Chevy fans--Small Block Performance Engine Question!

[sickx]

For those SBC fans out there, if you were to build a motor for a '67 Camaro (or use a performance crate), what would it have (or which crate would it be)? Your budget is less than $10,000 (USD), including all accessories.

[SilverPhoenix]

GMPP LS6 then I'm done

[sickx]

Any idea of the total damage, including wiring harnesses, and integration issues? (Motor mounts, etc)?

[SilverPhoenix]

what do you mean damage?

[graywolf624]

LS1 and t-56 out of a 4th gen like a 2002.

Engine and tranny would run you about 3500. Figure about 1000 for electrical and another 2000 or so for install You could also go for the LS6.

There are kits sold for the tranny mount and engine mounts. Run about 250 dollars.

I am working on the same for my 88.

[Kangaroo Boy]

SB yeah,I think the best engine would be the LS1 Gen 3.Thats proably the best thing you could get.

[SilverPhoenix]

LS1 and t-56 out of a 4th gen like a 2002.

Engine and tranny would run you about 3500. Figure about 1000 for electrical and another 2000 or so for install You could also go for the LS6.

There are kits sold for the tranny mount and engine mounts. Run about 250 dollars.

I am working on the same for my 88.

and about a grand more in the budget you can get a supercharger lol

[graywolf624]

To clarify:
There is a guy that sells good 20000-40000 mile ls1 t56 combos for around 3500 on ebay. He lives near me(PA). They come with a year warrenty. He is reputable. I will be buying one from him this summer. A friend of mine already has purchased one from him (for a 69 no less).

My wiring is being done by a guy for 1000 dollars. It is a little shop in easly SC. Also getting the install and kit for the 88 from the same shop in Easly SC that specializes in 3rd gens. If you know where to look you can get good things cheap.

The price for a new ls1 is 7000 dollars.
You would be a fool to buy the engine new.

[SilviaS15Cwest]

My friends dad picked up a Ram Jet 502 (new) for around $7,500. He put it in a '68 Camaro. At the crank (not even broke in yet) it had like 530 hp, and 578 tq. That car is so fast. That is what I would do.

[mhn3773]

yah but that cost him alot more 7.500 tranny rear end brakes to stop the car with that much power...suspension to hold the weight of that car tires and rims in the rear to plant power

gota look at it all its not easy to change the engine of a car because u change the entire proportion of the car

i mean it easy in the sense that it can be done just gota make sure u do all the planning b4 hand and have some back up money for when things don't go right..which they wont murphys law

but my dads car does have an engine swap from a 6 to and 8..making around 600hp to the rear wheels the car has also been totaly redone but it was drivable after just then engine swap with new brakes and master cylinder

[graywolf624]

yah but that cost him alot more 7.500 tranny rear end brakes to stop the car with that much power...suspension to hold the weight of that car tires and rims in the rear to plant power

gota look at it all its not easy to change the engine of a car because u change the entire proportion of the car

i mean it easy in the sense that it can be done just gota make sure u do all the planning b4 hand and have some back up money for when things don't go right..which they wont murphys law

but my dads car does have an engine swap from a 6 to and 8..making around 600hp to the rear wheels the car has also been totaly redone but it was drivable after just then engine swap with new brakes and master cylinder
He didn't ask about suspension and brakes. That is an entirely different issue. The car would be driveable with stock suspension and brakes. Engie weight is roughly equivalent and braking he could get by if he is just dragging it.

[tkach]

get a chevy 305 build that up. go with dry sump , a sick cam , full rocker roller system on aluminum heads that are ported and polished some equal length headers would be nice too , a holly dominator intake manifold with a good four barrel carb . domed pistons nickel plated head gaskets . eletrick fuel pump . im sure you can get that little v8 to rev and make as much power as you could ever need. and less then a ls1 with more power ! with plenty left for that t-56 tranny u want. keep in mind tho you must think about what your car is going to be used for when you select the motor. this motor is light and will rev provding tons of power in a insane powerband but you could build just hp eaiser with a big block. but less revs the powerband would be diffrent . at that i like to be diffrent a little chevy v8 reving to 8 grand is diffrent.

[graywolf624]

I couldn't have just seen someone suggest the pos 305? The ls1 engine is just as light(the difference between iron and alluminum). The 305 max hp is well below the 350. While a modded 305 could make more hp then a stock 350, the parts arent as cheap as your thinking(the aftermarket pails in comparison to that of the ls1). If you are doing road racing or autox the ls1 is what you want(case closed).
Dragging it is a big block. There is a reason you dont see people running the 305 in cars. It is horrible (I know its limitations. One of the boards I am on has the individual who holds the record for fastest 305 camaro. Doesn't compare to the 350 and cost him a fortune. Different has a price). There is a reason the ls1 (and its ancestors the l98 and lt1) are used in more then a few race cars. (c5r, international race of champions, ect...)

If you want to be different at least start with a good engine. Try a turbo transam/buick grand national engine to be different. Remember, Nothing from chevy beats an ls1 or lt1 for price if your willing to shop used.

Now if only someone will loan me 27000 so I can buy the zl1 version.

[tkach]

graywolf624 the 305 isnt a bad motor. im not saying the ls1 is bad just expensive as all hell. and thats that motors problem. ls1 parts are expensive 350 305 parts much cheaper look at a jegs catalog. at that dumping a 350 or ls1 in anything isnt all that orginal. id really like to hear what that one guy did to his 305 odds are if it is slow he is a moron and cant build or tune a motor right.

[graywolf624]

His 305 car is the fastest in the world. 9 sec quarter. I didn't say it was slow. But compare that to what you can do to a 350. Also realize that car is not ony stroked but force induced. You are not going to build up a 305 to over the level of the ls1 for the same price as a used ls1 t56 combo. As I said, 3500 can get you a used one. Curtosy of idiots who cant drive camaros and the cars they wrecked.
The 305 is a steel block. It is heavy and poorly designed. The first thing people with 305s do is swap in lt1s or l98s. If you want cheaper sbc hit up an lt1. Yet again ls1 parts are cheaper as long as your willing to go used. That being said he doesn't have to really add parts other then perhaps a tuner. He would have 330 hp stock. Dry sump wouldnt be needed. (If he went road racing and he had one hell of a suspension he should get an accusump (only about 300) but I dont see him going spending a good 5000 on suspension like I have).


As for the original. Do you not know what the grand national/tta engine is? It isn't a 350. It isn't even a v8. It is one of the best v6s ever made. More hp stock then the l98 and some applications have reached as high as 1400 hp. It hasnt been done in a 1st gen to my knowledge.

[tkach]

i know about the gn motor turbo 6 its a grat motor 3.8 but pricey buick t types do own tho. but why would you want to go used on a proformance motor . and yes i have benifited from moron f body drivers before.

[graywolf624]

The reason to go used is cost. As long as the used block is guarenteed your golden. The reason to go that way is that parts(especially used) are more readily available. The ls1 has a larger aftermarket then any chevy engine. The other reason is that using an engine that stock puts out 330 hp at 330 hp is generally infinitly more reliable then tuning a 200 hp engine to 300 hp.

(From my personal headache experience and many of other fbody enthusiasts).

[SilviaS15Cwest]

If the Ram Jet 502 is too much go for the Ram Jet 350.

[tkach]

gnx motor would be sweet to build up. but i still have to say i would never put used parts in my motor. unless i knew the parts. like things as a used cam are just bad ideas but heads andwant arnt but i just dont trust it.

[sickx]

I had no idea the LS1 had become the most-supported SBC motor--I guess it's now more efficient to use that as the starting point rather than messing around with the old carb'd 350s, huh?

[graywolf624]

"I had no idea the LS1 had become the most-supported SBC motor--I guess it's now more efficient to use that as the starting point rather than messing around with the old carb'd 350s, huh?"

Yes and no. LS1 parts are expensive.. with a but...
If you are willing to buy used you can do really cheap with them and they have the highest potential versus reliability.

Alot of it depends on your objectives. A carbd 350 is great for drag but you rarely see them on the street or track.

The ls1 post 2000 even comes in the corvettes with oil baffles. It certainly is the best per price option for a road racing block if you are willing to go used(I agree somewhat on the fears, but if you have a warrenty it is somewhat allayed). Alluminum engine and lower cg go a long way.

As for street. The lt1 seems to be the best overall option. It is very inexpensive even for newer parts and the size of the aftermarket is enormous.

The carbd 350s are great for drag but they lose alot of their streetability rather quickly when you start scrwewing around. Unfortunately the carbs are also starting to fall behind in the aftermarket department. Look at the major parts dealers and most cater almost exclusively to the fi market. It is even becoming more difficult to find dealers for l98s. Not horrible, but I prefer to have the most options available.

[sickx]

What's an LS6 run (new or used)?

[graywolf624]

Sorry I don't have prices for an ls6. For gms price check gm goodrench. For used check ebay and your local corvette performance shop(look for there engine swapped ones).

I only know the ls1 because I am knee deep in that swap at the moment.

[sickx]

graywolf-- you're dropping an LS1 into an '88 camaro? That's going to be a real sleeper!

[graywolf624]

Yuppers. And great for helping me bridge the gap from ot fan to amatuer road racer.:)