Who the hell decided an engine should be this complicated?!

[deth]

W16 from the Bugatti Veyron

http://www.jabbasworld.net/photopost/data/501/708w16_final_1600x1050.jpg

[cho_888]

i would love to take that in to my local mechanic and say i think there is a problem. any bet he wouldnt touch it with a large pole. and i wouldnt let him touch it.

[Kangaroo Boy]

I think the W series Engines are So complicated (although I only seen the W10 twin turbo engine),I hope they are very reliable.I hope I don't have to rebuild one in my life.Engines are getting a bit too complicated now days.

[SFDMALEX]

Doesnt look too compilcated, but I it looks like it got lots of Turbos, lots. I think Im seeing 3. Does this one have 4?

[jon_s]

Holy crap that is a big engine.....any idea of its weight??

[Johns]

was that shit hand built or machines?

[deth]

probably hand built....considering the # that they're gonna sell, it probably isnt cost efficient to get all the tooling to have an automated assembly line.

yes, it has 4 turbos....2 are visible, the other 2 should be mirror image.

[Ziploc]

wow.

[Chaos in 1983!]

that shit looks really complicated...

[tkach]

your all morons serously its not that horrficly complex their is nothing truly new in that block. you have varible valve timming thats been around for a long time and no honda did not invent it. the only new thing about the block is the w layout its slightly more complex then just 2 v formations slapped togehter but somobdy who isnt halfway retarded or who has accauly worked on a car. can figure that motor out. god damn bunch of stupids. and their is 4 turbos.

[deth]

damn tkach, u're right! now that i look at this again its so simple! i dont know what i was thinking earlier... :oops: I have no idea why the brightest minds at the volkswagen group are struggling to make this motor work. i mean really, did they really have to delay the launch of the car because of stupid issues like cooling, and a semiautomatic 7 speed gear box etc? i mean obviously you could have designed the whole thing in your sleep, what with your cornell mechatronics Phd and your stanford CS degree! only problem is that you didnt actually graduate from either because your english was horribly sub-par :roll: . in any case, they really should have hired you instead of that whole team of experienced engineers. too bad during the interview they thought u were too much of know-it-all ass. I for one bow down to you superior intellect and knowledge!

ps. sorry they didn't hire you.
pps. if you hadn't noticed i'm being sarcastic
ppps. fuck off :fist:

[Jabba]

in any case, they really should have hired you instead of that whole team of experienced engineers. too bad during the interview they thought u were too much of know-it-all ass. I for one bow down to you superior intellect and knowledge!


OWNED 8)

[jon_s]

PMSL, quality

[Sachmo12345]

just walk away from this one tkach

[draak666]

tkach, you're right, but take it easy, dude. 0X You're reacting like a girl having her periods.

[Kangaroo Boy]

your all morons serously its not that horrficly complex their is nothing truly new in that block. you have varible valve timming thats been around for a long time and no honda did not invent it. the only new thing about the block is the w layout its slightly more complex then just 2 v formations slapped togehter but somobdy who isnt halfway retarded or who has accauly worked on a car. can figure that motor out. god damn bunch of stupids. and their is 4 turbos.

Have you ever rebuilt an engine at all?You wouldn't know what a Torque rench would be or how to use it.Do you know how to Map an engine?Do you know how to do valve timing adjustments?Do you know what TDC and BDC means?Do you know how to hook up the lubrication system to the turbos?Till you do,you don't know how hard a engine like that is too work on,.Its more complicated then Quad Turbo Diesel Engine.

[graywolf624]

That engine is decently complicated.

On the other hand, so is the new gt. what was ford thinking?:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/images/photo_gallery/ph_gt_popup_12.jpg

The engine above is that of the ford gt. The engine weighs 700+ pounds, and just look at the number of pulleys. That many pulleys is just asking for belt problems. According to hotrod magazine there are 18 total pulleys. I only count 10, still very much disturbing.

That all being said, no one in their right mind repairs their supercar on their own. Heck even mercedes has special mechanics for their cars.

KISS hasn't been a design concern for supercars for quite some time.

[Kangaroo Boy]

They where thinking of placing that Engine into a BA Ford Falcon,and bring back the GTHO.

[dis3as3d]

Ouch! You need some ice for that BURN?

[tkach]

acculy shitheads i have rebuilt engines. first of fuckwads the problem with the cooling systems on that motor is not on the motor itself the its the horrficly bad design of the car they hid the neinge away and put tiny little shitbox raditors in it. the fact that four turbo chargers are on it to would create more heat . honestly im not very impressed by an engine that needs that large of a displacment 8 liters and four turbo chargers to produce that much hp. ive seen skylines do it with a inline 6 2.6 litler twin turbo motor so as we all know vw's are crap. and so are their enginers. also shit for brains the transmission has nothing to do with the motor. and padel shifters with computer controled dog boxes are for bitches. im sorry the veyron motor is crap just like the car is. and for your info shitheads im a mechnic in the miltary so i know what the fuck im doing when it comes down to talking about cars im not some stupid little punk who has an intake on his civic and rolls around thinking he is the shit god damn retards.

[graywolf624]

Tkach, I was going to stay out of this assured flame war, but frankly you need to learn a lesson. As for the Veryon, I will preclude my opinion of the car until it is actually released (if it ever is). I agree with your points about the transmission and cooling system, though I don't have a damn clue where the discussion came from since it wasn't in this thread. That being said you need to leave your attitude at the door. You just freaked out and frankly when you act that way (whether you are or not) it makes you come off as some little punk. Not to mention the overabundance of typos (If it were minimal fine, we all do that, but your hurting my eyes here man). If you want people to consider your opinion and actually listen to you, bring more tech and cut out the trash. The best smack down is tech.
Otherwise people like myself, who don't even have a dog in this fight, are going to start to ignore you.

[tkach]

the tech is simple this enigne is the creation of nothing but a bunch of computer nerds who know nothing about cars and wish to do everything the hard way with the least profomance for the dollar lets make a simple comparison here. we will compared based on simular displacment because i can think of no other way to compare the veyron with other cars cause its so radically dumb. so we will compare it to the dodge viper also an 8 liter motor.
Viper Veyron
cylinders 10 16
number of cams 1 4
number of vavles 20 64
redline 6100 rpm 6800
hp 520 1001
torque 540 922
curb weight 3000 lds cant find out know its alot
drive rear all
transmission t-56 6 speed non functining 7 speed with paddle shift

now lets think here okay the viper has half the hp no biggie hennesy has a twin turbo version with over 1000hp and cost less the they veyron and is more realibile you see all this complex crap is just a non working technology show piece. at that its not much of a supercar. just because a car is fast dont make it a supercar. just because you have four turbos dont make you a supercar. it just proves that your engiers suck because they need 4 turbos and a bunch of other unessacary crap to make power a big complex vavletrain and a stupid piston arragment. please sombody tell me why a w it makes no sense to me first off 16 cylnders is dumb. 2 its wide its just as tall and wide as a v8 . so their is no advantage to the arrgement in space saving unless you wanted to make a inline 16 a v would have been easier oh wait cadalic did that and theirs didnt have four turbos and made over 1000hp too wow ! now i think i have proved my point this motor is crap the people who desgined it are overpaid and have no clue what they are doing its not efficant at all. i know its powerful. but its also pointless. and not very impressive because of the amount of carp varible valve timming and so on ive seen push rod v8 motors with full rocker systems rev up past 8000 rpm at that their stroke to bore ratio was much higher then this motor with no varible valve timming . no overhead cams no fancy intake system. people should get back to basics and perfect them before moving on to this. link to some info on the caddy 16 i know its displacment is larger 13 liter 5 larger then the veyron but rember it shuts off some cylinders while crusing and only uses all 16 when nessacary oh and its pretty simple http://www.fast-autos.net/cadillac/cadillacsixteen.html

[deth]

I'd like to suggest that you invest in a good dictionary, or at least a good thesaurus. If you had one you would see:

complex, complicated n. Having parts so interconnected as to make the whole perplexing (I know you're missing your dictionary so I'll help you out. Perplexing = confusing).

un•der•stand To perceive and comprehend the nature and significance of; grasp.

If you take a moment to ponder these facts you'll surely see that because something is complex does not mean it's not understood. I don't know where you managed to get that from, but in any case it seems as if you agree with me.

you see all this complex crap is just a non working technology(sp?:should be technological) show piece(showpiece is one word).

So does this admission that this motor is complex indicate that you as well have fallen victim to not understanding? (This is a rhetorical question. You aren't supposed to respond unless you'd like to take you IQ down another 10 points)

If you had been paying attention reading this thread you would also probably realize that the subject is 'Who the hell decided an engine should be this complicated?!'. Let’s once go over that in our heads for a second.

*insert Jeopardy 'thinking music'*

Might it be that I said this because I don't think it should be this complicated? Could that be it? Surely not! But lo and behold, what else could it mean? That perhaps I don't understand how the engine works? Oh...wait.....we've been over that haven't we? Complex doesn't equal not understand (make a mental note).

it just proves that your engiers(sp?) suck because they need 4 turbos and a bunch of other unessacary (sp?) crap to make power (you're missing conjunction here, likely 'with')a big complex (there you go using that word again)vavletrain and a stupid piston arragment(sp?). please sombody (sp?) tell me why a w (I have no idea what you were trying to express with ‘a w’) it makes no sense to me first off 16 cylnders (sp?) is dumb.

It's nice to know that I have engineers (this is the correct spelling), but I digress. Thank you for proving my point so succinctly. "'Who the hell decided an engine should be this complicated?!" = I think this engine shouldn't be so complex. Which it would seem is exactly what you're trying to prove to me!

So in closing, thank you for you wasted time and effort (I know how hard it was for you to minimize your typos), but please come back next time you have an argument that doesn't support me, while tearing down yours at the same time :D

Have a nice day :lol:

[jon_s]

Nicely done deth :wink: Could not have put it better myslef! 8)

[fedezyl]

Just to add something else to the thread, probably the 4 turbo configuration is in an effort to reduce turbo lag, 4 small ones instead of a 2 big ones...
The W16 configuration is still more compact than the a V16 or a I16 configuration, in length at least, without being much bigger in width than a V16 configuration..

And last, but very important, even though tkatch you may have rebuilt engines and worked on them, fixing engines is a totally different thing as building them, you not only need the knowledge to design them, but you also need to take into consideration other things as materials, vibrations, design of valves, connecting rods, piston head, cylinders, etc, etc, down even to the type of bolts and nuts to use in each part of the engine, of course you need a level of understanding to fix an engine, but the level of understanding needed to create one is far greater than the average home garage mechanic that most of us are...
If not St-anger is the guy to ask as far as what being a car engineer is..

[deth]

all very good points fedezyl, i want thinking of them myself, but decided that tkach had already given me enough to work with. just to continug you point about the w16 being as long as a v8, and marginally wider, the configuration enables the designers to move that engine closer to the centre of the wheel base. this in turn gives the car better weight distribution and therefore better handling :mrgreen:

[tkach]

deth it seems that i rpeoved my point so well that you had to pick on my typing skills. by the way you euro pieces of shit fuck off and learn somthing about cars before you start posting. your not worht my ti9me and if for some reason i ever catch you in person ill be sure to stomp the shit out of you.

[fedezyl]

deth it seems that i rpeoved my point so well that you had to pick on my typing skills. by the way you euro pieces of shit fuck off and learn somthing about cars before you start posting. your not worht my ti9me and if for some reason i ever catch you in person ill be sure to stomp the shit out of you.



LMAO!!! What a silly little person you are, thanks for proving our point that you don't know crap about cars, much else about being a mature individual, and talking about that, you are about 14 aren't you? did you get your learners permit yet? or you are still riding a bicycle??

Cheers mate, we may not know that much about cars, but at least we are allways open to learn a thing or two and exchange ideas and points of view in a civilized manner...

[tkach]

fedezyl i tried to act civil but dipshits around here dont understand what that is. deth is a moron. and i am not 14 im much older then that. im sick and tired of this shit i make one little comment that the motor is crap like rotarys are crap and all vws are crap and people here have to be retarded stubborn assholes and not listen to my points. at that the ford gt is a good motor so screw that shithead. i guess an american just isnt ment to get along with euro trash.

[graywolf624]

"ford gt is a good motor so screw that shithead"

hahahaha.. Funny, I am an american and my knowledge about that particular engine says that reliability may be questionable (way to many pulleys, 700 lb engine: thats as much as the original 427 in the original gt40. Look at the weight of other engines, the ls1 for instance weighs 4xx lbs. The Ls1 stroked to 427 ,the c5r engine basically, doesn't weigh anywhere near 700 lbs either and they push out much higher bhp). (youll probably also find its way heavier then a viper engine) Especially seeing as it's based on an engine with notorious crankcase problems from a company with issues with their last performance engine(*cough* cobra).
Far more educated individuals then you or I have weighed in on the gt engine and the general consensus is that the engine may have reliability problems. Furthermore it has been concluded that the engine may have reliability issues.
Not only have I, my friends who work as mechanical engineers (including a former Ford engineer), and some other members of various car boards confirmed this; so has a national magazine, hotrod magazine. So go ahead, continue to talk crap. Whine whine whine. Straighten up and learn to act civil and then maybe people will take you seriously.

"retarded stubborn assholes"

If retarded stubborn is either a) saying the same thing as you but you not having the eyes to see it.
b) Proving you wrong but your too damn stupid to see it.
Then frankly I guess most of us are stubborn. I tried to be nice but enough is enough.

[dis3as3d]

Seriously tkach just walk away this argument is retarded and this topic should be locked.

[tkach]

my point is wether the gt motor is good or not. in my opinion it is and is a great building platform. like most ford motors. your ford engineer friend should be able to tell you that. i am however saying the w-16 quad turbo is not that hard to understand in concept but you dont need that kind of motor to produce that kind of power because not only is it expensive it dont work either.

[graywolf624]

See but your completely off what other people are saying. No one is saying they dont understand the concept. They are saying the design is needlessly complicated and would be a pain in the a&& to work on. No one is having problems with the concept that I can tell, I sure don't.

[PATo355]

bah ... i wanted to know where tkach was educated ... or he wasnt ? i bet for the 2nd one ...

[fedezyl]

Che...como les ganamos el domingo a ustedes chilenos...jajaja 2 a 1 !! jaja

Sorry, a football joke..:D

Anyways this type of person never stays for to long as they find out rather quickly that we don't respond to a flame war.. :wink:

[PATo355]

Che...como les ganamos el domingo a ustedes chilenos...jajaja 2 a 1 !! jaja

Sorry, a football joke..:D



Si ... fuck you !!!! maldito partido y ahora perdimos con paraguay , asi no llegamos nunca al mundial :|

[fedezyl]

jajaja, did you see today's game against brazil?? (casi nos comimos un carro pero terminamos 3 a 3, casi les ganamos si no fuera por el puto de ronaldo, estaban como locos los brazucas, jajaja) let's see what the Brazilians of JW say tomorrow...:D

[maalox]

Some of these posts look like they were rejected from supercars.net. Thankfully that kind of general retardedness has never made it here--until now. Congratulations on your special honour tkach. Really, no one is trying to argue here; we all just like to talk bout cars n' shit. Keep your loyalties or personal beefs (rotarys, VWs), but try and keep an open mind and let other people say something without automatically being "a bunch of stupids." In the end it's just a post on some forum.

As for the engine, it looks monumentally complex. Honestly I don't know what they were thinking--I guess they had to better the buffoonery originally introduced in the EB110 :mrgreen:. Still, if they get it up and running it's going to be one hell of a something, although I'd still take my Enzo/Carrera GT ;).

[Kangaroo Boy]

and for your info shitheads im a mechnic in the miltary so i know what the fuck im doing when it comes down to talking about cars im not some stupid little punk who has an intake on his civic and rolls around thinking he is the shit god damn retards.
Your a mechanic,LMAO
Your in the Army,LMAO
Your Fake.
You should become a Comedian becauce your so funny..lol. :lol:

[TT]

I already wanted to close the topic, but tried to let it go a little more... thanks to tkach it is now!