View Full Version : Your salary?
Why not talk in annual salaries??
And what about google... it can't be that hard to find such info on the web :?
BTW - when i saw the topic title, i thought you meant your salary. i.e. mine. That would certainly have led to BS and a lot of Pics or STFU posts :wink:
nthfinity
10-06-2005, 01:21 PM
BTW - when i saw the topic title, i thought you meant your salary. i.e. mine. That would certainly have led to BS and a lot of Pics or STFU posts
not to mention, some people want to some things private
bmwmpower
10-06-2005, 01:36 PM
here is average salary 16 000 sk, thats 400 Euro
gucom
10-06-2005, 02:16 PM
wow i believe average for some1 who just got out of uni, is about 1900 gross (could be completely wrong tho). in average overall salary (so not just graduates, but all ppl of all ages) holland is in the top10 in the world
A couple things..
...annual would just be monthly multiplied by 12... ;) :P
...from my observations it would seem that a non-engineering/doctoral graduate in the USA would start at about $3000 to 4000/month gross (thats $$36,000 to $48,000 for the math challenged ;)) - and that graduates (from 1 and 2 year college training facilities) in various service industries such as fire, police, retail, administrative, mechanics etc can range from as low as $2000 per month ($24,000 per year) for base entry level salaried positions.
Hourly unskilled labour can range fro $7.00/hour to $15.00 depending on region and industry - skilled hourly wages seem to be from $20ish per hour up to $50, 60 or even $100+ per hour. Especially in the specialized hardware and software service industry.
Of course there are always anomalies - but by and large this is rather better than similar pay rates I observed in South Africa - for the simple reason is you are earning in local currency, and paying local currency to maintain your life style.
So, as an example, for the R48,000 per year uni graduate in South Africa, you are stuck buying a used Toyota Corolla for R100,000, renting and apartment for R3,000 per month and paying R5/litre for petrol, as well as paying R12 for a Big Mac and R6 for litre of milk and R3 for a loaf of bread.
That same $48,000 per year graduate in the USA can rent an apartment for $500 per month, buy a NEW Corolla for $12,000, spend $3 per GALLON for gasoline, buy a Big Mac for $0.99 and a gallon of milk for $2 and a loaf of bread for $0.70.
So a higher standard of living can be maintained in the USA.
Oh - and remember that the South African chap pays about 35% tax in that bracket, while the American bloke will probably be able to drop into an 18 or 20% bracket with creative tax planning.
Now you can see how the tables are drastically changed for long term experienced IT pros in the US baking $80 or $90,000 salaries - or even $125,000 to $175,000 if they can stay contracting at $100/hour rates.
The real money (for non-Lawyer and CEO's) is being made by high volume sales people in various professional fields. It is not unusual for salespeople in the enterprise software, hardware and professional services arena to make $200,000 a year in commissions.
Of course we have not even discussed all the "small business" owners that are in the Million Dollar + per year turn over bracket. Profits are often in the $500,000 and above range.
This is just the observations of a layman and gray could cast some scholarly light on the meaning of it all, but people would be foolish to assume that everyone in the USA is a blue collar $4/hr worker living in poverty ;)
A couple things..
...annual would just be monthly multiplied by 12... ;) :P
I'm not maths challenged, but i am more accustomed to discussion of £per annum :wink:
i.e. i say that is a £50k job, rather than the guys is on a £24.04 per hour based on a 40hr week, working 52 weeks per year :P :wink:
5vz-fe
10-06-2005, 03:13 PM
We have smiliar pay as US (but paid in CAD :( )
However, as disucssed before, our tax rates sux big time.
graywolf624
10-06-2005, 07:14 PM
Purchasing power parity.. Studies of how much a big mac costs across the world being a good example. Its not just how much you make, but how much you can get for that money.
dingo
10-06-2005, 07:31 PM
I make $750,000 per year.....
The average salary out of uni would be around $AU 40K/yr in Australia.....but of course there can be alot of variation.
blinkmeat
10-06-2005, 07:50 PM
^^
Wow - I don't believe you.
MadMax
10-06-2005, 07:56 PM
just wait for donny to post some ridiculous claim :lol:
A couple things..
...annual would just be monthly multiplied by 12... ;) :P
Not always... there's the Christmas and the summer special wage... so when I say that the usual wage here for a fresh graduate is about 22000-24000 euros a year... it's 24000 divided by 14 to get the monthly wage :D
That's the foolish way to go ;) counting bonus as base.
You really should view it as 1800 x 12 = 21600 gross, with a 20% bonus potential.. ;) of 25200 +- per year total.
After all, bonsu could be withheld due to under performance, regulation change etc etc ;)
i work in a restaurant, and i for one can say not just the waiters/busboys/bartenders but pretty much every single person if its not a chainbusiness...majorty of your money is cash...you get very little in the check...and alot in a envelope...or maybe its just my place that does this(but i know some others who work in different business that are similar to that)...and no christmas bonus/or any bonus(owners a cheap fuck)..not sure if my 2cents are worth much but it add's as a post :D
racer_f50
10-07-2005, 01:05 AM
Here's what i remember reading on a flying on campus a couple years ago, referring to average starting salaries of engineeers:
-Chemical Engineering: $50,000
-Electrical Engineering: $48,000
those were the top two, so they're all I remember, especially being a ChemE major :)
What that doesn't mention is that many chemical engineers get promoted quickly, and start making over $100,000 per year after maybe 3 years in the industry. Bring on the Ferraris (if oil is still around) :twisted:
Yablokov
10-07-2005, 02:53 AM
i make $3120 atm.
when i work full time.
is that good for 18?
Shinigami
10-07-2005, 04:27 AM
Some companies pay a 13th salary and a bonus (mine does, it's quite nice). Wouldn't an annual salary therefore be calculated as the monthly salary x 13? (you can't really count the bonus in this since it fluctuates a lot based on the performance of the company.
Switzerland has higher wages then most of the neighbouring countries. In France, I know that a pretty average salary might be 1500euro, that's like 2300chf... Yet the minimum salary in Switzerland (for most jobs) is 3500chf. But then again, we need to pay very expensive housing (mine is just under 3000chf a month) and medical insurance (I'm hardly ever sick, so I put it down to the minimum of just over 200chf, but many people pay 400-500chf for their health insurance).
Fleischmann
10-07-2005, 05:03 AM
The average here is ~500 euro with tax. It sucks major :(
Zonda11
10-07-2005, 10:09 AM
What is germany like for pay? I would love to go over there and do one of my engineering co-ops in the automotive industry. Is the compensation generally good in this country? What is the cost of living compared to NA?
Even if the pay is not that great, I may still try to go over there eventually. Just build up savings while still working for the in trouble, yet throwing money at you in bags - American car makers.
APESMA has established the APESMA Big Mac Index to compare graduate engineer salaries internationally. The index shows the number of minutes that a graduate engineer needs to work in selected countries to purchase a Big Mac™. The comparison assumes a 40 hour week.
:arrow: http://www.apesma.asn.au/students_graduates/common/big_mac_index.htm
What they also forget is that at the American Mc Donalds, your cup of Coke is a "bottomless" cup, as in free refills, and the price they show for the price shown for the South African Big Mac (according to my sister, is for the sandwich only - not the fries and drink ;)) -- the $2.54 for the US one is including large fries and a drink.
Minutes per Big Mac is also a con, since it really doesn't drive the disparity home...
Do the same exercise with hours/days/months to work for paying for a small economy car, regular colour TV set, renting a one room apartment or even paying your income tax burden.
Those are the real number that matter, the real numbers that make the difference between a life of subsistance or a life of comfort and semi-luxury.. ;)
Assuming driving to work, sleeping under a roof and not being delinquent on your taxes is the bare minimum level... :)
Some companies pay a 13th salary and a bonus (mine does, it's quite nice). Wouldn't an annual salary therefore be calculated as the monthly salary x 13? (you can't really count the bonus in this since it fluctuates a lot based on the performance of the company.
Switzerland has higher wages then most of the neighbouring countries. In France, I know that a pretty average salary might be 1500euro, that's like 2300chf... Yet the minimum salary in Switzerland (for most jobs) is 3500chf. But then again, we need to pay very expensive housing (mine is just under 3000chf a month) and medical insurance (I'm hardly ever sick, so I put it down to the minimum of just over 200chf, but many people pay 400-500chf for their health insurance).
Well, if you are going to count bonus then you Euro guys will really be sick.. ;) -- 20 to 25% is not unheard of in many large company circles. (especially the oil and gas arena... :P)
graywolf624
10-07-2005, 12:19 PM
Of course.. Its not perfect.. Theres all sorts of issues, including distance of the distribution chain. Its just one example, one that has alot of information since you can get that big mac almost everywhere and unlike most products it doesnt change in most countries. In general you would take a market basket of products(translation: a collection of average products that people consume world wide) and average them out. That being said, I don't know about particular studies of an entire basket, the big mac one is famous.
nthfinity
10-07-2005, 12:27 PM
Well, if you are going to count bonus then you Euro guys will really be sick.. -- 20 to 25% is not unheard of in many large company circles. (especially the oil and gas arena... )
not as of late, but in the past 20% was a low end bonus for my dad, where his upper limit was nearing 50% back in the mid 90's.
thats usually where our new cars/land purchasses came from
bmagni
10-07-2005, 12:31 PM
APESMA has established the APESMA Big Mac Index to compare graduate engineer salaries internationally. The index shows the number of minutes that a graduate engineer needs to work in selected countries to purchase a Big Mac™. The comparison assumes a 40 hour week.
:arrow: http://www.apesma.asn.au/students_graduates/common/big_mac_index.htm
As far as i know the Big Mac index is to compare differences in prices, infaltion and so on, but never on salaries... but it can be done easily
What they also forget is that at the American Mc Donalds, your cup of Coke is a "bottomless" cup, as in free refills, and the price they show for the price shown for the South African Big Mac (according to my sister, is for the sandwich only - not the fries and drink ;)) -- the $2.54 for the US one is including large fries and a drink.
Minutes per Big Mac is also a con, since it really doesn't drive the disparity home...
Do the same exercise with hours/days/months to work for paying for a small economy car, regular colour TV set, renting a one room apartment or even paying your income tax burden.
Those are the real number that matter, the real numbers that make the difference between a life of subsistance or a life of comfort and semi-luxury.. ;)
Assuming driving to work, sleeping under a roof and not being delinquent on your taxes is the bare minimum level... :)
well the "Latte index" was introduced like 2 years ago, comparng prices from Starbuck's latte ;) so there you have one different variable to compare, so you dont have to deal with this discrepancies, lattes are sold the same everywhere.
I just wonder if is a tall, grande or venti :P
graywolf624
10-07-2005, 12:36 PM
As far as i know the Big Mac index is to compare differences in prices, infaltion and so on, but never on salaries... but it can be done easily
You are correct in the purpose. To look at the real price/quality of living. That being said it is quite useful with a little work to look at salaries.
Wutputt
10-07-2005, 03:43 PM
A couple things..
...annual would just be monthly multiplied by 12... ;) :P
Not always... there's the Christmas and the summer special wage... so when I say that the usual wage here for a fresh graduate is about 22000-24000 euros a year... it's 24000 divided by 14 to get the monthly wage :D
That's the foolish way to go ;) counting bonus as base.
You really should view it as 1800 x 12 = 21600 gross, with a 20% bonus potential.. ;) of 25200 +- per year total.
After all, bonsu could be withheld due to under performance, regulation change etc etc ;)
It depends a bit on the local legislation and your contract. As far as I know, the interpretation of a bonus differs in North America compared to the European countries. The bonuses in your country are more variable, the advantage is the fact you can really earn a lot more if all goes well. But if it doesn't, there isn't any bonus. Over here, the bonuses are more fixed. Even if the company doesn’t do well or you don't perform 100% as expected you still get your bonus (unless of course you fuck up completely, but in that case you're fired as well, like everywhere else in the world). Though there are the bonuses you're familiar with as well, but they are never as variable nor as high.
For instance in most continental European countries, the wage is expressed per month. But almost everybody gets paid for 13 months (this is a way for the companies to get around some regulations). On top of that you can get a bonus at the end of the year, but those things are pretty fixed in most cases.
So depending on the situation in the company you work for, the monthly wage has to be multiplied by 13 to 14 to get the annual wage. On which in a minority of the cases you can get a variable bonus on. It maybe makes no sense at all, but that's the way things go around here. It would be more logical if the wages were expressed per year like in the UK or the USA, but I can't change it :P
jon_s
10-07-2005, 04:26 PM
Just for a flavour, a trainee solicitor working in a small regional firm will start on around 14k gross. They will have a rough limit of 40k after 5 years post qualification (so after 7 years work).
A large international law firm will start on 30k gross and depending on the firm will get roughly a 10k pay rise a year for 5 years. So after 7 years roughly 100k gross.
When you are talking a partner of a small regional firm, the income will probably be around the 70-100k mark. A partner in a international law firm can earn upto 2.8 million a year including bonus (current highest paid solicitor).
A interesting (for me) site setting out a little about the major firm in the UK and what the solicitors as well as partners earn can be found here: (inside info -> city firms)
http://www.rollonfriday.com/
davide
10-07-2005, 06:39 PM
I work a little now for my dad, getting 95 sek / hour, roughly 9 Euros / hour.
Getting around 1000 Euros after the taxes have been drawn. I pay 30% tax.
My dad, getting around 60.000 Euros / year, pay almost 50% tax.
Which is insane in my book of references...
I work a little now for my dad, getting 95 sek / hour, roughly 9 Euros / hour.
Getting around 1000 Euros after the taxes have been drawn. I pay 30% tax.
My dad, getting around 60.000 Euros / year, pay almost 50% tax.
Which is insane in my book of references...
So you get taxed on a 12000 Euro salary per year?
I would have figured Europe to be like the US and have a zero tax bracket for very low income people.
30% tax... OMFG... ;)
gucom
10-07-2005, 07:34 PM
here in holland we also have a 0% tax rate for ppl with a very low income, but if u work full time at minimum wage ur already above that(but then again minimum wage is a bit higher than it is in the US)
Jabba
10-07-2005, 07:42 PM
All this talk of food has given me a sudden craven for some potato wedges...sadly at 12:40 am its just going to be a dream for me tonight :|
graywolf624
10-07-2005, 07:45 PM
here in holland we also have a 0% tax rate for ppl with a very low income, but if u work full time at minimum wage ur already above that(but then again minimum wage is a bit higher than it is in the US)
Very few people that are legal US citizens make the minimum wage (about 12000 usd a year).. Even as a 14 year old just starting working I was almost double minimum wage. Hell the managers at the local fast food joint in my state make 35000 usd a year. Granted we have a higher cos of living then the south.. Just south of where I went to college a house costs about a 1/5 of what one does here...
sadly at 12:40 am its just going to be a dream for me tonight
Meanwhile 5 hrs away It is 8 pm. Did I mention how much conference calls with the UK and sweden screw up my work hours?
Jabba
10-07-2005, 07:46 PM
Hell the managers at the local fast food joint here make 35000 usd a year.
Please dont mention anything more about food :twisted:
SFDMALEX
10-07-2005, 07:52 PM
Well I work part time but I do peice work. Meaning I get paid per job. Sometimes I spend an hour on job and get paid 35$ for it. Sometimes I spend 5min and get 15$, sometimes I spend 2 hours and still get 35$.
Afaik this is not common, and I dont know anyone else who works under such "contract".
Anonymous
10-07-2005, 08:56 PM
All this talk of food has given me a sudden craven for some potato wedges...sadly at 12:40 am its just going to be a dream for me tonight :|
no 24hr ASDA nearby then :P well after a night drinking vodka i've jsut cooked sausage sandwichs for my mates before they went on their way mmmmmmm :D tho i think i remmeber you're a veggie so that wouldn't make your mouth water ;lol:
here in holland we also have a 0% tax rate for ppl with a very low income, but if u work full time at minimum wage ur already above that(but then again minimum wage is a bit higher than it is in the US)
Very few people that are legal US citizens make the minimum wage (about 12000 usd a year).. Even as a 14 year old just starting working I was almost double minimum wage. Hell the managers at the local fast food joint in my state make 35000 usd a year. Granted we have a higher cos of living then the south.. Just south of where I went to college a house costs about a 1/5 of what one does here...
sadly at 12:40 am its just going to be a dream for me tonight
Meanwhile 5 hrs away It is 8 pm. Did I mention how much conference calls with the UK and sweden screw up my work hours?
BUt still - at $24,000 you would be very near to 0% tax after allowable deductions - especially if you are trying to raise a family or educate yourself.
:)
Besides which, supertax bracket in the US is 30%... a far cry from the 50 to 60% in many foreign markets.
50% tax, super expensive cars, housing, food, gasoline - and all you get to show for it is free medical and unemplyment insurance... I am still not convinced the "Social Welfare State" is not a complete crock of shit - unless you are just going to sit around and leech off the system - which such a system encourages. :)
graywolf624
10-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Choir= me..
You = preaching..
The comments were with regards gucoms comments re minimum wage.. It honestly makes things look worse then they are. Your right, at a 20000 dollar a year youll most likely pay no taxes.
SFDMALEX
10-07-2005, 09:57 PM
Knowing quite a few people who work in the States you cant compare it to Canada.
In the States you get paid. A guy I know works as an Electronic Engineer for Kodak and makes 80 000+, his wife assitant Manager at some store makes something like 40 000+, he pays jack shit for car insurance and is building a new house, buying his kids cars and living the life.
In Canada, if your not Canadian you get paid shit no matter what you do, car insurance is rediculous, houses in Toronto have mad prices...
From what I see, in the states you can work at a walmart and you can still afford a mortgage and a car.
They like to pay there, here if its not your insurance company stealing your money and its your employer.
nthfinity
10-07-2005, 10:22 PM
From what I see, in the states you can work at a walmart and you can still afford a mortgage and a car.
They like to pay there, here if its not your insurance company stealing your money and its your employer.
i worked for wal marts direct competitor for over 3 years, and i can tell you a few things about the inaccuracy of that statement.
under management, the highest paid employees are in the Cash Office, or Cashiers/head cashier (in my case, Service Coordinator)
i was topped off, and couldn't make any more money... 11.50/hour+.25/hr. SC premium.
basically, take home each week was about 330 after taxes
that is enough to afford car insurance, hobbies, car payment+gas,(savings for tuition) and shared rent...not enough for a mortgage. health insurance is automatically deducted.
sompe people who were at the store under the old system could make as much as 14/hour could marginally afford a singlewide/dubble wide payment, and an economy car supporting at least 1 child.
i dont really concider a dubble wide much of a mortgage, as most dont own land, but rent space.
no bonuses
Choir= me..
You = preaching..
The comments were with regards gucoms comments re minimum wage.. It honestly makes things look worse then they are. Your right, at a 20000 dollar a year youll most likely pay no taxes.
Yeah - I meant to quote his post not your reply to his reply ;) hehehe.
SFDMALEX
10-07-2005, 10:25 PM
that is enough to afford car insurance, hobbies, car payment+gas,(savings for tuition) and shared rent...not enough for a mortgage. health insurance is automatically deducted.
Thats much more then someone who makes 11$/hour here can do :wink:
Here 11$/hour will get a person rent and food. Maybe you'll have something left for a pack of condoms, otherwise run the hospital and get some.
that is enough to afford car insurance, hobbies, car payment+gas,(savings for tuition) and shared rent...not enough for a mortgage. health insurance is automatically deducted.
Thats much more then someone who makes 11$/hour here can do :wink:
Here 11$/hour will get a person rent and food. Maybe you'll have something left for a pack of condoms, otherwise run the hospital and get some.
But don't you get extra welfare in Canada if you spawn some kids? So in that case it's cheaper to forgo the condoms and buy a rock to smoke afterwards.. ;) :P
SFDMALEX
10-07-2005, 10:34 PM
But don't you get extra welfare in Canada if you spawn some kids? So in that case it's cheaper to forgo the condoms and by a rock to smoke afterwards.. ;) :P
Yeah, something like 200$ a month.
System here is shit mate.
Here you can sit on your ass and do nothing and get to eat, sleep fuck and have a roof over your head.
All the money going to "free healthcare" and bums who feed off welfare checks.
Its so liberal its sickening.
graywolf624
10-07-2005, 10:40 PM
11.50 also happens to be more then double minimum wage..
Considering the tax rebates youd get under todays tax system(meaning you pay 0 in taxes) 40 hrs a week 52 days a year nets you 23920.
That sure as hell is enough for a morgage, as long as unlike your example your not a single parent paying a morgage and taking care of a kid (a seperate issue altogether). In a 2 parent home thats 40000 a year, not bad at all. Not enough for much extra and youd have to settle for a 10 year old car, but its done every day by millions of americans, its called middle class.
In a adult without child its also enough for a smaller house. You have to remember that unlike you the person would be working 40 hrs a week and there house would have a cost equal to that same rent(a morgage is over 30 years and if you dont buy the taj mahal its usually equivelent to rent in my experience).
Back in college as a single guy I lived off of 10-15k a year paying rent in an apartment so don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. Is it fun, hell no.. But ya do what ya gotta do to get by, and judging by my grandmothers stories I could live off 5 k a year and be better off then her generation.
Hand outs take taxes.. ;) I'd rather pay less tax than fund someone elses education ;)
Not quite - but that's my general opinion.
graywolf624
10-08-2005, 04:01 PM
Don't you have some general study grants for all the students? Here the state pays you about 500€ max per month for the rent and living while you're studying. While that money hasn't been raised very much lately and studying has become more expencive very many student's have to work part time while they're studying.
Only if your a minority or your parents are below middle class. Unfortunately at the time of schooling my parents were going through a divorce and my father had the first job hed had since I was 10.. In effect we had no money since he didnt pay a dime but because it took 3 years for the divorce to finalize I got just enough aide for books (mostly thanks to a small scholarship.. My parents combined salaries even today seperate is still middle class, alone it was lower middle class. I m not far from making more then either one of them after a year and a half of work.). Though even with your 500.. that would cover books for a year.
I have to disagree with you RC. Just about the only socialist program I am for is education. Im for giving people the means to compete and construct new technology for the future.
I have to disagree with you RC. Just about the only socialist program I am for is education. Im for giving people the means to compete and construct new technology for the future.
Not I.
There appears to be a lot of abuse and maniplutaion of the system. Low and no interest and forgivable loans are about as far as I am willing to go.
graywolf624
10-08-2005, 04:37 PM
There appears to be a lot of abuse and maniplutaion of the system. Low and no interest and forgivable loans are about as far as I am willing to go.
Id go so far as free education for all.. just you pay your own room and board. Im a firm fan of technological change.. It means as a poor person Id be better off then todays rich person 50 years from now.. I cant wait for my plasma tv and ferrari like car..
But you need to maintain some control and incentive, so people don't "cash" in on the income potential of such education systems.
Perhaps a system where the student never gets any actual money - they just get entry. It sounds like what you are suggesting.
graywolf624
10-08-2005, 04:59 PM
Perhaps a system where the student never gets any actual money - they just get entry. It sounds like what you are suggesting.
Exactly its all tuition.. Kind of an extension of the existing public school system, but with a major adjustment in how its done to fix the issues. (read still competition to get in, actual standards in education, ect.)
Some system that makes sure you meet a continiued minimum standard to maintian entollment.
A system that punished immoral, illegal and otherwise corrupt behaviour with expulsion.
Military school.. :P ;) hehehe
graywolf624
10-08-2005, 05:09 PM
lol.. I hear west point is nice, a friend of mine teaches computer science there;)
SFDMALEX
10-08-2005, 06:32 PM
Perhaps a system where the student never gets any actual money - they just get entry. It sounds like what you are suggesting.
Exactly its all tuition.. Kind of an extension of the existing public school system, but with a major adjustment in how its done to fix the issues. (read still competition to get in, actual standards in education, ect.)
Well thats how it is in Ukraine. Education is free. You do pay for your dorm and food though. Dorm costs something like 40$ a year so thats not an issue. And books are provided by the Universities.
So everyone has equal opportunity at studying what they want, rich or poor.
You see at least we got the education thing going right, no if only the Americans did a friendly invasion and got rid of the oligarchs :lol:
no if only the Americans did a friendly invasion and got rid of the oligarchs :lol:
This can be arranged.. :)
antonioledesma
10-08-2005, 09:01 PM
right now... I'm with 1k usd per month less taxes, social security, etc.
so it could be 850usd per month, 8 hours worked per day, 5 days a week.
It isn't bad, most friends are with the 800usd per month less taxes and only a few ones are above the 1k usd mark
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