General Motors News - Jalopnik releases rendering of C7 ZR1

[corvette97]

hey RC, what info do you have on the BLUE DEVIL, i read somewhere that will have the 7.0 V8 with a supercharger 600hp, other say a V12. 100,000$+

[nthfinity]

http://www.corvetteconti.com/welcome/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=295&Itemid=29

http://www.corvetteconti.com/welcome/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=103&Itemid=47
(inclucdes one of my "spy-shots" somewhat recognized by the vette community)

nobody knows what the future super-vette will look like... but with some luck, JW may be the first to see it ;)

[RC45]

Well sadly the real is probably that the engine will be small displacement, forced induction - heavier and more complex and less effective overall.

GM can just about stay in business selling shitty cheap cars - they have no busiiness trying to make $100,000+ cars that will slow and heavy like Lamborghinis...

If people wanted a ferrari or Porsch or Lamborghini, that's what they would buy - variety is the spice of life.

[5vz-fe]

Ahh, here comes the quick and dirty way of HP gain again.........there's so much more one can do to that LS7 engine for more HP, but noo, they want to use a supercharger. :|

[corvette97]

i also read 2800lb :twisted: and 600hp are goooood IMO

[5vz-fe]

i also read 2800lb :twisted: and 600hp are goooood IMO

2800lb?? That's highly unlikely

[RC45]

i also read 2800lb :twisted: and 600hp are goooood IMO

Take a look at the Porsche Carrera GT numbers.. imagine the price of the CGT if it only weighed 2800lbs...

[coloradosilver]

My guess is that the project will either get scrapped or delayed heavily due to the current financial issues of GM. There's not much market for a $100,000+ Chevy. If they do make it, I'd guess that of course there would be those who would buy it, but it would be the same people that bought the Ford GT.

Much easier to buy a regular Z06 and make some mods to get the same performance for way less price.

[nthfinity]

i also read 2800lb :twisted: and 600hp are goooood IMO

Take a look at the Porsche Carrera GT numbers.. imagine the price of the CGT if it only weighed 2800lbs...
its not a coupe ;) it might have been (slightly) cheaper if it weren't a roadster/hardtop, and definately would've weighed in under 3000 lbs.

[nthfinity]

i also read 2800lb :twisted: and 600hp are goooood IMO

Take a look at the Porsche Carrera GT numbers.. imagine the price of the CGT if it only weighed 2800lbs...
somehow, i dont think 600hp is thier goal... if it is going to be a 6.2-6.3 liter dohc S/C'd v8... ford have already done near about 600 sae hp in the GT... and still quite some potential left in that engine ;)

i haven't heard anything new on this subject in a about 3 months now.... but they were originally gunning for #1 @NS. the development time on the engine alone seems to warrent it will be used for something.

[corvette97]

somehow, i dont think 600hp is thier goal... if it is going to be a 6.2-6.3 liter dohc S/C'd v8... ford have already done near about 600 sae hp in the GT... and still quite some potential left in that engine ;)


maybe they want it to have more tunable aftermarkted opportunities, although would be stupid, but maybe.

one thing all info sources have come up with, is that will use CF in various body parts.

[harryo2b]

Well sadly the real is probably that the engine will be small displacement, forced induction - heavier and more complex and less effective overall.

GM can just about stay in business selling shitty cheap cars - they have no busiiness trying to make $100,000+ cars that will slow and heavy like Lamborghinis...

If people wanted a ferrari or Porsch or Lamborghini, that's what they would buy - variety is the spice of life.

Agree with RC45 on this. GM is having a hard time keeping it's head above water with it's economy/family car lineup that building a "super vette" with a possible target market near $100,000 would just be going backwards for GM. The Z06 is more than enough for track/road and pretty damn light and perfect market price to compete with the top European names.

[MrFranks]

Well sadly the real is probably that the engine will be small displacement, forced induction - heavier and more complex and less effective overall.

GM can just about stay in business selling shitty cheap cars - they have no busiiness trying to make $100,000+ cars that will slow and heavy like Lamborghinis...

If people wanted a ferrari or Porsch or Lamborghini, that's what they would buy - variety is the spice of life.


I'd hardly call a Murcielago "slow" when it's faster than a Z06, unless that's a "slow" car too.....

[5vz-fe]

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/4143/bilde0gr.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060328/FREE/60327014/1024

[RC45]

Ohhh - that's a nice GrandPa Caddy.. ;) -- eating M5's and M6's for lunch... :P

[dutchmasterflex]

Are they really making a Super V? or is that just a body kit...

an LS7 would be a beautiful thing in that engine bay...

edit:

heh, guess I was too eager to read the article and posted too soon..

:shock: That thing is gonna be a serious beast.. Whats the curb weight on a CTS-V vs a E60 M5 anyway?

[5vz-fe]

meh. pointless.

when will Chevy...oh i mean Cadillac...realise that shoving big ass engines into box shaped baby carriers isn't gonna save their crumbling corporation........

they should instead focus on building cars for everyone....cars that will save the company.

Without such high performance sports cars, GM will be nothing but a crappy car manufacturer. Having a fast Cadi / Chevy, at least ppl will bring it up in car forums and serve it promotional purpose. To show my point, we do have an American Muscle section :wink:

[RC45]

Are they really making a Super V? or is that just a body kit...

an LS7 would be a beautiful thing in that engine bay...

edit:

heh, guess I was too eager to read the article and posted too soon..

:shock: That thing is gonna be a serious beast.. Whats the curb weight on a CTS-V vs a E60 M5 anyway?

There are number of 427ci LS6/C5R block CTS-V's on the street, and a couple of Twin Turbo cars as well.. I have run into a N/A 427 that was being worked on in Houston... pretty damn fast... but then again 540rwhp will do that to you, even if you are a 3800lb 4-door sedan ;)

(the M5 is about 4100lbs.. :P)

[McLaren4eVa]

Meh pretty pointless car i think GM has it's sports car lineup sorted with the Vettes no point in making superfast sedans because i can't think of anyone who would choose this over an M5 M6 CLS well except for you RC45. Maybe caddilac should focus on the interior instead of using plastic.

[RC45]

Meh pretty pointless car i think GM has it's sports car lineup sorted with the Vettes no point in making superfast sedans because i can't think of anyone who would choose this over an M5 M6 CLS well except for you RC45. Maybe caddilac should focus on the interior instead of using plastic.

Well - there must be a lot of folks that think liek I do.. M5 performance at M3 prices.. ;) - as it is Caddy sells every CTS-V they make.

I am sure you are aware that the CTS-V is actually a superbly handling super-sedan, and is raced very succesfully - it is NOT an AMG style cruise mobile by any stretch of the imaginaiotn.

it is a hard-core, hard-edged sports car with 4 doors, that in the right hands will outlap an M3 and the previous generation (400hp) M5.. ;)

Watching the CTS-V race car outrun and outgun the GT3 RS's, Viper ACR's and C6 race cars on Speedvision GT is an education in itself.. :P

[nthfinity]

^^^^
as seen in my photographs i've so far posted; CTS V's sell very well indeed... so any comment saying "when will GM learn..." is pure CRAP... its more likely you have something to learn by it ;)

not to mention... there are already numerous STS-V's, and XLR-V's around town w/out Manufacturer plates on them 8)

[nthfinity]

^^^^^^
again, this points to marketing... and cobalts are selling well themselves...

and isnt the GTi the "special" version of the Golf :wink: so for an additional $5000+ you have the VAG GTi with about 200 hp, or the Cobalt SS with about 200 hp... both handle well... and unlike past GM economy cars... the Cobalt SS is put together well.

which would i choose? well... the GTi... but the SS has another year on the market ahead of the Golf GTi.

[nthfinity]

yes, it's marketing, and model development, and appeal to the general buyer....a car like the Super V CTS-V or whatever it's called, may have transient appeal to a car magazine reader....but to a REAL buyer in the showroom, it's not a car which can help a company.


the V isnt a ultra-low volume car... sure, its not as high volume as the "standard" models... but its profit margins are larger. and a REAL buyer in the showroom... the fact that the V is faster then the M, or the S badges or RS badging... that DOES matter. you get a faster, and better performing car then what Audi, BMW, and MB can; at a fraction of the cost.

what these guys lose out on...? interior trim; and high maintanence costs... small price to pay for the guys who love going fast.

so... being that the V's are selling... doesn't that mean that the REAL buyers in the showroom are taking notice?

[RC45]

^^ I am an old VW fan, coming from a loyal VW family, and the new GTi does not appeal to me - it's a hype car, a coffee shop car, a fad car if ever there was one... :)

I am not in the business of "car business" so I could care less whether VW, GM or Ferrari survive.. I am in the "business" of enjoying and liking what I buy ;)

[RC45]

$50K vs $90K - thats quite a bit cheaper.. ;)

[gangajas]

Watching the CTS-V race car outrun and outgun the GT3 RS's, Viper ACR's and C6 race cars on Speedvision GT is an education in itself.. :P

Well, the Citroen Xsara and the Ford Focus are the best rally cars and that doesn't mean that a Xsara or a Focus are the ultimate driving machines. I think that comparing racing cars to street cars is something ridiculous

[nthfinity]

^^^^^^
hard to say, mate... the economy is doing much better outside Michigan...

71/79ths is still a fraction :P (well, i dont think the XLR V is worth the asking price... same with the XLR)

[RC45]

$50K vs $90K - thats quite a bit cheaper.. ;)

since when did an S4 or an M3 cost $90k? don't think so.

an RS4 is a waaaay more interesting car than the CTS-V, so they can't be compared.

Ever driven a CTS-V?

[gobs3z]

The literal interpratation of the CTS-V is a Corvette Z06 (previous model) with 600lbs. added too it. It can't be a bad car by any means, i hate the interior still, but it's a corvette at heart. But beyond that, is the LS9 something that is actually being worked on?

[nthfinity]

The literal interpratation of the CTS-V is a Corvette Z06 (previous model) with 600lbs. added too it. It can't be a bad car by any means, i hate the interior still, but it's a corvette at heart. But beyond that, is the LS9 something that is actually being worked on?
100% does exist, and no confirmed production plans... but we saw the 7.0 being tested in a V @ NS... why not a supercharged 6.2??

[bmagni]

nice ! I love the CTS, both versions, and now this one... 500 hp sounds crazy, and it looks great !

[r2r]

This CTS super V will keep BMW, Audi, and Mercedes on their toes.

[hemi_fan]

Watching the CTS-V race car outrun and outgun the GT3 RS's, Viper ACR's and C6 race cars on Speedvision GT is an education in itself.. :P

Well, the Citroen Xsara and the Ford Focus are the best rally cars and that doesn't mean that a Xsara or a Focus are the ultimate driving machines. I think that comparing racing cars to street cars is something ridiculous

hahah...very true :)

The ford focus handles very well... im confused.

[number77]

Most likely this isn't a super CTS-V, but is either the next gen C6 z06 or Camaro Z/28.
You guys are gonna go nuts when you hear about the Z/28 power numbers. :wink:
The literal interpratation of the CTS-V is a Corvette Z06 (previous model) with 600lbs. added too it. It can't be a bad car by any means, i hate the interior still, but it's a corvette at heart. But beyond that, is the LS9 something that is actually being worked on?
100% does exist, and no confirmed production plans... but we saw the 7.0 being tested in a V @ NS... why not a supercharged 6.2??
Sir, what do you do for a living?

[sameerrao]

GM spent good money on key things like the engine.

The best thing about the CTV-V is that it is built by GM which means terrific depreciation which means terrific second hand value. I mean you can get a 2004 car with 20K miles on the clock for about $35K vs 53K when new. GM no longer is crap quality - it may not be Audi quality but not crap anymore.

I havent researched this car much so I am not sure if it suffered from any issues. I havent driven one yet so cant comment on its ride/feel, etc.

[nthfinity]

Most likely this isn't a super CTS-V, but is either the next gen C6 z06 or Camaro Z/28.
You guys are gonna go nuts when you hear about the Z/28 power numbers. :wink:
The literal interpratation of the CTS-V is a Corvette Z06 (previous model) with 600lbs. added too it. It can't be a bad car by any means, i hate the interior still, but it's a corvette at heart. But beyond that, is the LS9 something that is actually being worked on?
100% does exist, and no confirmed production plans... but we saw the 7.0 being tested in a V @ NS... why not a supercharged 6.2??
Sir, what do you do for a living?
i am very close to to GM and Ford ... i think that is enough to say... :wink: ... but it's still largely ignored

i think its safe to say that its because of me that first word of the 6.2 in testing got out... :P ... although, i could be mistaken :lol:

[nthfinity]

GM might have grounds to sue for those photos, dani :lol: i dont think they will... those photos have been out since mid-feb. unfortunately, i haven't found anything "that interesting" :lol: during my short trips over there.

i really love the fender flairs

[Shinigami]

I really don't like the look of the CTS... it's so... so blocky, especially the headlights, I just don't like that look at all *shrug*

The power is impressive tho'!

[RC45]

^^ It's called masculine and muscular... appeals to a different kind of man than the girly lines of some cars... :P ;)

[Shinigami]

True true...

Personally, I'll just think of the designers being piss poor at making something attractive and cool ;)

[noliebro]

just wait for the new one, BMW and Merc should be scared, I have seen pics of the car, the inside is great, and the car is gorgous, if you want pics I will post them???

[r2r]

To me this CTS V looks much more badass then the new M5 which has those stupid girly eyebrow headlights.



http://img101.imagevenue.com/loc159/th_13811_2004_BMW_M5_7144.jpg (http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc159&image=13811_2004_BMW_M5_7144.jpg)
http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc52/th_13815_CTS_V_EXTERIOR.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc52&image=13815_CTS_V_EXTERIOR.jpg)

[r2r]

True true...

Personally, I'll just think of the designers being piss poor at making something attractive and cool ;)

That depends where you look :wink:

[TNT]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/country/acf/spyphotoID/6060419.002/cadillac/cadillac-cts-super-v-spy-photos

http://www.americancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060419.002/6060419.002.mini1L.jpg
http://www.americancarfans.com/spyphotos/6060419.002/6060419.002.mini2L.jpg


Cadillac CTS Super-V Spy Photos
by Andreas Conradt
Copyright by AUTOMEDIA
04-19-2006

Super Vee
We got up-close and personal with this Cadillac, and it's obvious that this isn't an "ordinary" CTS V Series! Although the V Series Cadillacs would be considered anything but ordinary, this is a far more aggressive model. Custom bodywork, huge rear tires, larger exhaust pipes, and an engine sound unlike any other CTS, leads us to believe this is the long-rumoured Super V Series. Sources are telling us that the all-new CTS may not arrive as scheduled for the 2008 model year, but may run 5 or 6 months late and enter the luxury-power races as an early 2009 model (in early 2008). And many are speculating that Cadillac will offer this exclusive "build out model" as a last hurrah for the exiting model.
We've been told that the car we shot is likely powered by the Corvette's LS7 powerplant, a 7.0-liter V8 with 505 horsepower. Powerful enough? If not, just wait for the next-generation CTS Super V with the rumoured LS9 engine – a supercharged 6.2-litre V8 with 600 horsepower.

[5vz-fe]

http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37870

[RC45]

It's ok - lets save the haters some trouble..

The CTS Super-V sucks - it is cheap junk - it is behind the BMW M5 by 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000001 sec so it must be pure crap.

In fact I think I will change the topic title to please the haters... ;)

[nthfinity]

It's ok - lets save the haters some trouble..

The CTS Super-V sucks - it is cheap junk - it is behind the BMW M5 by 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000001 sec so it must be pure crap.

In fact I think I will change the topic title to please the haters... ;)

by behind the M5, i have a hard time believing that its actually slower then an M5... more torque; just as much power... likely less weight? ;) speed limiter? ;)

LMAO at the new topic name :lol:

[dutchmasterflex]

that thing looks like a serious beast from that ass shot!
I'm sure this will be just as fast, if not faster than the E60 M5. "Theres no replacement for displacement."


hilarious new topic names RC ;) Which member is responsible for starting this?

[nthfinity]

This new topic name got old after I saw it on the first topic. It's not funny. But then it wouldn't be, because it wasn't thought of by an European.

The wide wheel arches on the car look a bit weird, were they on the cts-V as well? I'd probably prefer an M5, tho I haven't driven either of these cars so I don't really know. Certainly looks better then any BMW.

why would anybody want a Porsche GT2 with its wide and tacked-on flairs?

why would anybody want the homologation special DTM cars with thier tacked on flairs?

answer:
because they go faster, and handle better--- not for posing :)

[RC45]

This new topic name got old after I saw it on the first topic. It's not funny. But then it wouldn't be, because it wasn't thought of by an European.

Really?

You clowns only posts shit here to help bolster your "us cars suck" outlook anyway, so this saved you some troule :)

The wide wheel arches on the car look a bit weird, were they on the cts-V as well? I'd probably prefer an M5, tho I haven't driven either of these cars so I don't really know. Certainly looks better then any BMW.
See - you have an insult buried in that compliment ;) :P

[SPEEDKILLAR]

At 200km/p that "thing" will start to disintegrate, but untill it reaches that speed it could be fun.

[nthfinity]

At 200km/p that "thing" will start to disintegrate, but untill it reaches that speed it could be fun.
wow, speedillar has returned!

BTW; 200kph really isnt that fast... in fact; that is likely to be just out of 3rd gear at that time... still 2 fully usable gears left, and an economy gear for cruising ;)

[SPEEDKILLAR]

At 200km/p that "thing" will start to disintegrate, but untill it reaches that speed it could be fun.
wow, speedillar has returned!

BTW; 200kph really isnt that fast... in fact; that is likely to be just out of 3rd gear at that time... still 2 fully usable gears left, and an economy gear for cruising ;)

I was just kidding, I like the car, its price and power, but the interior could use some improvements here and there.

[bmwmpower]

it looks nice, but engine will be too heavy on front, those american cars re cheaper then european ones, this seems interesting

[nthfinity]

it looks nice, but engine will be too heavy on front, those american cars re cheaper then european ones, this seems interesting
if by front heavy; you mean FRD with low angular momentum, you are quite right... in fact, there is less engine in front of the imaginary axis of the front axle then in the E60 M5.... its just more displacement; and possibly a lighter engine.

[TNT]

wow my topic really took off ;)

[LotusGT1]

How is the current CTS-V selling in the US? Prices seem low if you look at eBay....

[RC45]

They sell every single one.

Prices are low because Lincoln and Cadillac while luxury cars, are super mass produced and traditionally have very poor value retention and thus resale value.

A new Lincoln Towncar is $50K or more new, but you can buy a 12 month old lease turn-in vehicle for about $24,000.

[LotusGT1]

Sounds like a drama with you drop $25k in one year...

Makes them more interesting for second hand buyers though :twisted:

[RC45]

Sounds like a drama with you drop $25k in one year...

Makes them more interesting for second hand buyers though :twisted:

Understand that the size of the auto industry in the US is huge.. you are talking 100,000's of cars of many models produced... some times millions.

Rental fleets, company fleets, government fleets - millions of cars sold/leased etc - so the "used" value of a car is nothing... because there are so many - prices reflect what it takes to move the used cars at auction.

So the $50K sticker of a towncar limo for a limo service is nothing - as they just pay a 12 or 18 month lease rate, and forgo the residual value buy-back to turn the car back to the dealer/distributor/lease company etc and trade in for a new one.

Again, the result is a glut of good condition low mileage used cars that have already made some money for the finance house, now it's the turn of the wholesaler to make some money off the car, sells it to a dealer who inturn sells it back into the market place - and so on and so forth.

[LotusGT1]

OK, but when you are a private party and want to buy a new CTS-V, you're fucked if you want to sell it relatively soon :?:

[RC45]

This is true for all regular production autos (or any consumer product in the US)

Coming from South Africa, where car prices rose rapidly each year after 1988 - where a Golf GTi used to cost about R8,000 new in 1984, to costing over R100,000 in the late 1990's - I was used to a market where the value of used vehicles was held up by the escalating cost of new vehicles.

Where it was not unheard of for a 5 year old car to sell on the used market for higher than the original price when new.

But coming to the US where the economy of scale is mind boggling --- the dealers in the city of Houston probably sell more new cars a year than many counrties do (and I am not talking about poverty stricken countries with 3 roads and a self-proclaimed Dictator President for Life either... ;))

You see the prices of new cars creeping up maybe $100 or $200 a year... maybe.. in fact, many times the newest latest model comes out at a LOWER price than the outgoing model.

This was true for the C5 Coupe and the C6 Coupe.

New prices for those 2 cars were a couple hundred dollars less than the last model out going car.

Imagine that logic and economy of scale and markket mindset being applied to Corollas, Civic, Malibus, Camry's etc etc etc.

You end up with literally millions of used cars that have little to no residual value.

Add to this the new car rebate and discount incentives, 0% financing incentives etc etc etc - and you see why the car is just another commodity in the US and the profit is in the amount of turnover you can generate, not always in the "profit per unit" -- like WalMart yeah? ;) Only a few % profit, but apply that to nearly a billion dollars in turnover revenue per day you see a large dollar amount.

Now this does not always mean the best for the manufacturer, because all the while they are stuck with rising health care and pension costs etc.

Any way... the point is that used cars are dirt cheap in the USA... and even someone working as a shelf packer in WalMart can get a half decent used car for $5,000 and pay it off over 3 years ;)

[nthfinity]

and it didn't sound turbocharged; or like a 4 banger... i'm not affluent in GM v6 engines; but that is almost cirtainly what i saw today... a Pontiac Solstice V6... i'll post some pictures later. 8)

it appeared to handle well, and have liniar accelleration; but not a lot in the noise department as he passed me.

[noliebro]

i will agree that the current cts is lacking on some build quality, but overall is a great car, cant wait for the super V, the regular CTS-V has one of the sickess sounding engines ever. and the next gen CTS is gonna blow everything away inside and out IMHO. :D

[bmwmpower]

that old sound great, sure for buying used, im these days daily in carlots and here is situation different,
used Focus with basic price 12 K euro as new
after 5 years old average condition still 6-7 K
6-7 years old 5-6 K

[nthfinity]

http://nthimage.com/spy_shots/spy_shots_rules.htm

photos are in there, the only Solstice... a few others are interesting :)

[SilviaEvo]

hmmmmm thats a little weird. i thought it was already released? or did it have a smaller engine?

[nthfinity]

hmmmmm thats a little weird. i thought it was already released? or did it have a smaller engine?

4 cyclinder engines; and mid-summer the turbo 4's are coming out... this is almost definately neither... he passed me in goign about 80mph; and the window was down :)

[r2r]

interesting!

More power is always good.

It seems like GM is competing with themselves, possibly the solstice with more power and the sky redline coming soon.

[nthfinity]

you guessed it. Post all General Motors news in here

[nthfinity]

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006608060568
BY TOM WALSH and MARK PHELAN

FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS


The 400-horsepower Chevrolet Camaro concept generated buzz at the North American International Auto Show in January. (MANDI WRIGHT/Detroit Free Press)

Related articles:

*

• TOM WALSH: At last, GM's strategy is making sense

• Phelan's first to drive Camaro concept

Photo galleries:

*

More Photos Camaro

More Photos Camaro

It's really happening: The Chevy Camaro is coming back as a production car, the Free Press has learned.

General Motors Corp. Chairman Rick Wagoner is expected to announce the resurrection of the legendary muscle car in a speech Thursday to an automotive conference in Traverse City.

The auto industry has been buzzing with speculation about GM's plans for the Camaro ever since the carmaker wowed the crowds at the 2006 North American International Auto Show in January with a stunning 400-horsepower concept. At a time when truck and SUV sales are softening and car sales are regaining momentum, a sexy new entry could give GM's entire passenger-car line a boost.

The production version could be built as early as 2008 and will offer three engines, a V-6 and two V-8s, according to people familiar with the plans.

GM spokesman Steve Harris would not comment Friday on plans for the Camaro, but other sources told the Free Press that GM's top management and board of directors have green-lighted the car.

The Camaro was introduced in 1966 as the answer to the Ford Mustang, and it prowled America's streets and drag strips until production ended in 2002.

Like the concept, the production Camaro will be based on GM's new Zeta global architecture for rear-wheel-drive cars, expected to form the basis for several big, powerful sedans and coupes to be introduced over the next few years.

It was unclear last week where GM intends to build the Camaro. Speculation in the automotive press has centered on assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario, and Wilmington, Del.

Other unanswered questions are sure to keep the buzz going even after Wagoner's announcement:

How many people will buy a Camaro in the age of $3.15-per-gallon gasoline?

What will it cost?

And what about bringing back the Pontiac Firebird/TransAm?

Contact TOM WALSH at 313-223-4430 or [email protected].

just confirms what I came out and said 7 months ago ;)

[nthfinity]

If there is anything the Rick Wagoner has learned during his time at GM, it's that you never piss off the unions.


LMAO

if there is anything that Rick has learned is "never play second fiddle 5 years after the japanese for the boring car market"

there is nothing in that article that supports this auther's opening statement; what a bunch of BS

[FoxFour]

Getting back on the Camaro news, I saw on Fox News that GM will be officially announcing Camaro production this Thursday (8-10) .

[detltu6]

it was announced today. It is now official. They updated the chevy performance website.

[nthfinity]

News:

300 hp Solstice GXP coming, likely as a 2008 model, in turbocharged form

News:
rumored "v6 corvette" false

News:
Supercharged LS9 "blue devil"...
who said it will only cost $100,000 USD? GM is 100% commited to making this car a mechanical and engineering success; including use of new and more exotic materials. 650hp... it may be significantly more.

suspension is obviously different, I am unsure of what kind of final body changes will be at this point, as I only have 'access' to GM Powertrain ATM

[nthfinity]

next CTS to be unvieled at NAIAS in January 2007

there are 3 variants of the CTS under way at GM's Caddilac devision

4 door sedan
2 door coupe
and something else

I see potential for the V being either 4 door or 2 door; but I don't know yet

Journalist' responces to the 2 door are overwhelming approval, behind closed doors until january, of course ;)

[number77]

CTS
http://us.tnpv.net/2006/WKA200612/WKA2006121951031_pv.jpg
Malibu
http://us.tnpv.net/2006/WKA200612/WKA2006121835858_pv.jpg
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/12/18/031822.1.jpg

[nthfinity]

HOLY CRAP!!!

New CTS-V with 600+ supercharged horses, lapping NS in 7's .... much faster then all anticipations... 7:40's maybe :P

according to the source, who drives the competition at NS "Ieeet came upon me az eef I vas standing still!"

[TopGearNL]

^^ Sounds good, lol at the source! :lol:

[nthfinity]

New development

CTS-V isn't supercharged... just the impresson of that previously mentioned test driver

It in fact is far more exotic

Pushrod 5 valve heads with over 500 HP, not 600.

Yes, you read that right, pushrod 5 valve heads! WTF! ? :-D

[number77]

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3479/img3113bn4.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3113bn4.jpg)
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/843/img3112ld9.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3112ld9.jpg)
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7382/img3111ww4.th.jpg (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3111ww4.jpg)
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8751/img3109gi6.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3109gi6.jpg)
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7122/img3108mn3.th.jpg (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3108mn3.jpg)
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8570/img3107zz4.th.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3107zz4.jpg)
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3811/img3106mo2.th.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3106mo2.jpg)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6977/img3105ic3.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3105ic3.jpg)

[nthfinity]

Corvette SS

pricing
$115,000 - $125,000

availability
Lotto style to dealers

Expected open market price
In excess of $225,000

power
650 HP

Weight
2800 lbs

Body
Carbon Fibre

Seats
Lightweight buckets

Chassis
Widened both up front and in the rear

Tires
315mm up front, 355 rear ?

Brakes
In the air.... the red prototype has Carbon Ceramic brakes, while the blue prototype has traditional brakes. The cost cutters are currently winning this battle, doubtful at this time that Carbon brakes will even be optional

Modified ratios in the transmission

Known issues
Torque twisting the roof's off still

Rear diff isn't made for hard launches

NS Lap time
Expected 7:25 or better

[number77]

double post.

[number77]

The one above has 423hp I think
0-60 in 4.3 and 190mph capable which makes it about as fast as a 360 modena.
So, I'd assume the blue devil will be very well off. at 650hp (A GM exec said between 600 and 700. I think it was Wagner) and all

[rave426]

If the new Vette SS has a curb weight of 2800lbs, it may just be one of the most sought after cars of the decade.

This would really look good for GM.....although i wished they went the N/A way, because now everybody is going to give the ole' FI excuse.

"If Ferrari's were FI then the Z06 SS wouldnt stand a chance..." :roll:

[5vz-fe]

2800 lbs!! That's quite some impressive weight saving.....

I would still prefer the LS-7 block tho.

Rear diff isn't made for hard launches? The diff itself or the linkages?

If the NS time is real and based on street tires, I really think it will put other super cars to shame.

[blue8]

Spyshots of the 'super Corvette/ Red Devil' whatever it will be called from... Winding Road :roll: I'm not sure if this is credible but here anyway
http://news.windingroad.com/body-stylesmarket-segment/coupes/red-devil-new-super-corvette-spy-shots/

[ZfrkS62]

wow...i was wondering when the Vette was going to end up breaking the 6 figure mark.

However, 2800lbs, vs 600 ponies........hmmm.....I like where this is goin. giggidy giggidy giggidy!!

[RC45]

I am thinking 2800lbs is very optomistic - even the CGT at $500,000 and no limit R&D couldn't do it ;)

[ZfrkS62]

yeah, but the Porker needed to beef up because of the lack of actual C pillar or roof.

The vette might be able to pull off something close. Maybe 3100-3500. All depends on the unsprung weight, and whatever they are using as a frame.

I don't think 2800 is a bad figure to aim for.

[nthfinity]

yeah, but the Porker needed to beef up because of the lack of actual C pillar or roof.

The vette might be able to pull off something close. Maybe 3100-3500. All depends on the unsprung weight, and whatever they are using as a frame.

I don't think 2800 is a bad figure to aim for.

2 will be coming, so it will be easy to find out :-D

one for the personal, one for the maka-da-money-back.

I'm just a conduit for this 2800 lbs. of information :P

[RC45]

yeah, but the Porker needed to beef up because of the lack of actual C pillar or roof.

The vette might be able to pull off something close. Maybe 3100-3500. All depends on the unsprung weight, and whatever they are using as a frame.

I don't think 2800 is a bad figure to aim for.

We are already at 3100lb's and have been for 7 years ;)

The C6 Z06 suffers from a huge amount of heavy glass, extra comfort crap and wider heavier wheels and brakes - and even with carbon fibre bits and an aluminium frame was only able to get back down to 3100lbs.

Race Corvettes get all their weight saving from removing a lot of weight - gutting, cutting, removing and exotifying the materials used.

Hell, even the lightest turbo or super charger setup weighs 100lbs. so youwin some and lose some.

The construciotn would have to go Saleen like to get to some crazy low weight ;)

[ZfrkS62]

oof. I didn't even think about the glass. That wrap around rear window must kill it :?

too bad lexan isn't allowed for street use.

How you think they could save be trimming out .25 inches of upholstery? the carpet in that thing has to weigh quite a bit. Mainly from the padding i'm sure they doubled up on for sound deadening.

Have the LSx blocks gone to AluSil yet, or are they still just aluminum? might save some weight there...

If they're at 3100 now, how hard can another 300 be? :bah:

[acknot]

Looking forward to a confirmation of the 7.25 lap time on the CTS-V with street legal tires. If Sport Auto confirms this time on a production specimen, then GM really does know how to build a performance saloon.

Undercutting an M5 by half a minute is pretty amazing, you could enter this car on street tires and be competitive at the Nurburgring 24h. Who needs Oreca Vipers and C6Rs when you can run as fast with aircon and satnav? :lol:

[nthfinity]

Looking forward to a confirmation of the 7.25 lap time on the CTS-V with street legal tires. If Sport Auto confirms this time on a production specimen, then GM really does know how to build a performance saloon.

Undercutting an M5 by half a minute is pretty amazing, you could enter this car on street tires and be competitive at the Nurburgring 24h. Who needs Oreca Vipers and C6Rs when you can run as fast with aircon and satnav? :lol:

you misread, CTS-V will be sub 8 minute, and Corvette SS will be near 7:25

[graywolf624]

too bad lexan isn't allowed for street use.
Not quite true.. Lexan isn't allowed for windshields. All the rest of the windows can be lexan. In fact, the current base coupes removeable 'targa' is a generic version of Lexan (Lexan is just a brand name, the actual technical term is polycarbonate). My Trans Am's ttops are also Lexan if I'm not mistaken. Several of the porsches come with options for lexan hatches. Then again.. those targa tops are a $1400 option, Lexan isn't cheap.

[nthfinity]

Cadillac are making a A8 L, Merc S klass, BMW 750 iL competitor, and making a brand new V12 engine, the Engine is basically a pair of caddy v6's (DOHC) together, with a new crank (of course) and being a 600+ hp beast in top-of-the range form :)

[blue8]

More on the CTS-V from Autoblog:
The new issue of Motor Trend arrived in the mail and our eyes were instantly attracted to this story that just went live on motortrend.com. The MT crew has learned that the supercharged V8 slated for use in the next-gen Cadillac CTS-V will be none other than a "detuned" version of the 7.0L LS7 powerplant debuting in the Corvette Blue Devil, or rather, Corvette Z07. The MT editors expect the version used in the CTS-V to produce about 600 horsepower, or around 100 horses short of what the Z07 will produce.

Pick any possible competitor for the next CTS-V and it's obvious that all will come up short to Caddy's new mega muscle sedan. The BMW M3 and Audi RS4 both produce only 420 horsepower, while the horsepower happy AMG team stuffed only 503 in the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG. Even the BMW M5, which is larger than the CTS, will come up short with an upcoming horsepower bump into the low-500 horsepower range. In short, the CTS-V will offer the same amount of horsepower as the 2008 Dodge Viper, which is pure insanity. GM's got stones, folks, and Cadillac is clearly the prime beneficiary of its newfound fortitude.

Much thanks to Motor Trend editor-in-chief Angus Mackenzie for allowing Autoblog to republish the rendering above. The July issue (you can subscribe here) is thicker than a Thesaurus and our fave in a string of recent good issues from the MT team.

Source and rendered image:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/04/mt-reports-cadillac-cts-v-gets-600hp-corvette-blue-devil-engine/

[HeilSvenska]

Can we confirm the info above? MT does a lot of hit or miss stuff when it comes to scoops.

[nthfinity]

Can we confirm the info above? MT does a lot of hit or miss stuff when it comes to scoops.

motor trend is wayyyyy off here

the CTS-V that will be coming out as previously mentioned is a 5 valve headpushrod V8 making roughly 510 hp... and MT's staff are kinda off thier kilter for names... maybe because they are way out on the left coast, far from the automotive circles of Detroit.

Supercharged corvette = blue devil = Corvette SS [ not Z07 as previously mentioned by MT, and I am not very sure that the LS9 in the SS is going to be "detuned" and put in the next CTS-V... i'm pretty sure it's an all new motor from Caddy.
Engine = LS9,
few details known beyond that its roughly 647 hp, 2800 lbs, wider up front/rear, carbon fibre body, wider tires front and rear, and potentially carbon brakes.

[nthfinity]

http://www.forbes.com/2007/11/06/gm-gmac-charge-markets-equity-cx_ra_1106markets43.html?partner=yahootix

General Motors, the world’s largest automaker, has the world’s largest headache on its hands. GM announced after the bell on Tuesday that it will take a $39 billion non-cash charge in the third quarter related to establishing a valuation allowance against its deferred tax assets in the United States, Canada and Germany.

GM (nyse: GM - news - people ) shares closed up 0.4%, or 16 cents, to $36.16, but dropped 3%, or $1.06, in after-hours trading after the news of the charge broke.

GM is expected to report third-quarter results on Wednesday.

The company said that in the past it had evaluated its deferred tax assets quarterly and determined that valuation allowances were not necessary in the U.S., Canada and Germany because its three-year losses were due to one-time expenses and it still expected strong earnings at GMAC Financial Services (nyse: GJM - news - people ). But now the automaker said that accounting standards require it to establish a valuation allowance due to developments in the third quarter. One significant factor was the company’s three-year historical cumulative loss in the U.S., Canada, and Germany on an adjusted basis. Another factor was the substantial losses incurred at GMAC related to its residential capital mortgage business, of which GM owns 49%. Challenges in near-term automotive market conditions in the U.S. and Germany also played a role.

“The establishment of a valuation allowance does not have any impact on cash, nor does such an allowance preclude us from using our loss carry forwards or other deferred tax assets in the future,” said Fritz Henderson, GM’s chief financial officer.

Henderson said that the establishment of a valuation allowance “does not reflect a change in the company’s view of its long-term automotive financial outlook.” The company still believes that its new products and the new GM-United Auto Workers agreement will improve GM’s position in the U.S. and better position it to use tax benefits in the future, Henderson said.

But David Healy, a Burnham Securities analyst, said that the charge is an indication that GM’s outlook is not as strong as it was a few months ago. “It’s a deterioration in their short-term outlook,” he said.

GMAC suffered a large loss in the third quarter and the provisions GM took were not sufficient, Healy said, which may mean further write-downs are expected.

GM officially has hired retards to function as accountants....

39 Billion is nothing to blow in the wind against!

[blue8]

Official: Cadillac CTS-V unveiled
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/x09ca_ct010-450.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7759/x09cact002lx6.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/x09ca_ct002.jpg
Our friends over at Jalopnik say the CTS-V is officially fair game now, so here we go. Now that the second generation Cadillac CTS is on the streets and garnering largely positive reviews for its looks, performance and handling dynamics, the time has come to turn it up a notch. The 2008 Detroit Auto Show will bring us the second generation high-performance CTS-V model. Just as the original 2004 version used an engine derived from the top Corvette of the time, so too does the new model. The 2009 CTS-V leap-frogs its chief competitor - the BMW M5 - with GM's new LSA V8 derived from the LS9 in the Corvette ZR1.

The goal of the CTS-V development team was to create a car with the poise and sophistication of the best luxury sedans melded with the outstanding performance of a high sports car. To achieve that they installed the supercharged 6.2L V-8 with an output of 550 horsepower and 550 lb-ft of torque into a heavily upgraded chassis and then went about dressing up both the interior and exterior to match.

[nthfinity]

DETROIT, Mich. — If the Cadillac CTS Coupe concept that debuted at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show made your heart beat faster, then here's something that might make it explode. GM will put this dramatic display of its Art and Science design language into production in 18 months' time.

While Ed Welburn, GM's vice president of Global Design, told reporters at the CTS coupe's press conference "this vehicle really wasn't supposed to exist," the new luxury coupe has been part of GM's plan since at least the middle of 2006. Code-named GMX226, the 2010 Cadillac coupe will start rolling down the assembly line at the Lansing Grand River plant in early June of 2009. Annual production is expected to be in the range of 15,000 to 20,000 units.

Don't expect the production model to differ much from the concept. In back, the very short rear deck lid, angular taillights and sculpted sheet metal will appear on the real coupe. One thing the production model will have, that the concept does not, is a lip spoiler with an integrated middle brake light. The center-mounted exhaust will also be swapped out for a more conventional setup.

[r2r]

Good decision and a good business move in my opinion. Design is great as well!

[corvettekid]

i went to the detroit NAIAS yesterday and with out a doub the CTS coupe was by far the best looking car. i would take a CTS over any 3 series, c class, or a4.

[CMonakar]

Someone at GM needs to circulate a memo that lip spoilers suck-ass. Otherwise I think their styling department is doing a great job :p

[HeilSvenska]

ZR1's design doesn't seen very tasteful, but it's performance first, looks second for that car. As for the Coupe, I can't wait to see it myself in ...oh... 10-11 months.

[nthfinity]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/blog/?p=759

Camaro Goes Hybrid, As GM Axes Rear-Drive Impala, LaCrosse?


General Motors has been forced to rework the investment case for the Chevrolet Camaro in the wake of new fuel-economy rules adopted this past December.

The Camaro will still be built, but higher-end V-8 versions likely will be priced higher than expected. As for other planned GM rear-drivers–a new Chevrolet Impala, Buick LaCrosse and the replacement for the Pontiac G8 due this spring–all have been dropped along with a new V-8 engine GM was contemplating building.

“You can’t kill something that was never approved,” said one GM official, who asked for anonymity but who confirmed the rear-wheel-drive projects are now dead.

Stew Low, a spokesman for GM of Canada, said the Camaro project is safe and is moving forward. The GM of Canada plant in Oshawa, Ontario outside of Toronto should be ready to build the first Camaro late this year, Low said.

Buzz Hargrove, president of the Canadian Auto Workers union, said that GM is spending $2.5 billion in Oshawa - including $435 million from the Ontario and Canadian federal governments.

“We anticipated that would be followed by other rear-wheel-drive vehicles, but the money they spent on the plant makes it a flex plant, so you can build both front-drive and rear-wheel-drive in the facility,'’ Hargrove told reporters in Canada.

Only a proposal for new ultra-luxury rear-wheel-drive Cadillac seems to still have a chance of making it through GM’s product development process and into production. Even that project, though, may well depend on how the Environmental Protection Agency writes the rules enforcing the new fuel-economy standards.

The death of the other rear-drive GM vehicles also has implications for the final pricing of the Camaro when it goes on sale next year.

Last year, GM vice chairman Robert Lutz had told TheCarConnection.com that the rear-wheel-drive platform developed for the Camaro would support other vehicles as part of GM’s effort to make the project financially manageable. Spinning more vehicles from one platform spreads the costs around and is the most efficient and effective way for GM to use its available capital, Lutz has said.

As part of global product strategy GM plans to use fewer but more flexible platforms that would accommodate a wider range of vehicles and vehicle designs. Specifically, the new Camaro platform could be used for other rear-drive vehicles, Lutz said he said before the fuel-economy debate had heated up in Congress.

Part of the reason for the delay in moving forward with the Camaro project revolved around extending the utility of the fundamental architecture so it could serve as the platform for other vehicles as well, he said.

The new fuel-economy rules, however, have basically forced GM to reconsider its extensive plans for rear-wheel-drive vehicles. Rear-wheel-drive trucks and SUVs are safe for now because the new federal rules will allow some wiggle room for trucks. GM, though, is not in a position to absorb the roughly 1-mpg fuel-economy penalty that comes with building rear-wheel-drive passenger cars, GM insiders said in the wake of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

However, GM’s decision to scrap the other rear-drive models is putting an enormous cost burden on the new Camaro.

GM officials are saying they should be able to recover some of the investment costs in the new rear-wheel-drive platform by selling the vehicles in places such as Australia, the Middle East and China. Australia, however, has a new government that takes global warming very seriously. China is imposing new fuel-economy standards that are as tough as those found in the United States and one of the largest vehicle markets in the Middle East, Iran, is off limits to American car companies.

Nevertheless, GM desperately wants to price the new Camaro competitively against vehicles like the new Dodge Challenger and particularly the Ford Mustang, which pretty much inherited the segment after GM withdrew the Camaro earlier in the decade.

With a new generation of rear-wheel-drive vehicles consigned to the never-built file somewhere in the company’s engineering office, GM now is working on a plan B for Camaro.

GM chairman Richard Wagoner has already confirmed a V-6 engine will be part of the Camaro package.

While the concept Camaro has come with V-8 engine, a V-6 would serve as basic engine for the production Camaro and would help keep prices competitive.

Meanwhile, Tom Stephens, the head of GM’s Powertrain Group, told reporters recently that turbocharging can help boost both fuel economy and horsepower.

The V-8 version of the Camaro is very likely carry a substantial premium and GM is thought to have assigned a team of engineers to work out how to apply its new dual-mode hybrid system for an even more expensive version of the Camaro.–By Joseph Szczesny

[RC45]

Another nail in GMs coffin.

There are millions of rear wheel drive customers in the world.. if GM doesnt make any RWD cars, they will buy from others.

The rest of the world will be on the "save the earth bandwagon" right up until they cant pay for it anymore - then all bets will be off again.

Can't GM and Ford to just dry up go bankcrupt already and be gone, so we can stop watching them go through these bizarre model death throws every 5 years ;)

[HeilSvenska]

Despite the gloom over the uncertainly of RWD platforms in GM's future, its cars are racking up some more kudos!


Cadillac CTS Outscores Mercedes C300, BMW 328i in Consumer Reports' Tests of Sports Sedans

Separately, CR ranks new Chevrolet Malibu among the best family sedans; V6 Malibu achieves 'Excellent' overall score

YONKERS, N.Y., Feb. 5 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The redesigned 2008 Cadillac CTS beat out the BMW 328i and the redesigned Mercedes-Benz C300 in Consumer Reports' testing of upscale sports sedans for the March issue. BMW and Mercedes-Benz have long been considered by many Americans to set the standard in the sport-sedan category.

The CTS achieved an "Excellent" overall score, surpassing both the 328i and C300, which received "Very Good" overall scores. The CTS is also ranked above some previously-tested sports sedans including the Lexus IS250, the Acura TSX, and the Audi A4.

While the CTS vaulted past most competitors, the Infiniti G35 and Acura TL still outscore it and lead this class in Consumer Reports' ratings. The CTS ranks third among the 12 sports sedans that CR has rated at its Auto Test Center in East Haddam, Connecticut.

In a separate "Auto Test Extra" report, Consumer Reports tested two trim lines of the new Chevrolet Malibu, the four-cylinder LT trim line and a V6-powered LTZ. The redesigned Malibu now ranks among the best family sedans in CR's ratings, just below the Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry.

The more expensive LTZ posted an "Excellent" score and ranks fourth among family sedans in the $25,000 to $30,000 category. The Malibu LT achieved a "Very Good" overall score; ranking in fifth position overall, and just a fraction of a point behind the four-cylinder Camry LE.

"The Cadillac CTS now competes toe-to-toe with some of the best German and Japanese sport sedans," said David Champion, senior director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports. "There are more safety features and interior amenities in the new model. Fit and finish is greatly improved, and the interior is much more pleasant than in the previous generation."

There were a total of four vehicles in this test group--the CTS, 328i, C300 and Saab 9-3 Aero. The 328i and C300 posted "Very Good" overall scores and are ranked roughly mid-pack. The 9-3 earned a lower overall score, though still high enough to be in the "Very Good" range; it finished near the bottom of the ranking.

Consumer Reports is Recommending two of the vehicles in this test group, the 328i and the 9-3. The reliability of the redesigned CTS and C300 are unknown, so CR cannot recommend either vehicle. Consumer Reports only recommends vehicles that have performed well in its tests, have at least average predicted reliability based on CR's Annual Car Reliability Survey of its own subscribers, and performed at least adequately if crash-tested or included in a government rollover test.

Full tests and ratings of the test group appear in the March issue of Consumer Reports, which goes on sale February 5. The reports are also available to subscribers at www.ConsumerReports.org.

The redesigned CTS is a notable improvement over the model it replaces. A taut suspension and excellent steering give the CTS agile handling. The interior is significantly improved, with higher quality materials. The CTS ($40,835 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price as tested) is equipped with a 263-hp, 3.6-liter V6 that provides strong, responsive performance. Its six-speed automatic transmission shifts smoothly and responsively. Braking on the CTS is very good overall.

BMW's 328i is a delight to drive, with a smooth, quick and refined powertrain, agile handling, and firm yet supple and controlled ride. Fit and finish is excellent, but the cabin is snug. The 328i ($39,175 MSRP as tested) is powered by a 230-hp, 3.0-liter, six-cylinder engine matched to a six-speed automatic transmission. The powertrain makes the 328i smooth, refined, and quick. The 328i returned the best fuel economy of the group in CR's own tests, at 23 mpg overall, but it requires premium gas. Brakes on the BMW are very good.

The C300 is a capable car, and it is more competitively priced than the model it replaces. It is quick and refined. The taut suspension translates into a stiffer ride than that of the other cars in this group. The interior is quiet but snug. The C300 ($37,325 MSRP as tested) is powered by a 228-hp, 3.0-liter V6 engine mated to a seven-speed automatic transmission. The powertrain provides smooth and strong performance with decent fuel economy. The Mercedes' brakes are excellent, delivering very short stops in either dry or wet conditions.

The size and pricetag of Saab's 9-3 place it in the upscale sport-sedan class but the vehicle doesn't measure up to tough competition. CR's top-of-the-line Aero model has quick and smooth acceleration but lacks the refinement of the best sports sedans. The ride is stiff, the cabin is noisy and cramped, and fit and finish isn't as good as buyers expect in this segment. The Aero ($37,815 MSRP as tested) is equipped with a turbocharged 255-hp, 2.8-liter V6 and six-speed automatic transmission that deliver smooth, strong performance. The Saab's brakes are very good overall.

[nthfinity]

Rampant Speculation On 2009 Cadillac XLR, XLR-V

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/02/2006-Cadillac-XLR-V.jpg

The forum fan-boys always on the Inside of News on GM are speculating on the next Cadillac XLR and XLR-V today. Although GM PR folks have been a bit cagey on a replacement for the XLR luxury sports convertible, it isn't stopping the General's fan-boys from rampant speculation gleaned from forums far and wide -- mostly because of Rick Popely's little XLR name-drop in the Chicago Tribune on Sunday. Rick says:

"Cadillac will roll out the 2009 XLR roadster in July with fresh styling in and out.

XLR is based on the Chevrolet Corvette, but Cadillac won't get a version of the 2009 ZR1 due in late summer with a supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 that cranks out 620 horsepower. Chevrolet hints at a price of around $100,000 and says it will build only about 2,000 per year."

So will it get the same LS9 in the new Corvette ZR1? Will it get the LSA from the Cadillac CTS-V? Will it get magic pixie dust? Best question -- will it actually happen? Let's all speculate together, shall we? What say you? [via GM Inside News]
__________________
www.cadillacvforums.com (http://www.cadillacvforums.com/)

[enzoferrari]

Thanks for sharing this good news.

[satcomvato]

I still can't understand why GM can't utilize more tricks to artificially raise the average mpg in order to make the current RWD offerings safe for the foreseeable future. A couple of clean diesel sub-compacts that get north of 60mpg could be just enough to tip the scales and make the 1mpg difference caused by RWD a non-issue.

The real problem with GM is the same problem they've had since the gas crunch of the early to mid 70s. GM is quite simply too slow to react. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current HHR SS model is the first turbocharged 4 banger that GM has ever offered. It's an engine borrowed from the supercharged Cobalt SS but they swapped the blower for a turbo in the interest of fuel mileage. This is something that GM should have been rolling out 15 years ago. It seems like GM is ridden with bureaucratic processes that make it too slow to react to rapidly changing demands.

[RC45]

It seems like GM is ridden with bureaucratic processes that make it too slow to react to rapidly changing demands.

Yes it is ridden with a very expensive bureaucratic process - its called the United Auto Workers Union.

GM cant do ANYTHING without first negotiating some kind of money exchange with the UAW - they cant move, change, close or open plant without talkign to the UAW, they cant add, change or remove a model wihtout consultng with the UAW.

Unions... the real reason the US Auto industry (as well as Iron & Steel, Shipping, Railroad and other heavy industries) are doomed and/or alreday decimated.

[HeilSvenska]

Camaro SS in the works!!!
http://jalopnik.com/365972/ed-welburn-says-camaro-interior-spy-photos-are-bunk-confirms-ss

& more pics
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/spy-shots-black-camaro-prototype/

[HeilSvenska]

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/04/medium_2440771867_ea874db057_o.jpg
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/04/medium_2441601462_e28f51157f_o.jpg
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/04/medium_2441601304_a7b7e56156_o.jpg
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/04/medium_2440812075_6267840a6b_o.jpg
Sexliciousness that is the CTS Wagon.

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/04/medium_2441641756_d0abeb544e_o.jpg
Massive blindspot?

[79TA]

Details on the 2009 Corvette coupe and convertible (including Z06)

So here's a run down of what's new and different for 2009.


(from Chevrolet Press Release) 2009 CORVETTE: ENHANCEMENTS BRING MORE CHOICES, REFINEMENT TO CHEVY’S LEGENDARY SPORTS CAR
After a milestone year in 2008 that saw the introduction of the LS3 6.2L V-8 as the new standard engine, a custom, leather-wrapped interior and more upgrades, the Corvette powers into 2009 with a raft of enhancements that further distinguish it and give customers more choices – including a lower-priced convertible model.

Of course, that range of choices also includes the ZR1, with its 6.2L supercharged engine that produces 638 horsepower (476 kW). (Please see the separate Corvette ZR1 release for complete information on Chevy’s world-class supercar.)

“The Corvette is an American icon with world-class credentials,” said Ed Peper, Chevrolet general manager. “It’s the car we all aspire to own and the 2009 edition, with more choices and features, only amplifies that craving.”
New for 2009
Here is a rundown of the new features and content changes for the ’09 Corvette lineup:

Corvette 1LT convertible – Customers can slip into a Corvette convertible for a lower MSRP with this 1LT-equipped model. Additionally, a power top is now standard on 2LT convertible models.

Two new exterior colors – Cyber Gray Metallic and Blade Silver Metallic are added, while Machine Silver Metallic is discontinued. This brings the Corvette’s exterior palette to nine colors.

Revised crossed flags emblem – The iconic Corvette crossed flags emblem is distinguished with a new, bright surround.

Two new custom leather-wrapped interiors – Dark Titanium and Ebony join Sienna and Linen as available selections.

Bluetooth capability – This option enables the Corvette to offer the convenience and safety of Bluetooth hands-free phone service.

Standard power hatch pull-down – This convenient feature is now standard on Corvette coupe and Z06 models.

Additionally, steering wheel audio controls and variable-ratio steering are standard on all models. Revisions also are incorporated to the hardware and software of the anti-locking braking, traction control and Magnetic Ride Control systems.


Several trim and content changes are incorporated on the Z06, too. They include:

New, “spider”-design 10-spoke Z06 wheel available in four versions: Sparkle Silver, Competition Gray and chrome
Color-keyed door and instrument panels with red and titanium interiors
Power-operated pull-down hatch now standard
Gray stitching on Ebony base seats (previously red)
New door sill plates with the Z06 logo
Acoustic package standard on all Z06 models
The Z06 also receives a larger-capacity dry-sump oiling system. It upgrades to the 10.5-quart (9.9 liters) system of the new ZR1. The previous oil system held eight quarts (7.5 liters).
The popular museum delivery option (RPO R8C) remains available for all Corvette models.
LS3 engine
The 6.2L LS3 small-block V-8 is the standard engine in coupe and convertible models. It is rated at 430 horsepower (321 kW)* and 424 lb.-ft. of torque (575 Nm)* with the standard exhaust system. An optional two-mode exhaust system brings a power rating increase to 436 horses (325 kW) and 428 lb.-ft. (580 Nm).

The LS3 features an aluminum cylinder block with cast iron cylinder liners. The cylinder bores measure 4.06 inches (103.25 mm) in diameter and combine with a 3.62-inch (92 mm) stroke to deliver a 376-cubic-inch (6.2L) displacement. Breathing is accomplished via high-flow cylinder heads. They’re based on the large port/large valve design found on the LS7 engine, with larger-capacity, straighter intake ports. The design optimizes intake flow to the combustion chamber and the exhaust ports are also designed for better flow.

Complementing the large-port design of the heads are commensurately sized valves. The intake valve size is a large, 2.16 inches (55 mm). The intake valves feature lightweight hollow stems, which enable the engine’s 6,600-rpm capability. The exhaust valves also are large, measuring 1.60 inches (40.4 mm) in diameter.

To accommodate the engine’s large valves and enable more direct intake port flow, the intake-side rocker arms are offset 6 mm between the valve tip and the push rod. Actuating the valves is a camshaft with 0.551-inch (14 mm) lift.
Dual-mode exhaust system
Optional on coupe and convertible models is a dual-mode performance exhaust system. It gives the Corvette a more aggressive exhaust sound character that appeals to performance enthusiasts, as well as a boost in horsepower.

Similar in design and function to the system used on the Z06 and ZR1, the dual-mode exhaust uses vacuum-actuated outlet valves, which control engine noise during low-load operation, but open for maximum performance during high-load operation. It is not identical to the Z06 system; it uses a 2.5-inch-diameter exhaust, while the Z06 uses a three-inch system.
Transmissions and axle ratios
The Corvette is offered with a standard six-speed manual transmission or an optional six-speed automatic with paddle-shift control. When ordered with the Z51 Performance Package, the six-speed manual comes with a more performance-oriented gearing, including a “shorter” 2.97:1 first gear.

The shifting feel for both the six-speed manual transmission and paddle-shift six-speed automatic transmissions were improved in ’08, with the manual transmission shifting improvements include a more positive and direct feel during gear changes, with better gate-to-gate location.

The six-speed paddle-shift automatic transmission on the coupe and convertible delivers quick shifts, with the ’08 enhancements bolstering the feeling of performance and driver control when using the shifting paddles. A 2.73 performance axle ratio is available with the automatic transmission. It is included with the Z51 package.
Driving dynamics
Corvette coupe and convertible have a hydroformed steel rail backbone structure, which features cored composite floors, an enclosed center tunnel, rear-mounted transmission and aluminum cockpit structure. Suspension cradles, control arms, knuckles, springs, dampers, bushings, stabilizer bars and steering gear have all been redesigned. Goodyear Extended Mobility Tires (EMT) take advantage of the latest sidewall design and compound technology for run-flat capabilities.

Three suspension choices allow drivers to choose the setup that best suits their driving style. The standard suspension is tuned for a balance of ride comfort and precise handling. Corvette is now more poised at even higher handling levels, yet easier to drive.

The optional Magnetic Selective Ride Control suspension features magneto-rheological dampers able to detect road surfaces and adjust the damping rates to those surfaces almost instantly for optimal ride control. Cross-dilled brake rotors are included when this feature is selected, allowing customers to combine the larger brakes from the Z51 performance package with the comfort of Magnetic Selective Ride Control.

The Z51 Performance Package brings coupe and convertible performance very close to the widely admired previous generation Z06. The Z51 offers more aggressive dampers and springs, larger stabilizer bars, Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar EMT tires, enhanced cooling and larger cross-drilled brake rotors (13.4 inches / 340 mm in front and 13 inches / 330 mm in rear) for optimum track performance while still providing a comfortable ride.

With each suspension, three standard dynamic chassis control systems – anti-lock braking, traction control and Active Handling – operate in concert. In all, the dynamic chassis control systems are smarter, less intrusive and more adept at making the total driving experience precisely what drivers have come to expect from their Corvette.
Corvette design
Dramatic fender forms and exposed headlamps combine with the grille to create a strong visual identity for the Corvette, while the tapered rear deck and fascia improve high-speed performance. The lean rear design sports round taillamps and center-exit exhaust. The fixed Xenon high-intensity discharge headlamps provide superior lighting performance. With a 0.286 coefficient of drag, the coupe models are the most aerodynamic Corvettes ever.
Interior details and technology
Corvette’s interior is inspired by the car’s dual-cockpit heritage. High-quality materials, craftsmanship and functionality help deliver premium quality meant to enhance performance driving. The instrument panel and doors are covered with cast-skin foam-in-place trim with the look of a leather panel. It is warm and inviting and has double the life of conventional trim materials.

An AM/FM/XM radio with CD player and audio input jack is standard. An optional Bose audio system with an in-dash six-disc changer adds to the choices available to the audiophile owner. Steering-wheel mounted audio controls are included on all models. XM Satellite Radio is standard.

A full-function OnStar system with Turn-by-Turn Navigation capability is standard and an onboard navigation system with voice recognition is available. Using a 6.5-inch (165 mm) color touch-screen display, the DVD-based system contains all the map data for the 48 contiguous states and most of Canada on two discs.

Corvette also features k eyless access. When the owner is in close proximity to the door, the key fob’s signal unlocks the door. The system’s emergency key and other remote-function controls are integrated in a single unit
Custom leather-wrapped interior package
Available on coupe, convertible, Z06 and ZR1 models is the custom leather-wrapped interior package. It offers a stylish, two-tone leather-appointed cabin with details that enhance the feeling of Corvette’s craftsmanship. Details include:


Leather-wrapped upper and lower instrument panel, door pads and seats
Choice of new, exclusive colors: Dark Titanium, Ebony, Linen or Sienna, with unique color breakup
Padded door panel armrests
“Corvette” embroidered on passenger-side dash pad
Embroidered crossed flags logo on headrests
Unique center trim plate with Bias pattern.
Corvette Z06 details

With racing-inspired powertrain and suspension features, the Corvette Z06 delivers exceptional levels of capability and technology, making it one of the best performance values on the market.

Design – The Z06 has an unmistakable and aggressive appearance, with design cues that include:


A wide front fascia with a large, forward-facing grille opening, a splitter along the bottom and wheel opening extensions along the sides to provide aerodynamic downforce
A cold-air scoop in front of the hood that integrates an air inlet system for the engine
The trailing edge of the front wheel opening is radiused to achieve improved drag, but protects the body finish with a tough molding, and a large air extractor is located behind the wheel
A fixed-roof body style optimizes body rigidity and mass
Wider rear fenders with flares cover the massive rear tires and a brake cooling scoop in front of the wheels visually balances the fender extractor
A tall rear spoiler houses the CHMSL on the top of the rear fascia
10-spoke spider-design wheels (18-inch, front; 19-inch, rear)
Four large stainless steel exhaust outlets
Z06 badging on the carbon fiber front fenders
The aerodynamics of the Z06’s exterior were shaped by the experiences of the Corvette racing program, where high-speed stability and cornering capability are paramount. And while the race cars use large rear wings, the Z06’s elevated spoiler provides sufficient downforce to balance the road-worthy front splitter without adversely affecting aerodynamic drag. The Z06’s Cd is 0.34.

For all its race-inspired functionality, the Z06 is designed to be a daily-driveable high-performance vehicle. To that end, comfort and convenience are held to a very high standard. High-Intensity Discharge lighting, fog lamps, leather seating, dual-zone air conditioning, cabin air filtration and head-up display (HUD) with track mode and g-meter are standard.

The Z06 gauge cluster displays the Z06 logo on the 7000-redline tachometer and has a readout on the oil pressure gauge to reflect the higher standard pressure of the dry-sump oiling system. The seats feature two-tone leather surfaces, with Z06-logo embroidery and contrasting stitching.

Z06 options include a Bose audio system with an in-dash six-CD changer, Competition Gray or chrome wheels, a telescoping steering wheel, heated seats, side-impact air bags, a navigation system with GPS and universal home remote.

LS7 engine – The Z06’s LS7 7.0L engine delivers 505 horsepower (377 kW) in a 3,180-pound (1,442 kg) package – a combination that delivers 0-60 performance of 3.7 seconds in first gear, quarter-mile times of 11.7 seconds at 125 mph and a top speed of 198 mph (as recorded on Germany’s Autobahn). It also provides maximum lateral acceleration of 1.04 g and 60-0 braking in 111.3 feet; it also circuited Germany’s famed N ü rburgring in a time of 7:43 from a standing start.

The LS7 reintroduced the 427-cubic-inch engine to the Corvette lineup. It is easily identified under the hood by red engine covers with black lettering. The LS7 shares the same basic Gen IV V-8 architecture as the Corvette’s 6.2-liter LS3, but it uses a different cylinder block casting with pressed-in steel cylinder liners to accommodate the engine’s larger diameter, 4.125-inch (104.8 mm) cylinder bores.

Internally, the LS7’s reciprocating components make use of racing-derived lightweight technology, including titanium connecting rods and intake valves, to help boost horsepower and rpm capability. The rpm fuel shut-off limit is 7,100 rpm. The LS7’s details include:


Dry-sump oiling system
Unique cylinder block casting with large, 104.8-mm bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
Forged steel main bearing caps
Forged steel crankshaft
Titanium connecting rods with 101.6-mm stroke
Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
11.0:1 compression
High-lift camshaft
Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
Low-restriction air intake system
Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique “quad flow” collector flanges.
One of the clearest examples of the LS7’s race-bred technology is its use of titanium connecting rods. They weigh just 464 grams apiece and besides being lightweight, which enhances high-rpm performance and rpm range, titanium makes the rods extremely durable.

The LS7’s CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads are designed to meet the high airflow demands of the engine’s 7.0-liter displacement. A hydraulic roller camshaft with 0.588/0.593-inch valve lift is used to allow plenty of air to circulate in and out of the engine. To ensure optimal, uninterrupted airflow, the LS7’s heads have straight, tunnel-like intake runners. Very large by production-vehicle standards – even racing standards – they are designed to maintain fast airflow velocity, providing excellent torque at low rpm and exhilarating horsepower at high rpm. The heads feature 70-cc combustion chambers that are fed by huge, 56-mm-diameter titanium intake valves. They are complemented by 41-mm sodium-filled exhaust valves.

To accommodate the large valve face diameters, the heads’ valve seats are siamesed; and, taken from experience with the engines of C6.R race cars, the LS7’s valve angles are held at 12 degrees – vs. 15 degrees for the LS2 – to enhance airflow through the ports.

The LS7 has a dry-sump oiling system designed to keep the engine fully lubricated during the high cornering loads the Corvette Z06 is capable of producing. An engine compartment-mounted 10.5-quart (9.9 liters) reservoir delivers oil at a constant pressure to a conventional-style oil pump pick-up at the bottom of the engine. The pressurized oil feed keeps the oil pick-up continually immersed in oil at cornering loads exceeding 1 g.

Oil circulates through the engine and down to the oil pan, where it is sent back to the reservoir via a scavenge pump. The large-capacity reservoir, combined with a high efficiency air-to-oil cooler, provides necessary engine oil cooling under the demands of the engine’s power output. With the dry-sump system, oil is added to the engine via the reservoir tank – which includes the oil level dipstick.

Drivetrain – The Corvette Z06’s powertrain and drivetrain systems are matched to the LS7’s performance capability. The light, four-into-one headers discharge into close-coupled catalytic converters and through two-mode mufflers. The mufflers each feature a vacuum-actuated outlet valve, which controls exhaust noise during low-load operation but opens for maximum power.

At the rear of the LS7 engine, a single-mass flywheel and lightweight, high-capacity clutch channel torque to the rear transaxle. The six-speed manual transmission has been strengthened to handle the LS7’s increased torque load. The transmission includes a pump that sends transmission fluid to the front radiator for cooling. Upon its return, the fluid removes additional heat from the differential lube before returning to the transmission. The six-speed transmission connects to a limited-slip differential, with enlarged ring and pinion gears. Stronger axle half-shafts with tougher universal joints transmit power to the rear wheels.

Structure – The Z06 has a unique aluminum body structure for optimum stiffness and light weight for the fixed-roof body style. Perimeter rails are one-piece hydroformed aluminum members featuring cast suspension nodes, which replace many welded steel components on other Corvette models. Other castings, stampings and extrusions are combined into the innovative structure with state-of-the-art manufacturing technologies.

Advanced structural composites featuring carbon-fiber are bonded to the aluminum structure. The wider front wheelhouses, for example, are carbon composites and the passenger compartment floors combine carbon-fiber skins with an ultra-lightweight balsa wood core.

The Z06 has a new magnesium cradle that serves as the attachment point for the engine and some front suspension components. Magnesium is lighter than aluminum yet incredibly strong. The magnesium cradle helps improve the front-to-rear weight distribution, as do carbon-fiber front fenders and wheelhouses. Engineers also moved the battery from underhood to a position in the rear cargo area, behind one of the rear wheels.

The mass reductions are offset by some added performance enablers, including dry-sump lubrication, exhaust system with outlet valves, larger wheels and tires, larger brakes and larger roll stabilizers.

Suspension and brakes – The Z06 retains the 105.7-inch (2686-mm) wheelbase of other Corvette models, as well as the short-long arm suspension and transverse spring design, but it rides on all-new wheels, tires and brakes, as well as its own rear spring and roll stabilizer.

The firmer suspension works harmoniously with large 18 x 9.5-inch cast-spun aluminum wheels and 275/35ZR18 tires in the front, and 19 x 12-inch cast-spun aluminum wheels with 325/30ZR19 tires in the rear. The tires use the latest extended-mobility technology from Goodyear to provide a satisfactory ride, but still allow the vehicle to achieve lateral acceleration of more than 1 g. The extended-mobility tires eliminate the need – and weight – for a spare tire and jack or inflator kit, while also reducing the chance of a sudden loss of handling capability.

Complementing the suspension system and large rolling stock is an equally capable four-wheel disc brake system, consisting of 14-inch (355 mm) vented and cross-drilled front rotors and 13.4-inch (340 mm) vented and cross-drilled rear rotors.

The front rotors are acted upon by large, red-painted six-piston calipers that use six individual brake pads. Individual brake pads are used because they deliver more equalized wear compared to what would otherwise be a pair of very long single-piece pads. For the rear brakes, four-piston calipers with four individual brake pads are used. A four-channel ABS system is standard, as is a very competent active handling system – complete with a Competitive Driving mode.




And for convertible details:


from General Motors Press Release) The ’09 Corvette lineup includes the Corvette coupe and Corvette convertible, each powered by the 430-horsepower (321 kW) LS3 V-8, and the incomparable Corvette Z06. Equipped with the 505-horsepower (377 kW) LS7 engine and built on a lightweight chassis, the Z06 is a street-going descendent of the championship-winning Corvette racing program.
The Corvette convertible now features a power-operated soft top with the 2LT package; an easy-to-operate manual top is standard on the new 1LT convertible. Both configurations use a five-layer fabric that conceals the underlying structure for a good top-up appearance, plus it helps preserve the car’s excellent aerodynamics and reduces road noise.

[philip]

ZR1 review by Bloomberg financial news no less.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=amMYHt5D693I&refer=home

Said if GM did its other cars as well, they wouldnt be in so much financial trouble.

[graywolf624]

Not much really in the name of changes. Sat in a Zr1 and an 09 last week at Corvettes in Carlisle. The Zr1 interior is the same as a C6 optioned up. The interior isnt the source of the 100k price tag.

[nthfinity]

Zr 1 is on hold for no published reason.

I am told it is because of faulty torque tube bolts.

Deliveries won't start next week as planned, but should be "soon"

[nthfinity]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081011/gm_chrysler_merger_talks.html

AP
Reports: Chrysler, GM discuss merger, acquisition
Saturday October 11, 1:31 am ET
Reports: Chrysler, General Motors discuss merger or acquisition of Chrysler by GM

DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have held preliminary talks about a merger or an acquisition of Chrysler by GM, according to published reports Saturday.

The Wall Street Journal, citing people it described as familiar with the discussions, said Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity firm that owns 80.1 percent of Chrysler and 51 percent of GMAC Financial Services, proposed trading Chrysler's automotive operations to GM. The Journal said Cerberus would receive GM's remaining 49 percent stake in GMAC.

The New York Times, also citing people familiar with the talks, said the automakers were discussing a merger. The Times did not mention GMAC, a traditional auto lender hit hard by the housing market downturn.

The talks have stalled because of the recent turmoil in the financial markets, according to the Journal. Its sources said negotiations could resume if markets stabilize because both GM and Cerberus want to quickly divest the assets under discussion.

The negotiations between 100-year-old GM and 83-year-old Chrysler began more than a month ago, according to the Times. Its sources said the chances of a merger were "50-50" as of Friday and likely would take weeks to complete.

Both newspapers posted their stories on their Web sites late Friday.

"Without referencing this specific rumor, as we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Tony Cervone said.

Chrysler spokeswoman Shawn Morgan declined comment.

I don't see the merger happening. GM couldn't viably "absorb" Chrysler without destroying 1/3 Jobs in s/e Michigan in the wake, and the Gov. intervening; and Cerberus retiring in haste to the Cayman Islands.

I'd say GM is ONLY interested in the Jeep brand... other options would be for platform sharing.

[RC45]

Makes no sense for this to happen

[HeilSvenska]

No. It shouldn't happen. And won't happen. Unless for some crazy reason, GM execs didn't learn anything from the FIAT fiasco. Additional bulk when downsizing is necessary = corporate suicide.

[10000rpmlover]

that would be like buying direct competition and utter suicide...

the challenger and the camaro under same brand... well tough choice there

I see lots of jobs lost in this merger, hope it never happens

[styla21]

I see lots of jobs lost in this merger, hope it never happens
Merger or not, appears that will be necessary regardless.

This rumor is heating up.. Wonder if it has traction? Watch this space.

[HeilSvenska]

^Nah. They had rumors like this before. Renault/GM ring any bell? It didn't happen, and it won't happen. I personally think that Chrysler has nothing to offer GM.

[nthfinity]

^Nah. They had rumors like this before. Renault/GM ring any bell? It didn't happen, and it won't happen. I personally think that Chrysler has nothing to offer GM.
its not the first time in 12 months that GM and Chrysler had talks of merger. GM would not offer more than what they did last time, which was peanuts.

[nthfinity]

GM suspending most product development for 2009, and 2010. And reducing engineering as well....

[HeilSvenska]

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) is delaying planned spending on product development for 2009 and 2010 in a bid to save cash, Automotive News reported on Wednesday.
The reduced spending, along with cuts to design, engineering and research budgets, could delay the launch of vehicles such as the Chevrolet Cruze, a fuel-efficient, small sedan that GM has touted as crucial to its turnaround effort, the newspaper said.
Automotive News quoted an unnamed person familiar with GM's plans as saying the cutbacks were aimed at saving as much as $1.5 billion.
GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said the automaker was reviewing its spending because of an industry-wide slump in sales, but declined to discuss whether specific vehicle programs such as the Cruze could be delayed as a result.
"We look at our portfolio on a monthly basis," he said. "We are looking at our capital spending in the midst of the industry downturn."
Wilkinson said GM was pushing ahead with development of the highly anticipated Chevy Volt, an all-electric car scheduled for release in 2010.
In May, GM scrapped development plans for a replacement platform for its full-size SUVs like the Cadillac Escalade because of a sharp and continued drop in demand for full-size sport utility vehicles.
More recently, GM has announced a series of stepped-up cost cutting as it battles to shore up its cash position amid a global slump in auto sales that threatens to overrun its restructuring plans.
In an unusual step also driven by cost cutting, GM said earlier this month that it was pulling two new models it had planned to display at the Los Angeles Auto show.
Without new borrowing or asset sales, GM is in danger of running dangerously low on cash in 2009, analysts have said. GM ended the second quarter with $21 billion in cash and has been burning through more than $1 billion per month. It needs a minimum of $11 billion to run its operations, GM has said.
The automaker has been in talks with Cerberus Capital Management since September about a merger with Chrysler LLC, the struggling No. 3 U.S. automaker owned by Cerberus.
GM has asked the government for $10 billion to support that transaction, which could also include a transfer of its remaining stake in finance company GMAC to Cerberus, sources familiar with those discussions have said.

[79TA]

I reeeeeeaally hope this merger never occurs. Chrysler would get chewed up and spit out and GM owning Jeep would just be weird.

[bluedemon]

I reeeeeeaally hope this merger never occurs. Chrysler would get chewed up and spit out and GM owning Jeep would just be weird.

Here's the thing though if they don't merge then I think the posibility of Chrysler going under is increased ten fold. I used to work for Roush Industries test driving cars and most of them were from Chrysler and my mom now works for them and they are terrified of losing their jobs because of this merger. It's strange for sure.

[nthfinity]

Here's the thing though if they don't merge then I think the posibility of Chrysler going under is increased ten fold. I used to work for Roush Industries test driving cars and most of them were from Chrysler and my mom now works for them and they are terrified of losing their jobs because of this merger. It's strange for sure.

Nope, GM is going to determine that it's not in their interest to take on a severely ailing Chrysler; and Chrysler will receive a second bailout; or, will be bought out by foreign entities.

[79TA]

Here's the thing though if they don't merge then I think the posibility of Chrysler going under is increased ten fold. I used to work for Roush Industries test driving cars and most of them were from Chrysler and my mom now works for them and they are terrified of losing their jobs because of this merger. It's strange for sure.

My neighbor across the street used to test drive for Roush until a couple of years ago. I just don't see Chrysler coming out of the merger very gracefully.

[nthfinity]

Michigan Economic Development Cooperation has announced a "city hall" style meeting for citizens of cities with either GM or Chrysler buildings within the city.

Stupid senator Levin says "supports the move to merge" and will cause "fewer job losses"

Expect 20,000 jobs to be lost. In Michigan alone.

From what I'm told, GM is against the move; however, it seems there are extrinsic forces behind the merger that are forcing the hand to be dealt.

This is the beginning of the end.

I suspect an announcement of the merger will come as early as Monday of next week.

[nthfinity]

GM / Chrysler merger is officially "off the table"

GM only has enough cash at the current rate to last through mid 2009.

[nthfinity]

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

I'm attaching an urgent request we have received from our General Motors clients. Please read the letter, and then I hope you will either call or write your elected representatives in Washington and ask them to support the automotive industry. GM has established a Web site that makes it very simple to express your point of view: www.gmfactsandfiction.com (http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com/) <http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com>

· To call, just click the "I'm a Supplier" button. Follow the directions, and you will be transferred to the offices of your representative or senators.
· To write, just click the "I'm a Concerned American" button, and there is a letter ready for you to forward.

Here's the request:
From: Betsy Lazar
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:34:09 -0500
Subject: Urgent Message From General Motors To our partners at IPG, Needless to say, it has been a challenging year, but your teams have been strong, and have demonstrated true partnership every step of the way. Thank you for all that you do for GM. It is no secret that the auto industry is at a crossroads. Companies that support millions of workers and families across the U.S. have been slammed by the worst economic downturn in 75 years. Particularly frustrating is that this crisis struck just at a time when these companies were successfully restructuring themselves and creating a new generation of cleaner, more efficient vehicles. This progress, and the very existence of the U.S.-based auto industry, is threatened. Discussions are now underway in Washington D.C. about government support for this vital industry through this downturn. We are asking for your support, too. The U.S auto industry has been hit at every level by the global financial crisis. Carmakers can't get loans to complete their restructuring and put advanced technology vehicles into production. Customers can't get credit for new cars, and consumer confidence has plunged to an all-time low. Suppliers and dealers can't get loans for routine business needs. This crisis caught the U.S. auto industry in the midst of a successful restructuring. Domestic carmakers have closed the productivity gap with their global competitors, and GM has closed the quality gap as well. New labor agreements are in place to make U.S. manufacturers' costs competitive with non-union transplant factories. Since 2005, GM has taken a series of bold steps to restructure its business and reduce its structural cost. In fact, since 2005, GM has reduced structural cost in North America by over $9 billion. And more recently, GM has outlined plans to enhance its liquidity position by $20 billion through 2009. And, we've tightened our belt in hundreds of other ways, large and small - some of which you have felt too. On the product front, we have introduced a series of award-winning products, including the Saturn Aura, Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu and Buick Enclave. Today, we have the most models that get an EPA-estimated 30 mpg or better on the highway, more vehicles capable of running on E85 ethanol than any other automaker and a wide variety of hybrids, one for every need. We are also testing the world's largest fleet of hydrogen-powered cars right now and are committed to building the Chevy Volt extended-range electric car in 2010. However, faced with the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and the worst car sales since World War II, this hasn't been enough. This current crisis knows no geographic boundaries. What happens to the U.S. auto industry also had an immediate impact on Main Street. U.S.-based carmakers have 105 plants in 20 states, including California, Texas, Kansas, Louisiana and Maryland. They support 14,000 dealers across the country, and these dealers in turn employ 740,000 people, with a total payroll of $35 billion a year. The companies buy $156 billion in parts and services from suppliers in every state. The auto companies provide pensions for 775,000 and health care benefits for 2 million. Because carmakers are so tightly woven into the fabric of the U.S. economy, the collapse of this industry would reach far beyond Detroit. The Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor predicts that a collapse of U.S.-based carmakers would lead to widespread failures of supplier companies, already pushed to the brink by the downturn, and this in turn would shut down the transplant factories owned by Toyota, Honda and other non-U.S. companies. Shockwaves through the economy would quickly put nearly 3 million people out of work. In the first year alone, personal income would drop by $150 billion, and tax and social security receipts would fall by more than $45 billion. Faced with these risks to the well-being of millions of Americans, and to the U.S. economy as a whole, it is clear to us that government support is a sound investment in an important industry, and in America itself. The Aura, CTS, Malibu and Enclave show that GM can compete with the best. Our aggressive restructuring and rapid global growth shows our commitment to reinventing our company. And the Chevy Volt and other advanced technology vehicles show our passion for being a leader in reinventing the automobile. Please share this information with all of your employees, friends and family, and other stakeholders. We hope you will ask your legislators and other political leaders to support the U.S. auto industry through this critical transformation. It's easy and turnkey. Please take a minute to go to www.gmfactsandfiction.com (http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com/) <http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com> to show your support and let your voice be heard. To give you more context and the facts, attached are some industry talking points and the study recently released by industry analyst, David Cole, with the Center for Automotive Research (CAR), entitled: "The Impact of the U.S. Economy of a Major Contraction of the Detroit Three Automakers." Thank you for continued support.

Respectfully,
Betsy Lazar
Executive Director, Advertising and Media Operations
General Motors Corporation

[f430monzalover]

I am a proud American, and I will be very upset if this happens, but for many years I personally know people that have been trying to give GM, Ford, etc. suggestions about possible car and investment ideas and all of them were brushed off. I am in the market for a new car and when I look at what a GM costs compared to its japanese counterparts, I can't bring myself to buy a poorly made GM, that will last half the time that a Toyota will and depreciate at the speed of light. GM really cannot be surprised at what is happening. What do they want, our tax money to keep them afloat while they "restructure". Thats like trying to fix the Titanic while it was sinking. Not going to work.

[nthfinity]

I am a proud American, and I will be very upset if this happens, but for many years I personally know people that have been trying to give GM, Ford, etc. suggestions about possible car and investment ideas and all of them were brushed off. I am in the market for a new car and when I look at what a GM costs compared to its japanese counterparts, I can't bring myself to buy a poorly made GM, that will last half the time that a Toyota will and depreciate at the speed of light. GM really cannot be surprised at what is happening. What do they want, our tax money to keep them afloat while they "restructure". Thats like trying to fix the Titanic while it was sinking. Not going to work.

It's statements like this ignoramus that make me worried about the future of this country :-\ :thumbdown:

[RC45]

I am a proud American, and I will be very upset if this happens, but for many years I personally know people that have been trying to give GM, Ford, etc. suggestions about possible car and investment ideas and all of them were brushed off. I am in the market for a new car and when I look at what a GM costs compared to its japanese counterparts, I can't bring myself to buy a poorly made GM, that will last half the time that a Toyota will and depreciate at the speed of light. GM really cannot be surprised at what is happening. What do they want, our tax money to keep them afloat while they "restructure". Thats like trying to fix the Titanic while it was sinking. Not going to work.

Well, as soon as those "Japanese counterparts" built in Tennessee etc get forced to join the UAW, they will also suffer the same fate GM and Ford do.

It's the UAW no tthe cars.

[f430monzalover]

Thanks for the "ignoramus" Ding Dong. Open debate. If you don't like what I have to say fine. That's my point of view. Don't have to be insulting. It's that attitude that has me worried about the future of OUR country.

[philip]

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

I'm attaching an urgent request we have received from our General Motors clients. Please read the letter, and then I hope you will either call or write your elected representatives in Washington and ask them to support the automotive industry. GM has established a Web site that makes it very simple to express your point of view: www.gmfactsandfiction.com (http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com/) <http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com>

· To call, just click the "I'm a Supplier" button. Follow the directions, and you will be transferred to the offices of your representative or senators.
· To write, just click the "I'm a Concerned American" button, and there is a letter ready for you to forward.

Here's the request:
From: Betsy Lazar
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:34:09 -0500
Subject: Urgent Message From General Motors To our partners at IPG, Needless to say, it has been a challenging year, but your teams have been strong, and have demonstrated true partnership every step of the way. Thank you for all that you do for GM. It is no secret that the auto industry is at a crossroads. Companies that support millions of workers and families across the U.S. have been slammed by the worst economic downturn in 75 years. Particularly frustrating is that this crisis struck just at a time when these companies were successfully restructuring themselves and creating a new generation of cleaner, more efficient vehicles. This progress, and the very existence of the U.S.-based auto industry, is threatened. Discussions are now underway in Washington D.C. about government support for this vital industry through this downturn. We are asking for your support, too. The U.S auto industry has been hit at every level by the global financial crisis. Carmakers can't get loans to complete their restructuring and put advanced technology vehicles into production. Customers can't get credit for new cars, and consumer confidence has plunged to an all-time low. Suppliers and dealers can't get loans for routine business needs. This crisis caught the U.S. auto industry in the midst of a successful restructuring. Domestic carmakers have closed the productivity gap with their global competitors, and GM has closed the quality gap as well. New labor agreements are in place to make U.S. manufacturers' costs competitive with non-union transplant factories. Since 2005, GM has taken a series of bold steps to restructure its business and reduce its structural cost. In fact, since 2005, GM has reduced structural cost in North America by over $9 billion. And more recently, GM has outlined plans to enhance its liquidity position by $20 billion through 2009. And, we've tightened our belt in hundreds of other ways, large and small - some of which you have felt too. On the product front, we have introduced a series of award-winning products, including the Saturn Aura, Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu and Buick Enclave. Today, we have the most models that get an EPA-estimated 30 mpg or better on the highway, more vehicles capable of running on E85 ethanol than any other automaker and a wide variety of hybrids, one for every need. We are also testing the world's largest fleet of hydrogen-powered cars right now and are committed to building the Chevy Volt extended-range electric car in 2010. However, faced with the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and the worst car sales since World War II, this hasn't been enough. This current crisis knows no geographic boundaries. What happens to the U.S. auto industry also had an immediate impact on Main Street. U.S.-based carmakers have 105 plants in 20 states, including California, Texas, Kansas, Louisiana and Maryland. They support 14,000 dealers across the country, and these dealers in turn employ 740,000 people, with a total payroll of $35 billion a year. The companies buy $156 billion in parts and services from suppliers in every state. The auto companies provide pensions for 775,000 and health care benefits for 2 million. Because carmakers are so tightly woven into the fabric of the U.S. economy, the collapse of this industry would reach far beyond Detroit. The Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor predicts that a collapse of U.S.-based carmakers would lead to widespread failures of supplier companies, already pushed to the brink by the downturn, and this in turn would shut down the transplant factories owned by Toyota, Honda and other non-U.S. companies. Shockwaves through the economy would quickly put nearly 3 million people out of work. In the first year alone, personal income would drop by $150 billion, and tax and social security receipts would fall by more than $45 billion. Faced with these risks to the well-being of millions of Americans, and to the U.S. economy as a whole, it is clear to us that government support is a sound investment in an important industry, and in America itself. The Aura, CTS, Malibu and Enclave show that GM can compete with the best. Our aggressive restructuring and rapid global growth shows our commitment to reinventing our company. And the Chevy Volt and other advanced technology vehicles show our passion for being a leader in reinventing the automobile. Please share this information with all of your employees, friends and family, and other stakeholders. We hope you will ask your legislators and other political leaders to support the U.S. auto industry through this critical transformation. It's easy and turnkey. Please take a minute to go to www.gmfactsandfiction.com (http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com/) <http://www.gmfactsandfiction.com> to show your support and let your voice be heard. To give you more context and the facts, attached are some industry talking points and the study recently released by industry analyst, David Cole, with the Center for Automotive Research (CAR), entitled: "The Impact of the U.S. Economy of a Major Contraction of the Detroit Three Automakers." Thank you for continued support.

Respectfully,
Betsy Lazar
Executive Director, Advertising and Media Operations
General Motors Corporation

uh Betsy..... Paragraphs please. After all your in Advertising and an Executive Director. Your lending credence to the Darwin theory being espoused by some here.

[RC45]

Betsy Lazy? I wonder if she is a UAW member?

[nthfinity]

Thanks for the "ignoramus" Ding Dong. Open debate. If you don't like what I have to say fine. That's my point of view. Don't have to be insulting. It's that attitude that has me worried about the future of OUR country.
you are simply proving you have no clue about anything in the industry, and only have perceptions, and prejudices based on those perceptions. No matter what the reality is. That is why your statement is completely ignoramus. Opinions like have zero credibility.

BTW, "Ding dong... Kwame's gone" Maybe I'll change it again soon ;)

[Mattk]

Toyota's interior finishing has always been fairly average. Perhaps the 'quality' is in the engine, transmission etc, but I'm not convinced because there's no concrete evidence to suggest that's the case.

That said, some American cars are absolute rubbish, criticised for having ridiculously light steering and excessive roll during corners. Maybe that's the way some people like it, although I can't imagine why.

[HeilSvenska]

Good afternoon, Camaro Comrades, Firebird Friends, and Corvette Cousins............

As you may know, the GM Heritage Collection numbers in the many hundreds of cars and trucks - from 'first builts' and 'last builts' to one-off show cars to SEMA show cars.

The Decision has been made to sell off select vehicles. (Indeed, a sad day for some of us......)

There's a little of everything -- from the Legendary Buick Blackhawk -- to (are you sitting down?) a COUPLE of 1989 Corvette ZR1s -- the Jon Moss built Track-dominating Black 572 ZL1 -- A C5 Alpha and a C5 Beta -- The Tiger Shark -- the LT5 Camaro -- a 1904 Olds Touring -- several GTOS -- both old and new -- a couple of 1970 muscle cars -- a mid nineties "510" Impala SS -- and many, many pace cars and trucks.

This may be the time to break open the piggy bank.................

PLEASE NOTE:

>This is a preliminary list -- it is very likely subject to change -

>Barrett-Jackson will, in the coming week or two, put out pictures of each of these cars on their website.

>This is the Scottsdale, AZ auction -- January 13-19, 2009.

>Please feel free to share with your club members and friends

Model
1955 Buick Century
Bolero
2001 Blackhawk
G6 Rolex Pace
2007 Corvette Indy Pace/copper
2008 Corvette Indy Pace/black
1918 Cadillac
1995 Riveria Convertible
1993 Allante Pace car
1996 Presidential Limo
1998 Popemobile
1999 Eldorod
Indy Pennzoil IRL #4 (yellow)
Indy Pennzoil Panther Racing (yellow)
2003 EXT - M
2004 CTS Super V
2004 SRX Hot Wheels
2004 SRX SEMA
2005 STS MCE Integration
2006 DTS Appearance Pkg
2007 Escalade Limo
2007 Escalade SEMA
2008 CTS Sport
LMP #8
1925 Chevrolet House Car (Blue/Black)
1948 Chevy I-5 Vortech
1960 Impala
1972 Impala
2004 M/C Rock&Roll Pace (blue/yellow)
1987 Chevrolet Sprint Turbo Convertible
1989 Corvette DR-1
1989 Corvette Snake Skinner
1989 Corvette Splash
1989 Corvette ZR-1
1989 Corvette ZR-1 (Dark Red)
1989 Corvette ZR-2 Big Doggie
1989 Tracker Boom Box
1989 Zonker
1990 Corvette Right Hand Steer
1990 Corvette ZR-1 Active
1991 Caprice Classic
1991 Corvette Convertible
1991 Syclone PPG Pace
1991 Tracker Dirt
1992 Corvette ZR-1 First Built (Red)
1992 Impala SS 510
1993 Camaro ZL-1 "572"
1993 Corvette LT-1 Spyder
1993 Typhoon
1994 Corvette (Teal)
1994 Impala SS 6 Speed
1994 Impala Wagon
1994 Tracker Kalahari
1995 Monte Carlo Led Sled
1995 Monte Carlo Pro Street
1996 Camaro Brickyard Pace
1997 Corvette Alpha Build
1997 Corvette Beta Build
1997 Corvette Tiger Shark
2005 M/C Rock&Roll Pace (red)
1997 Monte Carlo Intimidator
1998 Camaro Drag
1998 Corvette First Built
1998 Corvette X-plorers
1999 Corvette C5R Show Car
1999 Corvette Shark
1999 Silverado Tonka
2000 Corvette Z06 Race
2000 Monte Carlo Brickyard #3
2000 Tahoe K5
2001 Impala Low Rider
2001 Monte Carlo Drag
Silverado #17 GMAC Racetruck
2001 Silverado Intimidator SS (Black)
2006 Silverado Craftsman Pace Flex Fuel #2
2002 Camaro Police
2002 Cavalier 425 A/FX Drag
2002 Monte Carlo Looney Tunes Pace
2002 S-10 Little Red
2003 Aveo Xtreme
2003 Corvette Lemans Pace #3
2003 Monte Carlo Rock & Roll Race
2004 Aveo X-treme
2004 Colorado SS Dark Cherry
2004 Colorado Xtreme
2004 Colorado Z-71 Vision
2004 Corvette Indy Pace
2004 Impala SS Project Vehicle
2004 Malibu Maxx SS
2004 Malibu Xtreme 2004
2004 Monte Carlo Dale Earnhardt Jr.
2004 Monte Carlo Tony Stewart
2004 Silverado Speedway
Solstice "Jazz" Transformer Movie Vehicle
1969 Reggie Jackson Camaro (red)
1990 Beretta Indy Pace
2004 Escalade Pinnacle (black)
Holden Race Car #22 (red)
2000 STS Saftey
2007 Yukon "CSI Vegas" (used in filming of show)
2003 Rendezvous CXL
1998 Rivera (teal)
2005 Colorado CC Z71
2005 Corvette Atlantic
2005 Corvette Pacific
2005 Equinox Xtreme
2004 Suburban Quadsteer
2006 HHR Official Tailgate Crew
2006 HHR Open Air
2006 HHR Panel
2006 HHR Panel Tuner
2006 HHR Xplorer Scout
2006 HHR Yearone
1995 Aurora (red)
2007 Avalanche Z-71 Plus
2007 Corvette Z06 First Built (Red)
2007 HHR SS Panel Motor City (Flat Gray)
2007 Silverado "Big Red"
2007 Silverado CC Rally Sport
2007 Silverado Country Music
2007 Silverado E85 Handy Man
1985 Calais "MSU"
2007 Silverado OCC
2007 Silverado Roadside
2007 SilveradoZ71 Orange
2007 Suburban HD Diesel
2007 Suburban Major League Baseball (Blue)
2007 Tahoe Foose
2007 Tahoe US Ski Team
Camaro Trans Am 2 seater
C/K 1500 Supertruck Chevy 2 Seat
Camaro GTZ
Camaro LT5
Corvette C5 Display Chassis
Corvette Purple Smash
Corvette Racing Boat
Corvette Trailer
Corvette ZR1 Rolling Chassis
HHR Floral
Holden Race Car (Red)
Kappa Chassis
S-10 Drag
S-10 Off Road Truck
S-10 Race Truck (Red)
S-10 Stadium Truck
2003 Centieme Concept
1916 GMC Stake Truck
1917 GMC Trailer
1948 GMC Firetruck
1978 GMC Suburban (Brown/Cream)
2003 Rollback
2004 Canyon Kayak
2004 Envoy Race Truck
2004 Envoy Water Sports
2007 Sierra All Terrain Crew
2007 Sierra HD Denali
Caprice "Fire & Rescue"
2007 Sierra Texas Edition
2007 Yukon Denali Jay-Z (Blue)
2007 Yukon XL Big Max
2007 Yukon All Terrain
2003 Hummer Spring Special
2005 Hummer Dirt Sport
2005 Hummer H2 Slant Back
2006 H3 street
2006 HHR Spring Special (Cappucino Frost)
2007 H2 Safari
2008 H3R SEMA
1994 Corvette HO
Corvette ZR 1 Snake Skinner
1904 Olds Touring Runabout
1923 Olds
1931 Olds Chassis
1940 Olds Blue
1949 Olds (Green)
1954 Olds Ninety Eight
1960 Olds 88 (White)
1970 Cutlass SX
1970 Olds 442 W30
1977 Olds Delta 88 Indy Pace
1995 Cutlass Darth Vadar
1995 Cutlass Mobil Net Race
1998 Intrigue 1998 (Blue)
1999 Intrigue 442
1999 Silhouette OSV #2
2001 Bravada Indy Pace
2002 Intrigue Last 2002
Aurora Exxon Race GTS (Gold/White)
Aurora IRL Race Car Cut-Away #5
Aurora IRL Race Car Cut-Away #5
1985 Peugeot 205 Turbo (Gray)
1985 Peugeot 205 Turbo Active (Gray)
1926 Pontiac
1926 Pontiac (Gray/Black)
1968 Pontiac Cataline (White)
1969 Pontiac GTO (Green)
1969 Pontiac GTO Judge (Orange/Yellow)
1980 Pontiac Grand Am Pickup
1994 Firebird Lingenfelter 383
1999 Grand Am SCT
2003 Sunfire X-plores (Yellow)
2006 Solstice DTP (Orange)
1967 GTO XXX Hardtop
1984 Fiero GT 2+2
1986 Firebird Trans Am Kamback
1987 Fiero GT Convertible
1991 Firebird Trans Am Twin Turbo
1993 Firebird IMSA Race car
1994 Firebird Firmula V8
1994 Firebird Trans Am 25th Ann.
1998 Firebird Trans Am Gold Rush
1998 Firebird Trans Am X-plorers
1998 Grand Prix M&M Pace
2000 Bonneville Salt Flats
2000 Firebird Rytek Project
2000 Firebird Trans Am Darth Vader
CTS-VR Race Replica (black)
2001 Aztek First Built (Black)
2001 Aztek Pace #1 (Red)
2001 Aztek SRV
2002 Firebird Trans Am Daytona Pace #2
2003 Grand AM Autocross
2003 Vibe Autocross Sema
2003 Vibe FX
2004 Grand Prix GXP SEMA
2004 GTO 1st built
2005 Firedbird Trans Am Collectors Ed.
2005 GTO SEMA
2006 Solstice Red Bull Drifter
2006 Solstice Weekend Racer
Fiero Goodwrench Race
Grand Am #85 race car
Grand Prix (show car)
GTO Drag Performance Parts
Firebird Mobil Race Car
1991 Saturn 4 Door 1991 (White)
1995 Saturn 1 Millionth
1999 Saturn 2 Millionth
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Saturn Vue Spring Special
2004 Vue Red Line Street Play
Saturn Lola Race Car
1999 Grand Prix GT (red)
Regal Cielo Open Air
2001 Regal GNX
2002 Rendezvous Inca Trail (grey)
2002 Rendezvous Tour Edition SC
GTP Ultrlite (teal)
900 Pikes Peak
Malibu Friday Night Cruiser

[nthfinity]

http://jalopnik.com/5113113/gm-to-auction-near+classics-from-corporate-museum
I'm glad I've been to the Heritage Center a few times... Should be interesting at Barret with so many cars stuffing the ballot... will there be an unprecedented additional day to BJ this year?

[HeilSvenska]

I want the Darth Vader Cutlass.

[nthfinity]

I want the Darth Vader Cutlass.

with Barret prices the way they are going... you may want to buy a bidding pass :mrgreen:

[nthfinity]

Bob Lutz, hired to lead GM product revival, is retiring (http://www.autonews.com/article/20090209/ANA02/902090277/1178)
Powertrain chief Stephens will replace 76-year-old icon
(http://www.autonews.com/article/20090209/ANA02/902090277/1178)
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
10:11 am U.S. ET | Feb. 9
UPDATED: 2/9/09 11:49 a.m. EST
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=CA&Dato=20090209&Kategori=ANA02&Lopenr=902090277&Ref=AR&Q=100&border=0&MaxW=120&MaxH=90 (http://www.autonews.com/article/20090209/ANA02/902090277/1178)Bob Lutz, the former Chrysler Corp. president who was hired at the age of 69 to lead a product renaissance at General Motors, is retiring. Lutz, 76, will become vice chairman and senior adviser on April 1 and retire at the end of the year. He will be replaced by powertrain and quality chief Tom Stephens.

[79TA]

:crying:

[10000rpmlover]

retire april 1st?

bwahahahaha do you really believe it?

why the long face 79? I know I know... but no matter how many temper tantrums he threw, the board still said no to a pontiac trans am revival, I got the inside scoop on that, would have been nice, but i think GM wants to kill off pontiac as a brand, they should drop buick though, I certainly like some pontiacs too

[HeilSvenska]

Buick's too big in China to kill. Saturn will be killed before Pontiac. And Pontiac may be reduced to like a two car brand. That's what I've been hearing.

[Mattk]

Yeah, Buick China is what has kept GM alive and is what will keep GM alive. Lutz was an erudite man with a realistic outlook, but still championed real cars. Significantly for Holden, he championed the Monaro and Commodore for import as the GTO and G8.

[nthfinity]

retire april 1st?

bwahahahaha do you really believe it?

why the long face 79? I know I know... but no matter how many temper tantrums he threw, the board still said no to a pontiac trans am revival, I got the inside scoop on that, would have been nice, but i think GM wants to kill off pontiac as a brand, they should drop buick though, I certainly like some pontiacs too

officially, he's out at the end of 2009; but steps down from his position on April 1st. There is a very difficult battle internally at GM; the current leader is clear.

[nthfinity]

CTS-V is officially dead... what a damn shame

DETROIT -- General Motors, focusing on mainstream products in a battle to survive, has scrapped a unit that produced high-performance vehicles.

GM today disbanded High Performance Vehicle Operations, which is based at the company's suburban Detroit technical center, and redeployed its engineers, said spokesman Vince Muniga.

"All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold," Muniga said. "The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs."

The unit created low-volume vehicles for GM's divisions designed to appeal to enthusiasts and bolster the company's image. Products included V-series Cadillacs and the Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS and a V-8 version of the Colorado.

Muniga said there are no plans for high-performance versions of upcoming cars.The move is in the spirit of GM's viability plan delivered to the U.S. Treasury Department on Tuesday. In the plan, GM said its future-product focus is on fuel- efficient cars and crossovers. It also pledged to increase its current offering of six hybrids to 14 by 2012 and to 26 by 2014. GM also boosted its request for federal aid by as much as $16.6 billion.

[HeilSvenska]

Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HeilSvenska]

Saturn maybe. But never Pontiac. I'd rather see Pontiac's tombstone next to Oldsmobile than to see it whored out to anyone. But those brands are worthless. That's what they are. Brands. Hummer at least carries an image, but Saturn and Pontiac do not register at all outside North America. They don't have their own technology. Everything Saturn and Pontiac sold is based off some other car in the massive GM empire. It makes for cheaper development, but also drastically lowers the brand value. And identity.

[Minacious]

CTS-V is officially dead... what a damn shame

That right there is a damn shame. One of their best achievements kicked to the wayside.

Good job GM.

[5vz-fe]

So all they have left is the Corvette.

For ppl that would buy the Corvette, maybe they want to make their money more sound and buy a 4 door and now they have no other choices but to go German.

[HeilSvenska]

So all they have left is the Corvette.

For ppl that would buy the Corvette, maybe they want to make their money more sound and buy a 4 door and now they have no other choices but to go German.
There isn't a C6 replacement though. And CTS is still in production. Only few would've opted for a CTS-V anyway. But that massive halo effect now has come crashing down into the abyss.

[HeilSvenska]

When General Motors made the announcement yesterday that it was shutting down it High Performance Vehicle Operations (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/18/breaking-gm-disbands-high-performance-vehicle-operations/), a few questions surfaced about what would happen to the models that haven't hit dealers but are still in the pipeline. While the answers seemed obvious to us (development's done so they're still on the way), GM spokesman Vince Muniga sought to address the concerns of enthusiasts.

Muniga told InsideLine that the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS is coming out and "is not threatened at all." Furthermore, and just as obvious, the Cadillac CTS-V, Cobalt SS and HHR SS will soldier on until their production run ends, and vehicles like the Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Z06 – all of which were developed as regular production models, not through HPVO – are safe.

The 60 or so engineers behind the HPVO team are still receiving paychecks with Wagoner's signature and have begun working on everything from passenger vehicles to crossovers. According to Muniga, "We're not going to let those talents go to waste."
:crying:

[79TA]

Well, thankfully it seems that models currently in production (or already developed like the Camaro) will at least get to run out their product cycles, so the V's, ZR1's and SS's will keep coming for a couple/few years . . . right?

[fordgt84]

wow the best high performance sedan out there is being put to sleep...what a damn shame :-(

how many cts-v's have been made so far?

[79TA]

wow the best high performance sedan out there is being put to sleep...what a damn shame :-(

how many cts-v's have been made so far?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/19/2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-safe-from-hpvo-shuttering/

So far as I can tell, the V is not being killed, but it won't be back for the next generation CTS.

[nthfinity]

http://www.reuters.com/article/reuterscomService5/idUSTRE5B103S20091202

UAW-Obama placed chief of the board forces Fritz Henderson to "resign" and takes over in interim himself. GM is completely out of private leadership now. Another milestone, and depressing day in Michigan.

[nthfinity]

http://jalopnik.com/5858683/exclusive-this-is-the-2014-chevy-corvette

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/d2daf6e012dd8fce517f25acb330303b.jpg

[RC45]

You already know my opinion... ;) hehe

[nthfinity]

You already know my opinion... ;) hehe

Yeah, but I can't say I agree with you on the C6 ZR1's looks at all. Good from some angles, but it doesn't hit the spot for me. Edge styling on the Cadillac's works; but not on a Vette so well.

I just had a funny thought... how about a split window FRC LMAO!

[Minacious]

I just had a funny thought... how about a split window FRC LMAO!

Yuck.

[Vansquish]

I'm not convinced...it appears to have lost quite a bit of "Corvette-ness", and is becoming a bit more of a sort of generic super/sports car.

[nthfinity]

I'm not convinced...it appears to have lost quite a bit of "Corvette-ness", and is becoming a bit more of a sort of generic super/sports car.
without saying too much; the Corvette engineers put a huge target on Nissan in very specific goals. The GTR, as much as I am not a fan of it, was simply huge to the Corvette guy's at the General. Aerodynamics is a big part of that.

I'm also going to say that Jalopnik's release was no accident. Especially when looking at the Media embargo of the 2013 GT500 specs ending last night at midnight.

[RC45]

without saying too much; the Corvette engineers put a huge target on Nissan in very specific goals. The GTR, as much as I am not a fan of it, was simply huge to the Corvette guy's at the General. Aerodynamics is a big part of that.

I'm also going to say that Jalopnik's release was no accident. Especially when looking at the Media embargo of the 2013 GT500 specs ending last night at midnight.

And that was stupid.

Corvette shoppers where not cross-shopping to the GT-R, they where and are cross shopping to the Porsche turbo.

Corvette's bread and butter is repeat traditionalist buyers - if they alienate that group the brand will suffer huge sales losses.

Porsche have kept the 911 recipe the same for a reason, it is the recipe that makes money - and no matter what anyone thinks, the moment Corvette as a brand stops making money is the moment it it gone.

Styling the Corvette to look like a 4 seat Nissan does nothing but cause confusion amongs the masses - and the masses are the ones that spend money on the Corvette.

I'm not convinced...it appears to have lost quite a bit of "Corvette-ness", and is becoming a bit more of a sort of generic super/sports car.

Much like the C4 - and history is showing us that the C4 tried so hard to be the 'Euro Vette' is sort of lost direction for a while.

Hopefully the C7 is not going to be a similar bland car.

[nthfinity]

When the new guy in town makes a similarly priced car in the same segment that does everything you are supposed to do, but better; it's no surprise. But in general, I agree with you.

There are some things the C7 needs to do better, and one of them is manage airflow over the car/under the car/ and through the engine better, raise the interior quality level, avoid any voiding warranty issues with the forthcoming AT, do away with Transverse leafsprings. While they have worked great, I'd just rep em out :)

[RC45]

When the new guy in town makes a similarly priced car in the same segment that does everything you are supposed to do, but better; it's no surprise. But in general, I agree with you.

There are some things the C7 needs to do better, and one of them is manage airflow over the car/under the car/ and through the engine better, raise the interior quality level, avoid any voiding warranty issues with the forthcoming AT, do away with Transverse leafsprings. While they have worked great, I'd just rep em out :)

Why make any of those changes?

None of them will net more sales or make the car perform any better in a day to day world - which is where most Corvettes live.

The reason the Corvette has been the single longest survivng performance car model in the history of the automotive world is because changes where not simply made for the sake of chanes.

The GT-R took no sales from Corvette, they coul dbarely meet internal sales quotas.

Changing the formula will dilute the Corvette brand and harm sales and profits.

:)

K.I.S.S.

[nthfinity]

The Jalop's are are stretching the truth, and knew it ;)
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb164/ApexOversteer/8517f69a.jpg

C7? No, more like Carvaggio

Why make any of those changes?

None of them will net more sales or make the car perform any better in a day to day world - which is where most Corvettes live.

The reason the Corvette has been the single longest survivng performance car model in the history of the automotive world is because changes where not simply made for the sake of chanes.

The GT-R took no sales from Corvette, they coul dbarely meet internal sales quotas.

Changing the formula will dilute the Corvette brand and harm sales and profits.

:)

K.I.S.S.

:)

However, the best way to earn more profit, which is what we are all in it for... right? The best way is to enter new markets without sacrificing the old markets. IE worldwide sales. Ford is learning this. GM tried to do it with it's failing brands via badge engineering, and failed.