View Full Version : China making fake Ferraris
bmagni
04-30-2006, 10:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXq_r7VeWDo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2F
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C7622/
nthfinity
04-30-2006, 10:27 PM
soooooo; where are the pictures for the scruteneering eye?
I guess it was a p3/4 that was cloned for 10,000?
Fake Ferrari from China
After watch, perfume, bag and cloths, China reproduces 3 million dollars of Ferrari. EU Commission Vice President Frattini accused China with a humor and said "There are only six 330 P4 model Ferrari in the world. This is the seventh one".
Chinese cloned even 'Ferrari'
The production of fake products of famous brand's bags, watches and blue jeans has been a big problem that EU struggles. However this latest "clone product" even astounds EU: Ferrari 330 P4 that there are only six of them in the world.
According to the news announced yesterday, there is a clone Ferrari in China. Giving a press conference, EU Commission Vice President Franco Frattini, showing the picture of the clone Ferrari that is taken in a shanty district, said "There are only six of Ferrari 330 P4 made in 1967. And this is the seventh one".
http://english.sabah.com.tr/75B9BCC5625949428DE7BFC0B64D4B62.html
And what model is it they have cloned? :P
bmagni
04-30-2006, 10:40 PM
And what model is it they have cloned? :P
looks like a 330 P3/4 or a 412 P
^^then it's not exactly a big counterfeiting operation is it .. ;)
I mean all the chassis are accounted for - the cars are known.. and in the worst case it could a be really clever kit car that has the Ferrari badge.
What a lot of noise about nothing :P ;)
nthfinity
04-30-2006, 10:45 PM
^^then it's not exactly a big counterfeiting operation is it .. ;)
I mean all the chassis are accounted for - the cars are known.. and in the worst case it could a be really clever kit car that has the Ferrari badge.
What a lot of noise about nothing :P ;)
its going to devalue those 6 'real' p3/4's :P :wink:
bmagni
04-30-2006, 10:46 PM
maybe theyre just starting to do so. so its starting to be considered, kits or replicas haven't been prosecuted.
arent there fake MBs and BMWs already ?
maybe theyre just starting to do so. so its starting to be considered, kits or replicas haven't been prosecuted.
arent there fake MBs and BMWs already ?
Actually - Ferrari has gone after kit makers before.. in fact they prevented Koenig and a couple other people from placing Ferrario badges on their fully modded cars.
Why Ferrari is so afraid of people "faking" them is beyond bizarre.. it's not like some Chinese dudes could produce 5,000 fake F430's and corner the world Ferrari market or something.
bmagni
04-30-2006, 10:57 PM
true, the point is that they don't want a Ferrari bagde and a copy of their model being sold and not getting a comission and if it comes from China its worse, fake Ferraris at a 1 billion people country where 99.9% can't afford a real one...
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6452/fake9sf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^^ But the point is they are worried about fakes coming inot the EU.. not being sold in China.. ;)
See, millions of people cannot afford a Hugo Boss item... so Hugo Boss would get NO MONEY from those people, they are just buying a fake Hugo Boss item for the fun of it.. ;)
The people who can afford it want the real deal and will pay for it.
:P
DeMoN
05-01-2006, 02:08 AM
Sure they wouldnt buy an original hugo boss, which makes buying fake that much idiotic. Everyone would know its fake.
Sure they wouldnt buy an original hugo boss, which makes buying fake that much idiotic. Everyone would know its fake.
..you don't get it... back in China those folks buying the fake goods cannot afford the real thing anyway... so no loss for the company or the posers who buy the real stuff to show off their prowess and wealth :P
nejcdolinsek
05-01-2006, 03:45 AM
Sure they wouldnt buy an original hugo boss, which makes buying fake that much idiotic. Everyone would know its fake.
..you don't get it... back in China those folks buying the fake goods cannot afford the real thing anyway... so no loss for the company or the posers who buy the real stuff to show off their prowess and wealth :P
Well, then NO high-end company would be worried about someone counterfiting their products. It may cause no economic to the company per se, but it certainly does damage their brand image.
Secondly, how would you feel if someone was ripping off your creation for which you put in countless hours of work and expertise?
Now if you'll excuse me: AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AH
The Chinese are at it again!!! AHAHHAHAHAHA
P.S.: Your numerous roles of playing devils advocate made me think: you'd make a great lawyer. I think we have the new Johnny Cochran in 'da house :P :wink:
Shinigami
05-01-2006, 06:56 AM
The chinese economy is picking up, and sooner or later, those people WILL be able to pay for the "real deal".
The problem with the fakes, is that whilst they are often sold in china, many of them also find their way into Europe and the states. A recent article on counterfeited NEC items shows that a very large portion of the merchandise has been moving out of the country.
Personally, I don't like the idea of someone copying something you have made and perfected...
ARMAN
05-01-2006, 08:23 AM
It is probably from the cheap plastic and nylon anyway and fall apart within 3 days :mrgreen: I say - Ferrari SUE THOSE IDIOTS! :twisted:
dutchmasterflex
05-01-2006, 10:41 AM
hahaha.. will the chinese ever stop counterfeiting?
I don't think this is the first time they've counterfitted a car. A while back I remember hearing of a Chinese luxury saloon, that looked like a Merc from the front and like a BMW from the back.
No - it turned out that was just a new Audi....
The chinese economy is picking up, and sooner or later, those people WILL be able to pay for the "real deal".
And because they were weened on the fake stuff they will know what the real stuff is and aspire to it even more.
Fake items actually improve brand image and increase sales for brand name companies.
The problem with the fakes, is that whilst they are often sold in china, many of them also find their way into Europe and the states. A recent article on counterfeited NEC items shows that a very large portion of the merchandise has been moving out of the country.
Well - then don't buy your NEC items from street vendors.. problem solved ;)
If large retailers buy fake items and claim they are real, then the retailer is commiting the crime, not the counterfeiter.
Personally, I don't like the idea of someone copying something you have made and perfected...
Why not?
All these brands aim at a different demographic and would never get the sale anyway - they should be glad that the fake brands spread product awareness and create a way for people to begin to sample the items...
The people who can afford not to buy the real stuff now, will later buy the real stuff as and when they can afford it, so the brand companies actually get increased market share without spending more advertising money.
Seems like a win win scenario to me. :)
Much ado abut nothing.
Counterfeit music and software is an actual duplicate of the real deal - counterfeit cloths are not. Big difference... duplicating electronic images is in a different league totally. Once youhave the "copied" appliaciotn you never need buy the real thing because the copy is the real thing - but the "fake" LeCoste shirt is a fake, and when you can afford to pose in a real LeCoste, you will.. :P ;)
I doubt any brand name consumer company could prove actual lost revenues from cunterfeiting - they maysay they have lost future sales, but we all know it's bull - because they would never drop their prices low enough to win the counterfeit sale anyway.
Shinigami
05-01-2006, 11:20 AM
It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else.
I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.
I'm not of the school of thought where "piracy" increases awareness of a brand or product. It happens in some circles and for some products, but it's an exception rather then a rule.
In regards to the NEC products, it appears that the products went on sale in major retail outlets due to very specific cirumstances where the Chinese pirates emulated the entire company. Once you go this far, it's not all that difficult get a contract signed by a retailer (especially smaller ones who may not be able to go through the entire paperwork needed to verify the authenticity of a product) and then ship your products to the store.
The problem is that humans inherently get used to a particular taste, and in this case, it is a case of price. If something was affordable because it wasn't the real deal, it will most likely mean that the person will continue to purchase the pirated products because they get more for their money. So yes, it's arguable that the original company will still not be making any extra cash since the product would never have sold in the first place. But practice breeds behaviour, and it begins with one, and multiplies to millions.
I don't know what it is that you do or make for a living, but I work in the pharmaceutical business now, and if other companies make pirated generics, it cuts into our profits. Money which we could use to not only improve our existing products, but develop new and safer ones. Remember, it's not just about making money and profits. Companies use the revenues to "improve" themselves. This is what you seem to be lacking in your argument (though I have no doubt you'll have something to say about that... as would I. After all, how much can a La Coste shirt be "improved", hehe).
Just my two cents.
nthfinity
05-01-2006, 11:36 AM
It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else.
I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.
then look at what the people over at Valve did (Half life) after the huge Counter Strike boom, Valve ended up detecting real s/n's vs. false ones... so if you wanted to continue playing CS, you had to have a legit s/n... then people went out and bought gobs of half life just to play thier already year+ old game they were addicted to...
Serious Sam was fun, but got old real fast... definately an innovative graphics engine.
UT just wasn't that fun to me... but huge to others...
Dues Ex... well, i tried to play it; but it wouldn't launch properly, so i took it back.... but from what people told me, it was good.
DeMoN
05-01-2006, 11:48 AM
Sure they wouldnt buy an original hugo boss, which makes buying fake that much idiotic. Everyone would know its fake.
..you don't get it... back in China those folks buying the fake goods cannot afford the real thing anyway... so no loss for the company or the posers who buy the real stuff to show off their prowess and wealth :P
Sure, no loss, but do you think Hugo Boss wont give a crap knowing people are using thier name on stuff? They'd think that it would "damage" their name.
It's not always a win win situation. Some consumer goods are exactly that. You consume them, they go to waste, and you move on. That's money which could have been spent on something else.
Sorry I do not agree.
If you do not have the means to buy some high end branded product, then the money would not have been spent on the high end branded product - period.
If you are talking about cheap low grade products, then it is a wake up call to the actual branded manufacturer - lower you prices, there is an equivalent competitr tea/coffee/soap/gum/plastic cup out there - set your price accordingly or you will lose busimess to the cheap chinese.. ;)
I've worked for a few video game companies, and I had first had experience of people pirating games I worked on (Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament). Rarely did these people end up buying the real deal. They did however enjoy playing the games for a long, long time.
I specifically answered the quesiton above - oh, and regarding Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament, the titles were so freaking buggy out of the box, no wonder no-one wanted to pay for the first revisions ;)
I'm not of the school of thought where "piracy" increases awareness of a brand or product. It happens in some circles and for some products, but it's an exception rather then a rule.
Folks in China earning $400/year are not about to jump at your expensive imported product... in fact they may not even be aware of your brand other than through popular culture... buying a local fake is not a sale you as the brand owner have lost. ;)
In regards to the NEC products, it appears that the products went on sale in major retail outlets due to very specific cirumstances where the Chinese pirates emulated the entire company.
Sure.. :roll: They emulated phone numbers, websites and fax numbers, they emulated reps and distribution channels.. :roll:
What really happened is the retailer saw prices too good to believe and knew there was 100% or more in profit to be made. They are also criminals in this case. :)
Once you go this far, it's not all that difficult get a contract signed by a retailer (especially smaller ones who may not be able to go through the entire paperwork needed to verify the authenticity of a product) and then ship your products to the store.
Actually - the truth is, the smaller the retailer the HIGHER the price they would more likely have to pay to get the product - so when they see low prices they KNOW they are buying pirate equipment - and should be prosecuted as the criminals they are - trying to make huge money by knowingly importing and selling fake pirate equipment alongside the real stuff.
I am sorry, there are no excuses for "accidently finding the deal of a life time"... ;) That's called smuggling - it's what crooks, gangsters and criminals do :P
The problem is that humans inherently get used to a particular taste, and in this case, it is a case of price. If something was affordable because it wasn't the real deal, it will most likely mean that the person will continue to purchase the pirated products because they get more for their money.
Sure, and why not - in those far away markets where the folks make less money per year than the CD player/DVD nav in your car ;) -- they would never be able to afford the real deal - so wehats the problem? ;)
BTW - I thought China was Europes buddy all this time.. ;) What happened - honeymoon oevr already? ;)
So yes, it's arguable that the original company will still not be making any extra cash since the product would never have sold in the first place. But practice breeds behaviour, and it begins with one, and multiplies to millions.
If you want to win that "poor" market, reduce your price to compete ;)
I don't know what it is that you do or make for a living, but I work in the pharmaceutical business now, and if other companies make pirated generics, it cuts into our profits.
Boohoo - a poor drug company gets beaten at their won game because someoen made a generic chemical compound that does the same thign for less.. :P ;)
Money which we could use to not only improve our existing products, but develop new and safer ones.
Wow - that's big of you guys - why not just sell 100x more of the same old stuff.. ?
Remember, it's not just about making money and profits.
Yes it is - that's all it is about. You guys make drugs.. if there was more money in making chemical weapons you would be making those instead... ;)
Companies use the revenues to "improve" themselves.
And maybe that's the problem.. the Chinese seem to be able to make billions not improving anythig, but rather just remaking others items cheaper... ;)
This is what you seem to be lacking in your argument (though I have no doubt you'll have something to say about that... as would I. After all, how much can a La Coste shirt be "improved", hehe).
Well - LeCoste (the fake) would need no improvement - they will just copy this years fashion next year... ;) :P
Just my two cents.
See - you sell yourself short - no doubt because the Chinese already offer free advice... that's cheaper than yours by 2c.. ;)
nejcdolinsek
05-01-2006, 12:34 PM
Americans have been been fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.
HAHA :lol:
redbaron
05-01-2006, 12:47 PM
This chinese guy must have had some taste, normally those chinese only make bad copies of Chevrolet Matiz and Opel Frontera.....
Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.
Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades.
At least Ferrari and Corvette don't make the "Top Ten must have Gay Car list".. like the Audi TT does.
ferrari550
05-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.
Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades.
At least Ferrari and Corvette don't make the "Top Ten must have Gay Car list".. like the Audi TT does.
HAHA
they cloned everything
simple
:(
Americans have been making fake Ferraris for YEARS! they're called Corvettes. lol.
Apparently they are the real deal - what with Ferrari buying parts from GM for decades.
.
sorry man...but Ferrari doesn't give a shit about your plastic kit car replica ;)
buying parts from suppliers isn't the same as buying from the company. LOL
You forgot to reply to the "Top Ten Gay car" poll...
dutchmasterflex
05-02-2006, 10:51 AM
HAHAHAHA.. :lol:
sigh. does anybody else find this slight ridiculous? i mean ther are TONS of kit cars out there and the EU isnt calling foul on them!
There seems to be a lot of anti-chinese sentiment in some recent threads, and the only reason i can think for that being the case is that china is stealing everybody's money! yes, i do concede that there is A LOT of copyright infringement etc, but isnt most of the overseas money that is flowing into china from 'developed countries' manufacturers in a bid to lower their costs and fatten up their bottom line?!
not trying to start shit, but just trying to present a little balance to the argument
Shinigami
05-02-2006, 11:41 AM
Sorry I do not agree.
We'll, let's agree to disagree then.
oh, and regarding Serious Sam, Deus Ex and Unreal Tournament, the titles were so freaking buggy out of the box, no wonder no-one wanted to pay for the first revisions ;)
Some people experienced problems, others didn't. Video games are quite a complicated business, but I don't expect you to know the inner workings of their scope. I also give you -5 for the intended jab at me and the work I've done.
Sure.. :roll: They emulated phone numbers, websites and fax numbers, they emulated reps and distribution channels.. :roll:
What really happened is the retailer saw prices too good to believe and knew there was 100% or more in profit to be made. They are also criminals in this case. :)
Did you read the article about the NEC piracy scandal? It seems like the Chinese pirates did exactly that. They emulated phone numbers, reps, distribution channels, entire warehouses, etc...
Sure, and why not - in those far away markets where the folks make less money per year than the CD player/DVD nav in your car ;) -- they would never be able to afford the real deal - so wehats the problem? ;)
I already explained this before. The average Chinese salary is going up. It won't be too long before they can afford the real deal, but why should they, when they can continue to buy fakes.
You believe this is not a problem, I however think in the long term this will have some economic disturbance. I guess your degree in Economics is higher then mine then.
BTW - I thought China was Europes buddy all this time.. ;) What happened - honeymoon oevr already? ;)
You really like to hear yourself talk. Don't you.
Boohoo - a poor drug company gets beaten at their won game because someoen made a generic chemical compound that does the same thign for less.. :P ;)
Doesn't quite work that way.
First of all the "poor" drug business I work in, is not all that poor. The company I work for is number 1 in D-class drugs. We also make generics of our own products for those markets that cannot pay for the higher priced "originals" which by now are a known product on American and European markets. This is done in order to counteract illicit business and combat some forms of piracy, and in order to not lose market share.
Wow - that's big of you guys - why not just sell 100x more of the same old stuff.. ?
Shows you really have no clue about this business. You can only sell so much of class-D drugs.
The company I work for may be number one, but we only own about 5% of the market. It is very cut-throat and extremely difficult to take over market share. Our drugs are prescription medicaments, you cannot just sell 100x more on a whim. You can sell as much as a doctor is able to prescribe if the cmplication is there and has to be treated.
This is not the Viagra market...
Remember, it's not just about making money and profits.
Yes it is - that's all it is about. You guys make drugs.. if there was more money in making chemical weapons you would be making those instead... ;)
It's so nice to see you dissect and distort ones messages so that it helps to demean their post. If you had kept my message intact with the one found below, the meaning would be very different.
Companies use the revenues to "improve" themselves.
And maybe that's the problem.. the Chinese seem to be able to make billions not improving anythig, but rather just remaking others items cheaper... ;)
Which shows how clueless you really are.
Company in some sectors spent millions upon millions on R&D, because it is the only way they are able to stay in business.
The company I work for spends hundreds of millions on developing new laser techniques for treating skin cancer. The molecules used to treat other skin diseases has cost this company millions and millions of dollars. The products are being done in order to cure humans. If the Chinese make generics, the market is being hurt because a) the company that invented the product is not bringing in dividends on the products it invented, and b) therefore cannot continue to research new, safer and ultimately more effective products.
Pirating may work very well for some products, but in the drug business, it's hurting the consumer on an all new scale. If you prefer to consume Chinese generics for your disease, please do so. Don't come crying home when the side effects hit you hard (and some side effects indeed do... who remembers the "fake milk" a Chinese company was selling for mothers with babies? oooops... seems like a few died because it wasn't milk to begin with).
Just my two cents.
See - you sell yourself short - no doubt because the Chinese already offer free advice... that's cheaper than yours by 2c.. ;)
Your advice isn't even worth that of the Chinese ;)
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