Carbon Fibre bonnets - thoughts

[dingo]

What do you guys think about them?

Too ricey (say on a WRX)?

There is a weight saving involved so it helps performace, and cars like the CSL and M6 have a CF roof. ;)

[bmagni]

looks rice IMO, if you really want it and care about the looks paint it the car color.

[MIHALS]

I've seen many cases here in Brighton, which showed me that C/F bonnet is just rice... what is few kg saved for, if there's tons of electonics, changers, subwoofers and other sh*t in the boot :roll:

I respect cars with C/F bonnet only if they're high-tuned and there is this diff between normal and Carbon bonnet "visible" and it's a must have for saving avery needed gram (for example guys from BM). but it still looks too ricey :roll:

[T-Bird]

actually I like CF hoods and trunks on certain color cars like white, black and silver but usually only when the car has alot of stuff done to it. on Scubbies they look nice when the hood scoop is gone and the rear wing is gone but the shape has to remain stock looking. and the difference in weight isn't that much but it is something even going to a fiberglass hood is saving some weight. I will be getting a fiberglass one for my T-bird soon just to clear the engine so it for function not form, right now there is a dent with a ball-ping to clear the much higher and larger Throttle body and intake, basically the throttle would stick open at WOT and had to pop the hood to let it close...

If you like the look of the CF then get it and if you want you can always paint it later with a few thin coats to make it look like a ferrari F40 paint job.

[Daggernite]

They can look really ricey... but they can compliment your car too IMO. Personally, I think with your car having black rims, a c/f bonnet would fit in nice. It not rice if you doing it from a performance point of view.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2739/wrxstiprofile95wy.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wrxstiprofile95wy.jpg)

I dont consider that rice.

[saadie]

saadie mode :: whats a cF hood gonna do ..... reduce some downforce ? or give you extra boost ? ;)
daggernite i right about the color combination ....... but there are alot of other butts :P if you know waht im sayin


naughtygurl mode :: wht do you want that for .. attracting hoes with ca red car in two colors ? :P :mrgreen: :lol:

[davide]

Is it just me, or would a cf bonnet cost a fortune?
Spend the cash on something else, like engine upgrade.. :)

I know I would.

[DeMoN]

CF is rice IMO unless you paint it. If you do it for the performance, you shouldnt have an issue painting it. If you just want it to be light, then paint the thing and get the stock looking one, not the fake vented ones.

[Fleischmann]

I think such a modification should be discrete, so just paint it the colour of the rest of the bonnet.

[Shinigami]

CF bonnet's are not cheap, so you might get more performance through engine tuning, then the weight gain involved...

Depending on the car it can look ricey, but a Scoobie should do fine with one. Especially a dark blue one since the black CF will look more in place.

If you paint it (with proper paint and several layers for protection), you'll add another few pounds, negating the weight saving.

Isn't the Scoobie hood already made of aluminium? So really, you'll save only a few kilos through the CF hood I think. If you've got the cash, go ahead, but I'd consider doing a bit more then just the hood if I really wanted to reduce weight (but then it costs a lot more).

[dingo]

well ofcourse its not only for the weight saving, part of it is for the look aswell - I won't deny I want my car to look good, and not all cosmetic things are going to aid performance greatly (like the wheels I just got).

The only reason I'm considering it is because I've been offered one at about half the price of a new one (and its only been used on the car for about 2 weeks worth of shows - never seen the road).

Thanks for all your opinions so far, keep them coming. :D

[Shinigami]

If you can get it for half the price and want the CF look, then IMO you should go for it ;)

[TT]

The good thing is that you save weight and also in a pretty medium-to-high part of the car. Of course it's even better a carbon roof since it's ok top and will definitely lower the center of mass of the car much more than a bonnet. Also, the saving isn't of course something you'd notice so IMO it's ok as long as weight saving will go on (removing rear seats and so on ;)). But actually if you buy it, it's a bit sad to paint it. Ok.. you will avoid any rice problem, but still a bit sad not to show the carbon wave ;)

[dingo]

If I get it then I would definately not paint it - I want to continue the red/black theme so a black bonnet would contrast nicely IMO.

[TT]

What about the look of the bonnet itself? Replicating the original one or different?

[gucom]

i'd paint it if i bought it, imo it looks ricey to have a naked CF bonnet...but im the conservative kinda guy :)

[dingo]

What about the look of the bonnet itself? Replicating the original one or different?

Same as the original, here is a pic of the exact one I'm looking at, minus the scoop in this shot.....I would maybe consider keeping the current red scoop to break up all the black.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/566/dsc030736lo.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc030736lo.jpg)

[DTM8]

I see a lot of WRX's in and around the NYC area with some sporting the carbon fiber hoods. So I tend to acknowledge the Rex's with the regular CF hoods and not of the ultra vented kind as a great non-ricey substitute. However, some who install the CF hood just want to get rid of the scoop and opt for a FM intercooler (which IMO is not ricey either).

[MartijnGizmo]

What about getting a hood without scoop and a FMIC?????

[dingo]

Nah I love my scoop, and its something that typifies a WRX in my opinion so I wouldn't get rid of it. ;) I'd get an Evo if I didn't want a scoop.... :P

FMIC is something for the future though....

[sameerrao]

RICE!!!

[dingo]

RICE!!!

so is an M3 CSL or M6 rice too? ;)

Here is a quick photoshop.....

http://www.ozcarsightings.com/cfbonnet.jpg

[sameerrao]

No!!! SaurKraut!!!

[MartijnGizmo]

I really like the look of it on the red car!

[saadie]

http://Serv3.imagehigh.com/imgs/03/23032_ding.jpg :P cf is really shiny ...... keeping it clean would be a real pain :?

[dutchmasterflex]

CF is rice IMO unless you paint it. If you do it for the performance, you shouldnt have an issue painting it. If you just want it to be light, then paint the thing and get the stock looking one, not the fake vented ones.

If you paint it, it will just become heavier.. which defeats the purpose of having a CF hood ;)

[Shinigami]

I think that looks pretty good with the red and black (I'm a big fan of red/black combos for things in general).

So how much is the price? $600-800 (US)?

[dingo]

So how much is the price? $600-800 (US)?

$AU 580 ($1200 new) - thats about $435 US.

Bargain IMO, and I'm sure I can talk him down a bit more.

[ae86_16v]

I've seen many cases here in Brighton, which showed me that C/F bonnet is just rice... what is few kg saved for, if there's tons of electonics, changers, subwoofers and other sh*t in the boot :roll:



Exactly :!: Same story here in California. People put CF on EVERYTHING now.

Thanks but I gotta say it is rice.

http://Serv3.imagehigh.com/imgs/03/23032_ding.jpg :P cf is really shiny ...... keeping it clean would be a real pain :?

And keeping it protected from UV.

You could match it w/ a CF wing.

[Shinigami]

Oh yeah, that's a really good deal. Don't let it drop from too high when closing the hood tho', it might shatter.

[Shinigami]

There have been some cases of CF bonnets shattering when you drop them from too high when you close the hood.

CF is very tough, but it's sudden hard shocks and jolts that may cause damage to the material, especially in something that is in the form of a hood, i.e. long, bolted in corners near the windscreen and has to connect at the front via a hook and lock.

[nthfinity]

I think that looks pretty good with the red and black (I'm a big fan of red/black combos for things in general).

So how much is the price? $600-800 (US)?

it doesn't look bad.... but nearly every CF hood i've been near has had terrible panel gaps on one side, and nearly scratching the paint on the other... if its even on both sides, do it IMO ;)

oh, and the price is a steal.... be careful, as unpainted CF tends to lose its clear coat on the edges pretty easily

[TT]

Ok, especially if it has the same exact design as the stock item, I think you should buy it.

As for the idea of keeping a red scoop, might be quite interesting but not sure it will be better than full cf.

[TeflonTron]

Do it, but only if you get something CF at the back of the car to give a theme to the car, and a nice balance.

[saadie]

^^ a roof scoop ? :P ....

[T-Bird]

what I've seen before and I think is sweet is to get the front mount at the same time and turn the scoop backwards as a sort of heat vent I've seen it on a few Very powerful scooby's and have loved it.

[Daggernite]

A WRX definatly needs the scoop. Go fully carbon man, dont get the red scoop on the CF it would look odd imo.

[TT]

what I've seen before and I think is sweet is to get the front mount at the same time and turn the scoop backwards as a sort of heat vent I've seen it on a few Very powerful scooby's and have loved it.

This is just weird :hmm: either those cars had the intercooler moved somewhere else where to get fresh air, either I don't see why you should suck air away from it instead of trying to drag more fresh one directly on it :?:

[dingo]

what I've seen before and I think is sweet is to get the front mount at the same time and turn the scoop backwards as a sort of heat vent I've seen it on a few Very powerful scooby's and have loved it.

This is just weird :hmm: either those cars had the intercooler moved somewhere else where to get fresh air, either I don't see why you should suck air away from it instead of trying to drag more fresh one directly on it :?:

yes thats what he meant by "front mount", the intercooler is mounted at the front behind the bumper and gets air that way - so the top mount 'cooler (standard) is removed hence no need for the scoop so to speak. ;)

[TT]

Ok ok sorry the misunderstanding. Now of course I am puzzled: if you mount the intercooler at the front, using the main bumper's air intake to feed it with air, what about the air flow that usually flows through it? I mean: is the engine cooled down just by the top intake (where the Sube logo is)? Where does the lower's opening air go?

Someway I think that, if a manufacturer place the intercooler on the top of the engine, there must be a reason

[Shinigami]

TT: it's probably just cosmetic. It could also be due to the size of the engine. For example, Porsche engines take up a lot of horizontal space, but not much vertical space. I think I read that Subaru engines are similar. This means there's space on top of the engine for the intercooler, meaning that they reduce weight from the very front of the car so as to eliminate some of the problems you get in, for example an Audi, where the engines are so far out at the front that the handling of the car is adversely affected.

Just speculation, pretty sure Dingo has more knowledge about his car ;)

[MartijnGizmo]

Advantages
- The TMIC may be placed close to the turbocharger and/or supercharger compressor and to the engine's intake. As a result, the intake tubing can be kept short. The longer the path from the intercooler to the engine, the more air must be pressurised within the hoses when a change in pressure is demanded - and the greater the lag imposed. When used in combination with quick-spooling turbochargers, such as ball bearing turbochargers, the result is a more responsive engine.

Disadvantages
- Heat from the engine may be conducted through to the intercooler, usually while trying to escape through an open hood vent. Because of this; hot, cramped or poorly ducted engine bays (commonly the case with rotary engines) do not fair well from TMICs.
- TMICs tend to be less efficient than similarly sized front mount intercoolers, due to the smaller amount of cold air flow through the hood scoop compared to the grille in most car designs.

The air passing through an FMIC (front mounted intercooler) is still sufficient to cool the radiator behind it.

[TT]

Thanks Martijn :!:

[dingo]

Advantages
- The TMIC may be placed close to the turbocharger and/or supercharger compressor and to the engine's intake. As a result, the intake tubing can be kept short. The longer the path from the intercooler to the engine, the more air must be pressurised within the hoses when a change in pressure is demanded - and the greater the lag imposed. When used in combination with quick-spooling turbochargers, such as ball bearing turbochargers, the result is a more responsive engine.



exactly, the turbo in the WRX is mounted at the back (on the left, drivers side) hence the placement of the intercooler.

[666fast]

Hmmm, well, your car already looks great and that will continue if you paint it.

Since you already have black heels, I think it would look good if you left it black as well!

I'm really helpfull huh?

I definately would not paint just the scoop red, it would look ridiculous IMO.

If you do leave it black, at least get it clearcoated or use that clear bra stuff. I don't know if you've seen scratched CF hoods, but it's very distracting and makes it look a hell of a lot worse!
Also, if you leave it black, get black wing mirrors and see about having the inside of the headlights housings tinted. I think it would look good!

Can you use the factory hood latch with this hood? I personally hate how hoodpins look on most cars.


As for them shattering, it can happen, I've seen it. Just because it's CF, doesn't mean it's strong. Cf's strength relies entirely upon how it's made. The cheaper it is, the less strength it's probably going to have. A friend of mine is in college for composite materials engineeering. He told me of a test they did to show how the resin and the fiber weaving can make a difference in strength. They made two foot long strips by about an inch wide. I forget the numbers, but one was over twice as strong as the other.

[coombsie66]

Carbon fibre bonnets are flammable and delaminate with significant heat input. Metal ones arnt.
If you had a fire in the engine bay with a carbon bonnet you can kiss goodbye to the car, if you got a steel bonnet you might just save the bulkhead back.

They do look good though i have to admit! 8)

[inso]

a friend of mine has carbon fibre vents in his M6 hood, looks really nice.

http://www.vorsteiner.com/vrs-hood-m6.html
should have been like that from the factory

[sameerrao]

Dingo, How long do you plan to keep the Rexx? You seem to be going at a good clip on the mods front. Typically there would be a 50% loss of value to the modded part when it comes time to sell the car.

My opinion (and its only an opinion) is that if you plan to sell the car in the next 3 years or earlier then it makes sense not to add more to this car and save up for a the future car. On the other hand, you want to keep the car for several years then modifications start to make more sense.

Take my case. I have had my Audi for the last 5 years (its birthday was 2 days back). So far the car has been bulletproof (touch wood). I haven't modified it as 90% of the S4 owners do.

Initially it was because I wanted to keep the car stock within the warranty period. Once the warranty expired about a year back, I actually liked the car as-is and didnt feel that it was worthwhile to do more to it. Its my all-round car and therefore needs to be reliable, relaxing as well as fun which it is in stock form.

Instead of pouring more money into the S4, I want to save up over the next 2-3 years to add a Ferrari 348 to the stable to get a proper fun car to back up the S4.

Just food for thought....

[SilviaEvo]

it looks fine with that CF Hood. i like CF hoods. and it matches the wheels

[T-Bird]

Advantages
- The TMIC may be placed close to the turbocharger and/or supercharger compressor and to the engine's intake. As a result, the intake tubing can be kept short. The longer the path from the intercooler to the engine, the more air must be pressurised within the hoses when a change in pressure is demanded - and the greater the lag imposed. When used in combination with quick-spooling turbochargers, such as ball bearing turbochargers, the result is a more responsive engine.



exactly, the turbo in the WRX is mounted at the back (on the left, drivers side) hence the placement of the intercooler.

same idea with the RDX having the Turbo mounted behind the engine right off the manifold (large bastard too) then the pipe from the Turbo to the TMIC is about 4 inches and 2.5 in diameter then out the other side is connected right to the throttle body. the entire front grill is a ram air duct that is sealed to the intercooler when the hood is closed. great design to accompany the variable flow turbo making 13.5 psi at only 3500rpm I really think that it wouldn't benefit from a FMIC on a stock turbo justlike the WRX I just think the big intercooler behind the grill is menacing especially on the SRT-4.

[dingo]

Dingo, How long do you plan to keep the Rexx? You seem to be going at a good clip on the mods front. Typically there would be a 50% loss of value to the modded part when it comes time to sell the car.

My opinion (and its only an opinion) is that if you plan to sell the car in the next 3 years or earlier then it makes sense not to add more to this car and save up for a the future car. On the other hand, you want to keep the car for several years then modifications start to make more sense.



Its an addiction really, there is always something I can see that I should improve on the car. ;)

However I only really use my "leftover" cash to pay for the mods, not digging into my savings/investments so I still believe the Ferrari is on the cards (at 30yo would be nice). :D

I'm over the CF bonnet now, need bigger brakes first. :twisted: