Lexus F: AMG and M Rival from Japan

[blue8]

from Leftlane News

Lexus to launch "F" series to rival AMG, M
lexus-f.jpg

Lexus will launch a new high-performance lineup beginning in 2007, according to dealer sources cited by Automotive News. The series will compete with BMW's "M" line and Mercedes' AMG. The automaker has filed for a trademark on the name "IS-F," which is believed to be the name for the company's 425 horsepower IS sedan, previously referred to as the IS 500.

The IS-F will be unveiled in January at the Detroit auto show and go on sale in December 2007. Other "F" models will surely be added in the following months, including a GS-F and an IS-F coupe.

The company also filed for a trademark on a new "F" logo (pictured). The logo features a stylized letter similar to that of the Lexus logo.

-- i just hope Lexus turns out to be a real competitor unlike (sorry) the V-series from Cadillac :)

[Chaos in 1983!]

Cool! I'm eager to see the IS perform as good as it looks, and with 425hp I think it will!

[dutchmasterflex]

It's about time.. Hopefully they're more like BMW's M than MB's AMG...

[ViperASR]

I think they will be more like AMG than the M-devision.
I cant wait to see/drive the new IS-F though, im a big fan of the IS300. Its a nice family car that can lift its skirt when it wants to.

[gobs3z]

I Know what he F Stands for!!!!! FAGS!!!!

I must commend you on your originality and ignorance. :roll:

It will be a great car, Toyota is one of those companies that can basically achieve anything they want (mind you their finances have no match). Too bad they cannot achieve an F1 victory. :P

[TopGearNL]

Mmm interesting

[martin100]

I don´t really think it´ll be a competition for AMG and esp. not for the M cars 8)

[dutchmasterflex]

I don´t really think it´ll be a competition for AMG and esp. not for the M cars 8)


Did you think that when Toyota initially launched Lexus to compete with the Euro Luxury division?

Sure they might not perform to your standards of AMG or M Power, but I'm sure this will be a successful business move for them.

[McLaren4eVa]

I actually prefer the new IS over the 3 series and the c klasse. Love the looks so 425BHP would be very welcome.

[davide]

Sure it got the power, does it handle?

[ae86_16v]

Exactly. . . I will believe it after I see it. Right now, all I give credit to Lexus is for the quality cars they build, not exactly sporty cars. And stuffing a big ass engine into a car doesn't automatically make it sporty. You still have to worry about suspension, chassis, etc, etc.

That said, I hope this won't be a half-ass effort from Toyota/Lexus. Competition is always good :D.

[McLaren4eVa]

Hang on this is the IS so it's up against the M3 and The RS4, damn it has to be the RS4 for me.

[HeilSvenska]

Well - it's been tested at the Ring for a while... so I guess it won't be bad either


But everyone tests at Nürburgring now. So it doesn't guarantee anything.

[Ghostbat]

i have no doubt that Lexus will continue to produce the most boring cars on the planet....whether they have "F" on them or not...

Wow, I actually agree with you for once :)

[TNT]

I think its about time they put forth an effort. They have always been trying to fight them on the luxo front but they need to fight them on the speed front. which they are going to to now. but i really wonder who ok'ed F for the in-house speed brand. :roll: what is it for FAST?

[vexor]

http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/Lexus/IS/is_f.jpg

teaser pic of the new "F" series

[ferrarif1fan89]

looks promising. it'll look good in black.

[dutchmasterflex]

Wow.. they really kept those exhuast pipes?!

[SafirXP]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

[Ghostbat]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll: :?:

Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt.

[Shinigami]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...
And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say...

Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list.
Rank - Company name - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $)
2 - DaimlerChrysler - 7 - 186,106
3 - Toyota Motor - 8 - 185,805
9 - BMW - 78 - 57,973

When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll:

[blue8]

revenues don't say anything about a car's performance

[Ghostbat]

revenues don't say anything about a car's performance

Says a lot of financial backing..

[McLaren4eVa]

Wow.. they really kept those exhuast pipes?!

I know, they're disgusting, well i guess when i see one in the flesh i'll change my mind.

[ae86_16v]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...
And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say...

Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list.
Rank - Company name - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $)
2 - DaimlerChrysler - 7 - 186,106
3 - Toyota Motor - 8 - 185,805
9 - BMW - 78 - 57,973

When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll:

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll: :?:

Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt.

Agreed. . . I don't know how you could say MB/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing? I am a BMW fan, but even I am willing to admit that AMG w/ the partnership with McLaren definitely has more expertise and financial backing than the famed Motorsport Division.

Finances definitely add to the equation, but like before with the N-ring bit/comment, it doesn't guarantee anything.

With that said, Toyota had made some good sports cars back in the days so we will see what happens here.

[Ghostbat]

^
But the M-division bought over the old AMG boss so now they have som expertise :wink:

[dutchmasterflex]

I just hope those dual-dual exhausts do not become a signature styling cue for all of the F cars..

[gobs3z]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...
And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say...

Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list.
Rank - Company name - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $)
2 - DaimlerChrysler - 7 - 186,106
3 - Toyota Motor - 8 - 185,805
9 - BMW - 78 - 57,973

When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll:

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll: :?:

Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt.

Agreed. . . I don't know how you could say MB/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing? I am a BMW fan, but even I am willing to admit that AMG w/ the partnership with McLaren definitely has more expertise and financial backing than the famed Motorsport Division.

Finances definitely add to the equation, but like before with the N-ring bit/comment, it doesn't guarantee anything.

With that said, Toyota had made some good sports cars back in the days so we will see what happens here.

I think you're all misunderstanding the issue here. Money has nothing to do with it. They all have the financial backing they need, but they all have different views on what their sport division should be making. M does make the best driver oriented car, it is easily the most extreme in its class in terms of track readiness. They shoot for having the best handling drivers car. AMG doesn't have they same ideology. They put amazing engines in super saloons but they don't pure power and good handling, compared to the great handling of the BMWs. Audi goes for a great handling car that always keeps you in the safe zone by not totally getting rid of understeer. Point: They all can make the best handling cars in the world, but they choose not to. They choose to make a car based on their ideologies which are all different, and you have to appreciate that we have this amount of variation, and now we have another one joining the group and i can't wait to see how it stirs up the competition.

[rave426]

I think the exhaust are a nice addition to make it look different. In all means....exhaust pipes alone shouldl not turn a buyer away. At least we know Toyota didnt carry the camara to Italy or Germany and take snapshots of exhaust configurations and go back home and copy and paste them, like some Jap automakers have done before with various styling cues.

Yay For Toyota, for doing something different and not boring. They may be ugly, but they aint boring.

Anyway. I think the car is going to be better than expected. Maybe not quite as good as the new M3, because something tells me its gonna be a heavyweight, nevertheless, it should be pretty close.

Sure many cars or tested on the ring, but we also gotta remember Japanese cars that are tested on the Ring are usually damn good. ...........Skyline.........NSX..........STI....... ..EVO. Yeah......I think it will be a very good car.

[Shinigami]

^
But the M-division bought over the old AMG boss so now they have som expertise :wink:
And AMG brought in the guy (forgot his name) from Porsche, who helped Porsche developed the Carrera GT engine, and then went on the help AMG develop the 63 engine.

Also, I think AMG is beginning to accept the fact that they need to also satisfy demands which are met by BMW's M division. Things such as handling, as has been proven by recent changes from AMG with testing on the Nurburgring, creating the 030 Performance Package (also known as the Nurburgring package) that includes stiffer springs, larger brakes etc...

Admittedly, AMG's philosophy is very different from M's, but that's what makes the two car companies so special. They cater for different needs.

[chest3r]

Those exhaust are, at least, weird. But even worse are those holes in the bumper :?

[dutchmasterflex]

Yeah.. it better go like stink with an ugly ass like that!

[HeilSvenska]

Yeah.. it better go like stink with an ugly ass like that!


No! If it's fast, you'll have to look at its ugly ass as it passes you by.
It should be slow so you'll never see the exhaust layout.

[blue8]

From Autoblog:
Whoops! Lexus accidentally releases images of IS-F on web

We're almost dead certain that Lexus will unveil the IS-F, a very high-performance version of its IS-Series sedan, in Detroit next week. Regardless of whether it does or not, we've been treated to a sneak preview of the car thanks to an online advertisement that's been released revealing the entire car, albeit in low resolution. The ad tells us the car will have 400+ horsepower from a 5.0-liter V8 and reach 60 mph in under five seconds. This is certainly the most performance-oriented Lexus vehicle to touch rubber to road, and we're eager to find out if Lexus could suppress it's natural inclination to dampen this car to death.

http://m.2mdn.net/1044889/ISF_synonym_336x280_v2.swf?clickTag=http%3A//ad.doubleclick.net/click%253Bh%3Dv8/34d0/3/0/%252a/b%253B65416465%253B0-0%253B0%253B15278569%253B4252-336/280%253B19545613/19563507/1%253B%253B%257Esscs%253D%253fhttp%3A//www.lexus.com/fcv/is_f.html

[HeilSvenska]

Here. Let me clean up that mess a bit.

http://m.2mdn.net/1044889/ISF_synonym_336x280_v2.swf

Looks alright, but it will not change what I think about Lexus.

[McLaren4eVa]

Your right, the IS is beautiful but for me the RS4 is simply better, although my mind could change after a couple of full-on reviews. Oh and i need to hear the noise.

[TopGearNL]

Yep finally a new rival! :D

Still I'd take the RS4 over it!

[Stoopie]

Curious for it :)

[rave426]

Although we know it probably wont be as good as the RS4....we really dont now yet.

Lets not judge it just yet...........Give ole Lex a chance.

[Just_me]

Lexus today unveiled the IS-F luxury sedan at the 2007 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The all-new 2008 IS-F will target the BMW M3 and Audi RS4, delivering more than 400 horsepower and 350 ft.-lbs. of torque from a 5.0-liter V8 engine. It will eventually be offered as a two-door coupe, as well.

Much of the development of the new IS-F took place at Fuji Speedway and the Higashi-Fuji Technical Center in Japan. The IS-F is based on the rear-wheel-drive Lexus IS, which is equipped with a double-wishbone front and multi-link rear suspension. The IS-F engine is mated to the world’s first eight-speed "direct sport-shift" transmission. A new torque-converter lock-up control was developed that allows for a direct, crisp gear change through the constant lock-up of the torque converter in second through eighth gears.

In Drive mode, the IS-F transmission performs smoothly, and the torque converter allows for quick 0-60 acceleration in less than 4.9 seconds. The transmission also features a manual mode operated via a pair of paddles. Downshifts are accompanied by automated throttle blips to match engine RPM to vehicle speed. Heavy-duty Brembo brakes with 14.2-inch discs and six-piston calipers ensure all the power is kept under control. The IS-F features custom-designed 19-inch forged alloy wheels as standard.

http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/1-2008-lexus-is-f.jpg
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/3-2008-lexus-is-f.jpg
http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/2-2008-lexus-is-f.jpg

[McLaren4eVa]

The bonnet is hideous, how much size is that engine taking i guess the RS4 beats it in the looks department now just have to see a performance review to compare the rest.

[dutchmasterflex]

Hmm.. Seems they are leaning towards more of an AMG type of luxury sports car.

I wonder just how great that 8 speed gearbox is... but look at that hood! must be one hell of an engine under that beefed up bonnet.

Looking forward to a 2 door IS, but I they really should get a proper manual transmission in there.

[inso]

torq converter is not a problem, since it is new kind of, quickly locking. Inside it looks ok, except the center console, looks like 100e stereosets..

[chest3r]

Wow!! I never expected such an aggressive car from Lexus. I think it will look even more aggressive than the M3 and RS4. It seems so low in the pics... looks like a photoshop :D

The bonnet look ugly but I loved the rest of the car. What about pics from the rear ?? I think I will have to get used to the exhaust :D

[TopGearNL]

Looks very aggresive but its not a beauty, bonnet is ugly.. I love the specs though! :D

[inso]

http://news.windingroad.com/body-stylesmarket-segment/sedans/naias-lexus-takes-wraps-off-is-f-new-performance-division/

most complete details. OFF setting for nannying is +++

[Z3uS]

Nice to see other automakers do special versions of their cars.

[Svensson]

Very interesting to see how this turns out, although I'm not so sure about the auto-box compared to the manual gearboxes of its biggest rivals...

Btw, Z3uS... that's an amazing .gif you've got there :shock::P

[5vz-fe]

Why do they make the car look like a riced out IS350?...Like kids that don't have money for proper suspension.

[TopGearNL]

/\/\ :mrgreen:

[skituner]

is an 8 speed gearbox really needed?

[5vz-fe]

is an 8 speed gearbox really needed?

Most likely not!! It clearly states the intention of the car, just for touring mostly where the transmission is in drive for silky smooth ride. I seriously don't see the need for them to test that @ the ring.

[ae86_16v]

but does it park itself?

Haha, shoot who cars about that. Did you see that thing on the LS? The computer needs 7 feet of extra space to park it in. Come on now, if you, the driver, can not park it in with 7 feet of extra space, I don't think you should have a driver's license.

[Vansquish]

There's a picture with what appears to be the new LF-A or whatever they're calling the production version of their new front-engined supercar. It's certainly not the same as the LF-A concept from a couple of years ago, as it has quarter-windows and a much more angular front end.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1992/lexusisf20081280x960walbc5.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lexusisf20081280x960walbc5.jpg)

[chest3r]

^^ It looks awesome !! It's gonna be the new Supra, right ?

[GT-Richard]

i have no doubt that Lexus will continue to produce the most boring cars on the planet....whether they have "F" on them or not...

... says the man driving an Audi :roll:

let´s wait and see ppl!

[gobs3z]

http://i17.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/82/b8/150d_12.JPG

Thats not even close to a funny joke since BMW has no place to advertise something so wrong. Attack Mercedes or Audi, but attacking Lexus is a mistake since it's common sense that they have the best customer service, warranty and reliability out of all manufacturers. Thats one thing they are amazing at.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/carreviews/03/01/cr_reliability/index.html

[EnzoLover]

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[Ghostbat]

Hate those dials with some figures almost upside down. Maybe it's just me missing the point but it seems smarter to have them all horisontal.

I also think it's sad that its looks riced from factory. Nevertheless it will propably a very good car but with no soul.

[5vz-fe]

It looks like it will have very little suspension travel

[gobs3z]

[quote=bmw06m6]

Thats not even close to a funny joke since BMW has no place to advertise something so wrong. Attack Mercedes or Audi, but attacking Lexus is a mistake since it's common sense that they have the best customer service, warranty and reliability out of all manufacturers. Thats one thing they are amazing at.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/carreviews/03/01/cr_reliability/index.html

Oh Yeah I forgot Consumer Reports IS GOD!

I was just giving an example, but since you're naive and stubborn.

IS300 compared to 3 series
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0112_lexus_is300/

I would be tempted to buy the Lexus instead of the BMW partly because I enjoyed it so much and partly because it offers the additional benefits of Lexus quality and Lexus service and Lexus reliability."


Review of an ES350
http://www.caranddriver.com/cartrims/2007-lexus-es/lexus_es350.html

HIGHS
Lexus quality interior, Lexus quality craftsmanship, Lexus quality ride and comfort, Lexus quality quality.

And finally heres a good one for ya.
http://www.carpages.co.uk/lexus/lexus_jd_power_winner_25_10_02.asp

Lexus Quality Overcomes German National BiasPublished: October 2002
IS200 Overall Winner of First German J.D. Power Survey
Toyota Voted Best German People’s Car
The Lexus IS200 has been voted top car in the first customer satisfaction survey of Germany's car owners by market research firm J.D. Power. The 132-car survey found that even the Germans believe the Lexus is better than their own home grown prestige makes and gave the baby Lexus a top score of 86 per cent.

[blue8]

i have nothing against Lexus (i think they're good) but that ad is witty. on the IS-F, it does look aggressive and, for me, looks like it was just tuned up like pimp my ride or something. not much subtlety like its German rivals... hopefully it makes up for it in performance

[gobs3z]

Oh so Consumer Reports, CNN, JD Power, Car and Driver and Lexus are God, I forgot. Its a damn economy car, that is all it ever will be.

I thougt we were talking quality, reliability, and warranty, when did i mention whether or not it was an economy car? You sound like your slightly intimidated by Lexus, but I could care less if you're completely biased towards German cars, it's your loss.

[gobs3z]

Oh so Consumer Reports, CNN, JD Power, Car and Driver and Lexus are God, I forgot. Its a damn economy car, that is all it ever will be.

I thougt we were talking quality, reliability, and warranty, when did i mention whether or not it was an economy car? You sound like your slightly intimidated by Lexus, but I could care less if you're completely biased towards German cars, it's your loss.

What's wrong with Italian or British Cars?

Nothing at all is wrong with Italian and British cars, i never said that did i? Did you purposely ignore to look at my AMV8 signature. I'm also going to try to visit the Ferrari/Pagani/Lambo factories while i'm in Italy this semester. I was just attacking BMW's extremely false advertisement, why would you defend something that isn't true? (you have yet to prove me wrong)

[5vz-fe]

I think it is widely accepted that Lexus is a mid to full luxury car (depending on models).

[ae86_16v]

Oh so Consumer Reports, CNN, JD Power, Car and Driver and Lexus are God, I forgot. Its a damn economy car, that is all it ever will be.

Clearly you have not driven a Lexus from say 2001 or 2002 and up. Those cars have improve a lot since the early 90s and I doubt anybody will call them "economy cars". In fact, of the same vintage, I would say a 2002 IS300 probably has the best interior quality of all the German brands, 3er, C-Class, maybe with the exception of the A4. The A4's interior quality is probably the only one that stands out a bit above the other two competitors from German.

With that said, the 3 Series still drives better than the IS. But if you want quality and comfort, you can't deny Lexus did a good job there. Personal experience anyways.

And in terms of customer service, which dealership gets you tea while they get your oil filter for you? Never happened once at Audi or BMW, but happened twice at Lexus. I would not even get service at BMW unless I drive up in my M3. What kind of bullshit is that? (But that is an extreme case that happened once in my 4Runner.)

[ae86_16v]

Oh so Consumer Reports, CNN, JD Power, Car and Driver and Lexus are God, I forgot. Its a damn economy car, that is all it ever will be.

Clearly you have not driven a Lexus from say 2001 or 2002 and up. Those cars have improve a lot since the early 90s and I doubt anybody will call them "economy cars". In fact, of the same vintage, I would say a 2002 IS300 probably has the best interior quality of all the German brands, 3er, C-Class, maybe with the exception of the A4. The A4's interior quality is probably the only one that stands out a bit above the other two competitors from German.

With that said, the 3 Series still drives better than the IS. But if you want quality and comfort, you can't deny Lexus did a good job there. Personal experience anyways.

And in terms of customer service, which dealership gets you tea while they get your oil filter for you? Never happened once at Audi or BMW, but happened twice at Lexus. I would not even get service at BMW unless I drive up in my M3. What kind of bullshit is that? (But that is an extreme case that happened once in my 4Runner.)

Well the joke behind the ad is that sure anybody can give you free tea or coffee, (ha I get breakfast), but you don't choke on it when you get the bill it was an ad for BMW Ultimate Service that you won't get raped on your're car in parts and service because its free.

No, but I was pointing out that it was nice of them to do it.

Come on now, you really believe in that Free Service thing? I suppose an free oil change every 15k miles is okay? And don't tell me that the computer has computed that because of my driving behavior I only need a oil change every 15k.

That means through the life of free service, you would get 2 Free Oil Changes, maybe 3 at the most. Same with BMW's Lifetime Oil in the tranny and differential. If you do not plan on keeping your car for over 100k miles, that is fine because it will last till 100k. But I do, and I change my oil every 5k even with Synthetic and tranny and diff every 50k. I do not feel like paying for a new Tranny of Differential.

Bean counters came out with that Free Service program.

Don't believe me? Pick up any issue of Roundel and read the Tech Talk. Or just ask our resident BMW mechanic Z.

By the way, the oil filter was 10 bucks for the IS300.

p.s. Sorry for jacking the thread.

[HeilSvenska]

You know what? The bodykit looks really cheap. Especially the vent behind the front wheels.