Lincoln Town Car chassis

[gangajas]

I've have read that the Lincoln Town Car has an almost 30 years old chassis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform).

How can this car compete with its rivals from Cadillac and the best European and Japanese brands?

[ferrari550]

it is quite simple, it doesn't

[TopGearNL]

it is quite simple, it doesn't

LMAO!

Can't think of a better answer!

[RC45]

it is quite simple, it doesn't

LMAO!

Can't think of a better answer!

Except that this chassi has outsold every other luxury full size sedan on the planet combined.

Having owned 4 cars based off the full size platform, 1 pre-dating the current gen (1973 Ford LTD) and having covered many 10's of thousands of miles in them, they are by far the most comfortable long distance cruisers ever built - bar none.

This how and why ;)

[ae86_16v]

I've have read that the Lincoln Town Car has an almost 30 years old chassis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform).

How can this car compete with its rivals from Cadillac and the best European and Japanese brands?

My dad used to have one back in the mid 90s. As RC stated, it is definitely one of the most comfortable cars I have drove/rode in. Amazingly comfortable as I recalled.

But yes, it did drive like a boat. :)

Plus, I think they look good today, having consistently updating them, I think they look very "executive". If I remember, they have a HUGE backing from the rental and leasing fleets too.

[graywolf624]

Just beacause you call it luxury doesnt make it so....

No its luxury.. Its just luxury for those that prefer to be driven.

[TopGearNL]

it is quite simple, it doesn't

LMAO!

Can't think of a better answer!

Except that this chassi has outsold every other luxury full size sedan on the planet combined.

Having owned 4 cars based off the full size platform, 1 pre-dating the current gen (1973 Ford LTD) and having covered many 10's of thousands of miles in them, they are by far the most comfortable long distance cruisers ever built - bar none.

This how and why ;)


Just beacause you call it luxury doesnt make it so.... :wink:

I think RC mend that it had won on the Comfortable bit, not the luxurious part... :wink:

[RC45]

Just beacause you call it luxury doesnt make it so....

No its luxury.. Its just luxury for those that prefer to be driven.


You guys mix up comfy and luxury.....dont come and tell me that wood imitation and cheap plastic are luxury....
I do not deny its comfy to ride in, if youre not prone to become seasick that is...... :wink:

See - this is proof you are talking crap.

The Lincoln TownCar is actually more luxurious than any BMW or Benz .. way more wood and leather - BMW and Benz is about "Coffee Shop" style, TownCar is about comfort and luxury.

[RC45]

Just beacause you call it luxury doesnt make it so....

No its luxury.. Its just luxury for those that prefer to be driven.

This is 100% correct... it is one of the most comfortable and luxurious car to be driven around in this side of the top limo edition of the big Benz.

Uhm - there is a reason it is the #1 choice in the world for Limousines.

They make so many of these Town Cars it would make your eyes water - 125,000 cars a year... I think Mercedes sells a total of about 200,000 cars a year..

[666fast]

I agree on the comfort bit. There is acres of space inside of them, plus the super comfy seats.

[RC45]

Yes - the rear seat legroom is Maybach sized.. ;) for what 1/500th of the price? :P

[TopGearNL]

Yes - the rear seat legroom is Maybach sized.. ;) for what 1/500th of the price? :P

Thats very true!

But theres another competitor for it in Europe, Citroen C6 :)

[RC45]

Yes - the rear seat legroom is Maybach sized.. ;) for what 1/500th of the price? :P

Thats very true!

But theres another competitor for it in Europe, Citroen C6 :)

Is it a 4.6l V8, that can float at 100mph through the countryside eating up the miles like a great ocean liner? ;)

[TopGearNL]

Yes - the rear seat legroom is Maybach sized.. ;) for what 1/500th of the price? :P

Thats very true!

But theres another competitor for it in Europe, Citroen C6 :)

Is it a 4.6l V8, that can float at 100mph through the countryside eating up the miles like a great ocean liner? ;)

Nope you can choose either a V6 3.0i Petrolen or a 2.7 HDiF V6 Diesel and it will also eat up the miles like a great ocean liner, only more comfortable thanks to hydropneumatic suspension :)

http://www.citroen.com/CWW/en-US/RANGE/PrivateCars/C6/default/

[RC45]

I thought we were talking large sedans..


DIMENSIONS, CAPACITY AND WEIGHT
Town Car Signature L
Length (mm) 5,624
Width (mm) 1,986
Height (mm) 1,491
Wheelbase (mm) 3,142
Curbweight (kg) 2,049
Trunk Size (L) 595


Not mid size family cars... ;) :P


Body style Saloon

Engines Petrol, Diesel HDi

Gearbox automatic six-speed

Height 1 464 mm

Length 4 908 mm

Width 1860 mm

Wheelbase 2 900 mm

[graywolf624]

You still don';t get it and your post flashes it from the mountain tops:

the buttons in the lincoln are just horrible the same goes for the handles for the indicators and whipers

(I know a guy who own one and the front seat have holes because of him getting in and out...) I could understand that if it had alot of side support, but the seats are more like an sofa so they shouldnt....
The dash board and front seats don't matter. The lincoln town car is 100 percent about the person sitting in the sofa like back seat. Thats the point. Its luxury from a stand point of not even knowing your in a car. What controls the driver has and how his seat wears is about as important as whether its raining half way across the world to that guy in the car.

It isn't supposed to be luxury to you or me.. Luxury to us is whats behind the wheel. Its supposed to be luxury for being driven.

[RC45]

Just beacause you call it luxury doesnt make it so....

No its luxury.. Its just luxury for those that prefer to be driven.


You guys mix up comfy and luxury.....dont come and tell me that wood imitation and cheap plastic are luxury....
I do not deny its comfy to ride in, if youre not prone to become seasick that is...... :wink:

See - this is proof you are talking crap.

The Lincoln TownCar is actually more luxurious than any BMW or Benz .. way more wood and leather - BMW and Benz is about "Coffee Shop" style, TownCar is about comfort and luxury.


Again you dont get it, I dont know if its because you didnt see any luxury in SA, or the American idea about luxury have gotten to you.....
What an assumption you have made.

My father has had all manner of Audis, relatives in very senior chairmanship execuitve positions have owned top line Mercedes and BMW's since I can remember - and yet others owned Jaguars and even a Rolls Royce.

I have been in and around far more luxury cars than you could care to believe - and been in all of them over my life time.

In recent times I have been in and around Roll's, Bentleys, Audi A8's, Top line Benz's and even a Maybach.

I have a perfect idea what luxury and comfort feel and look like.

The truth is that luxury and comfort don't have to cost $500,000 or be hand made in a little studio.

They are simply variations of the same theme.. some costing way more than others - but ALL achieving the same goal.


Yes they put leather in the car, but the feel of the leather are way different than if you feel the leather in a BMW or Merc,

Really? What an absurd subjective call. To many people the clinical leather of a BMW is not luxurious, just leathery and "stylish" - much like the Lexus idea of a "luxury" interior.

Again - same idea just executed differently and priced very differently.

We are not talking bespoke appointments here - as these are a wash.. take the bespoke Presidential limos.


the buttons in the lincoln are just horrible the same goes for the handles for the indicators and whipers....and the wood....well it doesnt feel like wood it doesnt even look that much as wood...

Again - pure subjectivity.


The choice of materials to use are bad, not as bad as most other American cars but far from something you think "hmmmm I really feel they have tought about this when they choose this plastic for the consol around the stereo, or around the speedo and such.....

More subjective bullshit.


another thing is when the interior are worn down on this car wich it will be pretty fast it looks like crap, cuz the leather are doesnt fit the cusion very good it will fold over itself and it will look fugly. (I know a guy who own one and the front seat have holes because of him getting in and out...) I could understand that if it had alot of side support, but the seats are more like an sofa so they shouldnt....

This guys must trash his cars then.. and exactly what model and what year are you talking about?

My 1996 Lincoln Town Car had 75,000 miles when traded.. interior was like the first day I picked it up... perfect.


Comfy hell yeah!!!! luxury sorry no, at least not from what we call luxury in Europe.....

Define this so called "european luxury"?


I guess there are different standards of what we consider luxury....
Having grown up around BMW's Mercs, Jags and more I can tell you the clinical "leather and wood" of a Benz is no more luxurious than a top line Caddy or Lincoln..

Same concept - different execution.

It isn't supposed to be luxury to you or me.. Luxury to us is whats behind the wheel. Its supposed to be luxury for being driven.
Doesn't one of the richest men in the world, Warren Buffet get chauffered around in a Towncar?

[graywolf624]

I dont see many lincoln towncars when leaders are gathered if its not in America..wich tells us the idea of luxury are different...
Actually Ive seen them used as limos in quite a few countries outside the US. Maybe not presidential limos, but thats just as much a matter of cost as anything else. A merc limo is a hell of alot more expensive.

Because it sounds like this car have been into the magical place where the vette are born, since its so different from everything else of interiors made in America...
You aren't even talking the same parent companies here. It is like us refering to those european cars... Doesn't work like that.

BMW,Merc,Audi, Rolls, Bentley..neither of these cars feel like an lincoln when one place his ass in it, and luxury are way more to an European than how your ass feels when it hit the leather....luxury to me at least is the whole package including how things feel and look, and not only in the backseat...
And that my friend is the difference in the type of luxury, but it isn't simply American based. As Ive pointed out lincoln limos are used the world over. Some people want to drive, others to be driven. Your stuck in the world where you drive. Were you in the world where you are driven you wouldnt give a hoot what the driver had for accutriments, it would be solely about the back seat. That and pensioners is the primary target for Lincoln. You aren't their demographic, neither are most Americans except on special occassions. That is when you don't want to even realize your in a car. You cannot for a minute argue it isn't like that in the back seat of the lincoln, or the rolls royce, or the bentley for that matter. Any one of those cars you could argue is bested in luxury for the driver, but for those 3 and a few other makes the driver is less important.

So far the only viable arguement you've given against the lincoln being a good limo is the badge itself. Thats weak.

[TopGearNL]

I thought we were talking large sedans..


DIMENSIONS, CAPACITY AND WEIGHT
Town Car Signature L
Length (mm) 5,624
Width (mm) 1,986
Height (mm) 1,491
Wheelbase (mm) 3,142
Curbweight (kg) 2,049
Trunk Size (L) 595


Not mid size family cars... ;) :P


Body style Saloon

Engines Petrol, Diesel HDi

Gearbox automatic six-speed

Height 1 464 mm

Length 4 908 mm

Width 1860 mm

Wheelbase 2 900 mm


Americans always have to have everything in bigger sizes :P

[graywolf624]

^Nah.. its just more comparable to a top level merc rolls or bently in size.

[TopGearNL]

^Nah.. its just more comparable to a top level merc rolls or bently in size.

Ok you got me, I was just thinking in terms of price :wink:

[nthfinity]

brembo, you honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

you clearly have always stated bias against virtually everything that is american born... the only thing a skoda may compare postively against would be a lada, or yugo.

Lincoln's in fact have nothing to compare atgainst a skoda, let alone a skoda vs. a lincoln.

you just dig yourself deeper if you wish... but to say taht we dont have the same super-luxo limo's here is ignorant.

the fact is, many of my friends with the most expensive, and most luxurious cars in the wolrd around call Metro Cars (read lincoln towncar) to comp and pick them up, as well as drop them off to the airport. they are posh comfort, bar none.

[RC45]

I am fully aware of the "families" the cars belong in, I made that comment cuz you make this car out to be more than it is IMO, just as RC does with the vette....

....and you continually make out that anything from the US is less than what it is.

[TopGearNL]

^Nah.. its just more comparable to a top level merc rolls or bently in size.

Ok you got me, I was just thinking in terms of price :wink:

And size are almost the only thing they have in common....

Well RC clearly showed us that the Lincoln is bigger :roll:

[RC45]

but big and comfy doesnt equal luxury in my book.....

Then what is luxury in your book?

[RC45]

but big and comfy doesnt equal luxury in my book.....

Then what is luxury in your book?

A pair of almost worn out sneakers can be very comfy, same as some baggy coton pants to just slob around in at home are comfy...but it aint luxury....

The smell of high quallity leather, the feel of the leather as Im sure you have feelt how leather in a RR feels you know what Im talking about...
Luxury are when what you see and what you feel are the same soemthing which is great to look at and at the same time feels great, got good quallity and so on...

Luxury can also being sitting by a bonfire with friends talking thru the night thats luxury to me also as I rarly have the time to do so, while for you that might be hell.....

So the smell of leather in a comfortable seat is luxury?

http://www.lincoln.com/towncar/img/main_int_2.jpg
So this a "junk" and "trash" interior?

http://www.lincoln.com/towncar/img/main_int_1.jpg
And this is a "unluxurious" ride?

http://www.lincoln.com/towncar/img/main_ext_8.jpg
And this is overall an aweful piece of crap that by no means reflects it huge sales success and repeat customer over a period of decades?

http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/lo-band/images/phantom/acoustics.jpg
This interior is by definition better and luxurious.. because it simply is?

http://www.rrab.com/rolls/nphant_b.jpg
And this is by definition better?

[RC45]

Its more to luxury than the smell of leather and a comfy back seat IMO,

Again - what is this mysterious definiton of "luxury" you aspire to then?

Is it simply name and price?

[graywolf624]

The smell of high quallity leather, the feel of the leather as Im sure you have feelt how leather in a RR feels you know what Im talking about...
Luxury are when what you see and what you feel are the same soemthing which is great to look at and at the same time feels great, got good quallity and so on...
The lincoln has both the high quality feel and smell of leather in the back seats. No offense brembo but your comming off as a snob who only cares about brand image. Luxury isnt about how you look, its how you feel. Your also doing what you say we 'Americans' do. That is stereotyping an area as diverse and the size of all of europe as all similar. Funny you get ticked off when people even come close to doing that to you.. But clearly you havent understood that given the vastness and disparity in laws and locations in the US it is the equivelent here. At the end of the day my life style has as much similarities with yours as say RC's.... Completely different.

[666fast]

I find that most Luxury German car interiors certainly look better than the interior of a Lincoln Town Car. While the German cars are comfy, they aren't as comfy as the towncar IMO.
That said, if money wasn't an issue, I'd happily buy an A6/8 before a Towncar. Not because I think the Towncar is bad, but because I think the Audi is better inside and out.

And stop with the Skoda bashing, they're cool damnit. :P

[RC45]

That said, if money wasn't an issue, I'd happily buy an A6/8 before a Towncar. Not because I think the Towncar is bad, but because I think the Audi is better inside and out.

But I dont think drivers will cross shop the 2 cars ;)

Passengers wouldnt give a crap though :)

[Mattk]

We don't have Town Cars here. We have locally produced long wheelbase models.

I'm not sure the Town Car can be compared to any other car. Most other cars think about the driver when they are built. The Town Car does not, according to pretty much all the reviews I've read about it. This is probably why the chassis hasn't been updated. People buy the car, it works, so why fix it if it ain't broke?

I've read the average age of Town Car buyers is 70, which probably explains why so little thought is give to driving dynamics. Old folks don't care anymore. They just want a movable living room.


the fact is, many of my friends with the most expensive, and most luxurious cars in the wolrd around call Metro Cars (read lincoln towncar) to comp and pick them up, as well as drop them off to the airport.

And they'll go home and drive their expensive cars, so what's the point?

[RC45]

And by looking at the interior pic of the Phantom and comapring it to the Lincoln one see clearly its a better looking interior the wood are actually wood whereas in the lincoln its cheap wood imitations, things like this are what seperates a real luxury car from a wannabe luxury car IMO.....

"looks better"

WTF?

YOu are so full of shit you have just confirmed for the world to see.

You looked at 2 photos, and based off JUST the photos tried to tell everyne you could determine the wood is fake and that the one clearly "looks" better.

What a load of bullshit... if you look carefully, the RR driving position and controls and layout is about as ordinary as a 1930 Austin runabout.. nothing special there.

No one EVER claimed the Lincoln Towncar was better than a Rolls Royce, and the extra ameneties and the name and the "snob" image of the Rolls will of course give certain people in the world a boner - especially those who are only concerned about their image...

however, to try say that if all you had to measure the cars was the photos shown, the only reason you could possibly have for saying the one is "better" than the other, is because you like the one name better than the other. The pjotos do not in any way shape or form display one as more luxurious than the other... in fact, if you were not a car person and did not know anything, the cars might even be from the same model line or family... as they both have leather clad fullsized interiors.

I am sorry man, but to try say the photos shown prove which car is "better" is utter crap.

Period.

[nthfinity]

clear anti american car sentiment here based on clear bias rather then any stout fact. :?

[graywolf624]

If me not saying I feel the Lincoln are a Luxury car wich are on par with the RR makes me a snoob I wonder what that makes you?
I don't think anyone compared the rr to the lincoln directly. Given enough money you get more toys in the back. Thats what that market is looking for. And I still stress the snob point is that you somehow think that europeans wouldnt find it luxurious. Plenty do. They are the uber rich class that want to be driven around and those who want to go to special events. Its an odd breed but its certainly not solely an american breed or even an American mass feeling. Id hate to have a car where the focus is on being driven.


And by looking at the interior pic of the Phantom and comapring it to the Lincoln one see clearly its a better looking interior the wood are actually wood whereas in the lincoln its cheap wood imitations, things like this are what seperates a real luxury car from a wannabe luxury car IMO..
uhmmm... You can get the lincoln with real walnut wood too. Your arguements aren't working.

[TopGearNL]

Hello how much is the RR, and how much is the Towncar?

Just stupid to compare those! :roll:

[TopGearNL]

why are you so obssesed with getting me into the American way of thinking of luxury....

Why are you so obsessed with getting all of us into the Non-American way of thinking of luxury...? :wink:

[sameerrao]

I find it funny that the original poster, gangajas, in a matter of speaking, entered the room, pulled the pin, lobbed the grenade and ran off while unleashing a fierce war. :lol:

Sorry for the interruption - think of it like an TV advertisement break, on with the USA vs rest battle. :D

[TopGearNL]

I find it funny that the original poster, gangajas, in a matter of speaking, entered the room, pulled the pin, lobbed the grenade and ran off while unleashing a fierce war. :lol:

Sorry for the interruption - think of it like an TV advertisement break, on with the USA vs rest battle. :D

LOL!

Perfect summorizing of it all :lol:

[graywolf624]

My opinion is that the interior of the RR are better looking with he center console/arm rest the lines of the dash the steering wheel and so on this have nothing to do with being biased...
Yet again, if you arent the one driving who cares what the dash board and steering wheel look like.. Your in the freakin back seat being driven around.

knew the about the wood before the pics as I have said eralier in the thread
And I told you it was an inaccurate statement. You can get real wood as an option in the lincolns.

[TopGearNL]

You cant get fake wood as an option in a RR.....enough said....

You shouldn't be either for the price you pay :roll:

[graywolf624]

You cant get fake wood as an option in a RR.....enough said....
It may come as a suprise to you, but some people prefer fake wood. Easier to clean for one. I personally think the more options the better, I certainly wouldnt knock the car for having mroe possibilities even if some of them dont appeal to me.

I wonder who the real snobs are, the ones who actually want their luxury car to be luxury thruout even if most people dont know it, or the people who are happy just it looks close to luxury......
If your not driving you usually could care less what your driver is experiencing imho.

You really want a luxury car that you drive. That is a whole other class of vehicle... I hate to tell you but the rolls doesn't fit that need either. The reality is, most uber rich with drivers could care less about what their driver experiences. They want comfort, luxuries like tvs in the back, the ability to not even know they are moving, and in some cases image. All but the last one are covered by the lincoln, that is why it is used so much.

[RC45]

Have you ever even sat in the drivers seat of the new Phantom...?

I have and it is not exactly Ferrari or even BMW what with the upright seat and large steering wheel.

It is the driving position of a chauffeured limo. The seats are not any more comfy than the Towncar.

Now the Bently Conti, thats a "drivers" seating position, not a chauffeurs.

ANd I had the chance to compare both side by side. And believe it or not, there is no extra tangeble "luxury" you keep speaking of.

It is simply badge and presence. This counts for a lot, but trying to claim either of those 2 is more "luxuroius" than the Towncar is bizarre.

All three have leather seats, wood trim, outrageously comfortable seats and a silint ambience while underway.

So - if you want to say the Rolls is a Rolls and the Lincoln never will be.. thats fine.. but its an intangeble.

But if you try to say that a non-bespoke Rolls is "more luxurious" than even a Bentley or a Towncar or large Benz you are wrong - they all display the tangible accoutrements of luxury - perhaps one has more outrageous and expensive options built in (but you can even get bespoke Lincolns and Benzs to counter that).

That's the point.

And now I will bring the Z06 into this debate since you keep bringing it up... in the tangible performance category - the C5 Z06 laps Nurburgring and other tracks in the same time and sometimes better than the 360CS - so that means the 360CS is not "a better sports car".

The Ferrari may appeal to some more thna the others, and have that intangeble "it's Ferrari" quattributeality.. but it is not "a beeter sportscar" because of this.

It is just more expensive.

Now back to the thread starter:

I've have read that the Lincoln Town Car has an almost 30 years old chassis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform).

How can this car compete with its rivals from Cadillac and the best European and Japanese brands?

How can this car compete with the others with an "older chassis" - easy, the age of the chassis does not detract from accomplashing the task at hand - Luxury Travel.

Luxury is luxury at that point - the seats are large, wide and comfortable, rear leg room is outrageous, the car floats silently down the road.

The Towncar and Rolls both deliver that quality - one just appeals to the snob in you more than the other.

Period.

[graywolf624]

The rolls royce was used in the early days in Australia to explore the outback as it was one of the most robust cars and one of the very few who could handle the abuse....I dont see old towncars was used that way....
They werent even around then.. That being said if your arguing rolls is robust based on the 1920 someone might want to bring up the dark ages of lucas.

[RC45]

IOne question to you about the town car RC, how is the quallity of the towncar, is it a tuff car, can it handle hard use...
The rolls royce was used in the early days in Australia to explore the outback as it was one of the most robust cars and one of the very few who could handle the abuse....I dont see old towncars was used that way....

this crap doesn't even deserve debate

[TopGearNL]

IOne question to you about the town car RC, how is the quallity of the towncar, is it a tuff car, can it handle hard use...
The rolls royce was used in the early days in Australia to explore the outback as it was one of the most robust cars and one of the very few who could handle the abuse....I dont see old towncars was used that way....

this crap doesn't even deserve debate

Nope true, like graywolf said thats just a stupid argument!

Oh, and Im not American :wink:

[nthfinity]

clear anti american car sentiment here based on clear bias rather then any stout fact. :?

Yes and somehow American car makers does something magical and make an uber luxury car for the cost of 4 RR rims, its like with the vette where they make the best supercar ever for the price of an Enzo door handle and it outhandles everything....

I am impressed, but for me it doesnt hold true, I have seen and been inside a Lincoln towncar and for me thats not full out luxury...

each to its own I have no problem with you guys feeling its on par with the Rolls, why are you so obssesed with getting me into the American way of thinking of luxury....

Nobody ever called the Towncar the ultimate uber luxury sedan; but rather the ultimate cruiser for comfort while also being luxurious; and putting quality materials where they matter... to aid comfort... you aren't about to tell me that the Bently Flying Spurr's control panels are luxurious, are you? coming from a lowly VW; with cheap plastics that feel tacky while also surrounded by soft leathers and woods... besides the more aggressive chassis, 550 hp engine, awd, exterior styling, price, and top speed... what is really different about them?

the vette does handle better then the uber Ferrari 430, 575, 612, 599 we have today, and comes close to the GT3... this is bar none fact.

why the hell are you bringing that up? The anti american sentiment you hold is beyond comprehension.

Espen, in this argument, you have lost, continue to lose, and have nowhere to go.

this thread has run it's due course; ultimately, you wont change your mind no matter how wrong you are.