : Autozeitung: Porsche 997 GT3 RS vs Corvette Z06
Just_me
01-12-2007, 05:05 AM
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33099_300.jpg
Complete translated article:
TRACK test Corvette Z06 against Porsche 911 GT3 R-S
Both place the basis for a racing car, and the Corvette Z06 and the new Porsche nevertheless separate 911 GT3 R-S worlds. Running professional Kurt Thiim tests both on the Formel-1-Kurs in Hockenheim
Red-Green the couple draws each attention in the nearly deserted driver camp of the Hockenheim ring on itself. „That the hardest examination for the Corvette “, prophesied ex-DTM-professional Kurt Thiim. And it is right.
The potent US hammer is compromiseless built: small weight owing to a chassis from aluminum and carbon fiber composite materials, bear-strongly owing to the largest Small-Block-V8, the general of engine built ever, and drehzahlfest owing to titanium piston rods, sodium-filled titanium intake valves and aluminum flat-topped pistons. Only the valve gear is still made by a central arranged cam shaft. 512 HP as well as 637 Newtonmeters torque speak a clear language, the maximum speed of 320 km/h likewise. In the end still the Sahnehäubchen: The weight per horsepower of the Z06 is with only 2.8 kg/PS. That should be enough, in order to frighten each Porsche, or?
But: On a good round time also things decide such as brake performance and driving stability in the frontier. And here in the comparison to the flat, broad Corvette nearly delicate 911 GT3 R-S set, weight per horsepower: 3,3 kg/PS. And the R-S models show already since 1972, what is possible in puncto driving dynamics with one to road-certified for car.
Newest R-S is there no exception. Again 20 Kilos more easily than the normal GT3 and equipped with an adjustable chassis, optimized aerodynamics as well as finest Racing attributes, he start, in order to control the sports car world.
The hoarse barking 3,6-Liter-Boxer in the tail has not only just as exclusive Innereien now as the GM-V8, but also over an a mass flywheel, which saves eight Kilos opposite the conventional flywheel. „The engine reacted thereby very spritzig, turns phänomenal fast highly “, describes to Thiim the effects, „at all, the Porsche is actually a racing car, you notices it immediately at the clutch counter-pressure or also at the high switching forces. And if you drive off in the morning, it cracks here and there, Laufgeräusche comes from the drive strand. You experience the same, if you roll with a cold racing car from the box lane on the runway - wonderful. “
In relation to achievement disadvantage the Corvette - 415 to 512 HP - the GT3 R-S with its chassis and the standard Michelin Semi Slicks wants to than only compensate more. The Goodyear Runflatreifen of the Ami is there rather a everyday life-suited solution.
Thiim decides after two sample rounds with the two cars as the first for the Z06: „The conversion between the two cars is giant-largely, thus around falls it however somewhat more easily. “The Dane does without any electronic support. Thus he selects the attitude „ASR and active handling out “in the cockpit display. After short approach the V8 bollert over the start/goal straight line. With 204 km/h Thiim throws the anchor before the north curve and switches down.
Becomes clear already here: „You must leave yourself time when switching, otherwise it cracks in the transmission. The operating paths are clearly longer and not like that exactly defined as in the Porsche. “The second characteristic of the Corvette becomes clear in the next right curve before the long Parabolika: Of 211 km/h Thiim must down up to 58 things, to give in and on as early an accelerating as possible concentrate at the same time. „All no problem, but in the seats of the Corvette I find too little stop to technical and slip partly somewhat helplessly around “, say Thiim later.
But which after the slide portion follows, fascinates the Dane: „The Drehmomentkick and this Beschleunigungsorgie up to the pointed turn place simply everything into the shade. “251 km/h the government inspection department measuring instrument indicates at the point of applying brakes gently, to only 44 km/h stands the close right curve - maximum permissible load for all vehicle components. „The car remains very stable with these hard brakings. But the tires are overtaxed on the racing course and lubricate. The handling loses thereby at precision. “
Again the Z06 start, as if would be the devil behind it ago. The large V8 has easy play with the unloaded weight of 1440 kilograms. In the gentle right break before the Mercedes grandstand Thiim must briefly of the gas and loses speed. Also the following sector into and by the Kurvengeschlängel of the Motodrom becomes probably never the favourite playground of the Corvette. Thiim: „You must force yourself in curves again and again to the peace, give the car time to stabilize. Only so you can use the whole power.
The body movements are more pronounced in the comparison to the Porsche and want to be taken into account. “Accordingly the applying brakes gently speeds are very highly, the curve speeds however rather average. Only the outward easily superelevated special curve facilitates it the Corvette a little. The drift with 97 km/h at the entrance to starting/goal straight lines is hardly to be avoided. Few seconds later Kurt Thiim with 187 km/h rushes by the light barrier. Its total time: 1.57, 90 minutes
The racing professional rises directly over into the Porsche and squeezes themselves into the bowl seat. The electronic PASM chassis pressed on hard posed, those sport key for still more spontaneous responding of the engine and traction control deactivates - it can loose-go. Hoarse roaring the GT3 R-S hunts on the north curve to and brakes clearly later than the Corvette. However it is here also nine km/h more slowly than the Z06.
The same play before the next curve: very late and hard applying brakes gently into the curve inside, then just as early accelerating. Here the class of the chassis and the tire show up. The rate of turn is appropriate for ten km/h more highly than with the Corvette. Then the pointed turn, Thiim follows applies brakes gently with 241 km/h, thus ten km/h lose on the US sportsman. But: The brake point lies stately 23 meters later, that is nearly five vehicle lengths.
Thiim in addition: „Nevertheless, in order to realize a time advantage with the Porsche, you must drive and the engine out crimpings very exactly. But for it this car is exactly built. Giving in behavior and driving stability are simply great. “Where it had to almost give full power in the Corvette carefully to act, can it in the Porsche. And it must it also, because up to applying brakes gently before the Mercedes grandstand the Corvette lies still in front with 0.87 seconds projection/lead. „You can take the entrance into the Motodrom in the Porsche nearly fully. There the new aerodynamics of R-S already plays a large role “, says Thiim.
Now the running driver plays his decades of experience out and flogs the Elfer by the curves. In the last sector it actually gets a projection/lead of 1.23 seconds raus and crosses after 1.57, 44 minutes the goal line, knappe five tenth ofs a second in former times as with the Corvette. Thiim rolls abgekämpft into the box lane: „If you so a Porsche to buy want to be, must you a Racer. Otherwise the outstanding driving experience is opened for you never. The GT3 R-S is not a toy. “
Result
“The test was a large surprise for me. We have here two completely different sports car concepts, which can be moved as expected also completely differently. On the side with the Corvette Z06 a genuine Powercar from the USA with 7,0 litres capacity to the asking price. On the other side a racing car with road permission. The Porsche 911 GT3 R-S as something else to designate, would be missed. During the series tyre the two separate worlds likewise. Everyday life-suited Runflat tires on the V8-Monster, Semi Slicks on the finely balanced racer. And which happens? The two separate only five tenth ofs a second at the end. The Porsche makes exactly what you want. The Corvette presses as wildly forward. But you can convert Kraft many more badly, because you must constantly fight. You need in the Corvette also more courage than in the Porsche, it come even in the fourth course still crosswise. If you could bring these Kraft on the bitumen - Semi Slicks does not give it for the Z06 to time yet -, then it were a genuine monster. The Porsche is that absolutely rounds and snaps total package.”
Z06
Laptime: 1,57.90 min
GT3 RS
Laptime: 1,57.44 min
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33105_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33109_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33125_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33133_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33137_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33141_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33149_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33169_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33177_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33185_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33193_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33197_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33205_1024.jpg
http://autozeitung.de/online/bildDB/33209_1024.jpg
TopGearNL
01-12-2007, 05:24 AM
This is a test for me, 2 of my fav cars :D !
Thanks so much!
The Vette is fast round a track :shock:
RC you the man! You've always said so!
Ghostbat
01-12-2007, 07:02 AM
What's up with the Z06:s drivers seat? Looks like it's from a couple of years old car. Well Who cares, two awesome cars with breathtaking performance. I know many of you seem to like that green porsche color but I think it's just hideous. But really, who cares..
dutchmasterflex
01-12-2007, 10:17 AM
Nice review, even though its translated from German to English..Finally someone compares the Z06 to it's correct rival..
The Z06 wouldnt even need to be "stripped out" to beat this RS, just a pair of semi-slick tires and I'm sure it would whoop the Porsche.
Great photos too! Thanks Just_Me
cooperluke
01-12-2007, 11:48 AM
Very impressite Vette... but still, would prefer the Porsche..
It's faster around the corners, and that's what makes it more driver focused... unless I'm on a race, I don't care if he looses on the straights!! :D
And the interior of the Porsche is waaaay more in "the spirit", the wheel, the bucket seats... :D But... would take it in white or orange. Not green...
ViperASR
01-12-2007, 12:32 PM
That Z06 impresses me more and more everyday
z06 is somewhat stripped out C6, there is not so much to loose more and to be a street car.
In the new EVO there is a lingenfelter z06, missing a few ponies but still impressively fast, compared to 599 too that is the ultimate GT car at the moment.
5vz-fe
01-12-2007, 03:26 PM
The result will be reversed if both are wearing the same tires. Great article Just_me, thanks alot!
dutchmasterflex
01-12-2007, 03:47 PM
Very impressite Vette... but still, would prefer the Porsche..
It's faster around the corners, and that's what makes it more driver focused... unless I'm on a race, I don't care if he looses on the straights!! :D
And the interior of the Porsche is waaaay more in "the spirit", the wheel, the bucket seats... :D But... would take it in white or orange. Not green...
the Corvette would be just as fast, possibly even faster in the corners if it had semi slicks too ;)
Actually - other than only being available with a 6-speed, the Z06 is NOT stripped out compared to other Corvettes by any means.
A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS would be outlapping the CGT and Enzo.. ;)
It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver when compared to the competition - You can get 2 full size golf bags and a couple of piese of luggage int eh Vette - so youcan use the car on Sunday at the race track, Monday and Tuesday for client meetings - then take that senator you are trying to bribe out to golf on Wednrsday - take the day off Thursday for a country drive - Friday take the mistress to the moveis, and Saturday take the wife to the opera...
All in the same car... :)
That is the beauty of the Z06. And this has been true since the car was launched as a 2001 model when compared to it's competition ;)
Of course compared to Veyron it is a plastuic piece of shit.. but if you are poor slob - the Z06 is the car to have ;)
philip
01-12-2007, 11:58 PM
Hey thank you for that post.
Is the GT3 RS going to be available in the US?
Otherwise the comparison could never happen over here. From what I gathered the Corvette was running on street tires and the GT3RS was on racing tires and the times were very close. That really says alot for the Porsche to make up the 100hp disadvantage.
I'm figuring the GT3RS will be $150,000 by the time it reaches this side of the pond, where as the Z06 is only $70,000 or so.
By the time these cars are five years old, I might be able to afford the Z06.
Something to look forward to.
Super post thanks for translating the article.
tforth
01-13-2007, 12:22 AM
A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS
According to Porsche's German site, the base Carrera is 1395 kg, and the GT3 RS is 1375 kg (i.e. a difference of 20 kg - compared to the 100 kg difference on the vette that you're suggesting). The GT3 RS is not 'stripped out'. What ever weight was removed, was replaced with things like a cage, rear wing, fire extinguisher, etc. to make it better suited for track work. In other words, it was engineered for it's intended application, not just stripped out by some 'tuners'.
Furthermore, Porsche didn't switch from a steal to an aluminum chassis like the vette designers did. In addition, for what it's worth, Porsche will make money on every GT3 RS they sell, whereas GM might as well fill those golf bags with cash, in the back of every Z06 they manage to sell...
A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS would be outlapping the CGT and Enzo..
Well evo timed the CGT around their Bedford circuit originally at a 1:19.70, whereas the Z06 came in at 1:24.45. So, I think you're dreaming.
A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS
According to Porsche's German site, the base Carrera is 1395 kg, and the GT3 RS is 1375 kg (i.e. a difference of 20 kg - compared to the 100 kg difference on the vette that you're suggesting). The GT3 RS is not 'stripped out'. What ever weight was removed, was replaced with things like a cage, rear wing, fire extinguisher, etc. to make it better suited for track work. In other words, it was engineered for it's intended application, not just stripped out by some 'tuners'.
Have you ever been in and or around an RS setup Porsche? For that matter have you ever been in and around a plain-jane GT3?
The car is quite more agressively set up and tuned than the run of the mill 911 or even the Turbo. And if youwere an objective commentator youwould acknowledge this.
You have an obvious bias - because as you pointed out the RS was purpose built for the track, and barely beats the 100% street car, run-flat tyred Z06 - yet you refuse to acknowledge this means something.
Oh - and before you get all hot and sweaty about me being a Porsche hater, far from it - I am a Porsche lover and have been in and around a number of rather special Porsches and apreciate them for what they are - and while some are suited to be fantastic comfy daily drivers - the GT3-RS is not.
Furthermore, Porsche didn't switch from a steal to an aluminum chassis like the vette designers did. In addition, for what it's worth, Porsche will make money on every GT3 RS they sell, whereas GM might as well fill those golf bags with cash, in the back of every Z06 they manage to sell...
What exactly is your point?
GM sells every Corvette they produce... The same way Porsche sell all the 911 they produce.
A "stripped out" Z06 would be 100kg's lighter and if built with the same razor edge of the GT3-RS would be outlapping the CGT and Enzo..
Well evo timed the CGT around their Bedford circuit originally at a 1:19.70, whereas the Z06 came in at 1:24.45. So, I think you're dreaming.
Are you always this slow? I stated "if the car was stripped out, 100kgs lighter and built with the same razors edge as the GT3-RS" - I never claimed the current setup will do it.
I have to conclude wome people are first class magazine racers and little else - ands it is not possible to cinduct an adult discussion vizaviz performance cars because al they can do is show bias and argumentive responses.
Just give credit where credit is due for God's sake and move on.
Hey thank you for that post.
Is the GT3 RS going to be available in the US?
Otherwise the comparison could never happen over here. From what I gathered the Corvette was running on street tires and the GT3RS was on racing tires and the times were very close. That really says alot for the Porsche to make up the 100hp disadvantage.
I'm figuring the GT3RS will be $150,000 by the time it reaches this side of the pond, where as the Z06 is only $70,000 or so.
By the time these cars are five years old, I might be able to afford the Z06.
Something to look forward to.
Super post thanks for translating the article.
Yes the GT3-RS is coming to the USA, and at 2 will be in Houston in a month or so.. expect an indepth PhotoShoot.
sameerrao
01-13-2007, 10:12 AM
Considering that the Porsche had semi-slick tires which could give an advantage of 1-2 seconds, the Vette's time is really good.
martin100
01-13-2007, 01:10 PM
Of course compared to Veyron it is a plastuic piece of shit.. but if you are poor slob - the Z06 is the car to have ;)
Exactly :wink:
TopGearNL
01-13-2007, 01:43 PM
The Zo6 is beginning to completely win me over (also due to RC for the biggest part!) :mrgreen:
philip
01-13-2007, 03:43 PM
So where might someone in Houston see the two RS's. I might like to see new the car I will be buying in 10 years. In that time I might even grow to like the lime green color.
novass
01-13-2007, 08:19 PM
Nice article and great pics! I would love to see those two cars in my garage, but I want the Z06 in black with black wheels and black interior and the GT3RS in orange/black.
tforth
01-14-2007, 12:59 AM
Have you ever been in and or around an RS setup Porsche? For that matter have you ever been in and around a plain-jane GT3?
Yes I have, although not a 997 GT3/RS, as I actually did a work term in Weissach, and as such managed to get on the track on numerous occasions, with several different 911s.
You have an obvious bias
Are you the pot here, or the kettle?
Oh - and before you get all hot and sweaty about me being a Porsche hater
No, you have made it abundantly clear that you are, among other things, a Veyron hater. I guess you can draw more of a crowd with this moniker, as it seems that there are many in this camp. I can only assume you don't speak out against Porsches, because they have a very large fan base among 'true' car enthusiasts. I do find it kind of strange that you claim to like both vettes and Porsches though, as they are at pretty much opposite end of the spectrum in most regards.
What exactly is your point?
GM sells every Corvette they produce... The same way Porsche sell all the 911 they produce.
Interesting this, as just a couple of weeks ago I saw an add in the Globe and Mail for a Chevy dealer just outside Toronto (Colonial @888-286-0914), where they had advertised (among other 'old' new vettes) a 'new' 2005 Z06 Black/Black for 'must sell' CDN$89 000, with a MSRP of CDN 102 000. I can't remember seeing any potentially 2 year old (new) 911s listed in the paper. Furthermore, my point is not whether GM has difficulties moving Z06s or not, which they appear to, now that you mention this, but rather that it (as is the case with the Ford GT, Viper, NSX, etc., etc.) is a loss leader for them. So, when people keep going on about how cheap the Z06 is, they are not considering how much GM is subsidizing the car, just like VW has done with the Veyron (there, I have just provided some amo for you).
On the other hand, Wendelin Wiedeking, has made it quite clear from the outset, that all Porsche models will only be commissioned, if they can make a profit on their own (this even included the CGT).
Just give credit where credit is due for God's sake and move on.
The 'credit' that you refer to is that 'Auto Zeitung', which has to be one of the cheesiest German magazines (I know, because I have been reading ams since 1986, as well as sport auto over the past 10 years or so) quoted similar times for both cars. For me the only credible and somewhat telling info listed in the article, is that even with a racing driver at the helm, the Z06 was simply a 'point and shoot' car. In other words it was very fast down the straights (what an accomplishment with a 7.0L vs. a 3.6L engine in similar weight vehicles), and very slow and edgy through the corners. Even with track rubber, I can only assume that this contrast would only be reduced and not changed in its favour.
Considering this fact, isn't it funny how you accused the Veyron of being this kind of vehicle, eh?
philip
01-14-2007, 03:43 AM
I like Porsches and Corvettes. I currently own and drive both. I intend to some day have both a Z06 and a GT3RS. I cheer for both at Le Mans and here in Houston. They are as different now, as they were in the 1960's. One is fibreglass the other steel one front engined the other rear. One made in the US the other in Germany. Brute force vs finesse its always been that way, I hope it never changes.
The Veyron is still too new for me. It doesn't race yet.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3632/bugattismalldsc03086xg2.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugattismalldsc03086xg2.jpg)
From the Concorso Italiano in Monterey 2006
It competes to me with the F1 and the Enzo, its really way beyond my league, if I had to pick between the three, it would be the F1.
For me the only credible and somewhat telling info listed in the article, is that even with a racing driver at the helm, the Z06 was simply a 'point and shoot' car.
What little crediblity you had is shot to hell with this very pointed statement - the same race driver in one of the hardest edged and most purposeful designed "race cars" in street trim, the GT3-RS barely edged away from the pure-street, daily driver, run-flat tyred, Z06.
By your ramblings, it is almost as if the closest you have ever been to a high powered sports car is reading magazines in the toilet - because if you had any practical experience you would know that the time seperating these two (and every other 3200lb/500hp car) is so small and dependant on the day/conditions/driver - and that either of these car is so brutal and fast it would make you piss in your pants in a heart beat.
In other words it was very fast down the straights (what an accomplishment with a 7.0L vs. a 3.6L engine in similar weight vehicles), and very slow and edgy through the corners. Even with track rubber, I can only assume that this contrast would only be reduced and not changed in its favour.
Again - do you not get the point - the GT3-RS is specifically and radically tune in the suspension department to feel, run and gun like a dedictaed race car - and it is to be expected to hadnle the way it does, the fact the test showed the race rubber car vs the street tyre car was so close is actually all the prrof yo uneed - the Z06 is not a "point and shoot PS3 console" far from it.
Considering this fact, isn't it funny how you accused the Veyron of being this kind of vehicle, eh?
There is no coparison - the Veyron cannot be operate dby a human without all the aids turned on.. making it a point and shoot car.
BTW - I would love to knowm have you ever piloted a car/bike in anger aorund a closed course? Because your reasoing seems to point towards someoen who hasn't - and thus thinks in terms of magazine stats and hearsay with regard to car performance.
I have to just wonder - really.
tforth
01-14-2007, 05:26 PM
What little crediblity you had is shot to hell with this very pointed statement - the same race driver in one of the hardest edged and most purposeful designed "race cars" in street trim, the GT3-RS barely edged away from the pure-street, daily driver, run-flat tyred, Z06.
The 'credit' that you refer to is that 'Auto Zeitung', which has to be one of the cheesiest German magazines (I know, because I have been reading ams since 1986, as well as sport auto over the past 10 years or so) quoted similar times for both cars.
By your ramblings, it is almost as if the closest you have ever been to a high powered sports car is reading magazines in the toilet - because if you had any practical experience you would know that the time seperating these two (and every other 3200lb/500hp car) is so small and dependant on the day/conditions/driver - and that either of these car is so brutal and fast it would make you piss in your pants in a heart beat.
How far you are from the truth. Although I do not claim to get as much track time as I would like (usually only 2/year), every car I have driven over the past 10 years has been modified extensively (including dedicated track wheels & tires) for track work. Furthermore, I don't call parking lots tracks. A track is an actual road course, with some element of danger, otherwise what's the difference between it and a PS2 game? Most recently, I did an event at Mosport last fall, and it was everything I had expected. Have you even heard of Mosport? Oh, and I have also been around the Nurburgring, although it was back in 1986, so I wasn't driving at the time; have you?
Again - do you not get the point - the GT3-RS is specifically and radically tune in the suspension department to feel, run and gun like a dedictaed race car - and it is to be expected to hadnle the way it does, the fact the test showed the race rubber car vs the street tyre car was so close is actually all the prrof yo uneed - the Z06 is not a "point and shoot PS3 console" far from it.
Interesting, as evo stated (when describing the Z06) in their December 2007 Car of the Year issue, where the outcome was 1st 599 GTB, 2nd 997GT3, 3rd LP 640 and 4th Z06:
"If it were built by Porsche it would wear an RS badge and command twice the asking price"
I would agree that this statement is a bit of stretch, especially considering the rubber, but clearly people that have driven it don't consider it to be quite the daily 'beater' that you make it seem, unlike the GT3 which at least has PASM (on the 997) and sat nav. Most of the American magazines which have compared it against it's peers have also stated that it is a pretty focused device and tricky at the limit, as has Jeremy Clarkson, for whatever that's worth.
There is no coparison - the Veyron cannot be operate dby a human without all the aids turned on..
You're missing the point; it's a GT - that's they way it will be driven by the people who can actually afford it.
and thus thinks in terms of magazine stats and hearsay with regard to car performance.
Wow, I guess this is a good example of perspective, and how you seem to lack it. I am educated in the area of science which helps me understand why cars do what they do. I also drive very enthusiastically when ever the opportunity arises, including on real tracks. I have met many people at track events or otherwise, who think that they know a lot about cars, but can't tell you what the difference is between under and oversteer (and some of them weren't even that slow on track).
Realistically, very few people are afforded the opportunity to drive as many different high performance cars, in anger/on track, etc. as some of the magazine writers can. What they state is up for public scrutiny by a very wide audience, it is not hearsay. That's why some of them develope a corresponding good/bad reputation, like Auto Zeitung. Can you even read German, or did you just rely on what this guy wrote anyway?
Interesting, as evo stated (when describing the Z06) in their December 2007 Car of the Year issue, where the outcome was 1st 599 GTB, 2nd 997GT3, 3rd LP 640 and 4th Z06:
"If it were built by Porsche it would wear an RS badge and command twice the asking price"
Well - look at what they compare it to.
But they are speaking absolute tripe.
The C6 Z06 is not even close to the razors edge a GT3 is.... it is a great all rounder with space and comfort to spare - which makes it a fantastic daily driver considering the great gas milage it gets.
I would agree that this statement is a bit of stretch, especially considering the rubber, but clearly people that have driven it don't consider it to be quite the daily 'beater' that you make it seem, unlike the GT3 which at least has PASM (on the 997) and sat nav. Most of the American magazines which have compared it against it's peers have also stated that it is a pretty focused device and tricky at the limit, as has Jeremy Clarkson, for whatever that's worth.
This statement is so full of carp it is hard to not vomit on the spot.
Are you suggesting the Z06 has no stability management or SAT NAv?
And exactly what cars has the Z06 been compared to? I am imagining each of those is quite focused as well.
There is no coparison - the Veyron cannot be operate dby a human without all the aids turned on..
You're missing the point; it's a GT - that's they way it will be driven by the people who can actually afford it.
In other words the 1000hp is pointless without the elctronic aids and the car is no where the "sports' car every one makes it out to be... uhm - thats exactly what we say about it.
Wow, I guess this is a good example of perspective, and how you seem to lack it. I am educated in the area of science which helps me understand why cars do what they do. I also drive very enthusiastically when ever the opportunity arises, including on real tracks. I have met many people at track events or otherwise, who think that they know a lot about cars, but can't tell you what the difference is between under and oversteer (and some of them weren't even that slow on track).
Realistically, very few people are afforded the opportunity to drive as many different high performance cars, in anger/on track, etc. as some of the magazine writers can. What they state is up for public scrutiny by a very wide audience, it is not hearsay. That's why some of them develope a corresponding good/bad reputation, like Auto Zeitung. Can you even read German, or did you just rely on what this guy wrote anyway?
So you basically take magazine hearsay as gospel.
tforth
01-15-2007, 12:56 AM
So you basically take magazine hearsay as gospel.
No, I take the general consensus of British mags ('Autocar', 'evo' and sometimes 'car') and German ('sport auto' and 'auto motor und sport'), along with the male reviews performed on 5th gear, and some Best Motoring shows as a pretty good indicator of how high-end cars perform comparatively.
Regarding the Z06 in general, I would say it represents an excellent price/performance buy. However, if you can afford more, there are much better and better engineered vehicles out there. They also don't feel like they're put together like a $20 000 American car is.
We actually did some development work on a C6 Z06, and although I didn't drive it myself (this particular program was not my responsibility), one of the guys who did (who has driven everything from his Cayman S to a single turbo 935 and a 993 GT2 evo on Mosport) said that it was really fast, but was pretty hairy at the limit. He also said it felt like a piece of junk. He was actually considering it before he bought his Cayman S (same kind of money). He has not looked back at his decision since...
So, in a nut shell, if you like doing stop light drags on a budget, or only drive on relatively smooth tracks, it would make a good choice. On the other hand, that line you mentioned about taking it to the Theater or something, is ridiculous. Corvettes have never been considered in good taste among the 'old money folk'. They have always been an example of the 'brute force' approach. Although, I will admit that the C6 Z06 has been as close to a properly engineered car as they have ever come, and if they would just work on the suspension and fit/finish quality, they would have a genuine contender!
well aside from the little debate we have going on here, thanks for the read and the translation. but personally i would perfer an Evolution to these cars. for the simple fact that it can "hang" with these guys and carry two more doors.
So you basically take magazine hearsay as gospel.
No, I take the general consensus of British mags ('Autocar', 'evo' and sometimes 'car') and German ('sport auto' and 'auto motor und sport'), along with the male reviews performed on 5th gear, and some Best Motoring shows as a pretty good indicator of how high-end cars perform comparatively.
Oh - so you are a magazine racer.
Enough said.
Regarding the Z06 in general, I would say it represents an excellent price/performance buy. However, if you can afford more, there are much better and better engineered vehicles out there. They also don't feel like they're put together like a $20 000 American car is.
Christ - have you ever driven one? Or any of its competitors? Because you are completely full of shit if you say "it feels like a $20,000 American car".
Absolutely full of shit. HAving spent an entire day in a Ruf RT12 I can tell you it felt no different than a C6 Z06 - other than being faster.
The same is true for the other competitors.
To say otherwise porove the bias you display.
We actually did some development work on a C6 Z06, and although I didn't drive it myself
Oh - so you haven't driven one. What a surprise.. :roll:
(this particular program was not my responsibility), one of the guys who did (who has driven everything from his Cayman S to a single turbo 935 and a 993 GT2 evo on Mosport) said that it was really fast, but was pretty hairy at the limit.
And a 993 GT2 wasn't? Yet another biased load of crap.
He also said it felt like a piece of junk.
Again - what a crock of shit - It felt like a peice of junk? Ha --- again, the car feels no different to it's competitors.. I am amaqzed at the utter tripe people like yourself spew forth.
"Cortvette is kaka.. Porsche is uber..." :roll:
He was actually considering it before he bought his Cayman S (same kind of money).
Ibet he gets lots of looks from the other pooftas at Starbucks..
He has not looked back at his decision since...
I should imagine not - it's a nice medium performing medium paced car - ideal for the poser.
What a crock of shit - He was cross shopping a Cayman and Z06.. uhm - the car's are in the same price range - but - uhm - not market competitors.. the mere fact you and he seem to think they are "competirots" is rather telling.
He may as wlel have bought a Boxster or S2000 or better yet an Audi TT.
So, in a nut shell, if you like doing stop light drags on a budget, or only drive on relatively smooth tracks, it would make a good choice.
Again with a very ill-informed biased load of tripe.
$70,000 stoplights on a budget? Or short smooth tracks? WTF? You have NO IDEA what you are rambling about.
On the other hand, that line you mentioned about taking it to the Theater or something, is ridiculous.
Shut the fuck up already with your crap.
[ Corvettes have never been considered in good taste among the 'old money folk'.
Old money
WTF are youon about old fucking money?
WTF does "old money" havce to do with a sports car?
You are a freaking poser through and through.
They have always been an example of the 'brute force' approach. Although, I will admit that the C6 Z06 has been as close to a properly engineered car as they have ever come, and if they would just work on the suspension
Yeha - because the stock suspension is only good for 7m43s at the Nurbirgring.. :roll:
Jesus you are one biased ill informed mutha fucker.. and I am holding back on that one :)
and fit/finish quality, they would have a genuine contender!
Fuck - all you fit and finish people are so quick to mouth off - but put 7 modern cars next to each other and ask you to quanitfy this "fit and finish" and you come up with no answer.
I am amazed that for a so called knowledgable folks can continue to spew such drivel.
:roll:
well aside from the little debate we have going on here, thanks for the read and the translation. but personally i would perfer an Evolution to these cars. for the simple fact that it can "hang" with these guys and carry two more doors.
At least youstate your opinion as that - an opinion and move on.. ;)
Unlike some of our more ill-informed members that seem to think you are either "for" or "against" any cars - he refuses to believe that people can actually like, enjoy and have fun with more than one make of car - and give credit to each that deserve it.
I guess some people just "believe" their opinion to be fact.
novass
01-15-2007, 03:01 AM
Corvettes have never been considered in good taste among the 'old money folk'.
I dont really want to get involved in this little debate, but that comment is pretty funny. You would be surprised at the amount of people here in the States that are avid Corvette collectors. It is a popular brand from the first gen to the present, so I wouldnt be so sure that the old money folk dont like them.
Personally, I like the Z06 and the GT3RS. Which one would I buy? I dont know, give me 60+ grand and I will let you know. I do like that I have a choice though. Even if I dont like a particular car, I am still glad its out there. It would suck if I had 50gs and went to buy a car and my choices were between a M3, a M3 and a M3. Even if I wanted the M3, its nice to know there are other options and that those options get the job done in different ways.
Just_me
01-15-2007, 04:04 AM
I just have one little thing I want to add in this angry little debate. I only have one complaint regarding Z06 and its the gearbox, its not smooth and its also a little tardy compared to the germans. Oh and one more thing, I would like the seats to attach the body better, they are too flat for active driving.
Other than these things the Z06 is a very attractive car for the money.
well aside from the little debate we have going on here, thanks for the read and the translation. but personally i would perfer an Evolution to these cars. for the simple fact that it can "hang" with these guys and carry two more doors.
At least youstate your opinion as that - an opinion and move on.. ;)
Unlike some of our more ill-informed members that seem to think you are either "for" or "against" any cars - he refuses to believe that people can actually like, enjoy and have fun with more than one make of car - and give credit to each that deserve it.
I guess some people just "believe" their opinion to be fact.
yeah RC likes me :P but you right i find it hard to believe how fan boys can not understand that there are other cars out there just as good or better.
yeah RC likes me :P but you right i find it hard to believe how fan boys can not understand that there are other cars out there just as good or better.
Well RC might be the biggest fan boy ever.... :wink:
them sound like fight'n words
philip
01-15-2007, 03:15 PM
My neighbor bought a new ZO6, his only complaint is he did not order the extra sound dampening. He has now bought the kit from the dealer and has installed it himself. He now has no complaints, he loves the car along with the others he has including a 2003 Porshe Turbo, an M5 Dinnan stage 3, M3 Dinnan stage whatever and a Buick Grand National. He drives the Corvette and the BMW's. I'm hoping to photo his "collection" some time for y'all.
The only problem I see with the GT3RS and the new ZO6 now is that the BlueDevil Stingray is comming out and Porsche will figure out something new to do, the used car price will decline. Thats what I am counting on, which helps me in my 5 and 10 year plan.
yeah RC likes me :P but you right i find it hard to believe how fan boys can not understand that there are other cars out there just as good or better.
Well RC might be the biggest fan boy ever.... :wink:
them sound like fight'n words
Nah I just say what most on here are thinking....
The point being just because you or anyone elses "thinks" it - doesn't make it so.
By definition a fanboy will support one only, to the detriment of all others.. which is so far from the truth it is laughable.
If only you (and the "rest") knew just how far and wide my sphere of interest and enjoyment goes vizaviz cars... but you don't care to know so I don't care to share it - as an example, I have given up sharing my 'What You Saw Today" portfolios... and trust me, they include some hot stuff :P
The reality is that unlike "the rest" I don't accept all the bogus "opinions' as fact.
Just because you say it doesnt make it an fact RC,
Actually - if what I am saying is fact, then it is fact - whether I or anyone else says it.
I think its great that you are such an over the top vette fan RC it makes for good fun.... :wink:
I will defend anything that has lies and mis-truths told about it..
tforth
01-16-2007, 01:50 AM
Oh - so you are a magazine racer.
Enough said.
Please remind me, what exactly is the title of this thread?
Christ - have you ever driven one? Or any of its competitors? Because you are completely full of shit if you say "it feels like a $20,000 American car".
I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior. I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.
To say otherwise porove the bias you display.
I am the one displaying a bias here - hmmm. I do not own a Veyron or a Porsche, so where exactly is my vested interest? If I'm not mistaken, you own a C5 Z06, right?...
And a 993 GT2 wasn't? Yet another biased load of crap.
Huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT2 (see 993 GT2 evo)
Ibet he gets lots of looks from the other pooftas at Starbucks..
it's a nice medium performing medium paced car - ideal for the poser.
So, Porsches are for posers and it's the corvettes that are driven by the real men? I thought you said that I was the biased one here? BTW, the last time I saw a statistic on them (in Automotive Industries - I know, another magazine...), over 80% of corvettes were sold with automatic transmissions. What exactly does that say?
What a crock of shit - He was cross shopping a Cayman and Z06.. uhm - the car's are in the same price range - but - uhm - not market competitors.. the mere fact you and he seem to think they are "competirots" is rather telling.
A car purchase is not a one dimensional decision. Straight line performance appeals to Americans more than to pretty much anybody else. When I spoke to him again about it today, he mentioned that the driving position was crappy and the clutch/throttle/brake/shifter felt like they were patched together, unlike his Cayman. I know these seem like small details to you, but they are effectively a major part of the man/machine interface.
Shut the fuck up already with your crap.
Were you starting to cry at this point?
you're really not going to like this quote then:
from evo 099, Pg. 129 (written by Richard Meaden)
"Far from feeling like the big, numb, unwieldy contraption that prejudice - and, it has to be said, prior experience of earlier incarnations of Vette - would have us believe, the (new) Z06 earned our respect and admiration."
Did you notice the cracks in the brake discs of this vehicle they tested? That was from one session at Spa. Not exactly robust. I guess that's why they have coined the term "Porsche brakes" and not "Corvette brakes".
Old money
WTF are youon about old fucking money?
WTF does "old money" havce to do with a sports car?
This referred to one of your previous quotes were you were going on about how versatile the Z06 is and that you could take it to the opera or something. I was simply indicating that corvette would not be seen in those circles.
all you fit and finish people are so quick to mouth off
Hey, when someone spends 75 grand, even if they realize that they got a good deal on the performance side of the equation, they still expect a certain minimum level of quality.
Tell me, if you think the press is so useless and misleading than why are you referencing the lap times that Auto Zetiung apparently came up with? Are they only good when the print something that helps your argument and wrong, the majority of the rest of the time?
Just_me
01-16-2007, 03:06 AM
RC didnt comment om my post regarding Z06. Sounds like he agreed with me, that would be the first :lol:
I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior.
Then you are a fucking idiot - period.
I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.
Get a camera and takle pictures of thsi supposed "bad interior" - point out the "bad bits".
Then go to some other "supposed superior" car and identify the superior bits.
Until then shut up wiht your assinine biased crap.
I have sat ina nd around SLR's, Caymens, Roll Royces, 911, RUF's, Gallardos, Murcis, Audis, Bentleys, Panoz's, Ferraris, Lotii etc etc - and when you do you realize this utter fucking crap printed about " the interior of this car vs that" is pure shit conhured up by magazine writers to cater to gullible idiots like yourself.
Its not as if there are huge gaps int he leather and glue oozing out of th ejoints and hair balls on the ceiling.
Fucking hell I am so sick and tired of the putrid rancid shit printed by magazines and lapped up by people like yourself as biased bogus shit indormation is pread about cars I am going to continue publishing my magazine just to show pompous windbags such as yourself up.
Fuck man - are you people kidding me?
I am the one displaying a bias here - hmmm. I do not own a Veyron or a Porsche, so where exactly is my vested interest? If I'm not mistaken, you own a C5 Z06, right?...
So fucking what?
If youwere sitting here trashing Mustangs or Mazda RX7's with shit I would be countering your points.
And a 993 GT2 wasn't? Yet another biased load of crap.
Huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT2 (see 993 GT2 evo)
Exactly huh? WTF are you trying to say?
You state some one pointed ou thte C6 Z06 was "hairy" - uhm - a 993 GT2 is hairy.. the Z06 is anything but hairy.. yet more bullshit propoganda.
Ibet he gets lots of looks from the other pooftas at Starbucks..
it's a nice medium performing medium paced car - ideal for the poser.
So, Porsches are for posers and it's the corvettes that are driven by the real men? I thought you said that I was the biased one here? BTW, the last time I saw a statistic on them (in Automotive Industries - I know, another magazine...), over 80% of corvettes were sold with automatic transmissions. What exactly does that say?
WHo gives a flying fuck about the hairdresser automatic Corvette Coupe? I don't - never have - do a search for the 1000's of times I have called the Porsche Coxster, Gaymen abd Corvette Coupe poser hairdresser cars... you will find many times I say just that.
Tell your friend from me he drives a chicks car.
What a crock of shit - He was cross shopping a Cayman and Z06.. uhm - the car's are in the same price range - but - uhm - not market competitors.. the mere fact you and he seem to think they are "competirots" is rather telling.
A car purchase is not a one dimensional decision.
A sports car purchase is - you are either a poser or a driver. Unless you are extremely wealthy then you buy a car for every mood you have - if you only have money for onecar, and you compromise on the chick poofta poser mediocre performer you are a poser not a driver.
Straight line performance appeals to Americans more than to pretty much anybody else.
WTF are you rambling about now you Kanuky nutjob? Yet more bias...
When I spoke to him again about it today, he mentioned that the driving position was crappy and the clutch/throttle/brake/shifter felt like they were patched together, unlike his Cayman.
Driving position? WHat is he a fucking poofta whiner? Suck it up pussy - have you sat in a race car? The driving position is about driving not getting a massage - again, has he ever even driven the car without bias?
What a load of crap... every 911 I have driven felt no better or worse than the Lotuses, Corvettes, Panoz's etc...
The good driver adapts to the carb - the loser complains and whines like a stuck pig... *****squeal****
I know these seem like small details to you, but they are effectively a major part of the man/machine interface.
Man/machine interface? Again - good drivers adapt and drive - posers and whiners complain.
Shut the fuck up already with your crap.
Were you starting to cry at this point?
No - I began to feel sorry for you and all the other stupid sheeple that go through life brainwashed by bias... let me guess you are bleeding liberal?
you're really not going to like this quote then:
from evo 099, Pg. 129 (written by Richard Meaden)
"Far from feeling like the big, numb, unwieldy contraption that prejudice - and, it has to be said, prior experience of earlier incarnations of Vette - would have us believe, the (new) Z06 earned our respect and admiration."
Again - how the fuck do these stupid idiots compare the auto tranny soft suspension poofta hairdresser Coupe Vettes to the Z06?
Its as stupid as them saying "Man this GT3-RS really delivers where the BASE FUCKING MODEL 911 falls short.
No shit Sherlock - it stands to goddamned reason - doesnt' it.
Helllo - Captain Obvious!!!!!
Did you notice the cracks in the brake discs of this vehicle they tested? That was from one session at Spa. Not exactly robust. I guess that's why they have coined the term "Porsche brakes" and not "Corvette brakes".
Your point? I can go through a set of rotors ina weekend at the track - and tey cost me $50 a wheel to replace.
Cryo treated they last for 10 - and the car stops as well as the $8000 PCCB shod equivavlent - which might also show stress after a few weekends.
Porsche/Ferrrai brakes are not actually designed to last longer, jjust as all the PCCB owners who switched to the iron rotors after the first costly replacement.
cut out a bunch of crap
all you fit and finish people are so quick to mouth off
Hey, when someone spends 75 grand, even if they realize that they got a good deal on the performance side of the equation, they still expect a certain minimum level of quality.
Hehe - again - have you actually spent time comparing interiors that closely?
I bet you think the $160,000 Panoz has a fantastic interior.. don't you?
Tell me, if you think the press is so useless and misleading than why are you referencing the lap times that Auto Zetiung apparently came up with? Are they only good when the print something that helps your argument and wrong, the majority of the rest of the time?
Not at all - I simply make the distinction between "subjective crap" and the quantitiable measured numbers.
I am still astonished by the capacity for supposedly eductated adults to be so ill informed.
Give my regards to your poser buddy.
RC didnt comment om my post regarding Z06. Sounds like he agreed with me, that would be the first :lol:
Well, if you belt yourself in, then it doesn't matter what shape your seat is ;) - and I have a 5 point harness, so no worries about sliding around.
I didn't bother with a Recaro bucket because I daily drive my car, I have driven Recaro race seat equipped cars on the street - its was a chore even to drive around for fun, I would hate to try live with it on a daily basis.
So yes -t he seats are a compromise.. but that is to be expected. The transmisison is not as slick as the Porsche unit no, but I even found the RUF tranny to be a little vague when shiting real fast but the stock GT3 unit to be better.
But thruthfully, as you spend more time with the car you get used to the nuances.
tforth
01-16-2007, 11:04 AM
WTF are you rambling about now you Kanuky nutjob?
Let me know when/if you manage to come up with something worthy to respond to.
WTF are you rambling about now you Kanuky nutjob?
Let me know when/if you manage to come up with something worthy to respond to.
So thats the answer then - you are just a snivelling Kunuk with a chip on his cold shoulder..
:roll:
BTW - let me know whe you have an actual valid response that isnt riddled with "blah blah Amerikun shit blah blah Yanke fugger. blah blah"...
Not a single point you bring to the table is based on objective measurment - its all subject rancid drivel.
great stuff! thanks!
and a baaaad color on the RS, for any car.. :?
amazing time out of the Z06! :shock: I guess now they only have one challenge to meet.. making the interior look (and I guess "feel" tho i can't say, as i haven't been in one.. :mrgreen: but i'm guessing..) like an 80K car.. and if they can come around to changing those hideous front headlights as well..
great stuff! thanks!
and a baaaad color on the RS, for any car.. :?
amazing time out of the Z06! :shock: I guess now they only have one challenge to meet.. making the interior look (and I guess "feel" tho i can't say, as i haven't been in one.. :mrgreen: but i'm guessing..) like an 80K car.. and if they can come around to changing those hideous front headlights as well..
At least you admit to not knowing for yourself - but then again, no-one has ever quanitified what an "$80K interior" should be/look/feel like?
I mean anyone who says an Elise or has a "$50,000 interior" as an example is just being Canadian :P
well when you buy a new car.. and you paid 80K for it, (and its not a 900KG of stripped out car) you expect some nice feeling materials.. kind of like in the GT3 Porsches or even the CSL.. and from the looks of it and what people say, thats the only short coming of the Z06.. something you can live with for sure... (and maybe even upgrade yourself..) but non of the less a point to improve.. and i'm 100% sure it will be improved, soon even.. (as they dont have a lot of other things to work on anymore.. like handling etc.. ;) )
anyways.. I live with hope.. ;) and i'm sure the day would come, and the vette will rule other lands as well as America ;)
philip
01-16-2007, 03:24 PM
At least you admit to not knowing for yourself - but then again, no-one has ever quanitified what an "$80K interior" should be/look/feel like?
I mean anyone who says an Elise or has a "$50,000 interior" as an example is just being Canadian
Been in an F40 interior recently? I doubt the cage in the RS looks luxurious, but I'm glad its there and that may be where the Porsche is really alot better than the Corvette or the F40 for that matter. You can add cages, but its really more collectible if they come factory installed.
Now thats what the Blue Devil needs a serious interor no luxuries no radio just like the F40 and with a cage like the RS.
5vz-fe
01-16-2007, 03:30 PM
great stuff! thanks!
and a baaaad color on the RS, for any car.. :?
amazing time out of the Z06! :shock: I guess now they only have one challenge to meet.. making the interior look (and I guess "feel" tho i can't say, as i haven't been in one.. :mrgreen: but i'm guessing..) like an 80K car.. and if they can come around to changing those hideous front headlights as well..
At least you admit to not knowing for yourself - but then again, no-one has ever quanitified what an "$80K interior" should be/look/feel like?
I mean anyone who says an Elise or has a "$50,000 interior" as an example is just being Canadian :P
Hey now.....let's not get picky with us 'A'
I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior.
Then you are a fucking idiot - period.
I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.
Get a camera and takle pictures of thsi supposed "bad interior" - point out the "bad bits".
Then go to some other "supposed superior" car and identify the superior bits.
Until then shut up wiht your assinine biased crap.
RC isnt easier for you to just admit american cars have crappy interiors and be done with it you know it, I know it and everybody but you, infhintiy and your fanboy topgearnl know it....
when you seriously try and convince yourself (cuz no one in their right mind with eyes in their scull,and a open mind will agree with you) that a lincoln town car are on par with an rolls royce phantom interior wise you must be on crack or some very heavy drugs....not sure if you have the power to lock this thread,but from the way it are going it sounds like you are about to try soon.....and why do you feel the need to swear so much at people when they do not agree with your view and just accept what ever you say as some fanboys do....
you are being the closed minded one, a Town Car's inter. is on par, yet not fully equal to a Audi of the same price range. but to compare a RR to a lincoln you sir are the one on some very heavy drugs.
I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior.
Then you are a fucking idiot - period.
I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.
Get a camera and takle pictures of thsi supposed "bad interior" - point out the "bad bits".
Then go to some other "supposed superior" car and identify the superior bits.
Until then shut up wiht your assinine biased crap.
RC isnt easier for you to just admit american cars have crappy interiors and be done with it you know it, I know it and everybody but you, infhintiy and your fanboy topgearnl know it....
when you seriously try and convince yourself (cuz no one in their right mind with eyes in their scull,and a open mind will agree with you) that a lincoln town car are on par with an rolls royce phantom interior wise you must be on crack or some very heavy drugs....not sure if you have the power to lock this thread,but from the way it are going it sounds like you are about to try soon.....and why do you feel the need to swear so much at people when they do not agree with your view and just accept what ever you say as some fanboys do....
you are being the closed minded one, a Town Car's inter. is on par, yet not fully equal to a Audi of the same price range. but to compare a RR to a lincoln you sir are the one on some very heavy drugs.
You my friend are the one might have been slipped a mickey, cuz it was not me who said it was on par with the rolls either....I say they are not in the same league at all....catch my drift why I think he are on drugs?
but you are the one that brought up comparing a RR to a lincoln. I agree that they are in a different class. but name an American luxury car that is in that price range? so you can be default assume that the quality and materials will be different.
I understand they are in totaly different leagues, you understand it, and by that understand the rolls being more luxurious too....he dont...
He claim the lincoln to have just as good quallity interior just without the RR name to it, and everybody who thinks otherwise are the starbuck snobs (wich seem to be his new popular curse word for the month btw)...
I understand perfectly - you on the other hand choose to confuse opulence with luxury.
Just because something costs $400,000 and has 40 stitches to the inch leather work does not make it more luxurious than the $50,000 product with 8 stitches to the inch leather work.
Being in the same league has nothing to do with it.
Any one who claims that if they sat blind folded in a RR and then in a Lincoln Towncar and then in a Bentley then in a Maybach and then in a Cadillac DeVille could tell which was more luxurious by that alone is a liar.
Period.
All 4 cars rear seats are as soft and sofa like as the the other.
I know - I have done this comparison - you cannot tell them apart.
The fact that the Bentley and the Rolls have crystal brandy decanters in the drinks bar or the Maybach has an opera roof is not Luxurious - those are opulent appointments.
If you were to travel from point A to point B in any of those cars you cannot tell the "luxury" apart.
What you clowns are referring to is no the "luxuriousness" it is the opulence of the appointments.
Thats where the $400,000 comes in.
If you sit inside a $40 Million Gulfstreem private Jet with gold trim and $40,000 per seat leather seats (yes thats what they can cost) you really cannot tell the difference form an off-the-shelf $20 Million Gulfstream private jet with simple stainless/chrome trim and $1,000 seats.
But you somehow "feel" more pampered knowing the seats are hand made by nubile marble skinned virgins and cost $40,000 each.
This is the reality - and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
I challenge anyone to meet up with me in Houston for a 'luxury sit off'. I will arrange a number of vehicles and we will settle this crap once and for all.
Of the top of my head I think I can pull off a RR, Bentley, A8 W12, &60iL, S55, a Towncar and a DeVille.
The Maybach may take a little extra effort - but I just want to shut you pompous jackasses down once and for all.
get a clue people - opulence and luxury are 2 different things - one caters to your ego, the other to your body.
The point is you are wrong.
Period.
Feel all you want... the opulance is not what determines luxury.. your ego is troked by the opulance so you THINK the one is more luxurious than the other.
I never saids its only how your arese feels - thats what YOU keep saying.
Let us s-p-e-l-l it out for you and the other ignoramouses....
Lincoln Towncar [league not =] Rolls Royce
Lincoln Towncar [opulance not =] Rolls Royce
Lincoln Towncar [luxury =] Rolls Royce
BTW, how many generations of Rolls Royce have you actually been in?
I suspect not many - if any. Rolls' from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's are really just rolling living room couches.
The extra opulance like bar, curtains, electronic gadgets are pretty much poorly intergrated add-ons.
There is really NOTHING special about a Rolls from the 60's through the 90's.... they just cost a lot and and were hand made with quesitonable quality.
And back to the topic at hand, similar ignorance is being displayed in this thread with regard to the C6 Z06 - even though it freaking matches the razor edged GT3-RS toe to toe.
The bias you people display is no different to racism... you just say and believe what you do because you do. No logical or rational reason.
The z06 is the best sports car for the money available anywhere in the world.....PERIOD..... In all group tests I see it being put up against cars costing twice or three times as much and still holdings its own.
Even Evo magazine tested it and it came in only after such hyper cars as the Lambo LP-640, 599 GTB, and GT3...........all of which costs at least double it in prive. AT LEAST DOUBLE.
Here is a VERY simple example: A fully loaded Cayman S with all the right boxes ticked can cost over $70,000 after all is said and done. I just saw a brand new Corvette C6-Z06 for $60,000 at my local dealer. Now the porsche may have better build quality and more prestige......but keep this in mind: The Cayman was engineered to be slower then the 911. It could have been a faster car.....but they dumbed it down. The Z06 was built to be the biggest and baddest of its type. Which do you want, the dumbed down and over priced (but still brilliant) porsche or the all out effort to build an affordable super car?
Another perfect example would be the E46 M-3 which can run you $60,000 if you tick all the right boxes when all is said and done. Dont get me wrong now, its a great car, but I just have to wonder: Who in thier right mind is gonna take a 333hp car with only about 255 lb/ft of torque over a 505hp and 470 lb/ft torque super car for the same price. Im sure many of you would, if you want luxury and prestige, but in terms of performance its a no brainer. I mean, the E46 M3 isnt even near the 8 minute barrier for Nurburgring lap times. I think a stock M3 will run about 8:22 in the hands of an excellent driver. Not even close to the Z06.....which costs about the same $$$ out the door. One interesting thing: The M3 gets gas guzzler fee. The Z06 doesnt. That saves you even more money heheheh!
Now Im sorry, but 60 grand for a 200 mph 500hp V-8 that can lap the Nurburgring in about 7:42!!!! You just cant beat that. Put some R-compound tires on it like the cars it often goes up against have on already........and they get left in the dust. On top of that, spend a few grand tuning the thing up for the track with all that money you saved from not buying the Porsche gt3 RS......and you have an unbeatable car.
^^^ see - this guy is wise beyond his years ;)
philip
01-16-2007, 11:06 PM
My neighbor says he gets 28 mpg on the interstate in his ZO6.
My neighbor says he gets 28 mpg on the interstate in his ZO6.
Yeah but according to everyone else the interior, transmission, clutch and fit and finish suck so much he actually projectile vomits every 2.3 miles and has to pull over while he cries uncontrollably at how bad the "luxury" and style are... and when he drives his Porsche he actually looks into the rear view mirror and says "My balls are swelling with pride as I am stroking the luxurious dashboard in my "better than the Corvette" Porsche"...
Then he pulls over and screams to the heavens "My Porsche is better than my Z06 because German technicians rub their hairy chests on the door panels after they build it"
;)
tforth
01-16-2007, 11:30 PM
^^^ see - this guy is wise beyond his years
No, just brainwashed like you. BTW, you need to straighten him out on this statement:
Which do you want, the dumbed down and over priced (but still brilliant) porsche or the all out effort to build an affordable super car?
Remember, you said it's a car for hairdressers...
Regarding the quality subject, it's pretty much unanimous from within the automotive industry, that audi has been setting the benchmark for interiors for some time now. Ever sat in an original TT, or previous generation A6? BMW, when they went to benchmark it, had to change their 'Z score' system, because it received a perfect assessment. That being said, the new A6, with it's Nuovolari inspired dash looks kinda stupid. On the other hand, the R8 interior looks awesome.
I have sat in a current Phantom, and I thought it just looked old (and very dark) inside. The umbrella in the door is kind of cool though.
Anyway, I think we're way off topic. This thread is supposed to be about how the Z06 compares to the GT3 RS. If you actually read this rather poorly translated copy, it is quite clear, that if it wasn't for the Z06's superior power/weight acceleration advantage, there would be no contest. Yes, I know track tires make difference here, but look at the specific number discrepancies, they're huge!
The significance of this, is that someone has been going on and on about how they Veyron can't handle, even though it smoked the so-called fastest supercars in existence, through the twisties in evo's comparison. Now, that Auto Zeitung has provided specific data comparing the Z06 to the GT3 RS, which is the car that can't handle?? Or, is this going to be the point where magazines are useless pieces of...
Wouldn't that be convenient, again.
nthfinity
01-16-2007, 11:35 PM
I have never ever read or heard anyone, other than yourself, say that any corvette has a decent interior.
Then you are a fucking idiot - period.
I have sat in a regular C6 as well as the Z06, and would agree that the fit and finish is marginal for a 45k vehicle and pretty sad for a 75k one. Deny this all you want, but no one would ever by a vette for its level of quality! Don't get me wrong, this is not and should not be the focus of our discussion. It's just a 'fact'.
Get a camera and takle pictures of thsi supposed "bad interior" - point out the "bad bits".
Then go to some other "supposed superior" car and identify the superior bits.
Until then shut up wiht your assinine biased crap.
RC isnt easier for you to just admit american cars have crappy interiors and be done with it you know it, I know it and everybody but you, infhintiy and your fanboy topgearnl know it....
when you seriously try and convince yourself (cuz no one in their right mind with eyes in their scull,and a open mind will agree with you) that a lincoln town car are on par with an rolls royce phantom interior wise you must be on crack or some very heavy drugs....not sure if you have the power to lock this thread,but from the way it are going it sounds like you are about to try soon.....and why do you feel the need to swear so much at people when they do not agree with your view and just accept what ever you say as some fanboys do....
I Couldn't help but notice in the E60 M5 I was in yesterday felt cheaper and more hastily made then the E39 M5... the E60 is on-par with a Caddy DTS, but with more uncomfortable seats (but more supportive)
The wood and leather wasn't everywhere, in fact... it was cheap plastic, and rubber abound, and ..... fake wood :shock: I tried out the 5.50 just to be sure, and low and behold.... I have come to the same conclusions.
On to Audi
A more solid feel then the current gen Beemer bombers, but quality of the materials feels very similar... plastic dash, hard leather, unfinished feel of the lower half of the interior (not ulnike a lincoln of current production)
I just can't help but notice that semi-affordable cars are built to a price, and give the faux feel of luxury from all over the world... the difference? The Audi is more sporty, the Beemer is more sporty, the Lincoln and Caddy are more comfortable, and softer to the touch..
there is no bias here, sorry; its easy to spot a splinter when the log is in your own eye ;)
As I tried to say in the other thread....I really dont care its jsut a difference in what you think is enough to call it luxury and what I think is enough....nothing more than that....
Which indicates a clear lack of understanding as to what luxury is, and what oppulance is.
You ever fly 1st class? Thats luxury - it is more comfortable than coach... but it is not oppulant.. but is just as luxurious as a private luxury jet - just not as opulant.
As a reply below mine says you are now saying the Z06 is a great handler for the same reasons you try and say the Veyron are a bad handler...
Can anyone say flip flopper, or biased to a point where one looks like an joke...:roll:
What? You are now seriously making shit up. Which is not unusual though.
and why in heavens name are calling it racism, its a difference of opinion thats all, stop acting like a vicitm RC it doesnt look good on you....
Read again - this time with understanding - It is simple, as with racism, where someone maintains an opinion for no reason except they believe they are right - as in their is no logical justification for their view point..
This is clearly what I stated.
TopGearNL
01-17-2007, 02:02 PM
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4778/ajrjd9.gif
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4778/ajrjd9.gif
Well, he clearly asked for an argument.. :P
ViperASR
01-17-2007, 04:04 PM
wow, these corvette threads always turn into an argument between RC and someone over how good/bad the Z06 is.
I like the new Z06, however, I dont think that it is god like some people do. I respect it, and I think the motor is really nice, and the car as an entire package would be awesome to own. If I had the money, it would be hard to look over the Z06 as an option to purchase, as it owns cars twice its price.
However, I would certainly not descibe the interior as luxury. When I think luxury I think Bentlys and RR and Mercs. The Z06 was designed as a sports car, not a luxury car, so it has a sporting interior. The gearbox is also too clunky for my taste, I would like it to be more Honda S2000.
philip
01-17-2007, 06:31 PM
The Corvette and the Porsche essentiall tied timewise. The Porsche had semi racing tires, the Corvette I assume had street tires. If the Porsche had the tires it was sold with in Germany and they are street legal in Germany then the Porsche clearly won as the Corvette is in a higher displacement class than the Porsche. If the Porsche showed up with tires it did not come with, then the test was rigged in Porsches favor, so the test would need to be repeated.
To my knowlege at LeMans the GT3 Porsche has never beaten Corvette. I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
Porsche needs to get back into racing at the top level, rather than just dominating GT2. They seem to be too interested in selling SUV's to Americans at the moment.
As far as the interior is concerned, As long as the seats are supportive, I am happy. I generally perfer European interiors to American, but as far as luxury is concerned it is difficult to beat Bentley and Lexus. But I am not going to buy either of those brands. I dont buy cars based on the kind of interior they have.
I like the new Z06, however, I dont think that it is god like some people do.
I have never heard anyone claim the car is godlike.
It is not perfect.
It is cheap, fast as fucking hell, easy to maintian, cheap and easy to repair and a pleasure to drive 100% of the time.
That's not godlike - it is simply the best all rounder money can buy... because even if you spent 10 times as much, you still dont get a car that does everything this one can ;)
That's what really pisses off the haters so much - there is no other car I can think of that does everything this one does for the price period.
Fuel consumption
Straight line performance
Track performance
Top speed
Braking
Luggage space
Long distance comfort
Weight
Interior room and comfort
Price
Anyone care to try offer a car that matches every one of these catagories?
Not bad for a supposedly badly made, dog slow, shit reliability and ugly over weight product.
Oh - and interesting the majority of haters don't even own or drive the competitors cars ;)
sameerrao
01-17-2007, 07:08 PM
To my knowlege at LeMans the GT3 Porsche has never beaten Corvette. I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
Porsche needs to get back into racing at the top level, rather than just dominating GT2. They seem to be too interested in selling SUV's to Americans at the moment.
As far as the interior is concerned, As long as the seats are supportive, I am happy. I generally perfer European interiors to American, but as far as luxury is concerned it is difficult to beat Bentley and Lexus. But I am not going to buy either of those brands. I dont buy cars based on the kind of interior they have.
They compete in different classes - the Corvette is in GT2 while the Porsche in GT3 class.
They seem be involved in GT3 and LMP2 classes only. The GT3 class is nice in that there is a strong visual link between the race car and the road car. Thus from a marketing standpoint the mantra "race on Sunday and drive on Monday" is perhaps appropriate. Though from a performance standpoint a Porsche GT3 cup car is much faster than the top of the line Carrera GT.
This is far better than say Nascar where there is zero link between the Lumina roadcar and race car.
This is far better than say Nascar where there is zero link between the Lumina roadcar and race car.
Or the Toyota Camry roadcar and the pushrod V8 race car ;)
sameerrao
01-17-2007, 07:24 PM
^ Yes.
They should call the series NADSCAR - National Association of Definitely not Stock Car Auto Racing :lol:
TopGearNL
01-17-2007, 07:41 PM
I like the new Z06, however, I dont think that it is god like some people do.
No, but what you get for your money (compared to others far less money) its and astonishing car! :shock: :D
TopGearNL
01-17-2007, 08:18 PM
I like the new Z06, however, I dont think that it is god like some people do.
No, but what you get for your money (compared to others far less money) its and astonishing car! :shock: :D
Depends where you are in the world remember the vette are the cheapest in America, and by that alot of americans belive its the best car they can get for that money all over the world.....
That again is true!
The Vette is pretty expensive here, but compared to a Porsche GT3RS..
TopGearNL
01-17-2007, 08:24 PM
Porsche GT3 RS is 186.250 EUR
Corvette C6 ZO6 is 114.950 EUR
So I know what I would buy, although I have a Porsche GT3RS as my sig because its one of my fav cars I'd still go for the Vette :mrgreen:
I like the new Z06, however, I dont think that it is god like some people do.
I have never heard anyone claim the car is godlike.
It is not perfect.
It is cheap, fast as fucking hell, easy to maintian, cheap and easy to repair and a pleasure to drive 100% of the time.
That's not godlike - it is simply the best all rounder money can buy... because even if you spent 10 times as much, you still dont get a car that does everything this one can ;)
That's what really pisses off the haters so much - there is no other car I can think of that does everything this one does for the price period.
Fuel consumption
Straight line performance
Track performance
Top speed
Braking
Luggage space
Long distance comfort
Weight
Interior room and comfort
Price
Anyone care to try offer a car that matches every one of these catagories?
Not bad for a supposedly badly made, dog slow, shit reliability and ugly over weight product.
Oh - and interesting the majority of haters don't even own or drive the competitors cars ;)
No car are the same so while some cars might beat the the vettes ass on some of your listed points they get their own asses beat on other points....since the vette aint (sadly for you) the car every one compare to....
I guess you put me in the lot of haters, but I aint in reality as you know I hail the vette on some points....
Jesus Christ dude.. no one ever said it is the BEST in every catagory.. or godlike - the comparison was "across the board - at any price". :) I feel like a physics teacher in a kindergarten ;)
Answer the fucking question:
Name a car that is able to cover all those critteria.
Name just one.
The point is - if you only buy one car like many people end up doing - and you want that car to be the most fucking car it can be... name another one that fits all those cri-fucking-teria. :)
If anyone had unlimited budget - and some do - they buy one car to meet each cri-fucking-teria. If you are willing to compromise on performance and buy just one car you take something elese - but many don't want to compromise performance.
The point is again - What single car can be purchased new for the least amount of money, that uses the least gasoline on average, goes the fastest in a straight line, stops quicker, has a better track personality and has a higher top end, has more luggage space, a more comfortable interior, is cheaper to insure and is cheaper to repair - stock?
You are obviously a trillionaire and will have one of each car to meet your needs.
I, and many others (about 10,000 each year) aren't - so we purchase one car that does it all.
So again - please offer another car that does the same.
It's a simple question - answer it or GTFO.. yeah? ;)
philip
01-17-2007, 09:07 PM
To my knowlege at LeMans the GT3 Porsche has never beaten Corvette. I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
Porsche needs to get back into racing at the top level, rather than just dominating GT2. They seem to be too interested in selling SUV's to Americans at the moment.
As far as the interior is concerned, As long as the seats are supportive, I am happy. I generally perfer European interiors to American, but as far as luxury is concerned it is difficult to beat Bentley and Lexus. But I am not going to buy either of those brands. I dont buy cars based on the kind of interior they have.
They compete in different classes - the Corvette is in GT2 while the Porsche in GT3 class.
They seem be involved in GT3 and LMP2 classes only. The GT3 class is nice in that there is a strong visual link between the race car and the road car. Thus from a marketing standpoint the mantra "race on Sunday and drive on Monday" is perhaps appropriate. Though from a performance standpoint a Porsche GT3 cup car is much faster than the top of the line Carrera GT.
This is far better than say Nascar where there is zero link between the Lumina roadcar and race car.
Just to keep everything straight. Le Mans classes, LMP1, LMP2, LMGT1,LMGT2. Porsche has not competed at LeMans yet with its LMP2 car. Porsche has dominated LMGT2 for almost ever. Corvette is faster and runs in LMGT1 and has dominated for a while. The Corvettes at LeMans are faster than the Porsches currently and for the last 5 or 6 years thats the way its been.
I agree for both Corvette and Porsche it has been "race on Sunday buy the car on Monday" as the cars they run resemble the cars you can buy.
At LeMans the Corvettes are faster than the Porsches. Audi is the fastest, but only with a prototype car.
sameerrao
01-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Obviously it is faster because it is in a different class :)
tforth
01-17-2007, 11:49 PM
I agree for both Corvette and Porsche it has been "race on Sunday buy the car on Monday" as the cars they run resemble the cars you can buy.
At LeMans the Corvettes are faster than the Porsches. Audi is the fastest, but only with a prototype car.
This sounds like sour grapes. As stated before, the class Porsche is running in currently, resembles the road cars much more closely than the class the Corvettes are competing in, just as the top class that audi has dominated, is much further removed from their road cars than the class the vettes run in. You're making it sound like the vettes are faster than Porsches, but audis success doesn't count, because there is some imaginary line that has been crossed.
Whatever argument you were trying to make, please take note that no car manufacturer has dominated Lemans more often than Porsche! Corvettes are very much 'easy come lately' in this regard.
I agree for both Corvette and Porsche it has been "race on Sunday buy the car on Monday" as the cars they run resemble the cars you can buy.
At LeMans the Corvettes are faster than the Porsches. Audi is the fastest, but only with a prototype car.
This sounds like sour grapes. As stated before, the class Porsche is running in currently, resembles the road cars much more closely than the class the Corvettes are competing in, just as the top class that audi has dominated, is much further removed from their road cars than the class the vettes run in. You're making it sound like the vettes are faster than Porsches, but audis success doesn't count, because there is some imaginary line that has been crossed.
Whatever argument you were trying to make, please take note that no car manufacturer has dominated Lemans more often than Porsche! Corvettes are very much 'easy come lately' in this regard.
How about sticking to the facts on hand - the Corvette and the 911 are the subject of discussion, not prototypes.
Oh - and while you are spweing crap why not try explain away how come the C5 Z06 was able to dominate the SCCA racing classes it has run in?
Where were all the 911's ??
nthfinity
01-18-2007, 12:16 AM
tforth, you do know that Vette is entering in GT3 racing this year, right? Then a more "direct" comparsion can be assertained :)
if comparing the two street cars isn't already good enough (both are great, the vette handles great, and goes fast, the RS handles slightly better, and goes quick; leading towared a remarkably similar lap time.
the what if?
what if the Vette had semi-slicks on similar to the RS just how much faster would the Z06 have been?
what if the Vette had semi-slicks on similar to the RS just how much faster would the Z06 have been?
He already said that counts for nought because the Z06 has a crap interior and is just a straight line piece of shit anyway... :P
tforth
01-18-2007, 01:02 AM
How about sticking to the facts on hand - the Corvette and the 911 are the subject of discussion, not prototypes.
I was the one who brought the prototypes into this thread...
Where were all the 911's ??
The 911 and it's racing derivatives, have won more races in more classes than Corvette ever will.
Ask yourself this question:
In the history of the automobile, which car represents the ideal of sports car more closely, the 911 or the Corvette? Furthermore, which will be remembered by more people around the world (not just the US)?
leading towared a remarkably similar lap time.
You need to speak to your bed buddy there. He has stated repeatedly that magazine articles should not be referenced because they don't know what they're talking about. So, I guess you'll have to rely on his data when he runs a GT3 RS against the fabled Z06 (in an unbiased manner of course...).
Where were all the 911's ??
The 911 and it's racing derivatives, have won more races in more classes than Corvette ever will.
Ask yourself this question:
In the history of the automobile, which car represents the ideal of sports car more closely, the 911 or the Corvette? Furthermore, which will be remembered by more people around the world (not just the US)?
Dude - (and I mean that with as much disrespect as possible), dude - do you honestly think you hold sole access to knowledge about cars historical and current?
How condescending to assume that I or any one else don't actually know all these pointless bits of crap trivia you keep throwing out?
I have more literature documenting the history of Porsche, the brand, the model and thei racing histiry than you probably know exists - there is no need for you to keep quoting crap we already know.
My statement was not about anything except the SCCA classes that the Corvette and the 911 participate in.
The one detail you conveniently fail to mention is that "all the 911 derivatives" have literally flooded their classes with entrants - and by pure law of average they will have more victories - much the same way the Suzuki GSXR750 has won so many 750cc class victories in series around the world - they normall outnumber their competiotn by 5 to 1... the chance of a Gixxer winning is of course greater.
And whether you choose to believe it or not, the Corvette has an even greater cult following outside the USA - and while our eurcrat members will deny it, the Corvette of all generations is extremely sought after on the continent.
Their are hundreds of people who import the C5 Z06 at great expense and get them modified to allow driving in Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Italy etc.
The C6 Z06 being a regular model is easier to obtian but US spec C6 Z's are being exported as well to those that demand the car.
Anyway - no matter what you say you cannot reduce the performance of the car and as to what car, the Corvette or 911 is the consumate sports car - it would depend if you asked a truly knowledgable person - or an illinformed biased person.
The truly knowledgable would say both represent equaly what is the true sprost car as they both represent a car that since the very first model has been dancing toe to toe with the best in class.
Both have won series races they have entered over the years - bioth have remained true to their original formula.
And before you try counter this, be prepared to provide the performance specs of the every year 911 and Corvette (including sub-models) and compare them year for year.
Because when you do, you will learn a thing or 2... that these 2 models have been performance peers since day 1.
[
leading towared a remarkably similar lap time.
You need to speak to your bed buddy there. He has stated repeatedly that magazine articles should not be referenced because they don't know what they're talking about. So, I guess you'll have to rely on his data when he runs a GT3 RS against the fabled Z06 (in an unbiased manner of course...).
Nice try - subjective magazine opinion forming is vastly different to collected and measured data.
philip
01-18-2007, 01:22 AM
Obviously it is faster because it is in a different class :)
No not necessarily, this is where Porsche has made great headlines by beating more powerful faster cars not in their class.
Porsche has not been able to do that with the Covette in the last 6 years.
We could only wish that someone would race prepare a Carrera GT and race against the Corvette in the same class, but no one has tried not even the factory. We can only hope and dream.
SFDMALEX
01-18-2007, 01:31 AM
Im too old for this :wink:
Im too old for this :wink:
That's for sure.. at 75, I am surprised you can move the mouse....
SFDMALEX
01-18-2007, 01:41 AM
Im too old for this :wink:
That's for sure.. at 75, I am surprised you can move the mouse....
hehe, hence I changed the age, so I can stay away from these convos :lol:
I just came to appriciate everything automotive, and realize that Z06s, 911s, F-cars and all that are so evenly matched that arguments will never stop.
Then you have the porsche/ferrari fanboys who know fuck all, vette haters, vette lovers (Im talking about "my vette pwns your CGT" type) and all that...
I just sit back, relax and watch the show now :D
philip
01-18-2007, 01:45 AM
I agree for both Corvette and Porsche it has been "race on Sunday buy the car on Monday" as the cars they run resemble the cars you can buy.
At LeMans the Corvettes are faster than the Porsches. Audi is the fastest, but only with a prototype car.
This sounds like sour grapes. As stated before, the class Porsche is running in currently, resembles the road cars much more closely than the class the Corvettes are competing in, just as the top class that audi has dominated, is much further removed from their road cars than the class the vettes run in. You're making it sound like the vettes are faster than Porsches, but audis success doesn't count, because there is some imaginary line that has been crossed.
Whatever argument you were trying to make, please take note that no car manufacturer has dominated Lemans more often than Porsche! Corvettes are very much 'easy come lately' in this regard.
LMGT1 and LMGT2 are both production based classes. The Corvette has been modified just like the Porsche. The Audi runs in a Protoype class which does not follow a production based car. So yes an imaginary line has been crossed. The Corvettes are the fastest production based cars at Le Mans.
Corvette is the "Johnny come lately" at Le Mans and does not have the history of winning LeMans like Porsche.
However, Porsche because of its consentration on making money, which it has become very good at, is not racing at LeMans like it once did.
Last year a Panoz Esperante beat all the Porsche GT3 RS's at leMans winning LMGT2 and finishing 15th. The Compuware Corvette finished 4th, doing what Porsche usually does, beating cars in a faster class. Two Corvettes finished ahead of the faster LMP2 class winner.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/941/corvetteinforpitsjt5.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corvetteinforpitsjt5.jpg)
So you are saying that a stock Audi RS4 will do the following:
Cost less. (if so - show by how much and indicate if it is possible to purchase at that price - remember many of the Euro cars cannot be purchased without taking a "package' of options - see BMW and Audi)
0-60mph in under 4s.
60-0 in under 105ft
1/4 mile in under 12s at above 125mph
will top 180mph
will use less than 22mpg fuel
can lap the Nurburgrin in under 7m43s
can fit 2 full sized hard golf bags in the trunk.
If you cant match a category its not a contender :)
ViperASR
01-18-2007, 07:43 PM
My statement was not about anything except the SCCA classes that the Corvette and the 911 participate in.
thats because you were biased in talking abuot SCCA classes that offer an advantage to the Corvette, hence the popularity
The one detail you conveniently fail to mention is that "all the 911 derivatives" have literally flooded their classes with entrants - and by pure law of average they will have more victories - much the same way the Suzuki GSXR750 has won so many 750cc class victories in series around the world - they normall outnumber their competiotn by 5 to 1... the chance of a Gixxer winning is of course greater.
Thats because it is the better car/bike for those series that are flooded with entries. They are also cheaper to buy/maintain because of their popularity
And before you try counter this, be prepared to provide the performance specs of the every year 911 and Corvette (including sub-models) and compare them year for year.
Who really cares that much. Most of a cars desire comes from personal want for the car and personal opinion, not just the fastest in its class. I like the Honda Civic SI more than the Golf GTI, the GTI is faster around a track then the SI, but it is still my personal choice.
So you are saying that a stock Audi RS4 will do the following:
Cost less. (if so - show by how much and indicate if it is possible to purchase at that price - remember many of the Euro cars cannot be purchased without taking a "package' of options - see BMW and Audi)
0-60mph in under 4s.
60-0 in under 105ft
1/4 mile in under 12s at above 125mph
will top 180mph
will use less than 22mpg fuel
can lap the Nurburgrin in under 7m43s
can fit 2 full sized hard golf bags in the trunk.
But the Porsche 911 GT3RS is faster around a track then the Z06. At that length, an Enzo is faster than a Z06. But the higher price of these cars means they are faster. The Z06 is faster then the RS4, but it is also more expensive. It will also fit 2 golf clubs in the trunk, AND will fit 5 people. Yes the vette is faster, but the RS4 is more user friendly, and dosnt have the clunky gearbox. You are very selective in what you say the Z06 can do.
I was trying very hard to stay out of this little argument, and I mean no offense to anyone with what I'm saying, but I had to offer my opinion, even though and argument cannot be won against RC :wink: .
So the bottom line is there is no other car that can beat these criteria all at once:
Cost less than $72,000USD. (if so - show by how much and indicate if it is possible to purchase at that price - remember many of the Euro cars cannot be purchased without taking a "package' of options - see BMW and Audi)
0-60mph in under 4s.
60-0 in under 105ft
1/4 mile in under 12s at above 125mph
will top 180mph
will use less than 22mpg fuel
can lap the Nurburgrin in under 7m43s
can fit 2 full sized hard golf bags in the trunk.
Because I am still waiting for some one to offer me the car.
Its a simple request.
Put up - or shut up.
If such a car existed in 2001 I would have bought that car instead of the c5 Z06. It didn't so I didn't.
Such a car doesn't even exist today - and if you throw in a'used price' its game over again.
ViperASR
01-18-2007, 08:01 PM
So the bottom line is there is no other car that can beat these criteria all at once:
Cost less than $72,000USD. (if so - show by how much and indicate if it is possible to purchase at that price - remember many of the Euro cars cannot be purchased without taking a "package' of options - see BMW and Audi)
0-60mph in under 4s.
60-0 in under 105ft
1/4 mile in under 12s at above 125mph
will top 180mph
will use less than 22mpg fuel
can lap the Nurburgrin in under 7m43s
can fit 2 full sized hard golf bags in the trunk.
Because I am still waiting for some one to offer me the car.
Its a simple request.
Put up - or shut up.
I can do the same thing for alot of cars though, starting with your favorite, the Bugatti Veyron. Show me any car that has:
16 cylinders and 4 turbos
goes 253.2mph
has a 7-speed DSG transmission
0-62 in 2.5 seconds
0-124 in 7.3 seconds
0-186 in 16.7 seconds
Seats two in a leather clad interior
Brakes at over 1g
has 10 radiators
The same thing can be done with other cars as well, I figured I would just start with another car with a big fanboy following
Oh, by the way, if you find a car that does this and more, it must be documented in scientific tests, and be available for purchase by the public.
Put up - or shut up.
nthfinity
01-18-2007, 08:03 PM
so why is 7 speed, and 16 cylinders a requirement for your "car of comparison"?
any decent vette, viper, saleen s7 can be made to do those same things, except faster, for cheaper
why is 10 radiators part of your que? thats not performance, if anything, it is slowing the car, and robbing it of power.
put up or shut up seems the words to use here.
I have yet to see documentation of hte Veyron's 253 mph ;)
All accel figures seem to stop right around 100 mph (in amazing speed)
and.. with all those exuberant super hi-po american cars running at places like the Texas mile @ 220 mph, i guess thats not scientific enough for you?
I can do the same thing for alot of cars though, starting with your favorite, the Bugatti Veyron. Show me any car that has:
16 cylinders and 4 turbos
goes 253.2mph
has a 7-speed DSG transmission
0-62 in 2.5 seconds
0-124 in 7.3 seconds
0-186 in 16.7 seconds
Seats two in a leather clad interior
Brakes at over 1g
has 10 radiators
The same thing can be done with other cars as well, I figured I would just start with another car with a big fanboy following
Don't be an idiot.
If 1 million was the criteria then the list is a moot point any way.
ViperASR
01-18-2007, 08:06 PM
so why is 7 speed, and 16 cylinders a requirement for your "car of comparison"?
any decent vette, viper, saleen s7 can be made to do those same things, except faster, for cheaper
why is 10 radiators part of your que? thats not performance, if anything, it is slowing the car, and robbing it of power.
put up or shut up seems the words to use here.
I was just using it as an example. I hit the net and every little fact I could find in a min I added. I was just using this as an example that these kind of requirments can be made for almost any car.
nthfinity
01-18-2007, 08:06 PM
the vette gets 28mpg... not 22
if you measure the "not far off" in terms of speed by bus lengths, then sure, tehy are close at 80 mph marker.
David Hasselhoff
01-18-2007, 08:12 PM
The Z06 is nothing when compared to the almighty TransAm.
Would you like an autgraphed photo of me in a speedo to go with that Audi?
ViperASR
01-18-2007, 08:17 PM
Don't be an idiot.
If 1 million was the criteria then the list is a moot point any way.
Ok, so lets try the 2000 Honda S2000
Name a car that has all of the following for less then $32,000 and has the following
A 2.0L N/A motor that makes 240hp
Revs to 9000 RPM
6-speed buttery transmission
I think ill just leave it at that and see how you do
Do you see what I'm saying though, there are certain things that some cars do better than others. You are very good at taking those things and showing them to make the car seem like god.
ViperASR
01-18-2007, 08:21 PM
Oh shit, almost forgot
Put up - or shut up.
I'm really trying not to be rude, I'm just trying to show how something like that comes off over the internet... :bah:
In terms of track performance the RS4 and Z06 shouldnt even be compaired. On equal tires (the easiest and cheapest thing any owner can upgrade) the Z06 would smoke the RS4 on just about any track type short of maybe an Auto-X cone challenge.
Similar to the way that, in terms of interiors, the two cars shouldnt even be compaired. The quliaty of the RS4's interior is simply on another planet to the Z06's. Audi knows how to do interiors right. Now if only they could position thier engines BEHIND the front axle instead of over it they might manage to produce a car that doesnt understeer everywhere at the limit.......or at least not have to revert to electronic trickery and AWD to try and hde as much understeer tendency as possible!! But you know Audi and thier love of AWD. Why cant they just get the engine placement right......then they might be able to compete dynamically with BMW. Ugh.
nthfinity
01-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Don't be an idiot.
If 1 million was the criteria then the list is a moot point any way.
Ok, so lets try the 2000 Honda S2000
Name a car that has all of the following for less then $32,000 and has the following
A 2.0L N/A motor that makes 240hp
Revs to 9000 RPM
6-speed buttery transmission
I think ill just leave it at that and see how you do
BTW, its no longer a 2.0 liter engine in the 240 hp variant ;)
also, lets see the stupid items you mention
engine size
rpm's
arguably the transmission
the only thing thats important that you mentioned is power, which in context just doesn't really tell much of the story, now does it?
if you were to go
S2k
xx cargo space (with roof up)
0-100 in xx seconds
5-100 rolling start in xx seconds
60-0 braking in xx ft.
x.xx g lateral in both directions
road course time in x:xx.xx seconds
for xx$
maybe now you see the hasty generalization you are making?
BTW obdr, the RS4's interior is only marginally better feeling then the C6 Z06, its most definately not "on another planet" the seats are more comfy, and perhaps more supportive too... but definately not "on another planet"
666fast
01-18-2007, 11:05 PM
Comparing the American price for the RS4 vs the Vette the RS4 are cheaper,but if we make the same comparison in Norway the price difference are alot bigger because they need a 7 litre engine to produce their 500 hp while the Audi engineers only need 4,2 to produce 420hp
Brembo, do you really think 500hp was all they could get out of the engine? I'm 100% they could get a hell of a lot more if they wanted. It's cost that requires the big displacement. Thats how they are able to sell them for so little. Have a look at the L88 Vettes. 550-570bhp with a 7 liter engine..........in 1967.
I'm not looking to get into an arguement, but this thread is very entertaining!
As for the LeMans GT and GT2 classes resembling road cars, it's because they have to. It's in the rules, from the wheel centerline and up, they car has to resemble the road car. With exception to spoilers and such.
Also, there is a very big difference between GT and GT2. Namely, the amount of modifications. GT2 cars are stripped out road cars with safety equipement and a lot of adjustability. GT cars are that and a whole lot more.
If you want to compare Vettes and GT3's in racing, you'll need to look at series like the Speed World Challnge. Where both cars have had success.
Also, why do you see so many GT3's being raced? Have a look at Porsches customer program, it's one of the best. So good in fact, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a 100% factory effort in GT3. You can expect them to do the same in P2 once they start rolling out more chassis to customers.
Oh shit, almost forgot
Put up - or shut up.
I'm really trying not to be rude, I'm just trying to show how something like that comes off over the internet... :bah:
I am not trying to be rude either... but for a car forum you guys sure seem to pussy's when it comes to performance.
If you have decided you will not compromise peformance, and want supercar performance, then are only a few cars you need look at.
If you want to be able to honestly use the car every day, rain or shine, reliably and with affordable repairs and maintenance - the number of cars gets even less...
Now try buy that car for less than $100,000USD and you end up with 1.
Period.
This was true in 2001 with thr C5 Z06, and it is true in 2007 with the C6 Z06 as well.
Every other choice is either slower, costs more or in fact is not true daily driver.
There is no debate.
If there was I and many others would have bought a different car.
Is the car perfect? No.
Is it the fastest most user friendly daily driver stock car on the planet for less than $100,000 new? Yes.
I am still waiting for anyone to present the car that proves this statement wrong.
BTW, I just chose $100,000 to give you guys a chance - the C5 Z06 used at $30,000 is the greatest performance bargain in history. And this is a fcat you cannot argue.
TopGearNL
01-19-2007, 12:30 AM
BTW, I just chose $100,000 to give you guys a chance - the C5 Z06 used at $30,000 is the greatest performance bargain in history. And this is a fcat you cannot argue.
Anyone who disagrees with that is an idiot..
666fast
01-19-2007, 12:44 AM
BTW, I just chose $100,000 to give you guys a chance - the C5 Z06 used at $30,000 is the greatest performance bargain in history. And this is a fcat you cannot argue.
Anyone who disagrees with that is an idiot..
Well, given the right track, a number of kit cars could run circles around a Z06. Whether or not it could be used as a daily driver depends entirely on the driver. Some people could drive a stripped out budget racer every day and not care, where as others need to be engulfed in exotic woods and the softest leathers known to man.
What's the price of Nobles once they hit the pig dog american shores?
tforth
01-19-2007, 12:45 AM
BTW, I just chose $100,000 to give you guys a chance - the C5 Z06 used at $30,000 is the greatest performance bargain in history. And this is a fcat you cannot argue.
Isn't this really all it comes down to with you? You are continuously attempting to seek approval of the car purchase decision you made. This really has nothing to do with cars at all. It's really about you and some obvious issues you need to work out.
I believe I speak for a few members here when I say that this site should be about and for the enjoyment of car enthusiasts, who like fast/fun/cool/classic/modern/etc. cars. I would hope to think that this isn't just a place were people want to say how great their car is, and how it's better than every other car out there.
And speaking of your god's image on wheels, wasn't your generation of vette the one that still got its ass spanked regularly by the Viper GTS? To best of my obviously limited knowledge, GM wasn't able to correct this serious issue until the C6 Z06 came out. Speaking of, this (when the C5 was current) was also when the Viper was dominating in Lemans as well wasn't it?
Nice try - subjective magazine opinion forming is vastly different to collected and measured data.
OK, here you go. The following list is from evo 099 (it's their Bedford Autodrome lap times):
Vehicle lap time Peak
(min:s) (mph)
1 Caterham R500 Evo 1:19.62 117.0
2 Porsche CGT 1:19.70 120.5
3 Caterham CSR 260 1:21.00 112.8
4 Ariel Atom 300 S/C 1:21.85 113.9
5 Caterham CSR 260 S/L 1:21.85 110.7
6 Koenigsegg CCX 1:22.30 120.0
7 Lamborghini Gallardo '06 1:22.80 116.9
8 Mosler MT900 1:23.00 115.7
9 Ascari KZ1 1:23.20 117.8
10 Porsche 911 (997) turbo 1:23.55 116.5
11 Porsche 911 (996) GT3 RS 1:23.85 113.4
12 Lamborghini Gallardo 1:23.90 112.4
13 Ferrari F430 1:24.20 112.2
14 Corvette Z06 (C6) 1:24.45 118.1
15 Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ-340 1:24.55 107.3
16 Porsche 911 (997) Carrera S Sport 1:24.60 108.2
Gee, what's the Z06 doing this far down the list? And why is its peak speed so much higher than the other cars which put in similar lap times; because it handles so well? And how could that outdated 996 GT3 RS be faster than it, when the 'notable' Auto Zeitung article has the latest/greatest 997 version barley faster?
Then again, we should have never posted to this topic, because it's only from a useless magazine, right?
SFDMALEX
01-19-2007, 12:56 AM
You do realize that even a 3 second difference in road cars over some random tracks should NOT be taken into consideration.
It's a fact that an experianced driver needs about 3 hours of practice with one particular car to get to its fullest potential.
F430 drives completly different to a GT3. You take both out for a spin, drive them the same and they will turn tottaly different lap times. You need to know how to drive a porsche. You need to know how to drive an F-car.
You know when I will start believing auto mag times? When they have factory test drivers for each brand do the driving.
An absolute immense amout of work goes into setting a Vmax lap time.
A tire makes a huge difference on the road. On the track the right tire will make 5x the differnce that it would on the road.
All these laptimes are very subjective. And the fact that all these cars do lap so close together is enough to say that they are essentialy equal. And different tracks/conditions will favour different cars.
An Evo and a Z06 within a second of each other? Further proves that these times are useless. A Z06 on a track like Brno or Spa would MURDER an Evo, so would a GT3 and so would an F430.
BTW, I just chose $100,000 to give you guys a chance - the C5 Z06 used at $30,000 is the greatest performance bargain in history. And this is a fcat you cannot argue.
Isn't this really all it comes down to with you? You are continuously attempting to seek approval of the car purchase decision you made. This really has nothing to do with cars at all. It's really about you and some obvious issues you need to work out.
WTF are you whining about now?
What approval? I enjoy the car every day - rain AND shine.
I believe I speak for a few members here when I say that this site should be about and for the enjoyment of car enthusiasts, who like fast/fun/cool/classic/modern/etc. cars. I would hope to think that this isn't just a place were people want to say how great their car is, and how it's better than every other car out there.
If I didn't own it the facts would still be the same. I never saif=d the car was better - youdid.. I said the car is the best performance car for the price.
This you cannot debate.
And speaking of your god's image on wheels, wasn't your generation of vette the one that still got its ass spanked regularly by the Viper GTS?
WTF? Gods image? How many fucking times do I have to type the words "The Z06 is not perfect"
To best of my obviously limited knowledge, GM wasn't able to correct this serious issue until the C6 Z06 came out. Speaking of, this (when the C5 was current) was also when the Viper was dominating in Lemans as well wasn't it?
You are wrong.
The C5 Z06 debuted as a 2001 model - the C5 has won Le Mans ever since.
Nice try - subjective magazine opinion forming is vastly different to collected and measured data.
OK, here you go. The following list is from evo 099 (it's their Bedford Autodrome lap times):
Vehicle lap time Peak
(min:s) (mph)
1 Caterham R500 Evo 1:19.62 117.0
2 Porsche CGT 1:19.70 120.5
3 Caterham CSR 260 1:21.00 112.8
4 Ariel Atom 300 S/C 1:21.85 113.9
5 Caterham CSR 260 S/L 1:21.85 110.7
6 Koenigsegg CCX 1:22.30 120.0
7 Lamborghini Gallardo '06 1:22.80 116.9
8 Mosler MT900 1:23.00 115.7
9 Ascari KZ1 1:23.20 117.8
10 Porsche 911 (997) turbo 1:23.55 116.5
11 Porsche 911 (996) GT3 RS 1:23.85 113.4
12 Lamborghini Gallardo 1:23.90 112.4
13 Ferrari F430 1:24.20 112.2
14 Corvette Z06 (C6) 1:24.45 118.1
15 Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ-340 1:24.55 107.3
16 Porsche 911 (997) Carrera S Sport 1:24.60 108.2
Gee, what's the Z06 doing this far down the list? And why is its peak speed so much higher than the other cars which put in similar lap times; because it handles so well? And how could that outdated 996 GT3 RS be faster than it, when the 'notable' Auto Zeitung article has the latest/greatest 997 version barley faster?
Did you read the article and take not e of the tyres and other configurations?
Better yet - do you even understand what the impact tyres have on a track test?
??
Then again, we should have never posted to this topic, because it's only from a useless magazine, right?
Believe what you want - either way you are wrong.
SFDMALEX
01-19-2007, 01:09 AM
And why is its peak speed so much higher than the other cars which put in similar lap times; because it handles so well?
Because you need Vmax corner exit to get Vmax next corner brake point speed.
And the Vette chassis are very well balanced for that purpose. If an an F-car youll be battling oversteer on exit (which is not bad if you have good skills as you can use that to your advantage) the Vette just leaves exits smoothly.
A Vette will always be the faster car straight out of the box. It is the easiest car to reach its full potential because it is so well balanced.
I know, race engineers told me :wink:
A Vette is like a classic jet, good aero being what keeps you from loosing control.
An F-car is like an F22, needs a whole lot of gizmos to keep it self in control, but as the result is very manuverble. But you being the gizmo that keeps it in control makes it a whole lot harder to drive it at the limit then it would be to keep a Vette going.
sentra_dude
01-19-2007, 01:39 AM
Ok, so lets try the 2000 Honda S2000
BTW, its no longer a 2.0 liter engine in the 240 hp variant ;)
Uhh, so? He said the 2000 one, not 2004.
also, lets see the stupid items you mention
engine size
rpm's
arguably the transmission
Why is RPM a stupid item? Isn't everyone excited that the C6 Z06 revs to 7000 RPM? I know I am, I think that is a great achievement for a 7.0L push rod V8. Just like a street engine built to last revving to 9000 RPM, that is an impressive feat as well.
Why is transmission a stupid item? I would hope transmission quality would be a somewhat important factor in a decision to buy a car...
Ok, so lets try the 2000 Honda S2000
BTW, its no longer a 2.0 liter engine in the 240 hp variant ;)
Uhh, so? He said the 2000 one, not 2004.
also, lets see the stupid items you mention
engine size
rpm's
arguably the transmission
Why is RPM a stupid item? Isn't everyone excited that the C6 Z06 revs to 7000 RPM? I know I am, I think that is a great achievement for a 7.0L push rod V8. Just like a street engine built to last revving to 9000 RPM, that is an impressive feat as well.
Why is transmission a stupid item? I would hope transmission quality would be a somewhat important factor in a decision to buy a car...
Because when you are after the best performance in your price range, what the fuck has RPM or transmission got to do with it?
The criteria are fastest and most usable car for the money.
Thew question was find a faster car more usable car for less money.
I looked for one, and couldn't find it. I would like someone to tell me what this mystery car is.
JoeHahn
01-19-2007, 02:36 AM
Because when you are after the best performance in your price range, what the fuck has RPM or transmission got to do with it?
The criteria are fastest and most usable car for the money.
Thew question was find a faster car more usable car for less money.
I looked for one, and couldn't find it. I would like someone to tell me what this mystery car is.
I reckon transmission easily comes into usability. No-one wants to be depressing a clutch the weight of the world everytime they change gears. If thats discounted, you may aswell discount MPG.
Because when you are after the best performance in your price range, what the fuck has RPM or transmission got to do with it?
The criteria are fastest and most usable car for the money.
Thew question was find a faster car more usable car for less money.
I looked for one, and couldn't find it. I would like someone to tell me what this mystery car is.
I reckon transmission easily comes into usability. No-one wants to be depressing a clutch the weight of the world everytime they change gears. If thats discounted, you may aswell discount MPG.
75,000 miles later is proof you people are talking out of your arseholes
I have daily driven this 6 speed car for 4 years - the clutch is fine - the transmission is fine.
In fact I even have a short shifter that makes the shifts stiffer than an AC Cobra... I wish the clutch was stiffer - I hate how pansy all modern clutches are.
All this crying whining is pathetic.
Do youpeople or do you people NOT like to interact with extremely powerful fast and great handling cars that are daily uasable?
Damn but you people are biased and just plain ignorant.
TopGearNL
01-19-2007, 03:04 AM
You people all say and claim alot but RC is the one who owns that car and who knows the car better then a daily driver. You may say RC always takes it up for the Vette but why not and who blaims him, if you claim something about the Vette that isn't even based on a true fact I can see why RC doesn't agree and starts a argument.
And its not just with regard to the Z06 either - I will defend the 911 GT3 and the RT12 and the Caterham Superlight and the Exige and the Panoz Esperante and even the freaking CTR yellowbird and the Bentley Coupe and any other ar I have experienced if I see people spread falsehoods about it.
But I notice people seldom ttry to bad mouth all these other cars - why? Because they soak up all the mdeia good, bad or indifferent - even when people have no experience with the cars.
Wasn't I one of the people defending the Murci LP640 as all the "magazine jockeys" claim it's a bad handling car?
Thats the thing - people attack so adamently what they don't know, based only on what they choose to believe.
If that's not the definitin of biased, it should be ;)
ViperASR
01-19-2007, 06:29 PM
And its not just with regard to the Z06 either - I will defend the 911 GT3 and the RT12 and the Caterham Superlight and the Exige and the Panoz Esperante and even the freaking CTR yellowbird and the Bentley Coupe and any other ar I have experienced if I see people spread falsehoods about it.
But I notice people seldom ttry to bad mouth all these other cars - why? Because they soak up all the mdeia good, bad or indifferent - even when people have no experience with the cars.
Wasn't I one of the people defending the Murci LP640 as all the "magazine jockeys" claim it's a bad handling car?
Thats the thing - people attack so adamently what they don't know, based only on what they choose to believe.
If that's not the definitin of biased, it should be ;)
I never attacked the Z06. My 1st post in this topic stated that the Z06 impreses me more and more everyday. My respect for the Z06 is imense, and it is a great bargain.
However, this test was not about price, it was about which was faster, and
the GT3RS was faster. Given the choice of the two, I would take the GT3 RS because IMO it is a better car then the Corvette.
One thing that upsets me is that the fanboys of the Corvette think that it is the end all of cars. Sorry RC, but you are a bit of a fanboy when it comes to the Corvette, whenever one comes up in an argument or test, you always end up getting in a fight defending the Corvettes honor. I also agree with whoever said that you are trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. It is a psychological thing, where you defend the decision you made (or purchase) even if it was wrong. Im not saying that buying the corvette was wrong, I bet its a great car, I'm just saying that I agree with whoever said that you are defending your purchase. I do it with my XBOX 360 (despite all the problems), and you do it with your PS3 and all the posts from the PS3.
To nth, I was using the Honda S2000 as an example of how easy it is to make a car sound like the best option that that money can buy. I included the price, the displacement, the redline, and the hp because I knew that no car could beat it. I could have included track times, and 0-60, and interior space, and trunk space, but that would have been pointless as I know that the 2000 Honda S2000 set a record for HP per L of displacement. I just wanted to show that by putting in one thing, like the price and nurb. time of the Z06, nothing in that price range can beat it, making all the other figures obsolite.
nthfinity
01-19-2007, 10:22 PM
BTW obdr, the RS4's interior is only marginally better feeling then the C6 Z06, its most definately not "on another planet" the seats are more comfy, and perhaps more supportive too... but definately not "on another planet"
Oh my God you really are something can you say that with a straight face?
If so no wonder you think the Lincoln have a "spitzen klasse" interior....when did the vette get a interior that are only marginally worse than an RS4....
That comment show that you are just as biased as you try to make others out to be...:roll:
actually, it has shown the opposite... First off, why would anybody compare a F430/Gallardo killer vs. a RS4?
brembo - name a single high performance car that meets the listed criteria.
It is a simple question.
You and that canadian fool keep trying to twist my words around.
Let me spell it out - Your criteria are not for a sports car. You criteria are for some compromised all weather sedan. Buy what ever the fuck you want.
The facts are simply whether or not the car presented is the best sports car buy. Thats it.
You have gone to great lengths to make it seem like I have said the Z06 is the perfect car.
Again.
The Corvette C5 and C6 Z06 are NOT perfect
NOT
Can you fucking read?
NOT
As in there are other cars that are better - for a higher price or a different purpose
If how ever, you want the fastest sports car for the money that is daily usable (note the non-compromise) then there is one car.
If the 599 cost less than $75,000 then it would be the car.
One question - why is it that you and a bunch of other people have no trouble labeling a european car as best of **whatever catagory** ----- but as soon as its an American car, you become a real cunt?
Well -guess what - you lose this debate - the facts speak for themselves.
As soon as another car comes along that costs less, uses less gas, goes faster, stop quicker and is more comfortable, IT will become that car.
Unbelievable that you folks are such pricks that you just refuse to believe that an American car can ever be good at anything.
RC posted the criteria of the only things the vette are good at, and try to sell it in as an practical car with a point that one need to be able to get two sets of golf clubs in the car....wtf golf clubs???
I used golf clubs because they are large bulky unweilding items you cant fold up to store.
Maybe a better one will be "A car that can fit 2 18"x10.5" and 2 17"x9.5" wheels (thats 4 wheels), 2 passangers and a photography bag"
Because I have carried that much in the car before.
The only things that count to me (and a lot of other perfromance enthusiasts) are price and performance.
This is why sports cars exist - to exploit the performance.
We are not twisting your words,
Yes you are - this post is proof there of.
but you say the vette are the best buy on the planet and for the criteria you listed there are other options wich are better, because alot of the planets population doesnt life in an all sunny zone and need their car to handle on snow, alot of people need to carry more than one person beside themself and when the Z06 are alot more expensive than other cars wich does performance greatly, but still have alot of other options where the vette would just die right away your vette are not the best buy for everyone on the planet.....
Are you being a cunt on purpose?
The criteria ARE for a sports car - thats what the Z06 is - its a fucking sports car - not a sedan, not a wagon, not a 4wd, not a 4 seater, not a rally car, not a pickup truck, not a limousine... - its a sports fucking car - like the F430, the 911, the Gallardo, the Ford GT, the Viper, the F599 etc...
So the more correct stament would be the Z06 are the best buy for people who like performance cars and live in America, but only if you have only one friend or dont go out much with more than one friend, and it never snows, and dont care about quallity....
No it wouldn't - and you being stupid trying to say so.
Because by your very argument you have just said an RS4 is a better sports car than the F599 - what a load of crap.
nthfinity
01-19-2007, 11:10 PM
find me a 911 GT3 that drives year round in a geographic location like Michigan, canada, norway etc.
Alot of kit cars are a better sports car then your vette, they will never be considered amongst the F430, the 911 the Gallardo, the ford GT, the viper or the F599
And none of those kit cars have luggage space and are actually daily usable - you seem to forget I spend many hours with one of the best ever made - The caterham Superlight R - I know exactly ow much of a sports car a 500kg 200hp go kart is.
I never said the RS4 was a better sports car
Then why the fuck did you bother bringing it up as a sports car competitor in this debate? Were you just trying to be a prick?
are you stupid or do you just make a very good impression of a dimwit?
I said it was a cheaper options all things considered across the board it provides a better package for less money...
But you are wrong - it uses more gas, goes slower, takes longer to stop and is slower around a track.
So again - WTF did you propose it as a competitior for a sports car? are you stupid or do you just make a very good impression of a dimwit?
I said on performance the vette would be better,
This was a given - so again, WTF did you bring the car up? It does not meet the criteria for a sports car.
but you sadly for you in your eager to tell everyone once again what a great car you got.
No - YOU decided to make a stupid comparison to prolong this debate.
you also listed practical where the Vette are not that good and you cant drive it all year in all conditions....so its not the best bragain all over the world....
Neither can you drive other sports cars all year - so agin - why would make such a stupid comparison?
are you stupid or do you just make a very good impression of a dimwit?
People have been known to go to the lumber yard, the super market and even the garage in a Corvette and haul 20 x 8ft 2x2 stringers, a months worth of groceries, 2 19" tryes or 4 wheels etc etc.
brembo, exactly what are you hoping to prove?
tforth
01-20-2007, 01:07 AM
find me a 911 GT3 that drives year round in a geographic location like Michigan, canada, norway etc.
You mean that you haven't seen this one racing sideways through the snow covered track in Scandanavia?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2040902.002&porsche=1.html/country/gcf
Regarding the ongoing debate of which is a faster/better sports car for the money, wasn't the Viper GTS faster than the C5 Z06? It had a nice clunky tranny too. I know, I flogged a yellow one (with GTS-R cams) for a couple weekends many moons ago.
Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now... But man, did they ever look better!
find me a 911 GT3 that drives year round in a geographic location like Michigan, canada, norway etc.
You mean that you haven't seen this one racing sideways through the snow covered track in Scandanavia?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2040902.002&porsche=1.html/country/gcf
And what is to prevent any other RWD sports car from doing the same?
Regarding the ongoing debate of which is a faster/better sports car for the money, wasn't the Viper GTS faster than the C5 Z06?
No it wasn't - and even if it was, it was $25,000 more expensive and has less usable storage space and uses way more gas.
It had a nice clunky tranny too. I know, I flogged a yellow one (with GTS-R cams) for a couple weekends many moons ago.
Considering it is the same T56 transmisison (which is also used by a number of other cars this is pretty obvious to those in the know.
Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now...
Wrong
2001 Z06 58% value retention
2001 Viper GTS 57% value retention
Try again.
But man, did they ever look better!
Subjective - both cars look great.
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Hey RC, I found a way to beat you and your mighty Corvette on all fronts. Go buy/Build a Cateram or Lotus 7 replica, that will be faster then the Corvette. Then with the money you saved, go buy a mini-van or an SUV. That will seat and hold more then the mighty Corvette. Oh, it will also be able to tow the Cateram or Lotus 7 replica, and I garuntee that the SUV would have a more comfortable ride to the track then the Z06.
I also like how so many arguments are being made against the Z06, and you keep going back to your little list of things to beat. WHO CARES when your driving down the road how much faster your car is to 60 or around the NS.
The Z06 is a great performace car, but it is not an end all car. It is very very good on some fronts, but it is also not good on some other fronts. So if you are only looking for how fast a car is at the NS to purchase it, buy the Z06, but if you care about some other things buy another car. Also, with the money you save, you can probobly make the other car you buy faster then the almighty Z06.
When you started your little rant about how mighty the vette are you never said sports car you claimed it to be the car over all cars across the board for the money
Then you are dunber that first thought.
In a comparison of a GT3 vs Z06 or any other sports car, why would you not assume sports car?
Please brembo - you obviously have no time for and don't like me (which is ok - I don't like you either and dont need approval or likes from astrangers anyway), and have made it your business to start an argument any time you can... please use common sense in future discusisons or just fuck off.. seriously - you are just making a dust storm.
You and your little clique have got out of your way to tyr argue for the last 3 years - and each of your arguments is trumped up and bogus.
The point of this and other discussions has revolved around hipo sports cars - you choose to come up with someother criteria blah blah blah... please just stop being an arsehole every chance you get.
Hey RC, I found a way to beat you and your mighty Corvette on all fronts. Go buy/Build a Cateram or Lotus 7 replica, that will be faster then the Corvette. Then with the money you saved, go buy a mini-van or an SUV. That will seat and hold more then the mighty Corvette. Oh, it will also be able to tow the Cateram or Lotus 7 replica, and I garuntee that the SUV would have a more comfortable ride to the track then the Z06.
Hey mini brembo - kiss my arse.
Its not a might Corvette - I never said it was.
There many cars faster...I never said there were not.
I think having spent many weekends with a Caterham SLR on the track I can more closely speak to its fit feel and performanc ethan you can - and never claimed a Z06 was faster than it. Why would I? I know the SLR is quicker - I have actually measured the SLR's speed around a track.
I know.
But if youthink you will build/buy a new SLR for less than $50,000 in the USA - you dont know what you are talking about.
ANyway - that wasnt the point of the discussion - it was about a new sports car that has a certain pseed potential within a certain budget.
And again - there is only one car at this time meeting these critieria.
I also like how so many arguments are being made against the Z06, and you keep going back to your little list of things to beat. WHO CARES when your driving down the road how much faster your car is to 60 or around the NS.
Who cares? Well lets see, if you buy a sports car that you want to be able to meet certain performance criteria, then you will care.
Other wise by you fucked up logic, why not juts by a Civic 1.3l.. afterall - who cares once you are driving ti - right?
The Z06 is a great performace car, but it is not an end all car. It is very very good on some fronts, but it is also not good on some other fronts. So if you are only looking for how fast a car is at the NS to purchase it, buy the Z06, but if you care about some other things buy another car. Also, with the money you save, you can probobly make the other car you buy faster then the almighty Z06.
WTF?
If you have unlimited funds the Corvette C5 Z05/C6 Z06 is a pointless piece of crap. There.. are you satisfied?
If you do not have an unlimited budget and want 1 car that can meet and beat a large number of other cars and be usable everyday then it is pretty much the only choice FOR A GOD_DAMNED SPORTS CAR
SO again - one question:
What sports car, when purchased new, is the fastest, has the lowest fuel consumption, stops the quickest, turns the hardest, and has the largest usable luggage space and costs the least.
Please name the car - it needs to be light fast and quick and cheap to maintain and must from the word go be faster than/equal to the current Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini midlevel sports car on sale.
This car is for the sports car enthusiast on a budget (who is nt wealthy like you and brembo and your other trust fund kids that have mommy and daddy by them $50,000 cars every graduation) and needs to be hardy and reliable enough to be daily driven for 7 years or more and easiliy put on 100,000+ miles.
So - name the car such an enthusiast can purchase and enjoy.
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 03:31 PM
In a comparison of a GT3 vs Z06 or any other sports car, why would you not assume sports car?
So then the fastest one would win right?
But if youthink you will build/buy a new SLR for less than $50,000 in the USA - you dont know what you are talking about.
Ever head of Grassroots Motorsports. You could easily bulid one for under $10,000, just dont buy ALL new shit. Get a doner car that is wrecked or something. Miatas make a great doner car, and there are a wide variety of options to tune those motors.
who cares once you are driving ti - right?
Actually, some people could care less :wink:
But if youthink you will build/buy a new SLR for less than $50,000 in the USA - you dont know what you are talking about.
Ever head of Grassroots Motorsports. You could easily bulid one for under $10,000, just dont buy ALL new shit. Get a doner car that is wrecked or something. Miatas make a great doner car, and there are a wide variety of options to tune those motors.
Then it wouldn't be a Caterham Superlight R - would it now?
http://www.uscaterham.com/csrspecs.html
nthfinity
01-20-2007, 03:49 PM
i seem to recall that a 5 second 0-60 launch is the truth about thier power to weight advantage... still a killer track beast on street legal tires... i mean... 1.7 g !!!
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 03:50 PM
But if youthink you will build/buy a new SLR for less than $50,000 in the USA - you dont know what you are talking about.
Ever head of Grassroots Motorsports. You could easily bulid one for under $10,000, just dont buy ALL new shit. Get a doner car that is wrecked or something. Miatas make a great doner car, and there are a wide variety of options to tune those motors.
Then it wouldn't be a Caterham Superlight R - would it now?
http://www.uscaterham.com/csrspecs.html
I was using that as an example, you can build kit cars just as fast for hella cheap. I figured you would understand I was just using it as an expample.
But if youthink you will build/buy a new SLR for less than $50,000 in the USA - you dont know what you are talking about.
Ever head of Grassroots Motorsports. You could easily bulid one for under $10,000, just dont buy ALL new shit. Get a doner car that is wrecked or something. Miatas make a great doner car, and there are a wide variety of options to tune those motors.
Then it wouldn't be a Caterham Superlight R - would it now?
http://www.uscaterham.com/csrspecs.html
I was using that as an example, you can build kit cars just as fast for hella cheap. I figured you would understand I was just using it as an expample.
But it still would not be a reliable daily usable sports car would it now?
And truthfully, you could not build a caterham Superlight R beating "kit car" for $10,000 - the tyres, suspension bits and race seats, harnesses and light weight wheels and carbon bits and pieces are more than $10K already - and the car gets its go-kart like lithe and finesse from being, well, Superlight :P
Now it costs closer to %60K to get an SLR onto the road/track in the USA, but you can them used for about $30K.
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 05:26 PM
But it still would not be a reliable daily usable sports car would it now?
No, but as I said earlier, you go buy an SUV or mini-van as a daily driver/tow car. And that would be better on gas then the Z06.
All I'm trying to point out is that although the Z06 is a great performance car for the price, there are other options available that can come close or equal the total price of the Z06. You asked for something that could beat the Z06 in performance and interior space and stuff, and I did, it just took two cars, which would probobly leave more money for gas and tires.
I think that we are just trying to point out other options, and not taking anything away from the Z06. You just always stand behind the vette, no matter what it is up against, and for this test, it was about performance cars, as you said. And the GT3 is the better performance car. You turned it into a Z06 is god fight again.
You are calling bmuller an ass, saying that everyone is always picking fights with you, but from my perspective it seems as if you started this whole argument. You seem to, when stating your opinion, piss other people off. Hence you you were banned from the Forza forums. I doubt they cared that you were saying that it didnt include your beloved playseat and 6-speed controller, its just that you came across as rude and trying to pick a fight. You got what you wanted, didnt you?
But it still would not be a reliable daily usable sports car would it now?
No, but as I said earlier, you go buy an SUV or mini-van as a daily driver/tow car. And that would be better on gas then the Z06.
Really? what sort of gas mileage do YOU think an SUV / Minivan gets?
And agin - you just ig-fucking-nored the idea of a SINGLE car again.
All I'm trying to point out is that although the Z06 is a great performance car for the price, there are other options available that can come close or equal the total price of the Z06.
??
You asked for something that could beat the Z06 in performance and interior space and stuff, and I did, it just took two cars, which would probobly leave more money for gas and tires.
It just tok 2 cars? WTF? How is that a single daily driver sports car in any shape or form?
Now we are hearing in order to enjoy "sports car" performance, you have to have 2 cars.. wtf?
I think that we are just trying to point out other options, and not taking anything away from the Z06.
Of course there are other options - all involving compromise. And as you and your crew keep on abou t"but if you buy 2,3 ,4 or 52 cars you can have a variety etc blah blah" you all look straight over the have a single car criteria.
You just always stand behind the vette, no matter what it is up against, and for this test, it was about performance cars, as you said. And the GT3 is the better performance car. You turned it into a Z06 is god fight again.
No - I am correcting ignorant mistatements - untruths.. and this was a test between a GT3-RS and the Z06. In this case the roll cage and semi-slick style tyres actually take away from the daily use ability of the car.
Have you ever tried to use a 911 with a roll cage - you cant even get a gym bag in the back - I know we tried one day.
You are calling bmuller an ass, saying that everyone is always picking fights with you, but from my perspective it seems as if you started this whole argument.
whoa - why drag bmuller into this?
You seem to, when stating your opinion, piss other people off.
Because I call out fanboy liars to their face and they dont like it.
Hence you you were banned from the Forza forums.
No - they just dont like ANY anti-MS speak - its been like that from day 1... you have to say "in my humble opinion but Forza is still the best and XBox360 is great, it might have problems".
I doubt they cared that you were saying that it didnt include your beloved playseat and 6-speed controller, its just that you came across as rude and trying to pick a fight. You got what you wanted, didnt you?
Actually - their was no fight picked - some idiot over there stated some crap and hearsay about the PS3 and resolutions - I corrected him and was called a liar - I then corrected them and mentioned PC graphics - againwas called a liar as according to them PC games can't possibly supprot anyhting above HD...
See they respond a lot like you and the rest of the "Corvette must suck and Europe is Great" crew - you dont like being shown in a logical way that your opinion is based on flawed data and false informastion.
We have all seen you and others post actual false data about Corvettes and then ty use that to back up your flawed opinion.
The problem is no-one ever questions the flawed praising of the eurocars, so their God-liek status in your minds is unquestioned.. you hatred for the Vette is also unquestioned.
Hence the rabid defence of your stance that all the logocal conclusions must be wrong - even when faced with clear informaiton to the contrary
You simply state a justification why the "Corvette didn't win technicaly - the eurocar lost".
So again - in the contest of whats the cheapest way to go fast everyday with some usable space if you so choose, there are only about 4 such cars costng less than $100,000 - and one is the Z06, the GT3 is the other, the Viper GTS is possibly another as it has a little storage space.... hmmm loks like there are only 3 after all.
Anything else is either slower or more expensive.
Can't you justaccept this as the reality?
Now of those 3, the Z06 is the cheapest. Agin - whats so hard to accept?
If you raise the price to $300,000 you may get a different set of winners - although, with $300K to spend you pobably wouldn't get just one car.
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 07:13 PM
whoa - why drag bmuller into this?
sorry about that, I ment Brembo
You simply state a justification why the "Corvette didn't win technicaly - the eurocar lost".
Actually, the Corvette lost this comparo, it was slower around the track...
Really? what sort of gas mileage do YOU think an SUV / Minivan gets?
And agin - you just ig-fucking-nored the idea of a SINGLE car again.
My mom's mini van get 20 mpg around the city, and my brothers new Honda Pilot did 24mpg if I recall correctly when we were in the keys driving around like tourists. The Nissan Murano gets around 20mpg as well. Not all SUVs get crappy gas milage like the massive american SUVs.
The budget was set, so I used it the way I would really use it, not the way you would use it.
I also like how you have pissed off numerous people in this topic, called them idiots, asses, and disrepecting them. We are all wrong, you are right, we admit it. Do you realize that you are trying to convince me that the Z06 is a great car, when I already admitted it?
You simply state a justification why the "Corvette didn't win technicaly - the eurocar lost".
Actually, the Corvette lost this comparo, it was slower around the track...
Wow - now youlimit yourself to this topic.. nice backpedal... this is the Z06 vs GT3-RS comparo... how did the Z06 vs GT3 one play out?
Really? what sort of gas mileage do YOU think an SUV / Minivan gets?
And agin - you just ig-fucking-nored the idea of a SINGLE car again.
My mom's mini van get 20 mpg around the city, and my brothers new Honda Pilot did 24mpg if I recall correctly when we were in the keys driving around like tourists. The Nissan Murano gets around 20mpg as well.
What exactly are you planning on towing with a Murano, Minivan or Honda Pilot?
Not all SUVs get crappy gas milage like the massive american SUVs.
SUV means Sport Utility Vehicle.. not Honda Viciv with tall roof and bigger wheels.
The budget was set, so I used it the way I would really use it, not the way you would use it.
The budget was for a single car.
I also like how you have pissed off numerous people in this topic, called them idiots, asses, and disrepecting them.
Only in response to like minded treatment - and they are only pissed off because I hav shown thwem to be incorrect thourgh facts.
We are all wrong, you are right, we admit it.
This was evident the moment you typed biased opinion and hearsay.. :)
[
Do you realize that you are trying to convince me that the Z06 is a great car, when I already admitted it?
I am not trying to convince you of anything.. merely stating that dollar for dollar you cannot go faster, stop quicker, turn harder - period.
Thats all.
Has nothign to do with greatness or luxury or build quaility or percieved comfort or even pose and snob value... it is simply the cheapest way to go fast with a new car.
There are faster, better built, more snobby, quicker turning, fancier etc etc etc cars - in short there are better cars out there. But they are either slower, or cost more ;)
Some people don't want to go slower, and they don't have more money to spend.
if you want to go slower or have more money - great - have at it. I would the have to admit that your Enzo was way faster than my car... period. No argument - the same way you would have to admit I paid less... and your seats are fancier, my carpets are not made of the golden n fleece and your engine has 12 cyilnders.
The facts can't be argued. :P
ViperASR
01-20-2007, 08:47 PM
What exactly are you planning on towing with a Murano, Minivan or Honda Pilot?
I saw that one comming. The minivan (a Nissan Quest) towes our Formula car with multiple sets of tires, tools and spares on the trailer and in the back of the van with no problem. Have been doing this with this car for a long time and car has taken it in stride.
What exactly are you planning on towing with a Murano, Minivan or Honda Pilot?
I saw that one comming. The minivan (a Nissan Quest) towes our Formula car with multiple sets of tires, tools and spares on the trailer and in the back of the van with no problem. Have been doing this with this car for a long time and car has taken it in stride.
So out of your entire tyrade, the only comeback you had was "We tow stuff with out minivan"?
... cut out a bunch of crap...
The article compares 2 sports cars, anyone able to breath on their own would comprehend that further abstractions would be ralated to sports cars...
No matter what you say.
You have yet again been caught out being incorrect - and this is sonething yo uhate to have thrown back inyour face.
I could give a fuck about sedans and other shit - sports cars is the topic, sports cars is th focus.
Who needs you aproval again? Just how self righteous woul dyou need to be to think anyone needed your approval for anything.
You were wrong - suck it up.
... cut out a bunch of crap...
The article compares 2 sports cars, anyone able to breath on their own would comprehend that further abstractions would be ralated to sports cars...
No matter what you say.
You have yet again been caught out being incorrect - and this is sonething yo uhate to have thrown back inyour face.
I could give a fuck about sedans and other shit - sports cars is the topic, sports cars is th focus.
Who needs you aproval again? Just how self righteous woul dyou need to be to think anyone needed your approval for anything.
You were wrong - suck it up.
ROFLMAO.....
Yeah it was me who was caught being incorrect....you backpedaled like a champ there RC.....
just because you say someone are wrong doesnt mean anything....hows your new attempt to get people to say the Z06 are the best sports car to buy going btw....... :lol:
you really crack us up RC....keep posting as I said....looking forward to the best used car to buy thread..... :lol:
btw I notice the lack of swear words in this post RC.... :lol:
I have never cared for anythign except sports cars - this is consistant - I have no reason to debate about anything else.
No really - screw you - because when it comes down to it there is only one cheap performance car out there - the next nearest competitior is the 911, and always has been.
Doesn't matter how you try turn this around or spew crap, the facts are the facts - price and performance. Period. try as you might you wont be able to change the facts.
And these facts would be true even if I didnt own one.. dont youget that?
Are you that stuborn that you dont see the obvious?
It doesnt matter what you say.. the cars goes as fast as it does and costs as little as it does.
Period.
You cant change this - the same is true for the 911. No matter what yousay, you cannot change the price or the performance.
In short - you are wrong.
No really - screw you.
Do you want a hug RC... :lol:
Actually no - what I cant wait for is the R8's to arrive so I can post up how slow and cumbersome it is and really is nothing more than a V10 TT.
tforth
01-21-2007, 01:29 PM
tforth wrote:
Quote:
find me a 911 GT3 that drives year round in a geographic location like Michigan, canada, norway etc.
You mean that you haven't seen this one racing sideways through the snow covered track in Scandanavia?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2040902.002&porsche=1.html /country/gcf
And what is to prevent any other RWD sports car from doing the same?
Has a corvette ever won Paris-Dakar? You, clearly have no clue when it comes to the capabilities and acomplishments of the 911.
tforth wrote:
Regarding the ongoing debate of which is a faster/better sports car for the money, wasn't the Viper GTS faster than the C5 Z06?
No it wasn't - and even if it was, it was $25,000 more expensive and has less usable storage space and uses way more gas.
Huh? You really think we're all that stupid? I don't have any readily available data, but I'm pretty sure that on the same strip and with the same driver the GTS would do 12.4s, whereas the C5 Z06 would do 12.7s. Of course these times are for unmodified cars.
tforth wrote:
Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now...
Wrong
2001 Z06 58% value retention
2001 Viper GTS 57% value retention
Try again.
You're truly unbelievable! This is the same thread, where after I had provided the evo lap times, showing that the C6 Z06 posted the 14th fastest time at Bedford, someone said that any time within 3s/lap can be considered an equivalent time...
Now, you're trying to make an argument that the depreciation rate is within 1%?? Please, provide your source, so it can be verified. This sounds like the argument kids have, where they say: "Oh yeah, my dad is 120 years old, so he can beat your dad up...
Quote:
But man, did they ever look better!
Subjective - both cars look great.
The GTS is a unique car. The C5 Z06 looks just like the gold chain gang's standard C5!
twboy1999
01-21-2007, 03:08 PM
:popcorn:
Then again, I would assume that Vipers hold their value much better than C5 vettes, so although they did cost more new, there is probably a much bigger price gap between them now...
Wrong
2001 Z06 58% value retention
2001 Viper GTS 57% value retention
Try again.
You're truly unbelievable! This is the same thread, where after I had provided the evo lap times, showing that the C6 Z06 posted the 14th fastest time at Bedford, someone said that any time within 3s/lap can be considered an equivalent time...
Now, you're trying to make an argument that the depreciation rate is within 1%?? Please, provide your source, so it can be verified. This sounds like the argument kids have, where they say: "Oh yeah, my dad is 120 years old, so he can beat your dad up...
How about YOU prove that the 2001 Viper has a lower depreciation rate than the 2001 C5 Z06.
Because Kelley Blue Book, NADA and any other verifiable Industry Source Agrees with me.
You see - I do actually know what I am speaking about.
DO you really want me to embarress you by posting the actual links to NADA, Kelley Blue Book, White Book, Black Book etc source that show I am correct - and you are incorrect?
But man, did they ever look better!
Subjective - both cars look great.
The GTS is a unique car. The C5 Z06 looks just like the gold chain gang's standard C5!
Again - you are simply demonstrating youlack of knowledge.
Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.
But seeing as you just posted the "gold chain gang" argument you have obviously lost and are simply resorting to throwing typical ignorant biases around - further proving you have no real automotive knowledge.
Nice try though - really nice try.
If you really meant sports car why did you even discuss the RS4 and wanted more info on price and specs before....two pages later in this thread suddensly decided the RS4 was a sedan and the Z06 where in a different class so they shouldnt be compared...ROFLMAO....
You suggested the RS4 - no one esle.
The RS4 costs more, goes slower and is a sedan. Remind me again why anyone with a sportscar should give a fuck about your or any other Audi?
If you really meant sports car why did you even discuss the RS4 and wanted more info on price and specs before....two pages later in this thread suddensly decided the RS4 was a sedan and the Z06 where in a different class so they shouldnt be compared...ROFLMAO....
You suggested the RS4 - no one esle.
The RS4 costs more, goes slower and is a sedan. Remind me again why anyone with a sportscar should give a fuck about your or any other Audi?
Yes I suggested the RS4 as it got great performance not quite on par with the Z06 at least not in the dry that is, it are a hell of alot more practical than the Z06, it is better quallity than the Z06 and it cost less than the Z06 $66k for the Audi and $70k for the Z06.... so its not more expensive.
You asked for a car that could beat the Z06 and as an overall package it does in my opinion, but then you suddenly decided they where in different classes so they shouldnt be compared...LOL..
Hell you gave the criteria and picked the only things the Z06 shine at, then two pages later you decide you dont want to play the game anymore and say they cant be compared....you look more and more pathetic as this goes on RC...
LOL at the Audi comment, do you really think that would get me going I am not the one of you and me who scream "look at my car" all the time...hell I havnt even made a post in the what do you drive or ride section about my car....
And I didnt even mention my car in this discussion so why on earth are you dragging my car into it, I never compared it to the Z06 why should I its 12 years older.....
A single car.
A single sports car.
A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance.
Sadly you have no concept of what that means.
Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do.
I am not bitter at all Paul, I am laughing like awhole lot of other people here on JW... :lol:
You are bitter and angry and predictable.
Had I been talkign about a Porsche or Ferrari youwould have been sucking my dick in praise.. but because it is an American car, a Corvette no less you are being the arsehole you are - period.
Any car purchase is an emotional and subjective decision.
One person likes Audi over BMW - yet another likes Porsche over Ferrari and yet another likes Chevrolet over Ford etc etc.
Even when those decisions can be logically opposed.
For you - the logical facts that the "best sports car bargain" - and in english "bargain" means cheapest price - so for you , the logical facts that the Z06 of the last 2 generation is the best bargain - in otherwords no other car goes faster, stops quicker or turns harder for less money is unacceptable and unbelievable to you.
Had the Porsche GT3 cost less than the Z06 you would have no problem accepting this logical and fact based statement - why? Because you like the GT3 - you despise the Z06 ehnce your stupid actions for the last week.
You dont have to like the cra for the facts to be the facts.
Period.
In fact - almost everyone on this forum hates American cars with a passion and this extends to the Z06 - so fucking what?
This hate doesnt change the facts - you cannot buy a cheaper car that turns harder, goes faster or stops quicker.
As a bonus it uses less gas, has more usable space and cheap to insure and repair.
These are facts you cannot change brembo.. you cannot - you dont have to like it - but you can't change them.
Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain
Argue all you want - you will never change the facts.
It was never said to be more reliable, fancier, prettier, better built or any other subjective thing... simply the best bargain - as int he cheapest for what it does.
ARgue all you want - keep going - I have all year - but until a car comes long with a lower price, higher speed, harder turning ability and shorter stopping distance, uses less gas and has more interior room it will always be:
The best sportscar bargain around
Will everyone like it? No. Does everyone have to worry about "cheap price"? - No. DO some people prefer to have a fancy dicksucker on the dashboard even if it slows the car down and costs more? - sure..
Does that change the facts?
No.
brembo - you and your clique the only prick around that is trying to turn this around.
For once in your life try debate a fact.
mevistox5
01-21-2007, 05:44 PM
A single car.
A single sports car.
A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance.
Sadly you have no concept of what that means.
Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do.
I named a single car.
Don't want to stir up things, but what happend to the criteria low gas usage?? The Corvette isn't that famous as an economy box (neither is the Porsche btw)
Nico
ps. I'm british car guy, so.........
A single car.
A single sports car.
A single sports car that goes, stops and turns within certain specs - the bonuses are price, low gas usage, extra usable space and cheap repairs and maintenance.
Sadly you have no concept of what that means.
Don't get all bitter because the facts lay as they do.
I named a single car.
Don't want to stir up things, but what happend to the criteria low gas usage?? The Corvette isn't that famous as an economy box (neither is the Porsche btw)
Nico
ps. I'm british car guy, so.........
No stirring up - but many refuse to believe that the over drive 6th gear pf the C5 and C6 generations does allow the car to post really amazing fule figures.
Freeway driving regularly returns 25mpg average usage, and the "skip shift" feature that has a shift gate lock out that guides you from 1st to 4th during low rpm slow speed city driving returns an urban fuel cycle usage of about 18mpg.
The Corvette is one of the few sports cars in the US that does nto get assessed a gas guzzker tax because of this.
:)
And welcome to the fray ;)
mevistox5
01-21-2007, 05:55 PM
Well I can believe that.... I know that the 1st generation Vipers were equipped with a 6 speed only to pass economy criteria......
How do you feel it compares to the Viper?? In GT racing the Corvette is having a hard them against these cars.
Nico
mevistox5
01-21-2007, 06:03 PM
Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain
For once in your life try debate a fact.
Some of the problem (beside male hormons) is that we live in different parts of the world. The corvette and the Viper are ' bargains' in the US over here they cost a fortune. The new Corvette will cost you about 100.000 euro's, that's 130.000 US dollars. The Porsches in Germany again are very cheap........
I sometime wish I lived in the UK. If I look through the classified I get very sad. So many great cars (Ultima's, TVR, Marcos, AM, Nissan Skylines etc.) at a bargain price. There even cheaper sometimes that a new Ford Mondeo.
Well I can believe that.... I know that the 1st generation Vipers were equipped with a 6 speed only to pass economy criteria......
How do you feel it compares to the Viper?? In GT racing the Corvette is having a hard them against these cars.
Nico
Generation for generation the Viper and Corvette have battled it out.. and it wasn't untilthe Z06 arrived that the C5 Corvette could really take on the Viper.
That duty was left to the ZR1 for the C4 generation.
From day q it has always takne a skilled driver to extract the real potential from the Viper... they would always rewards the "mash the gas" drivers with a quick trip into the nearest ditch ;)
Peformance wise they are a great match for the Z06 of each generation, with the Vipers extra weight being overcome by always having a little more power than the Z06 - until the C6 Z06 - which is why the next genViper is getting 600hp... they need it.
Daily use - no doubt the Z06 is easier to live with, but that gap was closed noticeably with the SRT/10 (first roadster and now coupe) - the new gen is a lot more livable, but will still burn the leg of the unattentive - and contort the body of the really tall.
In racing of course its a different ball game - and cost and comfort no longer count - the C5 Z)6 dominated SCCA racinhg in the USA with all the AutoX,T1 and T2, and SPeedGT wins they could muster - but the SRT/10 Coupe really put the kibash on the C5 Z06 reign with many privateer teams switching to the 500hp Viper.
There are still some Z06 loyalists but it is getting tougher which is good - more competition.
The C5R dominated GT for 6 years, so it was not surprising that the SRT/10 would take up where the GTS could no longer compete.
But the C6R is holding its own. What is really needed is for Ford to have a decently competativecar to enter so it can be a Blue Oval, Bow Tie, Mopar 3 way batle like it was 35 years ago ;)
Does this make the Z06 the best car int he world? No -- it simply makes it the best sportscar bargain
For once in your life try debate a fact.
Some of the problem (beside male hormons) is that we live in different parts of the world. The corvette and the Viper are ' bargains' in the US over here they cost a fortune. The new Corvette will cost you about 100.000 euro's, that's 130.000 US dollars. The Porsches in Germany again are very cheap........
Well I have tried to say this for a long time but as RC arent capable of looking beyond Texas he are stuck....
I havnt checked prices up but there are good chances a competetive Porsche would be cheaper here than the Z06....
Actually - think about it.
What are the performance competitiors to the Z0r?
The 911 Turbo/GT3, the F360/F430, The Viper GTS/SRT/10, the Gallardo etc... all cars that are already expensive in Europe.
SO here is the task:
Name the European car that is cheaper than the C6 Z06 in europe that meets the sportscar criteria:
The car must be faster in a straight line, turn harder, stop quicker, use less gas hold more luggage and cost less.
I think you will face the same answer.
What ever you choose will either cost more or fail on the "daily use" test.
Here s your chance to prove me wrong. Name the European sports car that meets the criteria.
;)
But as you said its the best car, and after you changed it to sports car as even you saw it was not the best car across the board..
I have never ever ever ever claimed the Z06 to be the "best car int he world" ever.
Please - why would I be so fucking stupid?
I see and admire and look and touch a huge number of some of the best cars in the world - so why would I say that?
I have only ever claimed the Z06 to be the best high performance/sports car bargain. Thats all I ahve ever said ecer.
Search any thread on any forum on the entire intardweb.. why would I say anythign else?
Please stop trying to put words into my mouth - that is the most insulting part of this exchange - that you are trying so hard to make it seem like I am saying something I am not.
never have - and never will.
For fucks sake dude - not only have I lived with the Z06 for 70,000 miles - I have spent enough time in and around so many super cars I knwo exactly what the Z)6 is (the cheapest hotrod around) and what it is not (the best car around).
Peace out - now stop trying to make me out to be some hillbilly hick with a Chevy tattoo on my back.
and if we also put snow into the equation the Z06 would be left for dead on avarage.....
And the F430 or Viper or F360 or GT3 wouldn't?
Christ brembo - why do you insist on being a prick about this whooe debate?
SPORTS CAR
Fuckit dude.
when we take other things than performance into consideration the RS4 does most of them better than the Z06....
The RS4 are still cheaper than the Z06.....
When shopping for a SPORTS CAR the other things you are talking about are not of note -- do you not get this concept?
SPORTS CAR
If you just had posted about the Z06 and left it at that not trying to convince the world that the Z06 are the best thing since sliced bread more people would have liked the Z06...
For fucks sakes man.. why do youinsist on being the prick you are.
gain
for the stupid THE Z06 IS NOT--- NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD
I have only ever said it is the BEST SPORTS CAR BARGAIN - THATS IT - NO MORE - NO LESS
Seriously - you are relly being a prick about this entire thing.
Still trying to put words into my mouth.
You really are being an areshole - no debating that fact.
:roll:
BTW - you still haven't admitted to the facts that even in Europe you cannot buy a faster sports car for less money.
TopGearNL
01-21-2007, 06:56 PM
RC is right. I don't know what it is with the others, but you can either not read or a too stupid to understand.. :roll:
TopGearNL
01-21-2007, 07:08 PM
I am glad you come and provide your vast knowledge of performance cars tough, tell us when you get your license and actually have driven...
Oh were beginning on that tone again are we...
I have read every comment from both of you's. RC is right about what he stated, the Corvette is the best allround sportscar. Oh I might not have driven it but have you? Have you driven the RS4?
TopGearNL
01-21-2007, 07:31 PM
I am glad you come and provide your vast knowledge of performance cars tough, tell us when you get your license and actually have driven...
Oh were beginning on that tone again are we...
I have read every comment from both of you's. RC is right about what he stated, the Corvette is the best allround sportscar. Oh I might not have driven it but have you? Have you driven the RS4?
He did not state best allround sporst car at all, before you tell me how to read, learn the art of reading yourself kido....
I am not about to discuss what cars I have driven vs you get your driving license, drive some cars and then come back with an attitude if you want to go down that road....
Then what is this?
for the stupid THE Z06 IS NOT--- NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - NOT - THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD
I have only ever said it is the BEST SPORTS CAR BARGAIN - THATS IT - NO MORE - NO LESS
You don't even want to answer that simple question, that says alot...
Sure Ill come back when I have my license, any further requirements sir?
If you go back you will see he stated car,
My first mistake was misjudging how important it was for you to "catch me out" -- something you have been tryign to do for years now.. :roll:
My second was assuming that in a discussion about sportscars and performance the audience would naturally realize and cotten on to this fact and stay with the topic :roll:
TopGearNL
01-21-2007, 07:49 PM
My second was assuming that in a discussion about sportscars and performance the audience would naturally realize and cotten on to this fact and stay with the topic
At least one person realized that :wink:
My second was assuming that in a discussion about sportscars and performance the audience would naturally realize and cotten on to this fact and stay with the topic
At least one person realized that :wink:
Now you're scarying me.. 1 in 37,000 members is not a good indication of average reading comprehension ;)
TopGearNL
01-21-2007, 07:57 PM
My second was assuming that in a discussion about sportscars and performance the audience would naturally realize and cotten on to this fact and stay with the topic
At least one person realized that :wink:
Now you're scarying me.. 1 in 37,000 members is not a good indication of average reading comprehension ;)
LOL! :lol:
Well Im leaving this topic/discussion. I can only come back when Ive got my Drivers License..
tforth
01-22-2007, 12:32 AM
Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.
So, are you saying that this body shell wasn't available with the 'garden engine'. I'm pretty sure I knew a guy who bought one, when they were new.
Another thing I was surprised to read, was that the official top speed for the C5 Z06 was only 176 mph (limited by redline in 5th). That's quite a bit slower than its competition, isn't it?
666fast
01-22-2007, 12:51 AM
Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.
So, are you saying that this body shell wasn't available with the 'garden engine'. I'm pretty sure I knew a guy who bought one, when they were new.
Another thing I was surprised to read, was that the official top speed for the C5 Z06 was only 176 mph (limited by redline in 5th). That's quite a bit slower than its competition, isn't it?
The Z06 shaped Vette with the garden variety engine would be the Fixed Roof Coupe (FRC). There are a few exterior details that sets it apart from the Z06 though.
I just want everyone to know that this thread has baby jesus in tears. Also, given where I live, if I had to choose between the Z06 and RS4 as a daily driver, the choice is easy. RS4 for the win. Not that I wouldn't mind owning a Z06.
nthfinity
01-22-2007, 12:52 AM
173 mph in the top of 5th at 6700? wherever OEM is set to.
Find me one of it's competitors who pulls with 340 ft. lbs. at redline at 170+ mph. The porsche would touch 180ish, the Ferrari 360 180 ish, and anything lesser 150ish...
slower top speed perhaps, but greater abilities on the track compared to the Ferrari, and the range of 911's until the GT3.
ViperASR
01-22-2007, 01:27 AM
What exactly are you planning on towing with a Murano, Minivan or Honda Pilot?
I saw that one comming. The minivan (a Nissan Quest) towes our Formula car with multiple sets of tires, tools and spares on the trailer and in the back of the van with no problem. Have been doing this with this car for a long time and car has taken it in stride.
So out of your entire tyrade, the only comeback you had was "We tow stuff with out minivan"?
Actually, out of your entire tyrade and me proving that by getting 2 cars for cheaper then 1, you started to argue about whether you could tow anything with a minivan or Pilot. Not only do we tow "stuff" but we tow our race car. Oh, but I forgot that you are the master of driving on tracks and no one else know anything else about track or autocross driving, as you tried to start an argument with me in another topic about track experience, but I let it go.
Freeway driving regularly returns 25mpg average usage, and the "skip shift" feature that has a shift gate lock out that guides you from 1st to 4th during low rpm slow speed city driving returns an urban fuel cycle usage of about 18mpg.
That would be YOUR C5 Z06. Which is modified. I believe that the LS7 would get drastically different gas milage then YOUR C5 Z06. You seem to be using your Z06 to prove some points, but we are talking about an entirly different car here.
Christ brembo - why do you insist on being a prick about this whooe debate?
I believe you started calling him an asshole, a prick, and saying he sucks dick...
(just wanted to point that fact out sense we are all so interested in facts these days :wink: )
ViperASR
01-22-2007, 01:32 AM
173 mph in the top of 5th at 6700? wherever OEM is set to.
Find me one of it's competitors who pulls with 340 ft. lbs. at redline at 170+ mph. The porsche would touch 180ish, the Ferrari 360 180 ish, and anything lesser 150ish...
slower top speed perhaps, but greater abilities on the track compared to the Ferrari, and the range of 911's until the GT3.
Not everyone cares how much faster their car is around the Nurburgring then you car, especially when you have to live with it everyday. Jeremy Clakson even made a joke about people like that in his Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder review. :wink:
Speaking of Clarkson, he even said that the Z06 would be a bad car to have everyday. His opinion is close to mine about the Z06, one hellova great car, but not for me or him everyday.
nthfinity
01-22-2007, 01:52 AM
173 mph in the top of 5th at 6700? wherever OEM is set to.
Find me one of it's competitors who pulls with 340 ft. lbs. at redline at 170+ mph. The porsche would touch 180ish, the Ferrari 360 180 ish, and anything lesser 150ish...
slower top speed perhaps, but greater abilities on the track compared to the Ferrari, and the range of 911's until the GT3.
Not everyone cares how much faster their car is around the Nurburgring then you car, especially when you have to live with it everyday. Jeremy Clakson even made a joke about people like that in his Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder review. :wink:
Speaking of Clarkson, he even said that the Z06 would be a bad car to have everyday. His opinion is close to mine about the Z06, one hellova great car, but not for me or him everyday.
would you appreciate an unbiased review of somebody who has a C6 Z06, and uses it as a daily driver in the rough riding roads of Michigan?
That would be YOUR C5 Z06. Which is modified. I believe that the LS7 would get drastically different gas milage then YOUR C5 Z06. You seem to be using your Z06 to prove some points, but we are talking about an entirly different car here.
Actually I was NOT talking about my car at all.. but rather the C6 Z06..
The C6 Z)6 does not get charged gas guzzler tax.. it has an 16/26mpg rating :)
Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.
So, are you saying that this body shell wasn't available with the 'garden engine'. I'm pretty sure I knew a guy who bought one, when they were new.
Another thing I was surprised to read, was that the official top speed for the C5 Z06 was only 176 mph (limited by redline in 5th). That's quite a bit slower than its competition, isn't it?
The Z06 shaped Vette with the garden variety engine would be the Fixed Roof Coupe (FRC). There are a few exterior details that sets it apart from the Z06 though.
I just want everyone to know that this thread has baby jesus in tears. Also, given where I live, if I had to choose between the Z06 and RS4 as a daily driver, the choice is easy. RS4 for the win. Not that I wouldn't mind owning a Z06.
That means you are willing to spend the entire summer driving an overweight pig?
BTW the FRC was on sale in 1999 and 2000, and came with the 345bhp LS1, only black interior, only stick shift, power drivers and manual passanger seat (it's a sports car after all and weight savings is the goal), Z51 suspension, lighter thinner front and rear glass... pretty much the performance Corvette of the day.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/images/design/99specs.jpg
pitfield
01-22-2007, 05:04 AM
Idiot.
ViperASR
01-22-2007, 11:37 AM
173 mph in the top of 5th at 6700? wherever OEM is set to.
Find me one of it's competitors who pulls with 340 ft. lbs. at redline at 170+ mph. The porsche would touch 180ish, the Ferrari 360 180 ish, and anything lesser 150ish...
slower top speed perhaps, but greater abilities on the track compared to the Ferrari, and the range of 911's until the GT3.
Not everyone cares how much faster their car is around the Nurburgring then you car, especially when you have to live with it everyday. Jeremy Clakson even made a joke about people like that in his Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder review. :wink:
Speaking of Clarkson, he even said that the Z06 would be a bad car to have everyday. His opinion is close to mine about the Z06, one hellova great car, but not for me or him everyday.
would you appreciate an unbiased review of somebody who has a C6 Z06, and uses it as a daily driver in the rough riding roads of Michigan?
Its all up to personal preference though. I have friends get in my car and complain about how low it is and how rough the suspension is. I don't notice that stuff anymore, so it dosnt bother me driving that kind of car around everyday. I havnt driven a C6 Zo6 yet, but from what I have heard, the suspension is pretty rough. Im working on getting a ride/drive though, as one of my dads business partners just bought one :twisted:
Im working on getting a ride/drive though, as one of my dads business partners just bought one :twisted:
Better yet, why not just walk up to him and tell him his car is a slow, bad handling, junky, poorly built piece of trash :P
let us know how that goes ;)
Im working on getting a ride/drive though, as one of my dads business partners just bought one :twisted:
Better yet, why not just walk up to him and tell him his car is a slow, bad handling, junky, poorly built piece of trash :P
let us know how that goes ;)
If he are anything like you he will probably kill him, if he is normal he will laugh and take it as a joke...
However if Viper is anything like you, we will all know it wasn't meant as joke.
nthfinity
01-22-2007, 06:00 PM
173 mph in the top of 5th at 6700? wherever OEM is set to.
Find me one of it's competitors who pulls with 340 ft. lbs. at redline at 170+ mph. The porsche would touch 180ish, the Ferrari 360 180 ish, and anything lesser 150ish...
slower top speed perhaps, but greater abilities on the track compared to the Ferrari, and the range of 911's until the GT3.
Not everyone cares how much faster their car is around the Nurburgring then you car, especially when you have to live with it everyday. Jeremy Clakson even made a joke about people like that in his Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder review. :wink:
Speaking of Clarkson, he even said that the Z06 would be a bad car to have everyday. His opinion is close to mine about the Z06, one hellova great car, but not for me or him everyday.
would you appreciate an unbiased review of somebody who has a C6 Z06, and uses it as a daily driver in the rough riding roads of Michigan?
Its all up to personal preference though. I have friends get in my car and complain about how low it is and how rough the suspension is. I don't notice that stuff anymore, so it dosnt bother me driving that kind of car around everyday. I havnt driven a C6 Zo6 yet, but from what I have heard, the suspension is pretty rough. Im working on getting a ride/drive though, as one of my dads business partners just bought one :twisted:
how about a comparison to a NSX and Carrera GT and F430 (spyder) in terms of the car's handling, and suspension feel? might that validate the car's abilities and feel in a reader's (such as you) mind?
Im working on getting a ride/drive though, as one of my dads business partners just bought one :twisted:
Better yet, why not just walk up to him and tell him his car is a slow, bad handling, junky, poorly built piece of trash :P
let us know how that goes ;)
If he are anything like you he will probably kill him, if he is normal he will laugh and take it as a joke...
However if Viper is anything like you, we will all know it wasn't meant as joke.
LOL yeah I am known for being serious.....you really nail them one after another dont you RC.... :lol:
Don't try backpedal now.. you are not going to try and now say "this whole time I was just joking" - because we all know were not.
nthfinity
01-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Brembo,
Is there a reason you don't like the Z06?
I don't like the McLAren F1 because its a shoddy handler (objective) that was touted as the ultimate fanboy car (subjective), and ultimately didn't deliver to those who know; ugly (subjective), and is the ultimate in hipocracy of the european expressed opinion (good through great handling, with minimal needed power). (subjective and objective)
TopGearNL
01-22-2007, 06:43 PM
/\/\ You drive an Audi RS2, nice car that 8)
TopGearNL
01-22-2007, 06:59 PM
/\/\ You drive an Audi RS2, nice car that 8)
Well most people wouldnt know that as I havnt preached it some does, and most people might not even know what it is...
The father to the current fast Audi's if you ask me. Audi working together with Porsche, thats a great combination!
Fast car back then, fast car even by todays standards!
sentra_dude
01-22-2007, 06:59 PM
how about a comparison to a NSX and Carrera GT and F430 (spyder) in terms of the car's handling, and suspension feel? might that validate the car's abilities and feel in a reader's (such as you) mind?
Please inform us... :P
ViperASR
01-22-2007, 07:37 PM
I would also like to point out (again), as Brembo just has that we never said the Z06 was utter crap. We are just pointing out that the car has flaws that deter us from liking the car as much as sum people here do. We have both stated that we have respect for the power and the handling of the car.
666fast
01-22-2007, 07:39 PM
Considering the C5 Coupe has a large glass hatch, and the C5 Z06 has the very same profile as Convertible with Hardtiop and an actual trunk - the car is quite distinct.
So, are you saying that this body shell wasn't available with the 'garden engine'. I'm pretty sure I knew a guy who bought one, when they were new.
Another thing I was surprised to read, was that the official top speed for the C5 Z06 was only 176 mph (limited by redline in 5th). That's quite a bit slower than its competition, isn't it?
The Z06 shaped Vette with the garden variety engine would be the Fixed Roof Coupe (FRC). There are a few exterior details that sets it apart from the Z06 though.
I just want everyone to know that this thread has baby jesus in tears. Also, given where I live, if I had to choose between the Z06 and RS4 as a daily driver, the choice is easy. RS4 for the win. Not that I wouldn't mind owning a Z06.
That means you are willing to spend the entire summer driving an overweight pig?
BTW the FRC was on sale in 1999 and 2000, and came with the 345bhp LS1, only black interior, only stick shift, power drivers and manual passanger seat (it's a sports car after all and weight savings is the goal), Z51 suspension, lighter thinner front and rear glass... pretty much the performance Corvette of the day.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/images/design/99specs.jpg
Notice I said "given where I live". IF I had to choose one, then yes, I'd happily spend my summer driving an overwieght pig. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean I have to agree. Complete opposite actually, I'd love to have one.
I'm not dissing the Z06, I'd love to have one of them as well. If I were in the position to do so, I'd have both.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean I have to agree.
And vice versa... BTW there is no need to get angrily defensive - I'm not brembo or everso. And don't believe I have ever derided or attacked you and have no reason to. BEsides - the majority of my response was for tforth - so sorry for getting you in the cross fire ;)
Complete opposite actually, I'd love to have one.
I'm not dissing the Z06, I'd love to have one of them as well. If I were in the position to do so, I'd have both.
But not everyone is in the position to have both - and I know a number of folks who would rather have an allout sports car for summer, and a pickup for winter ;)
because being at the back of the pack on summer fun runs.. is no fun :P
666fast
01-22-2007, 08:50 PM
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean I have to agree.
And vice versa... BTW there is no need to get angrily defensive - I'm not brembo or everso. And don't believe I have ever derided or attacked you and have no reason to. BEsides - the majority of my response was for tforth - so sorry for getting you in the cross fire ;)
Complete opposite actually, I'd love to have one.
I'm not dissing the Z06, I'd love to have one of them as well. If I were in the position to do so, I'd have both.
But not everyone is in the position to have both - and I know a number of folks who would rather have an allout sports car for summer, and a pickup for winter ;)
because being at the back of the pack on summer fun runs.. is no fun :P
I'm not getting angry, far from it. I tend not to angry with people over the internets, waste of time IMO! :lol:
If I were angry, I'm sure I could have come up with something a little more condescending and insulting!
I'm a firm believer on spending your money however you see fit, as far as I'm concerned, it's no one elses business to question it. You know, unless they are buying drugs and such.
Either way, in the grand scheme of things, 70k is a lot of money, whether you spend it on an RS4 or Vette. My thoughts are this: Buy the RS4 because it can do everything and anything I need it to do (including winter driving) all the while still being plenty quick for fun summer days. It could even be fun on a track day.
Hell, how many junker VW GTI's are being flogged at auto crosses and track days on any given day? A whole lot of them, I personally know 6 different guys all with Mk1 GTI's. Just because it isn't the fastest thing on wheels surely doesn't mean it isn't fun, same goes for the RS4.
However, if I lived in an area that allowed me to use a Z06 as a daily driver, then yes, it would be mighty tempting. Not that it matters though, as I'll never live in an area that will allow that. Snowboarding trumps owning fancy cars every day of the week for me. :lol:
Again, it was never my intention to get angrily defensive. My apologies if it came across that way.
Again, it was never my intention to get angrily defensive. My apologies if it came across that way.
No - my apologies.. :)
nthfinity
01-22-2007, 10:19 PM
Brembo,
Is there a reason you don't like the Z06?
I don't like the McLAren F1 because its a shoddy handler (objective) that was touted as the ultimate fanboy car (subjective), and ultimately didn't deliver to those who know; ugly (subjective), and is the ultimate in hipocracy of the european expressed opinion (good through great handling, with minimal needed power). (subjective and objective)
Hey nice to see a reply that doesnt involve insults as a startup.....
Well I actually like the Z06.... :shock:.....I know....
The thing is I really like the Z06 and respect it tremendously for what it can do on a track both the C5 and the C6.
I have watched quite alot of RC`s vids and the sound of his car are pure pleasure to my ears....
As an track car I think its a great car I dont belive the gearbox are the greatest, and I know the ride can be alittle harsh...(not from JC or other car journalist, but from a friend of mine who had the pleasure of driving one quite alot)...
The far most reason I end up in arguments about the Z06 are not because I am an idiot who think its American therby cant take a turn, its when someone try and make it out to be something its not...
Its a great fast car, but its not a low gas milage car...compared to other cars with high powered engines it is decent,but not low in the real sense of the word, its a two seater so its not practical pr definiton of practical and so on...
The Z06 have so much going for it in the performance department theres no need trying to make it out like it have a great interior as we know thats wrong, its ok but nothing more......
I appriciate a fast car as I own one wich by some standards can be considered fast at least when it came 12 years ago...
So I understand where RC are coming from when he preach the Z06`s greatnes, but when he try and make it out to something its not I will get in his face, and when someone always try and put in a comment about how great something are, myself and alot of people get feed up with it...
I dont know what car you drive infhinity maybe you know what car I drive maybe not,but most people on JW doesnt know what car I drive, while everyone on JW know what RC drives and his car are a "one in a million" car compared to mine I dont feel the need to scream look at me and my car.....like it seem RC need to do...
As I said eralier in this thread the Z06`s worst enemy are not us who like Euro cars, its RC..... :|
I agree with you on the macca tough.... :D
:Twisted: :D
about RC... I know where he's coming from by a great margin... it only took a year to weed out most of the "corvette is american, no way it can handle" crowed; and they still pop up every so often.
Then there are the "its american, it can't possibly be quality" crowed; which again is a farce at best... and they are still running rampant spreading heresay without so much as a shred of knowledge... after working for a supplier, we supply anybody who thinks our bids are the best... we make quality (and/or shit) material for any and all of the companies from Germany to Japan to Korea and the USA... to think that Germany's fake brushed alluminum interior trim is any better then the crap that is in the Lincoln zypher is a farce.... besides shape... its the same material, and same fit and finish.... just for a good example. Wear and tear is no different.... you'll find plenty of Florida cars with cracking dashboards... but not even VW accurately model that.
for example, some people don't care for their car in the Florida sun.. roll up the windows, and let 'er bake in excess of 200 F, open the doors, roll down the windows, and crank the A/C on..... you can see where i'm going... even VW's, Audi's, BMW's, and any fool stupid enough wiht a Ferrari, or Maybach will have the same problem before much of the term of lease/ownership has passed.
some cars are good in some areas, and shit in others... this is true in VW, Audi, Chevy, Chrysler, and Ford etc. etc. etc. building to a price has it's drawbacks; but also makes for a more affordable car where at the end of the day the car isn't hiding behind fake appointments, it is just what it is.
BTW, Tiff's RS2 video was one of the first TG videos i had ever seen, and wondered why such an amazing ride wasn't available here... pitty, it is damn cool ;) (i've known you've had the RS since i was a 7 post n00b here ) :P
but when he try and make it out to something its not I will get in his face, and when someone always try and put in a comment about how great something are, myself and alot of people get feed up with it...
Where have I tried to make it out to be what it's not? I have gone to great lennths to say it is not the perfect car
Why would I say it is something it is not? YOU have got it in your mind I have said that - so when ever I do say something you make outlike it is a pack of lies - instead of actually reading the text typed.
I dont feel the need to scream look at me and my car.....like it seem RC need to do...
See - right there is the utter fucking bullshit you are typing - RIGHT there.
Christ - Iam NOT saying "look at me and my car" - On the contrary - I am saying "When you say it cant handle you are worng - when you say it is utter shit interior you are wrong - when you say it is bad gas mileage you are wrong"
That is what I am saying - I am correcting the utter fucking bullshit lies you are spewing about it.
Taht's a big difference - but you continue to try make it soun dlike I am saying "LOOK AT ME AN DMY PERFECT CAR" - Which is NOT what I am saying - and you know it - you are just being a prick- plain and simple.
As I said eralier in this thread the Z06`s worst enemy are not us who like Euro cars, its RC..... :|
Why? Because I call you out on the subject lies and crap you spread? No - thats just YOu not liking someone taking you to task for spreading subjective false hoods.
If you made a measured and tempered statement like "Many American cars do not have ultra expensive and unneeded oppulant fancy interiors" this would be a more reasonable and honest statement -- Not "Hey all American cars suck because they are shit and poor plastic blah blah blah"
I don't even drive a Cadillac but if you came around telling bullshit about them I would be just as vocal in calling out the false statements - same for Porsche - but then again noone ever utters a bad world about them even though they are far from perfect as well :roll:
If you can't see the difference and honestly look at what you are saying then yo uare simply choosing to look past reality.
:(
tforth
01-23-2007, 12:54 AM
From page 1 of this thread:
RC45 wrote:
It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver when compared to the competition - You can get 2 full size golf bags and a couple of piese of luggage int eh Vette - so youcan use the car on Sunday at the race track, Monday and Tuesday for client meetings - then take that senator you are trying to bribe out to golf on Wednrsday - take the day off Thursday for a country drive - Friday take the mistress to the moveis, and Saturday take the wife to the opera...
All in the same car...
It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver..? You are the only person I have heard make this claim, and this where I believe people have gotten the impression that you are trying to make the C6 Z06 the best car outright (and of course your C5 Z06 by association).
"...take the wife to the opera..." Come on, maybe your trailer park queen. In general, women who frequent operas, are not into corvettes. From the language you seem to prefer, I doubt that they would be interested in its owner either.
From page 1 of this thread:
RC45 wrote:
It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver when compared to the competition - You can get 2 full size golf bags and a couple of piese of luggage int eh Vette - so youcan use the car on Sunday at the race track, Monday and Tuesday for client meetings - then take that senator you are trying to bribe out to golf on Wednrsday - take the day off Thursday for a country drive - Friday take the mistress to the moveis, and Saturday take the wife to the opera...
All in the same car...
It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver..?
Nice taking the comment our of context.
The full quote would read:
"It is a superbly comfortable spacious daily driver when compared to the competition "
When compared to the competion... the competion being Viper, GT3, 911Turbo, F430 etc etc.
Please stop being a prick and selectively quoting outof context.
Ok?
You are the only person I have heard make this claim, and this where I believe people have gotten the impression that you are trying to make the C6 Z06 the best car outright (and of course your C5 Z06 by association).
Again - stop being a total nob - If you are not comparing the car to its competition then you are being a complete idiot.
"...take the wife to the opera..." Come on, maybe your trailer park queen.
Right there you stepped over the line - Screw you.
Stick to the topic and don't drag family into this - I mean the appropriate respones to this is your hooker mother and crack whore wife seem to have no trouble in the front seat of the RS4. But I have yet to see them come up for air since they started working the corner of 11th and Main. :roll: but I will restrain myself.
You really are a loser if you have to restort to this type of crap to try "debate" a subject you are obviously being a prick about.
In general, women who frequent operas, are not into corvettes.
Really? Thats another pretty stupid generalisation.
From the language you seem to prefer, I doubt that they would be interested in its owner either.
See above.
You have not made a single valid point since you arrived on these forums - everything you have posted has been a subjective piece of nonsense. Thats right - you have not posted a single accurate fact
nthfinity
01-23-2007, 01:38 AM
actually, besides talking about working for the auto industry, i've seen no evidence that he's been anything but a lacky based on his exquisite knowledge from 38 years of existance?
tforth, perhaps the wind has changed 180 degrees where you are trying to come off as the proverbial expert, but nearly everything you've posted (or everything) has been utter BS lacking substance to support your claims.
questions on interior... sure I'm a much better expert then you are, questions on valve duration, I'll give that to you.... maybe... again, you may just be a lacky.
philip
01-23-2007, 01:57 AM
I thought I would post my first picture of Barrett-Jackson here as this is becomming my favorite thread.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/703/zo6stickersmall20071ml.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zo6stickersmall20071ml.jpg)
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1289/zo6interiorsmall20079yz.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zo6interiorsmall20079yz.jpg) http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2755/zo6exteriorsmall20071yo.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zo6exteriorsmall20071yo.jpg)
If you look carefully you can see what you have to pay for a ZO6, its interior, and the exterior.
This is from the commercial exhibits at the entrance of Barrett-Jackson
For the money this seems one hell of a buy.
philip
01-23-2007, 05:47 PM
Since someone has mentioned Audi in this tread, I realize they are better than they once were, but I owned a 924 once and two of my friends owned luxury Audi sedans back in the 80's and they were all crap. It will be along time and a lot more LeMans victorys before I would get another Audi. They have always been pretty, but so is the worm on the end of the hook to a fish.
The interiors on C1 and early C2 Corvettes are awsome, then they went down hill. The new ZO6 looked fine to me inside , it probably looks really good after stomping some Eurocar at a light.
philip
01-23-2007, 07:16 PM
I'll sit in an F40, or that 5 million dollar Cobra at Barrett-Jackson any day of the week and never complain.
I actually have an old friend who drove a real 289 Cobra to college every day and bitched about how bad it was in the winter. (he lived in Michigan, sold the car after college for $5000 and got something more practical)
You always spew how great the car are in every sapect when it comes to track times for instance I dont think its possible to count how many times you have mentioned the Z06 does the NS in 7.42..we heard you the first million times.....
yet still people state bogus things like "can't handle - is crap in the turns" etc etc
I never said it had poor gas milage I said it have poor gas milage compared to car who actually got great gas milage the vette get decent gas milage for what it is.
Again - why are you comparing to Honda Civic Hybrids? I don't see yo uocmparing the F430 to a Honda Civic Hybrid?
At least try stay on topic and keep things in context.. but be that as it may - it is still better gas mileage than its performance peers, and even some non-performance peers.
I stand by the interior are poor as I actually live with American cars in my daily life, hell even you have said its bad, you have also said the vette have poor quallity.....all this are not twisting the facts....
Its all relative though - and in context... anyone who thinks the F360 interior, as an example, is "teh best in the world" is kidding themselve.. and even a BMW330i has a better interior than an F360 - but thats not the point is it?
Dont generalize me, I do not say american cars are crap cuz they are american, I back my statments up on why I think its crap and have done so in the past...
But just because you think so - doesn't make it so - thanks in your opinion ;)
if you have another opinion on whats good quallity than me its just a matter of opinion..
Again - have youactually looked closely at the 2001 Lamborghini and ferrari interiors? Keep things in context.
If you are happy with what I would call a shitty interior its fine by me I dont care...I dont care that you think my Audi are crap its a matter of opinion thats all....
But again - keep it in context - sports cars are sports cars.. not limousines.
You say that European cars have unneeded oppulant fancy interiors, thats your opinion, when we pay...lets say $70k we expect to get a great car thruout and not spend 70k and be stuck in something that look and feels like it came from tupperware
In your opinion - not fact - in your opinion and out of context - Have you taken a close look at some sports cars lately?
I see the difference and know what I am saying, its you who are incapable of thinking outside what your needs and that your standards are not the same as the rest of the world...
On the contrary - I am not even quoting needs - I am quoting facts more thna half the time - facts youthen dispute with opinion.
You are happy with the Z06`s interior, but wouldnt have a 28" tv in your living room while someone from Norway might be happy with that....
Again - you are out of context and not using common sense - you atre the one judging luxury sedan vs sports car - not I.
Just take it easy RC and dont try and put in something about the vette in every thread you have a chance....people are getting tired of it and picks on it because of that... :wink:
Actually - again, I only respond to trash posts of opinion made as if they are fact.
nthfinity
01-23-2007, 11:42 PM
brembo...
part of owning a car, IMO, is when you are on the street you make the other guy feel like he has the wrong car... ego boost in a Z06 isn't so bad you have to admit ;)
I'll sit in an F40, or that 5 million dollar Cobra at Barrett-Jackson any day of the week and never complain.
I actually have an old friend who drove a real 289 Cobra to college every day and bitched about how bad it was in the winter. (he lived in Michigan, sold the car after college for $5000 and got something more practical)
unless it was in nearly irreparable damage, it wasn't a real cobra @ 5,000. I know more then a few real 289's, FIA 289's, and a few 427's around... but 5,000 no way it was real, just rela fun ;)
tforth
01-24-2007, 12:15 AM
nthfinity wrote:
tforth, perhaps the wind has changed 180 degrees where you are trying to come off as the proverbial expert, but nearly everything you've posted (or everything) has been utter BS lacking substance to support your claims.
Wow! Take a look at what I have posted, why don't you. Unlike yourself, I don't hide behind "if you only knew what I knew, but I'm held to mission impossible secrecy, so I can't tell you" crap. I have provided specific hard data either directly in the thread, or provided the specific details of where the info. came from.
One of the things I find interesting about all this, is that prior to reading RC go on and on about how the Z06 can take your wife to opera, etc., I thought the car was an amazing achievement for GM. Now, I find it much harder to see through all that purple haze that has been thrown up.
And regarding your (nthfinity) other comment about a Z06 boosting your ego; this is a very bad sign of low self esteem. I guess this something you have in common with your buddy. For me, the only thing I didn't like about that yellow GTS coupe that I drove for a couple of weekends, was all of the attention it attracted. I guess, I am quite a bit different than you in that I like to drive fast, where ever possible. Attracting attention (especially from the police) is NOT what any rational person would want.
philip
01-24-2007, 12:21 AM
I think he sold it in '69. I just read a story about a guy who owns the last made C1 Corvette. He bought it for $1000. Back then they were just old cars. A Ferrari GTO was probably only a little more than $5000 back then.
The story in the papers today was about a 77 sf 1 room apartment in Knightsbridge in London that is for sale for $330,000 and its a fixerupper.
Makes cars seem cheap by comparison.
nthfinity
01-24-2007, 12:22 AM
nthfinity wrote:
tforth, perhaps the wind has changed 180 degrees where you are trying to come off as the proverbial expert, but nearly everything you've posted (or everything) has been utter BS lacking substance to support your claims.
Wow! Take a look at what I have posted, why don't you. Unlike yourself, I don't hide behind "if you only knew what I knew, but I'm held to mission impossible secrecy, so I can't tell you" crap. I have provided specific hard data either directly in the thread, or provided the specific details of where the info. came from.
One of the things I find interesting about all this, is that prior to reading RC go on and on about how the Z06 can take your wife to opera, etc., I thought the car was an amazing achievement for GM. Now, I find it much harder to see through all that purple haze that has been thrown up.
And regarding your (nthfinity) other comment about a Z06 boosting your ego; this is a very bad sign of low self esteem. I guess this something you have in common with your buddy. For me, the only thing I didn't like about that yellow GTS coupe that I drove for a couple of weekends, was all of the attention it attracted. I guess, I am quite a bit different than you in that I like to drive fast, where ever possible. Attracting attention (especially from the police) is NOT what any rational person would want.
OMG
your still an idiot, taking any and everything out of context. Anybody who knows me,let alone many other Z, F, P, and many many other car owners I know... self esteem is far from an issue. Do you now have a degree in psychology LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
congratulations on not liking being seen in a Viper GTS (or was that Ferrari?) I don't care if you don't like being seen, perhaps you have a similar social disorder of the mind where you don't want to come out, as the world is a scary place! :roll: sheesh, wherever you people come from, it is obviously not a place full of enthusiasts, logic oriented analysts, nor a debate club :P
sorry I can't tell you about my job, but unlike you? I actually feel obliged not to tell secrets which I have contractually agreed not to release. Go figure, but I'm an honest guy.
tforth
01-24-2007, 12:43 AM
congratulations on not liking being seen in a Viper GTS (or was that Ferrari?) I don't care if you don't like being seen, perhaps you have a similar social disorder of the mind where you don't want to come out, as the world is a scary place! sheesh, wherever you people come from, it is obviously not a place full of enthusiasts, logic oriented analysts, nor a debate club
Tell me, do you buy a car for you, or for everybody else to lust after? Why don't you just save your money and not buy an expensive/flashy car, and just pay everybody you're trying to impress directly. They'll probably appreciate the change in your approach.
I live in area where there are a lot of 'high end cars', and I think that it's a huge missed opportunity that most of them will never realize even a fraction of the design/development costs that go into them. Why, because somewhat like you, they are more concerned about what other people think of their ride, than how much enjoyment they could get out of it by simply flooring the throttle, or driving through an on ramp. The only upside as I see it? These people all subsidize the true enthusiasts by bringing lots more volume to the class, which, in a way makes it much cheaper for everybody.
tforth - all this bragging and nothing to show for it.
The Jabbasworld community is built on a reputation of "Pictures - or shut the fuck up".
So - its about time you put some substance to all this bullshit bragging you arte doing.
Seriously - Pictures or STFU - according to the rules of JW until you start showing some validaiton to you rclaims you are being labelled a BULLSHITTER.
1st Class Bullshitter until you offer some proof of you r"credentials and bragging claims".
No more fictitious kids stories.
Period.
nthfinity
01-24-2007, 04:57 PM
congratulations on not liking being seen in a Viper GTS (or was that Ferrari?) I don't care if you don't like being seen, perhaps you have a similar social disorder of the mind where you don't want to come out, as the world is a scary place! sheesh, wherever you people come from, it is obviously not a place full of enthusiasts, logic oriented analysts, nor a debate club
Tell me, do you buy a car for you, or for everybody else to lust after? Why don't you just save your money and not buy an expensive/flashy car, and just pay everybody you're trying to impress directly. They'll probably appreciate the change in your approach.
I live in area where there are a lot of 'high end cars', and I think that it's a huge missed opportunity that most of them will never realize even a fraction of the design/development costs that go into them. Why, because somewhat like you, they are more concerned about what other people think of their ride, than how much enjoyment they could get out of it by simply flooring the throttle, or driving through an on ramp. The only upside as I see it? These people all subsidize the true enthusiasts by bringing lots more volume to the class, which, in a way makes it much cheaper for everybody.
wow, again you have completely missunderstood me somehow? quote me where I said anything remotely like that. I live work, and breathe the automotive industry; to say that I don't know what goes into the car is simply ignorant. Congratulations on living around high end cars, welcome to the club :roll:
and since when is a C6 Z06 "the car to be seen in" LOL laughable at best, I dont know how, but you keep digging yourself further and further in a hole. Your arguments are no longer valid, rather personal attacks based on nothing. go back to that tower you came down from.
:)
http://www.tatuagemdaboa.com.br/tatuagem.asp?seunome=Vette%20Z06&nomeamigo=tforth
:)
nthfinity
01-25-2007, 04:36 PM
http://revlovers.luka.de/myBB/search.php?action=results&sid=6b150cf8cfbd7883b68fbd16ad2d16de
It seems that mr tforth is actually a posh fanboy who may actually be concerned with exotics, and would like to own the cars... but not be seen in them LOl... hey, at least he is conserned with laptimes, which he obviously isn't here for some reason LOL.
BTW, if I were conserned with what people think of me like you suggest, why on earth would i buy a Z06? the Z06 is in fact the car to own if you appreciate hitting the throttle on a winding road, is it not? I just can't get over how silly your arguments have become, and how so very far out of reality they are :?
tforth
01-25-2007, 09:03 PM
nthfinity wrote:
BTW, if I were conserned with what people think of me like you suggest, why on earth would i buy a Z06?
Because you said this on the previous page:
part of owning a car, IMO, is when you are on the street you make the other guy feel like he has the wrong car... ego boost in a Z06 isn't so bad you have to admit
You quoted the NS lap time of 7:42 instead of 7:43 (as it was listed) because you thought it would help your argument. You guys are clearly not biased, right?
Look all you want at my posts. If you're objective, you'll notice that they are very consistent. I don't B.S. BTW, while you were performing 'reference checks' at revlovers.com, did you actually learn something about the Veyron, that I have been stating for quite some time now??
nthfinity
01-25-2007, 09:23 PM
nthfinity wrote:
BTW, if I were conserned with what people think of me like you suggest, why on earth would i buy a Z06?
Because you said this on the previous page:
part of owning a car, IMO, is when you are on the street you make the other guy feel like he has the wrong car... ego boost in a Z06 isn't so bad you have to admit
You quoted the NS lap time of 7:42 instead of 7:43 (as it was listed) because you thought it would help your argument. You guys are clearly not biased, right?
Look all you want at my posts. If you're objective, you'll notice that they are very consistent. I don't B.S. BTW, while you were performing 'reference checks' at revlovers.com, did you actually learn something about the Veyron, that I have been stating for quite some time now??
7:42.9, 7:42 = with the .9 seconds truncated off. I never claimed i was rounding, and exactly how much difference is .9 of a second.... count aloud, and your own accuracy is within +- .5 of a second. So, again, how is this any bias? Corvette released thier lap time to the tenth, Porsche have not, nor have Sport Auto. So, we don't really know about that GT3 RS, now do we? and No, hte C6 Z06 did not run NS in 7:43... you are somehow seeing that as a meathod to push your opinion through clear bias...
I would much prefer the Porsche given that money is no object; I have made this clear from the get go. You obviously wouldn't since you don't want to be seen in a more expensive car in a district with plenty of expensive cars, since you obviously believe that they don't enjoy them for what they are made for. You are clearly biased against the vette. That is fine, it is engineered very well, but built to a price.. yet does what no car in it's price bracket can dream of. That is the vette, and has been that way for quite some time.
nobody was being biased, think whatever you want, you are still so very far away from being a factboy
I have learned quite a bit about the Veyron from the test driver's themselves
as to me being conserned about what car i'm in? man you are really streatching.... in a superbly and abhorent analogy.
so, If I owned a Z06, and beat the living piss out of it, and beat a Gallardo on the street, what is wrong with having satisfaction that your friend in the Lamborghini couldn't keep up with you? what does that have to do with "being seen" in any car? WTF mate, it is called a palpable enjoyment and pride in what you own, and your own driving abliities. It has nothing to do with anybody else.
I am a automotive enthusiast, and IF i wanted a car just to go from point A to point B, I would get a 4x4, or any car that met the funciton. You obviously haven't had a group of friends (let alone large group of friends) who share that kind of passion for the performance car, the historical car, and automotive design.
My blood runs rich in automotive history, racing, engineering, and the kinship with the movers and shakers of Detroit, and fellow enthusiasts; and I wouldn't have it any other way.
If you want to dilude yourself further that a car is only meant to be had fun with on a personal level, go ahead, and continue your isolationist thoughts.... but I contend that you are not that way; as if you were, you wouldn't have registered, and posted at either JW, or Revlovers. So I welcome you to the fray, and suggest that as goofy as your arguments have been the past few days, we aren't so dissimilar.
we both love track driving (at least I assume you do, since you are interested in track times) and we are both involved in the industry (at least it seems as you are) and we are both registered at a world car forum or few. If you come to Detroit, I can definately point you in some interesting directions ;)
Look all you want at my posts. If you're objective, you'll notice that they are very consistent. I don't B.S. BTW, while you were performing 'reference checks' at revlovers.com, did you actually learn something about the Veyron, that I have been stating for quite some time now??
all this bragging and nothing to show for it.
The Jabbasworld community is built on a reputation of "Pictures - or shut the fuck up".
So - its about time you put some substance to all this bullshit bragging you arte doing.
Seriously - Pictures or STFU - according to the rules of JW until you start showing some validaiton to you rclaims you are being labelled a BULLSHITTER.
1st Class Bullshitter until you offer some proof of your "credentials and bragging claims". Be that photos of drives, cars you have interacted with, videos of you and you rpals having fun etc etc.
Seriously - it's nothing personal, that's just hwo the rules work around here. You make claims - you back em up.
Period.
tforth
01-25-2007, 11:37 PM
Well, the majority of stuff that is running around here right now are either Range Rovers, ML/GLs, X5s, Q7s, etc. The interesting stuff has been 'asleep' for a while now. Don't get me wrong, I don't live in Monte Carlo, or anything. I just get frustrated, when I see all this 'wasted' product around me.
Another rather more embarrassing reason why I haven't provided any pics so far, is that I haven't quite figured out the whole imageshack thing... Believe me, it would have taken a lot less time to just scan the pages and post them, then to have typed them in! Don't worry though; I'll get around to it, as surprising as it may seem to you - I have a lot more to share than just my opinions.
Lastly, regarding nthfinity's note above, I will whole-heartedly acknowledge the enjoyment I get from 'smoking' someone in a stoplight 'event', around an on-ramp, or 'faster' cars at the track. What I don't care for, are the posers that only get satisfaction when other people lust after their vehicles/wives/houses/etc.
nthfinity
01-26-2007, 04:27 PM
Well, the majority of stuff that is running around here right now are either Range Rovers, ML/GLs, X5s, Q7s, etc. The interesting stuff has been 'asleep' for a while now. Don't get me wrong, I don't live in Monte Carlo, or anything. I just get frustrated, when I see all this 'wasted' product around me.
Another rather more embarrassing reason why I haven't provided any pics so far, is that I haven't quite figured out the whole imageshack thing... Believe me, it would have taken a lot less time to just scan the pages and post them, then to have typed them in! Don't worry though; I'll get around to it, as surprising as it may seem to you - I have a lot more to share than just my opinions.
Lastly, regarding nthfinity's note above, I will whole-heartedly acknowledge the enjoyment I get from 'smoking' someone in a stoplight 'event', around an on-ramp, or 'faster' cars at the track. What I don't care for, are the posers that only get satisfaction when other people lust after their vehicles/wives/houses/etc.
I knew we are more similar then the 6 pages of arguments that we've had ;)
philip
02-10-2007, 06:29 PM
Not to open up old wounds, well maybe really to open up old wounds, Car and Driver did a comparo between the ZO6 the GT3 and the Lotus S. The ZO6 was number one, but it did only win by 1 point in CD's testing proceedure. The Lotus was 3rd.
It was one of those typical subjective tests where the faster car won, but only by a little since they liked the interior so much better in the Porsche. Since they were journalists they didnt care that the Porsche was $60,000 more.
This was only a GT3 not the GT3RS used in this threads test.
TopGearNL
02-10-2007, 07:39 PM
Look all you want at my posts. If you're objective, you'll notice that they are very consistent. I don't B.S. BTW, while you were performing 'reference checks' at revlovers.com, did you actually learn something about the Veyron, that I have been stating for quite some time now??
all this bragging and nothing to show for it.
The Jabbasworld community is built on a reputation of "Pictures - or shut the fuck up".
So - its about time you put some substance to all this bullshit bragging you arte doing.
Seriously - Pictures or STFU - according to the rules of JW until you start showing some validaiton to you rclaims you are being labelled a BULLSHITTER.
1st Class Bullshitter until you offer some proof of your "credentials and bragging claims". Be that photos of drives, cars you have interacted with, videos of you and you rpals having fun etc etc.
Seriously - it's nothing personal, that's just hwo the rules work around here. You make claims - you back em up.
Period.
Amen RC, Amen :wink:
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.