Cool veyron video

[thepest]

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2826980160676948882&q=Bugatti+veyron


p.s. just look at those breaks :shock:

[thepest]

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2130117624482286852&q=Bugatti+veyron

One more

[Stoopie]

damn :|

[RC45]

This video proves once and for all the Veyron is simply a rolling Computer System.

The Traction Control, Active Handling, Anti-lock Brakes, Torque Managment and who knows what other systems behind the scenes allow the driver to go like a he was on a PlayStation console in the wet.

It would no doubt be thrilling and adrinalin inducing and eye popping to drive the car, but the bottom line is, without the computer aids, the car would be a non-entity. ;)

[gis]

lol the passenger in the first video was funny,makin all those groans when he accelerated.

couple of cool vids those,i still wanna see a speedo shot of this car accelerating

[Stoopie]

lol the passenger in the first video was funny,makin all those groans when he accelerated.

couple of cool vids those,i still wanna see a speedo shot of this car accelerating

Offtopic: they used to do stuff with cotton in Lancashire :o

[gis]

^^^ lol explain please.with the vids of veyrons,an asian chick gettin excited at an animals huge nuts and clarkson doin sum crazy moves im quite confused what your on about with cotton and were i live,lol

[yg60m]

This is really an impressive monster and any 1000 bhp car without driving aids would be a non-entity :wink: as proved by the many crashes of Enzos and LP 640s wich are far from 1000 bhp.

[sentra_dude]

Fat, ugly, PIG! :P

So what's with the brakes, is that normal operating temp or were they running hot?

[RC45]

This is really an impressive monster and any 1000 bhp car without driving aids would be a non-entity :wink: as proved by the many crashes of Enzos and LP 640s wich are far from 1000 bhp.

Well, my buddy here in Houston has a Twin Turbo C5 Z06 with 980rwhp (1150bhp).. and trust me, it's far from a non-entity ;)

Fat, ugly, PIG! :P

So what's with the brakes, is that normal operating temp or were they running hot?

That's what happenes when you try stop a dump truck from 120mph ;)

[TopGearNL]

Still an impressive car, I despite it but respect it at the same time :wink:

[harryo2b]

Well without computers a lot of things couldn't operate at maximum ability, or could they....!?!?!

Shit most of the recent military fighters couldn't take off without crashing if it weren't for a computer to tell another computer which controls the computer that tells it to go up.

Seems the C6's uses computers for such stability management as well:

"Active Handling is an electronic symphony of Traction Control and antilock brakes working through microcomputers, accelerometers and stability sensors. While no system can overcome the laws of physics, Active Handling compares driver steering input with actual vehicle response. When necessary, it uses individual wheel brake application, the Traction Control System and available Magnetic Selective Ride Control to maximize the driver’s ability to maintain stability and stay on track."

PSM(Porsche's computer) has saved my ass at the 'Ring a time or three thinking I was something I am far from.

Just waiting for Judgement Day, when everything CPU will take over and wipe us out :mrgreen:

[yg60m]

This is really an impressive monster and any 1000 bhp car without driving aids would be a non-entity :wink: as proved by the many crashes of Enzos and LP 640s wich are far from 1000 bhp.

Well, my buddy here in Houston has a Twin Turbo C5 Z06 with 980rwhp (1150bhp).. and trust me, it's far from a non-entity ;)


Is it reliable ? I always wondered how these tuned cars evolve :?: How much miles did he put on it since tuned ?

[RC45]

What the engine? Sure.. the only bits on the super charged and turbo charged V8's that may be a "reliability" problem are the blower belts themselves and the actual turbo turbines... the rest is bullet proof ;)

[RC45]

Seems the C6's uses computers for such stability management as well:

"Active Handling is an electronic symphony of Traction Control and antilock brakes working through microcomputers, accelerometers and stability sensors. While no system can overcome the laws of physics, Active Handling compares driver steering input with actual vehicle response. When necessary, it uses individual wheel brake application, the Traction Control System and available Magnetic Selective Ride Control to maximize the driver’s ability to maintain stability and stay on track."

Nothing new.. the system has been around since 1997. The "Magnetic Ride Select" crap is for the Starbucks crowd.. and the most import piece of info though, is that the fastest lap times and 1/4 miles are set with the systems disabled ;) (that includes pulling the ABS fuse)

The Veyron is not a "drivers" car.. it is the physical embodiment of the PlayStation console ;)

[TeflonTron]

Have you ever driven one? I haven't either, but I personally know of about 10 people who have, and they all say the same thing: that's it's not just the speed that you are left with, but the way that the car does what it does and how it seemingly defies what you think is possible. They also say that its brakes will snap your neck, that it grips like glue and will corner like a beast. It's also 100% confidence inspiring, totally comfortable inside and is basically the shit.

My PERSONAL opinion is that the car is wonderful in what it can do, and I respect it for that, but it also doesn't inspire me to want to own one.

[RC45]

Have you ever driven one? I haven't either, but I personally know of about 10 people who have, and they all say the same thing: that's it's not just the speed that you are left with, but the way that the car does what it does and how it seemingly defies what you think is possible. They also say that its brakes will snap your neck, that it grips like glue and will corner like a beast. It's also 100% confidence inspiring, totally comfortable inside and is basically the shit.
Exactly.. all these are only possible because the car has computer systems to keep accelleration, braking and turning at a level than does not exceed the levels of tyre adhesion.

It's the most basic of concepts that any competant driver knows and understands.

Any modern ABS car will produce "neck snapping braking" - many cars will leave you with seat belt bruises they stop so hard.

Any high HP car with traction control and assisted mechanisms produces spleen squashing acceleration.

And any big tyre and active handling equiped car can induce awe inspiring turning forces - there is nothing unique about this.

All that they designers did was ask "Can we produce some computers and driver aids to support more input power and keep the mayhem in control?"

And they did.

The same systems and software will be sold to other car makers who will produce a Veyron performing car without the glitz and glamour and do so for $200,000 :P

[TeflonTron]

The Veyron is really no no different to a Skyline or an Evo in most regards. An Evo should not be able to corner like it can, but it has so much electrical wizardry that it can. The same holds true with the Skyline.

I know that a lot of modern cars can stop on a dime, but I think that they Veyron is in a class of its own, above even the McLaren Mercedes SLR.

[nthfinity]

Have you ever driven one? I haven't either, but I personally know of about 10 people who have, and they all say the same thing: that's it's not just the speed that you are left with, but the way that the car does what it does and how it seemingly defies what you think is possible. They also say that its brakes will snap your neck, that it grips like glue and will corner like a beast. It's also 100% confidence inspiring, totally comfortable inside and is basically the shit.

My PERSONAL opinion is that the car is wonderful in what it can do, and I respect it for that, but it also doesn't inspire me to want to own one.
I personally know one owner, and have personally met 6 more that I can't be arsed thier names, as I only met them once so far LOL. I wonder if i met Tom Celini...

that said, it means nothing.

the car is spectacular in terms of performance, and style, and computational output ;) I love it. RC is just out of his mind, and hates it because everso loves it :P

pitty these videos are total shit

come spring, perhaps something much much clearner will arrive ;)

[gis]

Have you ever driven one? I haven't either, but I personally know of about 10 people who have, and they all say the same thing: that's it's not just the speed that you are left with, but the way that the car does what it does and how it seemingly defies what you think is possible. They also say that its brakes will snap your neck, that it grips like glue and will corner like a beast. It's also 100% confidence inspiring, totally comfortable inside and is basically the shit.
Exactly.. all these are only possible because the car has computer systems to keep accelleration, braking and turning at a level than does not exceed the levels of tyre adhesion.

It's the most basic of concepts that any competant driver knows and understands.

Any modern ABS car will produce "neck snapping braking" - many cars will leave you with seat belt bruises they stop so hard.

Any high HP car with traction control and assisted mechanisms produces spleen squashing acceleration.

And any big tyre and active handling equiped car can induce awe inspiring turning forces - there is nothing unique about this.

All that they designers did was ask "Can we produce some computers and driver aids to support more input power and keep the mayhem in control?"

And they did.

The same systems and software will be sold to other car makers who will produce a Veyron performing car without the glitz and glamour and do so for $200,000 :P

personlly i dont think you could drive a 1000hp car with full confidence without these driver aids,yes theres many 1000hp modified cars,supras,skylines and your friends very own vette,but i doubt he could take his vette round a track or on road and drive it 100% without any aids at all :wink:

[RC45]

personlly i dont think you could drive a 1000hp car with full confidence without these driver aids,yes theres many 1000hp modified cars,supras,skylines and your friends very own vette,but i doubt he could take his vette round a track or on road and drive it 100% without any aids at all :wink:

Thats the point - the Veyron is simply a rolling PS2 - a very expensive rolling PS2 :P ;)

[gis]

but at least with there "rolling PS2" they wont simply die the second they decide to use its power,coz im sure if you werent concentrating 100% in a veyron the aids would make sure you could try again......were as im sure the second you have a lapse of concentration in the 1000hp vette your not gonna try it again,unless your lucky.

keep in mind the rolling PS2 costs as muc as it does is simply because everything thats the best for a car.this car has it,but having this power to accelerate probably as quick,maybe quicker then your friends vette,this veyron can cruise in comfort whilst you look at the best materials used to make the interior :wink:

[RC45]

but at least with there "rolling PS2" they wont simply die the second they decide to use its power,coz im sure if you werent concentrating 100% in a veyron the aids would make sure you could try again......were as im sure the second you have a lapse of concentration in the 1000hp vette your not gonna try it again,unless your lucky.

keep in mind the rolling PS2 costs as muc as it does is simply because everything thats the best for a car.this car has it,but having this power to accelerate probably as quick,maybe quicker then your friends vette,this veyron can cruise in comfort whilst you look at the best materials used to make the interior :wink:

I am calling it a rolling PS2 because of its computer aids - just like playing GT4 with all aids on :P ;)

Remember that the aids will be reducing the 1000hp net-effect on the wet track down to about 500hp levels.. so a 599 would probably out run the Veyron on the wet track any way ;)

SO at the end of the say, the 1000hp computer aided Veyron is really no different to a 700hp non-T/C Supra ;)

[twboy1999]

ps2?
more like PS3

haha

[RC45]

ps2?
more like PS3

haha

Thats true, think of the Veyron an AUdiTT-HD ;)

[gis]

well if u bring a wet track into it......surely the veyron wins yet again over equally powered cars,or any RWD/FWD car as it has its aids and 4wd.yes its very expensive an even an impreza or evo would outrun a 1000hp supra or vette in the wet,but the veyron woudl just do it faster :wink:

[RC45]

well if u bring a wet track into it......surely the veyron wins yet again over equally powered cars,or any RWD/FWD car as it has its aids and 4wd.yes its very expensive an even an impreza or evo would outrun a 1000hp supra or vette in the wet,but the veyron woudl just do it faster :wink:

So in other words, it is just a rolling drivers aid ;) :P

[gis]

lol u have an answer for everything dont you?

i dont see how u cant respect the car for what it is

[JoeHahn]

Remember that the aids will be reducing the 1000hp net-effect on the wet track down to about 500hp levels.. so a 599 would probably out run the Veyron on the wet track any way ;)

Best post of this whole thread! :roll:

[AE86Baz]

Until you've seen one of these cars launch and disappear off into the distance you have no idea of the event they are... I was a sceptic until recently, but now I have huge respect for it.

[RC45]

lol u have an answer for everything dont you?

i dont see how u cant respect the car for what it is

I cant respect it because its just a rolling drivers aid.

Whats the point of it all?

Until we see actual lap times that show the Veyron can lap well known tracks faster than other super cars, its really pointless - isn' it?

I mean if the car modulates throttle and brakes and torque distribution to allow the driver to just "mash the gas" and hold on, all it is good for is simply rolling on, giggling like a school girl.. mashing the brake pedal - yelling WWHHHOOOWEEEEEEE, and then mashing th gas again ;)

That would get a little old after a while (not to mention the brakes would be fried before long - as you could see in the video - that was probably as a result of all the Active Handling braking going on).

I mean you can do the same thing ina CGT... rollon and hit the brake.. roll on and hit the brakes... :P

Who knows, maybe the 1200hp Porker 917 would destroy the Veyron in a head to head battle - with the right driver ;)

[tforth]

Isn't this called a 'stan' :?:


Here are some more clips for Veyron fans:

German review - check out the front rotors @ 3:10 min after some track work:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2826980160676948882&q=veyron

2 videos by turbo (french) - check out Rafenal (sp?) driving it through the french countryside in the first one, and the track work about 2/3s through the second clip (the best I've seen to date):

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5951942495925871423&q=veyron

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4108502740408106042&q=veyron

A classic evo clip of Jethro B. having fun with the camera man:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8148406308614564224&q=veyron

a nothing special arab clip, that I just haven't seen before:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2130117624482286852&q=veyron

Enjoy :wink:

[Stoopie]

Remember that the aids will be reducing the 1000hp net-effect on the wet track down to about 500hp levels.. so a 599 would probably out run the Veyron on the wet track any way ;)

Best post of this whole thread! :roll:

Sure, RC45 is right that the Veyron is a car that helps the driver an awful lot, but your post doesn't make any sense to me. Since the car continually searches for the best set-up of the car during certain circumstances, it's only logical to reduce the amount of bhp when in the wet. If 599 bhp would've been ideal for the wet, the Veyron would've reduced it to 599 bhp, now wouldn't it?
That seems a lot more logical to me..

[JoeHahn]

Remember that the aids will be reducing the 1000hp net-effect on the wet track down to about 500hp levels.. so a 599 would probably out run the Veyron on the wet track any way ;)

Best post of this whole thread! :roll:

Sure, RC45 is right that the Veyron is a car that helps the driver an awful lot, but your post doesn't make any sense to me. Since the car continually searches for the best set-up of the car during certain circumstances, it's only logical to reduce the amount of bhp when in the wet. If 599 bhp would've been ideal for the wet, the Veyron would've reduced it to 599 bhp, now wouldn't it?
That seems a lot more logical to me..

A 599 would struggle to beat a WRX around a wet track let alone a Veyron, its as simple as that. Add more standing water and the gap widens.

[blinkmeat]

:shock: that's gotta suck! Great car though

thanks

[dash]

It's so pathetic when people get horny about their 1000bhp+ Corvettes -it's still straight line crap with no turning ability. On Top Gear they said one thing the other day "curves are unknown in America" - lol, so true.
Anyway, let's make a 24 hour race with You "super-duper vettes" and Veyron, we'll see if they could handle tha race like at least one hour. xD
Every Carrera GT, every Zonda F, every Enzo gonna whoop every damn Corvette/Viper/You name it on a proper road (yes, with proper I mean european).

[TopGearNL]

It's so pathetic when people get horny about their 1000bhp+ Corvettes -it's still straight line crap with no turning ability. On Top Gear they said one thing the other day "curves are unknown in America" - lol, so true.
Anyway, let's make a 24 hour race with You "super-duper vettes" and Veyron, we'll see if they could handle tha race like at least one hour. xD
Every Carrera GT, every Zonda F, every Enzo gonna whoop every damn Corvette/Viper/You name it on a proper road (yes, with proper I mean european).

Yep true!

But why only talk about Vettes, same is for the Skylines and so on...

You can give them a million HP, if the chassis can't put it to the road its useless.

Don't forget about the Zo6 thats proof that the americans can build a good car :roll:

[gis]

indeed the Z06 is a great car,no doubt about it.and as TopGearNL said it aint just 1000hp vettes that will lose out in corners,a supra,skyline,viper will tend not to have the same cornering ability it would have with its stock or a bit more hp above stock.

you can look at the veyron with the same view i suppose,but it will be better than a 1000hp RWD car simply because of 4WD,but the thing that lets the veyrn down is its weight.at the end of the day any normal road going 1000hp modified car is only good for straight line,but again the veyron can pull it off due to havin a shit load of technology,and as RC45 says all the drivers aids and 4wd,thats why its easier to drive than other 1000hp cars

[TopGearNL]

indeed the Z06 is a great car,no doubt about it.and as TopGearNL said it aint just 1000hp vettes that will lose out in corners,a supra,skyline,viper will tend not to have the same cornering ability it would have with its stock or a bit more hp above stock.

you can look at the veyron with the same view i suppose,but it will be better than a 1000hp RWD car simply because of 4WD,but the thing that lets the veyrn down is its weight.at the end of the day any normal road going 1000hp modified car is only good for straight line,but again the veyron can pull it off due to havin a shit load of technology,and as RC45 says all the drivers aids and 4wd,thats why its easier to drive than other 1000hp cars

Thanks for making my point GIS, your absolutely right!

RC is spot-on too, you can't call the Veyron a car anymore, its more like a driving computer. Its the same as the Eurofighter, that can't fly without the onboard computers constantly adjusting the controls.

[gis]

yea,what RC says is true,but the point i was tryin to get across was around a track to make 1000hp work,they need these driver aids or youd simply get a kickin the balls,lol

and the eurofighter....droooool,lol what a plane,that was tested bout 20 miles from my house :D

[TopGearNL]

yea,what RC says is true,but the point i was tryin to get across was around a track to make 1000hp work,they need these driver aids or youd simply get a kickin the balls,lol

and the eurofighter....droooool,lol what a plane,that was tested bout 20 miles from my house :D

Yeah I get your point :wink:

But HP isn't everything, weight counts too :P

[RC45]

It's so pathetic when people get horny about their 1000bhp+ Corvettes -it's still straight line crap with no turning ability.

Are you an actual idiot or do you just play one on the Intardwebs?

"With no turning ability" - thats interesting - no doubt you are aware the C5 Z06 dances toe to toe with the GT3 and 360CS and can eclispe the 996TT if need be on the race track-- you knew this right?

Now, add 500hp to a 996 and 500hp to a 360CS and 500 hp to a 996TT and 500hp to a Viper - gee fucking whiz - you get the same thing you do when you add 500 to the C5 Z06

But of course you knew this right? I am sure you knew the C5 Z06 was able to lap the Nurbirgring (as an example) in 7m56s - thats a very decent time. The same is true for every other road course.. but of course you knew that.

So to say something as dumb as "a 1000hp sports car has no tuning ability" is down right stupid - to say so with out proof is idiotic.

Have you ever read a Road & Track Super Tuner shootout, where super-tuned cars go and turn like bats out of hell?


On Top Gear they said one thing the other day "curves are unknown in America" - lol, so true.

Are you a complete moron? If "there are no curves in amerika" exactly how do you explain the Viper GTS ACR, Viper SRT/10, C5 Z06, C6 Z06 and Ford GT - not to mention the Mosler MT900 and Saleen S7?

You of course knew that the C6 Z06 lapped Nurburgring in 7m43s... right?

You of course knew that the C6 Z06 dances toe to toe with the F430, Ford GT, Viper SRT/10, 997TT etc... Right? - you knew this - right?


Anyway, let's make a 24 hour race with You "super-duper vettes" and Veyron, we'll see if they could handle tha race like at least one hour.

So - you seem to think that the Veyron would be able race endurance style against other super-tuer cars? You might be a little concerned that the brakes on the Veuron would be destroyed after a few hour - because of course you knew that active handling uses brakes to modulate car rotation and maintain stability - as well as stop the car.. and with 4000lbs to haul around they wont survive - but you no doubt knew this.. right?


xD
Every Carrera GT, every Zonda F, every Enzo gonna whoop every damn Corvette/Viper/You name it on a proper road (yes, with proper I mean european).
So now you are saying a 620hp Carrera GT is a better than a 500hp C6 Z06 or a 500hp Viper SRT/10... no shit Sherlock... :roll: :roll: - the fight will be a lot closer than you imagine though... and you don't get much more "European" than Nurburgring - so you argument is moot.. you are pwned by your own stupidity.

C6 Z06 lapped the Ring in 7m43... add another 120hp and the car will right there with the CGT - which not only costs $400,000 more but alos uses aero-aids and super-expensive carbon fibre contruction and a forumla 1 generation V10...

The C6 Z06 uses a pushrod V8 and a transverse leaf spring suspension and has the engine towards the front of the car.. so you would hope the CGT would beat a stock C6 Z06.

But if you are talking super-tuned car versus stock Enzo, CGT, Zonda, CCX etc etc - it is a non-issue. The Amercican cars already proved they ave the handling - give them the HP and you lose.

I am guessing you are either an 11 year old fan boy or an idiot... you entire stance and opinion is bullshit.

Come back when you have some proof of your pathetic rants.

[TopGearNL]

I am guessing you are either an 11 year old fan boy or an idiot... you entire stance and opinion is bullshit.

Come back when you have some proof of your pathetic rants.

Amen! :P

Its quite scary RC since I agree with everything you say :wink:

[gis]

yea,what he says is very true.giv the new Z06 a bit more hp and it would obviously be up there speed wise with the likes of supercars,being the CGT,enzo,SLR......but again,id liek to point out RC that as you always say the M3 is underpowered,giv that the power to that of the Z06....it be right there with it,correct? :wink:

[RC45]

but again,id liek to point out RC that as you always say the M3 is underpowered,giv that the power to that of the Z06....it be right there with it,correct? :wink:

Of course.. a 500hp M3 would be killer.. but you hardly ever see one, since its not easy to get the M3 hamster wheel to reliably put out 500hp though ;)

And out here the boy racers in their 350hp "tuned" M3's are always buzzing around like overgrown dragon flys ;) hehe

[gobs3z]

I really have never understand the argument that gets brought up every time the Veyron is the subject of conversation. Sure...it uses more electronics then any other car on the road today, only second to an F1 car (a little exagerated). But why put down a car that didn't need to be built. VW made a 100+ million dollar sacrifice and we're complaining about a car we're never going to drive. It's a car with no point other then proving German over engineering. It was meant for the people that pointlessly buy phones like the $8k Virtu, or a $20k swiss watch. They buy is because they can. If i had that the kind of financial means, i sure as hell would buy one, as well as an Exige, Sagaris, AMV8, Zonda F and lets throw in a black Viper ACR. Just stop bitching about a car that is an engineering marvel, whether or not its not a drivers car. Who the f*** cares, I have an Exige to be my drivers car. :D

[Stoopie]

I am guessing you are either an 11 year old fan boy or an idiot... you entire stance and opinion is bullshit.

Come back when you have some proof of your pathetic rants.

RC calm down for a bit. I think he means tuned cars, not the stock Z06 and cars like that. Just like TopGearNL said, those tuned cars don't stand a chance if their chassis isn't right for the ride anymore.


So to say something as dumb as "a 1000hp sports car has no tuning ability" is down right stupid - to say so with out proof is idiotic.

That would be an idiotic thing to say, but he didn't. He said those overtuned cars have no turning ability. Not the stock supercars. I won't say those tuned cars have no turning ability at all, but compared to the cars that are stock 1000+ hp..

[dash]

RC45: no other can be a bigger idiot than you are. (actually I don't think that and will explain later why)
First you call it C5 Z06 (WRONG!!!) and than you call it C6 Z06 (right - but probably a coincidense).

Saying things about CGT and Enzo I meant competition with 1000bhp+ Vettes and stuff (not the stock ones).

The ability of reading and understanding (at the same time) is a rare thing and obviously something totally unknown to you. You knew that right? lol

I never said Z06 is a bad car. It's finaly something great to drive. Well, after 50 years of developing the Corvette it was about time to do a proper turning car, no? xD

Z06 as accurate in driving as GT3? lol but what do I know, I'm not an american, right? lol

You have no idea about Veyron itself, You knew that right? lol
3 years of developing the breaks alone and making them etremely durable (they can operate in temperatures up to 3 times higher than the most sports cars could handle), but what do they know about breaks, right? Only americans know, right? xD

Stoopie got my point instantly. Is your IQ Mr. RC45 lower than 80, so you can't understand what you are reading?Does your brain have ability to draw conclusions instead of turning you into lil' offended kid? Are You a 11 year old kid, as you called me? I'm sure not, so it's even worse.

But let me explain a little. Most of the home made 1000bhp+ "beasts" are made the cheapest possible way. All they do is put some huge turbos in the engine, modeified pistons and valves and there we go. You have to keep in mind that a 1000bhp + a good tires gonna sqeeze that back suspension to the ground, front goes up and there we go, no turning ability - that's what I meant. No, springs for 200$ is not the answer. ;)
There was a video with a BMW 3 (E30) here on the forums. It had like 900bhp, but when the turbo was turning on, front was going up so the steering wheel was useless. That's what most people do, all about the engine.

One more thing about Corvette - why does it have to be so cheap made?

RC45: you don't like Top Gear, do you? xD

Now back to the idiot thing.
First of all, idiot is not able to read and wright. You'd know that if you only knew the meaning of the word you used. So who's a bigger "idiot", a guys who said some true things or a guy who's using words without knowing the meaning?
Maybe the number of "Ferrari horses" by your nickname make you so conceited?
Draw your own conclusions.

[gobs3z]

I never said Z06 is a bad car. It's finaly something great to drive. Well, after 50 years of developing the Corvette it was about time to do a proper turning car, no? xD

Z06 as accurate in driving as GT3? lol but what do I know, I'm not an american, right? lol

One more thing about Corvette - why does it have to be so cheap made?



First off, the new Z will most likely be able to take on the new GT2 at half the cost. GM puts the vast majority of it's money into the chassis and drivetrain of the vette, and it gets taken out on the interior quality. But if you want to drive a luxury car, then buy a Bentley and stop complaining. Aston actually makes poor interiors as well, thats the only car i've heard of where the plastic fell off the GPS screen. Astons aren't fast either, but they're a gorgeous car to look at. I assume you're going to tell me that Le Mans has too many straights on the track and thats why the Corvette can win their. The ceramics brakes on Porsches had massive failures, but it's German so it must have been an American part on the brakes. The motors in the E46 M3 were blowing up due to a design flaw. The old Viper ACR racing at the 2006 24H Nurburgring turned in a 3rd place finish against the new 997 Porsches out of Germany(hows also prevously won it) , but the Nurburgring has too many straights right? Mind you, the Viper or any other company does not have the massive Porsche factory racing develpment. Screw you and your ignorance, why don't you open up your little mind and find the good things that each car has brought to the auto industry (minus the Geo Storm), but i assume you're too ignorant to do that.

[sentra_dude]

Hahaha, time to break out some popcorn! :lol:

[dash]

Only because I'm not American I'm ignorant. Great! lol

[gobs3z]

Only because I'm not American I'm ignorant. Great! lol

Nope, you're ignorant because you're close minded, and for you to assume that i think you're ignorant because you're not American shows how naïve you are as well.

[dash]

Close minded = I don't think the way Americans do? xD

[mit5005]

Why do you keep relating people's criticisms of you to whether you are American or not?

You are the one downgrading American handling in your "On Top Gear they said one thing the other day "curves are unknown in America" - lol, so true." comment.

I would call you ignorant no matter where you were from.

[RC45]

[see post further down]

[RC45]

RC45: no other can be a bigger idiot than you are. (actually I don't think that and will explain later why)
First you call it C5 Z06 (WRONG!!!) and than you call it C6 Z06 (right - but probably a coincidense).

Heheh owned by your own ignorance.

History lesson cup cake:

1963 Corvette C3 Z06
Class winning race car used against the "super cars" of the day. Yes cup cake.. this car took on the Ferraris, Jags, Porsches etc and won.

2001 ~ 2004 Corvette C5 Z06
Lapped Nurburgring in 7m56s - ooohhh really? But - thats the same speed as the Porsche 996 GT3... oh my.. looks like you ignorance owns you again.

2006 ~2007 (maybe 08 ) Corvette C6 Z06
Lapped Nurburgring in 7m43s... Oh my that is really fast isn't it? Again owned by your own stupidity.


Saying things about CGT and Enzo I meant competition with 1000bhp+ Vettes and stuff (not the stock ones).

Hehe - what a tool... I have seen tuned Vettes and Vipers lined up against CGT's etc.. you haven't.. guess who is speaking from experience? Probably not you.


The ability of reading and understanding (at the same time) is a rare thing and obviously something totally unknown to you. You knew that right? lol

You have not provided a single reply that shows you are even have a drivers license - let alone actually know what you are talking about.


I never said Z06 is a bad car. It's finaly something great to drive. Well, after 50 years of developing the Corvette it was about time to do a proper turning car, no? xD

Finally? Unbeknownst to you, there has been a Ferrari/Porsche matching/beating Corvette available since 1955... you are just ignorant to this fact.

As with the 911, where there have been various versions released every year - some better than others, if you knew what optioned car to buy, there has been a Corvette able to dance toe to toe with the Euros every year.. magazine comparisons and more importantly, racing wins have been proving this since 1955 when first raced.


Z06 as accurate in driving as GT3? lol but what do I know, I'm not an american, right? lol

You are however an ignorant git... back to back tests (many magazines) and many track days with private cars lapping and then in actual competition have proved this.

Please provide the factual basis for your opinions of simply piss off. OK? We don't need trolls like you on the forums :)


You have no idea about Veyron itself, You knew that right? lol
3 years of developing the breaks alone and making them etremely durable (they can operate in temperatures up to 3 times higher than the most sports cars could handle), but what do they know about breaks, right? Only americans know, right? xD

Again - quote your sources that definitively show that your opinion is correct. I have fist hand reported witness of severe heat failure and fade of Veyron brakes.. what does you contact at the Nurburgring say?


Stoopie got my point instantly. Is your IQ Mr. RC45 lower than 80, so you can't understand what you are reading?Does your brain have ability to draw conclusions instead of turning you into lil' offended kid? Are You a 11 year old kid, as you called me? I'm sure not, so it's even worse.

Put up or STFU. You are a useless troll clogging JW with tripe... if you are here to discuss factually performance cars and you have some positive to contribute stay - if not leave - we don't need yet another troll.


But let me explain a little. Most of the home made 1000bhp+ "beasts" are made the cheapest possible way. All they do is put some huge turbos in the engine, modeified pistons and valves and there we go. You have to keep in mind that a 1000bhp + a good tires gonna sqeeze that back suspension to the ground, front goes up and there we go, no turning ability

Again - you are literally spewing actual shit out of your mouth as if it were a second anus and you had diarrhea...

You have absofuckinglutely not the foggiest idea of what you speak.

When MTI, RSI, Hennessey, LPE et al turn up at a Motortrend Super Tuner SHootout with cars with $100,000+ of engine, drive train and suspension engineering - and they delivery earth shaking performance, that is no the same as some Kraut in a BeenerMobile high on Schnapps.


- that's what I meant. No, springs for 200$ is not the answer. ;)
There was a video with a BMW 3 (E30) here on the forums. It had like 900bhp, but when the turbo was turning on, front was going up so the steering wheel was useless. That's what most people do, all about the engine.

See above - then piss off... you are a troll, an ignorant troll.


One more thing about Corvette - why does it have to be so cheap made?

Well - here is the answer - why does performance have to cost so much in Europe that only the super-rich can afford it?


RC45: you don't like Top Gear, do you? xD

A couple things - I am not American - and I enjoy Top gear for the entertainment it is - you on the other hand believe it to be the gospel.


Now back to the idiot thing.
First of all, idiot is not able to read and wright. You'd know that if you only knew the meaning of the word you used. So who's a bigger "idiot", a guys who said some true things or a guy who's using words without knowing the meaning?

The word is write you idiot.


Maybe the number of "Ferrari horses" by your nickname make you so conceited?
Draw your own conclusions.
No - the number of Ferrari Horses by my name means that if you piss me off I can have you banned.

Draw your own conclusions.

[novass]

Now back to the idiot thing.
First of all, idiot is not able to read and wright.

I generally dont bring up spelling and grammatical errors as a form of argument on the web, especially here since we have many different nations and languages represented. Since you brought it up though, I have to make a comment.

Is this sentence, "First of all, idiot is not able to read and wright." supposed to be ironic in the fact that the sentence structure is shit and write is not spelled with a g or a h and has an e at the end?

And for fuck's sake, give up the American argument already. Is has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I am willing to bet that every car company employee base is comprised of people from all over the world and, furthermore, most car companies are not even owned by people in the country in which they claim origin anymore.

You say our cars suck in the turns? I say yours suck in a straight line! How is that argument? Sounds educated and full of fact right? No, it makes me sound like a closed minded ass clown. For the record, closed minded does not equal that you dont think like Americans do. In this case it means you are too set in your dumbass ways to look past the fact that a car was made in America and actually look at the car itself.

[RC45]

That would be an idiotic thing to say, but he didn't. He said those overtuned cars have no turning ability. Not the stock supercars. I won't say those tuned cars have no turning ability at all, but compared to the cars that are stock 1000+ hp..

???? Name a stock car with 1000hp?

Oh - there is only 1.. and there are many many many many many tuner cars that outhandle the Veyron.. you obvioulsy did not read the latest Super Tuner Shoot Out did you??

:roll:

I'll post the link to the well known article... after I get round to ripping dash a second shitter.. ;)

edit: see above a few posts for the shitter ripping ;) - heres a link to shut all your mouths for a wile.. I will have more later.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_performance_sports_coupe_comparison/index.html

[nthfinity]

on direct authority from Bugatti; in 2005 during NS testing.... LATE in the testing; the brakes failed through a burst line, and there was a subsequent crash.

The Veyron is no track car; it is a fun car, an amazing car sure. It handles well for its weight, and may even stout out better lap times then the Macca F1 with little effort... but against a modern sportscar, definately not.

[tforth]

RC45,

You keep referencing NB lap times, which I and most credible OEs agree is pretty much the best measure or performance available. So, I did a quick check for a list of NB times and this is what I found @http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=476. I know sport auto should have a more comprehensive list somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

I excluded the top 2, as they are not 'really' road cars. That being said, it looks like (see below) 'your' Z06 comes in 9th (excludes 2nd CGT time). Keep in mind, that this list does not include many cars that have a fair chance of being faster than the Z06, like the 599 GTB for example. Also note the 996 GT3 RS with the same time and approx 120 less hp. This should suggest something to you about the Z06's somewhat non-ideal handling I guess, eh?

Don't get me wrong, the Z06 packs the biggest punch for its price, but it doesn't cost very much, does it? None, of the non-American reviews that I have seen/read extol it's handling. They don't say it's brutal like prior generations; just not as good as could be, especially when it's bumpy. This is shown by the better times of the 997 GT3 and turbo, which have a noticeably worse power/weight ratio. They also have a non-ideal weight distribution (i.e. rear engine).

The list:

7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl, (Autobild 07/04)
7:32* - 164.071 km/h – Pagani Zonda F, 650 PS/ 1230 kg, (*mfr.) www.autodrome-cannes.com/index-eng.asp
7:34 - 163.586 km/h - Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1418 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto), oct,17-18 05
7:36 - 162.631 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (02)
7.39* - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1395 kg, *mfr. (quote sport auto 05/06)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h – Bugatti 16/4 Veyron, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 07/04)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
7:42* - 160.519 km/h – Ford GT, 550 PS/ 1521 kg (*as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073&mID=1384471&l=d
7:43 - 160.173 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Roehrl (MOTOR magazine)

[RC45]

RC45,

You keep referencing NB lap times, which I and most credible OEs agree is pretty much the best measure or performance available. So, I did a quick check for a list of NB times and this is what I found @http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=476. I know sport auto should have a more comprehensive list somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

I excluded the top 2, as they are not 'really' road cars. That being said, it looks like (see below) 'your' Z06 comes in 9th (excludes 2nd CGT time). Keep in mind, that this list does not include many cars that have a fair chance of being faster than the Z06, like the 599 GTB for example. Also note the 996 GT3 RS with the same time and approx 120 less hp. This should suggest something to you about the Z06's somewhat non-ideal handling I guess, eh?

Don't get me wrong, the Z06 packs the biggest punch for its price, but it doesn't cost very much, does it? None, of the non-American reviews that I have seen/read extol it's handling. They don't say it's brutal like prior generations; just not as good as could be, especially when it's bumpy. This is shown by the better times of the 997 GT3 and turbo, which have a noticeably worse power/weight ratio. They also have a non-ideal weight distribution (i.e. rear engine).

The list:

7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl, (Autobild 07/04)
7:32* - 164.071 km/h – Pagani Zonda F, 650 PS/ 1230 kg, (*mfr.) www.autodrome-cannes.com/index-eng.asp
7:34 - 163.586 km/h - Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1418 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto), oct,17-18 05
7:36 - 162.631 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (02)
7.39* - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1395 kg, *mfr. (quote sport auto 05/06)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h – Bugatti 16/4 Veyron, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 07/04)
7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
7:42* - 160.519 km/h – Ford GT, 550 PS/ 1521 kg (*as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073&mID=1384471&l=d
7:43 - 160.173 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Roehrl (MOTOR magazine)

What exactly is your point?

That other than a few ultra-expensive supercars the C6 Z06 with stock GoodYear RunFlat tyres can lap the same a barely street legal 996 GT3 RS or 997TT on Michelin Sport Cup tyres?

And show me a single article that does NOT say the 427ci 505hp V8 is brutal?

Not as brutal as previous generations?

The previous generation are only 405hp 346ci V8's.

So again- exactly what is your point?

BTW - the Veyron at 1000hp, 4wd, on board supercomputers and $1 million doesn do so well does it?

[tforth]

My point is that the Z06 fairs better in terms of price/performance in straight line testing, by quite some margin I would add, than it does at a more comprehensive venue (i.e. at the NS). I'll agree that tires are worth a few seconds, but then again you don't have to look much further up the list to find the M3 CSL which has a lb/hp of approx. 10:1 vs. the Z06 at approx. 6:1. Furthermore, the CSL is basically a mainstream sedan based coupe (BMW sells >500 000 3-series/yr).

Regarding the Veyron time, I wouldn't put much credence in it yet, just like the early SLR and CGT times, never mind the distinct absence of any credible Enzo time, now that it's even out of production!

[tforth]

My point is that the Z06 fairs better in terms of price/performance in straight line testing, by quite some margin I would add, than it does at a more comprehensive venue (i.e. at the NS). I'll agree that tires are worth a few seconds, but then again you don't have to look much further up the list to find the M3 CSL which has a lb/hp of approx. 10:1 vs. the Z06 at approx. 6:1. Furthermore, the CSL is basically a mainstream sedan based coupe (BMW sells >500 000 3-series/yr).

Regarding the Veyron time, I wouldn't put much credence in it yet, just like the early SLR and CGT times, never mind the distinct absence of any credible Enzo time, now that it's even out of production!

[tforth]

Oh, and btw, the original link posted on this thread was a stan of 1 of the 5 that I had posted on a similar Veyron thread on Dec. 10.

[dash]

RC45: first thanks for pointing out my mistake (wright <--- that one - always apreciated and I mean it) but isn't this shame when you criple your native language?

Now back on track. You can ban me? Oh noes!!! Momy. I guess taht should stop me from writting here what I just want to do. Unfortunately, I'm not that easy. ;)
I have never seen more complex-ridden, self repeating (you are troll [I thought only 11 year old kids use that silly expression], you are ignorant and so on - is this all you can aford?).
You are so in love with american cars that you can't see the ovious thing - they were always a piece of crap to drive (I don't say a Mustang Boss or a Corvette are legendary cars - legendary yes, great to drive - hell no). Why the rest of the world knows about it and only Americans claim that these are good cars? Is cheaply made, poor handling and not reliable car the essence of your expectations?
Wanna compete with your beloved Vette against McLaren F1 (yes the one none of you seen and also the one you think has crappy breaks and turns even worse than american cars).
You all guys just don't let me give up the american argument. All the things you say and the way you say it only proves that there is no more ignorant nation that you are (kinda unfair for the rest Americans, but guys like you are responsible for that).
RC45: please, have mercy - don't quote me here crappy magazine (I had the chance to see few american tv shows about cars - it was a punishment). What do you expect? That they say "oh, again it's a car that's cheap and sloppy but hey, it's american". Please.
I just can't believe you are 38 (I could understand if you were 18), your

And once again - you didn't understand a word from the "idiot" lecture, did you?
It's not about language stuff, it's about using words without knowing their meaning. You gotta be either stupid, offensive or ingnorant. No?

By the way, the thing with Corvette history is priceless, Do you mind if I quote that to my friends?

But hey, You can ban me right? Of course, I can understand that not everybody can handle a discussion and only guys with many "Ferrari horses" can be jerks to other users. Noobs like me with no horses at all, should stay in their caves, cause we know shit (after all we don't read fancy magazines and we don't have experience).

I just can't believe you are 38 (I could understand if you were 18), your arrogance and isultive way of expressing yourself just doesn't match to your profile age. Simply pathetic.

And once again - you didn't understand a word from the "idiot" lecture, did you?
It's not about language stuff, it's about using words without knowing their meaning. You gotta be either stupid, offensive or ingnorant. No?
Boor - that's the only word to describe the attitude.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_performance_sports_coupe_comparison/quarter_mile_test_results.html <-- is this some kinda of a dodgy joke I don't get? ROFL 1100bhp and this Vette has 4.3 from 0-60mph ahhahaha so pathetic. That's like what, italian cars could do in the late 80s? hahahahahah These cars are so pathetic jsut like th tuners. BTW what's that http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_strike_force_21s+2005_Lingenfelter_chevro let_corvette+rear_view.jpg reliability? xD

You just made my day. Thanks :)

[RC45]

RC45: first thanks for pointing out my mistake (wright <--- that one - always apreciated and I mean it) but isn't this shame when you criple your native language?

Now back on track. You can ban me? Oh noes!!! Momy. I guess taht should stop me from writting here what I just want to do. Unfortunately, I'm not that easy. ;)
I have never seen more complex-ridden, self repeating (you are troll [I thought only 11 year old kids use that silly expression], you are ignorant and so on - is this all you can aford?).
You are so in love with american cars that you can't see the ovious thing - they were always a piece of crap to drive (I don't say a Mustang Boss or a Corvette are legendary cars - legendary yes, great to drive - hell no). Why the rest of the world knows about it and only Americans claim that these are good cars? Is cheaply made, poor handling and not reliable car the essence of your expectations?
Wanna compete with your beloved Vette against McLaren F1 (yes the one none of you seen and also the one you think has crappy breaks and turns even worse than american cars).
You all guys just don't let me give up the american argument. All the things you say and the way you say it only proves that there is no more ignorant nation that you are (kinda unfair for the rest Americans, but guys like you are responsible for that).
RC45: please, have mercy - don't quote me here crappy magazine (I had the chance to see few american tv shows about cars - it was a punishment). What do you expect? That they say "oh, again it's a car that's cheap and sloppy but hey, it's american". Please.
I just can't believe you are 38 (I could understand if you were 18), your

And once again - you didn't understand a word from the "idiot" lecture, did you?
It's not about language stuff, it's about using words without knowing their meaning. You gotta be either stupid, offensive or ingnorant. No?

By the way, the thing with Corvette history is priceless, Do you mind if I quote that to my friends?

But hey, You can ban me right? Of course, I can understand that not everybody can handle a discussion and only guys with many "Ferrari horses" can be jerks to other users. Noobs like me with no horses at all, should stay in their caves, cause we know shit (after all we don't read fancy magazines and we don't have experience).

I just can't believe you are 38 (I could understand if you were 18), your arrogance and isultive way of expressing yourself just doesn't match to your profile age. Simply pathetic.

And once again - you didn't understand a word from the "idiot" lecture, did you?
It's not about language stuff, it's about using words without knowing their meaning. You gotta be either stupid, offensive or ingnorant. No?
Boor - that's the only word to describe the attitude.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_performance_sports_coupe_comparison/quarter_mile_test_results.html <-- is this some kinda of a dodgy joke I don't get? ROFL 1100bhp and this Vette has 4.3 from 0-60mph ahhahaha so pathetic. That's like what, italian cars could do in the late 80s? hahahahahah These cars are so pathetic jsut like th tuners. BTW what's that http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_strike_force_21s+2005_Lingenfelter_chevro let_corvette+rear_view.jpg reliability? xD

You just made my day. Thanks :)

Everything you have mentioned is bullshit.

Period.

You have not disputed a single thing I have presented.

All you have offered is unsubstantiated opinion.

The performance numbers I have discussed are factual and backed up by unternaitonal measurement and testing.

If you are going to sit there and dispute actual international roadtest results from British, German, French etc magazines and TV shows then you are not worth bothering with.

You still have not offered a single fact back - do you even drive, and if so what kind of car?

What car experience are you using as a basis for your opinion?

And then how many sports and performance cars have you driven on the street and how many on the track?

And how many have you actually tested?

Also - where do you publish your experieces and resutls?

This is where I publish mine...

http://www.jabbasworld.net/dload.php?action=file&file_id=1640
http://www.jabbasworld.net/pafiledb/images/screenshots/cover_1_4.jpg

SO again - what PRACTICAL experience are you basing your opinion on?

I ma basing mine on actual car experience and I hazard to guess I know a damn side more and have a damn side more experience than you have.

So - I know more than you (facyually porven) - I have more experience than you (demonstrated) --- please lets see your credentials, troll?

http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43387

[dash]

Kid, I don't say you don't have an experience. All I say now is that you are an arrogant, blinded and narrow minded kid.

That link you provided earlier with those tuned american cars - these numbers are enormously pathetic compared to all the cars I've mentioned. 4.2s from 0-60? hahahah is this a joke? This gotta be joke or else a plain M3 (E46) with "only" 346bhp is an ultimate super sports car. lol
Gimme a break.
You asking me about experience. What should I tell you? Even if I respond to that, will you believe me?
I do believe there are people way more competent than me to judge those cars.
You'd be probably very suprised if I'd tell you that I'd love to have Corvette C5 (yeah, the big, sloppy one because it's one of the prettiest cars ever made). Yet I know it wouldn't have a chance with any BMW or Audi or even a Ford (the german ones) on a twisted road.
Still I say it's pathetic to put a huge turbo to your stock car an pretend you have something better than Bugatti Veyron (also known as piece of art ;)).

By the way, do you have nightmares with trolls? :mrgreen:

EDIT:
One more thing. I do not worship Top Gear (for them only british cars are the best, so...), I think one of the best (if not THE best) shows is german Motorvision (always based on facts not personal preferences). Top Gear is a portion of fun with fancy cars.

[RC45]

Kid, I don't say you don't have an experience. All I say now is that you are an arrogant, blinded and narrow minded kid.

I am right and you are wrong AND you are an idiot.

This has been proven in in front of everybody - you spout incorrect opinion and is proven to be so.


That link you provided earlier with those tuned american cars - these numbers are enormously pathetic compared to all the cars I've mentioned. 4.2s from 0-60? hahahah is this a joke? This gotta be joke or else a plain M3 (E46) with "only" 346bhp is an ultimate super sports car. lol
Gimme a break.

Have ever seen a real M3 let alone driven one?


You asking me about experience. What should I tell you? Even if I respond to that, will you believe me?

I do believe there are people way more competent than me to judge those cars.

What should you say? How about put up or shut up.

If there are "people more competent" than you, what are basing you incorrect ramblings on then?


You'd be probably very suprised if I'd tell you that I'd love to have Corvette C5 (yeah, the big, sloppy one because it's one of the prettiest cars ever made). Yet I know it wouldn't have a chance with any BMW or Audi or even a Ford (the german ones) on a twisted road.

How stupid are you?

Name the BMW or Audi or European Ford that can perform at the same level as the C5 Z06... name just 1... just so we base this discussion on FACT not your stupidity.


Still I say it's pathetic to put a huge turbo to your stock car an pretend you have something better than Bugatti Veyron (also known as piece of art ;)).

How the hell do you think the Veyron makes its power then?


By the way, do you have nightmares with trolls? :mrgreen:

No - I just wait for a single one to ever post a single fact...


EDIT:
One more thing. I do not worship Top Gear (for them only british cars are the best, so...), I think one of the best (if not THE best) shows is german Motorvision (always based on facts not personal preferences). Top Gear is a portion of fun with fancy cars.
Really?

So whats the fastest street car you ever drove on a real race track?

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6587/twins6pw0.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twins6pw0.jpg)
I'm the one driving the Ruf RT12 that is chasing the Ruf CTR Yellowbird into Turn 1...

Again - what is the basis for every one of your incorrect "facts"? We know it's not experience of any kind...

[dash]

RC45: you're by far the most pathetic, dumb (cause only dumb people can't understand what they are reading) and very very retarded. How many times do I have to write the same thing that you could finaly understand it?
There is no one on this forum, and I mean no one so enormously dumb as you.
First I thought you are kinda big mouth kid - I was wrong.
Retard is the word that describes you the best.
Your facts are pure laugh.
Go back to school kid, learn again how to read with understanding.
You called me a tool, mate if I'm a tool than you surely gotta be the toolbox full of tools.
Shame there is no "biggest clown on the forum contest", you'd be unbeaten - no one is even close to you. :mrgreen:

By the way: where did I say C5 Z06? lol blind or stupid?

[RC45]

RC45: you're by far the most pathetic, dumb (cause only dumb people can't understand what they are reading) and very very retarded. How many times do I have to write the same thing that you could finaly understand it?
There is no one on this forum, and I mean no one so enormously dumb as you.
First I thought you are kinda big mouth kid - I was wrong.
Retard is the word that describes you the best.
Your facts are as pure laugh.

Disprove a single fact then..


Go back to school kid, learn again how to read with understanding.
You called me a tool, mate if I'm a tool than you surely gotta be the toolbox full of tools.

Based on what exactly? The fact that everything you typed in not only factually incorrect but poor basis for gossip let alone a debate?


Shame there is no "biggest clown on the forum contest", you'd be unbeaten - no one is even close to you. :mrgreen:

Is that all you have? Instead of offering any value to the forums at all, you simply simply choose to spew nonsense.


By the way: where did I say C5 Z06? lol blind or stupid?
Well - again, considering there are a number of suspension and model offerings in the 1997 - 2004 C5 Corvette line up, a Coupe, Convertable and Fixed Roof Coupe - each with differing levels of performance, and that the most basic "hairdresser" variant is better than any BMW or Audi you care to name, I am wondering what you are basing you comments on.

Compare year for year the base C5 Coupe 1997,98,99,2000,01,02,03 and 04 to the equivalent year base sporty Audi or BMW or Porsche for that matter and you will see you are agin wrong.

I would hope you are a performance enthusiast not a poser, so the assumption is you would choose the GT3 if you wanted a Porsche, a F360CS is you wanted a year matched Ferrari or the Z06 if you chose a Corvette.

Basically it is going to be like this - either come back and discuss factually or say good bye.

OK?

[dash]

It wasn't me who started this mess. All I wanted here was a discussion. If you'll read again my posts, you will see that.

[RC45]

It wasn't me who started this mess. All I wanted here was a discussion. If you'll read again my posts, you will see that.

Discussions are based on sharing factual information, you have offered no facts.

Zero.

Just flawed opinion that has been disproven.

JW is about factual discussions not lies and falsehoods.

Your choice if you want to stay around.

[Cockrocket]

Good to see a Veyron being given a bit of a thrash. Due to the price either weird actors like Tom Cruise or old, rich off-shore bankers wil be buying these, then locking them away in a gold plated shed! :roll:

[RC45]

Good to see a Veyron being given a bit of a thrash. Due to the price either weird actors like Tom Cruise or old, rich off-shore bankers wil be buying these, then locking them away in a gold plated shed! :roll:

That's the saddest bit of all...

[Minacious]

You know, I was going to leave this discussion alone since RC was handling it rather well, but since Americans (Dash, you do know RC isn’t a native of America, right?) as a whole have been brought in I had no choice but to speak my mind.

Dash, wow, what more can be said about your presence at JW up to this point. It has been interesting to say the least. If you are truly 69 years of age, you certainly don’t act like it. I won’t even touch on your grammar and spelling, but doing it correctly does make for an easier read.

You can’t honestly believe that all American sports cars are as bad as you say they are, can you? I’m American and not at all a fan of much of what comes out of this country, but there are exceptions when it comes to certain sports cars (namely the Corvette) that are built to do what they do and they are doing that very well and for a fraction of the cost when compared to rivals across the pond (Yes, cost plays a huge part in it). It’s almost as though you are offended that an American car can do as well and in many cases better. Why? I don’t care for Porsche (except for the CGT), but there is no denying what those cars can do, especially the GT offerings. Then when the truth about these American sports cars starts to rear its head the conversation turns into the old debate that American sports cars do well in a straight line but not in any places with turns. This is often accompanied with the statement that there are no turns in America. Two of the most ignorant statements that can possible be made and nothing more than cop-out when the debate isn’t in your favor. America has some of the most technically curvy roads on the damn planet. Do a little bit of research before opening your mouth and this will become apparent. As far as how well these American sports cars can do in the turns, I’ll let the numbers speak for themselves, and these numbers are being achieved on foreign soil too.

As far as real world experiences go, RC gets to smell the exhaust fumes, run the same track, and drive next to or in many of these cars that are being mentioned. I hate him for it and am very envious.:D Many who decide to debate with him have only magazines and internet forums to get their information. Who the hell would you believe the guy who is driving the car or the guy who saw it parked at the grocery store? The saying “truth hurts” has never shined more true than in many of the America versus the world debates here on JW.

[RC45]

As far as real world experiences go, RC gets to smell the exhaust fumes, run the same track, and drive next to or in many of these cars that are being mentioned.

And I barely have 1% or 1% of the experience and skill required to smell the gas fumes of some of the guys and gals I share the track with...

These people weekly drive some of the slickest, trickest and most exotic cars this side of J Lenos lockup..

...and to see these folks as excited by getting sideways in a CGT as they do when lapping in a spec Miata race car as they do when lapping in a street E63 as they do in a C5 Z as they do in an F430 which is the same enthusiams and excitement as they have for a Ford GT or an F40...

These are the people I take my queues from - folks who can buy 10 of any car in the world at once.. yet still get the same enjoyment from a $15,000 Miata as they do from priceless 935 racecar.... it's the driving that counts.. ;)


I hate him for it and am very envious.:D

Man - thats deep ;) *tears up* ;) hehe :oops: :oops:

[dash]

My quote "kinda unfair for the rest Americans, but guys like you are responsible for that" <--- did You read that?

I totaly agree with you that my english is far from being good - it's not my native language. There is only one thing bothering me - how da heck can you understand me if I'm so awful in english? ;) But I'd be highly ashamed if I'd cripple my native language as most of you do (sometimes I wonder if you even know how many tenses do you actually have in english or how to use them; or my beloved "who" instead of "whom" in most cases; how is it possible that average 14 year old Dutch speaks english more properly than 14 year old american - tests made by american organisations for your government).
Anyway I'd be more than happy if you'll point my mistakes every single time.

OK, enogh with the language thing.

RC45 isn't an American? He surely is saturated by (with?) USA ;)

One last remark about that experience thing. Is it (theoretically) possible that you or me could be a better actor than for example Dolph Lundgren or Chuck Norris? Even if we didn't act in any movie? ;) Got my point? ;) It's just an example.

[dash]

yet still get the same enjoyment from a $15,000 Miata as they do from priceless 935 racecar.... it's the driving that counts.. ;)



Finaly we agree.

[RC45]

My quote "kinda unfair for the rest Americans, but guys like you are responsible for that" <--- did You read that?

I totaly agree with you that my english is far from being good - it's not my native language. There is only one thing bothering me - how da heck can you understand me if I'm so awful in english? ;) But I'd be highly ashamed if I'd cripple my native language as most of you do (sometimes I wonder if you even know how many tenses do you actually have in english or how to use them; or my beloved "who" instead of "whom" in most cases; how is it possible that average 14 year old Dutch speaks english more properly than 14 year old american - tests made by american organisations for your government).
Anyway I'd be more than happy if you'll point my mistakes every single time.

OK, enogh with the language thing.

RC45 isn't an American? He surely is saturated by (with?) USA ;)

One last remark about that experience thing. Is it (theoretically) possible that you or me could be a better actor than for example Dolph Lundgren or Chuck Norris? Even if we didn't act in any movie? ;) Got my point? ;) It's just an example.

oh my god - you're dutch.. :roll:

Again - provide a single fact to back up your point of view or shut up and go away.

You keep coming back with useless stupid and assinine replies.

I can TELL you what an RT12 is like to drive around a race track... not because I drove one on Project Gotham Racing.. but rather in real life.

So if I tell you "an RT12 is this and that" then my opinion has a basis in fact and experience.

If I then say to you "a C5 Z06 is this and that" and I say "a Caterham Superlight is this and that" or even the CTR Yellowbird is this and that" - I know what I am talking about from practical experience.

This is why I say you are an idiot - you speak 'with authority" yet have nothing to say...

[RC45]

yet still get the same enjoyment from a $15,000 Miata as they do from priceless 935 racecar.... it's the driving that counts.. ;)



Finaly we agree.

No - we don't agree - finally you realized you are beat and out of your depth...

[Minacious]

Man, this entire reply said nothing, and I mean nothing of any substance. You’re like a dog chasing its tail; you’re going nowhere fast.

My quote "kinda unfair for the rest Americans, but guys like you are responsible for that" <--- did You read that?
Sure, I read it. It is a pitiful attempt to justify bashing Americans.

I totaly agree with you that my english is far from being good - it's not my native language. There is only one thing bothering me - how da heck can you understand me if I'm so awful in english? ;) But I'd be highly ashamed if I'd cripple my native language as most of you do (sometimes I wonder if you even know how many tenses do you actually have in english or how to use them; or my beloved "who" instead of "whom" in most cases; how is it possible that average 14 year old Dutch speaks english more properly than 14 year old american - tests made by american organisations for your government).
Anyway I'd be more than happy if you'll point my mistakes every single time.

There you go bashing Americans as a whole again. Now that you finally divulged where you are from I’m going to assume English wasn’t your first language and ease up on you as far as your use of it. You should know that continuing to bash Americans because of their use of English makes you look the fool if not using it properly yourself, regardless of your nationality. And the reason I can understand you even with the poor use of English is because I can read well. Not really all that hard to figure out.

RC45 isn't an American? He surely is saturated by (with?) USA
Is that what you see? Why, because the cars he's defending are American? He is simply defending cars that have a proven track record which many don’t want to see because they just so happen to be American.

[dash]

No, you pathetic boor. In oposite to you I know what I'm reading, saying. :wink:

Now there is a question. Does the fact of having a ride in Carrera 4S (997) make me an authority regarding that car? Even if I'd drive that car 4,5,7 times doesn't mean I'm competent to jude it. It needs some knowledge (also a concious mind) and something you don't have - criticism. Healthy criticism, not that kinky worshiping (Vette, Viper, you name it as long as it is american right? ;P) mumble.
You base on facts and experience? That's why you post a link to the test of american cars (1100bhps and stuff) where the 0-60mph times are above 4 seconds (well above) - only good old GT keeps up. Do you even thing sometimes before you write something?
Do You know how long does it take for Veyron from 0-60? Are you, for the love of God, friggin normal?! Lol a 1100bhp Vette is slower than M3 CSL (with "only" ~360bhp)? These are those american, gorgeously tuned cars? If they handle as well as they accelerate than you'll have another reason to call me some names - cause I'll be right once again. ;)

With every next post you prove your experience. :lol:

[dash]

Is that what you see? Why, because the cars he's defending are American?

Nope, because he's offensive, arrogant and thinks he's the centre of the world.

RC45:
By the way, I'm not Dutch.

There you go bashing Americans as a whole again. Now that you finally divulged where you are from I’m going to assume English wasn’t your first language and ease up on you as far as your use of it. You should know that continuing to bash Americans because of their use of English makes you look the fool if not using it properly yourself, regardless of your nationality. And the reason I can understand you even with the poor use of English is because I can read well. Not really all that hard to figure out.

Obviously you can't properly read, that's why you wrote that.
I'm not refering to all Americans - even a kid would understand that (so who are you?).
Who's a bigger fool, the one who doesn't know his native language properly (and of course refuses to admit that) or a guy, whos native language isn't english and he put some effort to learn it. I am aware of my weaknesses in english - trying to eliminate them. But mate, it's not a shame for me to cripple it from time to time. Of course, the whole world should speak english so you could understand them, right? ;)

[novass]

There you go bashing Americans as a whole again. Now that you finally divulged where you are from I’m going to assume English wasn’t your first language and ease up on you as far as your use of it. You should know that continuing to bash Americans because of their use of English makes you look the fool if not using it properly yourself, regardless of your nationality. And the reason I can understand you even with the poor use of English is because I can read well. Not really all that hard to figure out.

Obviously you can't properly read, that's why you wrote that.
I'm not refering to all Americans - even a kid would understand that (so who are you?).
Who's a bigger fool, the one who doesn't know his native language properly (and of course refuses to admit that) or a guy, whos native language isn't english and he put some effort to learn it. I am aware of my weaknesses in english - trying to eliminate them. But mate, it's not a shame for me to cripple it from time to time. Of course, the whole world should speak english so you could understand them, right? ;)

Who are you referring to then? We are all very proud of you for learning another language, almost as proud as seeing our kids take a crap in toilet for the first time, which, in your case is quite an appropriate analogy.

[TomirK]

I read these boards at least 3-4 times a day but hardly post at all, that probably makes me a leecher :mrgreen: but that's beside the point here.
When I first found JW I was a very similar thinking person to you i.e I hated american cars especially the Corvette regarding it as an american redneck sportscar with nothing but straightline speed which fell to pieces at the slightest whiff of a corner. The problem though was that like you I had no factual knowledge on which I could base such assumptions. After reading countless Vette debates on JW in which I have been presented with solid factual information I have begun to respect the car for what it is : an excellent affordable very well handling sportscar. This does not mean I would necessarily buy one, I'd take a 911 over it any day of the year but I accept the fact that for example a C5 ZO6 would blow my 997 carrera away on a twisty road or the nurburgring. One could argue that the Porsche has more steering feel is more precise etc but as I haven't driven either I am not in the position to make bullshit remarks and nor I think are you.
You slag everyone off for not being able to read with comprehension whereas not one of your replies actually intelligently contested RC45's or Minacious's arguments. You just keep repeating the same bullshit over and over again, it's quite unbelievable :shock: .

And last and not least your obsession with the 0-60 times :!: Do you seriously know jack shit about cars or are you trying to give us all a laugh here? Firstly, since when does the 0-60 time of a car have absolutely anything to do with on track and back road performance?(Of course when we are talking about such high horsepower cars with sub 5sec times). Have you ever heard of the word traction? Has it ever occured to you that it's not that easy to get 1100hp down on the road through the rear tyres? I suggest you take a look at the in gear and track times before moaning that an M3 has a similar time.
I suspect your response will be very similar to your previous one's but I just couldn't resist responding to your cretinous posts.
Are you sure that elderly dementia hasn't come a bit early to you? I sincerely hope that at your age I won't be so mentally impaired.
Tomirk

P.S. There is saying we have in Poland that I think fits you perfectly :
"Don't talk to an arse, it'll just shit on you"

[dash]

0-60 is actually one of the last things I care about. I pointed that out only to show how dumb is to assume that You put like a 1000bhp in your can and you can beat Veyron. It turns out you can't even beat M3 CSL if you don't know how to use that power. That's what's making me laugh. All the rednecks racing from one traffic lights to another.
How come suddenly 0-60 isn't that important to Americans? ;)
See what I love in M3 (and it's not the matter of taste) is the way it put the power from the engine on the road. Drive it, try, enjoy. You'll see.
And if you say RC replies intelligently than you're no better than he is. :wink:

I'll repeat as long as necessary = they'll (you also) will understand simple sentences.

One more thing, please don't compare me to yourself.

PS another jerk offending others. Bring some more. :lol:

[nthfinity]

0-60 is actually one of the last things I care about. I pointed that out only to show how dumb is to assume that You put like a 1000bhp in your can and you can beat Veyron. It turns out you can't even beat M3 CSL if you don't know how to use that power. That's what's making me laugh. All the rednecks racing from one traffic lights to another.
How come suddenly 0-60 isn't that important to Americans? ;)
See what I love in M3 (and it's not the matter of taste) is the way it put the power from the engine on the road. Drive it, try, enjoy. You'll see.
And if you say RC replies intelligently than you're no better than he is. :wink:

I'll repeat as long as necessary = they'll (you also) will understand simple sentences.

One more thing, please don't compare me to yourself.

PS another jerk offending others. Bring some more. :lol:

I think this takes the cake as the second most ignorant person ever to post on JW... search "realiean1" to find the no. 1 guy.

You obviously have NO experience in launching a car.

Many experienced drivers can't even hit magazine 0-60 times, while others completely devestate magazine 0-60 times. For example; a certain CGT owner I know can launch his to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds because he is intimately familiar with the prowess of the car, the engine, the clutch, and the torque curve. that is siginificantly faster then any publication i've read. --- this is also w/out any form of engine tuning beyond OEM.

So how does DOT legal racing slicks compare vs. hard compound runflats exactly? an E46 M3 CSL doesn't have anywhere near the ride comfort of a Z06. Porsche are the masters of the NS... until this summer ;) They have been testing there since before time practically. To see the Vette edging so much on a GT3 RS' lap time is simply staggering... espeicially condidering that the GT3 RS has a roll cage, is completely gutted, and has DOT Legal racing slicks on; of of which, the Z06 doesn't have.

are you familiar with rotational friction, and rolling resistance? I have a feeling you have never taken a physics class in your life; particularly at 14 years of age.

Cars like the M3 CSL (a M3 is here with CSL suspension), the Subaru STi, Evo.... normal cars that are turned into track stars all suffer from thier inferior chassis; that in order to make up the difference on a track, or timed run; the suspension is set up so stiflly it becomes a car that isn't enjoyable to drive. These suspensions are 100x worse then that which is in the Z06 stock in terms of ride comfort, and confidence on bumpy winding roads... like this one I frequent, and test cars on

http://www.nthimage.com/video_dump/NSX_11-5-06_0003.wmv

Come back in 4 years when you have the patience to do real research, instead of blindly believing everything that is easy to believe. Here you have been presented with fact after fact after fact, yet you still refuse to believe something is as good as it is.

My experience is that you believe what you believe; not because of evidence suggesting something is one way or another, but because it is what you want to believe.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

perhaps Americans are more like how Europeans are how they envinsion themselves, while the reverse is also true.

[RC45]

Is that what you see? Why, because the cars he's defending are American?

Nope, because he's offensive, arrogant and thinks he's the centre of the world.


Actually I am perfect.. well if not for my conceitedness I would be perfect.

You still haven't answered as to what you base your opinions on.

I base my opinion on the many and varied chassis I have driven on the road and track... what do you base yours on?

And I think the Poles are wise beyond belief with this little gem that fits you to a T "Don't talk to an arse, it'll just shit on you" and all you have been doing is shitting from the first post you made.

BTW, how many generations of M3 have you driven?

[novass]

PS another jerk offending others. Bring some more. :lol:

He is talking about himself in the third person now.

[Jabba]

PS another jerk offending others. Bring some more. :lol:

I am going to save you from embarrassing yourself any further on here by banning you. You sure have some problems it seems, that I hope a good psychiatrist could sort out for you :!:

[tforth]

To see the Vette edging so much on a GT3 RS' lap time is simply staggering... espeicially condidering that the GT3 RS has a roll cage, is completely gutted, and has DOT Legal racing slicks on; of of which, the Z06 doesn't have.

If you're referring to the 996 GT3 RS, don't forget about the extra 120 hp the Z06 has on it's side. BTW, are you implying that the roll cage provides the driver with extra confidence, or that the slight improvement in torsional rigidity makes all the difference?

A better reference for NS times will be when the 997 GT2 debuts. It should have similar power and more weight than the Z06. However, I would guess that it's lap time will approach the CGT's, getting very close to a 7:30. This would put it over 10s/lap faster than the Z06's rather questionable time with Jan Mag (i.e. what is Dan Hill's time for the Z06??).

The 997 GT2 should be able to wipe it in a straight line as well. I know, it will cost a lot more...

[RC45]

To see the Vette edging so much on a GT3 RS' lap time is simply staggering... espeicially condidering that the GT3 RS has a roll cage, is completely gutted, and has DOT Legal racing slicks on; of of which, the Z06 doesn't have.

If you're referring to the 996 GT3 RS, don't forget about the extra 120 hp the Z06 has on it's side. BTW, are you implying that the roll cage provides the driver with extra confidence, or that the slight improvement in torsional rigidity makes all the difference?

Actually he would be reffering to the fact that the GT3 RS is gutted, has almost race-tyres.


A better reference for NS times will be when the 997 GT2 debuts. It should have similar power and more weight than the Z06. However, I would guess that it's lap time will approach the CGT's, getting very close to a 7:30.

So now 2 years of extra development and almost certainlt barely-street legal tyres as Porsche normally provide count for nought I suppose?


This would put it over 10s/lap faster than the Z06's rather questionable time with Jan Mag

WHy is the time quesitonable? It was witnessed and photgraphed..


(i.e. what is Dan Hill's time for the Z06??).

It's Dave Hill, and why would he be driving the car? He is not a top level driver... and contrary to Intardweb rumours the C5 Z06 time of 7m46s was set by John Heinricy not Dave Hill.


The 997 GT2 should be able to wipe it in a straight line as well. I know, it will cost a lot more...
And again, 2 years of extra development don't count?

[tforth]

No, obviously, as I've mentioned before, track tires do count, on any track. That being said, I don't think they'll make up for 10+s I have estimated will separate the 997 GT2 from the Z06 on the NS.

The simple point that I'm trying to get across here, is that sport 911s (GT3/RS/GT2, etc.), even with their inherently poor polar moment of inertia layout handicap (i.e. rear engine), generally have better NS laptimes than the 'vaunted' Z06, when considering power/weight ratios. And, don't fool yourself, GM has been spending lots of time on the NS developing their products recently.

Furthermore, the GT3 has no less relevant creature comforts (997 version) than the Z06. Remember, even in its 'stripped out' format, it still has as many seats the corvette. The 997 GT3 even has sat-nav!

[RC45]

No, obviously, as I've mentioned before, track tires do count, on any track. That being said, I don't think they'll make up for 10+s I have estimated will separate the 997 GT2 from the Z06 on the NS.

On a 4 mile track tires can equal 10s.. on a 13mile track tyres not only equal 10s, they can surpace it.

This is "perfromance car 101" and shouldn't even need to be debated.


The simple point that I'm trying to get across here, is that sport 911s (GT3/RS/GT2, etc.), even with their inherently poor polar moment of inertia layout handicap (i.e. rear engine), generally have better NS laptimes than the 'vaunted' Z06, when considering power/weight ratios.


Ok - instead of just trying your level best to bash the 'vaunted' Z06 - as you put it - why not try base you opinions on facts.

The Corvette does not have the decades of Northloop testing the 911 has... and why is it that you refuse to accept the 996 GT3 and the C5 Z06 have similar lap times?

Older RS variants are very much "limited street intended use" cars.. in fact this is even true for the 997 RS variants.

There is no "stripped" Corvette - you keep making this apples to oranges comparison - The 911T of each generation is the Zo6 equivelent - it is the fully street option variant of the hi-po 911.

The GT2 is quite obviously as reflected by the price, the 911 will all the trimmings and noexpenses spared.


You also clearly want to compare across generation gaps.

The point that you seem so determined to ignore it that for each generation of the Corvette going back to 1955, it has been able to natch the performance of sports cars of the same class each time - this seems to be something people refuse to accept.

And when you take the 2001~2004 and 2006~ model years the Z06 of the the day has matched toe to toe equivalent street cars - period.


And, don't fool yourself, GM has been spending lots of time on the NS developing their products recently.

Furthermore, the GT3 has no less relevant creature comforts (997 version) than the Z06. Remember, even in its 'stripped out' format, it still has as many seats the corvette. The 997 GT3 even has sat-nav!
GM has only been spending the last 4 years or so in serious Northloop testing.

Until I make a close study of the 997GT3 RS's coming to Houston, I will reserve judgement, but previous RS's have been quite more track car than street car.. and I would also expect the 2007/8 model RS to be an improvement over the 2006 Z06 (released in 2005)... there are 2 tears in it.

Any way - I am not "defending" anything about the Z06 - I am just tired of people devoted their lives to flawed bashing.

[tforth]

On a 4 mile track tires can equal 10s.. on a 13mile track tyres not only equal 10s, they can surpace it.

This is "perfromance car 101" and shouldn't even need to be debated.


Wow, so that would put the CGT time at 7:28 - (10+s) = less than 7:18s, since it's only running Pilot Sport 2s, right?