Blue Devil Vette to be produced - now called Sting Ray

[bmagni]

600 hp... though doesn't say if its gonna be supercharged or NA

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE

[Bernardo]

link doesnt work for me

[RC45]

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

cool stuff :D :D

Will never happen.

It's a free system - you have the money - you buy it. GM needs trhe money, they will not turn anyone away.

You don't need any special license to buy a 190mph 0-60mph in 1.9s $10,000 super bike... why should they have this requirement for dog slow roawd car? ;)

[Stikz]

As Borat would say, "I like, Jagshemash!!!"

:D

How different is it going to be from a Z06 in terms of styling?

[black_magician]

remember it's still not euro... :P

[dannyroz]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

[bmagni]

600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

right, I wonder how much tuning will the Vette owners will do... if they'd pumped out 800 hp and 1000 hp (but thats too insane) from a 400 hp, what will they do with 600 hp from the factory... anyways theyll start braggin about how their low cost tuned car can beat an enzo... for less than half the price... without expensive oil change... and for less cost... and not having to spend so much... :P

[coloradosilver]

It;ll be cheaper to buy a Z06 and mod it to 800 hp than it will be to pay whatever dealers charge for this super vette with only 600 hp.

Shit, there are already tuners that have a headers and cam package that puts down 0ver 550 RWHP (about 690 hp at the fly) for a few thousand dollars.

[nthfinity]

not going to say "see i told you so" i promice :wink:

[RC45]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

[nthfinity]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

its got such poor suspension, that other 500+ hp exotic supercars lap in 7:50, 7:55 etc.

with 600++ hp, that will reduce the time by 4-5 seconds over the course length... however the "media named" blue devil will feature heavily revised aerodynamics; further use of exotic materials; and likely be less weight then the already lighter-then-most-exotics 3100 lbs.

GM is vying for Nurburgring production car lap record. sub 7:32 is realistic

that is poor suspension, my friend

[ZfrkS62]

600 hp... though doesn't say if its gonna be supercharged or NA

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE

It'll be NA. Americans know how to build high HP engines without forcefeeding them :wink:

[nthfinity]

600 hp... though doesn't say if its gonna be supercharged or NA

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE

It'll be NA. Americans know how to build high HP engines without forcefeeding them :wink:

ive already seen the S/C'd engine, hidden in another vehicle.

[ZfrkS62]

600 hp... though doesn't say if its gonna be supercharged or NA

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE

It'll be NA. Americans know how to build high HP engines without forcefeeding them :wink:

ive already seen the S/C'd engine, hidden in another vehicle.

LIAR!!!! :lol:

[TeflonTron]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

How many runs around the 'ring did GM take to set that time? 1? 100? How much of the suspension was tweaked according to each run to get a better time on the next lap?

[RC45]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

How many runs around the 'ring did GM take to set that time? 1? 100? How much of the suspension was tweaked according to each run to get a better time on the next lap?

Nth - here another one for you to take up.

How many runs - who the fuck cares - do you ask "How many runs does it take Porsche to perfect the 911 or CGT setup?"

I didn't think so.

The suspension was STOCK - all adjustments were within specs of the STOCK car. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the Sachs shocks used on the run are on the STOCK car.. the Goodyear Tyres used on the run are the STOCK tyres on the car... oh and the heigh adjustment? The car has a height adjustable suspension STOCK

Exactly how many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly how many times do you have to see information posted by long time senior members who have NEVER posted bullshit, and in fact go out of their way to ONLY post facts and truth and in fact were invited to participate from an early time becaus eof the FACTS and HONESTY, before you take the informaiton on face value?

I will answer for you - You and others will NEVER accept this informaiotn because it doesn't fit in with your stupid Jeremy Clarkson view of al things American.

Why don't you call st-anger out for posting bullshit abou tPorsches?

Well?

Why do you simply accept what he says and posts for the facts they are?

I will tell you why - because he is posting about goddamned european car - thats' why.

And that is why I am leaving JW Because of this shit that continues year in and year out.

Have at it nth... good luck, you will need it.

[LotusGT1]

Stop being such a drama queen. You're taking this too far right now....

I mean, you're not going to let a guy driving a Golf with extensive bodykit tell you what a performance car is, now aren't you? ;)

[RC45]

Stop being such a drama queen. You're taking this too far right now....

No it is not being taken to far - this is the point.

JW has been up for 3 years.

That is over 1000 days .. and every single day has some uninformed person making some comment about "shit americna this or shit american that" - followed 34 other uninformed yahoos with "Yeah - they sure suck at this and that blah blah blah"...

Day in and day out.

Every signle post concerning the Viper, vette, GT etc has to have somebody jump in with a "suck can't turn is crap blah blah" and then followed up by the same story again and again.

People are free to have what ever opinion they wan t- but it would seem that the facts that disprove those opinions are ignored and discarded and then uninformed commenst are made and yet more false information is perpetuated.

JW was originally intended to be a fun GLOBAL community - not to be a "eurofan" community with snide remarks leveled at every american all the time.

I have probably 50 people I have NOT invited to join JW because they would be very dissapointed in the immature opiions and comments and attitudes directed by many "euro fan boys".

TeflonTrons comment is a perfect example.

You don't see comments of Porsche or Ferrari prowess quesitoned like this.. and if they were, they would be accepted as soon as an aswer was given.

Here we are 3 years later and still this crap continues.

This is NOT the spirits and intent that Jabba had in mind - and I know, he invited me to join knowing exactly why I left RF, and the assurance was "This is a different bunch - they are true enthusiasts - they are reasonable - they will listen to reason and be fun to be around".

well - he was right, but we have lost so many of the original core group, and many of those that remain show their true colours daily.

This place was fun - now it's not.

[nthfinity]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

How many runs around the 'ring did GM take to set that time? 1? 100? How much of the suspension was tweaked according to each run to get a better time on the next lap?

GM only spent 2 weeks in germany testing if memory serves.

in that time, the hot lap was the second of three laps. a warm up lap, hot lap, and a cool down lap with Jan Magnusun at the helm.

prior to setting the amazing lap time; who knows how much the Z06 team adjusted camber, castor; how many clicks on the suspension; ride height etc. it doesn't matter.

q:how many times to race cars change thier geometries prior to a race?
a: as many times as nessisary to get the pilot both comfortable, and as fast as he possibly can lap after lap.

the point is, the settings on the hot-lap were done with the same settings the production car has.

people complain that the vette lacks "feel" in the suspension... well; this is a similar complaint from many reviewers regarding the 1+++Million dollar Mclaren F1.

you people can't have it both ways. if the car lacks feel, and cost $65,000; and has such high tolerances; who is to argue anything about it feeling like the unpredictable Mclaren F1?

Meh, i'd take a W8 anyway, and trounce em all :P

well - he was right, but we have lost so many of the original core group, and many of those that remain show their true colours daily.
people dont realize how many really arn't here anymore. there are those who left publically... and the quiet dissenters who sometimes even still logon... but there isn't anything they feel worth posting about. that group almost seems invisible these days; even when some of us try to stir things up. 0X

Now I see why Jabba, Dan, and TT were doing what they did do back in early January; where before I didn't understand it. I can't say it was the wrong move.

[RC45]

Meh, i'd take a W8 anyway, and trounce em all :P

I'll look youup in Michigan one day - be sure to arrange a secret meet with the white W8.. ;)

Good luck buddy - over and out :P

[LotusGT1]

What do you want? Convert every single person out there? Because of what? Because of who? Keep in mind that your ongoing efforts to drag the superiority of the Z06 compared to other sportscars into many topics didn't help either. There are a few guys here trying to push your buttons, just ingore those and talk with the ones that do appreciate the Z06 for what it is.

As long as this is an open forum you'll find uninformed idiots. Live with it. You're not going to find a place where this shit doesn't happen. On Corvetteforums there just the same pack of idiots, just with a different perspective. Same applies for every other forum. With size unfortunately comes stupidity.

BTW, it's not as dramatic as you depict the current situation IMO.

But anyway, ignore the "few juvenile ignorant pricks" and get over yourself.

[RC45]

What do you want? Convert every single person out there?



Convert who? nobody is trying convert anyone.


Because of what? Because of who? Keep in mind that your ongoing efforts to drag the superiority of the Z06 compared to other sportscars into many topics didn't help either.

What superiority? It is as capable - never said any different - if I drove a Citroen 2CV and people made false comments I would offer appropriate correct info.



There are a few guys here trying to push your buttons,

And JW as a community should have been above that. You guys still don't get it do you?

Hwy do you think Dan et el left? JW was supposed "the different" forum - the - but people are people and in the end the few ruin it for the many.



just ingore those and talk with the ones that do appreciate the Z06 for what it is.

It's not about the car - it's about the fact that everything "not euro" is picked apart and trashed simply because it's "not euro" - the same attitude and arrogance took Dans work as an example, for granted.


As long as this is an open forum you'll find uninformed idiots.

Long term members ought to move above that behaviour - afterall thats what was "supposed to make JW different"...


Live with it. You're not going to find a place where this shit doesn't happen. On Corvetteforums there just the same pack of idiots, just with a different perspective. Same applies for every other forum. With size unfortunately comes stupidity.

Which is why - again - wasn't JW "the different frum" - guess not.



BTW, it's not as dramatic as you depict the current situation IMO.

But anyway, ignore the "few juvenile ignorant pricks" and get over yourself.

Again - you guys really don't get why we had other long-timers leave.

Enjoy the stay.

[nthfinity]

600 hp... though doesn't say if its gonna be supercharged or NA

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/FREE/60501021/1024/TOC01ARCHIVE

It'll be NA. Americans know how to build high HP engines without forcefeeding them :wink:

ive already seen the S/C'd engine, hidden in another vehicle.

LIAR!!!! :lol:

http://www.nthimage.com/spy_shots/update_2/trailblazer_SS_LS9_1.jpg

it was in this vehicle

[TeflonTron]

oh no, not another crappy Vette!! :P

Exactly. All the car magz say the power of the Vette is awesome but just lacking a bit in the suspension department. I guess thats good old American enginuity for ya

Still 600hp from the factory is recockulous :twisted:

Heres another one for you Nth... I guess 7m42s around the Nurburgring is "just lacking a bit in the suspension department"... :roll:

How many runs around the 'ring did GM take to set that time? 1? 100? How much of the suspension was tweaked according to each run to get a better time on the next lap?

Nth - here another one for you to take up.

How many runs - who the fuck cares - do you ask "How many runs does it take Porsche to perfect the 911 or CGT setup?"

I didn't think so.

The suspension was STOCK - all adjustments were within specs of the STOCK car. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the Sachs shocks used on the run are on the STOCK car.. the Goodyear Tyres used on the run are the STOCK tyres on the car... oh and the heigh adjustment? The car has a height adjustable suspension STOCK

Exactly how many times does this need to be repeated?

Exactly how many times do you have to see information posted by long time senior members who have NEVER posted bullshit, and in fact go out of their way to ONLY post facts and truth and in fact were invited to participate from an early time becaus eof the FACTS and HONESTY, before you take the informaiton on face value?

I will answer for you - You and others will NEVER accept this informaiotn because it doesn't fit in with your stupid Jeremy Clarkson view of al things American.

Why don't you call st-anger out for posting bullshit abou tPorsches?

Well?

Why do you simply accept what he says and posts for the facts they are?

I will tell you why - because he is posting about goddamned european car - thats' why.

And that is why I am leaving JW Because of this shit that continues year in and year out.

Have at it nth... good luck, you will need it.


Will you stop getting your panties in a bunch? I did not saying anything negative about the Z06. All I asked was how many laps GM ran the car at the 'ring before they got the final time, and how much tweaking to the suspension they did in order to achieve that. That was all. Are you so insecure that you are unable to answer a very, very simple question from someone such as myself who is simply asking a question so that he can receive an answer in order to better knowledge himself?

[nthfinity]

are these the same questions you had asked about P cars at the ring? or the BMW's, or mercs, or audi's, or whatever? is it so hard to believe that an American blue collar car can lap faster then the hard-edged exotics from europe?

cirtain information isn't made public... whether from GM, BMW, Ferrari etc. do you know the spring rates, and camber angles of your favorite cars?

its an odd question begging to get such a responce.

the facts remain the same.... and soon, we'll have HvS do the full supertest on the car at NS... will it, or wont it be faster then the 997 GT3? how fast is the 997 GT3? :wink:

if i were to "speculate" based on reliable information... the C6 Z will get a 7:46-48 with HvS driving.

keep in mind, the new Z is also running on crappy tire compounds that are run-flats

[TeflonTron]

No, it's not an odd question begging anything. This is a thread about the Blue Devil, is it not? I asked a very simple question about the current Z06's suspension and how many runs GM did at the 'ring and how they tweaked the settings to get a better time and a better car. No more or less than that. I couldn't care less about how others here and elsewhere bash the 'vette: I just wanted a simple answer to a simple question. I also couldn't give two figs about the Z06 vs 997 "battle" that people try and run with. The Z06 is a very, very fast car, be it in a straightline or on a track. Some people think that it looks like crap and others love it: the same holds true for any other car. There's really no need to defend either RC45 or the Z06 as I wasn't attacking either of them.

Not everyone who posts a question about the Z06 or America/American cars has an axe to grind.

[nthfinity]

Not everyone who posts a question about the Z06 or America/American cars has an axe to grind.

fair enough.

however, again, it is an odd question to ask people who weren't involved in engineering this car.

[TeflonTron]

Is it? RC seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject so I asked him whether he knew, that's all.

[dannyroz]

Holy crap! What just happened in this thread?

Anyhow, the reason I said about the Vette suspension being crappy is because from my numerous articles that I have read, most if not all say that the Vette is a great fast car but its not a drivers car. There is no feel with the road.

So in essence I should have made myself a little more clearer.

And since we went off topic a long time ago...I dont think all American cars suck but you have to admit that when it comes to handling we are just getting into the game. Its not our faults of course, we have long straights and thats what people have adapted to. Europe is the other way around with lots of trail roads and such. My 2 cents

[bmagni]

more news.

a supposedly GM dealer posted this on Digital Corvettes:

A special limited edition is being planned for next spring - no hard details until 1st of the year or so….”

[bmagni]

Maybe this is why the folks at General Motors can slyly smile and plausibly deny a super-powered Corvette Blue Devil is in the works. We hear Blue Devil (allegedly chosen to get the attention of GM CEO and Duke grad Rick Wagoner) is no longer the working name of the car but has been replaced by the more Corvette-centric Sting Ray moniker. Production of the $100,000 Blue, er, Sting Ray, with a supercharged 7.0-liter 600-hp V8 under its carbon fiber hood, could come as early as 2007.

[RC45]

The Corvette range is slowly turning into the same as the 911's.

I'd like to know what kind of chassis it'll have. Will it be the same one as in the regular C6 or the aluminium one that they made for the Z06?

As a true Corvette enthusiast I can tell you for $100,000+ it better weight 2500lb, be made of carbon fibre and lap the Nurburgring in 7:15s - because to justify the cost going from $70,000 to $100,000 and only bump power by 95bhp (505 to 600) is a big let down.

Besidse which who is going to buy the car unless it is the C6 Z06 GT-3 car with lights and A/C... ??

[nthfinity]

The Corvette range is slowly turning into the same as the 911's.

I'd like to know what kind of chassis it'll have. Will it be the same one as in the regular C6 or the aluminium one that they made for the Z06?

As a true Corvette enthusiast I can tell you for $100,000+ it better weight 2500lb, be made of carbon fibre and lap the Nurburgring in 7:15s - because to justify the cost going from $70,000 to $100,000 and only bump power by 95bhp (505 to 600) is a big let down.

Besidse which who is going to buy the car unless it is the C6 Z06 GT-3 car with lights and A/C... ??

I know that king of the ring is the Vettes' goal.... but without dave hill... i really wonder how good this car is going to be.

[TeflonTron]

RC: do you think that the additional cost of $30,000 is enough to disuade most of the potential buyers? Do you think that they will stick with the Z06 and just tune that instead? Personally, I can't see too many people wanting one, unless it's a collector's car, as those that can lay down $100k for a car tend, no offense meant, to think about other things than just outright speed.

[bmwdakias]

I believe that the Z06's $65,000 price tag is spoiling us and therefore the expectations from a $100,000 Vette are going to be at ENZO levels. If they had only charged us 85grand in the beginning for a Z06 the transition to the 100,000 price tag would have been easier to accept even with only a 95hp increase :P

[RC45]

RC: do you think that the additional cost of $30,000 is enough to disuade most of the potential buyers?

The $100,00 price tag will immidiatly eliminate 95% of all the Z06 buyers on day one.

The car has such sales success because ordinary working folks with a family and a kid and a morgage and bills can afford it - it gives EVERYONE a chance to have super car performance in the driveway.

This is a bit of a stretch at $70,000 and sales have been a little slower than C5 Z06 sales - as the $20,000 price diff. didn't come with a $20,000 salary or savings account increase for the majority of the buying pool.


Do you think that they will stick with the Z06 and just tune that instead?

Many of us will wait for the C6 Z06 price to creep down and buy a used one - I paid $38,000 for my 1 year old C5 Z06 - it is now worth about $27,000 on the open market.

Thats $27,000 for 0-60 in 4s, 12s 1/4 mile, 175mph top end, 1+ G skid pad, 7m56s Nurburgring time - stock. And it has a roof, A/C, CD player, and leather seats.. :P

There is no other performance bargain like than anywhere on the planet...

Withint 3 years the C6 Z06 will be a $35,000 car... what a bargain - and it will be still capable of 7m42s Nurburgring times.

For $100,000 the new one better be hand made by naked virgins to be cost justified - by "ordinary" people.


Personally, I can't see too many people wanting one, unless it's a collector's car, as those that can lay down $100k for a car tend, no offense meant, to think about other things than just outright speed.
No offence taken - but I think youplace too much on the "other things" - people with $100K+ to throw around often want snob appeal - that is the only "other" thing you get. The lads at the country club will swoon over your status symbol - in otherwords its a "big dick" thing. ;)

A $100,000 Corvette will suffer the same poor sales the Ford GT has - the car is great, but the rich snobs wont buy them, and there are only so many rich "down to earth" car guys.

These people will and do buy $50,000 C5 Z06's and now $70,000 C6 Z06's and then spend another $100,000 making them faster - because they can and they enjoy it. Jay Leno is such a guy.

But these people are few and far between - Ferrari Lambo and Porsche among others don't cater to these people - they cater to the snobs who want people to know that they have big bank accounts.

:)

[5vz-fe]

Why go supercharger to get 600hp :?: Simple tweaks on the LS7 will gave u that already?

http://www.lingenfelter.com/pacc6_ZO6camintake.htm
(I am sure u can find much cheaper cams, but I am just too lazy to search) :wink:

GM better give much more than hp for 30k more

[coloradosilver]

Why go supercharger to get 600hp :?: Simple tweaks on the LS7 will gave u that already?

http://www.lingenfelter.com/pacc6_ZO6camintake.htm
(I am sure u can find much cheaper cams, but I am just too lazy to search) :wink:

GM better give much more than hp for 30k more

Perople are already WAY over the 600 hp mark with just headers and cam packages. These kits go for just a few grand.

For someone to pay an extra $30,000 for the same thing would be a real "Look what I have" thing. I think that mey be what GM is hoping for.

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

Although I'm not sure how much buying a $100,000+ Chevrolet says about ones intelligence. Or lack thereof. :wink:

[666fast]

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

For him and the hardcore Vette collector. I can see many people lining up for them, especially if they are built in very small numbers.

[coloradosilver]

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

For him and the hardcore Vette collector. I can see many people lining up for them, especially if they are built in very small numbers.

Exactly, it will still be for "Look what I have" purposes.

[blah]

The Z06 is the ultimate package
500 HP
742 lap time
and when ever the car feels like it, it can be a convertible. :lol: :lol:

[RC45]

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

Oh - the same people Ferrari aim for ;) :P

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

For him and the hardcore Vette collector. I can see many people lining up for them, especially if they are built in very small numbers.

Uhm - there wont be 5,000 people lining up for them - Dodge cannot even sell every Viper they make each year and they only make 2,000 or so - and they discount them at the end of the year.

[blah]

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

Oh - the same people Ferrari aim for ;) :P

This car won't really be aimes at the norman entheisiast. It will be for the rich guy who has no clue how to drive it and will only buy it for status.

For him and the hardcore Vette collector. I can see many people lining up for them, especially if they are built in very small numbers.

Uhm - there wont be 5,000 people lining up for them - Dodge cannot even sell every Viper they make each year and they only make 2,000 or so - and they discount them at the end of the year.

Ferrari owners are the worst out there. They just tool around with their Paddle shifts below 4,000 RPMs, i hate them so much. :o

[Shinigami]

30k is quite a hike up in price, I suppose they will do little tweaks everywhere to justify the price. I'd like to see a bit more leather and perhaps replace plastic with aluminium inside, to give it a bit more chique.

Too bad the car will take a big hike in price when it comes to Europe.

Whilst $70k is roughly 90,000chf over here, the car itself sells for another 20k over that price. So a price tag of $100k "should" be 125,000chf, but will end up closer to 150,000chf for sure.

At that price tag, the traditional European customer will eye up European exotics just because they're the "well known show off rides" this side of the ocean.

Wish the dealers didn't mark them up so much over here...

[bmagni]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4584/1xn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[coloradosilver]

Great article ^^^^^

The only really good thing about this car is that it may help bring down the price of a nice used Z06. Thats the market that I'm realy watching as I plan on hving one in the next few years.

[nthfinity]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4584/1xn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

old, and repost.....

but.... the "blue devil" is out and about in various mules under the guise of a C6 Z06.. not many people outside the project even knows what the styling cues are...

[nthfinity]

nice photoshop.... im guessing the naca ducting is to cool the rear dif? I would like a more aggressive front facia... but hey, if it laps a sub 7:30... could anybody complain?

word is it has the C6 R style Coil over supsension...

[nickthaskater]

Everything I've seen so far points towards a more hardcore car. Lighter weight (I think the goal is 2,800 or less), more race-bred suspension, more powerful engine of course, and things like that. I remember reading a while back that the Corvette team were toying with carbon-ceramic brakes as well, but decided against using them on the Z06 until they could offer them at an affordable price, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up on the Sting Ray as well.

I really don't think this car will disappoint, the rest of the C6 line-up has already succeeded with flying colours.

And yea, that's a nice photochop up there, I'd kill for a street Vette that looked like that :wink:

[bmagni]

nice photoshop

isn't it just the C6-R without the wing ??

[nickthaskater]

nice photoshop

isn't it just the C6-R without the wing ??
And the decals have been removed as well. It's just neat the see the car in a 'streetable' trim I suppose.

[novass]

I hope they sell a lot of these so the price of the new Z06 goes down enough to where I can afford one LOL

[rave426]

Ha, I thought I was the only one waiting for the Z06 to go down in price. The cool thing about Z06 Vettes (especially the new one) after they have been hit hard by depreciation the first 2 years, they dont lose value near as much as other sport cars do. At least thats how it is in the US, because there are alot of people here who look at the Corvette as a dream car, plus it is a higly demanded icon. And I am sure that the C6 Z06 will be in demand for a long time.

I waiting on my copy, if not I am going to possibly go for the new challenger, camaro, or supra. I want the new GT-R, but its going to take me a few years to be able to afford a $70,000+ car.

[TT]

This is the last bit of info and pic going 'round the net

Vu sur un autre forum

"If the thought of the new 500-hp Ford Shelby GT500 Mustang hedging in on the 505-hp Corvette Z06's territory raises your blood pressure, don't despair: Corvette chief engineer Tom Wallace has a 650-hp trick up his sleeve. A new super Corvette will build on the Z06's 7.0-liter LS7 V-8 that was developed in sync with the Corvette C6.R Le Mans racer. For this limited-production Vette, which might be called the Z07, Chevy will increase the LS7's displacement and bolt on a supercharger to bump output by 145 hp. The Z07, due in 2008, will be further differentiated from the Z06 by the use of more carbon-fiber body panels and a huge hood vent aimed at killing front-end lift. In true Corvette style, Chevy will undercut competitors by pricing the Z07 at about $100,000. This Corvette has been known within GM as the Blue Devil, after the mascot of GM CEO Rick Wagoner's alma mater, Duke, and also as the Sting Ray, but we think they'll go with Z07, or maybe Z06.R."


http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_x+2009_chevrolet_corvette_z07+front.jpg

[Shinigami]

Having seen the Z06 engine bay, I wonder how they could fit that Ford GT style recess? There's just not enough space for a crease that big?

[nickthaskater]

Having seen the Z06 engine bay, I wonder how they could fit that Ford GT style recess? There's just not enough space for a crease that big?
They could change the radiator placement and such, though that seems like a lot of work and I doubt they would do it, especially if they want to keep costs down. I see something more along the lines of the Z06.R GT3 racecar being translated to the street, rather than the C6.R.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3807/z06rgt32cz5.th.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z06rgt32cz5.jpg) http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1342/z06rgt31tx0.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z06rgt31tx0.jpg) http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5086/z06rgt34dq4.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=z06rgt34dq4.jpg)

Street version probably being somewhere in between the Z06 and the Z06.R in terms of stripped interior, and hopefully carrying over the R's carbon body panels (all of which accounts for a dry weight of just 2,667 lbs).

[dutchmasterflex]

That air dam is photoshopped.

$100,000 for a car of this performance just sounds deadly.

Can't wait until I have that $100,000.

[5vz-fe]

Still don't get the purpose of that supercharger..... :|

[nickthaskater]

Still don't get the purpose of that supercharger..... :|
Yea I wish (and still hope that they don't) they weren't going to use one. The LS7 is capable of insane power with very little work already... I've seen one hit 492 rwhp / 473.3 rwtq with nothing but a set of long tubes, removal of the stock air filter, and replacing stock fluids with REDLINE fluids.

Or if you're more adventurous haha, a naturally aspirated 623 rwhp, daily driven no less...
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53674

[gucom]

i hate to admit it but this is gonna be an awesome car... i hope they wont go too stripped out on the interior, because there are already bare-stripped monstrously powerful cars that will still be faster (ultima GTR)

[nickthaskater]

i hate to admit it but this is gonna be an awesome car... i hope they wont go too stripped out on the interior, because there are already bare-stripped monstrously powerful cars that will still be faster (ultima GTR)
They'll still be entirely different driving experiences (the Ultima is MR), and of course different apperances.

The CLK DTM AMG has a stripped interior, and there are plenty of things faster than it, but I'm still glad they made such a car. Heck, the Exige is barebones as it gets, and there are a ton of things faster. Just because it won't be the fastest, doesn't mean they shouldn't make it as fast as they can. Less weight also helps the handling and braking as well. An Exige-esque interior would be fine by me. If one wants the regular comforts, just get a regular Z.

[gucom]

u have a point, but i definitely wouldn't want a stripped-out corvette, whereas i'd love an exige.

[nickthaskater]

What's the difference? This would be pretty much the hardcore of hardcore Corvettes, why shouldn't the interior reflect that? Like I said, if you want the creature comforts, get a regular Z or even just a regular C6.

[gucom]

because there're faster more hardcore cars, kitcars mostly, the only reason i'd want a fast corvette is because it would be the best combination of fast and cheap thats still livable with. If it gets just as hardcore as those kitcars the point of buying it is lost for me.
The lotus is a different story alltogether, it has a history, appearance, and character totally different to the hardcore monsters we're talking about here.

[nickthaskater]

The Corvette has a history and character as well, and every now and then there's been a bad ass monster, this is just the latest iteration of that. And who's to say how hardcore this Corvette will be anyways? If they do carry over the carbon panels of the GT3 Z06.R, and uprate the suspension etc., it's going to be extremely fast, very racy, and in my eyes, I'd love an interior that reflected that (especially since it would actually serve a purpose as well).

And again, if you want a Corvette that you're able to live with day to day, there's still the Z06 and C6. As I showed above, it's not that difficult to get 600rwhp out of the Z06, and you'd still have all your creature comforts as well, so why not diversify a bit and give the option of a stripped racey version on top of that?

[RC45]

Wow - a 2700 view 4 page topic about a Corvette....

My, how the mighty have fallen... the mighty snobby eurocrats that used to hate on anything Corvette that is... :P

[Shinigami]

Wow - a 2700 view 4 page topic about a Corvette....

My, how the mighty have fallen... the mighty snobby eurocrats that used to hate on anything Corvette that is... :P
It doesn't really seem to matter if the people talk good or bad about the vette here, you still like to pipe in with a few subtle "snobby eurocrat" insults. You never change, do you ;)

[RC45]

It doesn't really seem to matter if the people talk good or bad about the vette here, you still like to pipe in with a few subtle "snobby eurocrat" insults. You never change, do you ;)

Since when is a truth an insult?

[Shinigami]

It's a subtle insult, just like using the word "liberal" has turned into the new "nigger". And you know this ;)

[dutchmasterflex]

When the fuck did liberals become the new niggers?

[nickthaskater]

When the fuck did a Corvette have anything to do with a discussion about liberals and niggers?

[RC45]

It's a subtle insult, just like using the word "liberal" has turned into the new "nigger". And you know this ;)

No - your post is an insult to every single black family that was ripped from their ancestral roots in Africa and transported by Dutch, British, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish slave traders to the then new world.

I am appalled that a so-called civilized and educated person would behave this way.

Who's the bigoted racist now?

When the fuck did a Corvette have anything to do with a discussion about liberals and niggers?

eurocrats will stop at nothing to spread hate and anger... :)

[bmagni]

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2168/01sj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8384/02at6.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02at6.jpg) http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3217/03wf2.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03wf2.jpg)

This might look like an ‘ordinary’ Z06 with a funky hood scoop, but the crack shooters from Brenda Priddy’s crew, with with their long lenses and tuned ears, tell us this Corvette is anything but ordinary.
Shooter Chris Doane claims that the sound coming from the engine could only be a supercharged 6.2-liter V-8, and our sources speculate that this Corvette is pushing nearly 650-horsepower! And when the Corvette SS goes to production– expect the price tag to be in the $100,000 range.
The supercharged V-8 will utilize an integrated intake manifold intercooler, and it’s expected to run a 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds. The super-hot SS will weigh even less than the Z06, utilizing more carbon fiber in the body, as well as polycarbonate material.
The 6.2-liter V-8 will be built at GM’s Performance Center in Wixom, Michigan, with annual production numbers expected to be in the 1500-2000 range. Production on this special Corvette, also known for some time as the Blue Devil, will start in the first quarter of 2008 (as a 2009 model).

As for its exact name – well, we’re hearing everything from Corvette SS, to Z07, to resurrecting the Stingray name. Don’t count out the Mako Shark name, either.

[TopGearNL]

650 HP :shock:

This thing is serious !

[dutchmasterflex]

Even LESS weight AND 150 more HP :twisted:

[RC45]

Well - the "less weight" is still to be seen - dropping the weight below what the cars currently are, is why the CCX, Enzo, MaccF1, CGT etc cost as much as they do.

The problem with an "Enzo spec" car from GM, with GM's track record of really bad engineering to cut sorners in cost is a deadly mixture.

The Corvette has always been an awesomely well engineered and designed car - that is then built to the specs the acocuntants approve - which is where all the build quality and other issues come from.

GM needs to take the bull by the horns and just make a $150 tpo $200,000 car so they don't have to cut corners in all the wrong places.

Hopefully they can pull itoff - but I seriously doubt it.

As it is, the C6 Z06 has cost cutting in the roof... and they are breaking away at an alarming rate.

;)

Cheap is good - up to a certain level, then after than cheap becomes dangerous - and the production Corvette Z06 is right on that borderline right now.

Trying to get to 3s 0-60 and 220mph top end, 160-0 braking and maintaining structural integrity with less weight cannot be done with cost cutting in mind :)

[dutchmasterflex]

I thought the C6 Z06 roof problem was just a random occurance..

Really sucks to hear that its a major problem in the design of the car.

I guess you shouldnt expect to have a $65k SUPERcar with out a catch to the deal..

[gobs3z]

I don't understand why they don't make this a track oriented car, like the GT3. It would help with weight loss and cost saving. Bad idea if they try to make it into a daily driver.

[davide]

I think we can have a new king on the 'Ring if this continues! :shock:

[rave426]

Hey, I got a chance to post!!!

RC-

GM knows it cant convince the product marketing department to allow them to sale a 150K-200K Vette.

First of all, most people that CAN afford that much money wont buy it because no matter what you say, it is still a Vette...and the untrained eye wont differentiate it from the stock $44k Vette. Most people buy Ferrari for the looks and the name......and I dont think these people are going to opt for a Vette instead. No matter how fast and how good the Vette is, it will never have the name that Ferrari has. Ford got by with the Ford GT because it looks like nothing else on the road and because it has the "rare" factor. GM doing that would be like Ford selling a 650hp $80K Mustang <----- just doesnt make sense.

We all know there are a select few people that have the sence to buy cars for "performace for the money" ratio. These people and rich Vette collectors will be the only ones buy it, and GM isnt in the economic setting to suffice a producing this car, just cause they can (aka Veyron) because they need MONEY!

Honestly cost cutting is a dangerous art, but GM knows its marketable limits. Matter of fact, i bet u would be shocked to see how many people on this forum (who are educated car enthusiast) would pick a Ferrari F430 over the much fast 650hp Vette.

Ok back to school...

[JoeHahn]

I know this might cause people to jump in my face, but I hope they improve the interior quality a bit as well. The current one just seems a bit too shabby for a 100k $ car. Some carbon fibre bits would look nice.

Sound like it's gonna be one hell of a performer tho. If the Z06 ran the Nordschleife in Zonda terrotory, then I cant imagine what this might do.

Rip the interior out and drop in 2 bucket seats a fire extinguisher and you have 2 problems solved. Save ~100kg and also get rid of people whining about crappy interior. In the end, who is going to complain about a racing-style interior (other than homo car mags)

[nthfinity]

Honestly cost cutting is a dangerous art, but GM knows its marketable limits. Matter of fact, i bet u would be shocked to see how many people on this forum (who are educated car enthusiast) would pick a Ferrari F430 over the much fast 650hp Vette.

Ok back to school...


actually, we arn't shocked... so much just the opposite; it is expected... just waiting for somebody to say "but it will only go fast in a straight line" garbage.

as for the vette... yeah, i know quite a few people who've seen it... but my own GM sources have long since dried up

there are several things to keep in mind with the SS/sting-ray/blue devil

Vette engineers are vying for the no.1 production car spot on NS lap time
GM may be able to sell them
They will drop 30k in 1 year, and 50 in 3 years

the real question is; what will separate this car form the Z06 in terms of chassis, and functional styling?

Coil over suspension in part brought over from the racing tech... wider body, again racing tech, substantial downforce produced w/out use of the underbody (i may be wrong here)
good engine note (it may not be.... but for 100k-whatever, it better sound like an exotic V8 (or at least lopey)
different tire compound ~no runcraps
different wheel
steel brakes... carbon may be an option, but not standard
yeh, it will be a fun car.

[acmarttin]

but it will only go fast in a straight line! :lol:

If they drop 50k in 3 years - I'll see ya in 2010.

[RC45]

but it will only go fast in a straight line! :lol:

If you have to try insult the car - at least make it a plausible educated insult.

Nurburgring in 7m4xs says its even faster around a corner than any F-Car.... :)

[gangajas]

but it will only go fast in a straight line! :lol:

If you have to try insult the car - at least make it a plausible educated insult.

Nurburgring in 7m4xs says its even faster around a corner than any F-Car.... :)

I think he is just joking (read the previuos post by nthfinity). Why haven't you quoted his whole post?

[gobs3z]

I don't understand why they don't make this a track oriented car, like the GT3. It would help with weight loss and cost saving. Bad idea if they try to make it into a daily driver.

Dude - this car is as hardcore as the GT3 or the 360CS or the M3 CSL... just that it has twice the power! :wink: :P

I should've said GT3 RS, but i'm trying to get at is the RS has a total lack of consideration towards road comfortability whereas the Z06 is supposed to be driven daily and go to the track on the weekends. They should give it a role cage, racing seats, and suspension that will spend a majority of its time on the track. Ceramic brakes aren't neccessary but would be nice. I honestly think the 650hp engine they're producing isn't much of an achievement, it would have been more impressive without the blower. The LS7 will put those numbers to the road with a cam and heads, and have a cam oriented more towards HP than torque since they're going to make it a lightweight car and with 7.0L it should already have monumental torque for the weight.

[davide]

Some more pictues, maybe you all seen them, be these were high-res so I just figured that they'' be enjoyed... :)

http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20001.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20004.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20005.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20003.jpg

[dutchmasterflex]

One nice little detail I didnt notice in those pic before is,

it doesnt say 505hp under th Z06 emblem anymore ;)

[bmagni]

Some more pictues, maybe you all seen them, be these were high-res so I just figured that they'' be enjoyed... :)

http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20001.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20004.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20005.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20003.jpg

high res is alwasy welcome !!

[RC45]

Instead of messing with the engine, they need to fix the badly engineered parts and the dealer network.

[bmagni]

Instead of messing with the engine, they need to fix the badly engineered parts and the dealer network.

that would rise the cost, hence the price, and then the new vette wouldn't be a fast and cheap car. it would be a fast but expensive cheap car :P

[StanAE86]

Geez, I wish I stayed current with this topic. I think the topic should be renamed RC vs. Europe. hahaha.

I'm just a farmboy and don't know much about cars. But what I do know is that I can appreciate anything that has performance. Bang for the buck, you just can't F with the recent Z06s and the new replacement that's in the pipeline. All the Euroheads can hate for what they want, but they just can't swallow that an American car is stepping up to the plate and making the exotics look bad.

I've been in the Z06, but haven't had the opportunity to drive it. It wouldn't matter because I don't have the skill to squeeze out the times it can. Same with a P car, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, blah blah blah. I can say that the interior definately doesn't feel up to par with the Europeans. But, it's stuff like that, that makes the Z06 such a bargain, when it comes to performance. You can't have it all, unless you're ready to pay prices 99.9% of us can't afford.

If I had the money, I'd get a Ferrari. It's not that I can't afford to buy one (a used one), I can't afford to own it...maintenance, etc. The Corvette has never done it for me like a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo does. I don't think it ever will. I could do a Viper and seriously considered a used GTS since they're coming down in price.

umm....I don't know where this is going. Shit. I hate it when I start waxing poetic about nothing.

RC, you're right. Too many spout off about crap they don't know about and perpetuate the BS with the Clarkson attitude. They're not the true enthusiasts. A true enthusiast can appreciate any build of any marque, and can punctuate it with a reason for why they just don't like it, besides using wrong misinformation. I think you can't deny the performance in the Corvette. But, it doesn't get my blood going like a P car, Ferrari or Lambo. In the end, I have some ricer bling in me. My good friend though, he's a hardcore enthusiast to the end. He'd drive a Yugo if it was fast enough. He's all go and no show. Me, I need a little show. :wink:

[novass]

Geez, I wish I stayed current with this topic. I think the topic should be renamed RC vs. Europe. hahaha.

I'm just a farmboy and don't know much about cars. But what I do know is that I can appreciate anything that has performance. Bang for the buck, you just can't F with the recent Z06s and the new replacement that's in the pipeline. All the Euroheads can hate for what they want, but they just can't swallow that an American car is stepping up to the plate and making the exotics look bad.

I've been in the Z06, but haven't had the opportunity to drive it. It wouldn't matter because I don't have the skill to squeeze out the times it can. Same with a P car, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, blah blah blah. I can say that the interior definately doesn't feel up to par with the Europeans. But, it's stuff like that, that makes the Z06 such a bargain, when it comes to performance. You can't have it all, unless you're ready to pay prices 99.9% of us can't afford.

If I had the money, I'd get a Ferrari. It's not that I can't afford to buy one (a used one), I can't afford to own it...maintenance, etc. The Corvette has never done it for me like a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo does. I don't think it ever will. I could do a Viper and seriously considered a used GTS since they're coming down in price.

umm....I don't know where this is going. Shit. I hate it when I start waxing poetic about nothing.

RC, you're right. Too many spout off about crap they don't know about and perpetuate the BS with the Clarkson attitude. They're not the true enthusiasts. A true enthusiast can appreciate any build of any marque, and can punctuate it with a reason for why they just don't like it, besides using wrong misinformation. I think you can't deny the performance in the Corvette. But, it doesn't get my blood going like a P car, Ferrari or Lambo. In the end, I have some ricer bling in me. My good friend though, he's a hardcore enthusiast to the end. He'd drive a Yugo if it was fast enough. He's all go and no show. Me, I need a little show. :wink:

Well said. The Vettes of late are definitely pulling out some impressive numbers and I think a lot of people are having a hard time realizing that. I dont get why people hate the car for virtually no reason other than the fact that its American. Sure the Vette doesnt have a Mercedes like interior, but when youre going that fast, does it really matter?

I grew up around American cars at dragstrips, yet I am just as happy at an import or supercar show or a road course; if its fast, ill watch/drive/like. I couldnt care less who makes the car as long as I like it for whatever reason. It would great if we all could afford Enzos or similar cars, but its just not gonna happen.

[blue8]

Well, I think it's great that American cars are finally, to an extent, catching up with the Europeans in terms of performance. But one thing that bothers me is American cars, in their quest to trump the exotics, only consider upping the performance level of their cars. Although performance is very important, it's the overall package that counts. Interior does matter, as well as the lookk of the car, steering and all that.

[rave426]

Whoa now haas...

You are going to say that American cars are "finnaly, to an extent" catching up with Europeans in terms of performance.

I guess you dont remember the Vette ZR1 or the early years of the Viper. Even back then some of those Euro exotics were getting their ass handed to them.

But yes, in terms of the overall package, the Euro cars still own the crown. But im not talking about anything performance and drive wise. Only interior, fit and finish, and maybe ride comfort.

[RC45]

Well, I think it's great that American cars are finally, to an extent, catching up with the Europeans in terms of performance. But one thing that bothers me is American cars, in their quest to trump the exotics, only consider upping the performance level of their cars. Although performance is very important, it's the overall package that counts. Interior does matter, as well as the lookk of the car, steering and all that.

Finally catching up? Uhm no - it's you that's finally catching up.

Let's have a little history lesson here:

The 2001 C5 Z06 when released in 2000, was able to run and gun with the other hi-po cars of the day.

The C5 Z06 and 996 GT3 and Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale are all performance equals on and off the track... price is obviously way different... however, the C5 Z06 could not only run and gun with those 2 "small race cars" but also their bigger brothers, the Porker 911TT and the F575.

These are undisputed facts.. just because you don't know this doesn't mean it wasn't true.

Now cast your mind back to 1995.. and the ZR1.. same story when placed in a head to head comparison with the then top dog "small Ferrari F355 and Porsche 911" as well as the big-dog F550 and Porsche TT.

Go back a little further, to 1990 when the first gen ZR1 was released... and youwill see the same story. In fact the then ZR1 could blow the doors off the 348 and the Testarossa series.

Now fast forward to today and you see the same is true.

The current "Top Gun" Vette can dance toe to toe with the best "small Porker and the best small F-car".

Case closed.

The point of this thread though, is can GM produce a "Uber Vette" than can take on the likes of the Enzo and CGT?

The answer is "Of course they can - and no doubt it will crush the CGT and Enzo in every catagory".

However, the design brief is to "Beat the Enzo and CGT for $100,000".

In my opinion they will not be able to it - who cares about the fit and finish and interior (if you did then I know for a fact you have never been in an F40) my concern is that in order to keep the price down but still have hyper-car chassis and brakes and weight they will need to cut corners in all the wrng place.

If they had a prjected price of about $175,000 they could do it.. witness the Ford GT to see it is possible - there is a car that is well made and engineered and can take on the CGT and Enzo.

:)

[novass]

who cares about the fit and finish and interior (if you did then I know for a fact you have never been in an F40)

Tell me about it. I looked around the interior for a minute before I got a ride in the car and saw glue busting out of the seams, but once we were underway, I completely forgot about all that and enjoyed the speed.

It will be interesting to see how well this car turns out. I agree, RC, that if they gave themselves a little more fudge room with the price they might have something, but as it is, they may end up cutting one too many corners.

I know its been brought up in this topic before, but could they really sell a 150K+ Vette? The Ford GT is different because its its own car. I dont think many would buy a 150K+ Mustang. Chevy should buy the rights to Ultima and start throwing money into that project and make it their own.

[blue8]

haha well yeah i'm probably the one just catching up :D as with novass, i'm not too optimistic in the idea of selling a $100,000+ corvette. the car has always been priced low that i guess some people will not be accustomed to this price tag. but i think chevy would not want to invest in a 600hp car that isn't a corvette, since it is their flagship product and it has to be the best and most powerful from their line-up.

[RC45]

I know its been brought up in this topic before, but could they really sell a 150K+ Vette? The Ford GT is different because its its own car. I dont think many would buy a 150K+ Mustang. Chevy should buy the rights to Ultima and start throwing money into that project and make it their own.

If they had the Coupe vert and Z06 al priced below $100Kas they currently are - then they produced a Corvette LM/GT - similar looking car, maybe in essence the C6R - have the car spare no expense so to speak, and only produce 250 of the suckers a year for 3 years and call it quits.

That will a resounding success and they will sell them all - even at $250,000 or $300,000 each.

The car could have a hand tweaked chassis, race track refugee magnesium allows, carbon brakes and full carbon body work, and hand stitched alcantara/leather interior, Sparco seats and all the trimmings that make the car what it needs to be.

Built in hydraulic jacks etc.

The people in the know and with the money will snap them up like there is no tomorow.

But to try "mass produce" such a car is a mistake - it can't be succesfulyl done in those perfroamnce levels for a cheap price.

Now some components could/should trickle down to the "regular" Z06 model... but the LM/GT uber version should always basically be a C6R (or equivalent) without sponsor decals.

You know - just like the Mosler.. only with the engine in the front :P

[novass]

^ Ya I think I get what youre saying, sort of like what Ferrari does with 360 Challenges. Have the normal, everyday car but also offer a race version without the race livery.

[nthfinity]

~BREAKING NEWS~

you heard it here first

LS9 has serious bearing failures in the bottom end; expect costs to rise, just to be slashed again, and potentially see this issue on the street when costomers can finally buy one...

[Shinigami]

I think the "interior" issue is a moot point. In all honesty, you can shell out a few thousand bucks and have the entire interior fitted with alcatnara leather in the space of a day or two. If you're ready to spend 80 or $100k on a 505-650hp car, then go the length and spend another few bucks on the interior.

What's it gonna add? 10kilos? Pittances I say.

Besides, take a look at any lambo from or ferrari from 10 years ago and you'll see that many of them have plastic as well. And not just that, but vinyl and often very poorly laid out leather. I've seen my fair share of exotics with the leather bubbling and cracking in the seams. Ok, so the car might be 10 or 20 years old, but even back then, shortcuts were made to bring the car out at a certain price point or time limit...

[TopGearNL]

/\/\ I have to agree on you with that one, if its 10 kilos it does sound much but not for a car with this performance!

Look at the SLR, thats got a heavy automatic gearbox and all the Merc toys in it, it still does 0-60 in 3.8 :shock:

[nthfinity]

/\/\ I have to agree on you with that one, if its 10 kilos it does sound much but not for a car with this performance!

Look at the SLR, thats got a heavy automatic gearbox and all the Merc toys in it, it still does 0-60 in 3.8 :shock:

and when does that "extra 10 kilos" philosphy end? very quickly, you end up with a heavy merced..... oh :P

while mercs' are quick, there are no illusians that they are anywhere near the track performance of a Vette ;)

[nthfinity]

http://www.autowereld.com/imagesDB/640/6109142655115_corvette2j.jpg
http://www.autowereld.com/imagesDB/640/6109142658124_corvette5j.jpg
http://www.autowereld.com/imagesDB/640/6109142656110_corvette3j.jpg


[quote=davide]Some more pictues, maybe you all seen them, be these were high-res so I just figured that they'' be enjoyed... :)

http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20001.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20004.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20005.jpg
http://www.automotorsport.se/bigpix/2006/Chevrolet%20Super-Corvette%20003.jpg

dani caught stanning with low res photos :P

[TopGearNL]

/\/\ Looks the same one as spotted by another JW member!

Certainly looks the business :D

[chest3r]

That thing will look seriously aggressive with that big air intake :twisted:

[dutchmasterflex]

looks funny with the camoflauge blown up like a bubble.. The only thing that matters with this car is the performance.. we all pretty much know what its gonna look like.

[blue8]

from Autoblog

REPORT: Blue Devil prototype faked by Winding Road

Posted Dec 1st 2006 10:14PM by Damon Lavrinc
Filed under: Spy Photos, Etc., Chevrolet
Last month we posted on a recent sighting of the infamous "Blue Devil" supercharged uber-vette that had been shot numerous times while undergoing testing.

We wrote at the time, "This latest shot comes courtesy of The Car Connection via a student near Milford, Mich. by the name of Yonni G. Mr. G. happened to have his Dad's camera in tow when this newest prototype blew by him at speed and judging by the quality of the shots, we hope he got a sizeable check from the folks at TCC."

Well, last night we got word that those stellar shots were part of an elaborate prank of sorts, put on by the folks over at Winding Road to see if the images would make their way onto the pages of their competition and other automotive resources. They succeeded, getting the faux-pics ran in Autoweek, Motor Trend and a variety of internet sites and blogs, including this one.

Follow the jump for more on the story of Winding Road's imitation super Vette...

All of the media outlets who published the photos feel a bit foolish right now, though some will likely take it more serious than others. We don't know if any publication paid for the photos, in which case there might be some question surrounding the liability of someone selling fake photos. We know for a fact, however, that Winding Road only took pictures of the vehicle for its own article and never distributed photos of the vehicle to other outlets. The photos published in various magazines and on the internet were taken by people out in public and submitted to those outlets without any involvement from Winding Road. On account of this, we doubt WR will find itself in any legal trouble over this, since it's not against the law to tape up a Corvette and drive it around.

The entire buildup is chronicled in the January issue of Winding Road, which is available at their website. In order to view the latest issue you have to subscribe, which is free, however, some have voiced their disgust and don't want to give WR any more publicity than it's already garnered. Keith from Corvetteblogger.com, for instance, writes on his blog, "You've just proved that you are not worthy of the link on my blog and I hope others will take anything that comes from Winding Road in the future with a grain of salt."

[5vz-fe]

The one thing that winding road got it wrong is that ppl do wanna see it, but ppl (at least majority of current Z owners) dont wanna buy it.

[nthfinity]

- 1 to David E Davis i suppose

[666fast]

Pretty stupid, but also kind of funny. :lol:

[RC45]

Keith from Corvetteblogger.com, for instance, writes on his blog, "You've just proved that you are not worthy of the link on my blog and I hope others will take anything that comes from Winding Road in the future with a grain of salt."

Nice ;)

[taygunho]

^^^^ it looks like april fool joke :lol: :lol:

[gangajas]

LOL, I think it's very funny

[RC45]

Hmmm... fake journalism at work is good?

[dutchmasterflex]

Well... its not exactly fake journalism on WR's side, but all of the other magazines have fallen for it.

I think it's a pretty funny prank for Winding Road to pull on the rest of their competition.

[TopGearNL]

Well... its not exactly fake journalism on WR's side, but all of the other magazines have fallen for it.

I think it's a pretty funny prank for Winding Road to pull on the rest of their competition.

LOL yeah

Making everyone believe they were doing something :)

[RC45]

Well... its not exactly fake journalism on WR's side, but all of the other magazines have fallen for it.

I think it's a pretty funny prank for Winding Road to pull on the rest of their competition.

LOL yeah

Making everyone believe they were doing something :)

Except, journalistic integrity is very important and from now on whenever people see a Winding Road Scoop, they will doubt them.

Quite frankly, WR had to do something, otherwise why else are people downloading it?

For goodness sakes, I tried to like them from day one, but their mag sucks so bad, I felt compelled to go create my own one (a 3 month job for each issue) rather than spend 2 minutes to download their crap.. ;) :P

[TopGearNL]

For goodness sakes, I tried to like them from day one, but their mag sucks so bad, I felt compelled to go create my own one (a 3 month job for each issue) rather than spend 2 minutes to download their crap..

LMAO RC!!

Well at least your mag is really good, seems to me you do everything they don't :P :wink:

[kach22i]

We don't know if any publication paid for the photos, in which case there might be some question surrounding the liability of someone selling fake photos.
I'm off the hook, still waiting for my first free issue of AutoWeek though. 8)

The pictures I took raised a lot of questions, I've re-read the threads and most people did have a "wait-N-see" attitude.

They got some free headlines with this one, kind of like Paris and Britney without panties - cheap.

[sentra_dude]

^ I understand this 'fake journalism' more like a investigation on how easy is to fool everybody with a scoop car spy pic :wink:

I agree, maybe people will be more cautious now when seeing spy shots!

:P

[bmagni]

The new 600-horsepower 2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 won't keep its king-of-the-hill position for long if General Motors Corp. Vice Chairman Bob Lutz has anything to do with it.

Asked on Thursday during a meeting with analysts whether Chevrolet plans to produce the Corvette Blue Devil, GM's next generation super sports car, to usurp the Viper's newly won pole position in the race for the title of most powerful U.S. sports car, Lutz scoffed.

"As you all know, it is not our policy to discuss future product programs. However ... ," he said to laughter from the audience, "it is very important for Corvette to be the most powerful, most capable, best handling sports car in the United States."

Lutz acknowledged that "a recent competitor" had surpassed the top-level Corvette's horsepower.

"But the Corvette vehicle line executive will not take that lying down," Lutz said.

Chevrolet has a Corvette in development that is known as the Blue Devil, Devil Ray, Stingray or SS depending on whom you talk to, said Bob Gritzinger, senior editor for news at AutoWeek magazine.

"We all know the new Corvette is out there. The car is in development and it's been speculated that it will have about 650 horsepower. ... It's supposed to be here in 2009."

[HeilSvenska]

It will be called the Corvette SRT-10 Mopar Version. :D

Naw. I think it won't be the SS, nor Stingray because those denominations have been used on lesser cars. The Blue Devil sounds awesome, but it might not make it. And the Devil Ray sounds weird. Then again, it might just take on a whole new name.

[blue8]

"We all know the new Corvette is out there. The car is in development and it's been speculated that it will have about 650 horsepower. ... It's supposed to be here in 2009."

but by that time, the competition would have moved on, 650HP will be nothing...

[rave426]

^^^^^

LMFAO........since when or when will 650hp be nothing.

The second 650hp is nothing i assume the world will be full of F1 and Rally drivers.

Cant wait for the day that I look back at the Macca F1 and say, "Only 627hp, what a weak engine" :mrgreen:

[Mers]

Wallace said GM is considering requiring that Blue Devil—and even Z06—buyers attend a driver school as part of the price of admission.

cool stuff :D :D

Will never happen.

It's a free system - you have the money - you buy it. GM needs trhe money, they will not turn anyone away.

You don't need any special license to buy a 190mph 0-60mph in 1.9s $10,000 super bike... why should they have this requirement for dog slow roawd car? ;)

I agree...

At the most they'll try and do something like BMW did with the CSL, and have you sign a contract that acknowledges the car may be potentally dangerous in some circumstance (such as under trained driver)

Gonna be cool

[HeilSvenska]

I dunno. I think it's a cool gimmick. Besides all 190mph 0-60mph in 1.9s $10,000 super bike owners should be probed for incompetencies anyways. :P

[bmagni]

now we can see whoi they're aiming at:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4876/03tk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

These latest spy shots of the Chevrolet Corvette SS, or Corvette Z07, or whatever, aren't the sharpest photos we've seen but they do point to one important development. Taken at a supplier test track in Europe, this Corvette SS prototype was caught testing alongside a Ferrari 599. As fun as it might be to think Chevrolet considers the 599 a competitor for the upcoming Corvette, the real connection is their suspension technology. Like the current Corvette, the Ferrari 599 uses a magnetically adjustable shock absorber system made by Delphi. Up to this point, the system has been offered on standard Corvettes only, but it appears as though Chevrolet's engineers might be reworking the system to help control this Corvette's massive horsepower.

[nthfinity]

now we can see whoi they're aiming at:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4876/03tk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

These latest spy shots of the Chevrolet Corvette SS, or Corvette Z07, or whatever, aren't the sharpest photos we've seen but they do point to one important development. Taken at a supplier test track in Europe, this Corvette SS prototype was caught testing alongside a Ferrari 599. As fun as it might be to think Chevrolet considers the 599 a competitor for the upcoming Corvette, the real connection is their suspension technology. Like the current Corvette, the Ferrari 599 uses a magnetically adjustable shock absorber system made by Delphi. Up to this point, the system has been offered on standard Corvettes only, but it appears as though Chevrolet's engineers might be reworking the system to help control this Corvette's massive horsepower.

GM aren't aiming at the 599, they are aiming at # 1 spot for a production street car on NS

[RC45]

And the "current Corvette" doesnt use Magnetic Ride like the 599... the 599 is using what has been an option on Corvette for years already - since early C5 days..

Why can the press never give credit where credit is due?

Are they all that biased and ill-informed?

[Minacious]

And the "current Corvette" doesnt use Magnetic Ride like the 599... the 599 is using what has been an option on Corvette for years already - since early C5 days..

Why can the press never give credit where credit is due?

Are they all that biased and ill-informed?

Yes. God forbid a Ferrari adopts something that the Corvette has been using for years now.

[number77]

And the "current Corvette" doesnt use Magnetic Ride like the 599... the 599 is using what has been an option on Corvette for years already - since early C5 days..

Why can the press never give credit where credit is due?

Are they all that biased and ill-informed?

Yes. God forbid a Ferrari adopts something that the Corvette has been using for years now.
So for now on, you will not link Ferrari and technology as directly as you would GM and technology.

People like Jeremy Clarkson rip on American cars for not having technology as it is. Stuff like this has to be pointed out.

As for the pic above...didn't top gear compare the z06 to the 599? The Blue Devil will easily out perform that car. Its actually aimed much higher than you think.

[number77]

And the "current Corvette" doesnt use Magnetic Ride like the 599... the 599 is using what has been an option on Corvette for years already - since early C5 days..

Why can the press never give credit where credit is due?

Are they all that biased and ill-informed?

Yes. God forbid a Ferrari adopts something that the Corvette has been using for years now.
So for now on, you will not link Ferrari and technology as directly as you would GM and technology.

People like Jeremy Clarkson rip on American cars for not having technology as it is. Stuff like this has to be pointed out.

As for the pic above...didn't top gear compare the z06 to the 599? The Blue Devil will easily out perform that car. Its actually aimed much higher than you think.

They compared it to a 575 and it was really more on paper, no actual tests.

This would probably out-perform a 599 on the track.
There is no question. It will probably end up being a bargain supercar.

[HeilSvenska]

It will probably end up being a bargain supercar.

That sentence somehow sounds awefully negative. Anyways, with the Z06 costing $70,000 and up, the new model will probably have a proper supercar pricing.

[5vz-fe]

I will take the Z06 (2nd hand) anyday and use the extra money for mods anyday. Just imagine what you can do with 50k of mods.......<drooling>

[J-San]

And the "current Corvette" doesnt use Magnetic Ride like the 599... the 599 is using what has been an option on Corvette for years already - since early C5 days..

Why can the press never give credit where credit is due?

Are they all that biased and ill-informed?

Yes. God forbid a Ferrari adopts something that the Corvette has been using for years now.
So for now on, you will not link Ferrari and technology as directly as you would GM and technology.

People like Jeremy Clarkson rip on American cars for not having technology as it is. Stuff like this has to be pointed out.

As for the pic above...didn't top gear compare the z06 to the 599? The Blue Devil will easily out perform that car. Its actually aimed much higher than you think.

They compared it to a 575 and it was really more on paper, no actual tests.

This would probably out-perform a 599 on the track.

That's kind of pointless to compare, the 599GTB is a GT car and not a full-blown hard-edge focused sports car like the Corvette. Probably, in many tracks, even the regular Z06 will outperform the 599GTB, but that's not the point.;)

[HeilSvenska]

That's kind of pointless to compare, the 599GTB is a GT car and not a full-blown hard-edge focused sports car like the Corvette. Probably, in many tracks, even the regular Z06 will outperform the 599GTB, but that's not the point.

599GTB's not a GT. It's a super-coupe just like Corvette. Ferrari has the 612 for the GT job. It might be more comfortable than the Corvette, but it's not a GT. (It really depends on how you define GT, but then again Corvette can be considered a GT as well.)

[nthfinity]

Word on the street is the C6 ZR1 photo embargo ends tonight.... some of the newest rumors are disturbing...

620 hp, and heavier then a C6 Z06.... we shall see.

[5vz-fe]

heavier than a Z06?

[RC45]

heavier than a Z06?

That's not that hard to do - extra weight for the blower and the water in the cooling system, bigger wheels all round (19" & 20" vs 18" & 19"), wider heavier tyres, bigger heavier brakes and more creature comforts to satisfy the "but my BMW has a foot massager in the glove box" crowd.. ;)

I think the ZR1 is going to be more SLR than CLK ;)

[5vz-fe]

^lol, that is totally not justifiable from any stand point. Any potential buyer will see that they will be better of will a NA modded Z06. Less weight, less heat, more direct response, better off throttle response, .........

[nthfinity]

http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0802_02z+2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1+side_view .jpg
http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0802_26z+2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1+front_vie w.jpg
http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0802_28z+2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1+rear_view .jpg
http://images.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0802_06z+2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1+rear_clos eup.jpg

Mark Gerisch Put those Damn Ugly side exit bits on....

So that, the rear duck tail, and the positively negative camber visible up front....


Exclusive First Look! 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1


By Frank Markus
Photography by Richard Prince

http://www.motorworld.net/images/100x56_nophoto.jpghttp://www.motortrend.com/images/viewlarger.gif
(http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0802_2009_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_first_look/photo_01.html)
Asked the question, "Why do a ZR1?" Corvette (http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/chevrolet/corvette/index.html) Vehicle Line executive Tom Wallace shoots back, "Because we can. We have the technology inside General Motors to do a car that can go up against any supercar from around the world," he continues, punctuating the thought with this threat: "I can't wait to take on any Porsche (http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/01/porsche/index.html) with this car, and we're going to be right in there with the Ferrari (http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/01/ferrari/index.html) [599s] and Lamborghini (http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/01/lamborghini/index.html) [Murcilagos]." Whoa, ease off the Red Bull, Tom. This is a just a souped-up C6 Corvette, right? Or did you slip a mid-engine V-12 in without the blogosphere noticing?

An hour with chief engineer (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0802_2009_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_first_look#) Tadge Juechter reveals that this is indeed a Z06 upgraded with the best tech in GM's arsenal. A ZR1 was never part of the original C6 plan, but, at an early program review, the Z06's proposed aluminum frame, carbon-fiber parts, and LS7 engine so impressed CEO Rick Wagoner that he reportedly wondered aloud, "Geez, if that's what you can do with $60,000, I wonder what a $100,000 Corvette would look like?" With no more formal authorization than that, Juechter's posse launched a skunkworks effort dubbed "Blue Devil"-a nod to the boss's Duke alma mater.They started with turbochargers for efficiency's sake, but switched to supercharging when Eaton unveiled its latest four-lobe Roots-type blower. This new unit boasts thermal efficiency of nearly 76 percent (up from some 60 in the best three-lobe blowers)-near turbo efficiency with no lag.

http://www.motorworld.net/images/100x56_nophoto.jpghttp://www.motortrend.com/images/viewlarger.gif
(http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0802_2009_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_first_look/photo_02.html)
To preserve forward visibility, the intercooler sends air from the top of the blower out sideways through separate cooling blocks for each bank. There was talk of allowing the blower to stick out through a shaker hood, but water intrusion issues drove the clear polycarbonate window dome.

The engine is based on a modified LS3 6.2-liter block (the LS7's cylinder walls are too thin to withstand boost) and is expected to produce 100 horsepower/liter. Because tweaks are still being made to the cooling system, final testing won't happen for months. (SAE procedures require a 0-to-60 test be run in a car with instruments measuring intake air temperatures at 60 mph so that air can be supplied at precisely the same temperature during the dyno test.) Expect 620-plus horses and around 600 pound feet.

Because blowers add weight, extensive lightening efforts were concentrated in front. The fenders, hood inner and outer panels, roof panel, and C-pillar roof bar are carbon fiber, the tooling for which caps production at 2000 per year. The fibers are visible on the roof and hood inner, and to prevent ultraviolet light from degrading them a special additive costing over $60,000/gallon (!) is added at three-percent concentration in the thin clear-coat layer ($2000/gallon). In all, the new car is expected to weigh about 200 pounds more than a Z06 and to nudge the weight bias forward slightly to 52/48 front/rear.

http://www.motorworld.net/images/100x56_nophoto.jpghttp://www.motortrend.com/images/viewlarger.gif
(http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0802_2009_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_first_look/photo_03.html)
Major developments in the chassis department include Brembo calipers grabbing gigantic carbon-ceramic rotors designed for Ferrari's Enzo and FXX. (At an expected price of near $100,000, the ZR1 will be the least expensive car with standard CCM brakes.) We're assured the brakes work perfectly well when cold, and they don't squeal. Delphi reengineered its magneto-rheological shocks to withstand the extreme temperatures encountered in track duty, allowing the ZR1 to ride like a base coupe and outhandle the Z51 and Z06.

Will it all work? The ZR1 is undergoing GM's full battery of passenger-car durability tests as well as its motorsport torture regimen (250 miles of autocrossing and a 24-hour endurance race), so it should hold up fine. The hardware and numbers sound impressive and we're rooting for the home team, but can a car with a front weight bias really smoke a GT3 or F430 (http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/ferrari/f430/index.html) Scuderia around the 'Ring? And if it does, will the well-heeled queue up to buy one?

[nthfinity]

CHEVROLET ENTERS THE WORLD OF SUPERCARS WITH 2009 CORVETTE ZR1

New, Supercharged LS9 V-8 is the Heart of the ZR1

DETROIT - Chevrolet officially announced the 2009 Corvette ZR1 - an American supercar that brings the technology and engineering refinement of carbon-fiber, ceramics and electronics together in a distinctive design.

"Chevrolet's goal with the new ZR1 is to show what an American supercar can deliver, at a price that trumps exotics that cost two, three or four times as much - and does so with exceptional driveability," said Ed Peper, Chevrolet general manager.

The ZR1's basic stats:

* All-new LS9 supercharged 6.2L V-8 targeted at producing at least 100 horsepower per liter, or 620 horsepower (462 kW), and approximately 595 lb.-ft. of torque (823 Nm)
* Six-speed, close-ratio, race-hardened manual transmission
* New, high-capacity dual-disc clutch
* Higher-capacity and specific-diameter axle half-shafts; enhanced torque tube
* Specific suspension tuning provides more than 1g cornering grip
* Twenty-spoke 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels
* Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires - P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear - developed specifically for the ZR1
* Standard carbon-ceramic, drilled disc brake rotors - 15.5-inch-diameter (394-mm) in the front and 15-inch-diameter (380-mm) in the rear
* Larger brake calipers with substantially increased pad area
* Standard Magnetic Selective Ride Control with track-level suspension
* Wider, carbon-fiber front fenders with ZR1-specific dual vents
* Carbon-fiber hood with a raised, polycarbonate window - offering a view of the intercooler below it
* Carbon-fiber roof panel, roof bow, front fascia splitter and rocker moldings with clear-coated, exposed carbon-fiber weave
* ZR1-specific full-width rear spoiler with raised outboard sections
* Specific gauge cluster with boost gauge (also displayed on the head-up display) and 220-mph (370 km/h) speedometer readout
* Only two options: chrome wheels and a "luxury" package
* Curb weight of approximately 3,350 pounds (1,519 kg)

The specialized components of the new ZR1 work harmoniously to deliver the most powerful and fastest automobile ever produced by General Motors. Performance estimates will be announced closer to vehicle's summer 2008 launch.

"Preliminary testing shows the ZR1 builds on the highly respected Corvette Z06 in every performance category, from acceleration and braking, to cornering grip and top speed," said Peper. "It all boils down to the power-to-weight ratio and the ZR1's is exceptional - better than the Porsche 911 GT2, the Ferrari 599 and even the Lamborghini LP640. In fact, the ZR1 is expected to be the first production Corvette to achieve a top speed of at least 200 mph."

Supercharged LS9 engine

The new LS9 6.2L small-block engine is the power plant the supports the ZR1's performance capability. The enabler of the LS9's performance and refinement is a large, positive-displacement Roots-type supercharger with a new, four-lobe rotor design. It is augmented with an integrated charge cooling system that reduces inlet air temperature for maximum performance.

A sixth-generation supercharger developed by Eaton helps the LS9 make big power and torque at lower rpm and carries it in a wide arc to 6,600 rpm, as it pushes enough air to help the engine maintain power through the upper levels of the rpm band - the area where supercharged performance tends to diminish. Heavy-duty and lightweight reciprocating components enable the engine's confident high-rpm performance.

The LS9 is hand-assembled at GM's Performance Build Center, in Wixom, Mich., and incorporates specialty processes typically seen in racing engines to produce a highly refined and precise product. For example, cast iron cylinder liners are inserted in the aluminum block and are finish-bored and honed with a deck plate installed. The deck plate simulates the pressure and minute dimensional variances applied to the block when the cylinder heads are installed, ensuring a higher degree of accuracy that promotes maximum cylinder head sealing, piston ring fit and overall engine performance.

Transmission and axle

The LS9 engine is backed by a new, stronger six-speed manual transmission and a twin-disc clutch that provide exceptional clamping power, while maintaining an easy clutch effort. ZR1-specific gearing in the transmission provides a steep first-gear ratio that helps launch the car, and top speed is achieved in sixth gear - a change from the fifth-gear top-speed run-outs in the manual-transmission Corvette and Corvette Z06.

As the term implies, the twin-disc clutch system employs a pair of discs, which spreads out the engine's torque load over a wider area. This enables tremendous clamping power when the clutch is engaged, while also helping to dissipate heat better and extend the life of the clutch.

The twin-disc clutch system also contributes to the ZR1's exceptional driving quality, with smooth and easy shifting. The twin-disc system's design enables a 25-percent reduction in inertia, thanks to smaller, 260-mm plates, corresponding to a pedal effort that is similar to the Corvette Z06's 290-mm single-disc system.

The rear axle also is stronger in the ZR1 and features asymmetrical axle-shaft diameters that were developed after careful testing to provide optimal torque management. The axles are also mounted on a more horizontal plane that correlates with the wider width of the rear wheels and tires.

Ride and handling

The ZR1 is built on the same aluminum-intensive chassis as the Corvette Z06 and features similar independent SLA front and rear suspensions, with aluminum upper and lower control arms. Where the ZR1 differs is the suspension tuning, which was optimized for the car's steamroller-wide front and rear tires.

Magnetic Selective Ride Control is standard and tuned specifically for the ZR1. The system's ability to deliver a compliant ride with nearly instantaneous damping adjustments enabled engineers to develop a surprisingly supple ride quality in a supercar that still delivers cornering grip of more than 1g.

From a high-performance perspective, Magnetic Selective Ride Control helps the rear axle remain planted during launch for smooth, hop-free acceleration. It also helps suppress axle movement when cornering on broken or uneven pavement.

Brakes, wheels and tires

Commensurate with the ZR1's engine output is the braking system, which is headlined by carbon-ceramic brake rotors. Found on only a few exotics and more expensive supercars, carbon-ceramic brake rotors are made of a carbon-fiber-reinforced ceramic silicon carbide material . Their advantage comes in low mass and resistance to wear and heat. In fact, the rotors should never show any corrosion or require replacement for the life of the vehicle, when used in normal driving.

The vented and cross-drilled rotors on the ZR1 measure 15.5 inches (394 mm) in diameter in the front and 15 inches (380 mm) in diameter in the rear - making them among the largest carbon-ceramic rotors available on any production vehicle.

Clamping down on the high-tech rotors are six-piston front calipers and four-piston rear calipers, each painted a ZR1-exclusive blue. The front pads are equivalent in size to the largest on any production car with a single-pad design - double that of the Corvette Z06's 70-sq.-cm. front pads.

The brakes are visible through the ZR1's exclusive wheels: 20-spoke alloy rims that measure 19 inches in diameter in the front and 20 inches in the rear. They come standard with a bright, Sterling Silver paint finish and chrome versions are optional. The wheels are wrapped in Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires developed specifically for the ZR1, measuring P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear.

Exclusive exterior

The ZR1 is instantly recognizable, with perhaps the most identifiable feature a raised, all-carbon-fiber hood that incorporates a clear, polycarbonate window. The window provides a view of the top of the engine's intercooler, with the legend "LS9 SUPERCHARGED" embossed on the left and right sides, and an engine cover with the Corvette crossed flags logo debossed at the front.

The underside of the hood has an exposed carbon-fiber-weave. Exposed carbon-fiber is used on the roof, roof bow, rocker molding and front splitter. These exterior components are protected by a specially developed glossy, UV-resistant clear coat that resists yellowing and wear.

Widened, carbon-fiber front fenders with specific, dual lower vents, and a full-width, body-color rear spoiler incorporating the center high-mounted stop lamp, are also unique to the ZR1. All of the exterior features of the car were developed to enhance high-speed stability and driver control.

Interior details
The ZR1's interior builds on the brand's dual-cockpit heritage, with high-quality materials, craftsmanship and functionality that support the premium-quality experience promised by the car's performance. The ZR1's cabin differs from the Corvette and Corvette Z06 with the following:

* ZR1-logo sill plates
* ZR1-logo headrest embroidery
* Specific gauge cluster with "ZR1" logo on the tachometer and a 220-mph (370 km/h) readout on the speedometer
* Boost gauge added to the instrument cluster and Head-Up Display

The "base" ZR1 (RPO 1LZ) comes with accoutrements based on the Z06, including lightweight seats and lightweight content. The uplevel interior package includes unique, power-adjustable and leather-trimmed sport seats (embroidered with the ZR1 logo); custom, leather-wrapped interior available in four colors; navigation system, Bluetooth connectivity and more.

By the numbers

In addition to the exterior cues and powertrain, ZR1 models will be distinguished from other Corvette models by their VIN. Each will carry a unique, identifying VIN digit, as well as a sequential build number. This makes it easy to determine the build number of a specific car - information treasured by enthusiasts and collectors. For example, a ZR1 with a VIN ending in "0150" would indicate it is the 150 th ZR1 built for the model year.

3350 Lbs. :(

[gangajas]

I wonder why they haven't equipped the car with proper bucket seats.

[acmarttin]

So Z06: 3132 lbs. at 505 hp
& ZR1: 3350 lbs. at 620 hp

The one in the pics with the black roof reminds me of the NSX-R :(

[fabro_s]

Lets see if it would handle the battle with the powerful SLR and the exceptional 599.

But well everybody said the Z06 would fail against Ferrari and Lamborghini and everybody had a big surprise at the end...

[5vz-fe]

The transmission seems like a good upgrade for current Z06 owners. Maybe it can be obtained from GM Parts?

[RC45]

The transmission seems like a good upgrade for current Z06 owners. Maybe it can be obtained from GM Parts?

I am very interested in that little tid bit ;)

The cost of getting my 6th swapped out for a 202mph gear ratio and the hardening rebuild, is about the cost of a new tranny anyway.

If they keep the 3.42 rear end, I am guessing the 6th gear will be about .75 which would give the ZR1 a 202mph topend at 6500rpm.

My 7000 redline would get me to 215.... so I would be able to play with the new kids at top speed as well ;)

If they opt for a .71 then the ZR1 will be good for 210... and I would be geared for 229 :twisted:

[graywolf624]

Old hotness:
Comments about how large your dubbs are.

New hotness:
Comments about how your brake rotors are bigger then the other guys wheels..

15.5" good grief.

[CMonakar]

Seems like the returns progressively diminish when going from the Z06 to ZR1 as compared with the C6 and Z06.

The paint color and rear spoiler look cheap. The back doesn't look distinctive at all. The fenders are nice, but I prefer the Z06 fenders. I like the raw carbon roof, and the front profile of the car with the new hood and wider fenders. The carbon brakes are a really nice touch. The supercharger sounds very interesting. Overall I'm very impressed they built it. Can't wait to see what kind of numbers it generates.

[5vz-fe]

I am very interested in that little tid bit ;)

The cost of getting my 6th swapped out for a 202mph gear ratio and the hardening rebuild, is about the cost of a new tranny anyway.

If they keep the 3.42 rear end, I am guessing the 6th gear will be about .75 which would give the ZR1 a 202mph topend at 6500rpm.

My 7000 redline would get me to 215.... so I would be able to play with the new kids at top speed as well ;)

If they opt for a .71 then the ZR1 will be good for 210... and I would be geared for 229 :twisted:

215 sounds very good to me already. With that you can try very much harder at the track to find your next weakest link LOL.

[r2r]

Nice! Hopefully the power increase can outweigh the weight difference and give substantially better performance figures.

[5vz-fe]

100 more hp should have no problem outweighting the 150 more lbs. However, why on earth do you need 19/20 inch wheels?...Put on a set of 18s and save urself 50lbs unsprung weight.

Why add a root type supercharger just to get 100hp? You could have change the cam and fine tune the air/fuel ratio and get more than 100hp out of the LS7. If they go the NA route, they would have maintained the perfect 50/50 balance instead of the nose heavy 52/48.

The price tag is absolutely ridiculous...90-120k?..Oh comeon. I bet at least 20k of the price hike is caused by the braking system. I don't see there is anything wrong with the ones on the Z.

Tom Wallace, vehicle line executive of Performance Cars, described driving the ZR1 as simply awesome. "It's fast and refined," he confided, adding that it has "a soft clutch, great midrange torque, compliant ride and brakes that don't squeal." He alluded to an expectation that the ZR1 would beat a Ferrari F430. Not just talk, as Tom races competitively. Pricing hasn't been announced, but we know buyers are lined up around the country. We've called the Z06 a budget-minded supercar, so the ZR1 is likely to be a reasonably priced exotic. We'll venture a guess between $90,000 and $120,000. And at that price, the performance is sure to be a steal!
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6298&page_number=3

Oh for pete sake, beat a 430?? At least aim alittle higher. He's more like dis-ing the ZR1 than prasing it.

[RC45]

100 more hp should have no problem outweighting the 150 more lbs. However, why on earth do you need 19/20 inch wheels?...Put on a set of 18s and save urself 50lbs unsprung weight.

Yeah, with the ZR1 at 620bhp, I will need to bump my NA 660 to at least 700 for a little insurance - as we know that many ZR1's wont be staying stock, and exhaust, pulley and ECU tweaks would eat up that 40bhp cushion I have in no time - plus they get PS2's as stock tyres *SHOCK*.... that means from day 1 they have big velcro hoops for tyres.

Now if only the C6 came in a fixed roof coupe hardtop profile instead of the fast back ;)

[sameerrao]

I am very interested in that little tid bit ;)

The cost of getting my 6th swapped out for a 202mph gear ratio and the hardening rebuild, is about the cost of a new tranny anyway.

If they keep the 3.42 rear end, I am guessing the 6th gear will be about .75 which would give the ZR1 a 202mph topend at 6500rpm.

My 7000 redline would get me to 215.... so I would be able to play with the new kids at top speed as well ;)

If they opt for a .71 then the ZR1 will be good for 210... and I would be geared for 229 :twisted:


I take it you are not too impressed with the ZR1 considering it is not a NA engine (wonder if they have track tested it for heat soak) and it is heavier than the stock Z06.

I wonder if they should have gone for a NA 8 litre lump or hotter engine tune instead of SCing it. I bet it would have been lighter option.

[RC45]

I take it you are not too impressed with the ZR1 considering it is not a NA engine (wonder if they have track tested it for heat soak) and it is heavier than the stock Z06.

I wonder if they should have gone for a NA 8 litre lump or hotter engine tune instead of SCing it. I bet it would have been lighter option.

Not impressed at all (but the car looks sexy with those bling wheels and the news of Michelin PS2's stock is good) - but the SC was cheapest way they had to make a quick n dirty 600+bhp car and meet emmisions and fuel consumption needs.

Now Dodge didnt care (or maybe their fewer produciton numbers mean they can ignore the CAFE rules) as they just punched the V10 to 8.4 litres and called it a day.

There is a new Viper at MTI that they are playign with - stock its 600bhp translated to almost 560rwhp 540rwtq on the same dyno that showed my car putting down 580rwhp 508rwtq - so the ZR1 better bring its A-Game, this new Viper is a monster right out the box.

And I better find some NA HP quick to be able to park in the big boys parking lot :P

I have a few tricks up my sleeve arriving in January - so hopefully we will make the NA 700bhp mark and be ready for the new kids. :twisted:

[5vz-fe]

Yeah, with the ZR1 at 620bhp, I will need to bump my NA 660 to at least 700 for a little insurance - as we know that many ZR1's wont be staying stock, and exhaust, pulley and ECU tweaks would eat up that 40bhp cushion I have in no time - plus they get PS2's as stock tyres *SHOCK*.... that means from day 1 they have big velcro hoops for tyres.

Now if only the C6 came in a fixed roof coupe hardtop profile instead of the fast back ;)

How much is a good cond. C6 Z going for right now? :mrgreen:

[RC45]

How much is a good cond. C6 Z going for right now? :mrgreen:

Mid 50's to mid 60's still.

[5vz-fe]

Given in another year or 2 I guess. So any hint on your January upgrades?

[graywolf624]

00 more hp should have no problem outweighting the 150 more lbs. However, why on earth do you need 19/20 inch wheels?...Put on a set of 18s and save urself 50lbs unsprung weight.

*Points to the 15.5 " wheels one more time. Wont fit under 19s.

[5vz-fe]

The price tag is absolutely ridiculous...90-120k?..Oh comeon. I bet at least 20k of the price hike is caused by the braking system. I don't see there is anything wrong with the ones on the Z.

Point to the unnecessary 15.5 brakes

[RC45]

This car is aimed not at people who might cross shop between a 911 TT and the new ZR1 for a single car, but rather aimed at the well heeled enthusiast who will buy the ZR1 to put alongside his/her 911TT... so for $120 large, it s a great cheap 2nd super car :P

Plus it will most probably be one of his/her fastest cars hehe

[sentra_dude]

Well I'm glad this car is a reality, but I'm not a fan of the styling. The styling enhancements on the Z06 work much better. The color is interesting, but it does not suit this car. The wheels are disgusting and too large and that front side vent is hideous. The rear spoiler looks like it was glued on, but at least its not some kind of wing. Overall I'm pretty disappointed, I think they could have done a much better job 'muscling-up' this ZR1. I was hoping they would go towards darker wheels as well, instead of these polished things. Honestly I'd rather have a Z06 and do some simple mods to the engine.

[HeilSvenska]

The color is interesting, but it does not suit this car. The wheels are disgusting and too large and that front side vent is hideous. The rear spoiler looks like it was glued on, but at least its not some kind of wing.

It doesn't look so bad in darker colors and non-chrome rims. Dare I say it looks good like this?
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2007/12/medium_2122965735_1667995491_o.jpg

I just can't wait for someone to do a performance test on this car! :twisted:

[loliea]

620HP? Disappointing. They should have given the engine to be mod by Lotus like the previous ZR1.

[Svensson]

It doesn't look so bad in darker colors and non-chrome rims. Dare I say it looks good like this?



The ZR1 does look great in dark grey, but I was hoping for a bit more C6RS (http://www.prattmillerc6rs.com/index.htm) looks:

http://www.prattmillerc6rs.com/images/slideshow/pic1.jpg
http://www.prattmillerc6rs.com/images/slideshow/pic4.jpg

[HeilSvenska]

620HP? Disappointing. They should have given the engine to be mod by Lotus like the previous ZR1.

No no no. If you were going to give Lotus anything to work on, it'd be the chassis. :mrgreen:

[RC45]

620HP? Disappointing. They should have given the engine to be mod by Lotus like the previous ZR1.

Actually, the 620 super charged HP is on a par with every other european supercharged engine - Lotus would have had ZERO to add to any modern engine development ;)

And the 620bhp from one of the lightest least mechanically sophisticated smallest footprint engines around is a pretty good result.

[graywolf624]

They should have given the engine to be mod by Lotus like the previous ZR1.
GM no longer owns lotus so I doubt youll see that collaboration again.. least till they buy them again.

That being said.. a 620 bhp engine.. it probably weighs less then a standard v6 out of a bmw 3 series.. So I wouldnt be knocking it too much.

[pagani]

Actually, the 620 super charged HP is on a par with every other european supercharged engine - Lotus would have had ZERO to add to any modern engine development ;)

And the 620bhp from one of the lightest least mechanically sophisticated smallest footprint engines around is a pretty good result.
You have love to push rod engines sometimes.
:-);-)

[loliea]

Actually, the 620 super charged HP is on a par with every other european supercharged engine - Lotus would have had ZERO to add to any modern engine development ;)
Yeah, I guess you're right. Lotus doesn't do engine as they use to 15 years ago. The engine evolution I was thinking about was aluminum DOHC V8 "a la" ZR1 of 91, but that's way more expensive then plugging a supercharger.
With so many tuner already selling supercharger kits for the z06 I don't see the need of make this ZR1 (beside the badge maybe and the look).

[RC45]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Lotus doesn't do engine as they use to 15 years ago. The engine evolution I was thinking about was aluminum DOHC V8 "a la" ZR1 of 91, but that's way more expensive then plugging a supercharger.
With so many tuner already selling supercharger kits for the z06 I don't see the need of make this ZR1 (beside the badge maybe and the look).


Well a big advantage of this GM setup, is its emmisions legal, has a warranty and is a complete turnkey package.

Some people like that - others like to tinker till its right. :)

[pagani]

That swap some interior parts like the seat for lighter bucket seats maby carbon fibre and a roll cage than a would be more of a road legal track car
:-):-P

[SnakeBitten]

In black or dark colors I think it looks pretty good..Simply because it kinda hides those nasty side vents ....I do really hate the chrome wheels, hideous front side vents[WTF] and the peekaboo hood[actually its growing on me now]....I concur on the 620hp not being enough especially with regular Vipers dynoing 545rwhp[around 620 crank]...Worried about heat soak on the track....Gotta give the edge to the NA Viper on that note....And the biggest letdown is its now less than 100lbs lighter than the regular Viper and only about 10-20lbs lighter than the ACR....Unless that 620 is RWHP a la GTR 480hp rating, then Im disappointed....

[RC45]

In black or dark colors I think it looks pretty good..Simply because it kinda hides those nasty side vents ....I do really hate the chrome wheels, hideous front side vents[WTF] and the peekaboo hood[actually its growing on me now]....I concur on the 620hp not being enough especially with regular Vipers dynoing 545rwhp[around 620 crank]...Worried about heat soak on the track....Gotta give the edge to the NA Viper on that note....And the biggest letdown is its now less than 100lbs lighter than the regular Viper and only about 10-20lbs lighter than the ACR....Unless that 620 is RWHP a la GTR 480hp rating, then Im disappointed....

You are sorely mistaken if you think ANY stock Viper will stand a chance at all of rolling with the new ZR1.

The HUGE torque curve absolutely CRUSHES even the new 8.4l Viper from 1600rpm all the way past its redline.

To put it into perspective I have been visiting with the folks who built my car (they have a new 8.4l 600bhp Viper as a shop 'test and tune' car at the moment) and they concur, the new ZR1 will crush my car (660bhp) from a roll and totally obliterate the new Viper...

How badly? The new ZR1 has pretty much the same power delivery as every supercharged stroker LS2/LS6 that has ever been produced by a tuner.

My car may stand a chance in the very upper reachs og my rev range, but would probably need to run to 200mph to mak eup the 5 or 6 cars it would pull on me from a 60mph roll.

To even think the 8.4l will stand a chance in a street encounter is insane.

The only way a Viper will stand a chance against the LS9 is if it is blown itself.

Period.

End of story.

No contest.

On a road course in the heat of summer, it might very well be another story - at least, this is what we all suspect - but what of the LS9 has little to no heat soak?

I can tell you if this new supercharger is able to keep heat soak at bay, then my LS7 might just go from 660bhp. to 660rwhp and still be a usable track day car ;)

In case you missed it, eher is a dynochart that has been floating around - read em and weep: (my cars curves shadow the 8.4l Viper, peak about 20ftlb higher and 40bhp higher and makes power all the way to 7100rpm)

http://picsorban.com/upload/gmgraph.jpg

[SnakeBitten]

You are sorely mistaken if you think ANY stock Viper will stand a chance at all of rolling with the new ZR1.

The HUGE torque curve absolutely CRUSHES even the new 8.4l Viper from 1600rpm all the way past its redline.

To put it into perspective I have been visiting with the folks who built my car (they have a new 8.4l 600bhp Viper as a shop 'test and tune' car at the moment) and they concur, the new ZR1 will crush my car (660bhp) from a roll and totally obliterate the new Viper...

How badly? The new ZR1 has pretty much the same power delivery as every supercharged stroker LS2/LS6 that has ever been produced by a tuner.

My car may stand a chance in the very upper reachs og my rev range, but would probably need to run to 200mph to mak eup the 5 or 6 cars it would pull on me from a 60mph roll.

To even think the 8.4l will stand a chance in a street encounter is insane.

The only way a Viper will stand a chance against the LS9 is if it is blown itself.

Period.

End of story.

No contest.

On a road course in the heat of summer, it might very well be another story - at least, this is what we all suspect - but what of the LS9 has little to no heat soak?

I can tell you if this new supercharger is able to keep heat soak at bay, then my LS7 might just go from 660bhp. to 660rwhp and still be a usable track day car ;)

In case you missed it, eher is a dynochart that has been floating around - read em and weep: (my cars curves shadow the 8.4l Viper, peak about 20ftlb higher and 40bhp higher and makes power all the way to 7100rpm)

http://picsorban.com/upload/gmgraph.jpg

Good ole RC:) The edge I give the Viper is heat soak factor....It plagues most every other SC car so unless GM has a magic SC I dont see it being any different on a typical summer track day ...I agree that the ZR1 should beat the Viper acceleration wise:) Everyone pretty much thinks it will be faster up top but on a roadcourse vs the ACR??That will be the match Im eagerly awaiting....Dont care which one wins as Im a fan of both...

[RC45]

Good ole RC:) The edge I give the Viper is heat soak factor....It plagues most every other SC car so unless GM has a magic SC I dont see it being any different on a typical summer track day ...I agree that the ZR1 should beat the Viper acceleration wise:) Everyone pretty much thinks it will be faster up top but on a roadcourse vs the ACR??That will be the match Im eagerly awaiting....Dont care which one wins as Im a fan of both...

Comparing the ACR to the ZR1 is just absurd.

One was built as "the ultimate track racer" the other as a PURE street car.

:)

And remember, I dont particularly like the ZR1, I just appreciate it will crush my car in a straight line - and pretty much force me to drive 9/10's in the twisty bits just to keep up.

:)

[SnakeBitten]

Comparing the ACR to the ZR1 is just absurd.

One was built as "the ultimate track racer" the other as a PURE street car.

:)

And remember, I dont particularly like the ZR1, I just appreciate it will crush my car in a straight line - and pretty much force me to drive 9/10's in the twisty bits just to keep up.

:)

lol...Why is it absurd???Both are streetlegal in the fullest sense with no roll cage or parachute....Both have leather seats and "CAN" come with AC/Radio etc.......BTW the ZR1 is still lighter and most likely more powerful so why shouldnt they be compared???Dodge made the ACR to target the ZR1 period;-)

BTW tha dyno chart is weird so Ill wait till and official dyno......Ill give you this...The ACR will definately be MUCH slower than teh ZR1 in the straights due to 1000lbs of downforce aero mods....Its top speed is even 12mph slower than the Regular Viper....I fully believe the ZR1 will top out more than 210mph so it will be the top speed/highway champ hands down......

On a circuit track though, I think the ACR will lay wood to it.....No shame in that....I cant wait for a head to head between the ACR/ZR1/Gt2/Scuderia/Superleggera etc........It will be epic....

[RC45]

lol...Why is it absurd???
Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that it is absurd.

Both are streetlegal in the fullest sense with no roll cage or parachute....Both have leather seats and "CAN" come with AC/Radio etc.......BTW the ZR1 is still lighter and most likely more powerful so why shouldnt they be compared???Dodge made the ACR to target the ZR1 period;-)

Typical Viper fanboye response.

If Dodge built the ACR to take ont he ZR1 then are stupid idiots with no brains - they had no need to "take on the ZR1" it is a streetcar the American Club Racer, is a racecar - just like the previous ACR. ;)


BTW tha dyno chart is weird so Ill wait till and official dyno......

How is the dyno chart weird? Because your precious Viper is not "on top"?

The dynochart for your precious Viper looks weird? You know it has a variable timing cam right ? Think of it as a Viper with VTEC :)

Does the ZR1 dyno look weird?

That is what roots type blower torque curves look like. I am guessing you haven't seen many.


Ill give you this...The ACR will definately be MUCH slower than teh ZR1 in the straights due to 1000lbs of downforce aero mods....

It is a race car


Its top speed is even 12mph slower than the Regular Viper....

It is a race car


I fully believe the ZR1 will top out more than 210mph so it will be the top speed/highway champ hands down......

It is not a race car - never was claimed to be one...


On a circuit track though, I think the ACR will lay wood to it.....

It is a race car...


No shame in that....I cant wait for a head to head between the ACR/ZR1/Gt2/Scuderia/Superleggera etc........It will be epic....
No one ever said there was shame in it - however, look how one sided that comparison is... the Corvette is a in-the-traffic-with-creature-comforts-no-compromise-to-comfort car while the ACR, Scuderia, Superleggy and GT2 Clubsport are all race car versions of the cars - lets see the street car versions of those come out and play.

Whats up with that?

You want to compare cars, do so within the same category at least.

The ZR1 is the King of the Hill - once again.. :)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

:)

[graywolf624]

BTW the ZR1 is still lighter and most likely more powerful so why shouldnt they be compared???
The Bentley Continental GT is more powerful then a Mazda Miata.. That doesn't mean that comparing them is particularly useful. The ACR is aimed at the same category as the gt3. It isn't exactly a practical grocery getter. The ZR1, good bad or indifferent, is aimed at the guy cruising in his turbo or maybe gt2. Different market different constraints.

Heres another one. Its like comparing my 2008 Vette to a 2008 Lotus Exige. While they might perform similarly on the track, the comparison ends soon after when you realize anyone who drives the Lotus daily would have to be batshit crazy.

[SnakeBitten]

Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that it is absurd.

Typical Viper fanboye response.

If Dodge built the ACR to take ont he ZR1 then are stupid idiots with no brains - they had no need to "take on the ZR1" it is a streetcar the American Club Racer, is a racecar - just like the previous ACR. ;)


How is the dyno chart weird? Because your precious Viper is not "on top"?

The dynochart for your precious Viper looks weird? You know it has a variable timing cam right ? Think of it as a Viper with VTEC :)

Does the ZR1 dyno look weird?

That is what roots type blower torque curves look like. I am guessing you haven't seen many.


It is a race car


It is a race car


It is not a race car - never was claimed to be one...


It is a race car...


No one ever said there was shame in it - however, look how one sided that comparison is... the Corvette is a in-the-traffic-with-creature-comforts-no-compromise-to-comfort car while the ACR, Scuderia, Superleggy and GT2 Clubsport are all race car versions of the cars - lets see the street car versions of those come out and play.

Whats up with that?

You want to compare cars, do so within the same category at least.

The ZR1 is the King of the Hill - once again.. :)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

:)

I forgot how ignorant your ass can be..Thanks for reminding me:laugh:

Im a fan of both but because I feel they should be compared it mystically makes me a Viper fanboy :laugh:

With your scenario it looks like you are a Vette fanboy using your logic....The only way for your "precious" Vette to remain king of the hill all around is to ignore the ACR...That way you can be king of the hill over the regular Viper...You do know that the 08 viper is a responce to the Z06 while the ACR is a responce to the ZR1 right cupcake?:mrgreen:

You can hide behind the obvious but it wont change what the ACR was in responce to.....bottomline is that the ACR is NOT a no compromise racecar unless the owner choses to forgo the radio/ac etc....Its just like any other Viper except downforce and same interior[if the owner choses] and lightened suspension/brake pieces..Where is the roll cage??Fully stripped out interior??Why is there still leather seats???And radio and AC if the owner chooses???...I guess the Nismo 350z is a racecar too since it comes with downforce inducing bodywork lol...As well as the stock F430 as it comes with downforce as well[Not talking about the scuderia]....

BTW lets try to keep this above kindergarten level eh???:mrgreen:

[SnakeBitten]

The Bentley Continental GT is more powerful then a Mazda Miata.. That doesn't mean that comparing them is particularly useful. The ACR is aimed at the same category as the gt3. It isn't exactly a practical grocery getter. The ZR1, good bad or indifferent, is aimed at the guy cruising in his turbo or maybe gt2. Different market different constraints.

Heres another one. Its like comparing my 2008 Vette to a 2008 Lotus Exige. While they might perform similarly on the track, the comparison ends soon after when you realize anyone who drives the Lotus daily would have to be batshit crazy.

The King of the hill title is about performance homey hate to break it to ya....Between Vette and Viper thats all it was every about...Not creature comforts, cup holders etc...IF what you an RC45 are claiming is actually correct then the Viper and Vette would never have been competing against one another as the regular Viper is far less comfortable/practical than any Corvette made since the Vipers existance...The fact that now some of you want to excuse the presense of the ACR boggles my mind....Its basically the same Viper except for OPTIONS to remove certain creature comforts, some downforce and lightened unsprung weight.....Hardly a fully focused racecar....

If they shouldnt be compared then the ZR1 shouldnt be compared to the regular Viper either...therefore the ZR1 cannot be labeled the king of the hill.....Simple logic.....No Viper is a better daily driver than a Vette...So lets pretend they shouldnt be compared than...;-) You cant have it both ways...

[HeilSvenska]

IF what you an RC45 are claiming is actually correct then the Viper and Vette would never have been competing against one another as the regular Viper is far less comfortable/practical than any Corvette made since the Vipers existance...

You got it! Corvettes and Vipers don't compete in a same "class" as say... between a 3 series and an A4, but they are both still competing for the ultimate American performance car title.



Its basically the same Viper except for OPTIONS to remove certain creature comforts, some downforce and lightened unsprung weight.....Hardly a fully focused racecar....

Well, Chrysler's trying hard to market it as a race car if anything. You should know what ACR stands for. American Club Racer? It was designed to be a race car for amateur (and more) racers who might drive up to a track (with a support car, I guess), have run at a stock car category in a race, and drive it back home.




If they shouldnt be compared then the ZR1 shouldnt be compared to the regular Viper either...therefore the ZR1 cannot be labeled the king of the hill.....Simple logic.....No Viper is a better daily driver than a Vette...So lets pretend they shouldnt be compared than...;-) You cant have it both ways...

Webster's defines "King of the Hill" as

Main Entry: king of the hill
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a recreational children's game based on attempts to reach the top of a hill or mound and keep possession of it


Corvette's always been the King of the Hill. Corvette lineup in general. GM and Chrysler's been pushing Corvettes and Vipers to be at the top of the American performance car pantheon, but we all know Corvettes always come out on top. (for a good reason) And as the new range topper, the ZR1 is indeed King of the Hill.

[nthfinity]

You got it! Corvettes and Vipers don't compete in a same "class" as say... between a 3 series and an A4, but they are both still competing for the ultimate American performance car title.





Well, Chrysler's trying hard to market it as a race car if anything. You should know what ACR stands for. American Club Racer? It was designed to be a race car for amateur (and more) racers who might drive up to a track (with a support car, I guess), have run at a stock car category in a race, and drive it back home.





Webster's defines "King of the Hill" as


Corvette's always been the King of the Hill. Corvette lineup in general. GM and Chrysler's been pushing Corvettes and Vipers to be at the top of the American performance car pantheon, but we all know Corvettes always come out on top. (for a good reason) And as the new range topper, the ZR1 is indeed King of the Hill.

King of the hill? Well, until the ACR and ZR-1 are on the street, the title still remains in the hands of Ford ;) The chassis is far superior to that in the C6 Z-whatevers, or the SRT-10 ACR etc. .... power may be up on both cars compared to the GT, and the viper has the added benefit of "n/a" motor... and "feels" about as fast as a GT, perhaps slightly quicker in a roll from 50-100 by a fraction.

Of the bunch, Ford were the only to go with a proper mid-engined layout too :P in the end, the GT became the first mass production American Exotic car (saleen's aren't mass produced, and neither were Vector's) . People claimed the GT market would tank... but as it turns out, you still can't find a low miles car for below MSRP!

Back to the topic at hand.... can the ZR-1 be compared to the ACR? They aren't the same kind of car, aimed at the same kind of person; but the comparisons will happen inevitably.... the GT2 and GT3 are aimed at different buyers as well.

[RC45]

I forgot how ignorant your ass can be..Thanks for reminding me:laugh:

If by ignorant - youmean correcting every one of your factually incorrect statements then so be it.

You were wrong, incorrect and misinformed on each of your points.

I am sorry - I am not going to sit around and watch someone spread rubbish lies and misinformation.



Im a fan of both but because I feel they should be compared it mystically makes me a Viper fanboy :laugh:

You pulled rubbish nonsense and misinformation out of thin air.

I used proof fact and known information.


With your scenario it looks like you are a Vette fanboy using your logic....

I am NOT a ZR1 fan - I am simply exposing you to the facts.



The only way for your "precious" Vette to remain king of the hill all around is to ignore the ACR...That way you can be king of the hill over the regular Viper...You do know that the 08 viper is a responce to the Z06 while the ACR is a responce to the ZR1 right cupcake?:mrgreen:

You again are incorrect wrong and misinformed.

Just because YOU say the ACR is in response to the ZR1 does not mak it so - Dodge doesnt even say so - the ACR has NEVER been inresponse to a street Corvette - it never has to be - it is a race car.

The current ACR (I am sure you are aware of the previous ACR's) and the ZR1 were both on the drawing board a long time ago, independantly of each oher and their predescessors.


You can hide behind the obvious but it wont change what the ACR was in responce to.....

Again - you are wrong, incorrect and misinformed.

Why would Dodge counter a car that cannot be raced with a race car ?

If anything, the ACR is in response the C5 Z06 and C6 Coupe (not the Z06) as the C6 Coupe in modified form (and until recently the C5 Z06) were being competitivly raced agains Viper ACR's and Competition Coupes in US competition... but the C6 Z06 has never been raced - ever, in any class - (and until the limited edition of the specially built C6 Z06 GT3 racer in europe (which is not even a GM car in the end but rather a privately modded car) never even been considered for racing)

Again, you are rather poorly equipped to debate these cars at this level, and still remain arrogant in your respones - you have been soundly trounced with fact and truth - walk away while you still have a shred of dignity left.

There is no class for the C6 Z06 to race in - Dodge has no reason to counter the Z06 with a race car - please, if you want to argue debate or discuss, please arm yourself with facts and knowledge before you come troll and start arguments for arguments sake.


bottomline is that the ACR is NOT a no compromise racecar unless the owner choses to forgo the radio/ac etc....Its just like any other Viper except downforce and same interior[if the owner choses] and lightened suspension/brake pieces..

Wow - again - you are ignorant of he facts - yet keep arguing like an idiot. You are simply acting like a troll to start some kind of e-drama here - even when you are proven to be incorrect ininformed and wrong you keep arguing - If you cant discuss and debate with facts, and have to resprt to being a troll you are needed on these forums.. I really feel like reporting your troll like behaviour to the site operator as people like you the site can do without - debating is one thing, but tryong to forcefully maintain a point of view when you are wrong is just being a stupid troll.


Where is the roll cage??

Your point? The car is a homologated legal class race car that would get a SERIES spec roll cage welded in at the time of prep (You knew that roll cages were series spec right? and not univesl - thats why few cars come with them) - the C6 Z06 cannot even receive a series spec rollcage for anyone series - as the frame is ALUMINUM... again, why would Dodge counter a street car with a race car? They wouldnt as the ACR is NOT in response the C6 Z06.


Fully stripped out interior??Why is there still leather seats???And radio and AC if the owner chooses???...I guess the Nismo 350z is a racecar too since it comes with downforce inducing bodywork lol...As well as the stock F430 as it comes with downforce as well[Not talking about the scuderia]....

Again - please stick to facts and truths not what YOU perceive to be so.

If you are not prepared to keep your discussions at the factual level, why bother coming here to discuss things anyway?


BTW lets try to keep this above kindergarten level eh???:mrgreen:
Dont even try patronize me or anyone else that corrects you when you are wrong.

Just dont bother participating - MW is not one of your "fan boy" web forums where false information is spread or tolerated.

[Shinigami]

I wonder if they'll be selling this over here in Switzerland. I'm a little sad to see it's not using the 7 liter engine from the Z06. I'd have much rather seen that pushed NA to 600 hp and beyond (or even with an SC/Turbo) then the one they went with.

It's a bloody shame the dealers here are ripping ones ass off when trying to sell the Vette's tho'. I mean, the Z06 sells around $70k in the US, which translated to Swiss francs (due to the weakening dollar) would be like 80k swiss francs, yet the dealers have the audacity to rip us off to the tune of 120k swiss francs for one. *groan*

If the prices followed suit, the car would be such an amazing deal, but as it stands, at those prices one can get second hand supercars from Ferrari and the like. Of course if they're worth that money is another question altogether, but still...

Perhaps with a few hardened discussions, one could get the price down quite a lot :D

Anyway, rock-on this ZR1, it can only mean better deals in the long run ;)

[nthfinity]

......

Its not cheap to ship cars, but, for sure cheaper then 120,000 swiss francs... a Dealer option on the vette is even to take delivery from the factory... so if there is a will, there is a way.

[RC45]

Its not cheap to ship cars, but, for sure cheaper then 120,000 swiss francs... a Dealer option on the vette is even to take delivery from the factory... so if there is a will, there is a way.

Dealer gouging is a well refined practice that folks the world over practice - and from what I recall Switzerland is VERY strict about "grey market" imports - as in its not practically possible to do.

I seem to remember a gent on the Z06 Forums went to great expense to import a C5 Z06, and in the end had to give up the car, resell it to a German garage, that then sold the car back to him as a German Used car to get it into Switzerland - and I believe in the end it is not registered to a Swiss address.

But then again the entire story may just have been e-drama ;)

[HeilSvenska]

King of the hill? Well, until the ACR and ZR-1 are on the street, the title still remains in the hands of Ford ;) The chassis is far superior to that in the C6 Z-whatevers, or the SRT-10 ACR etc. .... power may be up on both cars compared to the GT, and the viper has the added benefit of "n/a" motor... and "feels" about as fast as a GT, perhaps slightly quicker in a roll from 50-100 by a fraction.


Well. I didn't mention the Ford GT, because it's a one-off special. The same reason I didn't mention the Saleen S7. etc... :-P:mrgreen:

Viper and Corvette, though. As long as Dodge and Chevy exist, I doubt they'll ever go away.

[nthfinity]

Well. I didn't mention the Ford GT, because it's a one-off special. The same reason I didn't mention the Saleen S7. etc... :-P:mrgreen:

Viper and Corvette, though. As long as Dodge and Chevy exist, I doubt they'll ever go away.

if by "one off" you mean nearly 4000 of them, then yeah, its "one off" (more produced then planned ZR-1 or ACR production BTW)

[SnakeBitten]

Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45:laugh: But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol:mrgreen:...

Anyway SRT themselves when asked about the ZR1 responded that they aint worried and had something for it...Tah dah the ACR.....Bottomline is these cars will be pitted against each other by the mags regardless of whatever you or I feel is right.....They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared.....

As for they guy looking up in the dictionary for King of the hill LOL.....Dont overthink things....King of the hill has always been about performance with these two...Not cup holders, or interior fit an finish or how hedonistically they excel......Performance period....The C6 Z06 took that title convincingly as it outperformed the Viper...Now the 08 Viper took the title back...Oh but wait...They shouldnt be compared right??? No one told the masses or the magazines....bottomline these two will always be linked to each other and thus will always be compared......

[graywolf624]

They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared.....
Quite the contrary. In GMs line you have the turbo or gt2 = the ZR1. The GT3= the ZO6. The base = the base. This ACR is way more comparable to the Z06 not the ZR1. For that same reason you dont see the gt2 compared to the z06, only the gt3. If you recall clarkson said the z06 was too much of a track car, theres a common thread their somewhere.

[RC45]

Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45:laugh: But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol:mrgreen:...

Anyway SRT themselves when asked about the ZR1 responded that they aint worried and had something for it...Tah dah the ACR.....Bottomline is these cars will be pitted against each other by the mags regardless of whatever you or I feel is right.....They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared.....

As for they guy looking up in the dictionary for King of the hill LOL.....Dont overthink things....King of the hill has always been about performance with these two...Not cup holders, or interior fit an finish or how hedonistically they excel......Performance period....The C6 Z06 took that title convincingly as it outperformed the Viper...Now the 08 Viper took the title back...Oh but wait...They shouldnt be compared right??? No one told the masses or the magazines....bottomline these two will always be linked to each other and thus will always be compared......

Wrong - they wont be compared "by magazines" - because the cars will not be a performance match in a street test - the ACR would lose thereby making for bad press for Dodge - there is no point in comparing the 2.

None.

Period.

And again you have proven you are nothing but a troll as you are unale to debate the facts - you have none to present.

You refuse to debate facts and just come to MW to spew tripe and cause trouble.

Post reported as "troll" - until such time as you can actually have a sensible debate it would probably be best if you could be banned from posting in the US car forums.

Luck for you no such option exists

I wonder if you troll in person?

[nthfinity]

Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45:laugh: But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol:mrgreen:...


Don't want to respond to him w/out responding to what he said, that is useless trolling. You have opinions we may agree and disagree on; lets not just stir the pot, and name call. Thanks :)

[SnakeBitten]

Don't want to respond to him w/out responding to what he said, that is useless trolling. You have opinions we may agree and disagree on; lets not just stir the pot, and name call. Thanks :)

So wait let me get this straight...He basically starts name calling by stating that Im stupid with the "brain at room temperature" comment then calls me a "fanboy" because my viewpoint is different than his but Im stirring the pot, name calling, the bad guy and a troll...LMAO....And now he states I should be banned becasue I dont want to waste my time arguing with him??....You guys are really funny......Look ban me if you want I could careless I assure you:-) This is basically the way he moderated in the past..Agree with me or else...I dont care to get into an ignorant discussion with RC45 because thats where it always goes in my experience with him...You call it trolling I call it not wasting my time with someone that cant understand a simple thing like a Vette/Viper comparo or has the ability to abstain for condesending rebuttals...If he gets at me on that level I will respond in kind....Ive got nothing against you Nthinfinity but try to be fair...Since you asked Ill respond...He can take it however he wants:mrgreen:

Think about it folks...They have only been going toe to toe, being compared from every major magazine all around the world since the Vipers inception..I can show magazine article after article with Vette/Viper yet acccording to RC45 it wont happen with the 08 ACR vs ZR1:laugh:...Not to mention the Gen II ACR got compared to the Z06/Porsche/Mustang etc....Cars of similar performance will always be compared regardless of if they are in the same class or not....Performance is performance...This is the ultimate Vette vs the ultimate Viper...Showdown inevitable regardless of class-ism :-)..

It just doesnt make sence to argue with someone that doesnt see the regular Viper is bare bones street car but still gets compared to Porsches/Z06 etc.....The ACR is still a STREET car...More of a street car than the GT3 as it doesnt come with a rollcage[Ive read the GT3 comes with a roll cage correct me if im wrong] It can have all the creature comforts of the regular Viper if the owners chooses...A simple look at old magazine will tell you who will win the overall title between the two...The Vette duh...Or any car compared to the Viper...the Mustang GT500 won against the Viper eventhought it got crushed in performance.....The Subjective will always go to the Vette but they will be compared regardless of what RC feels...Some of you should think for yourselves...There is much history that tells you they will be compared in the magazines.....To quote RC "anyone with a brain thats room temperature can see that".....;-)

[graywolf624]

Not to mention the Gen II ACR got compared to the Z06/Porsche/Mustang etc
Your so close but just not quite there.
The ACR will be compared to the Z06.. And it will better the Z06. IT wont be compared to the ZR1 for one reason.. The same reason without testing the car you know the ACR will be the better track car.. Because GM has a completely different target audience. I will bet there will be a comparo.. but I also will bet it will spell out in bold letters at the begining that they are two completely different types of cars so your decision isnt which is better.

The reality is.. if this was a fanboy arguement it would be excuses after the fact when the ZR1 loses. Since we are talking about it before it even happens that means we are all admiting it isnt designed to win that type of battle... Otherwise the fanboy would say the viper would get its ass beat.... Design versus excuse... JMHO

You call it trolling I call it not wasting my time with someone that cant understand a simple thing like a Vette/Viper comparo or has the ability to abstain for condesending rebuttals...If he gets at me on that level I will respond in kind....
I have no dog in this thing here but I do feel the need to comment. Neither of you are being called out for mudslinging. If Issac called you out for slinging names and not RC45 Id actually side with you. However this is not what was sighted. What was cited is that you openly admited to not reading Pauls response.

People get hot in arguements.. sometimes they name call. This place has a rather high tolerance for that (regardless of you or I's opinion on that). It does not have a high tolerance for doing it without even reading the other persons post. Its a suttle nuance but one you should pick up on. Stick around.. I may not agree with you, but youve entertained me through this boring holiday.

[SnakeBitten]

Your so close but just not quite there.
The ACR will be compared to the Z06.. And it will better the Z06. IT wont be compared to the ZR1 for one reason.. The same reason without testing the car you know the ACR will be the better track car.. [b]Because GM has a completely different target audience. I will bet there will be a comparo.. but I also will bet it will spell out in bold letters at the begining that they are two completely different types of cars so your decision isnt which is better.

I appreciate the effort to mediate...We are all on the same page with this aspect..I dont think you a guys are getting me...The Z06 is also a different target audience than the regular Viper since day one..But yet they are constantly compared though they have different missions...Why??Performance...Any cars with similar performance will be compared to each other..Its just the way it is....That is all Im saying...It will happen dispite some saying it wont...

Most articles between these two make that stipulation very evident yet the comparison is made because they offer similar performance period but go about it different ways. I cant go along with the ACR is aimed at the Z06 because that is not what Dodge made it for..Why would they? The 08 already has eclipsed the Z06 performance as most of the recent tests have shown...The 08 was the responce to the Z06..For anyone to think otherwise boggles my mind...Teh ACR was Dodges responce to the ZR1 as SRT stated on Viperforums...It doesnt matter if GM or whoever thinks the ACR is aimed at....They are different no one disputes that but they are both still streetcars with potentially similar performance numbers so they will be compared even if there is a caveat in the article about class etc..Really dont know why that is so hard to digest..


The reality is.. if this was a fanboy arguement it would be excuses after the fact when the ZR1 loses. Since we are talking about it before it even happens that means we are all admiting it isnt designed to win that type of battle... Otherwise the fanboy would say the viper would get its ass beat.... Design versus excuse... JMHO

Im not the one that used "fanboy" first or got at anyone first... ..I basically flipped his argument to show him with his logic hes a fanboy too..I didnt get at anyone in this thread until I was gotten at..Im well aware of how things go with RC45 and buddies[refering to the past]...Im not new here and have had a nice little fight or two with him and his fans before...So my choice to not respond was to avoid the nonsense that has ensued as he started bringing up his facts that had nothing to do with point I was trying to make.


I have no dog in this thing here but I do feel the need to comment. Neither of you are being called out for mudslinging. If Issac called you out for slinging names and not RC45 Id actually side with you. However this is not what was sighted. What was cited is that you openly admited to not reading Pauls response.

My responce was aimed at RC mostly as he called me names, wants to fight, said Im trolling, reported me lol[so kindergarten], and as usual flys way off the handle than the situation dictates...RC lives his life an internet fight at a time lol. Back in the day we had a few good ones lol..I could careless about internet fights nowadays. ..I usually avoid people that overact or show signs of unstability especially over such a trivial topic....As I said to Nthinfinity[Isaac?] Ive got no problem with him but to tell me Im trolling because I refused to get into a stupid fight, knowing who I m dealing with, is crazy..Fight or die lol..Is this Internet Fight Club? Thats how it came across to me. And then RC goes and tells on me causing Nth to come and scold me...LMAO

People get hot in arguements.. sometimes they name call. This place has a rather high tolerance for that (regardless of you or I's opinion on that). It does not have a high tolerance for doing it without even reading the other persons post. Its a suttle nuance but one you should pick up on. Stick around.. I may not agree with you, but youve entertained me through this boring holiday.

Well I guess Im no longer Jabbasworld/Motorworld material because Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...Im a carguy period..Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...


Ive got no problem with anyone else and Id soon forget this nonsense...I hold no grudges @ RC but I do remember how you get down :laugh: ..You are not going to get everyone to agree with you on everything bro..You cant impose your will on everyone by talking down to them, calling a moderator etc. Everyones got an opinion...

If I dont ever see a ZR1 vs ACR comparo Ill come back here make a post and say you were right....Until then sit back grab a beer and exchange ideas...Your pressure will go down and you might actually get someone to agree with you..Now you dont have to read this long azz post..I promise i wont report you as a troll. happy new year Jab er Motorworld:thumbup:

[HeilSvenska]

if by "one off" you mean nearly 4000 of them, then yeah, its "one off" (more produced then planned ZR-1 or ACR production BTW)

Yes, but it's not like Ford's ever going to make Ford GT Mk. II. :-P I meant to say that Chevrolet defined itself with the Corvette as Dodge hopes to do with the Viper. And they keep making new ones to have that on-going halo effect. It'd be great if Ford does that too, but it doesn't. :-(

If I dont ever see a ZR1 vs ACR comparo Ill come back here make a post and say you were right....Until then sit back grab a beer and exchange ideas...Your pressure will go down and you might actually get someone to agree with you..
Will you let this go? Even if some magazine does ZR1 vs ACR comparo, it's not like they're right in doing it. I mean, Motor Trend's a popular magazine (I don't know why) but it doesn't mean that it's right, i mean, heck, they've been giving COTY titles to Civics and Camrys.

And you're trying to argue with RC. You should know by now that it's pointless. Not that he's just unstoppable, you should also know that he's often right. :-P

[RC45]

And then RC goes and tells on me causing Nth to come and scold me...LMAO
I didnt need to report anything - mods read the posts.


Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...

You're just pissed because your "opinion" might be flawed - you haven't changed since your first posts on JW - you state something then argue about it till the cars run dry - even when you are mistaken :) I simply provided you with some facts you may have overlooked - like say the real target audience of each car or the realpower delivery or each car etc ;)

I am not interested in "changing your opinion" - but if you make a "statement of fact" don't expect it to go unchallanged either :)

Teh ACR was Dodges responce to the ZR1 as SRT stated on Viperforums...It doesnt matter if GM or whoever thinks the ACR is aimed at....

Then the folks at SRT are as dumb if not dumber than the folks at ViperForums for being sucked into the farce.

Why would Dodge spend all the effort and money and time to "counter a car" that it will never meet in competition?

The ACR - American Club Racer - is a "street legal" competition ready car - the ZR1 is a "street legal" street car. Nothing more.

If Dodge wanted to tale on the ZR1 as the ZR1, then they would have put a blower on the V10 and made 720bhp stock.


They are different no one disputes that but they are both still streetcars with potentially similar performance numbers so they will be compared even if there is a caveat in the article about class etc..Really dont know why that is so hard to digest..
So - according to your logic then, an article that compares the Ferraroi Enzo to the Posche GT2 is a legitimate one - even with a caveat?

If Porsche never produced the CGT, then there would still be no grounds for the comparison.

BTW - how will the ACR and ZR1 be similar in performance? Sure they both go faster than 8mph and stop in less than 1000ft - but thats about it.

They ar enot going to have similar 1/4 mile times, or similar 0-100 times of even similar 0-200mph times.. or similar top speeds or even similar handling characterisitics.

They will only have similar prices - and even that is debatable.

The only ones who will be 'comparing" the ACR and the ZR1 will be pre-pubescent fan-boys, the motor journos who write articles for them - and Viper lovers :)

And you're trying to argue with RC. You should know by now that it's pointless. Not that he's just unstoppable, you should also know that he's often right. :-P

The scariest thing is though, its in the few exchanges where I have been right that people get the most defensive and "offended" ;) - the many times I was wrong and had just been taking the antagonistic "devil's advocate view (by request I might add)" people rolled over and walked...

So that has to be worth something at least :)

[graywolf624]

Well I guess Im no longer Jabbasworld/Motorworld material because Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...Im a carguy period..Dont care for trivial fights..Ive got nothing to prove...If Im wrong about something i dotn mind being told so..But if you going to get at me condesendingly Im going to attempt to ignore you now...If you push me Ill respond in kind as Im sure RC knows from our last few battles...
If you don't want to waste your time then just drop the discussion. Instead you interjected again and made it seem directly confrontational but ignoring the actual topic. Sometimes its better to just let things go. As you said its just the internet.. Its not like someone wins an award for last word on the internet.

RC has a very confrontational devils advocate style, sometimes that can be viewed in a bad light. If your viewing it in a bad light.. walk to the next topic and let it go.

[nthfinity]

Im not going to waste my time with someone like RC45 that cant have a "debate" as he calls it, without resorting to childish, ignorant tactics...



I asked you to drop it, why didn't you?

[RC45]

I guess my responses to this thread somehow have been confused by some lurkers to that I like or love the ZR1 and I somehow must therefore hate the Viper (ACR or not) because I am in love with the Vette.

This is rather odd, as I actually specifically said a number of times that I dont like the ZR1.

The primary point of discussion was whether the ZR1 and ACR would/should/could be compared as class partners, not which was was "better" than the other - or which one would win...

Each is the pinacle car in their own right - of their own class... having witnessed many Vipers first hand, shared track space and time wth them, won and lost roll ons against them and even having driven a few - why would I think any differently?

Why the confusion? Why the immidiate assumption that the moment I comment about a Corvette it must be a "Corvette is best the rest are rubbish" statement - even though it never is.

[nthfinity]

TBH, the ZR1 could've been a lot more then what it is... I don't see Cerberus making the Viper after the SRT10 is done, The ACR is Icing on the cake of a nice history of a US production world beating sports car. Corvette is over a 1/2 century old, and sales are still strong. Ford is building a new "fast car" likely seen in 2012 on the street.

The bar is set incredibly high, let us hope that legislation doesn't change the scene so the manufacturers can reach the bar ;)

[RC45]

TBH, the ZR1 could've been a lot more then what it is... I don't see Cerberus making the Viper after the SRT10 is done, The ACR is Icing on the cake of a nice history of a US production world beating sports car. Corvette is over a 1/2 century old, and sales are still strong. Ford is building a new &quot;fast car&quot; likely seen in 2012 on the street.

The bar is set incredibly high, let us hope that legislation doesn't change the scene so the manufacturers can reach the bar ;)

Cerberus have already killed off the internal Viper racing program and that means bubkas in the way of privateer support for the ACR's and Competition Coupes - right?So maybe the death of the Viper is not close behind - that will be a shame.