E30 318is or E36 318is

[thepest]

from what I've seen a good, well taken care of e30 318is is harder to find from the e36. I want to buy a 318is (or any good BMW) all of my life now and I think I can come up with the money this year so I'm starting hunting again.

I don't know why but I've always like the e30 better. Not only because it's slightly faster than the e36. On the other hand, though, the e36 would be with less milage on the clock and perhaps some nice extras.

I don't know....help guys (Arman ;>)

[TopGearNL]

Another guy buying a Bimmer! :D

E30 or E36 its your personal choice thepest.. :bah:

[ARMAN]

I love both designs e30 and e36 but e30 is more special to me :twisted: I can lose track of time when I see an e30 in a good condition dont have to be tuned just original looks and bmw wheels are good enough, e36 in stock is less emotional for me but show me M3 and I'll drool all over it :mrgreen:

It depends on you ofcourse, e36 is much newer model, better safety etc.

I'd take M3E30 over M3E36 probably but I never drove any of them just was driven in M3E30 once :)

Our BMW insider Z can say more to the subjesct than we can all saw togeather :D So lets listen to him ;)

[nachete]

E30 325i :wink:

That's the one you should buy :wink: the 318 is not really powerful... and yocan only "play" with it on wet. 325i are not really expensive... and it's great fun for not much money :D

E36 is nice, but as ARMAN has said, not as emotional and exciting as a good E30

[bmwmpower]

i would go for E36, its more car, e30 is old, but why u choose 318 ? u can afford 325 e36 with 192 hp which is alot, btw in one autocar issue was comparison between all 3 series models including new E90 and first place won E36, best steering fell between them all , i thats saying alot

[thepest]

^ that really is saying a lot

and yes I was also considering a e36 325i and thos 192hp are really messing with my mind. Plus I found a very nice one and realtively cheap, but then my brain started working and I began thinking about the fuel consumption.
I hate money :(

[thepest]

Our BMW insider Z can say more to the subjesct than we can all saw togeather :D So lets listen to him ;)

I'm waiting for his comment :)

[ARMAN]

^ that really is saying a lot

and yes I was also considering a e36 325i and thos 192hp are really messing with my mind. Plus I found a very nice one and realtively cheap, but then my brain started working and I began thinking about the fuel consumption.
I hate money :(

fuel consumption is the smallest problem, e30 owners who had several e30's say that 2,5 have same consumption as 1,8(not iS) simply because its much more easyer for 171PS move the car than for 115PS. Difference was about 1l per km more than 1,8. Ofcourse if considered that you dont push the throttle to the floor in 2,5, its for easy driving :D... Damn I want 2,5! :twisted:

Insurance is the question thou, dont now how much you will have to pay for 1,8 and for 2,5.

Is it going to be your first car?

[ae86_16v]

Having owned a E30 325i, E36 328i, and E36 M3, I gotta say both the E36 and E30 are excellent cars. Had the E30 325i and the M3 at the same time.

I find that the E30 is more sturdily built in terms of the German sense. Not that the E36 is bad, but the E30 feels a bit more solid. The E36's quality is still by far better than anything Japanese out of the same era.

In terms of feature and comfort, of course that will have to go to the newer car. Plus I like the rear suspension of the E36 more than the solid axel of the E30. Definitely helps in terms of being your only car and daily driving it. Of course the E30 is a bit more "tossable" because of the lighter weight, but I like the sure footed-ness of the E36.

I have driven both versions of the M3, and definitely if you categorized "Fun" - hard to define, but the E30 M3 is more "fun". More tossable, smaller car, etc, etc. But if I had to choose one of the M3s as a daily driver and "fun" car, I would take the E36 because of the torquey engine and the more comfortable features.

In terms of maintenance, I have had the fortune of good luck with all three of my cars. Nothing spectacular except for the usually routine maintenance. As with all BMWs the weak point is always the cooling system, so make sure you replace water pump, thermostat, hoses, and maybe even the radiator at regular intervals.

The E36 318is would be dog slow though, I think the E30 318is would be sportier between those two cars. The E36 is just too heavy for the 4 Cylinder engine, and is better matched w/ the inline 6. Plus the E30 318is at least in the US is more desireable.

So between the two cars, I would take the E30, but if you could afford a 6 Cylinder, definitely try to look for a E36 as it is a better car all around.

Good luck.

[stradale]

^ that really is saying a lot

and yes I was also considering a e36 325i and thos 192hp are really messing with my mind. Plus I found a very nice one and realtively cheap, but then my brain started working and I began thinking about the fuel consumption.
I hate money :(

fuel consumption is the smallest problem, e30 owners who had several e30's say that 2,5 have same consumption as 1,8(not iS) simply because its much more easyer for 171PS move the car than for 115PS. Difference was about 1l per km more than 1,8. Ofcourse if considered that you dont push the throttle to the floor in 2,5, its for easy driving :D... Damn I want 2,5! :twisted:

Insurance is the question thou, dont now how much you will have to pay for 1,8 and for 2,5.

Is it going to be your first car?

If fuel consumption is a decisive factor, you're better off with an E36 than with an E30. E36s are usually less prone to rust as well. The E30 is more fun as it involves you more with the business of driving. The E36 is more comfortable and practical.

I don't have a great deal of experience with the E30, so I'll talk E36 from here on. Of the E36, I'd recommend the 325i. Fuel consumption of the 325i is just marginally different from the 320i, except for when you cane it all the time. If you go for a lesser model, consider that the 318is and 320i are pretty similar in performance, but very different in the way they deliver it. The 318is has a little less weight on the front wheels, being a four pot, which handles a bit better. The 320i however has a much smoother and far better sounding engine.

Perhaps this is outside your budget, but the revised E36 (from 1995) is to be preferred over the earlier models (1990-1995). From model year 1992 the teething problems the pre-1992 cars had were solved. Since the price difference between a 1991 car and a 1992 or 1993 car is almost non-existant, I'd recommend one from 1992 and younger. The easiest way to spot those is to look for the anti-windnoise "bubbles" on the side of the mirrors. From model year 1993 the six cilinder models (don't know about the four cilinders) got the variable valve control system Vanos. Torque delivery on those is a tad better than the earlier cars. Again, I don't know a lot about the four cilinder engines.

Aside from the better build quality of the revised E36, the engines are different. Even the 320i, which seems the same engine on paper is different. The M50 engine is cast iron, whereas the M52 engine is an aluminium block. The M52 engine also has Vanos. The sound and feel of the engines is notably different. That goes for the feel of throttle, clutch and gearbox too. Instead of a 320i and a 325i, the revised E36 had a 320i, a 323i (2.5 litre with more torque at lower revs and 170 hp) and a 328i.

Hope this helps!

[thepest]

wow, really helpdul comments there guys, thanks heaps.

Apman: Yes, this would be my first personal car.

I am now thinking about a e36 325i even more now. I know this car can never have the soul of an E30, but it should be the wiser decision. I don't have that much money a the car will have some km on the clock (let's say 150k+) but I hope I can make her live with me for as long as possible.

[ae86_16v]

150k km (100k miles) on a E36 should be okay. My M3 just topped 110k miles. I've seen a few E36s over 200k miles (320k km), so thats a testament to their longevity. Again, like all German cars, it is about maintenance. And preventive maintenance at that, replace things before they break.

Like I said earlier, the biggest thing about the any BMW is its cooling system. Other weak points for the E36 would be the rear shock mounts, and rear frame support. If you do not beat the crap out of your car, the rear frame should be okay, but check it anyways. The Rear shock mounts definitely need to be upgraded. And other suspension bits and brushings should be checked out. There are certain production years that have issues with the VANOS, I do not remember.

Other than those few points, the E36 should hold up well. Of course the other issue like I mentioned earlier is the interior. I feel that BMW went cheap a bit in the E36 interior, so given its age and wear, I think a E30 of the same vintage would hold up better than the E36. Nevertheless just keep looking I am sure you will find one that is in good condition.

Another note of caution, do not buy Dove Grey Interior, unless you really really really LOVE it. It looks great when new, but it is really hard to take care of. I learned that on my E36 328is (Arctic Silver on Dove Grey). In the M3, I got Alpine White on Black.

Here are some links that are useful:

http://www.edgemotorworks.com/sindex.htm (click on the E36 section).

http://tinyurl.com/uvp4q

http://www.bimmerzone.com/inspection.htm

[thepest]

^ Thank you.

I'll have those tips in mind. Pretty helpful links, too.

[ARMAN]

How much you are thinking to spend Thepest? And where are you from? :)

@Brembo - you are killing me :( The engine sound of 4 cylinder is really no killer even if I have exhaust(Supersprint). Originally I wanted cheap e30(318) after driving one 325e I wanted nothing else than straight 6! but at that time the ones I can find were in awful condition(I was one signature sign away from buying 235e but backed up in last minute) so I took 318 wich was in best condition of them all togeather :|

Must to say once you hear the sound of straight 6 you will never want anything else under the hood :twisted: You dont even need lowder exhaust it sounds AMASING! I was offered 325e with some sort exhaust man it was incredible sound :twisted:

The advantage of e30 is that the cheap one(325) costs half or third of the price of e36 and you can find tonns of cheap spear parts for e30 even used once as alot of e30's are going to the junkyard these days. You can swap for a different engine over the weekend and it will cost you only about 500€ (+- 200€).

E36 have a much younger looks no disscussion here, some e30 owners see it as a disadvantage but if you have it in a very good condition than its pretty rare and you will have people come to you and compliment you for it as it happens to me :P

[Igorionia]

so many facts and so many opinions :) And maybe one more bimmer owner.
I don't want to start all this discusion only say few facts on each car that REALLY helped me to decide:
e30 - is more drivers car than e36. Cuz e30 6cyl version got heavy front than rear. It's more fun to play with. e30 - cheaper,I'm not afraid to crash it(i don't want :) but Shit Happens) Only thing that i want from my e30 is - to learn the driving of real RWD car.
from the other side - if you want "special things" , comfort, and owning it for a long time e36 is ok. 325- is really nice car. but 328 is more economic and got more torque engine (but it costs MORE).
so FOR ME: e30 - driving practice and e36 - more everyday ride.
Friend of mine who's driving right now e36m3 said that, e30 is more FUN car than his m3 :) He really like to drift.
so...it's up to you :wink:

[inso]

I am seconding Igorionia´s opinions, E30 is more playful than E36. More simple and less things to go wrong, easy to maintain. Not to say E30 is not civilized, compared to E21, it is easy car to drive.

Like it has been mentioned before, if you go for the E36, just take the 328i, 4cylinder engines in bmw range are just expensive water kettles. 320i is slowish, 325i needs more torq and 328i is just the best pick. There is really not a big difference between mileage, of course 328i can drink more, but then you are driving it like you couldn´t the others. Same speed, same driving, they drink similar amounts within 10%.

And if you dont mind a little bigger car there is always fives and sevens. M30 engines Alpinas are more trustworthy than any E30 M20 six nevermind fours, and in my opinion M20 is more trustworthy than the so called plastik-6s in E36, nevermind the fours.

I have E28 M30 engined five series, locking diff is so much fun, and the drifts are easier to control with a little bigger torquey car. E34 535i are cheap and so are those old 735i. Alpina guise it is 256hp, willing to play. 1.2tons is the weight of my car, so it is not even heavier than 3series, just more space.

But if you are willing to have that car for keeps, you never go wrong going the full //M way ;) z3 M roadster is the only car i couldn´t say much ++, but others are just :mrgreen:

[ae86_16v]

e30 - is more drivers car than e36. Cuz e30 6cyl version got heavy front than rear. It's more fun to play with.

Nope, the E36 has perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Yes the entire car is heavier, but it is not front heavy.

[thepest]

I am seconding Igorionia´s opinions, E30 is more playful than E36. More simple and less things to go wrong, easy to maintain. Not to say E30 is not civilized, compared to E21, it is easy car to drive.

Like it has been mentioned before, if you go for the E36, just take the 328i, 4cylinder engines in bmw range are just expensive water kettles. 320i is slowish, 325i needs more torq and 328i is just the best pick. There is really not a big difference between mileage, of course 328i can drink more, but then you are driving it like you couldn´t the others. Same speed, same driving, they drink similar amounts within 10%.

And if you dont mind a little bigger car there is always fives and sevens. M30 engines Alpinas are more trustworthy than any E30 M20 six nevermind fours, and in my opinion M20 is more trustworthy than the so called plastik-6s in E36, nevermind the fours.

I have E28 M30 engined five series, locking diff is so much fun, and the drifts are easier to control with a little bigger torquey car. E34 535i are cheap and so are those old 735i. Alpina guise it is 256hp, willing to play. 1.2tons is the weight of my car, so it is not even heavier than 3series, just more space.

But if you are willing to have that car for keeps, you never go wrong going the full //M way ;) z3 M roadster is the only car i couldn´t say much ++, but others are just :mrgreen:

I know what you mean speaking about 328i or 5/7 series, but if I had the money for such a car I wouldn't be looking for a 100k+ miles 318is or even worse with a 325i.
And one more thing I'm not so sure that the 325i lacks torque. I mean compared with some other cars, yes, of course, but the most I've had under my right foot was a 90hp vehicle, so I doubt that a 140/192 hp BMW will be slow in my eyes!

[stradale]

I doubt that too. An E36 325i is a blast by any means.

Don't be put off by cars with 100k + kms. My car had 165k kms when I bought it in february last year and so far no big problems with it. I'm now past 190k. The car's still in good shape. Like Ae86 already mentioned, maintenance is key. Make sure the history is there, preferably with receipts. It's a good sign of how the previous owner(s) treated the car. You can also verify the kms.

Check the car properly. Look for resprayed parts, inside and outside. Look for rust (especially wheelarches, sills, underside of the doors). When you go for a testdrive, listen for noises from the suspension/drivetrain. When you hear a 'thump' from the rear when shifting from 1st to 2nd, it's either the rubber components of the rear suspension or backlash of the driveshaft.

My advice is also to find a car that is equipped as it was when it left the factory or has later added original BMW parts which are from the same period as the car. Ricers usually skimp on the vital maintenance (regular service, the right oil, etc.) in order to buy crap that just makes the car look worse. In other words, don't just look at the car, try to find out about the kind of person the previous owner(s) were as well.

[TopGearNL]

/\/\ Yep, service history and receipts are almost the most important thing! :shock:

[ae86_16v]

I doubt that too. An E36 325i is a blast by any means.

Don't be put off by cars with 100k + kms. My car had 165k kms when I bought it in february last year and so far no big problems with it. I'm now past 190k. The car's still in good shape. Like Ae86 already mentioned, maintenance is key. Make sure the history is there, preferably with receipts. It's a good sign of how the previous owner(s) treated the car. You can also verify the kms.

/\/\ Yep, service history and receipts are almost the most important thing! :shock:

Agreed, I paid an extra $1000 - $1500 over market for the history of my car. The guy had it all neatly stacked up in a binder, even included the window sticker.

Like Stradale said, it just shows how much the owner treats their car. Oh yeah, never buy it from kids. :)

[TopGearNL]

Agreed, I paid an extra $1000 - $1500 over market for the history of my car. The guy had it all neatly stacked up in a binder, even included the window sticker.

Like Stradale said, it just shows how much the owner treats their car. Oh yeah, never buy it from kids

Well 1000 extra isn't bad considering how much maintenance you could have with a bad one. Thats very good, all the records!

I agree, never buy it from kids, is saying a kid :wink: :P

[ae86_16v]

I agree, never buy it from kids, is saying a kid :wink: :P

Haha, one time I drove 40 miles to look at a car, found out a kid owned it and did a "few mods" (e.g. beat the shit out of it), I turned right around and left.

Oh yeah, it also had a small oil leak that would only cost $50 to fix. According to his mechanic. Haha :)

[TopGearNL]

Oh yeah, it also had a small oil leak that would only cost $50 to fix. According to his mechanic. Haha

LOL! His mechanic! :lol:

More like $5000 :P

[thepest]

I don't know if something's wrong with my google abilities :) but I just can't find the gear ratios for the e36 325i! Could you guys please help me out here?!
All I could find is the final drive 3.15

[stradale]

I don't know if something's wrong with my google abilities :) but I just can't find the gear ratios for the e36 325i! Could you guys please help me out here?!
All I could find is the final drive 3.15

According to the US service manual the gear ratios are:
1st: 4.23
2nd: 2.52
3rd: 1.66
4th: 1.22
5th: 1.00
reverse: 4.04

I assume the European 325i uses the same gearbox (Getrag S5D 250G).

[thepest]

Thanks stradale! If not the same as in EU I bet it's pretty darn close.

btw I was wondering why didn't they had the 5th gear under 1 :? It's the sasme with 318is

[thepest]

^ Sounds great dani! What year is the bavarian?
How did you feel it performance wise?

[TopGearNL]

^ Sounds great dani! What year is the bavarian?
How did you feel it performance wise?

It's a 1986 325i :D

And it felt very old :wink: but that's what I love about these cars: the throttle instantaneous response, the gearbox, the feeling you get through the steering wheel... cars are not as thrilling anymore :bah:

Its more a drivers car then! :D

[TopGearNL]

^ yes - right...

Like my GT Turbo. Driving these cars fast on bumpy roads require more concentration and interaction with the car than with current modern cars. No way you can compare a 2005 160hp Ibiza Cupra to an 20 year-old 120hp GT Turbo - the french is much much funnier! :D :wink:

The bimmer has Koni suspensions, although they really show its age. Plus the car is running on 14in wheels... with really "tall" tyres, making the car feel somehow like a boat :? With 15in wheels, better (harder) tyres, and upgraded suspensions - not to mention the mandatory LSD - this car should be entertaining! :D

Anyone interested in a ride at the Ring when we meet in May? :P :wink: :mrgreen:

Sounds nice! I like a car which requires concentration!

The Ring, Hell yeah! Passenger or Driver? :P

[ARMAN]

The bimmer has Koni suspensions, although they really show its age. Plus the car is running on 14in wheels... with really "tall" tyres, making the car feel somehow like a boat :? With 15in wheels, better (harder) tyres, and upgraded suspensions - not to mention the mandatory LSD - this car should be entertaining! :D

Floating fealing of the front in higher speeds apparently means dead or almost dead shocks as I was told, there are some tests they do at the service stations for shocks.

[Igorionia]

Talking about sounds - today my brother has picked up his 325i and I'm just back from a quick spin... and God that car sounds great!! :love: I drove a couple of km - and every time I stopped at a traffic light, I couldn't resist, revving the car up to 5000rpm! :D we even passed through a tunnel several times just to enjoy the sound at full glory. Can't wait for a proper sport air admission and a free exhaust :twisted:

Try to Find HARTGE manifold - really helps. Costs about 200Euro in LT (but: Hard to find)

DAMN! one more e30 on JW. WTF is wrong with you people ? :wall: :roflmao: :bday:

[thepest]

Ok here is another option. What about a 323i ? It's still 2.5l engine but with 22 hp less than the 325i - 170.
Any comments on that one? Anyone drove one?

p.s. After just a quick search I noticed than it's kind of harder to find and more expensive than other models, 325i included! How come?

[TopGearNL]

I know a member here has one, im sure of it...

[stradale]

Ok here is another option. What about a 323i ? It's still 2.5l engine but with 22 hp less than the 325i - 170.
Any comments on that one? Anyone drove one?

p.s. After just a quick search I noticed than it's kind of harder to find and more expensive than other models, 325i included! How come?

A friend of mine recently bought one. The big difference is it has lots more torque than my 320i, so the driveability is better. It's not as fast as 325i or 328i though. Compared to the 325i, the 323i needs less revs to get going, but when you floor both cars, the 325i pulls stronger. The 323i is a more relaxed everyday driver.

It's more expensive because the 325i is older. Remember, the 325i was replaced by the 323i and the 328i from 1995 on. The cars from 1995 on had better build quality and the M52 engine. There are some subtle differences in the bumpers and lights as well, making the revised E36 look a little more modern that the pre 1995 cars. Perhaps that influences value too.

[thepest]

^ Well it obviously do, I can't find one cheaper than 2500k Euro. But you're right about the better quality and newer technologies that makes the 323 more expensive. I'll probably stick to the 325i for the moment. All I need know is the money :)

[stradale]

Good luck!

[thepest]

Thanks stradale!

[ae86_16v]

I suppose you are looking for a Coupe right? Because I think Stradale got it right, after the 328is came out, the 325is got drop to a 323is to better differentiate the cars.

Which means that the 323is is 95 or newer and 325is was 94 and older.

Remember that the 97+ cars also had a facelift with rounder kidneys, different sidemarkers, and a few suspension improvements. 1996 cars had already upgraded to digital climate controls.

But they also upgrade bits of the car in 95 as well, but I am not too familiar with the upgrades. One of them are definitely painted rocker panels and side-skirts.

By the way, this is only accurate as far as I know to US/NA cars. Not sure about Europe.

[thepest]

^ Thanks for the info.

Yes I know about the upgrades drom '95 onwards, but this, of course, makes a car more expensive. I am looking for a sedan, as well, not only for a coupe. Even if I find a very nice touring I'd take it, too.
Yesterday I found a very well kept (as far as I can tell from pictures and info) 325i sedan with 175+k Km on the clock (aroind 110k miles) but it's like 400 km from me and I'm not going now cause I don't yet have the money. It looked really nice, tough! I could see myself in it ;)!

[stradale]

Yesterday I found a very well kept (as far as I can tell from pictures and info) 325i sedan with 175+k Km on the clock (aroind 110k miles) but it's like 400 km from me and I'm not going now cause I don't yet have the money. It looked really nice, tough! I could see myself in it ;)!

When I was looking for a 325i I certainly learned a lesson: a car might look like it's a well taken after, solid machine in pictures, but you have to see it in the metal. I've had my share of disappointments...

ONLY buy a car when you've seen it in person! Be very critical! Looking at the price, it may not sound like a lot of money going down the drain when you buy a complete lemon, but before you have established it is a lemon and the problems are fixed sufficiently to sell it to the next unlucky owner, you've spent a mutitude of the buying price.

[TopGearNL]

Never judge a car on how it looks, it may well be a ''pub''. If you can always take somebody who knows things about an engine and who can judge that.

Luckily im going to learn everything about engines soon! :wink:

[thepest]

I won't buy a car for it's looks. I just want such a car so bad now that I start imagining myself in it right after I see it.

My uncle is a car enthuasist and an engenier and studyed engines with internal combustion. I spent last summer with him so he showed me so tricks when testing second-hand cars. Plus I learned so much about how everything in cars works.
Anyway, thanks for the warning and I'll keep posting if I finally get my hands on some beauty! ;) (BMW I mean)

[ae86_16v]

Yeah you would be surprise how expansive "Perfect" means to some people ;) .