RC45
10-22-2005, 10:47 PM
This from a bloke over on the Z06 Forum... his impressions of his new GT3 vs his C5 Z06.
Interesting how people who actually own the cars are a lot less biased than the people who just read about em ;)
Enjoy..
Just drove the wheels off my new GT3 (1200 miles almost) in 6 days. And I just pulled the Z06 out of the garage and went for a drive.
It was very interesting sitting in the Z after having that much seat time in the GT3. The Z felt VERY, VERY Different. However, I really, really got a feel for the differences between two makes of super cars.
They are two different cars. The Z06 is faster than the GT3 off the line. It's got 5.7 liter grunt everywhere. It's softer in the suspension, more comfortable, the radio blows the doors off the radio in the GT3. It's fun and easy to drive. I can fit 3 sets of golf clubs in the rear. The Gear throw is easy, but long compared to the GT3. The clutch is butter soft. The engage range is much tighter than the GT3. The Z has about 1/4" of travel from clutch disengaged to engaged. The seats on the Z are much softer, and more comfortable, but afford no lateral support to the driver. I feel like I am sitting on a pillow with no side support in the Z.
The GT3 on the other hand, is tight, has a throw so short as to be unmeasurable (I have the short shift option), jumps from 70 to 120 while passing in a heartbeat. It's more precise. It's stiffer. The car will hit Bump Steer quicker, and will jump around in the Yaw plane. If you are not on top of it and you hit a major Rutt while changing lanes and accellerating to 120 to pass on a badly rutted road you might end up poorly. It's not bad, but it is a race car, and hitting a rut while turning or changing lanes can be an experience. Anyone could handly it, but if you are casually driving one handed, you could be in for trouble. The steering wheel is a racing wheel. It has the two bumps at 10 and 2 which I think every car should have. Very nice. The wheel feels very attached and precise. The seats are harder, but they feel much more supportive in the lateral directions. When I sit in the P-car, I feel like I am clipped into the seat. Though, the seat is uncomfortable until you find that perfect position. This position will be much different for every person. The Clutch is much stiffer. It requires more attention to drive. The Binders are better. There is no storage space. I would have to fold my R7 Taylormade three times to fit it into the boot. The engine power curve is "peakier". Hitting right around 3k rpm where it takes off. Almost a turbo lag like hit of acceleration when you hit 3k. It Redlines at 8,000 RPM.
Stiff clutch? The GT3 clutch is MILES harder/stiffer than the Z06. The GT3 has about 1-1/2" or so of travel between fully engaged and fully disengaged; The Z? 1/4" or so. First time I drove the Z06 after driving the GT3 for 1200 miles, I just about put the clutch through the floorboards it was so easy to push in! The throw of the stick in the Z is much longer than the short shift option I have in the P-car. Though anyone who says that the Z is notchier/stiffer/more difficult that the Porsche is patently lying and/or has never driven the GT3 or the Z.
In a turn, if you lift, you do feel a strange sensation. The settling/pulling of the rear of the car as the center of gravity moves forwards due to the rear mount of the engine. I was not sure what it was until just a few minutes ago thinking about it. When you lift, particularly in a corner, you feel this weird transfer of weight that I have never felt before, and it's due to the rear engine. I would imagine at the very ragged edge of adhesion, this might be a very, very bad thing to run into.
The P-car expects you to know what you are doing. And won't give you the grace of a computer system recover if you screw up. It's much more European. You are responsible for yourself. The Z Car is more american. It's setup to protect you from yourself.
I sense German Precision in the Porsche. When you are doing 3 MPH, you can see that on the Analog Speedo. Where american cars get kinda vague under 10mph. The Porsche crest on the steering wheel is PRECISELY centered on the turn axis of the steering wheel. No wobbly arc of a turn for this emblem. It's EXACTLY centered. You will notice this after driving for a while that the Porsche emblem on the wheel does not wobble left or right, or up or down when you turn. There is no up and down adjustment of the steering wheel, though you can pull the wheel farther forward or push it away from you.
The Z and The GT3 share the same load lightening noise. Little to no insulation around here. The doors on the Z clunk closed a bit more solidly - and you can hear the hollowness of the Porsche doors when closed. Tap the roof and you hear the metalic hollow sound of metal. I wonder how much weight they could have saved had they used modern plastics/fiberglass?
The Xenon headlight package is awesome. I wish all cars had it. The second you turn them on - you notice the impressive difference.
I see tons more vettes on the Roads. Lots of Z06's. I have yet to see another GT3 when I have been driving in Phoenix or Las Vegas. Everyone stops to look at the GT3. Some people stop to look at the Z06.
I was a bit lost without the HUD at first! I kept looking vaguely somewhere in the P-car for a speed readout and realized it was my habit of using the HUD in the Z. The Speedo in the P-car is actually poorly placed, and rather difficult to get a precise reading at speed. There is a smallish digital display, and then a speedo guage. Both of which are kind of blocked by your knuckles/hands when driving. Of course, the Gerhmahns put the Tach in the middle. Which, I don't necessarily disagree with!
Here is a pic of the dash:
http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/7169GT3_0126_Medium_-med.JPG
As you can imagine, put your hands on the wheel, and it kinda makes for a tough view of the MPH.
There is no Oil Temp readout - so you cannot watch oil temperature. Only a water temp gauge. The digital readouts are all about Temp, Avg Gas mileage, Miles to Empty. No real engine info here. Almost like Porsche does not want to allow you to see what your engine is doing. I LIKE knowing what my car's vitals are about. The Porsche does not allow me to see this stuff. Where I can get 6 vitals from the Porsche (Battery Volts, MPH, RPM, Water Temp, Gas, Oil Pressure), I can get 7 in the dash of the Z. Battery, Water Temp, MPH, RPM, Oil Pressure, Gas & Oil Temp in the digital display, amoungst others. The digital info available on the Z is way more than you can find on the P-car. The P-car does allow for display of 3 items at a time. But they are limited to your choice of Odometer, Trip Odometer, Outside Temp, Avg Gas Mileage, Miles to Empty, Radio Station Name and Avg Speed.
Which is better? In my opinion, they are both great cars, and I am lucky to have them both, and I have a tough decision choosing which to drive each day. (I know, I know, Poor me!!!)
I suspect given an average driver, he is going to drive faster and safer in the Z06. Given an excellent driver, the GT3 just might have the edge. I have raced the Z06. I have not raced the GT3. The stock Z06 was passed that day by two cars only. A Ferrari Modena (race Prepped & a better driver than me) and a GT2 (I think) which actually never passed me, but he could have if the driver knew how to drive a line in the corners It was brutal, I mean BRUTAL fast on the straights and the Z was left in the dust.
I like both cars. I mean, I really, really like both cars. I am kind of an attention slut, so it's kinda neat driving the GT3 and hearing kids and adults alike say "WOW!! A GT3!!!!" and people stopping to ask about it. I don't get that as much with the Z06. I do get it, but not as much. Just like the Z, both the P-car and the Z are instant friend makers for fellow afficianado's.
The Z IS the better value looking at purely dollar numbers. And some would even argue it's the better value for the average driver. The Porsche is a true race car (super car even?) in almost everyone's eyes. It feels more pure in the sense that the car is not going to protect you from reality, and it's not going to blanket your feel with a computer system. I know, I know you can turn it off in the Z, but the idea/sense is still there.
And if you want to know, which would I choose if I had to choose only one? Well, I just don't know! Like I said, I really, really, really like them both. So, well, I just won't choose dammit!!
Because Ultimately, which car you prefer is your own personal choice. And which car you find "better" is just that as well. A personal experience of what you value more. Each car is very well capable of being better than the other in it's stock configuration given any number of drivers.
So, you won't find a ringing proclamation of "The X Car is Better" here. But, as the owner and driver of the classic rivalry of Porsche Vs Corvette. I can say. They are both hands down, impressive cars, and I am happy to pilot them both. And, I can give you FIRST HAND experience in them both. Not Book knowledge or biased opinions having driven one and not the other.
I am however, willing to put my line in the sand on one thing. Millineum Yellow and Speed Yellow, are the BEST colors hands down. Naturally. :D
Interesting how people who actually own the cars are a lot less biased than the people who just read about em ;)
Enjoy..
Just drove the wheels off my new GT3 (1200 miles almost) in 6 days. And I just pulled the Z06 out of the garage and went for a drive.
It was very interesting sitting in the Z after having that much seat time in the GT3. The Z felt VERY, VERY Different. However, I really, really got a feel for the differences between two makes of super cars.
They are two different cars. The Z06 is faster than the GT3 off the line. It's got 5.7 liter grunt everywhere. It's softer in the suspension, more comfortable, the radio blows the doors off the radio in the GT3. It's fun and easy to drive. I can fit 3 sets of golf clubs in the rear. The Gear throw is easy, but long compared to the GT3. The clutch is butter soft. The engage range is much tighter than the GT3. The Z has about 1/4" of travel from clutch disengaged to engaged. The seats on the Z are much softer, and more comfortable, but afford no lateral support to the driver. I feel like I am sitting on a pillow with no side support in the Z.
The GT3 on the other hand, is tight, has a throw so short as to be unmeasurable (I have the short shift option), jumps from 70 to 120 while passing in a heartbeat. It's more precise. It's stiffer. The car will hit Bump Steer quicker, and will jump around in the Yaw plane. If you are not on top of it and you hit a major Rutt while changing lanes and accellerating to 120 to pass on a badly rutted road you might end up poorly. It's not bad, but it is a race car, and hitting a rut while turning or changing lanes can be an experience. Anyone could handly it, but if you are casually driving one handed, you could be in for trouble. The steering wheel is a racing wheel. It has the two bumps at 10 and 2 which I think every car should have. Very nice. The wheel feels very attached and precise. The seats are harder, but they feel much more supportive in the lateral directions. When I sit in the P-car, I feel like I am clipped into the seat. Though, the seat is uncomfortable until you find that perfect position. This position will be much different for every person. The Clutch is much stiffer. It requires more attention to drive. The Binders are better. There is no storage space. I would have to fold my R7 Taylormade three times to fit it into the boot. The engine power curve is "peakier". Hitting right around 3k rpm where it takes off. Almost a turbo lag like hit of acceleration when you hit 3k. It Redlines at 8,000 RPM.
Stiff clutch? The GT3 clutch is MILES harder/stiffer than the Z06. The GT3 has about 1-1/2" or so of travel between fully engaged and fully disengaged; The Z? 1/4" or so. First time I drove the Z06 after driving the GT3 for 1200 miles, I just about put the clutch through the floorboards it was so easy to push in! The throw of the stick in the Z is much longer than the short shift option I have in the P-car. Though anyone who says that the Z is notchier/stiffer/more difficult that the Porsche is patently lying and/or has never driven the GT3 or the Z.
In a turn, if you lift, you do feel a strange sensation. The settling/pulling of the rear of the car as the center of gravity moves forwards due to the rear mount of the engine. I was not sure what it was until just a few minutes ago thinking about it. When you lift, particularly in a corner, you feel this weird transfer of weight that I have never felt before, and it's due to the rear engine. I would imagine at the very ragged edge of adhesion, this might be a very, very bad thing to run into.
The P-car expects you to know what you are doing. And won't give you the grace of a computer system recover if you screw up. It's much more European. You are responsible for yourself. The Z Car is more american. It's setup to protect you from yourself.
I sense German Precision in the Porsche. When you are doing 3 MPH, you can see that on the Analog Speedo. Where american cars get kinda vague under 10mph. The Porsche crest on the steering wheel is PRECISELY centered on the turn axis of the steering wheel. No wobbly arc of a turn for this emblem. It's EXACTLY centered. You will notice this after driving for a while that the Porsche emblem on the wheel does not wobble left or right, or up or down when you turn. There is no up and down adjustment of the steering wheel, though you can pull the wheel farther forward or push it away from you.
The Z and The GT3 share the same load lightening noise. Little to no insulation around here. The doors on the Z clunk closed a bit more solidly - and you can hear the hollowness of the Porsche doors when closed. Tap the roof and you hear the metalic hollow sound of metal. I wonder how much weight they could have saved had they used modern plastics/fiberglass?
The Xenon headlight package is awesome. I wish all cars had it. The second you turn them on - you notice the impressive difference.
I see tons more vettes on the Roads. Lots of Z06's. I have yet to see another GT3 when I have been driving in Phoenix or Las Vegas. Everyone stops to look at the GT3. Some people stop to look at the Z06.
I was a bit lost without the HUD at first! I kept looking vaguely somewhere in the P-car for a speed readout and realized it was my habit of using the HUD in the Z. The Speedo in the P-car is actually poorly placed, and rather difficult to get a precise reading at speed. There is a smallish digital display, and then a speedo guage. Both of which are kind of blocked by your knuckles/hands when driving. Of course, the Gerhmahns put the Tach in the middle. Which, I don't necessarily disagree with!
Here is a pic of the dash:
http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/7169GT3_0126_Medium_-med.JPG
As you can imagine, put your hands on the wheel, and it kinda makes for a tough view of the MPH.
There is no Oil Temp readout - so you cannot watch oil temperature. Only a water temp gauge. The digital readouts are all about Temp, Avg Gas mileage, Miles to Empty. No real engine info here. Almost like Porsche does not want to allow you to see what your engine is doing. I LIKE knowing what my car's vitals are about. The Porsche does not allow me to see this stuff. Where I can get 6 vitals from the Porsche (Battery Volts, MPH, RPM, Water Temp, Gas, Oil Pressure), I can get 7 in the dash of the Z. Battery, Water Temp, MPH, RPM, Oil Pressure, Gas & Oil Temp in the digital display, amoungst others. The digital info available on the Z is way more than you can find on the P-car. The P-car does allow for display of 3 items at a time. But they are limited to your choice of Odometer, Trip Odometer, Outside Temp, Avg Gas Mileage, Miles to Empty, Radio Station Name and Avg Speed.
Which is better? In my opinion, they are both great cars, and I am lucky to have them both, and I have a tough decision choosing which to drive each day. (I know, I know, Poor me!!!)
I suspect given an average driver, he is going to drive faster and safer in the Z06. Given an excellent driver, the GT3 just might have the edge. I have raced the Z06. I have not raced the GT3. The stock Z06 was passed that day by two cars only. A Ferrari Modena (race Prepped & a better driver than me) and a GT2 (I think) which actually never passed me, but he could have if the driver knew how to drive a line in the corners It was brutal, I mean BRUTAL fast on the straights and the Z was left in the dust.
I like both cars. I mean, I really, really like both cars. I am kind of an attention slut, so it's kinda neat driving the GT3 and hearing kids and adults alike say "WOW!! A GT3!!!!" and people stopping to ask about it. I don't get that as much with the Z06. I do get it, but not as much. Just like the Z, both the P-car and the Z are instant friend makers for fellow afficianado's.
The Z IS the better value looking at purely dollar numbers. And some would even argue it's the better value for the average driver. The Porsche is a true race car (super car even?) in almost everyone's eyes. It feels more pure in the sense that the car is not going to protect you from reality, and it's not going to blanket your feel with a computer system. I know, I know you can turn it off in the Z, but the idea/sense is still there.
And if you want to know, which would I choose if I had to choose only one? Well, I just don't know! Like I said, I really, really, really like them both. So, well, I just won't choose dammit!!
Because Ultimately, which car you prefer is your own personal choice. And which car you find "better" is just that as well. A personal experience of what you value more. Each car is very well capable of being better than the other in it's stock configuration given any number of drivers.
So, you won't find a ringing proclamation of "The X Car is Better" here. But, as the owner and driver of the classic rivalry of Porsche Vs Corvette. I can say. They are both hands down, impressive cars, and I am happy to pilot them both. And, I can give you FIRST HAND experience in them both. Not Book knowledge or biased opinions having driven one and not the other.
I am however, willing to put my line in the sand on one thing. Millineum Yellow and Speed Yellow, are the BEST colors hands down. Naturally. :D