Old F1 cars vs. Group B cars

[komotar]

I really don't think this could be done. I could be wrong, but still....the amount of grip that the Delta had wasn't "that" good to compete with the huuge rear tires and the downforce of the 80's F1 car. Even if Lancia had 4wd and power that could move mountains....

Interesting topic. Can't wait for more replies....

[dropot2]

I think it's part of the legendof the Group B rallyecars - you know... half truth, half myth :wink: :D

si non è vero, è ben trovato... :wink: (if it is not truth, at least is original)

[gucom]

i read the same claim in a mag article some days ago, i'll try to look it up...

[racer_f50]

anybody know acceleration times for the F1 & group B cars?

someone told me once that a Peugeot 205t16 would do 0-100-0mph in 11 seconds on gravel :shock: no idea where they got that number, but if true that's quite impressive.

for cornering grip, i'd put my money on the F1 cars, since they'll have more downforce and probably less weight, but for acceleration I'll wait for actual numbers.

[novass]

I have a hard time believing this. At work we maintain an ex-Nigel Mansell Lotus 81-B Formula 1 car. I have seen this car on the track and seen how fast it really is. I know Deltas are fast, especially in Rally form, but it is still in essence "a car."

As far as acceleration goes from a standstill, I could see the Delta with its 4WD beating a F1 car for a brief period since F1 cars arent usually geared for that kind of driving. So in a drag race I think its possible for the Delta to win, but around a track, I dont think so.

[nameless]

anybody know acceleration times for the F1 & group B cars?

someone told me once that a Peugeot 205t16 would do 0-100-0mph in 11 seconds on gravel :shock: no idea where they got that number, but if true that's quite impressive.

for cornering grip, i'd put my money on the F1 cars, since they'll have more downforce and probably less weight, but for acceleration I'll wait for actual numbers.

just use google :)

http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/

"For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road."

[inso]

Group B is not the hottest rally cars ever, Group S is the one that had the really special cars. Like MR2 with toyotas group C Lemans engine and so on. Too bad Group B was too dangerous and Group S never came reality. But there are a few protos that were to be included in the Group S.

[bmwmpower]

i read few years ago in EVo or somewhere about P 205 Group N, Nelson piquet told to mag,that 205 accelerate better then his F1 car :D
BTW can someone Remember that JC Head to Head video, there was Focus WRC vs. F 1 , and F1 beat WRC so easy
and remember Top Gear challenge EVO 8 or 7 vs. Rallye Quatro, evo was faster

[nameless]

i read few years ago in EVo or somewhere about P 205 Group N, Nelson piquet told to mag,that 205 accelerate better then his F1 car :D
BTW can someone Remember that JC Head to Head video, there was Focus WRC vs. F 1 , and F1 beat WRC so easy



sure the f1 was faster in head to head but it had how much 800 hp?
...and the focus 300?
i would like to see a 800 hp wrc focus :))

[sameerrao]

Interesting speculation.

I am not sure that the S4 car would do so well. Rally cars are mostly optimized for a 0 - 100mph scenario with quick acceleration, agility and suspension compliance as key design elements.

On a fast F1 circuit like Spa, Suzuka, Silverstone or so, the car will be operating in the 160mph+ range for a good part of the lap. I dont think anyone has evalauated the aero characteristics or suspension characteristics at such speeds. Besides the brakes may not last if deceleration from these speeds are considered. The drag/lift ratios will be certainly an issue considering the boxy saloon car structures.

Also key to F1 speed is fast pit stops - quick refueling and fast tire changes - again not a rally strong point.

The fuel tanks in a WRC hold about 80-90 litres - I am not sure what the gas mileage is ... will it be able to sustain a one stop strategy?

Maybe I am thinking too much about this as usual :lol:

[Mattk]

Rally cars are really designed for gravel, dirt and other such rubbish surfaces. Racing tracks are probably not a rally car's domain. I'm not entirely sure such a rally car would be able to drift through bitumen with any speed advantage. The superior cornering ability of the F1 car would be telling in a race around Estoril, or any other racing track, for that matter.

[jenkF1]

Find it hard to believe the Lancer came close, especially in the turbo f1 era. Unless that year's quali session was rain drenched I doubt it very much..its a myth.

However take a Group B on a Racing track it would only be a about 5-10secs off the pace in its prefeered conditions (rain, bit of a dusty track, twisty etc). Put an F1 car on a rally stage and it would be 2years off the pace, if it finished the stage! :lol:

[cooperluke]

i would be nice to see them both on the same exact track and see how close the Group B car could get.

If someone has the cars... I would go to Estoril to test track them very gladly! :D

I'm just some 50 miles from there! :D

[leo_26782]

Find it hard to believe the Lancer came close, especially in the turbo f1 era. Unless that year's quali session was rain drenched I doubt it very much..its a myth.

However take a Group B on a Racing track it would only be a about 5-10secs off the pace in its prefeered conditions (rain, bit of a dusty track, twisty etc). Put an F1 car on a rally stage and it would be 2years off the pace, if it finished the stage! :lol:

That reminds me of the vid of Hakkinnen in his McLaren on the snow. He didn't try to go faster than walking :lol:

[leo_26782]

^ That's exactly the one I'm talking about. But I do still find it funny :lol:

[Mattk]

I saw a picture of that...

jenkF1 is right. F1 cars are pretty lousy when it comes to durability. But still, on a track, I doubt a Group B car would be able to take on an F1 car.

[graywolf624]

Quite incorrect.. The setups don't work cross functionally. A car setup for a smooth surface is not going to do well on a bumpy rocky one, and vice versa. I have no doubt from an engine stand point it would be close, but suspension geometry would have had to be completely modified.

I found the vid and it's not worth watching Might have seen and easily just forgotten
I think that was one on early top gear actually.

[HoboPie]

How do the F1 cars of that era compare to those of the last 5 or 6 years and the same question for the rally cars? I ask because I remember a video with a modern rally and F1 car on a track and it wasn't even close.... well it was, but there were staggered start times.

I just don't see it being possible. Even with the high powered B cars once they got going the F1 car would be quicker and even if they somehow were able to match the straightline pace, in the cornering(especially high speed corners where it counts) the F1 cars would just run away.

[McLaren4eVa]

Im Not Sure If Its True But I Read Somewhere that Group B Cars Could Out Accelerate F1 Cars In This Era Jus Cant See That Happening. Not A Big Fan Of The Lancia More A Quattro Fan But Hey