For the Saleen haters

[TNT]

From the curretn Car & Driver

SALEEN S7 TWIN TURBO
Vehicle type: mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 2-passenger, 2-door coupe
Price as tested: $589,950
Price and option breakdown: base Saleen S7 Twin Turbo (includes $5000 freight), $585,000; polished wheels, $4950
Major standard accessories: power windows and locks, remote locking, A/C, tilting and telescoping steering wheel
Sound system: Kenwood XXV-05V AM-FM radio/CD-DVD player, 2 speakers

ENGINE
Type: twin-turbocharged V-8, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 4.12 x 4.00 in, 104.6 x 101.6mm
Displacement: 427 cu in, 6991cc
Compression ratio: 10.8:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Turbochargers: Garrett GT35R
Maximum boost pressure: 6.0 psi
Valve gear: pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder
Power (SAE net): 750 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 700 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm

DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Final-drive ratio: 3.20:1, limited slip
Gear, Ratio, Mph/1000 rpm, Speed in gears
I, 2.86, 8.8, 57 mph (6500 rpm)
II, 1.61, 15.6, 102 mph (6500 rpm)
III, 1.14, 22.1, 144 mph (6500 rpm)
IV, 0.96, 26.2, 170 mph (6500 rpm)
V, 0.81, 31.1, 202 mph (6500 rpm)
VI, 0.64, 39.3, 248 mph (6300 rpm)

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 106.3 in
Track, front/rear: 68.8/67.3 in
Length/width/height: 188.0/78.4/41.1 in
Ground clearance: 4.0 in
Curb weight: 2968 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 45.0/55.0%
Curb weight per horsepower: 4.0 lb
Fuel capacity: 19.0 gal

CHASSIS/BODY
Type: steel-tube space frame reinforced with aluminum-honeycomb panels
Body material: carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic and aluminum honeycomb

INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 47 cu ft
luggage: 5 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: none
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts

SUSPENSION
Front: ind, unequal-length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: ind, unequal-length control arms with a toe-control link, coil springs, anti-roll bar

STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with hydraulic power assist
Turns lock-to-lock: 2.0
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 44.3 ft

BRAKES
Type: hydraulic
Front: 15.0 x 1.3-in vented, grooved disc
Rear: 14.0 x 1.3-in vented, grooved disc

WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size: F: 9.5 x 19 in, R: 12.0 x 20 in
Wheel type: forged aluminum
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport PS2; F: 275/35ZR-19 100Y, R: 335/30ZR-20 104Y
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 32/32 psi
Spare: none

C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION: Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 1.5
40 mph: 2.2
50 mph: 2.9
60 mph: 3.4
70 mph: 3.9
80 mph: 4.7
90 mph: 5.4
100 mph: 6.2
110 mph: 7.0
120 mph: 8.4
130 mph: 9.5
140 mph: 10.9
150 mph: 13.6
160 mph: 15.6
Street start, 5–60 mph: 3.5
Top-gear acceleration, 30–50 mph: 5.7
50–70 mph: 5.4
Standing ¼-mile: 10.9 sec @ 140 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr’s claim): 248 mph

BRAKING
70–0 mph @ impending lockup: 157 ft
Modulation: poor fair good excellent
Front-rear balance: poor fair good

HANDLING
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 1.04 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

PROJECTED FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 9 mpg
EPA highway driving: 15 mpg

INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle: 77 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 96 dBA
70-mph cruising: 86 dBA

[Shinigami]

Impressive figures, too bad it doesn't look like a "hot" supercar... hmmm :?

[5vz-fe]

I'll take a CGT over that anyday :wink:

Instead of quoting numbers, wouldn't it be better to link the review??
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=10769

[RC45]

ENGINE
Type: twin-turbocharged V-8, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 4.12 x 4.00 in, 104.6 x 101.6mm
Displacement: 427 cu in, 6991cc
Compression ratio: 10.8:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Turbochargers: Garrett GT35R
Maximum boost pressure: 6.0 psi
Valve gear: pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder
Power (SAE net): 750 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 700 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm


There you have it... the heart of the beast is what many folks are running in their C5 Z06's... and pretty soon C6 Z's... ;)

Turns out pushrods are not the tool of the devil after all ... ;)

[TNT]

^^^ well i am surprised that you didn't bash this RC45 ;) But i put up numbers only b/c most people run their mouths about what is the fastest supercar blah blah. So this is more or less here for furture debates. :D

[T-Bird]

And Nthfinity can back me up on this that this is the slower version of the TT-S7 the guy at NAIAS confirmed the 1000+hp version.

[RC45]

^^^ well i am surprised that you didn't bash this RC45 ;) But i put up numbers only b/c most people run their mouths about what is the fastest supercar blah blah. So this is more or less here for furture debates. :D

Why would I bash a decent car? ;)

[bmagni]

Fast car ? yeah, but I don't like it and never will, and besides all its a twin turbo, bah, NA anyday...

[Daggernite]

Its pretty good bargain when you consider its price compared to the Bugatti veyron, and thats its top speed its almost just as good. Im not really a fan, but I gotta respect it.

[dangerously_cool]

And Nthfinity can back me up on this that this is the slower version of the TT-S7 the guy at NAIAS confirmed the 1000+hp version.

It's amazing what an intercooler or two and some more boost will do. I like this thing, though it is a little busy-looking.

[racer_f50]

the 0-60mph figure in the first post is actually slightly slower than the original S7's numbers from some magazine (which was 3.3 seconds). taking into account different drivers, conditions, etc... the times are roughly the same, so is it fair to assume the new power of the S7 is pretty useless in that lower speed ranges?

[RC45]

the 0-60mph figure in the first post is actually slightly slower than the original S7's numbers from some magazine (which was 3.3 seconds). taking into account different drivers, conditions, etc... the times are roughly the same, so is it fair to assume the new power of the S7 is pretty useless in that lower speed ranges?

60mph is not where races are won and lost.

[SFDMALEX]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

[nthfinity]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?
naw, your just a fan boy looser :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?
naw, your just a fan boy looser :wink:


my fuck its easy to get you yanks all pissy :lol:
'

Mission accomplished lol

Procced the circle jerk :wink:

[Minacious]

my fuck its easy to get you yanks all pissy :lol:


Mission accomplished lol



Until you can get me riled up, you can't claim that victory. :D

[RC45]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

[McLaren4eVa]

I'd prefer a Koegneggsegg CCR over this looks good and its fast but i'd prefer a european supercar.

[RC45]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.

Sometimes you provide some funny posts - but then others are just incorrect.. :)

Last I heard, the Veyron could not pull off 2 back to back laps at the Nurburgring - tyres and brakes would not last long enough.

A Skoda would beat a Veyron anywhere except the freeway. :)

[hemi_fan]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.

Say wha!? New S7 has 1000hp, on par with veyron... i've also read that it has 60% more downforce than the older version, allowing it to theoretically drive upsidedown in tunnels at high speed :twisted: They also lowered drag by 40%. The car also weighs over 1000lbs less than the veyron. My guess is they focused more on handling with this version, because its incredibly easy to increase the horsepower of this car. After all, the 1000hp version is only running 5.5psi of boost if im not mistaken.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/0,,1369-1372_1850946,00.html
Move over Bugatti Veyron - there's a new king of the road coming through - the Saleen S7 Twin Turbo, already clocked at 416 km/h, with more to come!

As for testing, i dont exactly consider Sebring and Le-Mans to be parking lots... With four Saleen customer teams entered in four series around the world, the Saleen S7R customer teams have set
29 poles and 27 fastest laps and won 19 out of 32 races this season -- quite possibly the finest inaugural race
season for any marque in history. that was it's first season... imagine the improvements.
http://www.7extrememotorsports.com/lemans/cars/gts-saleen-s7r.htm

[nthfinity]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.

Sometimes you provide some funny posts - but then others are just incorrect.. :)

Last I heard, the Veyron could not pull off 2 back to back laps at the Nurburgring - tyres and brakes would not last long enough.

A Skoda would beat a Veyron anywhere except the freeway. :)

last i heard the Saleen does practice laps around Wal Mart parking lots.....not exactly a test track is it? hehe.

the Saleen is basically a misfit in the Supercar world....the only reason you're defending it is because it's american ;)

if it was made in Italy, you'd trash it...and you know you would :D

The Veyron is just in a different world...not really worthy of comparing something like the Saleen to it...
so... something that is designed to be aero efficiant, and weights as much as the Bugatti's powertrain wont handle well?

now... I love the Bugatti; but the Saleen S7 is just on an entirely different playing field then the Bugatti... one that races successfully around the greatest tracks of the world... and Damn fast ;)

the Saleen is more like a CGT then a Bugatti... thats just common sense :!:

[McLaren4eVa]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.

Sometimes you provide some funny posts - but then others are just incorrect.. :)

Last I heard, the Veyron could not pull off 2 back to back laps at the Nurburgring - tyres and brakes would not last long enough.

A Skoda would beat a Veyron anywhere except the freeway. :)

Ok but what was the time and whre exactly did you get this info from because it runs on run flat tyres which can last 50 miles if puctured so i'm they'd last more than 2 laps around nurburgring. When you buy a saleen and bugatti and live with them both then come back and tell us which is better though i'm pretty sure you'd still choose the S7 not because its better but because it's not european. I cannot understand why volkswagen would spend millions and about 5 years to create a car which is only good in a straight line i'm sure thy thought about track performance.

[nthfinity]

mclaren-

the Veyron runs a 'fast' lap of NS as if its bing chased by a 6 banger BMW

and since when do run-flats mean that you can run 50 miles while cornering at supercar-speeds? that just means that you can go 50 miles with low stress on the tires w/out separating the sidwalls from the wheel/tread.

as for the Saleen... again; world-beating performance... and all people can say is its american = no good.

that is soooo incredibly thick... incredibly narrow minded, incredibly ignorant... etcl

[McLaren4eVa]

Nthfinity-

Ok fair enough if you have statisitical evidence from a primary source then the saleen is quicker and im not saying it aint no good i just prefer the veyron over it well and the ccr cgt slr enzo and zonda. Hey and im from the UK so the chances of me ever seeing an S7 are even slimmer than that of seeing a veyron.

[SFDMALEX]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

they veyron is the worst of the bunch period.

[SFDMALEX]

we have irrafutable proof from somebody in the industry that the Veyron runs (ran) a 'fast' lap of NS in 8:30 (or 8:34)... about the same as a Z4.



Yep, I drove one at Nordschleife. I was being beaten by Vettes, Vipers Saleens and Cadilacs :lol:

[SFDMALEX]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.


lol man..........This Saleen can and prolly does (run neck to neck) if not beat the Enzo.

And the Veyron is a slow peice of shit.

[hemi_fan]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.


lol man..........This Saleen can and prolly does (run neck to neck) if not beat the Enzo.

And the Veyron is a slow peice of shit.

Saleen's website has a number's comparison with many supercars including the Enzo. The saleen beats it in every category, even slalom with a 73mph slalom to the enzo's 72mph. Pulls 1.10g's instead of 1.01, and also much faster in a straight line.

[nthfinity]

Yep, I drove one at Nordschleife. I was being beaten by Vettes, Vipers Saleens and Cadilacs



wha? who? where? oh, you mean Cadillac's now i get it...

but it goes 250 mph :)

[SFDMALEX]

boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiii innnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

Is that the most expensive American car or what?

No - the Veyron is... I mean that's who it's made for?? Right? Big, heavy, fast in a straight line and can't turn :P :)

LOL. the Veyron would KILL a Saleen on a tight twisty track. The Saleen is useless in this world.


lol man..........This Saleen can and prolly does (run neck to neck) if not beat the Enzo.

And the Veyron is a slow peice of shit.

Saleen's website has a number's comparison with many supercars including the Enzo. The saleen beats it in every category, even slalom with a 73mph slalom to the enzo's 72mph. Pulls 1.10g's instead of 1.01, and also much faster in a straight line.

Well I dont really care what some figures say, they only make sense and come to use when on track ;) Anyway I dont doubt that it would beat the Enzo.


As RC once said, omg Im quoting RC :shock: :lol: the cars today or so damn close in their performance that its really hard to tell which is ultimatly faster.


But knowing that Saleen has pretty good performance in the racing ranks, quite a few of them in FIA GT, it should be a solid performer all around.

[SFDMALEX]

my fuck its easy to get you yanks all pissy :lol:


Mission accomplished lol



Until you can get me riled up, you can't claim that victory. :D

D00de your from California :lol:

You dont count :D

[RC45]

LOL @ Malex calling the Veyron "slow"

and to whomever said the Saleen generates more downforce, the Veyron generates more downforce than ANY other production car in HISTORY.

this is quite a funny debate though...carry on :lol:

250mph is slow... quite slow when you take the power and expense into account.

It is pathetically slow.

Each and every Twin Turbo Corvette to roll out of LPE's and other shops can run to 250mph... how do we know?

John Lingenfelter helped put the Callaway Sledgehammer into the 255mph range in 1987, with less power and a dirtier aero profile.

So, when placed into context, the veyron is slow.

Period.

:)

The Veyron serves one purpose, to allow the super wealthy to take the attention away from their small penii.. ;)

[SFDMALEX]

LOL @ Malex calling the Veyron "slow"

and to whomever said the Saleen generates more downforce, the Veyron generates more downforce than ANY other production car in HISTORY.

this is quite a funny debate though...carry on :lol:

Im calling it slow cause it is slow.


As was said before, there are sources which confirm how patheticaly slow this car is around the track. Nothing more needs to be said.



And as RC said every Porker to roll out of a tuners garage can do 250.

And quite a few yank tanks can do that aswel.

And all that withouht 5 million a piece.

[nthfinity]

LOL @ Malex calling the Veyron "slow"

and to whomever said the Saleen generates more downforce, the Veyron generates more downforce than ANY other production car in HISTORY.

this is quite a funny debate though...carry on :lol:
I dont thin i need to say how much i love the veyron...

but say something in context... the Veyron generates more downforce then any production car While Braking near V max

the Saleen doesn't need to shoot a brake flap up while braking/cornering/etc.... and has no active aero ;) the Enzo adopts a slightly modified aero profile above 180mph or so... but not to the extreme of a long-tail.

the CGT is a dirty, but beautiful profile up top... and not so differently with the Veyron... but with a greater emphasis on style then the CGT.

[RC45]

LOL.

to Malex and RC45:

the Veyron isn't "slow"...........it IS the fastest production car in the world...>EVER.

your little modded Sledgehammer Corvette was a ONE OFF car, and Callaway said they could reproduce the car in 1988 for $400,000 USD (in 1988 money, that equals ALOT more now)....with no tested reliability, no useful technology other than speed, and absolutely poo styling.....no thanks, it's useless as well....the 255mph was never confirmed as official either.

so i rest my case. the Veyron IS the fastest production car ever made........if you can't handle the truth....keep on making things up ;)

CHEERS!

:D

Nothing to make up at all.

Every TT Viper and Vette come with a 24,000 mile, 2 year warranty - and each one can reach 250mph.. as proven by a far less powerful car in 1987. :)

Did we mention that the 250mph Vettes and Vipers are built by small tuning companies not mulit-billion dollar multi-nationals.. and cost FAR less than the Veyron does.

Makes one wonder who actually has the ability to engineer something - and and who simply throws money at the design until eventually something pops out.

Again - the Veyron is just an excercise in excess and really does nothing for anyone else - YOU may be impressed by a million dollar car, but for a million bucks it better doe something unique..

Going 250mph in a unique specially prepped one-off situation is prety unique all right.

Has any private owner actually driven their production Veyron to 250mph on the street? I heard you need to have an entire bus load of german physicists in tow just to stop it overheating and going into half-power mode ;)

For the record, I would rather have a Koenig modded Ferrai over the Vagrant... the only reason I would accept a Blugnasty Vagrant as a gift would be to sell it .. ;)

[sentra_dude]

LOL.

to Malex and RC45:

the Veyron isn't "slow"...........it IS the fastest production car in the world...>EVER.

your little modded Sledgehammer Corvette was a ONE OFF car, and Callaway said they could reproduce the car in 1988 for $400,000 USD (in 1988 money, that equals ALOT more now)....with no tested reliability, no useful technology other than speed, and absolutely poo styling.....no thanks, it's useless as well....the 255mph was never confirmed as official either.

so i rest my case. the Veyron IS the fastest production car ever made........if you can't handle the truth....keep on making things up ;)

CHEERS!

:D


If it is 'the' fastest production car in the world, with all your 'sources', can you confirm or deny the ~8min 30sec Nordschleife time? That's pretty fucking slow if you ask me, especially when the car in question has 1001hp to work with. :roll:

In addition, what do your sources say about the car over-heating, we've never gotten an answer...yes or no, does the car overheat? And I don't mean when driving in Arizona going up a hill with the a/c blasting in the middle of summer, I mean after a couple of laps at a track...

Also, has there been an outside test of the Veyron's performance yet, so we know what the car is capable of, and not what VW says its capable of (not saying they are lying, I'd just like to see it tested by an independent party).

[nthfinity]

i am told that it doesn't have the same overheating issues.

[Daggernite]

I am really really enjoying this topic. I'm on Everso's side :P

[sentra_dude]

If it is 'the' fastest production car in the world, with all your 'sources', can you confirm or deny the ~8min 30sec Nordschleife time? That's pretty fucking slow if you ask me, especially when the car in question has 1001hp to work with. :roll:

In addition, what do your sources say about the car over-heating, we've never gotten an answer...yes or no, does the car overheat? And I don't mean when driving in Arizona going up a hill with the a/c blasting in the middle of summer, I mean after a couple of laps at a track...

Also, has there been an outside test of the Veyron's performance yet, so we know what the car is capable of, and not what VW says its capable of (not saying they are lying, I'd just like to see it tested by an independent party).

the nurburgring time is completely unofficial............it's all rubbish promoted by the people who are jealous of (i.e "dislike") the Veyron.

as for overheating....the EARLY testing versions had overheating issues...the production model definitely does NOT.

again....don't listen to the internet propaganda queens who just sit around recycling old facts from 2 years ago (which is highly the case with the Veyron)

the production Veyron has gone through huge amount of continuous testing with NO overheating. It has been tested in very warm climates (Africa, South America, Mexico) and it has been tested in very cold climates (Alaska) and in all cases, the car has shown huge reliability and no issues with engine management/overheating.....why do you think the Veyron was so delayed in the first place? it was to make SURE that there were no issues with its cooling system, brakes system, and tires.

as for the Veyron's top speed.....it has been confirmed by MANY people. VW have given the chance to many journalists and racing drivers to confirm the speed and it HAS BEEN by many US and UK publications, as well as other companies and people.....even the old Mac F1 couldn't be confirmed by many sources like the Veyron has.....this is THE supercar....no more pretenders allowed.

i find it amazing that you people still doubt it.

Dude, I could care less about the top speed, what I want to see is a test of the performance, you know, things that matter...

Such as: acceleration, braking distances, mpg, lateral g's, salmon speed, some track times...i.e. maybe Road & Track or Autocar test, or someone like them.

[nthfinity]

what was it JC said... if you give the Macca a head start to 100 mph, the veyron will be at 200 in less time then the F1 will... i think thats pretty close.

[gobs3z]

I hope by mpg you mean the worse it is the better. :wink: But i would also like to know slalom speeds. It seems that an actual test of the performance hasn't occured. We know everything about its straight line capabilities which are unmatched but all we know about its handling are "it handles amazingly well for its weight" words like that, but no specifics. I know when they do it'll still be amazing!!

[sentra_dude]

I hope by mpg you mean the worse it is the better. :wink: But i would also like to know slalom speeds. It seems that an actual test of the performance hasn't occured. We know everything about its straight line capabilities which are unmatched but all we know about its handling are "it handles amazingly well for its weight" words like that, but no specifics. I know when they do it'll still be amazing!!

Yeah, I'm not saying I doubt the numbers (that much ;))...I just want to see some specifics, and also, I want to see numbers not given to us by VW...

[RC45]

Has SportAuto even bothered to arrange a full test of the car?

And where are all these people who have CONFIRMED running the car to max V?

There have been many journos that hyave said it is fast, very fast (but then again, none of those same people have ever been in a TT Viper or a S7R etc so we cannot be sure how "very fast" they mean ;)) -- but anyway, where is the list of journos and testers that have ACTUALLY taken the Vagrant to 250+mph?

:)

And for a million dollars thats all you get? A big fat 2 tone coloured car?

[harryo2b]

So for a million bucks and some change is the McLaren F1 a bad deal as well?

[SnakeBitten]

Car & Driver was the first magazine to confirm VW's claims of 253mph (which by the way, WERE official observed at Nardo). Following which, CAR Magazine and Auto Motor And Sport also did the same......

the gearbox is space age...the aerodynamics are brilliant, the styling is superb....and the handling is very underrated. The braking is well beyond normal levels, and the engine is an absolute animal. yeah i think for the people who can spend the million.......there's no better way to go.

Veyron is no doubt a special car with phenominal capabilities but its not the best supercar out there....Its claim to fame is beating the Mclaren F1's top speed. Thats it....This Saleen has better numbers every where else...As incredible as the Veyron is it aint a lock to beat an Enzo, CGT much less this TT S7R on any track that isnt an ASSCAR oval...Common sence will tell anyone that a 4000lb[Veyron] car is not gonna beat a 3000lb[S7R] car around the track with both having similar power and the lighter car having better handling...If you are looking for the best performing Hyper Car its gotta be the S7R. If you are looking for the Hyper Car with the best cashe its the Veyron...

[RC45]

So for a million bucks and some change is the McLaren F1 a bad deal as well?

What is the Hockenheim ring time for the Vagrant?

Of all those car magazines that "verified" the 250+mph speed, how many took it to Laguna Seca or LeSarthe or Hockenheim or Nurburg and did a timed lap?

Please enlighten us----how many?

[RC45]

So for a million bucks and some change is the McLaren F1 a bad deal as well?

What is the Hockenheim ring time for the Vagrant?

Of all those car magazines that "verified" the 250+mph speed, how many took it to Laguna Seca or LeSarthe or Hockenheim or Nurburg and did a timed lap?

Please enlighten us----how many?

we were talking about the top speed of the car. the Veyron has been taken to Laguna Seca...but a timed lap was not the objective.

besides why are you giving so much importance on "verified" information...none of your amateur sledgehammer type deals had ANY verification on any of their achievements.

the Veyron has been verified for its top speed.......that's final.

No - YOU were the one bragging that top speed equates to greatest in history...

EVERYONE else was was talking about overall performance...

So, again, where are the lap times of the same magazine tests that "verified" these supposed claimed top speed numbers...???

I think we all know what happened.. VW stated that the cars copuld be tested - but NOT on a circuit.. ;)

[RC45]

I never changed topics, this IS a Saleen topic.. :)

The Vagrant offers nothing except a supposed 250+mph top end - it can't stop or turn any better than a BMW Z4... if it could, the car magazines would have been all over the circuit times it was capabale of ;)

[RC45]

...... except a supposed 250+mph top end -

not supposed, confirmed. i just wanna hear you admit it ;)

i don't care about the Saleen anyways, i AM on topic though, since it says "For the Saleen haters"...hehe

So no-one ever attempted a circuit time, let alone confirmed one - I just wanna hear you admit it ;)

[nthfinity]

Then there's the tuned vettes and vipers matter. Whatever you say the Veyron will out handle an older Vette or any Viper for that matter. Also tuned cars aren't useally very reliable, which the Veyron is.
C3's? handle better thena Viper ACR GTS, or SRT 10, or new SRT 10 coupe? im not so sure.... since nobody has tested it.
reliably tuned cars?
try 2 year warenty's from LPE, and various other Viper/Vette tuners etc.

[Shinigami]

I am really really enjoying this topic. I'm on Everso's side :PI'm just kinda shaking my head in dismay at the fight going on :\

[Daggernite]

I am really really enjoying this topic. I'm on Everso's side :PI'm just kinda shaking my head in dismay at the fight going on :\

Its not fighting really is it? I doubt RC45 and Everso hate each other, its a debate, thats all, and there just talking about what they believe in. The whole point of forums aint it? Everyone's throwing facts about, I'm learning stuff, so thats exzactly why I enjoy topics like this.

[RC45]

Then there's the tuned vettes and vipers matter. Whatever you say the Veyron will out handle an older Vette or any Viper for that matter.

See - such a comment shows how deep the false predjudice that JC and his clowns spread.

I am confident youhave no idea that Corvettes have been beating Ferraris, Jaguars, Mercedes and Maseratis in races since the 1950's.

Corvettes (and then Vipers) have been on a par with their historic counterparts on the race track since the very beginning. But your lack of historical knowledge about this fact is showing ;) -- along with your bias.

Need I remind you of the Oreca Vipers winning streak at Le Man among others ;)


Also tuned cars aren't useally very reliable, which the Veyron is.
Maybe not in Europe, but as mentioned already, tuned cars here carry warranties... warrantees sort of confirm the manufacturer/vendor has confidence in the product.

In the meantime, dream about the million dollar marvel while driving your trabant, and just remember if you really want to know what the Russian Mafia boss with his Veyron feels like, just buy a tuned Viper/Vette or a stock Saleen :P

[McLaren4eVa]

Then there's the tuned vettes and vipers matter. Whatever you say the Veyron will out handle an older Vette or any Viper for that matter.

See - such a comment shows how deep the false predjudice that JC and his clowns spread.

I am confident youhave no idea that Corvettes have been beating Ferraris, Jaguars, Mercedes and Maseratis in races since the 1950's.

Corvettes (and then Vipers) have been on a par with their historic counterparts on the race track since the very beginning. But your lack of historical knowledge about this fact is showing ;) -- along with your bias.

Need I remind you of the Oreca Vipers winning streak at Le Man among others ;)


Also tuned cars aren't useally very reliable, which the Veyron is.
Maybe not in Europe, but as mentioned already, tuned cars here carry warranties... warrantees sort of confirm the manufacturer/vendor has confidence in the product.

In the meantime, dream about the million dollar marvel while driving your trabant, and just remember if you really want to know what the Russian Mafia boss with his Veyron feels like, just buy a tuned Viper/Vette or a stock Saleen :P

I agree with your point about vipers and vettes being on par with ferrari's mercs etc on the track but you cannot honestly say that a viper is quicker than a ferrari as far as im concerned the only american car that is on par with its european counterparts is the ford gt and the reason this topic started the saleen. One thing i will salute to american cars is the value for money the new corvette zo6 costs alot less than a ferrari yet can still achieve very impressive performance figures. Why don't wee see when someone does a test of the veyron and the saleen and then discuss the matter because the way i see it the majority of this topic is amercians(saleen) vs. europeans(veyron).

[RC45]

^^ except your logic is flawed to hell..

a stock GT3 out laps the Veyron... and stock S7R is faster AND outhandles it.

:)

[RC45]

^^ ah - so there you have it.. the Veyron is just a posers car.

At least we agree on one thing :)

[RC45]

^^ pulling up to a Starbucks or handing the keys over to the valet attendant at the opera house is not considered driving by the way ;)

But if papperazi phothogs and posing on the red carpet turns you on, then the Bugeyed Vagrant is your car :P

[SFDMALEX]

Then there's the tuned vettes and vipers matter. Whatever you say the Veyron will out handle an older Vette or any Viper for that matter. Also tuned cars aren't useally very reliable, which the Veyron is.


Not it wont.

C5R has a great chassi. It only suffered from not having as a strong an engine as the 550 at Le Mans and the 550s short stint in ALMS. But it still won on reliability, or great team work rather.

As for Vipers...Cant comment on that...Their race success was driven by very strong engines more so then their handling. A big front mounted engine (long ass bonnet unlike F-car V12s) is not necesarily a sign of good handling...but the power conpescated for that.

[RC45]

^^ pulling up to a Starbucks or handing the keys over to the valet attendant at the opera house is not considered driving by the way ;)

But if papperazi phothogs and posing on the red carpet turns you on, then the Bugeyed Vagrant is your car :P

meh.....it's not about that...it's about the FEEL of driving...something you must miss greatly since you're just thinking of statistics all day....which is WHY you miss the point of owning cars with class, style, technology, sophistication, etc...

this is why you compare dog ugly modded Vipers with a Veyron....you just don't get it do you.

and all of this besides the fact...put any of your little amateur american laboratory modified jungle buggies against the line with the Veyron...and it will rip them a new ass :)

Feel of driving?

That's the point - I do get it.

What does "feel" have to do with how it looks? ;)

You are so caught up on the Audi TT poising thing you superimpose the same logic to all others :P

[SFDMALEX]

Then there's the tuned vettes and vipers matter. Whatever you say the Veyron will out handle an older Vette or any Viper for that matter. Also tuned cars aren't useally very reliable, which the Veyron is.


Not it wont.

C5R has a great chassi. It only suffered from not having as a strong an engine as the 550 at Le Mans and the 550s short stint in ALMS. But it still won on reliability, or great team work rather.
As for Vipers...Cant comment on that...

so basically you are comparing race cars to a production street car in a Veyron. It's two different classes of cars, man. a C5R vs. Veyron isn't exactly a proper comparison....Insane was referring to street versions of Vipers and Vettes.....Vipers have always been rubbish on the track, same with Vettes, unless they are properly modded or if they are a Z06


Mate I am talking about race cars because it is our only reliable source of perofmance figures and lap times.

Sure those cars are much modified in race trim but they still are heavily based on their stock versions.

If the C5 didnt have a good base chassis neither would the C5R ;)
Same with 550s, and same with GT3s ;)


Veyron is simply a big in your face look at me straightline monster.
It handles well, just like a golf GTI handles well, but you cant not compare the way it takes corners to an Elise an F430 or a Z06.

Its an exrcise in design and bad engineering, not counting the english made gear box.

All that crap for 1000bhp? Plus quad turbos.....they should have been pulling 2500bhp with that motor.........

I find it simply useless.

It's BMW slow around but it can go fast in straight line at the expense of 5 million dollars. :roll:

Why not take a viper, drop a super charger on it, get 1000bhp, put some big brakes on it, and it will out handel, outrun the Veyron any day.

Useless car.

[5vz-fe]

All that crap for 1000bhp? Plus quad turbos.....they should have been pulling 2500bhp with that motor.........


It is.....just that 1500hp is used for cooling that's all :D

[Daggernite]

Veyron is simply a big in your face look at me straightline monster.
It handles well, just like a golf GTI handles well, but you cant not compare the way it takes corners to an Elise an F430 or a Z06.



I think this statement should be the true un-biased summary to end this topic on. At least untill some hard hitting facts are published from somewhere to build upon. Because I think the true fact is there aint enough to go on to base an oppinion on.

Refering to lemans and putting the veyron against tuned cars just seems unfair on the veyron, as it aint really on the same level. I think this season of topgear, they should pit the saleen, Z06, Veyron together and see where they come on the timed lap board. Then we all have some perspective to go on. I dont really think a viper would qualify:| Also neither does leman cars or tuned cars :P

[Daggernite]

All that crap for 1000bhp? Plus quad turbos.....they should have been pulling 2500bhp with that motor.........


It is.....just that 1500hp is used for cooling that's all :D

Think I read here on JW that the Veyron actually made 3000bhp.

1000bhp was lost through heat

1000bhp was used for cooling

that left 1000bhp for the wheels :)

Think thats what I read.

[RC45]

Vipers have always been rubbish on the track, same with Vettes, unless they are properly modded or if they are a Z06

Perhaps someoen will race their Veyron in the SCCA T1 street class.. you know the one that requires running stock engine, transmission and brakes.
The one that had the GT3 and Z06 and Viper ACR doing really well - oh wait - this was during the model years 2001/2/3/4 - the same 4 years it took the Veyron to become a partial reality. ;)

I wonder how well a Vagrant would do with stock brakes, engine and transmision - that's what makes for real bragging rights at the Coffee Shop.. - heck even the ultimate F-Car poser falls back ont he Ferrari racing heritage - When was the last time Bugatti had a race success?

Surely if Bugatti is to remain true to their socalled heritage the Veyron will be raced... :P hehe

[Max Power]

if you really want to know what the Russian Mafia boss with his Veyron feels like, just buy a tuned Viper/Vette or a stock Saleen :P

more like what a gansta rapper feels like with his Veyron... :wink:

[RC45]

^^ Isn't here a weight limit at most race tracks? ;)

I am guessing they wouldn't even allow it on the infield grassway - for fear of it sinking in the grass.. :P

[McLaren4eVa]

Hey if only there was a super realistic videogame to test all the cars in this debate i hope they make forza 2 and include the veyron and someone said in this debate about the veyrons aerodynamics being active well isn't that the point of it nowadays u want low drag in a straight but high downforce in the bends so the fact that the veyron has an active spoiler is a good thing you only have to look at the current breed of formula one cars, the pinnacle of aerodymics, to understand why its good to have a moving rear wing. It's part of the advancement in technology, Bugatti had the absolute best engineers working on the veyron project formula one engineers the whole point of the car is to eat the competition and yet still be comfortable. Has anyone ever owned a saleen and known how hard the ride is or how much your back would ache after several hours of driving it. well i cant say i can either and the veyron is as much a grand tourer as it is hypercar. Its like the SLR fast but also able to live with everyday. Also when you buy a bugatti you become of of those few people that are able to say ' I have an bugatti veyron' just like those who buy ferraris mclarens etc. Whereas a viper is alot cheaper and theres thousands of them, you only have to look at the amount of viper tuners there are to know its not a rare specimen. Having a bugatti veyron just puts you that one step of everyone in the motor industry.