MC12 faster that Enzo on TopGear!

[Goro]

I find this a bit hard to believe but here it is black on white. It's The Stig's lap times on Top Gear. I'm pretty sure that if they tested the two cars under the exact same conditions the Enzo would be faster.

http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/thestig/

[TT]

It's not that hard to believe for many of us who saw the video footage :roll:

And BTW, it's not like it was 5 seconds faster.. it's such a small margin ...

[dingo]

I'm not sure why you are so suprised - watch the video and you'll see it with your own eyes.

[styla21]

Well actually i am suprised. Very.
How does the MC12 - a car with 100 less Horsepower, 400 pounds heavier, and proportions less conducive to a quick lap time manage to lap faster than the Enzo?
I don't get it at all... :?

[Ghostbat]

Well actually i am suprised. Very.
How does the MC12 - a car with 100 less Horsepower, 400 pounds heavier, and proportions less conducive to a quick lap time manage to lap faster than the Enzo?
I don't get it at all... :?

I don't know about the weight but the MC12 is only about 30bhp down on the Enzo.

[dingo]

....400 pounds heavier.....

where did you get that from? :?

The MC12 weighs 1445kg (some sources say 1335kg but I think that is incorrect), and the Enzo is 80kg lighter at 1365kg. :wink: Also like Ghostba t said the power diff is not as big as you said.

[J-San]

It's true that the MC12 is a bit heavier and less powerful than the Enzo, but the downforce-enhanced bodywork (made with racing in mind) is a huge advantage on the tracks. That's the main reason for the MC12 being faster than the Enzo. Other minor reason is that the ABS in the MC12 is less intrusive than in the Enzo, allowing the pilot to brake later into corners.

[|Nuno|]

Why was the MC12 faster?

Simple: different day, different conditions...

The cars weren't even tested on the same year, so we can't compare the lap times. Plus, Top Gear isn't exacly the most reliable source out there. :wink:



It's true that the MC12 is a bit heavier and less powerful than the Enzo, but the downforce-enhanced bodywork (made with racing in mind) is a huge advantage on the tracks.

On a track like Top Gear's test track, all it matters is mechanical grip; the speeds achieved aren't enough to generate much downforce. At least not enough to make downforce a preponderat factor on a good lap time.



Other minor reason is that the ABS in the MC12 is less intrusive than in the Enzo, allowing the pilot to brake later into corners.

I think they have the same ABS system, actually. :)

Don't let yourself fool by Clarckson, he said some pretty stupid things that day. Like, "the Enzo's Stability Control is more intrusive", when the Enzo doesn't even have a Stability Control... :roll:



On top of that, the MC12 is an Enzo. So the lap times will be close, despite some differences between the cars. However, on the same day with the same driver, I'm sure the Enzo would be faster. Simply because Ferrari wouldn't let the Maserati be faster than the Enzo. :)

[RC45]

Maybe stig was sober for the Enzo run - I heard he has a mean lead foot when he's had a few pints.. :P

[pharzo]

Maybe stig was sober for the Enzo run - I heard he has a mean lead foot when he's had a few pints.. :P

A few pints of magnesium of course :)

On the MC12 being faster...just typical top gear bollocks

[twboy1999]

arghhh
i thought mc12 is light than enzo... and 30hp down on enzo or something like that

where u guys get the info that mc12 is heavier??? i might be wrong

[SFDMALEX]

Well actually i am suprised. Very.
How does the MC12 - a car with 100 less Horsepower, 400 pounds heavier, and proportions less conducive to a quick lap time manage to lap faster than the Enzo?
I don't get it at all... :?

It just tells you how much difference a day at a track can make.

[HoboPie]

It's interesting because while every other review of the Enzo and MC12 say the Enzo is actually the racecar of the two, I've heard that the Potenzas on the MC12 are much better track tires.

An Enzo at Sugo lapped about 3 seconds quicker on the MC12 tires than on its standard bridgestones.

[oantob]

its all about the driver I guess, when it comes to two car with almost the same performance and same engine...
Maybe when Stig drive the MC12 he takes all the corner with the right angle and speed, so it makes a little faster time then the Enzo :wink:
Just try and play Granturismo and try to lap a circuit with a same car then you understand...

[nthfinity]

not to mention (if anybody ever notices) cars that TG like, the cars take totally different lines through the corners to make them appear like they are going at the limit, where its definately a slower line... for example, the F430 should've never hit the tire barrier... the TVR should not have taken such big cuts through the apex...

the vette should never have oversteered so crazy... just watch the laps

they are great fun to watch, but hardly comparable :roll:

[7thgear]

Well actually i am suprised. Very.
How does the MC12 - a car with 100 less Horsepower, 400 pounds heavier, and proportions less conducive to a quick lap time manage to lap faster than the Enzo?
I don't get it at all... :?

I dont think those numbers are very acurate m8...

[Global Warming]

not to mention (if anybody ever notices) cars that TG like, the cars take totally different lines through the corners to make them appear like they are going at the limit, where its definitely a slower line... for example, the F430 should've never hit the tire barrier... the TVR should not have taken such big cuts through the apex...

the vette should never have oversteered so crazy... just watch the laps

they are great fun to watch, but hardly comparable :roll:

That’s interesting and sure, I don’t think anyone holds the Top Gear lap times as "gospel". But I'm not sure what you are complaining about... Do you have an example of a more accurate track testing method than what Top Gear and 5th Gear are trying to do?

You have to remember they are shooting at least 3 cars a day. Which means the Stig, or whoever only has less than a day to familiarize himself with the cars. How can you expect every line to be perfect? In fact that is kind of the point. I mean any driver that has put hundreds of hours in on the same car is going to be able to control it better than a driver that has had a day or two at best to get used to it.

Until we have android drivers I would say it’s still a pretty fair test. Arguing that a car could have had better lines and a better time with a driver that really knows the car… well is about as appropriate as people that try to slip the mod argument into production car discussions.

If you want it to be perfect you would have to have each car come with a driver that had specifically put many hours driving time in on that car.


Edit: I guess you could put drivers that have a lot of hours in the same car but are new to the track against those that are new to the cars but have hours of experience on the same track… Se which does better….

And that would still not be good enough… Let’s just demand that all cars are driven by drivers with lots of hours in both the cars and on the track..???


Bla bla bla…!! :roll:

[Herceg]

well anything can happen...ive heard of a 360 challenge beating an F430 by a .3 of a secone only because the 360 is riding on better tires than the 430...its odd how the little things count

[|Nuno|]

not to mention (if anybody ever notices) cars that TG like, the cars take totally different lines through the corners to make them appear like they are going at the limit, where its definately a slower line... for example, the F430 should've never hit the tire barrier... the TVR should not have taken such big cuts through the apex...

the vette should never have oversteered so crazy... just watch the laps

they are great fun to watch, but hardly comparable :roll:

Yep, I noticed that too...

And on this particular lap, the start was pretty poor too; way too much wheelspin.

[gottacatchup]

The MC12 lapped faster for the sole reason that they needed a new car to take the top spot on the board to keep people interested.

But on the F430 lap on the start the Stig spun the wheels like crazy. Why didnt he use the launch control that gives you perfect starts everytime?

[SFDMALEX]

I guess he didn't want the driver aids to interfier elsewhere, so he had the button on "everything off" or whatever.

You can still use the LC with all the aids off :wink:

That F430 Lap was bullshit, he hit the tire barrier...

[Global Warming]

I guess he didn't want the driver aids to interfier elsewhere, so he had the button on "everything off" or whatever.

You can still use the LC with all the aids off :wink:

That F430 Lap was bullshit, he hit the tire barrier...

But the stig does 3 laps in each car and they use the fastest one. So even if he did get a bad start and hit the barrier it was still his best lap.

[mclaren_Gt]

dude you have to see the video, but really are the same time

1.18.9 and enzo 1.19.0

is the same problem betwen the pagani zonda and the koenigsegg, 1.23.8 and 123.9, is really the same time, if you put the 2 cars in a race, the enzo can win.

[Global Warming]

dude you have to see the video, but really are the same time

1.18.9 and enzo 1.19.0

is the same problem betwen the pagani zonda and the koenigsegg, 1.23.8 and 123.9, is really the same time, if you put the 2 cars in a race, the enzo can win.

Yes I have seen all Top Gears. The Enzo, Zonda, MC12.. I have not missed a Top Gear in 3 years...

[Driftzwerg]

Have you guys ever heard of the German magazines sportauto "supertest". 2 circuits, good data and no showing of.... :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

I guess he didn't want the driver aids to interfier elsewhere, so he had the button on "everything off" or whatever.

You can still use the LC with all the aids off :wink:

That F430 Lap was bullshit, he hit the tire barrier...

But the stig does 3 laps in each car and they use the fastest one. So even if he did get a bad start and hit the barrier it was still his best lap.

If thats the best he could manage from three attempts then Im utterly dissapointed in his driving skills.

[Global Warming]

I guess he didn't want the driver aids to interfier elsewhere, so he had the button on "everything off" or whatever.

You can still use the LC with all the aids off :wink:

That F430 Lap was bullshit, he hit the tire barrier...

But the stig does 3 laps in each car and they use the fastest one. So even if he did get a bad start and hit the barrier it was still his best lap.

If thats the best he could manage from three attempts then Im utterly dissapointed in his driving skills.

Well I admit it was not the best possible lap and it’s unfortunate that it happened on the 430 of all cars. But who knows what the story is, maybe the Bridgestone’s really do suck ass so much that with the TC turned completely off the car is just a beasts to try to control, even for professional drivers. At least that is what was implied.

[gtx28]

Guys its only a tenth of a second, that could be 100% driver, go watch a drag race youve eliminated the variables of the corners its a straight line. no driver is ever gonna get the exact same time every pass, the pros are withing 3 tenths for many passes so 1:19.0 and 1:18.9 are essentially the same car. If you had an enzo and ya mate had the mazerati, it would almost assuredly be up to the driver.

[Global Warming]

Guys its only a tenth of a second, that could be 100% driver, go watch a drag race youve eliminated the variables of the corners its a straight line. no driver is ever gonna get the exact same time every pass, the pros are withing 3 tenths for many passes so 1:19.0 and 1:18.9 are essentially the same car. If you had an enzo and ya mate had the mazerati, it would almost assuredly be up to the driver.

I agree.

But we were talking about the F430. I know its off topic and the funny thing is I started a thread about the 430 lap, but that was taken off topic by corvette talk for some reason lol.. I’m just trying to go with the flow...

[SilviaEvo]

that was a shitty time set down by the stig im disappointed too if that was his best out of three. he could have easily made it a lot faster.

[HoboPie]

The F430 lap might not have had the quickest lap ever, but the Enzo lap was atrocious. Actually I take that back, the last couple corners seemed noticable quicker than anything else, but he was oversteering through the first corner and that twitch through the hammerhead was ridiculous, I don't care what setup the car has, that is not even close to the fastest way through.

[5vz-fe]

^I agree he did screw up at the hammerhead, but the first corner looks fine.

[JaguarEtype]

To be honest i think the MC12 was lucky, it is one taily mother of a thing compared to the Enzo (according to JC) even though his skills arent great, it was a handful
also take into consideration... stig was listening to thrashier music :P

[Gnome]

To be honest i think the MC12 was lucky, it is one taily mother of a thing compared to the Enzo (according to JC) even though his skills arent great, it was a handful
also take into consideration... stig was listening to thrashier music :P
I haven't seen it, so I don't know anything, but this just hit me...
If the MC12 is harder to control, it might be because it is set up more aggressively. An aggressive setup is faster if you are able to control it. Thus the good time with less power and more weight.

Just a thought...

[JaguarEtype]

Gnome Posted
I haven't seen it, so I don't know anything, but this just hit me...
If the MC12 is harder to control, it might be because it is set up more aggressively. An aggressive setup is faster if you are able to control it. Thus the good time with less power and more weight.

Just a thought...

quit possible as the Enzo is strictly a Road car for the Road (unlike the previous F50) where as the MC12 is pretty much a Race car, or infact a derivitive of the MCC race car. either way the thickness of paper seperates the two

[pilone]

I have the video and before seeing to I knew it is faster.
And is also better looking

[TheHawk]

MC12 has PZero Corsa and the Enzo has a normal Bridgestone RE050A

[papaSMURF]

i think what everyone is trying to say is to figure out which one really is the faster of the two, no matter the hours put into driving it, or what track, there is not really a way to tell which is fastest (unless its on a test track that the car was developed on). every driver makes mistakes and top gear is simply showing how the cars drive, and act on the course, not which is actually faster.. the times are a means to associate different cars and how they act on the same track, when it comes down to a couple seconds the smallest variables will throw the times.