Alonso -Is he worthy???

[jenkF1]

Okay, some ppl may hate me now

But I keep hearing these names being mixed up in the world 'senna, schumi, prost, alonso' -Im sorry Alonso is not worthy of being mixed with such names. I still dont rate him as much as everyone else does.
Okay, hes certainly quick, hes cool under pressure (as we saw in his nice defence from Schumi earlier in the Year). Hes certainly got the arrogant attitude of a champ (as we see after every race with his gestures and hes over-competive attitute).

But to be honest the understeery mega traction Renault has to be the easiest car to drive this season, super reliable as well. Alonso outclassed Trulli last year , which unsurprisingly isnt that difficult in race trim. We've still never seen that lad on his back foot apart from that mo with Schumacher. Hes cruising to a title at the moment in my opinion.

Give me an example of when we've seen this guy using true overtaking aggression on track. If you remember in Silverstone when he got held up by Trulli he got frustrated and was all over the place. And he certainly fears Kimi.

Okay, he gave Fisi a shock and outclassed a true talent although I think Fisi's been handed dodgy racecars and his latin temperament gets in the way of his talent(confidence shatters when he has bad luck)

But I think giving Alonso the crown this year dont feel rite...give him a few years and who knows we may have a true legend of racing...but not yet.

Bring on the abuse!

[bmagni]

I agree with you, though we still have to see who wins the championship, its still 7 more races, and Kimi has a big chance, the only problem is the reliabilty in the engine.

[choudio]

if it wasnt for a a joke of an merc engine (and a couple of other things), kimi would be something 15 or so points clear of alonso, even not including the nurburgring suspension. when r mclaren gonna learn that reliabilty is costing them championships?! alonso must be laughin, cruising around at his own pace, not being challenged (most of time has a very large gap to play with) and being handed the championship on a plate. no doubt hes a good driver, but its been a cruise for him this yr, by no means a true test of his driving ability and his balls. putting him up there with the likes of senna, schumi, prost etc - ur having a laugh surely???

[ZfrkS62]

One championship a legend does not make. Look at Villenuve.

Alonso has a long way to go before he can rightfully be placed amongst such names. I think he will be good for one, maybe two titles.

[5vz-fe]

I actually like Webber alot, but too bad Williams is on a down fall when he joins.

[jenkF1]

One championship a legend does not make, look at Hill!

Though respect to him for being son of a legend and a true gentlemen.

[Toronto]

seems like my list :D

anyways, if you look at the stats, alson is better then most other drivers out there.
not to mention the youngest race winner (and dare I say champ.) you can't take that away from him.
.
and I never put him on a list of legends, it is a list of straight stats, if you finishing reading my post i clearly stated that,
"Senna, schumi, prost, alonso, and the list will go on, all won races in the time it will take button" please argue with that? please?

in 2003, alonso not only won a race, he finished in 6th (55points) he beat out DC, and trulli, and button (17points)

now your arguments about who had the better car?
well they both had the same amount of DNF @ 5 (DC @ 5 too)
and who had the better car? well the renault had less HP, and a low end torque setup so he couldn't reach the high speed of that of the BAR.

with less he did more :P

now to compair them on just STATS (who cares if they are cocky? Senna thought he was a god)

Alonso
Wins : 7
Points scored : 205
Number of GP : 63
Pole Position : 7
Podiums : 17
First GP : 2001 (Melbourne)

Button
Wins : 0
Points scored : 142
Number of GP : 94
Pole Position : 2
Podiums : 11
First GP : 2000 (Melbourne)

Alonso is better then Button . full stop

[choudio]

the only yr that button has had a a better car than alonso was last yr, got ne stats???
im not saying button is a better driver that alonso, but u seem to have a problem with him. no doubt about it, button is a very competent driver and would have won races this yr if he was sitting in the mclaren (so would alot of ppl tho) or the renault cos they r without doubt the best cars in the field and have been all season long.

[Toronto]

??? what no the 2003 BAR was far better then the Renault, I am not going looking threw my 2003 f1 mags to prove you wrong :wink:

[jenkF1]

lol, Yeah i used your list but i didnt mean u i mean media in general and Flavio thinking his gods gift.

You cant say that BAR is better than the Renault! Ok, top end maybe not but traction is well important.

One of Buttons main points is he makes very little mistakes. Okay, he slammed it into the wall in Canada, but didnt Alonso?
11 podiums in a BAR compared to 17 in a renault, not bad in my book but okay he should have won by now ill give u that.
And ill prob give it to u that Button is not on Alonso's level.

Alonso is a master once hes set in his ways -clear track ahead of him no pressure and warm tyres. We need to see him under pressure more to fully understand his character. We saw it once with Schumi but if there was a lot more laps i would have thought Schumacher would have taken it easily.

[Toronto]

lol, Yeah i used your list but i didnt mean u i mean media in general and Flavio thinking his gods gift.

You cant say that BAR is better than the Renault! Ok, top end maybe not but traction is well important.

well you see this is your prob. you here from the media that the renault, has this amazing traction. only some of this holds true. off the start they seems to work better.

but if you look @ bar times, and speed trap speeds. the bar is clearly slower in the straights (i think it was by 10mph+ in Canada) and but they hold their speed into turns better then most cars. so in the end they still have a slower lap times.

this said Renault does have the BEST car of the season.
Mclaren as the FASTEST car in the season
and BAR as the one of the FASTEST cars in the turns....

but all this means nothing...
Button isn't as good as Alonso up to this point in time.
Alonso has made history in his short career... Button hasn't

[Toronto]

I think they will have good qualifying times....

[choudio]

alonso is the better driver, but why r u picking on jenson? u switch the cars they have driven, things would have been alot different, and jenson may have been leading the championship! alonso maybe would have won a race or 2 last yr but wouldnt "have made history"
i think u could say 90% of the drivers rnt as good as alonso, not just jenson!

[Toronto]

um the drivers don't pick the team... so if Renault wan't him, he must be doing somthing button isn't

and I am picking on JB simply because of the other thread, and 90% of the UK media over hype him :P

and alonso isn't the best driver out there far from it there are 2-3 other drivers out there right now that could teach him a thing or too, but he is better then most (most = Button)

[sameerrao]

I think Alonso is a pretty deserving champion as is very likely to happen this year.

Why?
--> He makes very few mistakes - Canada being the only one this year.
--> He has got an excellent race pace ... can maintain consistently good lap times
--> He has demonstrated an ability to compensate for poor handling car --> note: this was hinted at by Pat symonds who pointed out a couple races where the car had a problem and still the laptime didnt fall much
--> He has improved on his weakness last year of poor qualifying - he is consistently on the Top 4 in the grid
--> He is impervious to pressure on and off the track ... he ably kept a faster Michael behind him in Imola.

Despite all this my heart goes out to poor Kimi who had about 4 certain wins taken away due to poor reliability reasons.

Kimi is more liable to mistakes as he drives like a young Schumacher - always wants to win at the fastest possible pace rather than an Alain Prost / Jackie Stewart approach of slowest possible pace. He sometimes overcooks it in qualifying due to his tendency to drive on the edge.

Kimi is as good if not better at not succumbing to pressure.

Also Kimi like Hakkinen before is the quickest driver on the grid in terms of raw speed

[360modenalover]

I think Alsono is deserving of the title, but a legend not just yet, he is a good driver but you need to have more then one championship title to your name to be consider a legend (i.e-Villenivue, Hill)

Winning the Formula one championship, takes a lot of things into consideration for a team, reliablility being one of them, Ferrari during the years of winning its championship had the fastest car but also they had a strong reliablitiy in there cars, they were not subjected to techincal failures in their cars.

Mclaren's car is the fastest car right now, but there realiablity is terrible, if Kimi and Mclaren do not win the championship, they have no one to blame except for themselves.

Renault is winning the championship presently because at the start of the season they had the fastest car and one of the most realiable cars on the grid. During the course of the season, they have lost the position of being the fastest but there realiablility is still one of the best. Taking second place is still good because they are only losing two points to the winner compared to not even scoring points because of DNF.

[ZfrkS62]

I think Alonso is a pretty deserving champion as is very likely to happen this year.

Why?
--> He makes very few mistakes - Canada being the only one this year.
--> He has got an excellent race pace ... can maintain consistently good lap times
--> He has demonstrated an ability to compensate for poor handling car --> note: this was hinted at by Pat symonds who pointed out a couple races where the car had a problem and still the laptime didnt fall much
--> He has improved on his weakness last year of poor qualifying - he is consistently on the Top 4 in the grid
--> He is impervious to pressure on and off the track ... he ably kept a faster Michael behind him in Imola.

Despite all this my heart goes out to poor Kimi who had about 4 certain wins taken away due to poor reliability reasons.

Kimi is more liable to mistakes as he drives like a young Schumacher - always wants to win at the fastest possible pace rather than an Alain Prost / Jackie Stewart approach of slowest possible pace. He sometimes overcooks it in qualifying due to his tendency to drive on the edge.

Kimi is as good if not better at not succumbing to pressure.

Also Kimi like Hakkinen before is the quickest driver on the grid in terms of raw speed

I don't know about the rest of them, but i was just saying he doesn't really deserve to be held up with Schumi, Senna and Prost yet.

He does deserve the championship this year, providing Raikonnen's luck keeps dropping out from under him.

[antonioledesma]

Alonso is in his year. Almost everything is going very good for him.
And yes, luck does sometimes make a driver champion without having the best car or being the best driver.
He is good... but he still has to prove of what he's is made from.
Great drivers do great things with flawless or shitty cars.

I would love to see him fall, to have a couple of bad years and see if he has the balls to recover.

[5vz-fe]

Does anyone remembers in Canadian GP, Alonso was saying how he and a few others exits was doing someone someone big favours. Wake up Dick, Kimi has done more favours for u this year than u doing favours for others and he didn't even say a word about it. Please do us a favour and STFU.

[Toronto]

I think Alsono is deserving of the title, but a legend not just yet, he is a good driver but you need to have more then one championship title to your name to be consider a legend (i.e-Villenivue, Hill)

so GV isn't a legend on your sheet eh? some legends didn't even get the glory of a championship :wink:

and people please stop complaining about other teams not finishing a race...
it isn't 1 fast hot lap, it is 70 laps in a race... I know it is sad an all,, boo hoo, for all you that haven't been watching for more then the rise of shumi plenty or races/championships have been won and loss just the same :roll:
that is the sport :twisted:

[SFDMALEX]

The boy got skills, I dont doubt that, but his mouth should be kept shut at this point. He has not achieved enough convicingly to talk shit...yet....and that shit with his fingers???? I can count thank you.

[Toronto]

you think Alonso is cocky, you should of seen Senna :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

you think Alonso is cocky, you should of seen Senna :wink:

Senna has the right to be, he's a legend.

Alonso on the other hand has some good victories, good races, but he has not yet proven to me that he is THAT good. But he talks like he's the damn man.

In my view he hasnt earned the right to be a jackass yet :D

[Toronto]

lol, ok if you think so, senna was cocky from the get go. even in formula ford and his first f1 race he was calling him self a gift from god :D

alonso will have more effect in the history books then anyother driver out their right now, except for one :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

If Alonso backs up his current trash talking by Senna like performance in the future then I take back what I say now about him :lol:

[sameerrao]

alonso is worthless and is only having the success hes having due to the misfortune of others. when the other top teams clean you their act, we will see how the renaults and alonso do.


Strong words ... but can you state why you think he is worthless. It makes no sense to me based on this year's performance.


I don't know about the rest of them, but i was just saying he doesn't really deserve to be held up with Schumi, Senna and Prost yet.

He does deserve the championship this year, providing Raikonnen's luck keeps dropping out from under him.

I agree! I think he is one of the best of the post-Schumacher era. I personally think that Kimi is the best of the lot but if you run a poll over here at JW you would get names such as Kimi, Alonso, Montoya (yes Montoya!).

But a legend like Prost, Senna, Stewart ... nope .. he hasnt done enough to earn that status. But the good news for him and Kimi is that they both have atleast 6-8 years more driving in them to take a shot at legenddom.

[ZfrkS62]

run a poll over here at JW you would get names such as Kimi, Alonso, Montoya (yes Montoya!).


I happen to like Montoya as well. Everyone bitches that there is no overtaking anymore, yet when he moves to over take and gets cut off, everyone accuses him of being kamikaze :?

[komotar]

I just flew over all the posts so I could be saying something that has allready been said.....

I don'k know who was watching F1 back when Schumi start wining races in Beneton.....

Schumi is a legend and if back in the day somebody would say or ask if this guy called Schumacher is deserving of a title, I don't think he would have many people cheering for him...

If I remember correctly, he won the first 3 or 4 races in the 93 or was it 94 season, the one that Senna died, and I was going like, who is this guy and what is he trying to do. Is he trying to be the best, get the crown or what? I was convinced that whoever Schumi was, he just had a few lucky races.......and not to mention all the years when Schumi had a car that was waaaaay better than the rest of the field...

I remember my dad and brothers saying he'll fade away and look at him 10 or so years after.......

Don't get me wrong, I still think Alonso has a long way to go, but I think he could potentially be one of the big ones. I think currently Kimi is the best driver out there and that if he wouldn't have that UNBELIVABLE "luck", he would be leading the boards.....

I say we have a new era comming up, let's see what happens, we might me suprised...

[jenkF1]

Quote:

lol, ok if you think so, senna was cocky from the get go. even in formula ford and his first f1 race he was calling him self a gift from god

alonso will have more effect in the history books then anyother driver out their right now, except for one


-Senna WAS Gods gift and people respected his cockiness because he was on another level doing things with the cars that no one ever thought about before.

Schumacher could be arrogant because he could mix his dog of a Ferrari up with the big boys in 96-98 when Eddie struggled to do so.

Alonso has been in F1 for 2minutes in brilliant machinery bar the Minardi (okay Senna and schumi didnt really have shit cars in there careers) and never reallly under pressure and I don't see why he can be cocky yet. However I don't think he seems cocky off the track (except being bold enough to say the reason hes winning is cus he can actually finish races in the last press conference- good on him :!: )

We're definetly seeing a big talent in the making, but once we see the pressure being put on of and on the track then we will see what hes made of, maybe later this season if we're very lucky.

Kimi is a better driver in my mind and more likely to make a big impact on history if his engine lets him. :(

[Toronto]

-Senna WAS Gods gift and people respected his cockiness because he was on another level doing things with the cars that no one ever thought about before.

Schumacher could be arrogant because he could mix his dog of a Ferrari up with the big boys in 96-98 when Eddie struggled to do so.

first senna was cocky, even when he was in his frist season, even in his first test drive, always, always was.

same with Schumacher - senna even had to calm him down. Senna of all poeple.

now I have never said kimi is a bad driver. Kimi is one of the top drivers out their. but he isn't 1st or 2nd, neither is alonso.

but unless Kimi wins more champ. then Schumi, alonso will have more of an effect then kimi will in the history in the sport. I guarantee it!!! 100%, you can't take back what alonso has already done, and what kimi hasn't.

the fastest driver isn't always the best :wink:

[yg60m]

IMO Alonso is a very talented driver, one of the best of this generation. But I prefer Raikkonnen, I think he is better :wink:

[Toronto]

what has alonso done??

oh i know he has driven the A car while fisi gets the scraps, and everyone fails to see that or recognize it.

its damn funny how people only see or talk about what they want and ignore the rest.

alonso hasnt done anything but fall into the right spot at the right time, and you have to admit that his driving style isnt the best. a bit sloppy if you ask me.

become the youngest winner of all time.... and dare I say the youngest champ....

and will you stop crying about his car lasting and others failing...
that is part of the SPORT, his team can build a car, the others can't
plain and simple...

and if you have been watching f1 for some time you would know that Senna's 1991 champ. is very simliar to alonso this year :roll:
and that isn't just the only year most their have been planety of years like it 8)

how and about alsono getting the better car. well almost everyteam does that :P

[gucom]

well sorry to say so but mostly, alonso is right. it IS part od the sports to have the best car, and if ur car fails, the team sinply isnt good enough. and the championship IS worth more now that schumi is still in there, even though it would've been worth even alot more if schumi was still in the best car.
BTW both senna and schumi have raced bad cars, i believe benneton wasnt the top team yet when schumi entered (although i could be wrong) and ferrari definately wasnt a top team. And senna raced with Toleman and Lotus, which by then wasnt the top team anymore either. Alonso is a seriously skilled driver and his driving style is incredibly smooth, which causes his tyres to hold up longer, which is pretty important with the current rules. but still, i'd prefer kimi, and in the same car i think kimi'd be faster. neither has achieved legend status like schumi or senna or prost or indeed GV yet, though.

[bmagni]

well yeah hes right about having a good car, but the way i see it, is that he wont win the championship, he will get it as a gift. He's a good driver, but his arrogance, just makes him not worthy, oh well also the fact that kimi is a better driver, ill say it once again, hes just being lucky. how many races did he win and kimi got no points cause of the engine ?

[Mers]

There were ppl saying the same about that idiot, montoya....not worthy too....
It's just that nowadays, i have the impression that anyone even meanacing to give shimi a fight, and a nice one, is being placed on this list....

[jenkF1]

It came to him easily, but he is certainy worthy :oops:

[mendocino]

Could I say that Alonso is the YOUNGEST driver in the history of this sport in winning the championship? It must be an important point to deliverate this post. He is 24 years old... perhaps he isn't going to win so much things as MS but he is getting records that nobody have done until our days.

[graywolf624]

eh... he won so hes worthy.. That being said I dont expect him to win again for quite a while. Imho the majority of this year was tires and mechanical, not driver.

[mendocino]

^^^ Give the same Renault to Keikki Kovalainen... and he would have been the "yongest driver to win a world championship". This "record" is plain stupid IMO. Record in wins, record in poles, record in fast laps, in hat tricks... these are the REAL records - the ones related with the age, or "the first driver to win a world championship whose father is called Jack"... are just pure crap.

Yes, of course. I agree. But this is the reason why he hasn't other records: he is too young to have them!!!! Not enough time in racing to give all of himself. :wink: