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RC45
08-08-2005, 11:03 PM
...interesting who was actually dominating... :P

Could the Z06 driver be better than all those exotic drivers?

I leave it up to you to decide... :P

http://photos.imageevent.com/crazyducati916/illegal/ECrun2hamptons.wmv

kenneth2000
08-08-2005, 11:25 PM
Interesting ......

Not to shabby ... :)

sikx5
08-09-2005, 12:17 AM
Thanks for the link RC, Great Video, Some awesome Ferrari footage there!

The driver of the F-50 looked quite young too!

Well done to the vette there, but im guessing its not stock standard like most of the other cars there...He had good control of the vette too, both hands on the wheel. :)

bmagni
08-09-2005, 12:18 AM
havent downloaded it, but i bet it has to have something pro-vette , u woulndt post it otherwise


The driver of the F-50 looked quite young too!


if its the hamptons drive im thinking of, it mught be budags brother :D

sikx5
08-09-2005, 12:21 AM
havent downloaded it, but i bet it has to have something pro-vette , u woulndt post it otherwise


The driver of the F-50 looked quite young too!


if its the hamptons drive im thinking of, it mught be budags brother :D

hahahaha yeah i just saw that topic right now, Nice dad to share his toys 8)

RC45
08-09-2005, 12:35 AM
Thanks for the link RC, Great Video, Some awesome Ferrari footage there!

The driver of the F-50 looked quite young too!

Well done to the vette there, but im guessing its not stock standard like most of the other cars there...He had good control of the vette too, both hands on the wheel. :)

Actually that Vette has the same mods I do... longtube headers, intake and catback - the 2003 cam gives him 20hp on me.

390rwhp - and many of those other cars also have similar mods - exhaust and intake, the simplest mods.

You don't have to explain it away, the car is just a lot better than folks give it credit for. ;)

The driver also knows the 911TT and Gallardo and 360CS drivers pretty well - and has he ahs reported that's pretty much how all their encounters end.

He always walks the 360CS's hard, runs neck and neck with the 911TT's and the Gallardo and him are always sharing wins... sometimes he walks past - sometimes the G-Car gets one over on him.

The Diablo is also somewhat predicatable - but of course keep running and the Diablo will show the Z, CS, 911TT and Gallardo its 200mph heals as well.

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 12:47 AM
Cool vid, odd how the 911TT seems to be about the same speed were usualy the TT gets beaten by the 360s when things get passed 100mph :?

JoeHahn
08-09-2005, 12:51 AM
Cool vid, odd how the 911TT seems to be about the same speed were usualy the TT gets beaten by the 360s when things get passed 100mph :?

Weren't they Stradale's the Corvette raced? Still couldnt edge the stock Turbo S though

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 12:53 AM
/\/\/\Exactly. 360Ms take the edge at high speed over the 996TTs, and these are CS's which are even faster and they cant do the same as the TT? Doesnt make sense :wink: Dunno what the CS guys did, not that I care, but I just find it strange.

RC45
08-09-2005, 12:59 AM
Spoken like true fan-boys that haven't seen their "hero's" in action in real life ;)

There you have it on film how in a real sitation (not magazine racing) how things go down when the pedal hits the metal, yet STILL we have denial... ;)

The numbers don't always tell it how it is on the road. :P

But I think this video just proves that magazine numbers as close as these cars are means who ever gets the jump has the race. :)

Obviously certain cars, like the Diablo have the legs to catch up and pass any of the participants there.

The runs are also impromptu ones, where folks will hesitate amybe be slow to shift, only run up and shift 500rpm before redline etc.

So - as far as being a definitive "this car beats that car - always" - of course that's not the case - what it shows is that any of those cars are capabale of delivering super-car performance with on mash of the right foot :D

In other words they are awesome fucking fun to play with. :) :twisted:

sikx5
08-09-2005, 01:07 AM
Yeah thats true. But in that footage, it looked like some of the drivers mis-shifted, i noticed when he was going at the porsche, something happend there to drop off speed so quick, then come back again.

RC45
08-09-2005, 01:08 AM
Yeah thats true. But in that footage, it looked like some of the drivers mis-shifted, i noticed when he was going at the porsche, something happend there to drop off speed so quick, then come back again.

Everytime? ;) Surely you don't mean to imply that F-Car, G-Car, L-Car and Porker drivers suck - bigtime ??? :P hehehe

nthfinity
08-09-2005, 01:10 AM
i never thought it was hard to drive a manuel 0X

although, it may be harder to drive 400 ponies all the time, as ive only done it... once :oops:

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 01:13 AM
Spoken like true fan-boys that haven't seen their "hero's" in action in real life ;)

There you have it on film how in a real sitation (not magazine racing) how things go down when the pedal hits the metal, yet STILL we have denial... ;)


D00de, there are numerous BM vids were the 360s take a big leap forward when speeds gets passed the 1/4 mile mark. Ever seen those long ass oval runs? 360s always had the edge at top speed, so take it as you want. Seeing as the 996TT and this Vette were neck to neck, and seeing how many times the TT got beat by the 360M, 360M, not CS, M, I find it strange that the Vette took such a leap forward not right off the bat, were it should from all the low end grunt but at the top, were the high revving F car should have the edge.

Its not numbers, its real footage and common sense, so again, take it as you want. No point in arguing. :wink: :)

sikx5
08-09-2005, 01:21 AM
Yeah thats true. But in that footage, it looked like some of the drivers mis-shifted, i noticed when he was going at the porsche, something happend there to drop off speed so quick, then come back again.

Everytime? ;) Surely you don't mean to imply that F-Car, G-Car, L-Car and Porker drivers suck - bigtime ??? :P hehehe

hahahaha well probably the porker driver :lol:

but everone makes mistakes. Interesting to see what would happen if a corner happened to rise up. :wink:

RC45
08-09-2005, 01:34 AM
Un-fucking believable how you fuckers are so ANTI-anything-not-Ferrari.

Every fucking excuse in the book.

Never once would you consider that maybe - just maybe, as has been said 100000000 times - Fer-fucking-rari is not the be-all and end all of the universe. :)

They can and do lose... they can be and are sometimes slow - oh and they can and are often driven by posers who couldn't go fast if strapped into a roller coaster.

:)

All those cliches you folks spout out about non-Ferrari drivers are also many times just as true about Ferrari drivers.

And give up the "oh---but it will win a turn" story... and "at least it's still a ferrari" attitude. :P

See - there are many many folks who track their cars and often run circles around F360s and 360CS's at track days.

At least for once your fan-boy lives just fucking suck it up and admit that all these cars are so equal it comes down to DRIVER every time :)

Plain and simple :)

On the day, your F-Car boys sucked the hind tit... they would be better off driving a Camry.. ;)

but everone makes mistakes. Interesting to see what would happen if a corner happened to rise up. :wink:
I am sure you are aware of the Nurburgring times for the cars as shown... look em up then come back with the answer to what would happen if a corner happened to rise up?

Wait I'll answer it for you - they will all be neck and neck - all the cars shown perform pretty much the same.

:roll: :twisted: :D

dutchmasterflex
08-09-2005, 01:44 AM
I'm sold.

if only i could get insurance for it..

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 01:45 AM
/\/\/\Thanks for showing your true self :wink: Man your easy to wind up, talk about fan boys lol.

Edit- Lastly did you read my post? Not what sikx5 is writing, my post, maybe then you'll understand why I found it odd that the 996 could keep up and the rest couldnt.

Its not even about the Vette, its about the fact that the 996TT was faster then the CS when speeds were 80mph plus. Makes absolutly no sense to me.

RC45
08-09-2005, 01:52 AM
Its not even about the Vette, its about the fact that the 996TT was faster then the CS when speeds were 80mph plus. Makes absolutly no sense to me.
I woouldn't go by BM - they have show the 360 to be faster when it seems they are just slower with certain cars. Many folks will tell how their 911TT walks the 360. It's not really that fast ;)


/\/\/\Thanks for showing your true self :wink: Man your easy to wind up, talk about fan boys lol.

See - thats' the differenc e- I am not a fan-boy - I just accept logic and proof and facts.

I love em all - but refuse to be lead on by lies and falsehoods.

:)

See - I actually believe the reality of what all those cars are capable - ALL of them - not just one or 2 of them, but all of them.

I know and accept which are faster and where they are faster - which have better top end, low end and which can stop and turn the best.

I also hwoever, am well aware of just how close cars are at thes elevels, and that a split second here or there (in other words human error) can translate into visual cues liek a car lenght.

I will repeat what I have always said -

But I think this video just proves that magazine numbers as close as these cars are means who ever gets the jump has the race.

Obviously certain cars, like the Diablo have the legs to catch up and pass any of the participants there.

The runs are also impromptu ones, where folks will hesitate amybe be slow to shift, only run up and shift 500rpm before redline etc.

So - as far as being a definitive "this car beats that car - always" - of course that's not the case - what it shows is that any of those cars are capabale of delivering super-car performance with on mash of the right foot

Unlike some people who immidiatl dismiss anything not-red and chant pathetic JC cliches - I always give credit where credit is due - but will never simply let misonformaiton and falsehoods go unchallanegd. :)

Unlike the typical fan-boy I love everything that is gasoline powered.

p.s. I'm outa here till tomorrow heheh ;)

sikx5
08-09-2005, 02:00 AM
LOL take it easy dude, im just playing with you! :lol: :twisted:

Credit is given where its due man, not because its a f-car or what..and i saw the times on ring, im just messing with you. :wink:

Edit:
And also as you said man, these cars are all on equal on many levels and the slighest hesitation can see a car behind or infornt. I'll watch the vid(awesome footage) again after i finish my assignment, but the only car i remember was the porsche going really hard and the diablo was starting to strech its legs but there was traffic for the vette driver.

astonmartinandy
08-09-2005, 02:37 AM
Well credit where credit is due; Hats off to the performance of the ZO6.

I must admit I am surprised by the outcome of some of those races, but you can't deny that the ZO6 more than held it's own.

What pisses me off most is why the people that spend the time to put these videos together drown out all of the real music provided by the stars of the show! Why play "smack my b*tch up" instead of roaring V8s battling eachother :?

RC45
08-09-2005, 09:11 AM
Well credit where credit is due; Hats off to the performance of the ZO6.

I must admit I am surprised by the outcome of some of those races, but you can't deny that the ZO6 more than held it's own.

What pisses me off most is why the people that spend the time to put these videos together drown out all of the real music provided by the stars of the show! Why play "smack my b*tch up" instead of roaring V8s battling eachother :?

It's a good thing they didn't run to 180mph- I mean the Z06 would have lost big time hey - considering it can only go to 175.. :P

Yeah - and we have asked the bloke for non-music remixesof all his vids, but sadly it seems that this is what's cool to the east coast crwod... ;) :P

LOL take it easy dude, im just playing with you! :lol: :twisted:

Oh I'm smiling.. ;)


Credit is given where its due man, not because its a f-car or what..and i saw the times on ring, im just messing with you. :wink:

Edit:
And also as you said man, these cars are all on equal on many levels and the slighest hesitation can see a car behind or infornt. I'll watch the vid(awesome footage) again after i finish my assignment, but the only car i remember was the porsche going really hard and the diablo was starting to strech its legs but there was traffic for the vette driver.

Imagine how everyone of those grown men would be crying if an E60 M5 was there... ;) That ugly son of a bitch would be running right there with them - now if only BMW could have given the M5 looks to match the performance. ;)

Neema702
08-09-2005, 05:51 PM
That video was great. It's one of the best amateur clips ive seen in a long time. Thanks for the post.

SL55 AMG
08-09-2005, 06:24 PM
Great Video RC thanks.

The sound of the Z06 is fabulous especially in person and driving one, so raw!!!

The driver of the Z however seemed to challenge the Rev-limiter a bit towards the end of the film.

Anaway thanks much,
Hopefully there will be a new video featuring the C6 Z06 :D

bmagni
08-09-2005, 07:21 PM
just saw it, IMO the drivers of the other cars werent pushing the cars to the max most times, it would be nice to hear the original sound of the movie. the Z06 pulling out so easily isn't too convincing, i guess that if the lambo, porsche and f-owners didnt go all the way, maybe it way is cause they thought "its just a vettte" or maybe cause they didnt want to be ashamed by a chevy. but anyways it doesnt quite convince me.

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 07:46 PM
/\/\/\Your just a fuck head poser, no life son of a bitch who doesnt know jack shit about cars fan boy. :lol: :wink:

RC45
08-09-2005, 08:13 PM
just saw it, IMO the drivers of the other cars werent pushing the cars to the max most times, it would be nice to hear the original sound of the movie. the Z06 pulling out so easily isn't too convincing, i guess that if the lambo, porsche and f-owners didnt go all the way, maybe it way is cause they thought "its just a vettte" or maybe cause they didnt want to be ashamed by a chevy. but anyways it doesnt quite convince me.

Typical fan-boy response.

:roll:

666fast
08-09-2005, 08:55 PM
Cool video, would have been better without the music though.

Also, I find it hilarious that people are willing to make excuses! :lol: Why is it so hard to believe that a Z06 is just as fast or faster, than Ferrari's and Lamborghini's? :roll:

bmagni
08-09-2005, 09:28 PM
just saw it, IMO the drivers of the other cars werent pushing the cars to the max most times, it would be nice to hear the original sound of the movie. the Z06 pulling out so easily isn't too convincing, i guess that if the lambo, porsche and f-owners didnt go all the way, maybe it way is cause they thought "its just a vettte" or maybe cause they didnt want to be ashamed by a chevy. but anyways it doesnt quite convince me.

Typical fan-boy response.

:roll:


/\/\/\Your just a fuck head poser, no life son of a bitch who doesnt know jack shit about cars fan boy. :lol: :wink:

yeah i know :D :lol:

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 09:37 PM
I woouldn't go by BM

I missed this part :lol: Not the first time I see you pick and choose mate. You either take the video as fact or not. Again multiple BM vids over some random highway run video :lol: Whatever :roll:



666fast- Im not making excuses, Im stating facts which are evident in multiple BM vids and magazines which always say that the 360s pull away hard past 100mph. Ever seem the vid with the 360CS in the battle? They absolutly fly on straights.

So again, observe and make your own conclusions.

RC45
08-09-2005, 11:26 PM
You arrange the meet and I will run door handle to door handle with an F360CS

SFDMALEX
08-09-2005, 11:39 PM
You arrange the meet and I will run door handle to door handle with an F360CS

I'm sure you will :wink: Not denying that, or ever was, I just find it hard that a heavy 911 with turbos is faster in that video then a lighter more powerfull, NA, higher reving 360CS with paddle shift gearbox :wink: :wink:

JoeHahn
08-10-2005, 12:58 AM
You arrange the meet and I will run door handle to door handle with an F360CS

I'm sure you will :wink: Not denying that, or ever was, I just find it hard that a heavy 911 with turbos is faster in that video then a lighter more powerfull, NA, higher reving 360CS with paddle shift gearbox :wink: :wink:


Got Torque?

I think the Z06 and 911 Turbo have the torque to walk away from the CS with their in gear acceleration. I think the 360CS would fair better off a standing start with its softer tyres.

666fast
08-10-2005, 01:31 AM
So again, observe and make your own conclusions.

I did. I watched the video and saw that the Z06 had won. Maybe you should take your own advice? :P

SFDMALEX
08-10-2005, 01:34 AM
So again, observe and make your own conclusions.

I did. I watched the video and saw that the Z06 had won. Maybe you should take your own advice? :P

I did, and I made my conclusion based on multiple real tests, and not some random highway run :wink: :)

Oh and why you blindly stick the Vette in? I wasnt arguing against the Vette, its about the 911... My gosh you guys are defencive.

SFDMALEX
08-10-2005, 01:37 AM
Got Torque?


At that speed torque doesnt make much difference :wink: On the low end is were the Vette should take it due to the torque and the 911 due to its AWD configuration, not at high speed. Seen it many times in real tests, some highway run wont make me look at the whole picture differently, because it simply doesnt make sense.

RC45
08-10-2005, 01:55 AM
Nah - not defensive... :P - just open minded.. ;)

Mopsdrops
08-10-2005, 05:15 AM
:shock: Z06 is very fast !! No way I would have thought it was so fast, but I almost don't know anything about Corvette's , but what are the stats ? I thought it was slower, something like low 5 sec' to 60 mph ? I might be confusing it with another Corvette :?

RC45
08-10-2005, 08:41 AM
^^^ uhm no - the Z runs a 4s 0-60.

All those cars run a 4s odd 0-60, a high 11, low 12s 1/4 in the right hands, stop in about 105ft from 60mph - lap the 'Ring in sub 8 minute times and can pull 1G+ in a slalom ect etc etc.

The Z is the slowest top end at 175mph while the Diablo with its 202mph odd speed is the fastest - but as demonstrated, in the real world 50mph to 150mph range it is any ones race ;)

nthfinity
08-10-2005, 10:34 AM
^^^ uhm no - the Z runs a 4s 0-60.

All those cars run a 4s odd 0-60, a high 11, low 12s 1/4 in the right hands, stop in about 105ft from 60mph - lap the 'Ring in sub 8 minute times and can pull 1G+ in a slalom ect etc etc.

The Z is the slowest top end at 175mph while the Diablo with its 202mph odd speed is the fastest - but as demonstrated, in the real world 50mph to 150mph range it is any ones race ;)
im reminded of 'supercar showdown' where the soft starts in the diablo are definately erased by rediculous mad accelleration just a few seconds later :P
i wonder by how much a Z can walk a 355... if its neck and neck with a 360 CS, and Gallardo, im sure by quite a few car-lengths then.

and who was it that said 'torque wins races, HP sells cars' ? i have seen a @crank Dyno of an LS6 before, and tell me where a 360 has so much torque anywhere???~let alone near peak HP :P
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/6539/mvc268s7ra.th.jpg (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc268s7ra.jpg) naturally, an image shot by me on a old digi-camera

TeflonTron
08-10-2005, 01:13 PM
RC45: I'm sure that that 10+ year old Diablo was shaking at the thought of a highspeed run!

RC45
08-10-2005, 01:18 PM
RC45: I'm sure that that 10+ year old Diablo was shaking at the thought of a highspeed run!
As in "it's 10 years old and may break to bits if we push it too hard" - or facetiously "shaking" as in "we are not scared - we will still win - so who cares?"

TeflonTron
08-10-2005, 01:22 PM
RC45: I'm sure that that 10+ year old Diablo was shaking at the thought of a highspeed run!
As in "it's 10 years old and may break to bits if we push it too hard" - or facetiously "shaking" as in "we are not scared - we will still win - so who cares?"

Teehee!! Well, the early models had, shall I say, crap build quality, and I wouldn't want to do 206MPH in them, that's for sure.

What does a standard Z06 run to 150?

blinkmeat
08-10-2005, 02:13 PM
That Vette sounds pretty awesome... I think it'd do at least 180mph... the regualr C5 would do around 175 I think.

SFDMALEX
08-10-2005, 02:48 PM
Nah - not defensive... :P - just open minded.. ;)

You sure as hell arent by relying on this one vid :wink: You see, I base my opinion on mutiple resources.

nthfinity
08-10-2005, 04:19 PM
RC45: I'm sure that that 10+ year old Diablo was shaking at the thought of a highspeed run!
As in "it's 10 years old and may break to bits if we push it too hard" - or facetiously "shaking" as in "we are not scared - we will still win - so who cares?"

Teehee!! Well, the early models had, shall I say, crap build quality, and I wouldn't want to do 206MPH in them, that's for sure.

What does a standard Z06 run to 150?
173mph is what stands out in my mind. 6th gear is twice the ratio of 5th, and there for CV fuel consumption.

sooo... people run their 15 year old ZR-1s to 180 even today... does that mean that GM suddenly has better build quality then the Lambos?
it cant be both ways, where the 'vette has bad build quality, then it has good biuld quality :roll: :?:

TeflonTron
08-10-2005, 04:37 PM
RC45: I'm sure that that 10+ year old Diablo was shaking at the thought of a highspeed run!
As in "it's 10 years old and may break to bits if we push it too hard" - or facetiously "shaking" as in "we are not scared - we will still win - so who cares?"

Teehee!! Well, the early models had, shall I say, crap build quality, and I wouldn't want to do 206MPH in them, that's for sure.

What does a standard Z06 run to 150?
173mph is what stands out in my mind. 6th gear is twice the ratio of 5th, and there for CV fuel consumption.

sooo... people run their 15 year old ZR-1s to 180 even today... does that mean that GM suddenly has better build quality then the Lambos?
it cant be both ways, where the 'vette has bad build quality, then it has good biuld quality :roll: :?:

Are you talking to me, or RC45?

Lambos had poor build quality in the early Diablo models, that is non contestable. A 10 year old Diablo will still be neck-a-neck with a new C5 Z06 at 150, and after that it's bye-bye 'Vette. The original Diablos were like, 4.2 to 60 and about 9.4 to 100, with 150 coming up in about 22 seconds. However, at 150 the Diablo still has 56MPH under the hood, whereas the Corvette has about 25MPH left.

RC45
08-10-2005, 06:09 PM
I have no doubt Countach's and early Diablos were basically some parts shaken in a large metal drum - and they were bolted down where they landed. ;) This means clutches, syncro's etc can get abused and broken easily.

But I seem to recall that a well maintained (ie you throw money at it annually) Diablo can be reliably run to 200mph regularly - but don't do to many standing starts you will fry a clutch a week :P

I will look it up later - but of the top of my head the C5 Z06 runs 0-150 in 23 or 24 seconds.

The C5 Coupe runs 180ish-mph in 5th gear - the C5 Z06 runs 173-4-5mph (depending on whose calculation you use) in 5th gear.

The C5 6-speed cars are gear limited on top. Well - not technically - see the ECU has both a throttle limiter and an injector limiter - you can only run to 174ish in 5th @ 6600rpm.

The throttle control cut-off is 9000rpm in 1-2-3-4 & 6 - but 6600 in 5th, and the fuel cutoff is 6600 in 1-2-3-4 & 6 - but 9000 in 5th.

There is also a speed limiter in every gear, and I think it is set to 254mph by default.

What they have done is made it a little less abrupt when you run into the rev limiter at 174mph. They close the throttle on you - not the fuel... but in every other gear they leave the throttle wide open, but cut the injectors off. This is why when you run into the red in 1st or 2nd or 3rd or even 4th its real abrupt and very noticable.

But in 5th it's almost like the car can't push through the wall of air - but this we know is not true, because the higher geard C5 Coupe pushes on to 180mph with only 350hp. Folks who have set their ETC (electronic throttle control) to 7000 in 5th have run right up to the limit and on to 180+.

It is how ever advisable to not do that with the stock valve train ;)

SFDMALEX
08-10-2005, 06:16 PM
/\/\/\You know what I dont get? That damn overdrive gear on a performance car. :? Why wont they just stick in a properly ratioed 6th gear? I'm sure it could hit 185+ with it.

nthfinity
08-10-2005, 06:30 PM
/\/\/\You know what I dont get? That damn overdrive gear on a performance car. :? Why wont they just stick in a properly ratioed 6th gear? I'm sure it could hit 185+ with it.
who wants to pay gas guzzler tax, let alone... who wants a 'economical supercar' to be uneconomical?

the Ford GT is geared even taller... and part of the reason that our supercars have such a broad torque curve that a gear can be used over a broader specturum; whereas a high reving car will need the short ratios to stay in the power.

funny thing is that i do agree with you, i would much prefer a close ratio 6 speed. :wink:

RC45
08-10-2005, 06:48 PM
/\/\/\You know what I dont get? That damn overdrive gear on a performance car. :? Why wont they just stick in a properly ratioed 6th gear? I'm sure it could hit 185+ with it.
who wants to pay gas guzzler tax, let alone... who wants a 'economical supercar' to be uneconomical?

the Ford GT is geared even taller... and part of the reason that our supercars have such a broad torque curve that a gear can be used over a broader specturum; whereas a high reving car will need the short ratios to stay in the power.

funny thing is that i do agree with you, i would much prefer a close ratio 6 speed. :wink:

Well - gas guzzler tax is only paid by the first purchaser... so us 'used car shoppers" don't need to worry.

But I am glad to have and love 6th gear. it allow me to make awesome cross country trips at 75mph, return 28mpg and only have to make 2 fuel stops on a 1200 mile road trip.

Thrashing the car through the backroads and only having a 200 mile tank range (at my 12mpg) is alreadya bother - needing to time you gas stops in podunk towns - I can only imagine how painful and irritating the 160 mile range a 9mpg Murci has.

Of course we need to consider that most weekends I drive further for fun than most Europeans drive in a year on that rinky dink continent :P ;)

rpantoja0
08-13-2005, 11:54 PM
Link down!? Plz put it up again (I missed it...). Thnx