View Full Version : GM coughs up 7m43s time for C6 Z06...
I'll post something before the monkey brigade comes rolling though.
Dave Hill, Chief ENgineer (basically Mr Modern Corvette) for the Corvette program announced last night that the official time GM is making public for the C6 Z06 is 7m43s for a flying lap pf the Nurburgring.
In a bizarre turn about he also announced the C6 time, as being 7m59s - yet it was he whom is accredited with announcing that the C6 time was 7m56s... so there you have the C6 time, amazingly slowing down by 3s after a year.
Interestingly this "3s" movement is the same amount by which the reported time is slower, than the first leaked 7m40s
So - which is it? The car is slower, GM can't operated a stop watch, Dave Hill is getting senile and can't remember shit from a couple weeks ago :P ;)
graywolf624
07-17-2005, 12:41 PM
lol.. I have pretty good faith these times are correct only because from a context of whats been done to the cars they are the right ballpark. (ignoring whether the other car was a blue devil, which I doubt they are that far along with it personally).
Just_me
07-17-2005, 12:42 PM
With all respect but I rather listen Sportauto than carmanufacturs. BMW claim that the M5 can do it in 8 min but I could care less. That not the time Sportuato got.
graywolf624
07-17-2005, 12:44 PM
Sport auto is a) not professional drivers.. b) haven't run the zo6.
Between the two I think youll have to settle for this for the time being.
T-Bird
07-17-2005, 12:46 PM
hey now atleast there is an official time for the Z06 even if it is 3 secs slower than the actual time reported a few weeks ago it's still a damn good time and I'm sure they could shave a few secs off that time.
SFDMALEX
07-17-2005, 12:57 PM
whats the problem? Its still damn fast...you boys are gonna go nuts over 3 sec?
whats the problem? Its still damn fast...you boys are gonna go nuts over 3 sec?
No - I am going nuts over the fact that yet again, info from a GM source oddly slips anorther way.
For the longest time Dave Hill swore blind (well not quite - but he proudly announced it at a number of events) the C6 was a 7m56s lapper. Now he says it's a 7m59s lapper?
It is quite possible he mispoke - and if so ar we sure about anything else him and his crew have reported ;) :P
SFDMALEX
07-17-2005, 01:09 PM
Anyway since when do you Americans care so much about how fast your car can go around some eurotrash circuit :lol: :wink:
Should be lapping at Daytona in that thing, not Nordschleife. :mrgreen:
Anyway since when do you Americans care so much about how fast your car can go around some eurotrash circuit :lol: :wink:
Should be lapping at Daytona in that thing, not Nordschleife. :mrgreen:
Unfortunatly some marketing MBA (take note gray - just cause you know marketing doesn't mean you gonna know what's best for the product and enthusiasts :P) decided that the car needs to be dulled down and poofta-ed up to sell to the Porker and Beemer crowd over there. :P
The NS laps are to make the car better, the in dash ghetto pimp DVD and "brushed alloy" panels are to attract the eurocrats ;)
Just_me
07-17-2005, 02:03 PM
Sport auto is a) not professional drivers.. b) haven't run the zo6.
Between the two I think youll have to settle for this for the time being.
Sportauto use a professional driver. He been driving Rallye and racing cars for more than 20 years. He hold officiell the record for fastest sërieproduced car at the ring, Carrera GT. Sportauto and Horst von Saurma is wellknown around the world.
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040920.004/porsche/1.html
No pro??? Your just fooling yourself.
st-anger
07-17-2005, 02:42 PM
Sport auto is a) not professional drivers.. b) haven't run the zo6.
Between the two I think youll have to settle for this for the time being.
Sportauto use a professional driver. He been driving Rallye and racing cars for more than 20 years. He hold officiell the record for fastest sërieproduced car at the ring, Carrera GT. Sportauto and Horst von Saurma is wellknown around the world.
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040920.004/porsche/1.html
No pro??? Your just fooling yourself.
... i´m 110% with u here - HvS is definitely among the top drivers and especially at NS...
furthermore he´s - or better said Sport Auto´s Supertest - the one and only accepted lap time source on NS and i´m definitely on the side of those saying "let´s wait for a SA time and then talk..."
it´s all about comparableness - what do we know about a "own" Porsche, BMW, MB, GM...... with "xy" as a driver ...!?
it´s surely nice talking about it but in the end at least german industry pool relies on SA and HvS and so do i... :wink:
^^ Just as long as you and don't ask HvS to "sand bag" and put in a slow 7m57s lap :P hehehe
pharzo
07-17-2005, 03:39 PM
Maybe they wanted to slow down the z06 so that when they release the "blue devil" time it'll stand out even more...?
Don't know why the c6 would suddenly get slower though...perhaps it's because a 6 is like a 9...but inverted :spaz:
Or maybe it's something to do with the tyres...7m40s with some sporty rubber, and 7m43s with the runflats?
Just_me
07-17-2005, 03:43 PM
... i´m 110% with u here - HvS is definitely among the top drivers and especially at NS...
furthermore he´s - or better said Sport Auto´s Supertest - the one and only accepted lap time source on NS and i´m definitely on the side of those saying "let´s wait for a SA time and then talk..."
it´s all about comparableness - what do we know about a "own" Porsche, BMW, MB, GM...... with "xy" as a driver ...!?
it´s surely nice talking about it but in the end at least german industry pool relies on SA and HvS and so do i... :wink:
Any scans and great review about Corvette C6 by Sportauto???
pharzo
07-17-2005, 03:54 PM
So RC, i just went a lurked a little on the z06vette forums...and some guy named andy seems to think that the "blue devil" laps in 7m40s, and the z06 7m43s. Apparently he's some kind of "insider"...and apparently he has been saying for a little while now that the z06 official time will be 7m43s...?
^^ yep - he may hear things around there, but he as very illogical presentations and arguments most of the time ;)
SFDMALEX
07-17-2005, 04:10 PM
Doesnt the blue devil have like heeps more horse power? Surely it cant be only 3 sec faster......somethig smells fishy...
Doesnt the blue devil have like heeps more horse power? Surely it cant be only 3 sec faster......somethig smells fishy...
It also doesn't exist yet per se and was not "lapping" on the day.
If it was, you have some of the dumbest spy photogs in the universe.
They see and photograph the stock 2006 C6 Z06 on the track, in the pits and everywhere in between - but somehow don't see the "Blue Devil" run at the same time.
You can blame the "Blue Devil" rumours on the AutoCar UK for having no clue what they were reporting on ;)
1zippo1
07-17-2005, 04:28 PM
Sport auto is a) not professional drivers.. b) haven't run the zo6.
Between the two I think youll have to settle for this for the time being.
Sportauto use a professional driver. He been driving Rallye and racing cars for more than 20 years. He hold officiell the record for fastest sërieproduced car at the ring, Carrera GT. Sportauto and Horst von Saurma is wellknown around the world.
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040920.004/porsche/1.html
No pro??? Your just fooling yourself.
Same thought's here. I'm very very very curious about the time that Sport Auto will do with the C6 & C6 Z06. Don't get me wrong, I like the new C6, but I find it hard to believe that it can put down the times you said it did.
For instance, look at the time the C5 put down. 8:18 That's not bad and yes the C6 is a new and much better car so it will be quite a bit faster, but even a C6 Z06 probably won't do a 7:43.
I'm no expert so I'm not saying that I'm right, but this is my oppinion.
... i´m 110% with u here - HvS is definitely among the top drivers and especially at NS...
furthermore he´s - or better said Sport Auto´s Supertest - the one and only accepted lap time source on NS and i´m definitely on the side of those saying "let´s wait for a SA time and then talk..."
it´s all about comparableness - what do we know about a "own" Porsche, BMW, MB, GM...... with "xy" as a driver ...!?
it´s surely nice talking about it but in the end at least german industry pool relies on SA and HvS and so do i... :wink:
T-Bird
07-17-2005, 04:29 PM
so zippo were you going to respond or just quote something for the hell of it?
1zippo1
07-17-2005, 04:32 PM
so zippo were you going to respond or just quote something for the hell of it?
Damn, don't know what the hell happend but I did reply and didn't just quote it. I was away for a while, maybe that's the reason.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I'm also waiting for the test of Sport Auto. I find the times you mention of the ZO6 highly unlikely. I'm not expert, but that's my oppinion.
so zippo were you going to respond or just quote something for the hell of it?
Damn, don't know what the hell happend but I did reply and didn't just quote it. I was away for a while, maybe that's the reason.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I'm also waiting for the test of Sport Auto. I find the times you mention of the ZO6 highly unlikely. I'm not expert, but that's my oppinion.
So now you think the car is not even capable of a 7m43s?
WTF?
:roll:
1zippo1
07-17-2005, 04:46 PM
so zippo were you going to respond or just quote something for the hell of it?
Damn, don't know what the hell happend but I did reply and didn't just quote it. I was away for a while, maybe that's the reason.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I'm also waiting for the test of Sport Auto. I find the times you mention of the ZO6 highly unlikely. I'm not expert, but that's my oppinion.
So now you think the car is not even capable of a 7m43s?
WTF?
:roll:
Nope I don't. Name a couple production cars that breached the 7m45 mark.
yg60m
07-17-2005, 05:12 PM
No matter the time, I saw a C6 Z06 last tuesday (in France !!! ... :shock: :?: but with American plates, I couldn't believe my eyes ) and it is stunning !!
Yeah - the cars should still all be running Michigan Manufacturer (Provo plates for you Tifosi types :P) plates.
Its a nice looking car, but the big rear window and chopped off arse still look really out of design step with the rest of the car.
Just_me
07-17-2005, 05:26 PM
It's possible that the Zo6 did in 7.43 min. I'm pretty sure the time is done with R-tires. With R-tires its easy to cut 10 seconds. It s going to be intresting how fast Sportauto can go.
But it doesnt matter cause not regular Joe is capably of doing laptimes lower than 8 minutes. :wink:
^^Actually a gent from the German garage that services and stores the cars GM takes to the 'Ring has already confirmed the car was still shod with stock runflats.
nthfinity
07-17-2005, 05:56 PM
^^Actually a gent from the German garage that services and stores the cars GM takes to the 'Ring has already confirmed the car was still shod with stock runflats.
runcraps ;)
i have good information that there is also going to be Two very specifically different Z06's for sale to begin with, with one geared directly to the hardcore performance enthusiast, and the other geared towared the poser who loves to go just about as fast... slightly softer suspension, dvd audio/sat nav/ heated seats etc.... ill get the scans in the magazine section in a little while (if i can find the magazine)... the real question is how much will the production hardcore Z differ, and will HvS test it, or the wanker's Z ???
You mean the 1LZ vs 2LZ options?
nthfinity
07-17-2005, 06:58 PM
You mean the 1LZ vs 2LZ options?
i believe thats the one; however the magazine (still looking) is quite old... a 'vette' quarterly magazine
graywolf624
07-17-2005, 08:28 PM
take note gray - just cause you know marketing doesn't mean you gonna know what's best for the product and enthusiasts
Lol.. Ill remember that.
Sportauto use a professional driver. He been driving Rallye and racing cars for more than 20 years. He hold officiell the record for fastest sërieproduced car at the ring, Carrera GT. Sportauto and Horst von Saurma is wellknown around the world.
How about we reword that then.. A professional that races corvettes for a living and wins 24 hr races in there.. Or a guy who sat in the car for a few laps.
Aka Magnussen versus magazine writer.. I respect that hes not your average hack, but he aint winning lemans either. Also yet again at the end of the day using a different driver is never consistant. http://www.corvetteracing.com/drivers/janmagnussen/janmagnussen.shtml
godspeed06
07-17-2005, 09:42 PM
so zippo were you going to respond or just quote something for the hell of it?
Damn, don't know what the hell happend but I did reply and didn't just quote it. I was away for a while, maybe that's the reason.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I'm also waiting for the test of Sport Auto. I find the times you mention of the ZO6 highly unlikely. I'm not expert, but that's my oppinion.
So now you think the car is not even capable of a 7m43s?
WTF?
:roll:
Nope I don't. Name a couple production cars that breached the 7m45 mark.
do the same thing for production cars that have 505 hp, and weigh on the low side of 3100 pounds and are as rigid as the c6 z06... dave hill already stated this number. he released it to the public. its basically a binding contract that the z06 can and did in fact lap the ring in that time. this must be correct for legal reasons. how can you possibly be skeptical :roll:?
Just_me
07-18-2005, 02:56 AM
take note gray - just cause you know marketing doesn't mean you gonna know what's best for the product and enthusiasts
Lol.. Ill remember that.
Sportauto use a professional driver. He been driving Rallye and racing cars for more than 20 years. He hold officiell the record for fastest sërieproduced car at the ring, Carrera GT. Sportauto and Horst von Saurma is wellknown around the world.
How about we reword that then.. A professional that races corvettes for a living and wins 24 hr races in there.. Or a guy who sat in the car for a few laps.
Aka Magnussen versus magazine writer.. I respect that hes not your average hack, but he aint winning lemans either. Also yet again at the end of the day using a different driver is never consistant. http://www.corvetteracing.com/drivers/janmagnussen/janmagnussen.shtml
Only fools disrespect Sportauto and Horst. You Said Sportauto didnt have a professionel driver. Obviosly you were 100% wrong. The best part, he's the only driver doing the supertests.
Guibo
07-18-2005, 06:51 AM
To clear some things up, I don't think Dave Hill ever specified a 7:56 time at the 'Ring for the C6. That time comes from John Heinricy's testing of the C5 Z06 Commemorative Edition, and was reportedly "leaked" by Corvette product manager Harlan Charles in an interview with a Vette enthusiast magazine. The official line from GM was that that time was "under 8 minutes". Dave Hill has subsequently verified that time.
As of December 2004 (well after the 7:56 time attributed to the C6 was erroneously spread through various media), Dave Hill did say:
"The last time we ran for time was on the 2004 Z06, which recorded one lap of 7'56". The 2005 would not be quite as good. We will be there in April with a production built Z06, and hope to get a good time for that one."
http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=70
The 2005 he's referring to is obviously the C6, and he is clearly saying that there had been no time recorded for the C6.
Now, 7:40 vs 7:43 for the C6 Z06. This was posted by the Vette owner in Germany who broke the news:
"REKORD WAR NICHT DRIN
Gerade erst GT1-Klassensieger in Le Mans, gab Jan Magnusson kurz darauf am Nürburgring Gas. Mit der Corvette Z06 sollte der Rundenrekord fallen - knackige Werbung für die neue Sport-Corvette. Doch mehr als gute 7.40 Minuten war nicht drin. Der Nordschleifen-Rekord für Serienautos hält weiterhin ein Donkervoort RS: 7.18.01!
Let me try to translate:
RECORD WAS NOT POSSIBLE
Just won the Le Mans GT!-Class, Jan Magnusson pushed the pedal at the Nürburgring. With the Corvette Z06 should the old record fallen - spicy advertisement for the new Sport-Corvette. But more than just(!) 7 minutes 40 seconds was not to archive. The Nordschleifen(northern track)-Record for not modified cars is still with the Donkervoort RS: 7.18.01!
Notice the "just more than 7:40" bit. 7:43 = "just more than 7:40"? Sure, why not? In other words, 7:40 was not specifically mentioned by anybody as a time for the Z06, but taken completely and in context the time appears to be "just more than 7:40."
^^^ Although the 7m40s was also hinted to by some insiders we know - insiders who did NOT get the 7m40s from the same source... ;)
And as to the "C6 time reported by Dave Hill" - there are some folks who swear blind to being at the banquet where Dave Hill announced the C6 did 7m56s time.
I will post that whole scenario one day.
Needless to say there is more heresay and controversy surrounding 3 seconds in the lifetime of one preproduction Corvette, than all th gossip combined for some Italian cars ... ;) :P
pharzo
07-18-2005, 09:23 AM
Needless to say there is more heresay and controversy surrounding 3 seconds in the lifetime of one preproduction Corvette, than all th gossip combined for some Italian cars ... ;) :P
Maybe because they don't need to stir up stuff like this to sell cars :prr:
Needless to say there is more heresay and controversy surrounding 3 seconds in the lifetime of one preproduction Corvette, than all th gossip combined for some Italian cars ... ;) :P
Maybe because they don't need to stir up stuff like this to sell cars :prr:
Nice thought, but the Corvette being the longest running single performance car model in the history of Automobiles, with the most enthusiastic and active "family" the world over.. NONE of the interest is stirred up my the manufacturer - it's all generated, supported and answered by the family members... ;)
But we understand how this loyalty to the car's heritage could be confused with loyalty to General Motors.. ;) hehe
ae86_16v
07-18-2005, 10:01 AM
Late to the game here. . . but what's the Blue Devil?
To clear some things up, I don't think Dave Hill ever specified a 7:56 time at the 'Ring for the C6. That time comes from John Heinricy's testing of the C5 Z06 Commemorative Edition, and was reportedly "leaked" by Corvette product manager Harlan Charles in an interview with a Vette enthusiast magazine. The official line from GM was that that time was "under 8 minutes". Dave Hill has subsequently verified that time.
As of December 2004 (well after the 7:56 time attributed to the C6 was erroneously spread through various media), Dave Hill did say:
"The last time we ran for time was on the 2004 Z06, which recorded one lap of 7'56". The 2005 would not be quite as good. We will be there in April with a production built Z06, and hope to get a good time for that one."
http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=70
The 2005 he's referring to is obviously the C6, and he is clearly saying that there had been no time recorded for the C6.
Now, 7:40 vs 7:43 for the C6 Z06. This was posted by the Vette owner in Germany who broke the news:
"REKORD WAR NICHT DRIN
Gerade erst GT1-Klassensieger in Le Mans, gab Jan Magnusson kurz darauf am Nürburgring Gas. Mit der Corvette Z06 sollte der Rundenrekord fallen - knackige Werbung für die neue Sport-Corvette. Doch mehr als gute 7.40 Minuten war nicht drin. Der Nordschleifen-Rekord für Serienautos hält weiterhin ein Donkervoort RS: 7.18.01!
Let me try to translate:
RECORD WAS NOT POSSIBLE
Just won the Le Mans GT!-Class, Jan Magnusson pushed the pedal at the Nürburgring. With the Corvette Z06 should the old record fallen - spicy advertisement for the new Sport-Corvette. But more than just(!) 7 minutes 40 seconds was not to archive. The Nordschleifen(northern track)-Record for not modified cars is still with the Donkervoort RS: 7.18.01!
Notice the "just more than 7:40" bit. 7:43 = "just more than 7:40"? Sure, why not? In other words, 7:40 was not specifically mentioned by anybody as a time for the Z06, but taken completely and in context the time appears to be "just more than 7:40."
Here is one of the sources that helped spread the "C6 7m56s" rumour.
Originally posted by rockettc
This is the history of the C6 7:56 time as compiled by the author (me) and was on another forum and has been somewhat modified:
May 2004 at Cruise-in V, Dave Hill states that a pre-production C6 went 7:56 at the Ring.
August 2004 AutoCar says C6 went 7:56 at the Ring.
Dec 2004 in the "Ask Dave Hill" area of www.crossedflags.com Dave is quoted as saying that the 2005 C6 time would not be quite as good as the C5 Z's 7:56. He didn't say it could or should be as fast as the C5 Z's 7:56, he said it wouldn't (or wasn't perhaps) be as fast. He also didn't say when this track test was performed. As Dave Hill said:
"The last time we ran for time was on the 2004 Z06, which recorded one lap of 7'56". The 2005 would not be quite as good. We will be there in April with a production built Z06, and hope to get a good time for that one."
So the "official" time for a pre-production C6 is 7:56 according to what Dave said in May 2004 at the Cruise-in. The "official" time for a 2005 (production?) C6 according to "Ask Dave Hill" from Dec 2004 is slower than 7:56 but we really don't know what that time is.
Also from the "Ask Dave Hill" article:
"We have been travelling to Germany with C5 prototypes and C6 mules and prototypes every year, sometimes twice per year, since 2000."
So unless GM went to the Ring twice in 2004, these two different quotes from May and Dec from Dave Hill could be describing the SAME C6 track test. Note though, Dave Hill is talking about prototypes and not production models.
Also, where did Autocar 2004 August get its information that the C6 went 7:56? Production or pre-production?
It's possible that GM has driven the C6 for time again at the Ring but I doubt it. The main focus now will be on C6Z times.
I too am tired of discussing this. When it comes up again I'm just going to ignore it. Well, at least I'm going to try!
So - you can see how 153 lap times for the same 3 cars can hit the Net and get a life of their own... ;)
Toronto
07-18-2005, 06:32 PM
Late to the game here. . . but what's the Blue Devil?
a wanna b F430cs :twisted:
err... I mean a over hyped sports car with "racing" in its blood and stonger v-8 under the hood :D
5vz-fe
07-18-2005, 06:36 PM
Just agree to sell you soul and u will see him :mrgreen: The usual red one is on summer holiday.
Late to the game here. . . but what's the Blue Devil?
a wanna b F430cs :twisted:
err... I mean a over hyped sports car with "racing" in its blood and stonger v-8 under the hood :D
It's not a wannabe anything - the C6 Z06 will already blow the F430CS back to spaghetti-ville.
It will simply be a factory warranteed tuner car - tuned by GM, just like the thousands of other tuned Z06's currently out there at the moment.
See - while you wannabe snobs and posers dream about your f-cars - we true enthusiasts embrace and drive ours.
:)
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 07:13 PM
See - while you wannabe snobs and posers dream about your f-cars - we true enthusiasts embrace and drive ours.
:)
THanks for the insults, too bad it's not my thing to talk shit.
5vz-fe
07-18-2005, 07:15 PM
lol...here we go again
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 07:17 PM
Nice thought, but the Corvette being the longest running single performance car model in the history of Automobiles, with the most enthusiastic and active "family" the world over.. NONE of the interest is stirred up my the manufacturer - it's all generated, supported and answered by the family members... ;)
But we understand how this loyalty to the car's heritage could be confused with loyalty to General Motors.. ;) hehe
Oh you gotta be kidding me. You mean the longest running poser car. Shit I didnt notice one manual Vette sell at Barette jackson. Should I even talk about the people that bid on them...
I never seen anybody more blind then you.
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 07:29 PM
It's not a wannabe anything - the C6 Z06 will already blow the F430CS back to spaghetti-ville.
oh so there is an F430CS? Holly shit were did you get that? Your reliable underground sources?
Fanboys make me laugh.
The statement is simply stating in it's current form it will more than be able to handle what ever this future mdoel will be :)
nthfinity
07-18-2005, 08:42 PM
im in an argument with a guy at kzoorice.com about the ns lap time..
I find it really hard to believe that a 3100lbs 500hp car can even come close to the performance of a 3000lbs 605hp Carrera GT or numerous of the other race prepped cars you mentioned. On the other hand, if you added another 100hp to the vette and dropped 200lbs, then that would make a significant difference. I'm an engineering manager for the company that is making the pistons for both the Z06 and it's supercharger big brother. I'll ask our product engineer working on this program tomorrow and see what they say.
im waiting to hear the next responce on oh the vette doesnt compare against a 911... or somehow how my arguments dont stack up :lol:
but basically i did agree, that 13+ seconds from a CGT is nowhere near its performance level
graywolf624
07-18-2005, 08:49 PM
Only fools disrespect Sportauto and Horst. You Said Sportauto didnt have a professionel driver. Obviosly you were 100% wrong. The best part, he's the only driver doing the supertests.
Your first part yet again.. I already said so hes not your average paper bloke. Hes still only had a few laps with the car as opposed to a guy who races corvettes. He also wasnt the person driving the zo6, meaning its completely moot. You cant compare times from two different drivers, especially when your talking about someone with a few laps in the car versus someone who drives one similar all the time. You can not ever compare two drivers times in different cars and make comments. Regardless of skill level overall even the knowledge of how the car responds or the track makes a difference as well.
And just to be inflamatory yet again.. Sport auto hes still not winning lemans.. Hes not a former f1 test driver. Just being professional, and even being good, doesnt necessarily mean hes going to run similar times in the same car.
I'm gonna post your quote as more "Supercharged Vette" proof ;)
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 09:03 PM
Only fools disrespect Sportauto and Horst. You Said Sportauto didnt have a professionel driver. Obviosly you were 100% wrong. The best part, he's the only driver doing the supertests.
Your first part yet again.. I already said so hes not your average paper bloke. Hes still only had a few laps with the car as opposed to a guy who races corvettes. He also wasnt the person driving the zo6, meaning its completely moot. You cant compare times from two different drivers, especially when your talking about someone with a few laps in the car versus someone who drives one similar all the time. You can not ever compare two drivers times in different cars and make comments. Regardless of skill level overall even the knowledge of how the car responds or the track makes a difference as well.
And just to be inflamatory yet again.. Sport auto hes still not winning lemans.. Hes not a former f1 test driver. Just being professional, and even being good, doesnt necessarily mean hes going to run similar times in the same car.
Why you trying so hard at making an excuse for the Vettes SA lap? Man you guys try to cover up every single whole arent you.
Anyway in my opinion when lapping NS its more about track knowledge. Both drivers are obviously pro's and in this case Id give the advantage to the SA driver.
Anyway the guy who set the lap for the Vette wins Le Mans in a C5R. If you think C6 and the C5R bare any resemblance then you couldnt be more wrong.
And when the driver is of a world class level it only takes him a short time to adapt and be fast in whatever is thrown at him.
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 09:08 PM
The statement is simply stating in it's current form it will more than be able to handle what ever this future mdoel will be :)
Simply a statement based on what exactly? :roll: Nothing. They are only starting to review the car in the mags and your oh so quick to make assumptions. Only thing we have on the F430 so far is a top gear time which is useless anyway but even then the F430 laps .6 slower on a tight ass track with bad rubber. Swap the rubber and it will be over at least 1.5 faster.
graywolf624
07-18-2005, 09:16 PM
^^ He drives a c6r now..
Im making no excuses.. Im telling you to make a comment about the difference between the zo6 time and the c6 time from 2 different drivers is however useless.
And when the driver is of a world class level it only takes him a short time to adapt and be fast in whatever is thrown at him.
Fast yeah.. As fast as someone who drives one regularly.. Hell no.
Anyway in my opinion when lapping NS its more about track knowledge. Both drivers are obviously pro's and in this case Id give the advantage to the SA driver.
Magnuson has enough background with ns that I think his car knowledge outweighs.
As for your last thing.. Magnuson drives a c6r at the moment.
SFDMALEX
07-18-2005, 09:30 PM
^^ He drives a c6r now..
Fine. Still barely comprable. :wink: You cant compare a 550 to a Prodrive 550. You cant compare a C6R to a C6. You cant compare a DTM Merc to any other Merc on the street.
.Fast yeah.. As fast as someone who drives one regularly.. Hell no.
Fine...
Magnuson has enough background with ns that I think his car knowledge outweighs.
Ok, I dont know of his history there so I give you that one.
Anyway Magnuson didnt drive all the other laps which we use as reference. And thats SA :wink: And since you stress so much the importance of the driver his time is ultimately useless for all the arguments on this forum, so we have to wait for the SA driver to drive his lap.
I'm sure ferrari test drivers could lap the 360CS in 7:50 flat if I am to go by what you are saying. :wink:
graywolf624
07-18-2005, 10:35 PM
so we have to wait for the SA driver to drive his lap.
I'm sure ferrari test drivers could lap the 360CS in 7:50 flat if I am to go by what you are saying.
Exactly, and its possible.
nthfinity
07-18-2005, 11:51 PM
I'm gonna post your quote as more "Supercharged Vette" proof ;) go for it, the guy works for some company near Ann Arbor, Mi... and his name is Dave :P
a little extra work might provide the name of the company...
graywolf624
07-19-2005, 06:08 PM
sigh.. pile on mentality brembo...
I already admited I was wrong about the sport auto guy.. But as I've said repeatedly I wouldnt trust the difference between 2 different time for a car with two different drivers on any car.
Didnt you know guys.. Im a tiffosi.. Id take the ferrari over the vette every day of the week. I'm meerely telling you that time is right.. Whether the ferrari has an adequate time or not.. *shrug..* You think people would figure out when I tell them one of my life goals is to own a 308..(laugh all you want, a man can have his nostalgia).
Notice my very first post on the top elluded to the idiocy of taking times from two different drivers.. Im nothing but consistant.
Lap times are like dyno charts - they are indicators of current achieved performance - not absolute future potential ;)
number77
07-20-2005, 06:28 PM
Well, they were designing the car partially around that track initially. They ended up having to change the brake design because they weren't getting enough air to cool the brakes. They also may have tested it on different tires and that could account for 3 seconds on a track as big as this one.
Yep - 3 seconds is the time it takes to round the last right hander and go donw the short start finish straight to get to the start line.
Thats it...
nthfinity
07-23-2005, 12:52 AM
a danish magazine printed a story with Jan, and some MUST SEE shots!!!
ALL CREDIT TO ORIGINLAL POSTER AND SCANNER "GrantG"
FROM DC.
This photo kicks ass.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9959/887014439corvettenbrmagscan1tv.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=887014439corvettenbrmagscan1tv.jpg)
Article translated:
Thought this would be interesting to you all.
Scanned from a recent issue of "Bilmagasinet" - danish car mag.
Interview with Jan Magnussen about (among other things) his record lap at NBR.
Here´s a translation:
[Top pic, Magnussen and Vette:]
Thursday morning, Southern Germany. General Motors have discreetly rented the legendary german Nürburgring track for an hour between 7 and 8 in the morning.
The temperature is more comfortable than at Le Mans, and the track is empty apart from a couple of early rising spy photographers.
It takes more than a blue Vette to exite them - they recognize it, it´s the Z06 version, the brutal Vette with 500 BHP. What they do not know, is that it´s Jan Magnussen behind the wheel.
The objective is to beat Walther Rörhl´s laptime in a Porsce GT3 RS - it´s 7:43,0 min for the 20,8 km heavily varied track with 73 corners.
The record was set in 2004 in a standard version of the Porsche.
[Splash in middle]
Jan made 7:42,9 thereby beating the Porsche GT3 RS by 0,1 sec.
[Two lower photos]
"The photo is taken at Flugplatz. I´m going 240-250 km/h at full throttle in 4th gear and the car is actually jumping twice: After the first jump it lands so hard that it takes off again, as you can see in the second picture. As it lands the second time I have to take a sharp right immediately after.
The car is a standard car with street setup - had it been my racer it would hardly have left the tarmac. At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline). At NBR there are no run-off areas like other tracks,. You simply have to stay on the track. When you are halfway around the 20 km, you think it´s a good thing there are only half as many places left you risk running off the track" Jan says.
[About the track and the car]
"The stree Corbette has virtually no grip compared to my race car which has a large rear spoiler. But it does have almost as many BHPs as my Le Mans racer and is almost as fast. The rev limiter sets in at 7000 rpms, and it does have more than 500 BHPs.
It´s fast.At the record attempt I drove 2 x 2 laps with a cooldown lap inbetween for both mine and the car´s sake.
I couldn´t have driven one single lap more. I wouldn´t have liked to drive a single meter (3 feet) more with myself at the wheel at that speed", Jan finishes.
Again all credit to the original poster and scanner.
Thanks
SFDMALEX
07-23-2005, 01:46 AM
Cool looking pictures. BTW This is the first time I heard of the RSs .43lap :oops:
nthfinity
07-23-2005, 07:09 AM
Cool looking pictures. BTW This is the first time I heard of the RSs .43lap :oops:same here, but it makes sence... wasnt HvS' lap 7:47?
SFDMALEX
07-23-2005, 09:40 AM
Cool looking pictures. BTW This is the first time I heard of the RSs .43lap :oops:same here, but it makes sence... wasnt HvS' lap 7:47?
I believe the 47 was the SA lap time. And 43 is Rohls time I guess.
Funny how this proves Grays argument :lol:
StanAE86
07-24-2005, 12:32 PM
I just read that same post (nthfinity) at Roadfly:
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e46m3/6853968-1.html
Like the poster at Roadfly, "Standard" would indicate to me that it's on those runflats - although it would be an unmodified "standard" Z06 issued item...
Just_me
07-24-2005, 06:38 PM
WOW 120hp extra and beating GT3 RS by 0.1 sec. Well done.
WOW 120hp extra and beating GT3 RS by 0.1 sec. Well done.
Unlike the GT3 RS - a very limited edition, small market uber version of the already killer limited GT3, the C6 Z06 is a mass produced car that is street legal in all global markets - as it ships.
So - in that light, who cares if the car has extra power on tap - you have no proof that it needed the extra power to beat it's time.
nthfinity
07-24-2005, 11:06 PM
WOW 120hp extra and beating GT3 RS by 0.1 sec. Well done.
Unlike the GT3 RS - a very limited edition, small market uber version of the already killer limited GT3, the C6 Z06 is a mass produced car that is street legal in all global markets - as it ships.
So - in that light, who cares if the car has extra power on tap - you have no proof that it needed the extra power to beat it's time.
well, im just cerious how the RS did at Flugplatz.. how much air (since the RS has a pretty aggressive front facia/rear wing) and what speed it did... i think a couple individual corner comparisons would give a real good idea of a comparison. ... the vett' was hitting 240-250 KPH (149-155mph) at the crest.
its one damn fine set of pictures :-D
Guibo
07-25-2005, 05:25 AM
WOW 120hp extra and beating GT3 RS by 0.1 sec. Well done.
WOW, because hp is all that matters in lap times. :?
Hey, you forgot
1) gearing (advantage: GT3 RS)
2) weight distribution for traction while accelerating (advantage: GT3 RS)
3) weight distribution for braking (advantage: GT3 RS; nevermind the composite ceramic brakes)
4) tires (advantage: GT3 RS; throw some runflats on the Porsche, and then run it again; or, conversely, throw some R-compound non runflats onto the Z06 and lap it again)
5) Walter Rohrl vs Jan Magnussen at the 'Ring (advantage: GT3 RS; you seriously think Magnussen knows that track better than Rohrl?)
Why not examine the Z06's time against that of the 555 PS mid-engine exotic Pagani Zonda S, or the 620-hp TechArt GT Street, both of which have more power and slightly better power/wt ratios, and say GM did a pretty decent job?
Just_me
07-25-2005, 08:47 AM
WOW 120hp extra and beating GT3 RS by 0.1 sec. Well done.
WOW, because hp is all that matters in lap times. :?
Hey, you forgot
1) gearing (advantage: GT3 RS)
2) weight distribution for traction while accelerating (advantage: GT3 RS)
3) weight distribution for braking (advantage: GT3 RS; nevermind the composite ceramic brakes)
4) tires (advantage: GT3 RS; throw some runflats on the Porsche, and then run it again; or, conversely, throw some R-compound non runflats onto the Z06 and lap it again)
5) Walter Rohrl vs Jan Magnussen at the 'Ring (advantage: GT3 RS; you seriously think Magnussen knows that track better than Rohrl?)
Why not examine the Z06's time against that of the 555 PS mid-engine exotic Pagani Zonda S, or the 620-hp TechArt GT Street, both of which have more power and slightly better power/wt ratios, and say GM did a pretty decent job?
I know horsepowers isnt everything, just look at M3 CSL or NSX-R. If you dont have the horsepowers work on the chassi.
And I dont really care about carmanufactures laptimes, its all about markeeting. I will wait for Sportauto, an independent carmagazine.
graywolf624
07-25-2005, 10:12 PM
Funny how this proves Grays argument
You expected any less :D
Well - I just heard some interesting news. This came right from the horses mouth:
Mr Heinrichy also was in Germany and did some hot laps in the C6 Z06 and turned in a 7m42s as well. :)
Interestingly, he was not as out of shape as Jan was through Flugpatz.
Which leads on the believe that Jan gained back what ever he lost with his motocross moves - and than John must have had a moment or 2 some place else on the track. :)
This plays into the hands of the "But the Nurburgring is a stupid benchmark" folks ;) :P
nthfinity
07-27-2005, 08:44 PM
Well - I just heard some interesting news. This came right from the horses mouth:
Mr Heinrichy also was in Germany and did some hot laps in the C6 Z06 and turned in a 7m42s as well. :)
Interestingly, he was not as out of shape as Jan was through Flugpatz.
Which leads on the believe that Jan gained back what ever he lost with his motocross moves - and than John must have had a moment or 2 some place else on the track. :)
This plays into the hands of the "But the Nurburgring is a stupid benchmark" folks ;) :P
well god damn!
you know what that means, the new Z is extreamly drivable at high speed, very very good predictability, and balance in its chassis... of course, some of us already knew that :)
espen
07-29-2005, 08:21 AM
Sport Auto ran the C6 around the ring at 8.15. Pretty good review of the C6, seems like the Corvette has grown up. However the best 0-100kph time they managed was 5,2 seconda - a full 1,1 seconds off the claimed pace! :shock: Sport Auto aquired and tested a second C6 in order to verify this and managed 5,4 on that one. Though respectable times in deed, they are nowhere near the claimed times.
Main compalints seem to be that there's a lot of lift, 54kg at front and 28k at rear by 200kph. (IIRC, the TT produced 60kg at 200kph and look how that was recieved ;)) In addition, particularly the slow and hevy gearchange recieves a few comments. Overall it does pretty well, seems Porsche will have to come up with a sensational GT3 now :mrgreen:
graywolf624
07-29-2005, 12:39 PM
Not to dispute it yet again, but IVe personally seen a c6 run a low 4s 60 at a drag strip with a guy who was a boob driving no less. Perhaps they somehow screwed the europeans yet again?
nthfinity
07-29-2005, 05:43 PM
Not to dispute it yet again, but IVe personally seen a c6 run a low 4s 60 at a drag strip with a guy who was a boob driving no less. Perhaps they somehow screwed the europeans yet again? perhaps they were shifting from 1rst to 4th :P
my guess is that they arent used to launching the vette, and/or the tires/pavement/ weather conditions. ive seen c6's get the jump on C5 Z's until about 50 mph, so im sure its less than 5 seconds
Maybe they forgot to rev past 2500rpm.. you know non-V8 fans think "our" engines are all low reving - maybe they don't know it can rev to the redline... :P
espen
07-31-2005, 02:25 PM
Yes, the only possible explanation must be that Horst von Saurma can't drive a Corvette. He can match or beat Porsches 0-100kph times, but the Corvette is a different story of course.
A low 4 sec 60ft... I can beat that with my gf's Passat TDI :lol:
number77
08-13-2005, 03:46 AM
Well, they were designing the car partially around that track initially. They ended up having to change the brake design because they weren't getting enough air to cool the brakes. They also may have tested it on different tires and that could account for 3 seconds on a track as big as this one.
I forgot to say that this was for the C6 not the C6 ZO6.
I have heard from a very very reliable source (he is involved with the z06) that the car with the time recorded was a z06, and not a supercharged one.
7:42.9 --- 160.207 km/h – Corvette Z06 -Jan Magnusen
Well, they were designing the car partially around that track initially. They ended up having to change the brake design because they weren't getting enough air to cool the brakes. They also may have tested it on different tires and that could account for 3 seconds on a track as big as this one.
I forgot to say that this was for the C6 not the C6 ZO6.
I have heard from a very very reliable source (he is involved with the z06) that the car with the time recorded was a z06, and not a supercharged one.
7:42.9 --- 160.207 km/h – Corvette Z06 -Jan Magnusen
We knew this the day it happened... which is kinda why I posted the topics I did :P
Not exactly news this late in the game ;)
Cornutu
08-13-2005, 11:38 AM
what was the enzo nurnburg time? i googled but cant find
5vz-fe
08-13-2005, 11:41 AM
what was the enzo nurnburg time? i googled but cant find
I don't think there's an official one.......but there's one for the CGT.
Cornutu
08-13-2005, 11:46 AM
google doesnt bring that up either, anyone happen to know?
also if you could tell me how you found it that would be sweeeet
bmagni
08-13-2005, 11:48 AM
google doesnt bring that up either, anyone happen to know?
also if you could tell me how you found it that would be sweeeet
there no time on the enzo, the cgt's time is 7.32 its posted in porsche central, and it was an SportAuto test. theres a topic on all the SA tests, search for it in JW
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