LS7 Crate Motors... already being delivered - $11,000!!!

[RC45]

...and it's only $14,000... :)

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=LS7

Where else can you buy an aluminium V8 427ci hi-po dry-sump motor for $14,000??

It just get's better and better... :)

It won'y be long before you will see C5 retro-fit kits for the motor.

Looks like my C5 Z06 will be around for a long time... ;)

[nthfinity]

^^^^
so Rc, you wont be going for the 383 stroker after all?
last year, you seemed quite convinced that 500-550 crank hp would be more then enough to handle and still be streetable...

is it actually cheaper to buy a brand new LS7 then to build up a $6,000 LS6? or is it the dry sump system that gets you?

[RC45]

Well - with $6000, 500rwhp, 346ci Heads/Cam option it is very hard to not go that route.

But the pure carnal nastyness of 427ci cannot be denied. And 427ci based LSx motors require a lot of work - even C5R block based buildout require a lot of work.

If the LS7 proves to be pretty reliable, then how can you argue with a prepackaged 427ci solution?

[nthfinity]

well an oem 427 for 14,000 doesnt exactly seem the deal of the century, when compared to the offerings of the LS6... but If reliability isnt the issue these first car seem to be having, then not so terrible.

[RC45]

Tuner 427's with the appropriate components ran $15, $16, $20K - so $14K and dropping is a good starting point :)

Besides, a 500rwhp 346ci motor is working hard... a 500rwhp 427ci motor is relaxing ;)

[dutchmasterflex]

$14k for a handbuilt 427ci easily making 500hp.. sounds like a deal to me. I am eager to see just how reliable the LS7 will be.

Will definately be interesting to see what kind of monsters tuners an hot rodders will make with this engine..

If I had a ridiculous amount of money and the know how, I would figure out a way to shoe horn this beast into my RAV4.. :P

[gobs3z]

^^Look at the Le Mans, the only reason the C6R won is because of reliability. GM doesn't seem to have reliability issues, it's just the lack of quality materials put on top of the reliable drivetrain.

[dutchmasterflex]

I'm fully aware of the reliability of the C6R, and even though the C6 z06 is developed straight from the C6R, both cars are built for different purposes. The engine of a C6R will never see the type of mileage Z06 owners would hope to get from their engines..

I am personally biased towards Japanese manufactures such as Toyota (my family has only bought toyotas because of their amazing reliability and low price value) because you can treat the engine like shit and it will still run for 100,000+ miles..

[astonmartinandy]

So talking about all these conversions.. any details about a possible swap into a 1.25 Ford Fiesta?

[gobs3z]

Well i've seen careless drivers beat on their LS1 powered car without chaning the oil for 10k miles. It was slower than it should have been but still ran despite the face that LS1's are known for oil lubrication problems. I recall more issues with the E46 M3 engine then the LS line of engines. :D

[graywolf624]

I am personally biased towards Japanese manufactures such as Toyota (my family has only bought toyotas because of their amazing reliability and low price value) because you can treat the engine like shit and it will still run for 100,000+ miles..
gms small blocks do that easily as well. They are generally known as bullet proof.

Its not uncommon to find 350 l98s from the 80s with 200000 miles still running close to the same 1/4 times they did when new.. And thats the 80s version, we've had 25 more years of research.

How do I know about the l98? I raced and open tracked one with a stock engine other then wires(all suspension mods, though expensive ones) about 2 years ago that was from 1988. I drug it out to the drag strip before I installed the suspension and matched the time car and driver ran in the 1/4 in 1988. After 15 years and 100000+ miles the only problems with the car were electrical/rusted out exhaust.

[exhausted mules]

the average mileage on japanese cars and trucks up here up is about 270-350 before they start having serious problems.

of course you have your exceptions.

you'll see some high mileage domestics as well but not nearly as many (and as good running) as their toyota and honda counter parts.

.normally i wouldn't consider an engine reliable if it can't run for at least 250 before needing some major work done.

[graywolf624]

normally i wouldn't consider an engine reliable if it can't run for at least 250 before needing some major work done.
A high performance engine like that out of a vette used for track use that has 100-200k miles is a bit different then the honda you drove to work for 10 years. I saw speeds of 140 on this stock engine, and Im sure the previous owner didnt baby it(who does that to a performance car).

I always wonder when I hear about honda and toyotas car reliability. How much are they aided by making cars that arent performance related. If you dont run the piss out of it, reliability certainly will be better, even with lack of routine maintenance. The nsx and supra not withstanding(which Ive never seen 250k mile examples of) neither company has made a performance car long enough to reach 250k miles.

[CMonakar]

Not a bad plan RC especially considering you can resell your original motor.

[SilverPhoenix]

The biggest difference one will notice between a 505HP LS6 and an LS7, is tha the LS7 will have a much flater tq curve, and the LS7 is a dry sump hehe.

[nthfinity]

The biggest difference one will notice between a 505HP LS6 and an LS7, is tha the LS7 will have a much flater tq curve, and the LS7 is a dry sump hehe.
its goofy to think of a 5.7liter v8 as 'peaky' LOL :lol:

[SilverPhoenix]

The biggest difference one will notice between a 505HP LS6 and an LS7, is tha the LS7 will have a much flater tq curve, and the LS7 is a dry sump hehe.
its goofy to think of a 5.7liter v8 as 'peaky' LOL :lol:

lol true enough, but the dyno sheets don't lie, the LS2 and LS7 have far flatter tq curves.

[RC45]

Yes and no.

Yes because it is still a GM Small block... no because there are a number of auxiliary systems needed that will probably require custom fabrication - the oiling system being one of them.

There are a couple of 500+hp crate motors that would probably be a more direct bolt in applicaiton, but you can bet your last dollar that there are quite a few LS7 transplants under way or in th planning stages already.

:)

[SilverPhoenix]

Not scared about things like the oil system, thats just to modify to make it fit.... :wink:
things like AC and such are just added weight so if that would be a problem it just have to go..... :P

Well first things first...finding the car.... :D

Well ever since the 1st LS1 it has always been the wiring and computer system, but there are probably going to be heaps of stand alone systems, and mebe even like the Ls1 someone will develop and sell a carb kit for it lol.

[SilverPhoenix]

If this engine becomes a possible as an install Im not about to put carbs on it....not going to make it older tech.... :wink:

well it may be older but not worse hehe, some people got a better outcome with carbs for their build than an FI. FI doesn't neccessairly mean a more powerful engine just a more flexible one that adjusts better to changing conditions, Some powerful racecars still use Carbs. It's not like carbs have sat still ever since FI, but I also would go for FI =P especially if I can get ITB's, they just look so nice.

[RC45]

Look how cheap the C6 Z06 brakes (the ones that haul it from 60 to 0 in 100 feet) are... ;)

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=C6


GM PART # 19121788
CATEGORY: Wheel Brake Cylinder/Caliper
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $329.60
OUR PRICE: $187.87
DESCRIPTION: CALIPER




GM PART # 19121787
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $153.91
OUR PRICE: $87.73
DESCRIPTION: ROTOR




GM PART # 19121809
CATEGORY: Brake Pads and Shoes
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $337.74
OUR PRICE: $192.51
DESCRIPTION: PAD KIT


This is a good time to be in the Hot Rod hobby... ;)

Then compare to the C5 Z06brakes (60-0 in about 112ft)

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=C5


GM PART # 88895128
CATEGORY: Wheel Brake Cylinder/Caliper
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $177.52
OUR PRICE: $88.77
DESCRIPTION: Z06 LEFT FRONT CALIPER
Z06 Brake Calipers For added distinction, the wheels of the Z06 are designed to show off eye-catching Torch Red brake calipers - at rest and especially in motion.



GM PART # 88926732
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $80.72
OUR PRICE: $40.36
DESCRIPTION: Front LH Rotor cross-drilled and slotted




GM PART # 88909667
CATEGORY: Brake Pads and Shoes
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $115.68
OUR PRICE: $57.84
DESCRIPTION: Front Ceramic Pad Kit

Ceramic Disc Pads

Great braking performance with less brake dust

[dutchmasterflex]

i need to start saving my money.

[RC45]

Over at the Z06 Forum, one of the guys already took delivery of his "Project Car" LS7...

We just received ours yesterday.. $12,5k from Gene at Fred Beans.

Some pics:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/offtruck.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/garage1.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/427.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/LS7.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/ls72.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/ls73.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mkoch/ls74.jpg

[graywolf624]

Look how cheap the C6 Z06 brakes (the ones that haul it from 60 to 0 in 100 feet) are.
Hopefully they last longer and are safer for track use this time...

*shudders remembering Andis split rotor after a lap of road atlanta.

[RC45]

These are the street issue brakes....

[graywolf624]

I realize.. The 04's rotors with hawk blue pads had a tendancy to split up the middle under track use. 2 years ago at road atlanta andi came off the track with a split up the entire top half of the rotor. I spent all nite finding him a replacement rotor.

[RC45]

Yeah - '04 the street rotors (which I run) will last a session or two of track abuse. At $40 a pop from GMParts and $28 a pop from NAPA they are really a consumable. (cheaper than brake pads ;))

:)

The guys down here just tak 3 or for sets of rotors and pads with them to track events.

I have seen a very upset Porker TT wner with fractured carbon metallic whatchamacallit rotors... the difference was he was facing a $3000 bill ;)

[graywolf624]

Consumables great till it blows on the track as his did.. then it can be scary..

Not to mention it basically rules out open track challenge and other series where you carry your spares.. Youd need a trailer full of rotors to compete.

[RC45]

Not really - the actual number of catastrophic failures is really low. The rotors that I have heard of all had a previous street life and may have been suspect.

The other option that works very well for a number of racers is the cryo-treat the stock rotors and stick to a proper warm up cool down regimen.

An opinion of a respected Z06 Track Car prepper...


Williams GT Engineering @ www.WilliamsGTEng.us
F1 Technology, Parts and Preparation for Competition Corvettes
AMSOIL Online Store

Here's my personal experience with the C5 Z06 rotors.

1. The original OEM Non cryo'd rotors were toast after after 2 track days (Sat/Sun). Disposable throw aways.

2. I replaced them with:
- a set of OEM rotors from Chevy
- the last set of T1 rotors available (These are essentially OEM's with fatter cheeks..same matallurgy)

3. I Cryo'd both sets of new rotors (3 step cryo and final heat treat) plus performed a Meta-Lax subharmonic stress relief on them. These have NOT been Extrude Honed or coated.

4. I run Cooling duct extensions and Spidel ducts and have an MPC mister that lowers inlet air 30 degrees

5. I use one set as the primary rotors and the other set as track back-up. I exchange the rotor sets back and forth every 6 mo.

6. I do at least 1 high speed track event per month (DE, Hillclimb, Solo I Time Trial) and 2 Solo II events a month and drive the car occasionally during the summer (26,000 mi tot.). Plus I run a co driver(s) so the brakes are well used.

7. I use Carbon/Kevlar KFP Pads which are rotor friendly but stop the car on a dime.

8. So that's roughly 12,500 mi per set of rotors in 4 years and they are about half life with NO cracking or warping.

Cryo process cost me $25/rotor ($200 total racer net) through a sponsor. Well worth the money. I had expected to get 10,000 mi from each set but it looks like I will replace them when they reach 15,000 mi each.

Had I not Cryo'd them I would have gone through at least 13 sets of rotors so far...maybe more.

[graywolf624]

Not really - the actual number of catastrophic failures is really low. The rotors that I have heard of all had a previous street life and may have been suspect
The rotor being split in half like I discribed I would define as a catastrophic failure, even if it didnt explode quite yet. In Andi's case the rotors only street usage was the drive from dallas to atlanta, which he used to break in the pads/rotors.

[ae86_16v]

Holy shit, they really do come in Crates!

[T-Bird]

normally i wouldn't consider an engine reliable if it can't run for at least 250 before needing some major work done.
A high performance engine like that out of a vette used for track use that has 100-200k miles is a bit different then the honda you drove to work for 10 years. I saw speeds of 140 on this stock engine, and Im sure the previous owner didnt baby it(who does that to a performance car).

I always wonder when I hear about honda and toyotas car reliability. How much are they aided by making cars that arent performance related. If you dont run the piss out of it, reliability certainly will be better, even with lack of routine maintenance. The nsx and supra not withstanding(which Ive never seen 250k mile examples of) neither company has made a performance car long enough to reach 250k miles.

well considering I've already seen about 15 NSX's mostly stock one far from it and the most any of them had on the car was $80K and every 10K is an $850 service and a recommended yearly safety inspection. And EVERY Honda/Acura requires a not so cheap 100k mile service where the Timming belt/belts are changed along with the water pump. In comparison my Thunderbird's original engine had 180K on it with the original Timming chain and water pump without any signs of wear and it had all the original gaskets and they looked OK when I tore the engine down, And I see atleast 1 Acura a day that needs new gaskets before they hit 100k. So in all fairness Japanese cars aren't as reliable as one would think and to keep them running 300K+ you need to really take care of the car and NEVER miss a service. Now most American V8's especially the LS motors can go for many many miles before needing some serious work on them I've seen insane rust bucket Camaros that had the original engine running perfect.

[ae86_16v]

^ Come on T Bird that is a bit unfair. I mean you are comparing your TBird to IMHO a supercar. If it it is not a supercar, it is still a upper end sports car.

I mean then, why don't I throw in my civic with the D15 engine that has 225k without any major work. Timing Belt, water pump, and that's it . . . oh yeah and oil changes at 3k.

[graywolf624]

If it it is not a supercar, it is still a upper end sports car.

I mean then, why don't I throw in my civic with the D15 engine that has 225k without any major work. Timing Belt, water pump, and that's it . . . oh yeah and oil changes at 3k.

Which one has more hsp? We are taking about engines afterall, not the total package.

[ae86_16v]

If it it is not a supercar, it is still a upper end sports car.

I mean then, why don't I throw in my civic with the D15 engine that has 225k without any major work. Timing Belt, water pump, and that's it . . . oh yeah and oil changes at 3k.

Which one has more hsp? We are taking about engines afterall, not the total package.

But I am not comparing my Civic to the NSX or Corvette. Thus I am talking about the comment that TBird's T-Bird went 180k w/o changes and he is comparing it to a NSX.

So why not compare it to my civic then. Compare cars in the same class. NSX to Corvette. Apples to apples.

[graywolf624]

A tbird, while certainly not a sports car, is about as far from a civic as it is from the nsx.