Help... Can't decide between the Evo IX SE and the WRX STI..

[tuffguy]

Evo IX SE (http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060807.002/country/jcf/Mitsubishi/2006-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-special-edition) - What I'm most likely going to get. - first mod (http://www.vishnutuning.com/evoIX_Subzero_v380.htm)

spec comparison (http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/default.aspx?c=0&n=3&i=0&tb=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=1&v=t101990&v=t102236)

photo comparison (http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/photocompare.aspx?c=0&n=3&i=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt1&v=t101990&v=t102236)

i can get both cars for $30k.

i love the way the evo looks
i hate the way the sti looks
on the evo, you can take the spoiler off and put it back on later
on the sti, you have to swap trunks and the spoiler is gone
evo has no low end power
sti has more low end power
turbo kicks in harder in evo
turbo kicks in smoother in sti
evo feels more accurate
sti feels more planted
evo seats and steering wheel are nicer
sti gauges and console are nicer
evo shifter is better
sti's blue interior is nasty

[MartijnGizmo]

Why drive around in a car that you hate the looks of?

[ViperASR]

If it was me walking toward a dealer with my own money, i would have to get the STI for a few reasons
Subaru badge is more respectable then a mitsu
Smoother turbo is better for around town
I dont think it looks horrible, just not great
Driver controlled Diff
I like the interior
Subaru reliability, the mitsu would last a month

However, if you broaden your horizons a bit and look at other cars in the 30k range there is alot to choose from, but between these two, it would have to be the STI. More user and everyday friendly, and can still be driven like your pants are on fire! :twisted:

[tuffguy]

Why drive around in a car that you hate the looks of?
Because the engine has more low end torque and is easier to drive slowly, the gauges/console are nicer, and the suspension is softer.
Subaru badge is more respectable then a mitsu
Smoother turbo is better for around town
I dont think it looks horrible, just not great
Driver controlled Diff
I like the interior
Subaru reliability, the mitsu would last a month
agree, except when it comes to the evo
agree
couldn't really feel the difference, evo feels more accurate
i like the interior, hate the blue and the cheap seats
4G63's been around forever, it's very reliable.

[nthfinity]

you're in California?
i dont see why you wouldn't choose a Caddy CTS V (used) a 2001-2004 C5 Z06) under 30,000) a 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra (23-28000)

sure, the rally cars are nice, but utterly poinless in such a climate.

[tuffguy]

I'm not getting them to drive in snow. :P I want them because they make lots of power and they have AWD which means that they grip and go. And I don't want a used car.

check out this clip - skip to 1:15

[novass]

They are releasing a limited edition STi without leather seats and no wing plus some other small extras.

[saadie]

if i were you ... i'd wait for the EVO X .....
but if I wanted a car soon i'd take the WRX ;)

[nthfinity]

I'm not getting them to drive in snow. :P I want them because they make lots of power and they have AWD which means that they grip and go. And I don't want a used car.

check out this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJFDHwFfBdM) - skip to 1:15

lots of power? 300 hp is ok; but far from "lots" of power.

I've yet to see any test that shows that AWD actually grips more then RWD, besides in adverse conditions.

if you dont want a used car, thats just fine.... but; in my opinion, i wouldn't buy either new anyway; let alone; when i can spend that much, and actually go fast ;)

[tuffguy]

They are releasing a limited edition STi without leather seats and no wing plus some other small extras.
I saw the STI Limiteds. They're all spoken for. They're nice. Leather seats, sunroof, small spoiler, front lip. But they were all pre-ordered.
lots of power? 300 hp is ok; but far from "lots" of power.

I've yet to see any test that shows that AWD actually grips more then RWD, besides in adverse conditions.
A simple reflash will give you 100hp on the new Evo IXs. When the turbo fully kicks in at 3500rpm, it feels like all 4 tires are gonna break loose. For $2k you can get into the low 12s.

For ~$30k, there's no new car that offers that much performance.

I like the BMW 335i, but costs $47k the way that I want it. :(

[5vz-fe]

What about the Legacy Spec B?

[tuffguy]

I saw it yesterday and didn't really like it...

[RC45]

And I don't want a used car.


Of course not - you want to experience the great feeling of 45% depreciation yourself.

:roll:

New car shopping for regular folks (i.e. Not independantly wealthy people who care less if a car costs $40K or $400K) is just burning up your own money.

A used car where the first buyer paid the premium and then also took the hit on taxes and depreciation makes the most sense if you have to work for every dollar in your pocket.

More so if you plan to mod a car at all...

Oh - and if these "flash to make 100hp" Evos are so easy, why don't we see more of them on the freeways? ;)

[nthfinity]

More so if you plan to mod a car at all...

Oh - and if these "flash to make 100hp" Evos are so easy, why don't we see more of them on the freeways?


on NOISAc and whatever forums.... so many claim a chip mod will do such things; but i have yet to see any real truth behind it except for a true engine tune mapping on a dyno.... even then, even with turbocharged engines, 100 seems unlikely.

so lets say that it is true, and you are running the stock turbo unit, stock injectors, stock fuel pump.... you will be running so lean; and damage the engine.... your turbo cracks from the additional heat it wasn't designed for, you starve your engine of fuel...

12 seconds..... i know of only a few 12 second evos, and one 11 second car... and to reach 12; those guys have put a lot more in them then an engine tune... all added up, for 12 seconds every day, hes much closer to 4,000 then 30,000

but hey, if you want a new car that is slower,and pointless in such local condionts... by all means :P

[Evo]

Get and EVO..

take it from me.. I sold mine less than a week ago and I still am kicking my self for doing so.. If I had to do it all over again I would still get an Evo over an STI anyway.. I drove both.. Love the STI sound but it feels much softter and well it's not an EVO..

Evo power all the way.

[5vz-fe]

http://www.vishnutuning.com/evo_Stage1_v390.htm

Definitely not just a chip

[tuffguy]

RC45 - You don't want a used Evo/WRX/STI. People don't buy those cars to drive them softly. Clutch is probably gone, gears are shot, etc. You never know. I can pay $30k for a new Evo, or $23k for a 3yo used up one. Tough choice. :P

nthfinity - You can chip the STIs as well as the Evo 8s, but they don't see as much gain as the Evo 9s with MIVEC. It makes a huge difference. So much so that people are traing in 7s/8s for 9s. As for doing low 12s, it only takes ~$2k. They do low 13s stock - vishnu (http://www.vishnutuning.com/evoIX_Stage1_v400.htm), RnR (http://rnrracing.com/cgi-bin/ccp5/cp-app.pl?urnd=8932275&rrc=N&pg=cat&ref=Lancer), buschur (http://www.buschurracing.com/evo9-stage0.htm)

Evo - Why'd you trade it in, what did you trade it in for, and which Evo did you have?

[Skaala]

I'd take the EVO any day over the STi

[tuffguy]

http://www.vishnutuning.com/evo_Stage1_v390.htm

Definitely not just a chip
You're looking at the wrong Evo. Compare the VII/VIII with the IX. This is what I'm talking about:

http://www.vishnutuning.com/evoIX_Subzero_v380.htm

This is as far as I'd mod:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/evoIX_Stage1_v400.htm

[nthfinity]

there is a difference between mid-low 13 and high 12... even so.... after driving Subies, and Evo's... the brick wall of air hits right around 100, and everything starts fading away... 110 for the evo, and 115-120 for the STi.

and... well, not every driver is willing to drop from 5-6k for a uber launch... again, nod to RWD.

also, I still dont believe 99% engine tune changes..... 10-15 hp if you are lucky... again, you really need a dyno to get the propper power out of it.

so 23k + clutch + gears = much less then 30k... and i guarentee you can find excellent low milage examples out there that haven't been driven how you would like to drive....

Dont get me wrong, i love the subaru STi; and have respect for the evo's performance... but after driving hi po cars.... they simply dont compare

[5vz-fe]

hmmmmmmm.....I didn't know there's such a big difference in motor between the VIII and IX.

[tuffguy]

hmmmmmmm.....I didn't know there's such a big difference in motor between the VIII and IX.
Yeah, it's so easy to get power from them that people are trading in older Evos to get IXs. That's why I want one. I drove my friend's (stock and afterwards flashed) IX and it makes a huge, huge difference.

[tuffguy]

nthfinity - I won't be launching it. I just want something that will haul ass to ~80mph, and it pulls very, very hard in 2nd and 3rd gear. I've been in fast V8s (~400hp), and they just don't feel like they pull as hard. I prefer the sensation in the Evo much more. Plus it's new and it has warranty.

[RC45]

I've been in fast V8s (~400hp), and they just don't feel like they pull as hard.

Then they were either not 400bhp - or they were in top gear and just gently cruising... ;)

A properly applied 400bhp V8 will have you "feeling it".. ;)

If want to sample some just head to H-Town and we could arrange 350bhp vs 400bhp vs 450bhp vs 500bhp vs 55bhp vs 600bhp vs 700bhp vs 800bhp vs 1000bhp vs 1200bhp V8 experiences and you will feel the progerssion ;)


I prefer the sensation in the Evo much more. Plus it's new and it has warranty.

Warranty does not apply if you start modding electronics and internals ;)

[tuffguy]

Warranty does not apply if you start modding electronics and internals ;)
I'm not touching the internals. :P It can be easily flashed back to the base map, and they sell exhausts at the dealerships.
Then they were either not 400bhp - or they were in top gear and just gently cruising... ;)

A properly applied 400bhp V8 will have you "feeling it".. ;)
NAs run out of breath up top, turbos have a different feel... That's the only way that I can explain it. It's just a feeling, I don't know if it's actually tangible.
If want to sample some just head to H-Town and we could arrange 350bhp vs 400bhp vs 450bhp vs 500bhp vs 55bhp vs 600bhp vs 700bhp vs 800bhp vs 1000bhp vs 1200bhp V8 experiences and you will feel the progerssion ;)
Let's stick to 400hp arguments, otherwise i'm gonna have to bring in the AMS Evo into the conversation. :D

[TopGearNL]

Buy a Holden-Vauxhall Monaro/ Pontiac GTO :mrgreen:

I know I would if I had the money :twisted:

[tuffguy]

I think that's it's safe... I've been following the forums for a long time, and I haven't seen any problems yet with mild. And from the dynoes that I've seen, the IXs with MIVEC seem to put down the advertised numbers. Plus I won't be modding it too much. I plan on getting a 335i next year.

[tuffguy]

It seems like the general consensus is to get the Evo. Thanks guys! :drinking:

i leave you with this - skip to 1:16

[5vz-fe]

Any modding will degrade the longetivity of the engine, turbo engine will prolly suffer more. However, IMO, the vitshnu mod is relatively light and should not do much damage.

[dingo]

Tough choice, though I would disagree about the STi having more low-down power....the Evo has a twin-scroll turbo and generally is considered to suffer from less lag.

The interior sucks on the Mitsu and I'm just more of a Subaru fan so I'd take the STi.



also, I still dont believe 99% engine tune changes..... 10-15 hp if you are lucky... again, you really need a dyno to get the propper power out of it.



if it's done properly then you can get more than 10-15hp, here is the result for my car after ~4hrs on the dyno (dotted lines before, solid lines after). There is potential for more there too....

http://www.ozcarsightings.com/temp/dyno_plot_jw.jpg

[666fast]

I myself would take the STI. I like the way it looks and it's not as stiff as an Evo> The Evo feels like a pogo stick on numpy roads. I wouldn't mind an Evo either, I just prefer the Subie. Also, Subaru is dropping the ugly "tribeca" grill.

If yo don't like the looks of the STI, get the Evo. You will look at it obviously, so why by a car if you think it's ugly? LOL

Onequestion though, are the turbos on the Evo 9's still kerploding? I read about them having a lot of problems.

Either way, you really can't go wrong with either! Have fun! LOL

[nthfinity]

nthfinity wrote:


also, I still dont believe 99% engine tune changes..... 10-15 hp if you are lucky... again, you really need a dyno to get the propper power out of it.


yes dingo, yours was done very nicely; and is proving a point too :)


if it's done properly then you can get more than 10-15hp, here is the result for my car after ~4hrs on the dyno (dotted lines before, solid lines after). There is potential for more there too....

[tuffguy]

Onequestion though, are the turbos on the Evo 9's still kerploding? I read about them having a lot of problems.
I wasn't aware that they were exploding. I've only heard about problems with the IHIs on the STIs.

[RC45]

Warranty does not apply if you start modding electronics and internals ;)
I'm not touching the internals. :P It can be easily flashed back to the base map, and they sell exhausts at the dealerships.

You must not be reading the same Mitsu forums that show many many many denied warranty claims ;)


Then they were either not 400bhp - or they were in top gear and just gently cruising... ;)

A properly applied 400bhp V8 will have you "feeling it".. ;)
NAs run out of breath up top, turbos have a different feel... That's the only way that I can explain it. It's just a feeling, I don't know if it's actually tangible.

In other words you think a 300bhp turbo 4 feels quicker than a 400bhp V8... come round for a ride and I'll change your mind :P


If want to sample some just head to H-Town and we could arrange 350bhp vs 400bhp vs 450bhp vs 500bhp vs 55bhp vs 600bhp vs 700bhp vs 800bhp vs 1000bhp vs 1200bhp V8 experiences and you will feel the progerssion ;)
Let's stick to 400hp arguments, otherwise i'm gonna have to bring in the AMS Evo into the conversation. :D
But you are just talking about 1 odd tuner car - I am talking about 10's of daily driver cars... not tuner specials.

[tuffguy]

I'll get back to you after I race my co-worker's GT500 at the Street of Willow Horsethief track. :mrgreen:

[nthfinity]

I'll get back to you after I race my co-worker's GT500 at the Street of Willow Horsethief track. :mrgreen:

while the GT500 is the best handling mustang yet.... its hard to compare 4000 lbs vs. 3000 lbs. on a track; while he will def. have the advantage on the straits, you'll be able to brake later..

anyway, this is assuming you are both of equal ability on a track...

[tuffguy]

It'll be my first time, his as well I think.

And I'm trying to push for a track that's tight and doesn't have a lot of straights. :lol:

http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/trackinformation/ThiefLg.htm

[TeflonTron]

An Evo IX will get 320-340AWP from a TBE and Reflash. They may well be officially 280-odd at the Crank, but that is widely accepted as being under-rated.

A Turboed 4-Cylinder can feel faster than a NA car, but often-times that is just the switch from off-turbo to on-turbo fooling your brain.

[novass]

@tuffguy - where in LA do you live? A friend of mine is the sales manager at Santa Monica Subaru if you have any questions, PM me and I can give you his name and number.

Also if you browse the local Evo forums, not exactly sure which one he is on, but another friend of mine owns this Evo 8
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9154/dscn1617dd8.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1617dd8.jpg)
of course that photo was taken a while ago and since then it has gone through a ton of changes. Its currently in the shop now getting methanol injection and who knows what else. That car is a fully tuned car though, suspension, brakes, about 450 whp last time I heard, who knows what it will have now. But he could help you out with where to get your Evo tuned im sure. As soon as it gets out of the shop, im gonna meet up with him and take some video and photos of it for everyone :D

[5vz-fe]

Yep, Nova, u have reconfirmed to me that the EVO looks much better than the Sti

[tuffguy]

novass - I'm near Santa Monica & Sawtelle. I went to SM Subaru a couple of days ago.

While I like the engine, the sound it makes, and the dashboard/gauges, I have a couple of problems with it. The exterior is tolerable in crystal gray or steel gray, so I could live with that. There's 2 big problems. The first is the spoiler. I can't just unbolt it and then bolt it back for track use. I'd have to swap trunks with a WRX, and they want $350 for that. Secondly, the seats are horrible, and the blue cloth inserts are loose. Oh, and then there's the part of the interior is blue.

I really want to like the STI because it has more low end and it sounds really good with an exhaust. I just hate everything else about it.

On the Evo, the only thing that I don't like is the lack of bottom end power. The gauges are ok, but not as nice as the STIs. And the seats are sooooo comfortable.

[novass]

I know what you mean about the look of the STi both inside and out. I thought about getting one some time ago but after driving it for a little while decided against it basically for the interior and comfort. Of course, you may be able to get the seats restitched for very little or just buy some used sporty racing seats. The spoiler would definitely have to go though, permanently, on both cars IMO.

As far as the Evo goes, I do like the look better than the Subie but its been so long since I have been in a stock Evo or STi that I cant really remember what they are like. Just go with your gut feeling I guess.

[tuffguy]

I'm gonna try to see if any of the dealerships in OC have any STI Limiteds. If they do, I'll probably get that. I really hope that I can find one in Pearl White.

http://www.subaru.com/sub/misc/2007/sti/index.html
(Click on 'Civilized, not compromised' and check out the features)

[evoWalo]

Take it from someone who drives one, get an Evo. It's a good car. :) I read a few days ago Subaru's redoing the front of the Impreza for it's 07 or 08 update so if you're willing you may want ot wait a bit.

[Evo]

Evo - Why'd you trade it in, what did you trade it in for, and which Evo did you have?


I had an EVO 7 for the past 4 years tuned it to 440 HP with no problems at all.

I traded it in not because I hated the car just because I needed the money to move a throught a very long list of cars I wish to own before I die.

I really see my self owning another Evo in couple of years maybe before and this time I'm getting an Evo 6 or if I was lucky an Evo 6.5 T.M.

[SilviaEvo]

Evo..... i hate pig nosed STi's. the last ones were brilliant looking though.

[oscargarza88]

well i have a o6 sti, so obviouslly im gonna go for the sti.
Ive had the car since about april and there is not one thing i dont love about it.
Yea mayb the evo looks more "agressive" or "better", and as far as i know (havent driven an evo), it is more harcore. The sti is easier to love with everyday, softer suspension than evo, better interior, more low end power...
After all as many people have said u can go wrong with either one, u will love both. good luck deciding.

[5vz-fe]

It's nice to see mutual respect between EVO and STi owners. This is something VW and Honda forum ppl has to start learning :mrgreen:

[fsandys]

It's nice to see mutual respect between EVO and STi owners. This is something VW and Honda forum ppl has to start learning :mrgreen:

You've got a point there, as soon as I see a topic with the STI and Evo mentioned in the same title I expect an argument!

But this has (for the most part) been a different thread! :D


Good on you guys!

[RC45]

It's nice to see mutual respect between EVO and STi owners. This is something VW and Honda forum ppl has to start learning :mrgreen:

Could this be because they both suck equally bad maybe? ;) I dunoo - just asking :P ;)

[tuffguy]

http://www.technogeeky.com/pub/Videos/image044.jpg

[novass]

Did someone buy an Evo? :D

[dingo]

It's nice to see mutual respect between EVO and STi owners. This is something VW and Honda forum ppl has to start learning :mrgreen:

Could this be because they both suck equally bad maybe? ;) I dunoo - just asking :P ;)

got it in one!

[Evo]

Some one got an Evo.. Congragulations if that is yours.. :mrgreen:

[TopGearNL]

Thats a very nice EVO!! :D

What specs ??? :mrgreen:

Oh and Congrats :!:

[tuffguy]

Did someone buy an Evo? :D
Some one got an Evo.. Congragulations if that is yours.. :mrgreen:
Thats a very nice EVO!! :D

What specs ??? :mrgreen:

Oh and Congrats :!:
Thanks guys. :D

Specs (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2006&make=Mitsubishi&model=Lancer&trimid=102236#trimsel)

^ Mine differs because it has

1) Aluminum roof
2) Lighter BBS rims
3) Font airdam extension that reduces front end lift
4) HIDs
5) Red stitched Recaros

First mod is to take that spoiler off. Can't see jack behind me.

[TopGearNL]

MMM very nice, I am so jealous but at the same time I wish it to a fellow carmaniac !!

Why would you want to take the spoiler off, I mean you are going to leave everyone behind, thats a fact mrgreen:

What did you pay, any discount hehe :twisted: ?? :

[tuffguy]

I can't see the cars behind me very easily, so it's hard to spot the cops. It has to come off. :P

I got a very, very good price. $4k under sticker price. I also got 30% off ALL parts and service as long as I own my car. :mrgreen:

[5vz-fe]

You know u need to provide the usual prove right Tuff? buf unofficially, Congrats

[tuffguy]

Yeah, I know. I need to get a camera. I can do it with my ghetto phone camera if it's urgent.

[5vz-fe]

I got a very, very good price. That's all that I can say. I also have 30% off ALL parts and service as long as I own my car.

Wow, that's sounded like a deal that is quite hard to turn down.......

[tuffguy]

Dang, you replied quick. I didn't even have time to edit my post!