Blu-Ray vs HD DVD

[ae86_16v]

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

Home theater buffs still undecided about which next-gen DVD they should buy should visit thedvdwars.com, where they use Amazon as a data source to determine which format is "winning" the dvd wars right now.

However, data by itself only gives part of the picture. But it's an important part. As of today, HD DVD is winning

in the number of DVDs that can ship today (125 vs. 107), number of DVDs that can be purchased today (154 vs. 152), the average salesrank of the top 10 products (854.2 vs. 2924.5), and the number of discs in the top 1000/10000. The only category HD DVD is losing in is price, with an average price of $24.60 vs. $21.80. You should know that there are some collector's packs like Mission Impossible for $64 that may be throwing off the price.

The amount of players/drives in existence is still uneven, with the PlayStation 3 being impossible to find and the HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 attaching quite well to the widely available Xbox 360. Once this disparity evens out, then we'll see who the true "winner" is. – Jason Chen

[dutchmasterflex]

Sucks if HD-DVD wins cause Blu Ray discs hold more data..

I still think its too early to decide.. and definitely way to early to buy either players.

[RC45]

BetaMax lost... Blu-Ghey will lose.. ;)

Sony is good at backing the loser :P

[spanky]

Yep I'll be waiting to see which one comes out on top as well. Have you seen how expensive those new blu ray players are!!! Damn :o

[exhausted mules]

isn't sony the biggest player in the digital disc format market?


if "blue-ghey" loses, i'll be very surprised.

[RC45]

isn't sony the biggest player in the digital disc format market?

selling Philips format discs ;) :P


if "blue-ghey" loses, i'll be very surprised.
cheap always wins out ;)

[RC45]

I read somewhere that the sony beta max was actually a superior format but died anyway.

This is true in many ways.

[twboy1999]

so far blue ray sucks compare to hddvd

blue ray still using mpeg2 decoding

it has the potential to be better cuz it holds more dadta,, but thats in the future

and more movie on hd dvd then blueray

[Stoopie]

Blue ray is a dutch invention, just like the red one, so I want iiiiiiiiin :popcorn:

[exhausted mules]

[quote="insane
I'd be very disappointed if Blu-Ray wouldn't become the new standard. I'd happily pay the extra price, however most people probably wouldn't.[/quote]

everything costs more at first, blu-ray just hit the market.


but based off the name alone i'd hd-dvd would be a bigger hit.

though in all honesty i haven't heard much of HD-DVD other than in reference and BLU-RAY has been everywhere. both in advertising and marketed producs.

Time will tell though i think whoever gets as many bluray players and discs out first will be the winner, no matter what the name or technology.

[twboy1999]

no
u can get a dvd player with divx capability for like 30cdn
LOL

[ae86_16v]

if "blue-ghey" loses, i'll be very surprised.
cheap always wins out ;)

That's it right there. . .

[TopGearNL]

no
u can get a dvd player with divx capability for like 30cdn
LOL

Yep true! :? :D

[Erez]

HD-DVD will win.. by far..

[STiInYourEye]

I haven't gotten to see a HD-DVD being played, but the movie I saw on Blu-Ray looked amazing. The sales guy at Tweeter seemed to think that Blu-Ray was going to win out in the end due to greater movie studio backing. It is definitely too early to adopt either one, though.

[nthfinity]

Don't care, I wont support either of them until the price is low :)

not reletively low

not low for what it does

real, and genuinly low.

[SFDMALEX]

isn't sony the biggest player in the digital disc format market?


if "blue-ghey" loses, i'll be very surprised.

no its Philips


Edit- RC beat me to it

[nthfinity]

I read somewhere that the sony beta max was actually a superior format but died anyway.

This is true in many ways.

Beta is still being used today by Television studios; it never died, it just went higher-end; and more expensive, and more limited

[Max Power]

the results won't be known for years....the movies that are out now for either format are shit....blu-ray will take it since its got the most support and they'll sell 2 million + ps3s....
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=747

[nthfinity]

the results won't be known for years....the movies that are out now for either format are shit....blu-ray will take it since its got the most support and they'll 2 million + ps3s....

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=747

vs 10 million HD DVD?

who knows

I stand by what I said

It wouldn't suprise me to see blu ray become the TV tech standard; yet unable to win in the mass consumer market.

the sad thing is, people actually shelled out 600$ for a PS3 because its the cheapest Blu Ray on the market.... yet, sony controls the price, and will maintain levels to keep the PS3 wihtin a margin, until outside-ish forces force sony to drop the retail on blu ray consumer players...

[Max Power]

initial launch for hd -dvd players was 100,000....blu-ray will kill that with in a month of ps3 release...toshiba is the only one relatively speaking making the players...it will not be able to keep up with Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sony for developement, marketing or lower costs later on...Most of studios are behind blu-ray although a lot of them are releasing for both...bd is got too much backing for Sony to fuck it up this time

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-14064/faqs/4/Index.html
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6394173.html

so far blue ray sucks compare to hddvd

blue ray still using mpeg2 decoding

it has the potential to be better cuz it holds more dadta,, but thats in the future

and more movie on hd dvd then blueray

BD vs HD DVD
BD max bitrate: 54 Mbit/s
HD DVD max bitrate: 36.55 Mbit/s
And they use the same codecs...

Initial versions of Sony's Blu-ray Disc-authoring software only included support for MPEG-2 video, so the initial Blu-ray Discs were forced to use MPEG-2 rather than the newer codecs, VC-1 and H.264. An upgrade was subsequently released supporting the newer compression methods so the second wave of Blu-ray Disc titles were able to make use of this. The choice of codecs affects disc cost (due to related licensing/royalty payments) as well as program capacity. The two more advanced video codecs can typically achieve twice the video runtime of MPEG-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

[ae86_16v]

Not really HD-DVD vs Blueray, but DVD vs HD -

http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html

Move your cursor over the image to see the difference.

[Max Power]

link doesn't work

[twboy1999]

yeah
hd-dvd from that link
seems alot more clear

[ae86_16v]

Nothing like a little false hope to brighten your Saturday, right? Of course, we hope the current stalemate in the Blu-ray / HD DVD war actually yields a combo player, but after the on-again / off-again (and again) love affair with the idea, we're not holding our collective breath.

Nevertheless, it seems that the current state actually doesn't have one format trouncing the other as many believed would happen after a few months unfolded. Essentially, consumers are "generally indifferent" to the two, and considering there's just seven more HD DVD titles currently available than BD titles, it doesn't look like one or the other will win on sheer studio popularity. While we've seen the Blu-ray-equipped PS3 outsell Microsoft's HD DVD drive 5 to 1, there isn't much substance in such a statistic, but apparently Taiwan-based manufacturers are rethinking their previous denials of unleashing a player that handles both discs.

DigiTimes has it that Samsung is "planning to offer dual-format recorders that can record and play back BD and HD DVD movies," while Hitachi (a devout member of the BDA), is also "considering production of dual-format devices." They also went so far as to point out the obvious when noting that a "dual-format device would be more expensive than a single-format unit" -- but hey, it's likely cheaper than buying one of each, eh?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/16/blu-ray-hd-dvd-stalemate-boosting-interest-in-combo-player/

[ae86_16v]

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/lg-officially-announces-dual-blurayhd-dvd-player-160688.php

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=11532770&src=rss/technologyNews

LG officially announced it will develop a dual-format Blu-ray and HD DVD player, and analysts are saying that the company plans to launch the much-rumored device this fall. John Taylor, a US spokesman for LG, said

LG is a supporter of Blu-ray and is now considering a dual format player for later this year.

Last week, LG became the second member of the Blu-ray club that said it would also support HD DVD. The first was HP, which should be credited for having the presence of mind to be the first to decide to straddle the fence in this absurd replay of the VHS/Betamax wars.

[RC45]

BetaMax lost... Blu-Ghey will lose.. ;)

Sony is good at backing the loser :P

Wow - talk about eating my own words here .. ;) :P

I guess Blu-Ghey is the winner for me.. ;) hehe

[TopGearNL]

BetaMax lost... Blu-Ghey will lose.. ;)

Sony is good at backing the loser :P

Wow - talk about eating my own words here .. ;) :P

I guess Blu-Ghey is the winner for me.. ;) hehe

LOL!

Just had to be from you that RC, just had to be :wink: :lol:

[Jabba]

Its different this time around and I bet they will both do just fine, I guess the real winner will be the first to offer a cheap mutil format machine.

I remember the "war" between dvd-r and dvd +r I think they are both still around right ?

[TopGearNL]

I remember the "war" between dvd-r and dvd +r I think they are both still around right ?

Very true!

But what about Vcr Vs Betamax :lol:

[ae86_16v]

Its different this time around and I bet they will both do just fine, I guess the real winner will be the first to offer a cheap mutil format machine.

I remember the "war" between dvd-r and dvd +r I think they are both still around right ?

I was talking to a electronics buddy of mine, and he concur with you, that he would not be surprise to see both format still be around 5 years from now.

LG and Samsung already have committed to making Dual Format drives/players. But how expensive will it be?

Well in terms of cheap machine it looks like HD has the lead on that right now. But we will see when Sony & Company gets a handle on production problems with the blue laser.

I am waiting for a Chinese Branded Blu-Ray player for $50 American :D . (Just kidding, I will probably end up buying a PS3 in a few months.)

[SFDMALEX]

Man I might be young, but I still remeber betamax, video cd (vynil video, quality was amazing), and tons of the other formats...


Its not that bad these days.

[Max Power]

Its different this time around and I bet they will both do just fine, I guess the real winner will be the first to offer a cheap mutil format machine.

don't count on it

http://digital50.com/news/items/BW/2001/07/14/20070107005058/strategy-analytics-at-ces-lg-throws-down-the-gauntlet-with-super-multi-blue-player.html

saw this on another forum

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill (blu-ray) - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the (hd-dvd) red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

I know what you're thinking:

Why didn't I take the BLUE pill.

[ae86_16v]

^ Right, much like the Blu-Ray Java Script problem on some disc and some players no being able to support it. I am sure that won't be a problem when the generation 2 player comes out :roll: .

Something that has to do w/ BD-J: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/409

And again, you are pointing out just because Sony say we will have 6 Million PS3s by March, that automatically means that Blu-Ray will win and that will be the de facto DVD player.

Show me how that is true again? How many people bought a PS2 because it played DVDs? How amny people bought a PS1 because it played CDs? How many people use it as their only entertainment system?

I still think the standard that will achieve majority will be the one that will introduce at a price point where middle class be able to afford it as a luxury item. Probably around the $200-$300 mark. Just as it happened with DVDs before.

All these companies are labeling their systems as an "All in One". Just like the PS3 is labeled as a "All in One" entertainment system. Has any of that worked? Has Window's Media PC worked? Has OS X's Frontrow worked? Did the Playstation 2 worked in that regard?

The answer is no, not yet. There hasn't been any system yet, that will satisfy the demand for everything. And I doubt the PS3 will fill that niche either. But again we will see.

Personally, I don't really care which one wins. I would prefer Blu-Ray because it offers more storage, but in the end, the determinating factor will be price. I just want one of them to be cheap, around $200 - $300. We will probably hit that price point next year.

[666fast]

Its different this time around and I bet they will both do just fine, I guess the real winner will be the first to offer a cheap mutil format machine.

don't count on it

http://digital50.com/news/items/BW/2001/07/14/20070107005058/strategy-analytics-at-ces-lg-throws-down-the-gauntlet-with-super-multi-blue-player.html

saw this on another forum

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill (blu-ray) - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the (hd-dvd) red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

I know what you're thinking:

Why didn't I take the BLUE pill.


That kind of sucks. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but the menu system on HD DVD is actually pretty slick.

[RC45]

I think the number of folks who use the "fancy features" will be few and far between..

You rent a movie, put it in the drive - make popcorn, open a soad and hit play.

Rinse and repeat for the next movie.

All we want is kick ass picture and awesome sound.

[666fast]

I think the number of folks who use the "fancy features" will be few and far between..

You rent a movie, put it in the drive - make popcorn, open a soad and hit play.

Rinse and repeat for the next movie.

All we want is kick ass picture and awesome sound.

Yea, well, screw the folks! I always watch all the extra stuff and play with the features. One of the coolest is InfiniFilm.

[RC45]

Yeah - we wathc the features, but only every now and again, and really - taking an hour movie and turnign it into a 4 hour review ordeal kinda removes what little fun is left :P ;)

[ae86_16v]

I think the number of folks who use the "fancy features" will be few and far between..

You rent a movie, put it in the drive - make popcorn, open a soad and hit play.

Rinse and repeat for the next movie.

All we want is kick ass picture and awesome sound.

Yea, well, screw the folks! I always watch all the extra stuff and play with the features. One of the coolest is InfiniFilm.

Yeah that depends on the person too. I never watch the specials. . . but my brother will watch the specials and the movie over and over again. Talk about getting your money's worth ;) .

[exhausted mules]

I think the number of folks who use the "fancy features" will be few and far between..

You rent a movie, put it in the drive - make popcorn, open a soad and hit play.

Rinse and repeat for the next movie.

All we want is kick ass picture and awesome sound.


shows how much you know the general consumer market.

[RC45]

I think the number of folks who use the "fancy features" will be few and far between..

You rent a movie, put it in the drive - make popcorn, open a soda and hit play.

Rinse and repeat for the next movie.

All we want is kick ass picture and awesome sound.


shows how much you know the general consumer market.

OK - wise me up.

How many people do you personally know that watch every feature on every DVD they rent?

Lets hear it...

[Max Power]

who rents... :o

its dl/burn or maybe buy....no one is buying dvds since they know they'll be obsolete whenever this HD shit is over...

and I've watched all the sw bonus shit...bonus features are big...at least the SW documentary 8)

[RC45]

who rents... :o

its dl/burn or maybe buy....no one is buying dvds since they know they'll be obsolete whenever this HD shit is over...

and I've watched all the sw bonus shit...bonus features are big...at least the SW documentary 8)

So you are watching on the PC then, and using the "DVD Rom" features.

I am done with the gadget shit... video toaster is all we need ;)

Rent - watch - return. :P

[Max Power]

what do u mean by gadget shit? :?

[RC45]

what do u mean by gadget shit? :?

COnfigure this, upgrade that, download the one, unpack the other, re-image the next etc etc etc

I am tired of that - been doing it for 15 years and its a pain in the arse now.

I just wanna plug n play man ;)

[Max Power]

just get your kid to do it...if u have kids :P :wink:

[ae86_16v]

Blu-Ray declares Victory! Haha:


http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/blu-ray-disc-association-declares-victory-over-hd-dvd/

he Blu-ray Disc Association has wasted no time, issuing a statement that it is victorious as the premiere high definition format of choice. With 25 different companies having released Blu-ray related products, over 170 movie and music titles announced so far and of course, more than one million PlayStation 3s shipped to the U.S. Andy Parsons, chair of the U.S. Promotions committee is comfortable citing Blu-ray's industry support as a reason customers have voted with their wallets and will continue to do so.

In 2007 the BDA looks forward to second generation PC and and standalone Blu-ray drives, like the BD-P1200, the Sony Vaio XL3 and a strong lineup of movie releases as why its market share will continue to increase this year, all but eliminating any competition by 2010. Check out our live coverage of the BDA press conference going on right now for more propaganda/truth (depending on your viewpoint).

[exhausted mules]

OK - wise me up.

How many people do you personally know that watch every feature on every DVD they rent?

Lets hear it...


the majority of those buying these dvds do watch the features. i'm not talking about your supposed movie buffs that thinks he knows what's he's talking about but rather the one who goes out and buys the dvd for use multiple times in his hometheater.


i'm sure the ppl your thinking about are just out to rent/watch the movie once for a quick "fix" and off to the next thrill.


so to speak....

[Max Power]

Universal: No new HD DVD titles for 2007 announced

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/10/universal-no-new-hd-dvd-titles-for-2007-announced/

[RC45]

Ouch.. ;)

+1 BR - 1 HD

[PATo355]

what do u mean by gadget shit? :?

COnfigure this, upgrade that, download the one, unpack the other, re-image the next etc etc etc

I am tired of that - been doing it for 15 years and its a pain in the arse now.

I just wanna plug n play man ;)

I didnt understand that before , kept buying pc stuff to play 1 or 2 games a year ( i do not really like games but 1 or 2 keep me busy for a year ) , but everytime i install a new game i need more ram , more video card , more processor , last time the system shut down , had to replace the PSU , 100 dollars !!!! .

Im convinced now to buy an xbox360 , i pay 500 and can play for 5 years , no worries about buying more shit , i understand the superiority of the PS3 , but i cant buy original games , they are way to expensive in here since im a student , if i work ( next year ) winning 1500 dollars per month i could afford 3 titles per year , i wont mind then ...

This is a poor country , and we have Xbox360 for 600 dollars , wii for 500 and the PS3 for 1200 , its just stupid , even at US prices they are extremely expensive , a game retails for 100 !!! :S

[ae86_16v]

Universal: No new HD DVD titles for 2007 announced

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/10/universal-no-new-hd-dvd-titles-for-2007-announced/

They do go on to indicate that they will continue to release new HD DVD titles throughout the year.

[RC45]

a game retails for 100 !!! :S

buy used games - I do

[ae86_16v]

I didnt understand that before , kept buying pc stuff to play 1 or 2 games a year ( i do not really like games but 1 or 2 keep me busy for a year ) , but everytime i install a new game i need more ram , more video card , more processor , last time the system shut down , had to replace the PSU , 100 dollars !!!! .

Im convinced now to buy an xbox360 , i pay 500 and can play for 5 years , no worries about buying more shit , i understand the superiority of the PS3 , but i cant buy original games , they are way to expensive in here since im a student , if i work ( next year ) winning 1500 dollars per month i could afford 3 titles per year , i wont mind then ...

This is a poor country , and we have Xbox360 for 600 dollars , wii for 500 and the PS3 for 1200 , its just stupid , even at US prices they are extremely expensive , a game retails for 100 !!! :S

Wow, that are extremely expensive prices. Yeah, PS3 games here cost $60 new. But that will probably come back down to the usual $50 later this year as more titles are released.

[Max Power]

Universal: No new HD DVD titles for 2007 announced

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/10/universal-no-new-hd-dvd-titles-for-2007-announced/

They do go on to indicate that they will continue to release new HD DVD titles throughout the year.

they mean to say that the titles that have already been released will continue to be sold...but no new titles will be released...this coming from the sole exclusive supporter of hd dvd... :o 8)

[PATo355]

a game retails for 100 !!! :S

buy used games - I do

With this prices not many ppl buy games or consoles , so the market for used games is inexistent !

[ae86_16v]

Universal: No new HD DVD titles for 2007 announced

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/10/universal-no-new-hd-dvd-titles-for-2007-announced/

They do go on to indicate that they will continue to release new HD DVD titles throughout the year.

they mean to say that the titles that have already been released will continue to be sold...but no new titles will be released...this coming from the sole exclusive supporter of hd dvd... :o 8)

Read again:

But when we contacted Universal to find out if anything further is to come from the studio out of CES, they confirmed they will not be unveiling any new street dates or detailed title info at all for the duration of the show. The studio stressed that they continue to support HD DVD and are planning to announce new titles "throughout 2007."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Universal/CES/CES:_No_New_HD_DVD_Announcements_from_Universal/429

Among the hits due in in 2007 are: 'The 40 Year-Old Virgin,' 'American Pie,' Bruce Almighty,' the 2003 remake of 'Dawn of the Dead,' 'Pride & Prejudice,' the original 'The Bourne Identity' and 'Inside Man.'

[Max Power]

my mistake...i was suppose to write...they have no new major titles announcements for 2007

[ae86_16v]

my mistake...i was suppose to write...they have no new major titles announcements for 2007

Well, I think Bourne Identity/Supremacy are big. But you are right. It seem like Universal might be getting a bit cold feet. Many are thinking they might not be "exclusive" anymore to HD-DVD only.

There was suppose to be a close door session at CES with all the big guns. Don't know what happened there, but topic of discussion was trying to get everyone together to decide on a "winner".

[Max Power]

no way MS is gonna fold... :roll:

[ae86_16v]

no way MS is gonna fold... :roll:

No one is saying they are folding. I am just saying that Universal might be thinking of not be exclusive to HD-DVD anymore.

In regards to MS, I point again to my earlier arguement that there has been plenty of gaming console that has have proprietary plateforms and still turn out great.

This arguement goes for both the PS3 and Xbox 360.

[ae86_16v]

HD DVD opens up early lead with standalone players, consoles different story

1/15/2007 9:38:25 PM, by Jacqui Cheng

Is there an early winner in the next-gen format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray? New data from Adams Media Research says that about 695,000 consumers in the US own either a Blu-ray or HD DVD player. Upon first glance, it appears as if the players are selling relatively well and that Blu-ray is winning the format war. Making sense of the data, however, is difficult.

President and Senior Analyst Tom Adams spoke with Ars Technica concerning his firm's findings, which were first published in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. According to Adams Media Research, roughly 425,000 of the 695,000 next-gen players sold recently are Blu-ray players—about 61 percent of units in the wild. Comparatively, HD DVD accounts for 270,000 units, or roughly 39 percent. Presented this way, Blu-ray looks to have a significant lead.

Yet only 25,000 of those Blu-ray players were purchased as standalone units (that is, dedicated Blu-ray players), with the other 400,000 coming in the form of the Sony PS3. The big question here is whether or not PS3 purchases are signs of consumer interest in Blu-ray, per se. Compare this situation to HD DVD: 120,000 units were purchased as standalone players, with another 150,000 units coming in the form of HD DVD upgrade kits on Xbox 360s. (The Xbox 360 does not come with HD DVD, but a $200 HD DVD addon appeared on the market shortly before the 2006 holiday season.)

All told, a hair over 79 percent of all next-gen DVD players are tied to gaming consoles in some way or another. That means that so far, only 21 percent of next-gen players sold were bought by consumers as standalone units. Further, sales of HD DVD standalone units outpaced Blu-ray units by nearly 5 times as many units, comprising almost 83 percent of standalone purchases versus Blu-ray's 17 percent of the same. Presented this way, HD DVD appears to have more momentum than Blu-ray.

In either case, standalone sales are still not stellar, although Adams told Ars that low standalone numbers did not necessarily mean that there was weak demand for the players. "[HD DVD and Blu-ray] standalone (non-game) lagged last year mainly because of supply issues, not demand," he told Ars. "Components, especially the new blue-laser diodes, were in short supply, and Sony in particular diverted as much as it could get to the PS3," Adams said.

"Game machines are typically adopted at much faster rates than consumer electronics products—tens of millions of homes in 3-4 years versus millions," Adams continued. "Yes, there is some hesitation [to buy standalone units] because of the format war, but the target market of early adopters typically buys most new technologies soon upon availability, even if there's the chance they'll be obsoleted eventually."

So who is really winning the next-gen format war? Sales in 2007 are likely to solidify numbers for both formats, although HD DVD looks to be getting off on a better foot for now judging by standalone player sales. On the flipside, market research firm Forrester recently said that they believe that Blu-ray will be the winner in the long run due to the greater volume of available content in Blu-ray format. There has also been a question of whether hybrid players would put the war to rest or just offer a convenient alternative for indecisive customers while the format war rages on.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8625.html

[black_magician]

the only reason to buy blu-Ray wsa the extra capacity on a BR disk. HD-DVD just released a 51GB DVD to beat Blu-Ray's 50GB. so the only reason to buy blu-ray is gone. it's too expensive, and doesn't even hold 51GB. F**k Sony, buy HD-DVD.

[HeilSvenska]

Hmmmm. You see, in a way, both fail to give "normal" customers compelling reason to by them. I know gamimg will greatly benefit from this, but who else really needs a 50GB disk?

[David Hasselhoff]

I am about to launch HD-DHD, the High Def David Hasselhof Disk - we have designed to be almost as full of itself as I am - the first movies will be released in Germany (of course - for my Uber-Fans) and will hold approx 515 TB of data per disk.

We have been able to get almost 1/3 of my ego onto a 4 disc set.

[RC45]

the only reason to buy blu-Ray wsa the extra capacity on a BR disk. HD-DVD just released a 51GB DVD to beat Blu-Ray's 50GB. so the only reason to buy blu-ray is gone. it's too expensive, and doesn't even hold 51GB. F**k Sony, buy HD-DVD.

No HD movies play 1080p yet, so all that data space goes to waste.. and the XBox360 doesn't use the HD-DVD as a games delivery system - and M$ say it never wiil ;)

[Max Power]

the only reason to buy blu-Ray wsa the extra capacity on a BR disk. HD-DVD just released a 51GB DVD to beat Blu-Ray's 50GB. so the only reason to buy blu-ray is gone. it's too expensive, and doesn't even hold 51GB. F**k Sony, buy HD-DVD.
1. HD Dvd fanboy, know the facts

2. It's 51GB (17 per layer) and apparently a boost to 1.5x for the drive speed. So basically, they are trying to duplicate BD specs.

3. It's a technology PROPOSAL that would need to be put before the DVD Forum (earliest for ratification Q4 2007).

4. A drive speed increase would mean most (all?) current players would be incompatible.

5. it would be nearly impossible for the B/V diodes in the current HD DVD players to read a 17GB and a 15GB layer with the same NA, they would need to make a whole new type of diode to cope with the new disc structure. This is the same reason why the TDK BD200 could never be used in current players as it uses 33.3GB per layer, giving a different track pitch to the normal 25GB per layer. The BD100 from Panasonic has been sampled for mass production, but only for BR-R/RE use and it is a quad layer disc, using the normal 25GB/layer structure. We will never see this used for movies, that is if it exists.

[RC45]

Number 1 being that there is a game console that can natively use the disc format.

So now there is no techinical reason to not have 1080p graphics ability ;)

[Max Power]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8192/dsc01125xi7.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01125xi7.jpg)
4weeks running...

[ae86_16v]

Sony says no to porn on Blu-ray Disc
Dan Nystedt and Martyn Williams

January 19, 2007 (IDG News Service) Sony Corp. said it will not work with the adult film industry to help put its movies on its Blu-ray Disc format, although the company will not try to stop it completely.

The company will not allow its disc-replicating subsidiary, Sony DADC Global, to handle adult film titles, it said this week. In markets where Sony operates around the world, it won't duplicate any movies that are above a certain rating or that have not been certified by a local motion picture association.

Sony wouldn't disclose exactly where it draws the line, but the rule means that adult movie makers will have to find someone else to reproduce their films in bulk. While other companies offer such services, the adult industry feels it is being cut out of the Blu-ray camp altogether.

The choice of which high-definition disc format to use was "kind of made for us, so everything we are replicating right now is in the HD-DVD format," said Robby D, a director at popular adult film maker Digital Playground Inc. "As far as I understand, Sony has said to the replicators that if you replicate adult, you'll lose your license."

Sony's decision to stay away from pornography could have wide implications for Blu-ray Disc. Not only could some companies backing Sony's format miss out on a lucrative market, but analysts say it could eventually mean that Blu-ray loses out to HD-DVD in the battle to become the next-generation DVD format.

Many believe that Sony's Betamax video tape format, while technologically superior to VHS, died because the adult movie industry was barred from using Betamax, noted Jake Richter, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon, Calif. "Is Sony doomed to repeat one of the mistakes of the past? It seems like that may be the case," he wrote in a report.

Several adult film companies said the issue is not just about gaining access to the "stampers" that reproduce their movies in bulk, but about their inability to get help with technical issues from the companies backing Blu-ray Disc.

"Nobody comes out and says, 'No, we won't work with adult.' But Blu-ray just offers no help," said Jackie Ramos, vice president of DVD production at Wicked Pictures, another popular adult movie company.

The Blu-ray Disc Association, which oversees the licensing of the technology, says it has not banned anyone from using the format. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with the best possible high definition home entertainment experience," the group said in a statement.

One major adult film company, Vivid Video, plans to release a sequel to the classic Debbie Does Dallas on both Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD this spring, its first high-definition video offering. A spokesman for the company, Shylar Cobi, declined to comment on how Vivid would gain access to stampers but said he does not expect it to be a problem.

Still, several other adult film companies interviewed said the industry as a whole plans to use HD-DVD because of the problems of working with Blu-ray Disc. Wicked Pictures chose HD-DVD for the first-ever high-definition adult film released this month at the AVN Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas. Several other companies plan to release high-definition movies this year, including Digital Playground, which is releasing its first HD-DVD title this week.

"Sony is really protective of proprietary information and proprietary products, especially when it comes to the adult market. Sony is always a little more standoffish and hands-away from it," said Jay Grdina, president of adult entertainment company ClubJenna Inc.

:(

Another reason to get HD-DVD? :lol:

[RC45]

Blu-Ray just lost the fight.

[Pimp Racer]

Blu-Ray just lost the fight.

Sadly I have to agree man. Shit Blu Ray is just gonna suck now since there is no...."special" movies for "bigger" people. I just wanna know what the fucking hell is Sony thinking? They must have some balls thinking they can get Blu Ray to be successful without any of the adult industry.

[TNT]

i think that blu-ray wasn't every really going to get off the ground and now it seems they have put the nails in the coffin.

[Max Power]

Blu-ray just doesn't want to display the rinkled worn out rugs and their hairy beer belly ho partners in HD so that the consumer doesn't throw up at their $5k 1080p Plasma and have to replace it under the vomit inducing porno warranty clause
...or maybe this IS the end :o :P

i think that blu-ray wasn't every really going to get off the ground and now it seems they have put the nails in the coffin.

i hope that you are kidding, otherwise :wanker:

[McLaren4eVa]

I am about to launch HD-DHD, the High Def David Hasselhof Disk - we have designed to be almost as full of itself as I am - the first movies will be released in Germany (of course - for my Uber-Fans) and will hold approx 515 TB of data per disk.

We have been able to get almost 1/3 of my ego onto a 4 disc set.

I'd like to see the day. Bloody germans

[Max Power]

Producers are taking steps to hide the imperfections. Some shots are lit differently, while some actors simply are not shot at certain angles, or are getting cosmetic surgery, or seeking expert grooming.

“The biggest problem is razor burn,” said Stormy Daniels, an actress, writer and director.

Ms. Daniels is also a skeptic. “I’m not 100 percent sure why anyone would want to see their porn in HD,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/business/media/22porn.html?_r=3&ref=business&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[ae86_16v]

Ms. Daniels is also a skeptic. “I’m not 100 percent sure why anyone would want to see their porn in HD,” she said.

Clearly she doesn't know what she is talking about. Haha. . .

"I don't know why people would need cars that go 200mph." Would be her next words.

Hahaha. . .

[5vz-fe]

[Nevermind] I read the ad wrong...thought the LG player is writing both HD and Blu Ray

http://www.logiccomputerhouse.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=12294

[ae86_16v]

Despite what Blu-ray would have you believe the next generation home movie format war is far from over, in fact it is just getting started. Four months ago we laid out a list of tasks that each side would have to do to win. Blu-ray has arguably achieved 6 out of 8 of the tasks, while HD DVD has achieved 6 out of 9.

What this means is that we still have a tie with no end in sight. Blu-ray's biggest blunder is still the lack of interactive content on their discs, the studios blame the authoring tools, Warner is rumored to be delaying certain titles on Blu-ray that are already available on HD DVD till the authoring tools are "mature". HD DVD's biggest challenge is still lack of content support and player support.

The big wash are the consoles, while HD DVD sold an impressive number of Xbox360 add-on drives, Sony sold 4 times as many potential Blu-ray players. Whether you believe PS3 owners will buy Blu-ray movies or not, recently Blu-ray started to out sell HD DVD according to every indicator we have. But does this really matter? How many more movies would Blu-ray have to sell than HD DVD to win the war?

A contact close to HD DVD tells us that studios selling both formats are turning a profit on both and as long as they continue to turn a profit they will continue to support both sides. This makes us wonder what Universal, Fox and Disney are thinking. Why would they choose to only support one side when they are loosing money by leaving out the other side?

We have tried to ask them, they haven't responded. If studios can make money on both sides and they all start to support both sides this war could go on forever, in fact the only chance of a end is if Universal starts making Blu-ray movies or Fox and Disney start to make HD DVDs (but not both). Until then most consumers will stay on the sidelines worried about missing their favorite movies and we will continue to watch the debate rage on.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/29/the-current-state-of-the-format-war-no-end-in-sight/

[Max Power]

The War is Over. Blu-ray has won, and deep down we all know it

Blu-ray is stomping HD-DVD in sales and movies and STILL has all the CE and studio support advantage it has enjoyed since the beginning. It's over. The war is over. Blu-ray won and all we have to do is wait for HD-DVD to CONTINUE to die. And deep down we all know it.

Blu-ray is winning in absolutely everything and has no signs of slowing down. And it is winning with everything that counts. Capacity, bandwidth, number of movies, number of studios, numbers of players to choose from, copy protection with new methods yet to be implemented while HD-DVD is stuck, disc reliability with owners of both formats reporting Blu-ray is much more reliable, Blu-ray discs are on average CHEAPER because of no combos, and now Blu-ray has a very clear lead in SALES. I mean what else left is there? We've been hearing for months how "studios will just follow the money" but notice you don't hear that coming from the other side anymore.

What's funny if you look back, the HD-DVD camp has been wrong about just about everything. The arguments have turned to pornography and Shinco players with no price or release dates. It's amazing how BD proved all these arguments wrong.

Let me summarize:

Remember BD-50's were just science fiction and would never come out? BD-50's were "inherently flawed." Then they did come out.

Then BD-50's were too expensive and wouldn't be common. They were inherently flawed to always be expensive and rare and "not needed." Why? Because the side arguing didn't have the capacity. Then they became more common.

Then MPEG-2 and BD-25 could not reproduce great quality--it was inherently flawed. Then MI:III came out.

Then BD players were all "twice the price of HD-DVD" because they were "all" $1000. And none of these people ever insinuated that these prices would go down--this was an inherent flaw to BD. Then the Sammy dropped to $599 on Amazon and the PS3 was released.

Then the Xbox 360 add-on would "neutralize" the PS3. It did not.

Then MS would announce an HD-DVD drive "built in" to neutralize the PS3. Then they denied that this was ever in the plans.

Then Triple Layer discs (which many recall were announced LAST year) were going to "neutralize the BD capacity advantage." But they never saw the light of day, and are STILL vaporware.

Then Blu-ray's were "vulnerable" to scratches, much moreso than HD-DVD, and they were inherently flawed for rental companies. But then people on here began to realise that it is HD-DVD that is much more vulnerable to scratches and Blu-ray discs were MUCH more reliable. A poll on here found only 3.7% of Blu-ray owners had a problem playing a rental while 25% of HD-DVD owners did.

Then the PS3 was released and the "poor sales" proved it would have no effect on Blu-ray. Then it went on to outsell the 360 comparatively at it's launch and now Blu-ray is clearly ahead in sales.

Since at this time of the PS3 launch the HD-DVD fan still had sales arguments on their side, then the arguments were that "studios would follow the money" so it isn't an idiotic decision to support a format that has only 3 major studios releasing content on it, because it was "just a matter of time" before studios would "see the light." Never happened. Still only 3 major studios releasing content on a format that is still basically just Toshiba and an optional video game console add-on, with still only one exclusive studio who seems uninterested in fully supporting the format with "100" mystery titles to be release sometime this year, 90% of which will be on combo! THAT is HD-DVD. And oh, about those sales arguments, well Blu-ray is now outselling HD-DVD so obviously we don't hear the "follow the money" slogan anymore. Notice that? The hope is now in cheap porn and Chinese junk players--and oh, in case you forgot, these players don't have any announced prices or release dates, just like the movies.

After the PS3 arguments the goalposts were switched to CES. CES was going to be big for HD-DVD with new studios going neutral for them and new big name CE companies coming on board. They knew they needed some major CE support and at least one studio going neutral, and this hope was so great that there were literally posters PROMISING people that at least one Blu-ray studio would go neutral at CES. Didn't happen. And as far as CE all they got was some junk names like Shinco not one of them has ever owned, and a bunch of "mystery movies" with no release dates. And oh, don't forget that giant lump of coal from Universal.

---

These arguments all turned out to be wrong. But at least they were somewhat interesting because we were all waiting with baited breath to see how the PS3 would effect sales and what would happen at CES.

And now that it has turned out that things are not better for HD-DVD now but FAR FAR WORSE, with all the problems they had before but now they have to contend with a better selling Blu-ray who has more movies coming out every week in February than HD-DVD has for the entire month, and you have a situation where there is no real reason to get into arguments anymore on here regarding a "war" because there is no war--we should all admit that, deep down, we all know that Blu-ray has won. It has won with capacity, bandwidth, scratch resistance and reliability for our archives, studios, player choices, more MOVIES, and now clearly BETTER SALES. There is no war anymore. And deep down we all know it and should move on and just get Universal to go neutral so we can come together and focus on the MOVIES.

[ae86_16v]

"The Departed" will be the movie to watch. It will be a good guage to see what happens.

[ae86_16v]

Blu-ray surpasses HD DVD in disc sales for the first time

Posted Feb 23rd 2007 3:52PM by Richard Lawler

The Blu-ray and HD DVD battle has entered a new era, as preliminary Nielsen VideoScan stats show the BDA's baby sold more -- a ratio of 100 Blu-ray to every 98.71 HD DVD discs, sorry still no hard numbers here -- since their inception last year.

As we all know, HD DVD was first to market and had enjoyed a lead on Blu-ray ever since, but then things started to turn with the launch of the PlayStation 3. The studios supporting Blu-ray finally began releasing significant numbers of titles and haven't looked back.

Each team put its own spin on the numbers, with HD DVD-backing Universal pointing out that despite a 5:1 advantage in hardware due to the PS3, disc sales are still nearly even, while Blu-ray supporter 20th Century Fox sees the format war as being in its "final phase," and fence-straddling Warner merely noting that both formats are "selling well".

Still, with the exception of the LG combo playing BH100, none of the major players have shown any plans to change sides, so until they do, prepare for a prolonged stalemate before this war is truly over.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/23/blu-ray-surpasses-hd-dvd-in-disc-sales-for-the-first-time/

http://www.videostoremag.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10323

[Max Power]

so what it says is that after HD DVD coming out 6 month earlier...and then since nov (ps3) Blu Ray has surpassed HD DVD in sales 'since inception'...
Good news for HD DVD :wink: :P

[ae86_16v]

You know what is kinda BS is that no one is releasing any "real numbers". It is always this ratio and percentage shit. What I want to see are sales numbers and what not. You know.

Especially for Studios that have support both formats, compare one to one: "How well movie X is selling on Blu-Ray? How well movie X is selling on HD-DVD?"

[ae86_16v]

Getting Cheaper:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070226/ap_on_hi_te/sony_blu_ray_player

$600 Blu-Ray player from Sony.

And cheaper blue lasers too:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/02/26/cheaper-blue-lasers-on-the-way/

[Max Power]

...but without even the hint of an expected release date...

lol...
ps3 is good enough for now

[RC45]

I still like the superior image of BR over HD.... ;)

[Max Power]

Getting Cheaper:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070226/ap_on_hi_te/sony_blu_ray_player

$600 Blu-Ray player from Sony.

299-399 by end of 07? (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Forecasts/Hardware/Sony/Sony_Announces_New_$599_Blu-ray_Player_Predicts_Further_Price_Cuts_and_10x_Sal es_Growth_for_2007/493)

can't wait

[ae86_16v]

^ That's what I am waiting for. The $299 one, then we will get some chinese knock offs for $50 ;) .

[ae86_16v]

Blu-ray edges out HD DVD in February
By Mark Raby
Published Monday 12th March 2007 10:02 GMT



Columbus (OH) - For the second month in a row, Blu-ray Disc (BD) sales were about double that of HD DVD, according to recently released February sales data.

According to trade magazine Video Business, around 250,000 Blu-ray movies were sold last month. HD DVD sales, on the other hand, totaled 125,000.

During January, Blu-ray received a similar sales edge over HD DVD. Many attributed the advantage to the fact that BD has more studio support and a bigger library of movies, meaning that sales of individual titles were not necessarily greater than HD DVD. However, in the same article, Video Business reported on a format comparison for one movie. The Departed, which was released on both Blu-ray and HD DVD, sold about 20,000 and 13,000 for the two formats, respectively.

HD DVD backers like Universal and Toshiba claim this is just a fad for PS3 owners who really haven't claimed a devotion to the Blu-ray format. Universal also fired back by saying that the Blu-ray hardware/software tie ratio is low, considering the volume of PS3 units that have been sold.

At an HDTV conference last week, noted speaker Vito Mandato made the claim that the total number of hardware sales for both formats is about the same, after one weeds out all the PS3s that are not being used to play Blu-ray movies.


http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/03/12/bluray_sales_beat_hddvd_feb2007/print.html

[Max Power]

'Casino Royale' Blu-ray Breaks 100,000 Unit

"the nine month old Blu-ray format. Not only has Blu-ray hit the 100,000 unit mark faster than rival format HD DVD, it hits the milestone two months faster than standard-def DVD did back in 1998 (with 'Air Force One'), when DVD was eleven months old"



http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/Disc_Sales/Casino_Royale_Blu-ray_Breaks_100,000_Unit_Milestone/544

[ae86_16v]

^ Well, it was a good movie. :)

[ae86_16v]

Complete numbers:

Among the numbers revealed: as of March 18, VideoScan put the cumulative number of Blu-ray titles sold since the format's inception at 844,000 units, versus HD DVD at 708,600.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/564


Haha, interesting development:

Apparently, the spike occurs the same day that HD-DVD fanboys at AVSForum, the AV enthusiast site, had organized an mass buy of HD-DVD titles. For an immature format, even a few individuals can make a difference, if only on a day.


http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/format-war-soliders-syncd-hd+dvd-purchase-by-fanboys-spike-amazon-rank-blu+rayers-set-to-retaliate-253131.php

[Max Power]

^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit...


Blu-Ray Wins Q1
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom042207/index.php?startpage=2

http://www.tsurugi.co.uk/misc/hdmarketshare_4-15.jpg

[ae86_16v]

^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit...


Won't it be funny if Amazon was setting all of this up! :lol:

[ae86_16v]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/16/save-another-100-on-hd-dvd-this-fathers-day/

It seems that every week we hear about a price drop from either HD DVD or Blu-ray, and this week it's both. First Panasonic announced their DMP-BD10A for $600 and now Toshiba is announcing a $100 in-store instant rebate -- our favorite kind -- on any HD DVD player purchased between May 20th and June 16th. Assuming no other discounts, you can now get a stand-alone HD DVD player for that magic price of $299. This combined with the free movies promotion, removes any (price-related) excuses for not picking up an HD DVD player, and enjoying the Ultimate Matrix Collection on HD DVD.

Looks like HD-DVD will be the first to hit the magic number. Hmm, might be time to hop on board? I am still gonna get a PS3 later in the year though. :lol:

[dons5]

hope blue ray wins, after all Blu Ray and HD-DVD are pretty much the same just Blu ray can do everything better because it holds more info, its just that its more expesnive for the discs than hd-dvd, correct????

[ae86_16v]

I just saw at Costco (large US warehouse type retailer) are selling the HD-A2 for only $250 + you still get the 5 Free movies.

Hmm. . . mighty tempting. Matrix Trilogy is out also at CircuitCity for only $20 USD. Damn!

[RC45]

There is one marketing advantage HD-DVD is using that the Blu-Ray executives seem to have completely missed - is existing DVD's.

ALmost every DVD you rent these days includes at least 2 or 3 previews that BLAST the fact out there that it is also soon (if not already) available on HD-DVD - and that pretty soon all DVD movies will be "future proofed" by being released as a DVD/HD-DVD combo set.

This means that the clueless masses are being bombarded with HD-DVD propoganda everytime they rent a DVD. And the Blu-Ray marketing bafoons are asleep at the wheel...

It seems the only place I have seen any Blu-Ray commercials.... is on other Blu-Ray titles.. DOH... what stupid fucking idiots these marketing folks are. :roll:

[Jabba]

hope blue ray wins, after all Blu Ray and HD-DVD are pretty much the same just Blu ray can do everything better because it holds more info, its just that its more expesnive for the discs than hd-dvd, correct????

Its not as straight forward as that, as you also have to take into account the quality of the encoding, mostly mpeg-2 for blu ray and VC-1 for HD DVD. Most experts will tell you that the quality of the encoding for some of the blu ray titles is quite poor compared to how good it should be, I guess its been a bit rushed so far. I have about 20 titles on each format and I would say overall I prefer the menu systems on blu ray but the quality on HD-DVD does seem to be sharper on most titles (IMO).

[gigdy]

There is one marketing advantage HD-DVD is using that the Blu-Ray executives seem to have completely missed - is existing DVD's.

ALmost every DVD you rent these days includes at least 2 or 3 previews that BLAST the fact out there that it is also soon (if not already) available on HD-DVD - and that pretty soon all DVD movies will be "future proofed" by being released as a DVD/HD-DVD combo set.

This means that the clueless masses are being bombarded with HD-DVD propoganda everytime they rent a DVD. And the Blu-Ray marketing bafoons are asleep at the wheel...

It seems the only place I have seen any Blu-Ray commercials.... is on other Blu-Ray titles.. DOH... what stupid fucking idiots these marketing folks are. :roll:

They should secretly put little cryptic signs all over boston.

[Bizi Jones]

Its not as straight forward as that, as you also have to take into account the quality of the encoding, mostly mpeg-2 for blu ray and VC-1 for HD DVD. Most experts will tell you that the quality of the encoding for some of the blu ray titles is quite poor compared to how good it should be, I guess its been a bit rushed so far. I have about 20 titles on each format and I would say overall I prefer the menu systems on blu ray but the quality on HD-DVD does seem to be sharper on most titles (IMO).

blu-ray.com/movies/top.php

if u look at the details u'll c that most if not all new BD releases are either VC-1 and AVC...and the ones encoded with Mpeg2 (for instances Fifth Element) is either being re released (if u bought it already, free trade in) or the movie doesn't require a better codec since BD offers the larger capacity...so I think it is as straight forward as he said...BD-J once its out will pretty much make HDdud version obsolete...in closing, BD owns all

[ae86_16v]

Its not as straight forward as that, as you also have to take into account the quality of the encoding, mostly mpeg-2 for blu ray and VC-1 for HD DVD. Most experts will tell you that the quality of the encoding for some of the blu ray titles is quite poor compared to how good it should be, I guess its been a bit rushed so far. I have about 20 titles on each format and I would say overall I prefer the menu systems on blu ray but the quality on HD-DVD does seem to be sharper on most titles (IMO).

blu-ray.com/movies/top.php

if u look at the details u'll c that most if not all new BD releases are either VC-1 and AVC...and the ones encoded with Mpeg2 (for instances Fifth Element) is either being re released (if u bought it already, free trade in) or the movie doesn't require a better codec since BD offers the larger capacity...so I think it is as straight forward as he said...BD-J once its out will pretty much make HDdud version obsolete...in closing, BD owns all

Really? Free trade in? Umm, I find that kind of hard to believe.

Jabba, I would've thought that HD-DVD has better menus because of Java ability? No?

There is one marketing advantage HD-DVD is using that the Blu-Ray executives seem to have completely missed - is existing DVD's.

ALmost every DVD you rent these days includes at least 2 or 3 previews that BLAST the fact out there that it is also soon (if not already) available on HD-DVD - and that pretty soon all DVD movies will be "future proofed" by being released as a DVD/HD-DVD combo set.

This means that the clueless masses are being bombarded with HD-DVD propoganda everytime they rent a DVD. And the Blu-Ray marketing bafoons are asleep at the wheel...

It seems the only place I have seen any Blu-Ray commercials.... is on other Blu-Ray titles.. DOH... what stupid fucking idiots these marketing folks are. :roll:

Wow, good observation. Although Sony is making quite a push in terms of Retail space. Most of the Circuity City and Best Buys around here have a larger Blu-Ray presence than HD-DVD.

[Jabba]

and the ones encoded with Mpeg2 (for instances Fifth Element) is either being re released (if u bought it already, free trade in) or the movie doesn't require a better codec since BD offers the larger capacity...so I think it is as straight forward as he said...BD-J once its out will pretty much make HDdud version obsolete...in closing, BD owns all

I guess it could be argued that it should have been straight forward to begin with, however the reality was that AVP was blurry and T2 wasn't a whole lot better. This isnt like downloading windows updates where each time they improve the encoding quality and re-mastering process that they send you out a new version. I agree that blu-ray stacks up and ticks all the right boxes so long as the next generation of releases finally start to do it some justice. I just got "The Guardian" which as I understand it is BD-J and encoded with MPEG-4 AVC so I am looking forward to great things when I watch it later.

[Jabba]

, I would've thought that HD-DVD has better menus because of Java ability? No?
.

The ones I have seen so far have all been very basic and offer nothing over a regular DVD, I am sure however with time, they will of course improve though.

[ae86_16v]

and the ones encoded with Mpeg2 (for instances Fifth Element) is either being re released (if u bought it already, free trade in) or the movie doesn't require a better codec since BD offers the larger capacity...so I think it is as straight forward as he said...BD-J once its out will pretty much make HDdud version obsolete...in closing, BD owns all

I guess it could be argued that it should have been straight forward to begin with, however the reality was that AVP was blurry and T2 wasn't a whole lot better. This isnt like downloading windows updates where each time they improve the encoding quality and re-mastering process that they send you out a new version. I agree that blu-ray stacks up and ticks all the right boxes so long as the next generation of releases finally start to do it some justice. I just got "The Guardian" which as I understand it is BD-J and encoded with MPEG-4 AVC so I am looking forward to great things when I watch it later.

^ Not a bad movie either. :lol:

Don't ask me how I know. :oops:

[Bizi Jones]

however the reality was that AVP was blurry and T2 wasn't a whole lot better.

I am not sure if u r using PowerDVD to play them, but if u r and are seeing these problems, I think u need to make sure that you disable the h.264 support it has, and continue to use CoreAVC, for h.264.

To disabe PowerDVD's useless h.264/AVC codec go to Start->Run and put:

regsvr32 /u "[folder]\VideoFilter\CL264dec.ax"

Where [folder] is the PowerDVD folder for example:

regsvr32 /u "C:\Program Files\CyberLink\PowerDVD\VideoFilter\CL264dec.ax"

(go to the 1st guide on hdbits)

...otherwise I haven't read about such issues for those titles...

[Jabba]

Nope, Santa kindly bought me a Samsung BDP1000 stand alone player for xmas and at the end of the day it makes no difference to me what its "supposed" to be like, if it looks blurry to me then thats the only opinion I am interested in at the end of the day. Having said that "Fantastic Four" looks razor sharp and one of the better blu ray titles that I have seen. Hopefully they will add AVP onto their re-encode/re-release list and make a better job of it this time (IMO)


http://www.jabbasworld.net/userfiles/jabba/DSC05134.JPG

[Bizi Jones]

that's disappointing to hear about the titles....

however, perhaps Santa should have waited a bit more before springing for a 1st gen player at least till the fall

Blu-ray owners waiting for more Java features and highly interactive releases like the recently announced Matrix compilation on HD DVD could be due for a hardware upgrade this winter. VideoBusiness is reporting that the BDA has mandated all hardware launched after October 31 must support BD-J enabled picture-in-picture video playback, 256MB of persistent memory, and (for players with an internet connection) 1GB of memory for downloads. Currently these features aren't required and picture-in-picture support isn't in the PlayStation 3 or Sony's lower priced BDP-S300 that will debut this summer, ahead of the deadline. BD-J support has been sketchy so far, with many players needing upgrades to run titles like The Descent, which was able to do PiP by including two different versions of the movie on one 50GB disc.

[ae86_16v]

that's disappointing to hear about the titles....

however, perhaps Santa should have waited a bit more before springing for a 1st gen player at least till the fall


So wait, it is Jabba's or any other consumer's for that matter, fault because Sony & Co. couldn't get their act together on Blu-Ray? :roll:

Keep in mind, this wasn't a tech issue in terms of glitches or bugs, this is the actual picture quality and encoding used. If it was glitches or bugs, I am more willing to understand because as you say, 1st generation technology. But PQ has no excuse.

That's an excellent way to defend a platform.

[Bizi Jones]

pffff...as with any new CE product there are bound to be start up bugs/issues and 1st gen consumers buying into the format should expect that...and in this case the product has been out for ~ a year now, the consumer should be well aware of what he/she is purchasing...

[ae86_16v]

^ Sorry, I edit my response above you.

[Bizi Jones]

well the reviews of the BD-P1200 has been nothing but good...PQ has drastically improved, so my point is that (from what I've read and seen) there was no issues with the mentioned movies (avp, t2), and yes there are some releases which turned out shit...in some instances they are being remastered...and u can't start bashing a format based on one person's opinion, sorry Jabba...

[Jabba]

and u can't start bashing a format based on one person's opinion, sorry Jabba...


OK, I will bash the blu ray version of T2 on two peoples opinions, a few facts and some hard evidence :




"I went and dug out my old "Extreme DVD" edition of the T2 DVD and looked through the booklet, which talks a lot about the restoration process they did a few years ago. In the creation of the new HD master, they squeezed the AR of the film down from 2.35:1 to 1.78:1 (16x9) in order to take advantage of the full standard aspect ratio frame, rather than having to letterbox the film, and lose lines of resolution (they scanned it at an resolution of 1920x1080). Secondly, they did DRS, as opposed to DVNR, which is notorious for fucking films up.

Now, keep this in mind--they used DRS, and did a meticulous job of it.

Now look at the screenshot, the one with the terminator in flames. Look at the bottom right, on the T's shoulder. There's a big ass booger looking thing on the screenshot.

You know what this tells me? They used an older (circa 1997) transfer, rather than the newer transfer they created '00-01. You know what this tells me? They're gonna double dip this thing down the road, and release a newer version of the disc, utilizing the newer transfer.

This is crap.

Edit:

Noticed two more errors on that same frame. Look at the right side (our right) of his forehead, above his "eyebrow". There's a dark greenish black spot above the right edge of the eyebrow, and up and to the left is a short, vertical black line."

http://www.jabbasworld.net/userfiles/jabba/screen1uk002.jpg


Yes I admit I am being fussy, but thats the trouble with viewing these things on a 160" screen, you see can easily see the good encodes from the bad ones, where as I am sure they all look great on a computer monitor or something, like I said, I am looking forward to a re-release of T2 sooner rather than later :wink:

[Bizi Jones]

yup, i'm sure there will be a Supreme Super Gold Ultimate Pack Fan Collection Addition that will address those issues down the road

[dutchmasterflex]

I had always thought that unless these old movies were shot with high definition digital cameras, it would be pointless to get them on HD-DVD/BluRay. There is only so much remastering you can do to the original..If you are trying to create more pixels you will just get a "blurry" image, especially when shown on a big screen.

[Bizi Jones]

Well the great thing about film is that it's essentially always been the same material so the resolution of 35mm film thirty years ago is basically the same as 35mm film used today.

[Jabba]

If you are trying to create more pixels you will just get a "blurry" image, especially when shown on a big screen.

Remember though, film doesnt really have any pixels so its still going to be downscaled to the highest HD resolution, what they have got to do though is try and repair all those cracks and scratches often found on the old masters as well as transfer it across to the HD platform at the very highest possible standard..

[Jabba]

Well the great thing about film is that it's essentially always been the same material so the resolution of 35mm film thirty years ago is basically the same as 35mm film used today.

You beat me to it :wink:

[dutchmasterflex]

Yeah I'm aware film is different, but I thought they are still "blowing up" the image from the film negatives aren't they?

What film format(mm) are movies like T2 usually shot with?

[Jabba]

Yeh but think how big a commercial cinema screen is, and you still wont see any pixels on movies projected onto it, hence its still downscaled rather than "blown up" on transfers to HD.

If you put a 35mm camera picture in a flat bed scanner what resolution would you have to scan at for example to start seeing the "pixels" ?

[Bizi Jones]

what they do is scan the film

Philips eventually evolved the FDL-60 into the FDL 90 (1989)/ Quadra (1993). In 1996 Philips working with Kodak introduced the Spirit1 DataCine (SDC 2000), which was capable of scanning the film image at HDTV resolutions and approaching 2K (1920 Luminance and 960 Chrominace RGB) x 1556 RGB. With the data option the Spirit DataCine can be used as a motion picture film scanner outputting 2K DPX data files as 2048 x 1556 RGB. In 2000 Philips introduced the Shadow Telecine (STE) this is a low cost version of the Spirit, with no Kodak parts. The Spirit1 DataCine, Cintel's C-Reality and ITK's Millennium opened the door to the technology of digital intermediates wherein telecine coloring tools were not just for video outputs, but could now be used for high-resolution data that would later be recorded back out to film.[3]The Grass Valley Spirit 4k (2004) replaced the Spirit 1 Datacine and uses both 2K and 4k line array CCDs.

well above HD res...

[dutchmasterflex]

Yeh but think how big a commercial cinema screen is, and you still wont see any pixels on movies projected onto it, hence its still downscaled rather than "blown up" on transfers to HD.

If you put a 35mm camera picture in a flat bed scanner what resolution would you have to scan at for example to start seeing the "pixels" ?

When you sit in the front row at the theater the picture doesnt exactly look sharp... but definitely not grainy or noisy.

Not to sure at exactly what resolution I started getting noise when scanning 35mm film, but at 1920x1080 you definitely start to get some grain/noise. Although that might have been some dust on the negative.

Either way, it's definitely a lot of hard work that goes into remastering these old movies.

I was real surprised with the Blazing Saddles 720p rip...

[Jabba]

Not to sure at exactly what resolution I started getting noise when scanning 35mm film, but at 1920x1080 you definitely start to get some grain/noise. Although that might have been some dust on the negative.



Yep, grain and noise is another ball game from pixels, in fact I quite like grain on some movies, it gives them more "feel" but this is now going to get like the vinal vs CD debate :P

[Bizi Jones]

^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit...


Won't it be funny if Amazon was setting all of this up! :lol:

the date for their "Fight for Blu-ray is May 27th, buy an Extra Disc Day

so when both formats go belly up and are replaced by Holographic disc or equivalent, a lot of ppl are gonna be stuck with a boat load of obsolete media :P

[Bizi Jones]

OK, I will bash the blu ray version of T2 on two peoples opinions, a few facts and some hard evidence

have u tried the The THX Optimizer on the T2 disk

[Jabba]

OK, I will bash the blu ray version of T2 on two peoples opinions, a few facts and some hard evidence

have u tried the The THX Optimizer on the T2 disk

Of course, but that aint gonna make those defects vanish, as I said, the fantastic four on blu ray and most of my other stuff looks breath taking.

[ae86_16v]

Well the great thing about film is that it's essentially always been the same material so the resolution of 35mm film thirty years ago is basically the same as 35mm film used today.

You beat me to it :wink:

Correct, they can transfer it to whatever resolution they want. They could probably blow it up to 2560x1600 and it will still look crystal clear. There is no pixel equivalent of film.

^^lol, ppl at blu-ray boards are planning the same shit...


Won't it be funny if Amazon was setting all of this up! :lol:

the date for their "Fight for Blu-ray is May 27th, buy an Extra Disc Day

so when both formats go belly up and are replaced by Holographic disc or equivalent, a lot of ppl are gonna be stuck with a boat load of obsolete media :P

There was an editorial the other day about that. Saying that they should have got together and made one format because the longer this "war" drags on the less time these companies will get to reap the benefits. Within another 10 years or so, we will have pretty much moved onto another medium.

[ae86_16v]

There is one marketing advantage HD-DVD is using that the Blu-Ray executives seem to have completely missed - is existing DVD's.

ALmost every DVD you rent these days includes at least 2 or 3 previews that BLAST the fact out there that it is also soon (if not already) available on HD-DVD - and that pretty soon all DVD movies will be "future proofed" by being released as a DVD/HD-DVD combo set.

This means that the clueless masses are being bombarded with HD-DVD propoganda everytime they rent a DVD. And the Blu-Ray marketing bafoons are asleep at the wheel...

It seems the only place I have seen any Blu-Ray commercials.... is on other Blu-Ray titles.. DOH... what stupid fucking idiots these marketing folks are. :roll:

You know what I just realized. It might be more of a legal matter because HD-DVD is officially sponsored by the DVD Forum, so it might be that Blu-Ray can't use any linkage to DVD without the permission of the Forum. Maybe, I don't know.

[Bizi Jones]

PS3's 1.8 firmware update...

Been thinking a bit about what the 1.8 update means in regards to both 360 and HD-DVD wars. This update may have the biggest most lasting impact on everyone involved in the next gen "wars"..some of it's obvious but wanted to get it written down somewhere anyway. Long ... but here is why I think it's a game changer both above and below the surface...

360

One of the points being used against the PS3 is the game quantity (not quality) vs the 360. With this update they have struck a major blow against the 360...

Upscaling Ramifications

1. The PS2 libary is massive and still has more new games being released than any of the next gen consoles.

i) All of a sudden upgrading sooner to the PS3 just became *significantly* more attractive to existing PS2 users due to upscaling. GOWII upscaled - hell yes. Only on PS3.

ii) PS2 users upgrading to next gen have even less reasons to consider the 360. None really. It has seriously neutralized the only advantage/draw the 360 had over even the PS2 (that's TWO) never mind the PS3. Next gen graphics. The chances of those people now upgrading to the 360 and not the PS3 has gone to about < .1%. And that's before considering the DVD upscaling as well.
New console users deciding are in a slightly different but a remarkably similar place to existing PS2 users. The libary size advantage of the 360 over the PS3 has been seriously damaged with this update.

iii) Now that the graphics advantage/draw is gone the 360 looks even more like a xbox 1.5 with it's DVD technology. Less than 1.5 really to consumers. $500 bucks for what? Only PS3 is really next gen now - plus adding value for exisiting product library.

iv) 360 games are short in comparison to other consoles because they went with DVD for hi-def content. Therefore PS2 games are much better value since they will have now have "good enough" graphics to match the 360 plus much longer gameplay and....360 really hobbled themselves with DVD.

v) PS2 games are cheaper than next gen games as well..and

vi) Yes even the Wii, 360 and PS3 will be effected by point v)...but it's a transition to the PS3 - not the others. Over the medium to long run they lose..would even expect a spike in PS2 software sales as a harbringer of things to come.

viii) It's a wierd psychological barrier - but there are PS2 games I would now go and buy that I wouldn't have previously. Why? Because they now qualify as being next gen enough. IOW they now meet my expectation of what's "allowed" on the next gen PS3 - I don't think I will be alone in thinking that way. The BC was important in our initial decision but the upscaling brings a huge library forward now.

[RC45]

Yeah I'm aware film is different, but I thought they are still "blowing up" the image from the film negatives aren't they?

What film format(mm) are movies like T2 usually shot with?

Think of it this way - the same reel of film can be used for a small 10ft screen, a large movei 60ft screen or a 180ft drive in theatre screen.

Its just the projector lense that changes, yet the picture always look awesome.

Thats the perfection of emulsion film - which is why on one hand I am very sad that film stills are dead and never again will "regular folks" get to experience good 35mm film shooting, developing and enjoyment.

Doesn't matter what anyone says - a digital camera will never capture the true essence of negative/emulsion processing.

[dutchmasterflex]

Yeah I'm aware film is different, but I thought they are still "blowing up" the image from the film negatives aren't they?

What film format(mm) are movies like T2 usually shot with?

Think of it this way - the same reel of film can be used for a small 10ft screen, a large movei 60ft screen or a 180ft drive in theatre screen.

Its just the projector lense that changes, yet the picture always look awesome.

Thats the perfection of emulsion film - which is why on one hand I am very sad that film stills are dead and never again will "regular folks" get to experience good 35mm film shooting, developing and enjoyment.

Doesn't matter what anyone says - a digital camera will never capture the true essence of negative/emulsion processing.


Yeah I'm fully aware of how awesome it is to work with film. But for the regular folks, as today's market shows, they dont want deal with film anymore. Only the enthusiasts and pro's still work with big format film.

Still you can only enlarge a 35mm negative to a certain point before you start to get grain and loss of sharpness. Which is why the pros use big format film for large prints.

And never say never ;)

[ae86_16v]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/30/hd-dvd-rebate-promotions-a-success/

The recent rebates from Toshiba on stand alone HD DVD players has gotten us pretty excited, and it seems we're not the only ones. Toshiba is claiming that "player sales are up 5-10 times higher than before" and at least the one retailer that shares its data confirms this. In fact over the weekend the HD-A2 was rated the number 1 selling DVD player on Amazon -- no, not just in the HD category, but in all DVD players. While this is great and all, we're not sure how this is going to affect the overall outcome of the format war, but one thing is for sure, this holiday season is going to be very interesting for HD fans.

In reference to the Father's Day $100 rebate as well as the 5 Free Movies.

[Bizi Jones]

can u say fire sale...think of the losses they must be incurring with these promos...and no 'real' sales to show for it...

from the Digital Bits (Bill Hunt writes)

How are all those high-def titles selling? Let's see what Nielsen VideoScan says: As of 5/20, Blu-ray leads HD-DVD in overall software sales, 57% to 43% since both formats launched. The more recent trends are more lopsided: Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

How about the most recent sales numbers? Okay... let's consider 5/22, when Disney debuted both Pirates of the Caribbean films on Blu-ray against Warner's dual Matrix box sets on HD-DVD. According to Home Media: "The two “Pirates” films sold a combined total of nearly 47,000 units, while the higher-priced “Matrix” sets sold about 13,900 units." So more people purchased BOTH Pirates BDs than purchased any Matrix box set - even the cheaper one. Warner's recent The Departed provides another case in point. By their own admission, the studio sold 58,300 copies on Blu-ray and just 35,300 on HD-DVD.

[ae86_16v]

Whether it is lower production costs or a new need to compete seriously with Toshiba's HD DVD camp, Sony has sliced $100 off of its original pricing for the BDP-S300 Blu-ray player, to a list price of $499. That's still high given the fact that a) the PS3 lists for just $100 more and offers Blu-ray playback and a lot of extra functionality and b) Toshiba's $399 HD-A2 HD DVD player is easy to find for under $300.

Is this enough of a price break, keeping with Sony's traditional "brand premium"? Or will Sony continue to pursue Toshiba down below the hard deck, where stakes are high and profit margins are low? Will Sony ride into the danger zone, so to speak? We'll certainly know by Christmas. – Wilson Rothman


http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/price-war/sony-bdp+s300-blu+ray-player-drops-below-500-265562.php

[ae86_16v]

can u say fire sale...think of the losses they must be incurring with these promos...and no 'real' sales to show for it...



I wouldn't say they have nothing to show for it:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/ca6447181.html?q=Price+drops+lift+HD+DVD+player+sa les

Amazon sells Toshiba HD-A2 model as low as $238 over Memorial Day weekend
By Jennifer Netherby -- Video Business, 5/29/2007


Costco is selling Toshiba's low-end HD DVD player for $249.99. Photo by Tyler Pruitt
MAY 29 | Toshiba’s recent price drop on its HD DVD players and aggressive retailer pricing over the holiday weekend have driven up sales as much as tenfold at some retailers.

Since Toshiba began offering a $100 instant rebate on HD DVD players last month, sales have grown between fivefold and tenfold, depending on the retailer, said Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products.

“We’re thrilled to see that consumers are, by far, choosing Toshiba’s HD DVD players as their source for high-definition,” Sally said.

On May 20, Toshiba began offering the rebate on select HD DVD player models, effectively slashing the price on the bottom line HD-A2 model to $299.

Amazon.com cut the price even further, to as low as $238 over Memorial Day weekend. The lower price shot up the player to be the top-selling DVD player on the site, a spot previously held by the Oppo up-converting DVD player, which sells for $229.

The HD-A2 player price was back up to $299 on Tuesday on Amazon and listed as out of stock. Still it remained the top-selling DVD player and ranked No. 7 in sales in the electronics category.

An Amazon.com spokesman didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment about the sales.

Other retailers were selling the player for $299 on Tuesday, but comments on the AVS Forum reported seeing deals over the weekend from retailer Electronics Expo, which also sells players on Amazon.com.

Costco is selling the Toshiba HD-D2 (same as the HD-A2) for $249 with a free HDMI cable.

Some other retailers also are offering free add-ons to promote the players. Value Electronics is selling the HD-A2 for $299 with a free HDMI cable and seven free HD DVD movies. HDMI cables cost around $100.

Although you have to be a freaking idiot to be buying HDMI cables for $100.

And more sale new:

http://hd.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=149591

[Bizi Jones]

haha...

FREE HD-A2 player WITH 5 hddvd movies....


they're just giving them away...lol


http://www.hhgregg.com/ads/pdfs/June10071.pdf

[ae86_16v]

Uh Oh. . . HD-DVD sales not so rosy?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/13/toshiba-lowering-hd-dvd-sales-target-for-2007/

Toshiba lowering HD DVD sales target for 2007
Posted Jun 13th 2007 7:54AM by Matt Burns
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, HD DVD, Toshiba
Are the format war's heated battles winding down? Maybe. However, Toshiba's lowering of their expected sales target down 44%, 1.8 million to 1 million players, could just be market realignment.

This format war isn't healthy for ether side and we haven't seen any indication that the 800,000 players Toshiba is apparently not going to sell, Blu-ray will pick up. It is more than possible that Toshiba had to lower their expectations, not because of Blu-ray, but because the two formats have scared off many potential buyers.

Before the Blu-ray fanboys come'a hating though, the other side of the coin is that Blu-ray has been picking up steam and caused HD DVD to bend its knee - but something tells us it's the former of the two possibilities

[DeMoN]

LOL that lowering was fast!

I only have hi def movie capability due to PS3 which I bought thinking GT5 was going to come out... silly me.

[TopGearNL]

So what will win in the end probably?

[ae86_16v]

^ You know what I was thinking. Pirates of the Caribbean outsold the Matrix set right? Pirates sold something like 47,000 copies. But with all those millions (3.5 million) of PS3s out there, and only 47,000 is actually a really low number.

It seems like gamers aren't really using it as a movie player. Either that or the adoption rate for movies is really really slow.

Compared to HD DVD which Toshiba said it only sold 100,000 players as of last April, maybe double that number now with the recent sales.

It was like PS2 which was a DVD player. Was it all that important that it was a DVD player? Did that help it to be successful? In my opinion not really, what mattered in the end was that it had some great games over the Xbox (Halo saved Xbox) and competitors. (I am going to buy a PS3 later when they put the rumble back in and lower the price a bit because I still think it will have the best games out.)

In case of Blu-Ray vs HD DVD, I still think the one with the lowest price will win. The closest Blu-Ray player right now is still at $500.

[harryo2b]

F'them bitches! <-- just wanted to say that.

Anyways to share a great find:

www.deepdiscount.com

Enter Code: SUPERSALE

The coupon code gives the cart 20% off! And yes this is a real deal.
For High-Def items use the "Hi-Def" menu button on the left of the home page and select either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and start shopping.

The coupon is good for EVERYTHING in the store until June 17. Get the shit while it's hot. :mrgreen:

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah DeepDiscount.com is a good site. I picked up my copy of Plant Earth last week. :D

[Bizi Jones]

So what will win in the end probably?

read this for a summary of the 'war'...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/soapbox/soap060107.html

We simply CANNOT and WILL NOT recommend to our readers that they adopt a format that only has the full support of just a HANDFUL of major hardware manufacturers and ONLY A HANDFUL of the Hollywood studios - no matter how cheap the price - when a format of EQUAL quality and FAR GREATER studio and manufacturer support exists.

The Digital Bits had made it their goal to sit on the fence as long as possible and now they've finally picked a horse...

[ae86_16v]

^ Who's Digital Bits? Haha. . . :lol: Wait wait, before Blu-Ray was superior, now it is only "equal" to HD DVD in terms of quality. Haha. :lol:

Again, it hasn't been showing in the sales. Everyone keeps on pointing to the sales of PS3, but where's the sale of the movies? Where is the domination of Blu-Ray?

I don't know see it, nor does any other MAJOR news vendor.

I could quote hundreds of other tech blog saying that HD DVD will win, and hundreds more for Blu-Ray. :roll:

[Bizi Jones]

someone who knows what they're talking about and not spread FUD, or say shit like, ''uh oh toshiba sales not looking so rosy...but wait, they're still going to win'' :roll: :roll:

instead of asking worthless questions why not read the article and share your thoughts...

TDB
We've been involved with the home video industry for ten years now. Way back in 1997, when most people didn't even know what DVD was, we were telling people it was going to be the biggest thing since the CD. We were having conversations with the Hollywood studios that first year, where even the most senior studio executives were telling us we were crazy to think DVD was ever going to be anything more than a niche format. But we were right then. We gave the world it's first look at Circuit City's Divx format, and then said it was going to fail. We were right about that too. We were right about the need for the studios to support DVD's anamorphic widescreen capability, to ensure the highest video quality possible at the time, and we lobbied them hard to do so. Here at The Bits, we interact on a daily basis with studio personnel at all levels, with authoring/technical staffers, with DVD producers, with filmmakers and with hardware manufacturers. So we're pretty good at having our finger on the pulse of the home video industry, and knowing what the trends are. And anyone who has read The Bits since we started will know that, over the years, we've been right about a LOT more things than we've been wrong.

plz point what you think is 'NOT' true from that article...its pure facts...

[ae86_16v]

someone who knows what they're talking about and not spread FUD, or say shit like, ''uh oh toshiba sales not looking so rosy...but wait, they're still going to win'' :roll: :roll:

instead of asking worthless questions why not read the article and share your thoughts...

TDB
We've been involved with the home video industry for ten years now. Way back in 1997, when most people didn't even know what DVD was, we were telling people it was going to be the biggest thing since the CD. We were having conversations with the Hollywood studios that first year, where even the most senior studio executives were telling us we were crazy to think DVD was ever going to be anything more than a niche format. But we were right then. We gave the world it's first look at Circuit City's Divx format, and then said it was going to fail. We were right about that too. We were right about the need for the studios to support DVD's anamorphic widescreen capability, to ensure the highest video quality possible at the time, and we lobbied them hard to do so. Here at The Bits, we interact on a daily basis with studio personnel at all levels, with authoring/technical staffers, with DVD producers, with filmmakers and with hardware manufacturers. So we're pretty good at having our finger on the pulse of the home video industry, and knowing what the trends are. And anyone who has read The Bits since we started will know that, over the years, we've been right about a LOT more things than we've been wrong.

plz point what you think is 'NOT' true from that article...its pure facts...

As a matter of fact, I have read that article about a week ago.

I never said they were going to win. My thoughts were all over this thread already if you learn how to read. Facts are that both format sales as been dismal, adoption rate has been slow.

Again I posted over and over that the lowest priced player will win. What are your thoughts except that Sony will win because they are the greatest? Oh right, they sold 3.5 Million PS3s but only managed to sell a couple of hundreds of thousands of movies. Right. You are soooo right, let me run out and buy 3 PS3s to stock up, just in case they sell out.

So I take it everyone should just listen to Digital Bits because they are the expert because they've been around since the 90s, right? :roll:

[Bizi Jones]

so no response to what it has to say...typical...attack me for posting a link to an impartial reaview....ok...(u asked who the fuck is TDB...I simply provided the info)...

fact is that Blu-Ray IS selling faster than DVD did at the SAME stage back in its inception....it beating HD DVD every week by a margin on 2 to 1...despite being that much more expensive...

y not provide some counter pts if u disagree with the article...and no I am just basing EVERYTHING on it...but it summarizes most points, WHILE being generous to HDDVD ...

[ae86_16v]

so no response to what it has to say...typical...attack me for posting a link to an impartial reaview....ok...(u asked who the fuck is TDB...I simply provided the info)...

fact is that Blu-Ray IS selling faster than DVD did at the SAME stage back in its inception....it beating HD DVD every week by a margin on 2 to 1...despite being that much more expensive...

y not provide some counter pts if u disagree with the article...and no I am just basing EVERYTHING on it...but it summarizes most points, WHILE being generous to HDDVD ...

I never attacked you. I asked who TDB was and that there are millions of Blogs and Tech Reviews out there that will pick winners. I was merely responding to your accusation that I was some HD DVD fanboy. The only fanboy I am is to my wallet. If Blu-Ray or HD DVD makes a player for $200, I am game.

If you thought I was attacking you, I apologize. That was not my intent.

* * *

Back on topic, is that I still believe the lowest/cheapest player would win. Which means that the recent sale (fire sale) of HD DVD players should have an impact on the overall landscape of things. The simple fact that as you pointed out some retails are even bundling HD DVD players with TVs and that the closest Sony Blu-Ray player is at $500 makes a difference in sales.

Stand alone players, HD DVD has been winning out over Blu-Ray. Also I mentioned that the PS3 will not determine the winner because it could just be a dedicated game console like the generations before this. As shown in the sales figures for Pirates.

Again, I apologize if you believe that I was attacking you.

[Bizi Jones]

ya but u get what u pay for...sure Toshiba's are dirt cheap...but apart from having to boil disc for them to play properly, I'd actually want to c some movies from all (most) studios...and so far the only studio that is on the brink of caving in (support both) is Universal...

also u keep referring to the POTC/Matrix numbers...those were from the first week sales...what are they currently?

remember Casino Royale sold 28k it's first week as a day and date and both Pirates were only a couple thousand behind...

[DeMoN]

Anyone else own the PS3 and dont find much of a difference btween BluRay and DVDs?

Imagewise they aren that far apart from what I can tell, but yeah sound is different.

I have a Pioneer 43" plasma 1080i (no P when I bought it) so I thought I'd see a big image difference.

[Bizi Jones]

there are a number of possible issues that could cause that...depending on how u have your PS3 set up...in some cases, the PS3 might downscale the movie to 540p and then upscale it back to 1080i...

what's your configuration..and do u have the latest firmware?

[DeMoN]

hard to tell as im not in USA at the moment but I believe I had it set to 1080i

About the firmware, yeah I saw the movie with the 1rst release w/o updating it... it has gone thru 5 updates at least so ill re-check it when I have the chance.

I only saw that tallaheda nights or something the one that came free w/ps3

[ae86_16v]

More bad news for HD DVD, Blockbuster, one of the largest US Rental Outlets chooses Blu-Ray over HD DVD for in store rentals. Online will still have both. Apparently content exclusives wins out over price according to Blockbuster execs:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/17/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/

In a huge blow to Toshiba, Universal, and the rest of the HD DVD devotees, rental giant Blockbuster has decided to stock only Blu-ray discs in the vast majority of its nationwide locations, although HD DVD titles will continue to be offered online and in the 250 (out of 1,450) stores that have been testing both formats since last year.

Blockbuster VP Matthew Smith revealed to the AP that the decision to go with Blu-ray -- which will reportedly be announced tomorrow -- stemmed from an overwhelming customer preference for those titles in the test markets, accounting for over 70% of all HD discs rented.

Interestingly enough, it seems that content -- and not price -- was the deciding factor for consumers, with Blu-ray-only hits such as the Spiderman and Pirates of the Caribbean films apparently outmatching equivalent HD DVD exclusives.

While it's still a little too soon to declare Blu-ray the outright winner, this Blockbuster decision only contributes to the momentum that Sony's darling has had of late -- momentum that at this point, might be too difficult for the other guys to counter.

[ae86_16v]

ya but u get what u pay for...sure Toshiba's are dirt cheap...but apart from having to boil disc for them to play properly, I'd actually want to c some movies from all (most) studios...and so far the only studio that is on the brink of caving in (support both) is Universal...

also u keep referring to the POTC/Matrix numbers...those were from the first week sales...what are they currently?

remember Casino Royale sold 28k it's first week as a day and date and both Pirates were only a couple thousand behind...

Actually Planet Earth and The Departed had sold well on both platforms. I think if I recalled reading that The Departed also surpassed 100k copies sold.

About disc problems for HD DVDs, it looks like Blu-Rays seems to have production problems as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/16/blu-ray-disc-coatings-starting-to-rot/

Although it is only on a few titles, or maybe it is only only limited, but this isn't good for PR either.

[Bizi Jones]

More bad news for HD DVD...

lol...and yet u continue to defend it...pick a side already...stop trying to convince yourself of something u know is not going to happen...

give in to your hatred, join the blu side of hd...it is unavoidable... :P :twisted:

[ae86_16v]

More bad news for HD DVD...

lol...and yet u continue to defend it...pick a side already...stop trying to convince yourself of something u know is not going to happen...

give in to your hatred, join the blu side of hd...it is unavoidable... :P :twisted:

Haha, I continue to defend because it is pushing Blu-Ray to go cheaper. I don't have to pick a side, my wallet will do the talking. :D

Technically I have already given in since I am committed to buying a PS3 as soon as they get Rumble back in and get some games out like MGS4 and GT5.

But I have no problem using the PS3 as my only game machine and another player for my HD disc, personally I preferred it that way.

[dutchmasterflex]

Who cares if Blu-Ray drives are getting cheaper... they are still lacking in the number of movies on disc at the moment, and BD movies are freking $30. But I guess that's just inflation..


With that said, I'm still waiting for a cheap BD writer for my new desktop ;)

[TopGearNL]

Blu-ray drives just arrived over here :?

[ae86_16v]

^ Even if the drives are cheap, expect at least another year to year and a half before the blank media gets cheap enough for you to buy.

[dutchmasterflex]

Yeah that's true, although I was one of the kids who were buying 10-packs of CD-R's for 20 bucks back in the 6th grade ;)

[Bizi Jones]

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php

more good news for HDDVD...

[Jabba]

I detect sarcasm :mrgreen:

[dutchmasterflex]

Keep in mind Blockbuster is a hair away from going bankrupt... Sony must have paid them big bucks to go BlueRay exclusively..

I have a feeling this will actually end up killing Blockbuster off for good.

So this might actually be good news for HD-DVD ;)

[TopGearNL]

^ Even if the drives are cheap, expect at least another year to year and a half before the blank media gets cheap enough for you to buy.

Yeah Ive noticed that, drives might be cheap bit everything else isn't :shock:

[Bizi Jones]

Keep in mind Blockbuster is a hair away from going bankrupt... Sony must have paid them big bucks to go BlueRay exclusively..

I have a feeling this will actually end up killing Blockbuster off for good.

this the sort of FUD u'll c over at AVM$...who knew it was spreading here...


http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html

I don't c them raising the white flag just yet

but what do they know

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5200/clipboard02vk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
More good news for HDDVD

[dutchmasterflex]

one too many acronyms that i don't know.

[Bizi Jones]

http://convopit.org/images/br_chomp.gif

[Pokiou]

I dont get it.. i cant tell the difference between BR and HDDVD.. i mean i can see the difference between dvd and 720(alittle) but anything else i cant. :S

I have a few 720p and 1080i movies and both look alittle better then DVD.. is it worth the major price hike ??

[Bizi Jones]

depends on a bunch of things...what's your set up...are u just watching hd on your monitor...19"?...if so then there is no pt in going hd...however u WILL c a diff once u get to around 40"+...and the higher u go the bigger difference u 'feel'...

[ae86_16v]

^ Are you saying that Blu-Ray is better than HD DVD when you have a screen that is +40"?

But to answer question Pokiou, it depends on the encoding codec a numerous other features. But both are capable formats and technology wise there isn't a significant difference.

Now between High Definition (720p and 1080i/p) and DVD (480p) there is a signification difference. I mean even with Enhanced Definition TV which is 480p you could see a good quality increase already over SDTV.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-edtv-and-hdtv.htm

These are the minimal resolution:

1080i/p = 1980x1080
720p = 1280x720
576p = 852x576

As you can see, the High Definitions offers a lot more pixels, thus more resolution = better looking pictures.

Here's is another good guide that explains everything pretty well:

http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,339271051,00.htm


Also when viewing at the optimal distance (8-10ft away) for televisions larger than 40" but smaller than say 60", it is hard to notice the difference between 1080p vs 720p. Not that there isn't a difference, but at optimal viewing distance when you are that far away, it will not make a significant difference.

But if you are using it for a computer monitor as well, by all means get the one with more pixels.

[ae86_16v]

Maybe it is time to get that PS3 now. :D

http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/743359
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=546884

Or should I wait until they got Rumble back in there:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sony/ps3-sixaxis-rumble-returning-soon-273352.php

[Pokiou]

i use a 22" LCD .. so im just saying from what i watch.. maybe i need a bigger monitor .. i am buying a 720p projector maybe this week :D i loved jabba's setup and thought WHY THE FUCK NOT !

[Bizi Jones]

^ Are you saying that Blu-Ray is better than HD DVD when you have a screen that is +40"?

HD - high def...(Not HD DVD)

but ya, that's what I am saying :P

Maybe it is time to get that PS3 now. :D

meh, most of those movies are shit...

[ae86_16v]

New:

Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD so far this year

Posted Aug 16th 2007 9:57AM by Matt Burns

Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD this year 2-to-1. We aren't going to sugar coat these numbers even though some might call it fanboy-ism but others will quietly state from the corner of the room, "Numbers don't lie." Home Media Research reports that Blu-ray has currently sold 1.6 million discs this year while HD DVD has only moved 795,000. The research firm also estimates 3.7 million high definition disc have been sold since launch and 2.2 went to the Blu-ray camp with the remaining 1.5 belonging to HD DVD. Only time will tell if these initial numbers mean anything but it seems Blu-ray is winning the battle for '07.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/16/blu-ray-has-outsold-hd-dvd-so-far-this-year/

Looks like this format war will last a bit longer now:

Paramount, Dreamworks dropping Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD exclusivity
Posted Aug 20th 2007 1:17PM by Richard Lawler


Affiliations in the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war have been pretty clearly defined for nearly two years now -- despite a hybrid player here and some international releases there, most of the players involved have not switched support since the early days. Well that's all about to change, as Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation -- which started off HD DVD only before deciding to go both ways -- have officially announced plans to release movies exclusively on HD DVD, dropping Blu-ray support entirely. This means that hits like Transformers, Shrek the Third and Blades of Glory won't follow Mission: Impossible III as cross-format releases when they debut this holiday season. Paramount has released about 30 movies on Blu-ray so far, but those days have come to an end: apparently cheaper HD players trump a 2:1 sales advantage. We can't wait to see how the Blu-ray camp responds to this.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/20/paramount-dreamworks-dropping-blu-ray-in-favor-of-hd-dvd-exclus/

[Bizi Jones]

damn...just when I take a dive into BD... :?

with FOX still on a hiatus...now this...boo

[ae86_16v]

^ Ehh, you could still use it for gaming, which is the number one reason why I got it. Although I did pick up one BluRay movie the other day which was Casino Royale. :D

[Bizi Jones]

did u send out for your 5 free movies?

www.bluraysavings.com

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah, haven't decided what movies I want yet. But I think I am gonna go for:

Pearl Harbor
Corpse Bride
Underworld Evolution
The Italian Job
Kiss of the Dragon or The Transporter

Nothing too special. The Guardian was good, but I think Pearl Harbor had better action. I already have Blazing Saddles. And I already have two copies of The Italian Job but I didn't like Babel. Can't decided between car action in The Transporter or terrible story but awesome fight scenes in Kiss of the Dragon. :|

[Bizi Jones]

went wit chicken little, blazing saddles, UE, italian job, tranporter 2...

have guardian, pearl harbor, re 2, species...from that list...don't care about the rest

[Bizi Jones]

Looks like this format war will last a bit longer now:

Paramount, Dreamworks dropping Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD exclusivity
Posted Aug 20th 2007 1:17PM by Richard Lawler


Affiliations in the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war have been pretty clearly defined for nearly two years now -- despite a hybrid player here and some international releases there, most of the players involved have not switched support since the early days. Well that's all about to change, as Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation -- which started off HD DVD only before deciding to go both ways -- have officially announced plans to release movies exclusively on HD DVD, dropping Blu-ray support entirely. This means that hits like Transformers, Shrek the Third and Blades of Glory won't follow Mission: Impossible III as cross-format releases when they debut this holiday season. Paramount has released about 30 movies on Blu-ray so far, but those days have come to an end: apparently cheaper HD players trump a 2:1 sales advantage. We can't wait to see how the Blu-ray camp responds to this.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/20/paramount-dreamworks-dropping-blu-ray-in-favor-of-hd-dvd-exclus/

lol, pay off by M$?

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

+ more good news for hddvd (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/MGM/Fox/Industry_Forecasts/Disc_Announcements/Fox_Set_to_Renew_Blu-ray_Commitment,_Announce_Future_Release_Plans/875)

[ae86_16v]

Yeah suppose to be:

$50 million for Paramount
$100 million for Dreamworks
$50 million for Universal

on the other side:

$50 million for Disney
$20 million for Fox

* * *

What I can't understand is why Dreamworks gets $100 million. Yeah, they got some great movies, but they are no where near the force of Warners, Universal, or Paramount.

[666fast]

i use a 22" LCD .. so im just saying from what i watch.. maybe i need a bigger monitor .. i am buying a 720p projector maybe this week :D i loved jabba's setup and thought WHY THE FUCK NOT !

I use a 19" widescreen monitor and it made a huge difference.

[Bizi Jones]

top grossing movies from paramount/dreamworks...
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14127

and a lot of them are Spielberg's....and he's not releasing shit on HD DVD... 8)

[ae86_16v]

^ No, Spielberg films just aren't HD exclusive, that's all.

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah, I saw that. . . he is basically saying no Paramount movies period. Haha. But then again $$$ talks. So will we see what happens.

[Bizi Jones]

^^
so much for that...$ talks indeed

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31217&highlight=#31217

[ae86_16v]

top grossing movies from paramount/dreamworks...
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14127

and a lot of them are Spielberg's....and he's not releasing shit on HD DVD... 8)

So it seems like it will be a Title by Title bases by with Close Encounters coming to Blu-Ray first. . .


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Steven_Spielberg/Industry_Forecasts/Exclusive:_Spielberg_Big_Supporter_of_Blu-ray,_But_Future_High-Def_Releases_Uncertain/878

Levy went on emphasize that beyond 'Close Encounters,' Spielberg has no other films in the high-def pipeline on either format. "At this moment, there are no plans for something further [on either format]. Anything in the future will be decided on a title-by-title basis. There certainly won't be more titles in 2007."

[Bizi Jones]

Microsoft's HD War (http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/TechQ307/Entries/2007/8/29_Origins_of_the_Blu-ray_vs_HD-DVD_War.html)

[RC45]

This can't end well for consumers... we may end up stuck with a proprietary non-upgradable crap rammed down our throats.

[Bizi Jones]

http://img0735.paintedover.com/uploads/thumbs/0735/clipboard01_3.jpg (http://paintedover.com/uploads/show.php?loc=0735&f=clipboard01_3.jpg)

:D

[ae86_16v]

^ Picked up your first Blu-Ray movies huh? :D

I still have yet to buy anything. Waiting for a good coupon to pick up Planet Earth though.

[Bizi Jones]

http://whv.warnerbros.com/WHVPORTAL/Portal/browsesearchtitles.jsp?formatType=Blu-ray&functionmode=13&titleORCastCrew=planet%20earth

coupon is JLBM, valid till the 30th tho

gives u a total of 60usd

I was going to use it, but they don't ship to Canada :(

[Bizi Jones]

http://img0735.paintedover.com/uploads/thumbs/0735/clipboard01_4.jpg (http://paintedover.com/uploads/show.php?loc=0735&f=clipboard01_4.jpg)

:D

[r2r]

Microsoft's HD War (http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/TechQ307/Entries/2007/8/29_Origins_of_the_Blu-ray_vs_HD-DVD_War.html)

That was an interesting read. thanks.

[Bizi Jones]

^ Picked up your first Blu-Ray movies huh? :D

I still have yet to buy anything. Waiting for a good coupon to pick up Planet Earth though.

whole month of October...25% off at WB

code is CTBM

[ae86_16v]

Where's WB?

[Bizi Jones]

http://whv.warnerbros.com/WHVPORTAL/Portal/browsesearchtitles.jsp?formatType=Blu-ray&functionmode=13&titleORCastCrew=planet%20earth

[musicetime101]

And there is something about that the Blu-Ray vs HD DVD also :
http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/19/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-state-of-the-s-union-s-division/

[Bizi Jones]

so...

[unwilling]

Right now, i think HD owns the market. but once their limit is reached, Blu-ray may catch on again.

[Bizi Jones]

try reading some of the thread...or at least glance through a little...

bd is outselling hddvd 2:1

[unwilling]

haha, well, i obviously have a poor perspective. i stand corrected

[ae86_16v]

Update & Netflix:

In a not-so-surprising turn, standalone HD DVD players have regained their lead on Blu-ray sales in September, giving the overall year-to-date figures (in which HD DVD has always been ahead) as 53% HD DVD, 44% Blu-ray, and 3% dual-format. Although this may give you the impression that HD DVD is in the lead, the numbers don't include the PS3, which dwarfs sales of standalone HD DVD and Blu-ray players by quite a large margin (based on June figures).

Things are also interestingly murky over on Netflix. When looking at their published numbes, Blu-ray has about twice as many people looking at the category, but only about 1/3 as many choosing it as their preference. We're not sure exactly what's going on, but our theory is that PS3 owners who got a Blu-ray player as part of the bargain are only marginally interested in its features, which explains the increased overall views. HD DVD owners, who either bought a standalone player or an add-on for the 360, knew what they were getting into, and thus have a higher preference for the format. Sounds good to us. *slaps hands together, then wipes on pants* [DailyTech via Crunchgear]

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-war/hd-dvd-player-sales-top-blu+ray-again-win-netflix-users-as-well-309905.php

Total release:

HD DVD 306 vs Blu-ray 297

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/08/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-releases-on-october-9th-2007/

[ae86_16v]

Good WSJ Article:

Blu-ray or HD DVD:
Which Side Are You On?
Consumers Hesitate to Choose
A High-Definition Format;
'Batman' Plays It Both Ways
By SARAH MCBRIDE
September 25, 2007; Page D1

It's becoming a holiday tradition: The two competing high-definition DVD formats are gearing up for the Christmas season, each hoping to consign the other to the dustbin of consumer electronics and declare victory.

And just as last holiday season, Santa isn't going to declare a winner yet. In fact, a vexing contradiction has settled into the marketplace that is likely to prolong the fight between the Toshiba-backed HD DVD and the Sony-backed Blu-ray formats.

One contender, HD DVD, has taken the lead on the hardware side, with about 58% of sales, according to Adams Media Research. HD DVD is moving ahead in that department because players in that format are cheaper. At least two HD DVD players are available for less than $300, and by the holidays there should be an offering at around $199, many movie-studio executives believe. By contrast, Blu-ray players start at $449.

Yet Blu-ray has taken a big lead in sales of movie titles. Blu-ray discs are outselling HD DVDs by about 2-to-1 this year. That's in part because so many people who bought Sony's PlayStation 3 game console, which also plays Blu-ray discs, have bought some high-definition movies. Plus, supporters of the Blu-ray technology have had an edge so far in brokering deals with movie studios for exclusive distribution of titles.

The upshot: Both formats remain viable. And even though consumers can get free movies when they purchase a player, millions of people are sitting on the sidelines, their wallets untouched.

Couper Samuelson, a producer in Los Angeles, recently bought a top-of-the-line Samsung high-definition television set. But he skipped buying a DVD player of either format to go with it. "If there was a clear winning horse, I would have bet on that horse," he says. Instead, Mr. Samuelson mostly watches high-definition movies and shows that his digital video recorder snags from his cable service.

Compare the situation to regular DVDs, which were launched 10 years ago, in March 1997. That calendar year, consumers bought 350,000 DVD players, according to the Consumer Electronics Association. But while high-definition players of both formats have been available since the middle of last year, only about 300,000 have been sold, according to Adams Media Research. Gaming devices that play one format or the other add about 1.6 million to the tally, mostly Blu-ray, but not everyone uses gaming devices for movies.

Paul Erickson, an analyst at NPD Group's DisplaySearch, says that like many analysts, he has been forced to revise his next-generation DVD sales projections downward this year, though he declines to give a precise estimate. He blames the format war less than the industry's failure to deliver a compelling product at compelling prices. "You have to get people to care about this category to begin with," he says.

The growing popularity of big-screen, high-definition TV sets -- which can play either format, depending on the player you buy to go with it -- suggests that consumers are eager to watch cutting-edge, super-crisp movies. And hardware prices for both HD DVD and Blu-ray players are dropping. But the battle over availability of titles is further muddying the picture.

Until just a few weeks ago, it was looking like Blu-ray could take a decisive lead. The Sony-led coalition that backs Blu-ray has exclusive deals with News Corp.'s Fox, Walt Disney Co. and Sony Corp.'s Sony Pictures. Blu-ray alone would be able to offer high-definition versions of two big expected holiday DVD releases, Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End" and Sony's "Spider-Man 3."

The Toshiba-led consortium that backs HD DVD had only one of the major studios -- General Electric Co.'s Universal -- signed on exclusively. Warner Bros. and Viacom Inc.'s Paramount were publishing on both formats.

But last month, after offering huge financial incentives like marketing support and cash payments, the HD DVD camp got Paramount and DreamWorks Animation SKG to agree to publish high-definition versions of their titles on HD DVD only. That added two big holiday flicks, Paramount's "Transformers" and DreamWorks Animation's "Shrek the Third," to the list of HD DVD exclusives. Now, just one expected top DVD blockbuster, Warner Bros.' "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," will appear in both formats. (All of these movies, of course, are available in the traditional, non-high-definition DVD format.)

The latest deals were key for HD DVD, says Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research. "Generally, Paramount and DreamWorks [Animation] are moving toward bigger market share than they've had in the past," he says. "Their move has more long-term significance" than it would have even a couple of years ago.

Trying to pick the winning format by looking ahead to next year's hot releases is tricky, too. Releasing new titles in hit movie series is always a sales driver, but neither camp has the clear lead here. The Disney "Pirates" franchise is on pause, at least for now. New "Spider-Man" and "Shrek" movies won't be ready yet.

Many sequels that people will be buzzing about next year, like the new "Batman" movie, will be coming out on both formats. However, Universal will have new installments in the "Hulk" and "Mummy" series, headed for HD DVD only, while Disney has a new "Narnia" movie, exclusive to Blu-ray.

The respective studios that have signed on exclusively to one format or the other are putting some of their own marketing heft into the battle. Anyone buying a player can expect free DVDs with their purchase; most Toshiba players, for example, come with two free HD DVDs in the box and coupons for five more. Sony players come with coupons for five free Blu-ray movies. Expect such promotions to ramp up as the holiday season gets into high gear.

[Bizi Jones]

^ meh...

but

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5200/clipboard01qk1.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01qk1.jpg)

:D :D

[ae86_16v]

^ meh...

but

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5200/clipboard01qk1.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01qk1.jpg)

:D :D

How's Robocop? The PQ? I was thinking about picking that up. . .

[Bizi Jones]

well not great tbh...bd25, mpeg2...I'll call it 3/5 (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1086/robocop_fox.html)

but I'll assume that the source was crap...however F42 was an amazing transfer...too bad the movie sucked balls :x

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah, I just read that review. Thanks. Hmm, I might skip this copy then, HD Digest is saying they used a dirty master copy. :(

Thanks for the heads up.

[Bizi Jones]

yeh, I guess I'll keep mine till they release a remaster...

[666fast]

yeh, I guess I'll keep mine till they release a remaster...

Ugg, I hate that. Get it right the first time dipshits. I doubt they were unaware of the situation.

[Max Power]

well its still early...and as an early adopter, there are bound to be bumps in the road...:|

+ there are bound to be numerous version releases just like dvd...

[666fast]

well its still early...and as an early adopter, there are bound to be bumps in the road...:|

+ there are bound to be numerous version releases just like dvd...

I can understand different versions of movies, Director cuts, unrated versions etc..
But to knowingly put out a shit transfer is annoying and it shouldn't happen. Ah fuck it, put it out and if people complain, we'll do it over again in another year or two and charge the suckers again.

[Max Power]

well, it was a Fox release...and they aren't too keen on outside help...and as far as I am aware not as familiar with BD as other members of BDA...and they did scrap an earlier release of RC, since it was crap...so if this is the best they can do for now, so be it...remember Sony offered a free replacement of the Fifth Element when they remastered it...like I said early adoption has its peaks and valleys...

[Bizi Jones]

B1G1 free at amazon (Best Buy and Future Shop too)...
404 - Document Not Found

[ae86_16v]

Actually it is pretty much everywhere for Disney Blu Rays. . .

I finally got around to picking up Planet Earth for $55 at Frys Electronics/Outpost. :D

[ae86_16v]

A standalone HD DVD player for less than two Benjamins? From a manufacturer that we've heard of? We've been waiting for that day for some time now, and while there have certainly been wild claims by less popular foreign outfits and even price hiccups that have paired certain players with a (temporary) sub-$200 pricetag, it's about time for entry-level units on the whole to settle beneath the barrier.

If a number of reports circling the web are true, we just might see it happen in the not-too-distant future, which isn't all that shocking considering how HD DVD player prices have been (expectedly) falling in recent months.

Apparently, a $198 Toshiba HDA2-W has been noticed in Wal-Mart systems, and you won't color us surprised if it's joined by a few other name brand alternatives in time for the holiday rush. Of course, it remains to be seen if buyers will be willing to forgo the extras that higher-end units are blessed with in order to simply have a player that understands HD DVD, but historically speaking, money talks (the loudest).

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/18/sub-200-hd-dvd-players-just-around-the-bend/

[Bizi Jones]

so what...doesn't fix the lack of content, the shoddy built quality, the lack of hd audio, the lack of space for hd audio, only 1 CE hardware manufacturer who's only plan seems to be taking a bigger loss every quarter on its hardware...

ps3 40 is out now...at 400, 80 is 500...this holiday season, once it walks through that door, Blu-Ray will kill independent HDDVD...nuff said

[Bizi Jones]

Actually it is pretty much everywhere for Disney Blu Rays. . .

I finally got around to picking up Planet Earth for $55 at Frys Electronics/Outpost. :D

:good:

[unwilling]

Actually it is pretty much everywhere for Disney Blu Rays. . .

I finally got around to picking up Planet Earth for $55 at Frys Electronics/Outpost. :D

nice find, i was impulsive and bought it full price

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah it was actually pretty hard to find it anything under $60.

News:

'Transformers' Sets HD Sales Record
By David Becker EmailOctober 23, 2007 | 11:58:40 AMCategories: Film

Transformers_movie_poster_optimus_p Paramount is claiming a new record for HD movie sale with the recent release of "Transformers" in the HD DVD format. The studio says the smash-'em-up epic sold more than 100,000 units on its first day and 190,000 in its first week, besting any previous HD DVD or Blu-ray title.

To get an idea of how tiny the HD market still is, however, note that the plain ol' DVD version of "Transformers" (directed, BTW, by Blu-ray booster Michael Bay) sold 4.5 million units on its first day.

Michael Bay still bitching about lack of BluRay:

As a director, my critical eye is that Blu-ray is where my money is.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/dvd/2007-10-22-transformers-bay_N.htm

[Bizi Jones]

eh, those numbers are claimed to be worldwide sales...well we'll this friday what the Nielson numbers say...

[ae86_16v]

Blu-ray (nearly) maintains 2-to-1 sales lead over HD DVD

Posted Oct 24th 2007 3:01AM by Darren Murph
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, HD DVD

We last saw official numbers for Blu-ray / HD DVD disc sales in August, and for those wondering what a month or so would do to the race, we've got extraordinarily uneventful news. According to Home Media Research, sales of Blu-ray titles from January 1st to September 30th of this year now total 2.6-million units, while the HD DVD camp has moved some 1.4-million flicks in the same period.

Granted, HD DVD has managed to close the gap somewhat, and analysts are expecting the impressive sales of Transformers (among other notable Q4 releases) to narrow the margin further by the year's end. 'Course, we're no closer now to settling this whole format war than we were this summer, but it's always enjoyable to pick apart the statistics, no?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/24/blu-ray-nearly-maintains-2-to-1-sales-lead-over-hd-dvd/

[Bizi Jones]

future proof of bd...

1. potential for more layers, right now at 2 (hd dvd has peaked and will have to replace the current spec of 1x 15gb per layer and go to a new spec of 1.5x(spin rate) (of bd) and 17gb per layer...which the current players won't read - as much as makes no diff fact)

2. bd+, unlike aacs will/is providing sound drm, and can be updated unlike the broken key for aacs...(remember bd+ is been out for a month hasn't been broken, unlike transformers ;))

3. bd writers are out as of now...with the current bd 50 providing excellent back up storage....and with 100 and 200 gb on the horizon and more affordable writers, sky is the limit....no hddvd writers are available as of now (most likely won't be either)

4. ps3, uses a bd drive, hence games will always be released on it...where as if hddvd failed (no other venue of use - same goes for storage, just read the recent article from TDK (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=19746&highlight=media+storage) about y they chose bd)

also the next gen games will need more room...than that of dvd 9...hddvd will not be used for games...(seems that's what;s holding the release of gta4...compressing for the dvd9 on 360 version)

5. bd does indeed have better video, (high bit rates + numerous websites (http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6326) have rated on avg bd's video transfers higher than of hddvd)...

+ it has the room for uncompressed audio, unlike the dd+ track on transformers ;) (yes even tho it got a 5* rating...)
(HD DVD has reached it's limit and cannot provide both)

6. once 1.1 spec becomes a mandate after oct 31 (pip, java capabilites...) there won't be anything bd can't do that hddvd can do...(not the same if reversed)

7. hard coating (bd is more scratch resistant that either hd/dvd)

anyways...that's just otoh :wink:

[ae86_16v]

1. 30GB has been shown to be "enough" in terms of excellent quality video. Take Paramount releases in both formats to show that they are visually indistinguishable. Even with the other extra 20GB. Personally, for computer use, of course 50GB is better, but not at the expensive of paying ridiculous royalties to Sony.

2. Nothing is ever unbreakable.

3. Yes, storage is better.

4. Okay, and I am sure terrible sales of the PS3 are showing that. ;)

5. See my next post about Specs vs Reality. There are numerous movies with both really good quality and Lost-less audio.

6. Hmm, 1.1 huh? I guess we will see it when it comes. ;) Let's hope the current players are upgradeable. By the way, the things you listed seems to be already available on HD DVDs. :)

7. Okay. :D

[ae86_16v]

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/Commentary:_Specs_vs._Reality/1096

. . . I'm not suggesting that viewers should relax their standards or accept substandard quality as "good enough" when it's really not, but the technical specs alone simply do not tell the whole story, and over-emphasizing them is a matter of misplaced priorities. We should judge these discs by the actual quality they deliver, not by misleading statistics like the bit rate or the specs listing on the packaging. Surely, that can't be too much to ask.

[nthfinity]

bah

all bullocks.

That is why I've got my HDDVD player right now that Halo 3 has come out, and will have my bluRay player when GT5 comes out!

:P

I mean.... that is what we're all going to do anyway, right?

:P :P

[666fast]

1. Yay, more wasted space. Movies and games will never fill up a disc with 100GB+ of space.

2. I don't care how sound the new DRM is, I don't want it there period. All it really does is stifle the end user.

3. $600 for the burner and about $30 for each BD50, what will the 100 or 200Gb discs cost? Oh wait, it's a shit ton cheaper for me to buy more storage. None of this will matter to anyone until it's cheap. Which isn't going to happen soon. I don't think HD DVD is at a disadvantage by not having a writer out. I don't imagine that a lot of people have bought a BR writer.

4. TDK sure is supportive of BR Association. Which isn't surprising, with them being one of it's founders.
The only way a game will fill up a BR disc is if the developers are lazy or dumb. There are plenty of developers that have already stated that the extra space on a BR disc is being used to speed up load times to get around bottlenecks in the hardware. Assuming that somehow a entire BD50 is actually filled up by a game, does that mean PS3 owners will have to suffer through enormous load times? I sure hope not.

5. Bit rates mean nothing, the article ae86 posted points that out. Plus, comparing reviews between formats in that way is a bit flawed. Average scores of movies by different authors with different equipment. Even then, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference of one codec versus another.
Uncompressed audio, again, read ae86's link. It doesn't matter. It sounds fantastic with DD+ to me. Even then, how many people calibrate their EQ's properly? How many people even realize they have, or even know what an EQ is? The magical uncompressed audio won't matter one single bit unless you are using AAA grade equipment thats been setup properly. Did you setup your speakers correctly, or did you just push them around until it sounded right to you?

6. I don't know what 1.1 is, I probably don't really care either.

7. Hard coating. Do you plan on using your movies as drink coasters or something? I for one like to take care of my stuff.

The problem with running around quoting specs like this, other than whats pointed out in ae86's article, is that it wreaks of fanboyish behavior. I find it funny when people feel the need to justify their purchase by making snide remarks about the opposition. I could care less which format is technically superior, I like most people, don't have the necessary equipment to utilize either format to it's fullest extent.

Making a purchase based on arbitrary numbers like this is foolish IMO. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not the format you choose offers what the movies you want, not which offers a better, yet to most undetectable, audio stream or video compression method.
All that matters to me is being able to watch the movies I want in high def. Which means owning both formats.

[ae86_16v]

^ Well said Nth and 666Fast.

Which is what I've been advocating as well. Which is why I own a Toshiba A2 and a PS3. :D

At this point, I think it has gotten to where neither companies can afford to "lose" this war, what's gonna happen? Probably hybrid format players will prevail.

I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises.

So I am gonna hope that Samsung and LG can start making more of those hybrid players and hopefully drive the price down.

[666fast]

I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises.


Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either.
The only reason i bought my HD DVD player was because it was on sale. I won't be too upset about losing $130 if HD DVD goes bust. The PS3 is a blue ray player by default, so if that goes bust, it'll still have games. There really isn't much to lose.


A friend of mine installs high end home theaters and has openly discouraged buying either format. He believes that the industry will move on to streaming HD content before either becomes the standard.

[ae86_16v]

I know at the beginning I was hoping that HD DVD would win out because of the cheaper hardware, but now either way Sony isn't going to give up. Nor would there by any compromises.


Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either.
The only reason i bought my HD DVD player was because it was on sale. I won't be too upset about losing $130 if HD DVD goes bust. The PS3 is a blue ray player by default, so if that goes bust, it'll still have games. There really isn't much to lose.


A friend of mine installs high end home theaters and has openly discouraged buying either format. He believes that the industry will move on to streaming HD content before either becomes the standard.

Agreed. I picked up mine for $175 after coupons and such. I figure it is still an excellent upscaling player ;).

Yeah, Sony did bet the farm on it. They are hurting like crazy, and bleeding red ink. But they are doing really well with their Bravia LCD line.

And the sales show neither are taking a hold of the market. Transformers is the best opening of any HD format with 190,000 sold in the first week, but compared to DVDs which sold over 8.4 million, so the numbers sale right now are a non-factor.

[Bizi Jones]

We should judge these discs by the actual quality they deliver, not by misleading statistics like the bit rate or the specs listing on the packaging. Surely, that can't be too much to ask.

ok...so what was that thing that I posted...oh yah, rankings from sites that list their reviews of bd vs hd...and what was the outcomes...bd > hd...


1. Yay, more wasted space. Movies and games will never fill up a disc with 100GB+ of space.

what makes u so sure...what about a 1 disc for the LOTR trilogy...as an example...currently 30gb will not be enough for the entire movie (unless compressed like hell)


2. I don't care how sound the new DRM is, I don't want it there period. All it really does is stifle the end user.

Maybe you don't but you aren't the one who's releasing movies are u...thought so, and when Studios scream that they're losing tonnes of money of piracy they're bound to pick a format that'll ensure protection against it...

3. $600 for the burner and about $30 for each BD50, what will the 100 or 200Gb discs cost?
patience, the format is in its infancy...dvd burners were n diff, yet for some reason u can't seem to c 2 sec down the road...give it time...jeez

4. TDK sure is supportive of BR Association. Which isn't surprising, with them being one of it's founders.
why not read the article...it says Y!!! they chose to pick bd in the 1st place
The only way a game will fill up a BR disc is if the developers are lazy or dumb. There are plenty of developers that have already stated that the extra space on a BR disc is being used to speed up load times to get around bottlenecks in the hardware.
again did u not read what I said...no I thought not...next gen games WILL need more space...and yes as it currently stands, dvd9 are sufficient (remember future proof....cd - dvd - bd?)
Assuming that somehow a entire BD50 is actually filled up by a game, does that mean PS3 owners will have to suffer through enormous load times? I sure hope not.
hearsay...u don't know that...and spilling out your opinion doesn't make it fact...or does it?

5. Bit rates mean nothing, the article ae86 posted points that out. Plus, comparing reviews between formats in that way is a bit flawed. Average scores of movies by different authors with different equipment.
I give u bit rates u call them meaningless, I give u ratings stats (all favoring bd) - they're flawed...not much else I can do to convince you that reviewers, hdm owners say bd vid quality is better...:?

Even then, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference of one codec versus another.
maybe not...but then y has BD won every week in sales against HD...even when supposedly Transformers sold 190k...(quote all of the above ;))

The magical uncompressed audio won't matter one single bit unless you are using AAA grade equipment thats been setup properly. Did you setup your speakers correctly, or did you just push them around until it sounded right to you?
- read future proof!!! (did u always have a htib...no...so then when u decided to upgrade it in a couple of years and realize its pointless cause hddvd won't utilize any of it...I remeber watching SW on a 27" box in VHS...+ can't u understand those pts were meant to highlight BD's future proof aspects)


6. I don't know what 1.1 is, I probably don't really care either.
plz read...Picture in Picture, full Java capabilities (mainly used for extras)

7. Hard coating. Do you plan on using your movies as drink coasters or something? I for one like to take care of my stuff.
Did u know movies are watched by families...oh and did u also know that kids can be 'less' careful when handling fragile objects...:wink:

The problem with running around quoting specs like this, other than whats pointed out in ae86's article, is that it wreaks of fanboyish behavior. I find it funny when people feel the need to justify their purchase by making snide remarks about the opposition.
- Snide remarks lol...specs provide tangible evidence of ranking one thing to another with out it turning into 'well mine is prettier(sp?) than yours'...then on top of that I also give u ratings from different sources...I don't really see where u get fanboyism from that ':roll:'

I could care less which format is technically superior, I like most people, don't have the necessary equipment to utilize either format to it's fullest extent.
man.......future proof....when u do get the equipment, are u going to re buy all of your movies again...

Making a purchase based on arbitrary numbers like this is foolish IMO. At the end of the day, what matters is whether or not the format you choose offers what the movies you want, not which offers a better, yet to most undetectable, audio stream or video compression method.
All that matters to me is being able to watch the movies I want in high def. Which means owning both formats.

What do u suggest ppl do when making a purchase...look at the facts...Blu-Ray movies have sold better EVERY SINGLE week this year...on an avg of 2:1....this is the formats 1st full year....

when buying a tv or any type of CE, you ALWAYS look at the specs...then you try it out...I wouldn't call that foolish

Finally I do agree that this format war is bullshit, but then the BDA didn't start it...it was always going to be the next optical format...and if MS didn't try to force its proprietary HDi down the BDA throat then there would be no war...(I've posted many articles here about this)...

as for owning both formats...well, u're welcome to it, but both formats will not coexist...retailers will eventually drop one (and by the looks of things its going to be soon, Q4 will be a deciding factor for many)...and then u'll be stuck with your tin can Toshiba (A2 doesn't even do 1080p), and all those hddvd exclusives will release on bd, and u'll be forced to double dip, again...

In conclusion, the original 7pts were meant to outline Blu-rays future proof assets rather than the outline of which one to buy...

have fun reading all that... :P

[ae86_16v]

as for owning both formats...well, u're welcome to it, but both formats will not coexist...retailers will eventually drop one (and by the looks of things its going to be soon, Q4 will be a deciding factor for many)...and then u'll be stuck with your tin can Toshiba (A2 doesn't even do 1080p), and all those hddvd exclusives will release on bd, and u'll be forced to double dip, again...

In conclusion, the original 7pts were meant to outline Blu-rays future proof assets rather than the outline of which one to buy...

have fun reading all that... :P

I am bet that Q4 will not deliver the victory to BluRay. :D

And second, A2 deliveries great pictures on my 720p Aquos.

[Bizi Jones]

Sony has almost literally bet the farm on the PS3 and Blue Ray, I wouldn't expect them to give up anytime soon. I wouldn't expect HD DVD to give up anytime soon either.

common misconception...Sony does NOT own Blu-Ray, it's doesn't even own the most patents for it...(Panasonic)...and yes Sony has bet on Blu-Ray (however not the farm as you all seem to think ':roll:') (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/25/technology/sony.php)

Toshiba still gets major royalties from dvd...and as the predominant supported of hddvd, will strive to prolong the war as long as possible...because doing so will stall the move to hdm and keep its dvd royalties flowing...

They are hurting like crazy, and bleeding red ink. But they are doing really well with their Bravia LCD line.

the only thing Sony is not making money on is ps3 (that margin keeps coming down)...everything else is sold at a profit (BDA has a business strategy ;)...not just throwing money at the problem and giving away players)
Toshiba is also losing money on hardware...hence no other CE manufacturer makes a player...so both are bleeding red

and last time I checked the BBB rating for Toshiba NA is an F (http://www.toshibasucks.org/) :wink:

[ae86_16v]

^ Keep in mind, that is quarterly profits. . . let's hope they won't get hit again w/ battery recalls. ;)

[ae86_16v]

As far as I am concern. . . they can keep giving them away. :D

Toshiba A3 on Black Friday @ $169.99:

http://www.black-friday.net/ad/sears-black-friday.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929855

[Bizi Jones]

what about the software?...still 39.99 mrsp ... if that was close to dvds...like 5-10 bucks a pop, THEN I world consider it...but for now dl's are sufficient...and bds here ad there....

[ae86_16v]

future proof of bd...
. . .

2. bd+, unlike aacs will/is providing sound drm, and can be updated unlike the broken key for aacs...(remember bd+ is been out for a month hasn't been broken, unlike transformers ;))

. . .


http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30/slysoft-claims-to-have-cracked-bd-naysayers-fall-quiet/

:lol:

We haven't broken down the minutes and seconds or anything, but we're fairly certain that July 10th wasn't exactly ten years ago. Nevertheless, the so-called "impenetrable" BD+ DRM scheme has reportedly already been subverted, and it's no shock to hear that the folks behind SlySoft had a hand in it.

Regrettably, there's not a lot of details beyond that just yet, but according to the outfit's CEO, the software is ready to rock and should be released before the end of 2007. Chalk (yet another) one up to the hackers.


But Uh-Oh for HD DVD:

Don't etch this one in stone just yet, but for those keeping a close eye on studios and which camp(s) they support, here's the latest. Reportedly, a so-called Blu-ray Festival has been raging in Hollywood, and aside from BD backers showing up in support of upcoming / existing films, there have also been a few interesting remarks uttered along the way.

Most notably, Dan Silverberg, VP of high-definition media for Warner Home Video, stated that "one thing that may be changing is [Warner's] strategy," and he continued by proclaiming that hardware prices had reached a point where consumers "no longer wanted to decide" which format reigned supreme.

The speech actually got interesting when he mentioned that the "notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something the company was re-evaluating." Beyond that, egos were simply inflated even more as recent BD vs. HD DVD sales figures were trumpeted about, but we think the aforementioned commentary is far more interesting that hearing about numbers we're already familiar with.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wars/warner-bros-considering-blu+ray-exclusivity-316664.php
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30/warner-home-video-to-support-blu-ray-exclusively/

[Bizi Jones]

Well I never doubted that it would eventually get broken (not yet tho)...but what you have to calculate is, is it worth it to go through all that just for one title, remember it still won't work in a bd player, cause as soon as its broken, they'll change up the bd+ scheme and they'll have to break it again...the point of bd+ is more to do with deterring the casual hacker from pirating bds rather than stopping hacking...like anything else return vs investment has to be greater...and i think with bd+ its not...job done

[ae86_16v]

More on BD+

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-war/blu+ray-copy-protection-cracked-disk-copying-software-out-by-years-end-316852.php

Slysoft, the makers of AnyDVD, CloneDVD, and many other disc-copying software apps, have just cracked the Blu-ray BD+ copy protection. This means, if Slysoft's predictions are correct, a commercially-purchasable suite to copy Blu-ray movies will be available by the end of the year.

However, Blu-ray blanks—especially dual-layer ones—are still so costly right now ($40+ for a writable) that it's not financially feasible for people to be duping their own movies. You know, unless you really enjoy the blank disc look over the professionally done Blu-ray disc with the proper case and materials. Weirdo. [Golem via Inquirer]

[Bizi Jones]

finally...after a july mail in rebate, 4 month later do my 5 free bds arrive
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8417/bd5ux7.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bd5ux7.jpg)

:mrgreen:


spiderman trilogy this week too 0X

[ae86_16v]

^ Yeah, I am still waiting for my 5 movies. It's been about it a month or so. Damn, 4 month wait. :( My free HD DVDs came pretty fast, I think about 1 month to 6 weeks or so. Not too bad.

[ae86_16v]

Sony's CEO calling War a "Stalemate":

Things have been a bit rough for Blu-ray lately. Those massive price cuts gave HD DVD a boost in market share and Paramount's abrupt departure was certainly a tad, shall we say, embarrassing.

So we wonder, just what does Sony's boss, and figure-head of the smack-talking Blu-ray Disc Association, have to say about the state of the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war? It's a "stalemate," according to Sir Howard Stringer.

He goes on to downplay the winner as nothing more than a matter of prestige while lamenting the lack of a unified standard. A far cry from the BDA's boastful claim of victory just 11 months ago.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/09/sonys-stringer-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-a-stalemate/

[Bizi Jones]

CEOs say "doom-n-gloom" things all the time in order to temper expectations for the quarterly financial statements. It helps the stock price. If you say wow, things are tough right now and your quarterly report is solid, your stock rises. If you say things are fantastic right now, but your quarterly is "only" solid, your stock wallows (or even falls). CEOs have to temper their remarks to set realistic (read as: low) expectations for the upcoming quarterlies. Their first priority is to the stockholder. If HD DVD were to completely die today I guarantee that Stringer would say tomorrow: "Well, yes, it's a great victory, BUT we still have a lot of work ahead of us. Even though we've won the high-def format war we still need to make inroads into sDVD sales, blah, blah, blah." And then in the boardroom he'd be giving high-fives to everyone and doing somersaults.

[ae86_16v]

^ I guess a lot changed in the past week. :?:

CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XI: Stringer's flip-flop edition

Merely days after Sony's Howard Stringer was scrutinized for calling the format war a "stalemate (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/09/sonys-stringer-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-a-stalemate/) ," the exec has apparently decided to tweak his tone a bit. In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Stringer was quoted as saying that Blu-ray had "the momentum and the scale" it needed to eventually reign victorious over its rival.

Additionally, he noted that Blu-ray was "just a better format," and he even went so far as to tout BD's excellent security features, which were effectively subverted (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/07/slysofts-latest-anydvd-beta-cracks-bd/) just weeks ago after being hailed as practically impenetrable (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/10/analyst-claims-bd-is-impenetrable-for-ten-years-hackers-chuckl/) .

Furthermore, he didn't seem worried over the new, lower prices associated with standalone HD DVD players, but who knows, maybe he'll be singing a different tune next week.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/22/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-part-xi-stringers-flip-flop-edition/

Here's Toshiba's response too:

Although one has to consider Toshiba's obvious bias (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/06/toshibas-cedia-booth-tour/) in the format war, we still can't quite wrap our heads around what Mike Eves is trying to get at here. Reportedly, the company's retail marketing executive for its consumer products division told Pocket-Lint that the "HD DVD / Blu-ray battle is like petrol versus diesel at the pumps," and somewhat clarified his thoughts by asserting that "both would probably exist together rather than a single format winning out."

Of course, that last statement doesn't deviate too far from the sentiments issued by Sony's Howard Stringer just days ago (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&safe=off&lr=lang_en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=site:engadgethd.com+toshiba+booth&spell=1), and while he couldn't be coerced into admitting whether or not combo players were a good thing, another spokesman did state that he wasn't keen on having two units under his TV.

Whatever the case, we can't imagine that having two formats for the duration would be a boon for consumers, but regrettably, we're hardly any closer to seeing a clear-cut winner today than we were on the day these two left the gates.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/22/toshibas-mike-eves-wackily-compares-format-war-to-fuel/

[RC45]

Just choose Blu-Ray already - there is more choice in the Blu-Ray isle at Blockbuster, BestBuy and Fry's.

[5vz-fe]

Got my PS3 stateside during thanksgiving weekend @ Walmart. Now I have do the mail-in rebate thingy. But 4 months seems kinda long :(

[Bizi Jones]

^^
any games/movies?

best place to get bds from T.O. is from amazon.com, just wait till they have another B1G1 free sale, or some such, last one was on the 23 and you'll quickly build up a collection...

[Bizi Jones]

WARNER BROS. is now Blu-ray EXCLUSIVE...
http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,1700383,00.html


kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkrrrrrrrrrrrrplow....war over

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :drunk:

[graywolf624]

There are plenty of developers that have already stated that the extra space on a BR disc is being used to speed up load times to get around bottlenecks in the hardware.
Something just sounds wrong about that.

Is memory hardware setup so poor that media is now a faster read?