SA Supertest Corvette C6 test results

[st-anger]

lap times:

NS: 8.15min
(8.18 - C5 Commemorative Edition )

HHR: 1.14,8min
(1.15,9 - C5 Commemorative Edition )

performance:

0-100kmh: 5.2sec
0-200: 16.8sec

1492kg -> 3.7kg/hp


...full scan and translation to follow asap in "mag scans"

[RC45]

Danke - should be an interesting read.

It is such a pity that Europe only got the C5 Z51 Coupe in "Commemerative Edition", instead of the full C5 Z06.

For some reason GM thought Europeans wouldn't want the high-performance version, so they shipped you guys the slow, heavy, small tyre equipped cars ;)

[SPEEDKILLAR]

Naahhh, nobody want's them anyway :wink:

[RC45]

Naahhh, nobody want's them anyway :wink:

Sure.. by the way - look how FEW Audi's, MB's and BMW's can even lap under 8 minutes.

Slow, underpowered, heavy, badly handling cars must really be in demand in Europe these days :P

[Ghostbat]

Sure.. by the way - look how FEW Audi's, MB's and BMW's can even lap under 8 minutes.

And pretty much all GM models can do sub 8 min laps :wink:

[RC45]

Sure.. by the way - look how FEW Audi's, MB's and BMW's can even lap under 8 minutes.

And pretty much all GM models can do sub 8 min laps :wink:

Actually yes - the no-excuse performance model that GM makes - the C5 Z06 (and now the C6 Z06) can and do.

GM is not a performance company - they happen to produce 1 model - BMW on the other hand, claim to be a performance company ;)

[dingo]

here we go again........ :roll:

[Ghostbat]

GM is not a performance company - they happen to produce 1 model - BMW on the other hand, claim to be a performance company ;)

..And most BM:s are faster than the average GM car..

400bhp in a sportscar and 0-100km/h in 5.2sec is pathetic :D
Compare that with a proper sportscar from Stuttgart with only 325bhp and equally fast..

[RC45]

here we go again........ :roll:

Damn straight "here we go again" - after all these years and still no credit for a genuine sub 8 min 'Ring lapper, that is affordable, comfortable and able to compete and beat the "best the others" have to offer.

Yet all we get crammed down our throtas all day long is "BMW this, Audi that, Mercedes another, Ferrari blah blah blah blah" :P

:)

Well - when you do a back to back anlysis it seems the "best" of the others is actually rather mediocre when you line all competitors up.

:P

GM is not a performance company - they happen to produce 1 model - BMW on the other hand, claim to be a performance company ;)

..And most BM:s are faster than the average GM car..

Nobody has claimed they weren't. So what's the point?


400bhp in a sportscar and 0-100km/h in 5.2sec is pathetic :D
Compare that with a proper sportscar from Stuttgart with only 325bhp and equally fast..
Again? Your point? The C5 Coupe (and C6 Coupe) is a stock Carrera/Boxter competitor - and by the numbers in a real world all conditions (the Nurburgring) does that quite well thank you.

:)

[Ghostbat]

RC45. Do you seriously mean that the 997 Carrera is the best that Porsche has to offer?

Yes I know that the yanks make great bang for buck cars, no doubt about it. What you don't get is quality and refinement but let's leave it at that, ok?

[RC45]

RC45. Do you seriously mean that the 997 Carrera is the best that Porsche has to offer?

OK - I am going to type this slowly, so you can keep up reading it. :)

You are obviously clueless as to the difference between the base C5 Coupe and the C5 Z06, and the base C6 Coupe and the upcoming C6 Z06.

I was quite obviously comparing the 2 manufacturers base models. For you to try insinuate otherwise, or even "misread" the info provided, is simply proof of a severe bias that blinds you to the information provided by the above posts. ;)

Again - the base C5 Coupe and the base C6 Coupe are aimed at and competently compete with the base Carrera and Boxster (and a number of other vehicles at a realworld definitive venue such as the Nurburgring.

But I am sure you DID NOT know this.

Here educate yourself - please.

http://img229.echo.cx/img229/2205/file09065uw.th.jpg (http://img229.echo.cx/my.php?image=file09065uw.jpg)

OK - now that we have your education taken care of - lets address the next point ...


Yes I know that the yanks make great bang for buck cars, no doubt about it. What you don't get is quality and refinement but let's leave it at that, ok?
You have obviously never actually seen, let alone sat in or driven either a 911 or a C5 or C6 - if you had of, you would see that once behind the wheel all the "magazine crap" about plasticy this or refinement that is not very apparent at all.

Having had honest, friendly true auto enthusiast (read as not wannabe snobs) observe themselves that there is not much between the Carerra interior and the Corvette interior.

Layout fit, finish etc are on a par. But you would know this if you did a back to back Carrera to Corvette comparison - just because Jeremy Clarkson says so, doesn't make it so :P

Oh - and when you are finished your home work, we can talk about 911 Turbo vs C5 Z06 vs F360CS and GT2 vs C6 Z06 vs F430 numbers and performance ;)

If only people would behave like auto enthusiasts and actually acknowledge and enjoy high performance cars for what they are - and not try to prove them to be ego and status penis extensions :P

[pharzo]

You have to get over this "bang for buck" crap...the vette is great car in its' own right...

a freakin 7m40s at the ring!!!

forget money, that's an awesome time for cars THREE times what the c6z06 costs

edit: just saw RC's post above...oh well :bah:

[RC45]

Anywhooo... st-anger posted the C6 base model SA test results, so we should stick with base model for base model comparisons.

[Ghostbat]

You are very funny RC45..

First of all I talking about companies base models. I was not aware of that Corvette is a carmanufacterer..

Thanks for the pic but I have already "educated" myself the first time it was posted..

Actually I have been in both the C5 Vette and a 996. The difference in quality is like day and night and I'm quite sure the 997 is just as great or better than the 996.The Vette was just cheap plastic all over whereas the 911 is leather and luxury. The way you are speaking it sounds more like you have never been in a european high end car. It's easy to talk about "magazine crap" but most of us understand that it's not crap but the truth. Maybe that hurts? Watch the 997 Carrera S spank the C6 in Motortrends comparison test. Yes that is an american show folks :)

I see it like this. American cars are absolutely great bang for buck but people that can afford a Ferrari (not me included) will never buy a Chevrolet. And that's not about being a snob..

[graywolf624]

^^Im staying out of this arguement other then to say.. Anyone who trusts motortrend needs their head examined.. It isnt a review magazine, its a walking advertisement for the highest bidder.

[Ghostbat]

^^Im staying out of this arguement other then to say.. Anyone who trusts motortrend needs their head examined.. It isnt a review magazine, its a walking advertisement for the highest bidder.

So what your saying is that your (read americans) opinions aren't worth a shit :wink: :?:

[graywolf624]

*since when is the opinion of one magazine the opinion of everyone in america? Ill remember that the next time we talk about your country. I guess all of sweeden is lazy people that try to run peoples lives. Hey its true for our sweeden branch, so its gotta be true for you too right?

Motor trend had the new beatle and pt cruiser as cars of the year.. enough said.

[Ghostbat]

No you shouldnt trust motortrend.. Saying motortrend is your typical american is like saying nazis are current typical germans.

In other words, its them specifically, not the group.. that you need to assign mistrust too.

Dude I trust any carshow that puts the 997 and the C6 head to head and has the 997 as the winner. When it's the other way around I'm not so sure. :)

To Gray.. Have you heard any Swedes saying that we are lazy and try to run other peoples lives? At least I held this discussion at a "stick to the subject" level but it's always fun to see when people run out of arguements and not really understand that they are discrediting themsleves in the end. But plz dont't get personal Mr Greywolfe. I have no beef with Americans and I really don't think you have with Swedes either..

[graywolf624]

Yet again...

Motor trend had the new beatle and pt cruiser as cars of the year.. enough said.
Still trust them?

[Ghostbat]

Yet again...

Motor trend had the new beatle and pt cruiser as cars of the year.. enough said.
Still trust them?

Yet again. So what americans say shouldn't really be taken seriously becasue it's crap.. :?:

You see in Sweden/Europe a PT Cruiser would hardly be crowned car of the year..We set are standards slightly higher..

[graywolf624]

To Gray.. Have you heard any Swedes saying that we are lazy and try to run other peoples lives? At least I held this discussion at a "stick to the subject" level but it's always fun to see when people run out of arguements and not really understnad that they are discrediting themsleves in the end. But plz dont't get personal Mr Greywolfe. I have no beef with Americans and I really don't think you have with Swedes either..

The point was not to be personal.. Its called sarcasm.. Its supposed to show how rediculous you are for comparing saying a magazine is a pos with crappy opinions to saying somehow all americans are that way.. Its just as stupid.

Yet again motor trend isnt america.. It isnt some vote by americans.. Its a business entity, just like my coworkers at my company from sweeden. Whether they are lazy idiots or not, it has nothing to do with the rest of the people in sweeden.. Nor does my take on a trash magazine have anything to do with the opinions of America.

Come on is it that difficult? What is true for a sub group always does not necessarily mean its true for the main, its simple entry level logic.

You see in Sweden/Europe a PT Cruiser would hardly be crowned car of the year..We set are standards slightly higher..
Im quite sure you have shitty magazines that do the same thing (dont make me do it, cause I can in a heartbeat).. Just as we have much better magazines that set the bar differently. Yet again, it isnt Americas car of the year or Americas opinion, its the opinion of the writers of the magazine.

[Ghostbat]

So Greywolfe. What would you chose if you had the possibility. 997 Carrera S or C6 Vette?


..
..my company from sweeden..

people in sweeden...


Maybe your coworkers can teach you how to spell my countries name? Now that's proper sarcasm for you 8)

Plz can't we all just get along and be friends..

[graywolf624]

Plz can't we all just get along and be friends..

We can if you quit assuming we are talking about countries. Realize we are talking about a magazine and the people who work their only. Ok?

997 Carrera S or C6 Vette?
While I wasnt even commenting on that, I personally would take the vette and use the tons of extra money elsewhere. The point was to tell you your agruement goes nowhere using motor trend.. at least try car and driver or road and track.


Maybe your coworkers can teach you how to spell my countries name?
I couldnt care if we spell Sweden A-m-e-r-i-c-a.. For the purpose of this discussion it was simply an analogy.

[Ghostbat]

When I talked about having the possibility to chose a car it was meant as money no object thing but the way you answered you gave away that you'd rather have the Porsche but it's to expensive.

If you stop Spelling Sweden like "Sweeden" we can propably get along..

Ok I agree that the "Americaan" car show Motortrend is rubbish..

[RC45]

You are very funny RC45..

First of all I talking about companies base models. I was not aware of that Corvette is a carmanufacterer..

Exactly which mode3ls do you think I am referring to when I say "base model vs base model"??? :roll:



Thanks for the pic but I have already "educated" myself the first time it was posted..

Apparently not - because if you had then you would know that similar generfuckingration base models are displaying simifuckinglar performance.

It is right there on the image that was posted.


Actually I have been in both the C5 Vette and a 996. The difference in quality is like day and night and I'm quite sure the 997 is just as great or better than the 996.The Vette was just cheap plastic all over whereas the 911 is leather and luxury.

Not even noticale or of any significance when dring and enjoying your car - but supposedly important to posers and wannabes.

The interiors are nothign to write home about- and have even had Porsche owners and enthusiasts make the same observations.


The way you are speaking it sounds more like you have never been in a european high end car.

More times than you would ever know or understand - high end? Carreras are a dime a dozen - even the friggen cops drive em :)


It's easy to talk about "magazine crap" but most of us understand that it's not crap but the truth. Maybe that hurts? Watch the 997 Carrera S spank the C6 in Motortrends comparison test. Yes that is an american show folks :)

I see it like this. American cars are absolutely great bang for buck but people that can afford a Ferrari (not me included) will never buy a Chevrolet. And that's not about being a snob..
Well - again you are obviously blind to the facts. Compariative performance is what both base models achieve.

And you would then need to inform the C5 Z06 and F360CS owners on the Z06 Forum that they are mistaken in the claim to own and enjoy their Z06's just as much as their CS's.

Looks like you are having the hard time accepting how well the Corvette fits in. :)

What's your Sveeedisch "local brand"? Oh yeah - The Vulva - thats it ;)

[graywolf624]

When I talked about having the possibility to chose a car it was meant as money no object thing but the way you answered you gave away that you'd rather have the Porsche but it's to expensive.

Thats like asking what I would do had I been born a billionare.. Whats the point, no ones going to give me a Porsche?

I intentionally wrote it as such last time, but I guess writing it correctly can be arranged.

[Ghostbat]

What's your "local brand"? Oh yeah - The Vulva - thats it


I'm getting a little tired of you yanks right now but I have nothing against "Vulvas". Actually a fan :)

Consider Koenigsegg as my local brand as it's built in Skåne. Guess you have no idea what Skåne is but hey that's not really a problem for me..

[RC45]

What's your "local brand"? Oh yeah - The Vulva - thats it


I'm getting a little tired of you yanks right now but I have nothing against "Vulvas". Actually a fan :)

Consider Koenigsegg as my local brand as it's built in Skåne. Guess you have no idea what Skåne is but hey that's not really a problem for me..
Again with the assuptions. ;)

What do you know about what I do and don't know? :) I am guessing you don't know where Grabouw is either.. :)

You are coming across as such an arrogant, pompous, stuckup Eurotrash wannabe that it's really good that I am no a "Yank" than you are civil :P :)

BTW you should close your fly, your bias is showing again.. ;) :P

I guess we just uncovered your true motivation - and it has nothing to do with cars or magazines. :)

[Ghostbat]

Have never claimed that I know what You Mr RC45 know or don't know. If you look closer you can see that I was guessing and that still stands. Think that most people from non nordic countries have a very small Idea about what Skåne is.

When someone is a great as I am some people mistake that for being arrogant :wink:

You are propably right about me being slightly biased I admit that. But hey you are propably a little biased too and I think most people are. Altough I'm notso biased towards european cars that I can't see fairly clearly.

You are very right. I have no idea where Grabouw is. But I know it's not a state in America. Skåne is - relatively speaking - a state in Sweden.^

Does closing my fly help? I thought the "Biass" was in the back.. Maybe you should pull you pants up so I don't have to watch you pale "biass"

Plz don't take it too seriously..

[SFDMALEX]

Am I supposed to be impressed by this time?

RC your telling me that the Z06 is going to lap some 25sec faster then the stock C6? That is fucked up.!

If thats so then the cars should not even share the same name, cause they are clearly tottaly different.

[RC45]

Am I supposed to be impressed by this time?

RC your telling me that the Z06 is going to lap some 25sec faster then the stock C6? That is fucked up.!

If thats so then the cars should not even share the same name, cause they are clearly tottaly different.

Who said anything about being impressed? ANd yes, there is that much of adifference between the C5 Coupe and C5 Z06 and the C6 Coupe and the C6 Z06.. ;) Hopefully now you understand why some of us buy the Z06 and don't even bother with the Coupe. Just as I would not really bother with a base Carrera either ;)

Remember. st-anger posted this with hoourable intentions of shaing the magazine test results.

The C6 Coupe is no more Z06 and the the Carrera S is a 911 Turbo or a GT2 or GT3. :)

[SFDMALEX]

You should just stop using the word "Vette" and switch to "Z06" :wink: Will save you some trouble.

[RC45]

You should just stop using the word "Vette" and switch to "Z06" :wink: Will save you some trouble.

Oh - trust me, we do :)

Same way you will hear a ZR1 owner correct some one calling their car a Corvette... heheh uhm no - it's a ZR1.

[bmagni]

Am I supposed to be impressed by this time?

RC your telling me that the Z06 is going to lap some 25sec faster then the stock C6? That is fucked up.!

If thats so then the cars should not even share the same name, cause they are clearly tottaly different.

its not 25 its 35 secs, so thats even more fucked up, i remain kinda skeptic to this new z06 doing such time, and now even more that the stock C6 did this time.
i still have some hope. ;)

[RC45]

Am I supposed to be impressed by this time?

RC your telling me that the Z06 is going to lap some 25sec faster then the stock C6? That is fucked up.!

If thats so then the cars should not even share the same name, cause they are clearly tottaly different.

its not 25 its 35 secs, so thats even more fucked up, i remain kinda skeptic to this new z06 doing such time, and now even more that the stock C6 did this time.
i still have some hope. ;)

Similar reaction to Porsche and F360 owners we meet on the street.

When kick their arse from here to next week they list the ricer excuses - including th "Yeah but it's just a Chevy" one. :)

Oh well - who truley gives a shit -I have a daily balst in my car. Nuff said :P

[nthfinity]

well, after having a subscription to motor trend for several years; i've yet to be more then disapointed with any head-to-head tests they've had...

dont forget, taht they also had (a great car, but not really COY material) the new T-bird as car of the year as well... even knowing a major defect, and not printing anything about it

also, they for some reason had a beetle cab. vs. a T-bird in winter driving comparison :roll: :roll: :?:

[gucom]

ok so RC45, just educating myself by the pic you posted on previous page...the base 996 carrera (1st model series with 3.4 engine) did a 'Ring lap of 8:18 minutes, and the base C5 did 8:40, wit the anniversary doing 8:18...so base carrera vs anniversary (i dont know what that car's specs are) are sort of even.
997 Carrera S (so not totally basic) does 'Ring in 8:05, C6 does it in 8:15..hard to tell, i dont know the performance difference between std and S 997.
based on the pictues i've seen i'd say the porsche interior looks more luxurious, but ive never been in either car. just 1 more comment, you were comparing the Z06 with the Turbo a while back...the Turbo is in no way an all out performance machine like the z06 is, for that you need a GT2...which happened to do a 7:46 'Ring lap...

[blah]

damn the Z06 is one bad ass machine. Not only is it 1 second faster in a 1/4 mile alone, but its 35 seconds faster around the ring. I would love to see a video of a C5 Z06 vs C6 Z06 vs C5 vs C6 from a 40 roll. :twisted:

[RC45]

just 1 more comment, you were comparing the Z06 with the Turbo a while back...the Turbo is in no way an all out performance machine like the z06 is, for that you need a GT2...which happened to do a 7:46 'Ring lap...

Actually you still need to educate yourself- the C5 Z06 (and the C6 Z06) are no where near as "exotic" as the GT2.

The Z06 and the 911 TT is the perfect comparison.

In fact even the F360CS with it's light weigh doors and other exotic materials and mechanisms needed is far above the Z06's level of sophistication.

Trust me, if GM produced a street car based on the race car that was based n the original street car it would so fucking exotic and fast it would blow everything except the FXX clean away.

Everyone so conveniently seems to forget that the development path from the 360 to the 360S first spent an entire seaon developing a track-only Challenge car - and that was further developed until the CS appeared.

In the mean time, the Corvette C5 spawned a Fixed Roof Coupe for 1999 witha 345hp base engine, this then lasted until 2000 - became a lightened 385bhp 2001 Z06 with wider wheels and sticky tyres - then was refined to culminate in the 405hp same weight Z16 in 2004.

All the while a DEDICATED ROAD CAR!!!

And this "lowly Chevy" then proceded to kick the living crap out of all comers and equals and betters many task-specific race-cars tunrned street cars.
Yet still no credit?

[gucom]

the GT2 isn't based on a race car either...its a more raw version of the Turbo, not like the GT3 which is more like a race car turned back to a road car. The Turbo is a very very fast sports car with everyday everywhere any weather usability, where the GT2 is a proper monster. I think in spirit the GT2 and Z06 arent that different

and i never said i dont give the corvette credit, im just comparing lap times for spiritually comparable cars here. The corvette is a great car, no doubt about it, just not for me. (also just a little off topic detail, the price difference between a vette and a porsche is much smaller here than in the US)

[SFDMALEX]

Trust me, if GM produced a street car based on the race car that was based n the original street car it would so fucking exotic and fast it would blow everything except the FXX clean away.

Ferrari never devoloped a car based on a race car :wink: Oh and neither did chevy so, that whole paragraph is pointless. "If" doesnt cut it, I thought you dont like ricer excuses :wink:


Everyone so conveniently seems to forget that the development path from the 360 to the 360S first spent an entire seaon developing a track-only Challenge car - and that was further developed until the CS appeared.


Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

First of you can make a challenge a car from a standart 360M, its as easy as bringing it a Ferrari shop. Its a standart 360M striped of its interior with an MM dash, stripped of one cat, slightly different exhaust. Has stiffer engine mounts and a racing clutch, and has a stiffer set ARBs.

No further devolpments were made on the cars. So I dont see were you got that "season developing a track only Challenge car"

All a CS is a stiffer 360M with sligthly more power and a stripped out interior...there are no "years of development".

[RC45]

Trust me, if GM produced a street car based on the race car that was based n the original street car it would so fucking exotic and fast it would blow everything except the FXX clean away.

Ferrari never devoloped a car based on a race car :wink: Oh and neither did chevy so, that whole paragraph is pointless. "If" doesnt cut it, I thought you dont like ricer excuses :wink:

Yes they do - you can witness all CS revisions :)

The success and essons learned in the race programs of team owners and testing are what constitute the changes made. :)


Everyone so conveniently seems to forget that the development path from the 360 to the 360S first spent an entire seaon developing a track-only Challenge car - and that was further developed until the CS appeared.


Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

First of you can make a challenge a car from a standart 360M, its as easy as bringing it a Ferrari shop. Its a standart 360M striped of its interior with an MM dash, stripped of one cat, slightly different exhaust. Has stiffer engine mounts and a racing clutch, and has a stiffer set ARBs.

No further devolpments were made on the cars. So I dont see were you got that "season developing a track only Challenge car"

All a CS is a stiffer 360M with sligthly more power and a stripped out interior...there are no "years of development".

Yes there are - if there were not, the 3 cars would have been released the same day :)

All those incrmental changes you mention, are as result of very careful analysis of race results and a myriad options.

There is a reason a 360 Challange is a gutted non-street-legal car - and there is a reason why the CS is as spartan and singl;e purpose as it is.

You cannot deny this one any way you slice it. :)

[RC45]

the GT2 isn't based on a race car either...its a more raw version of the Turbo, not like the GT3 which is more like a race car turned back to a road car. The Turbo is a very very fast sports car with everyday everywhere any weather usability, where the GT2 is a proper monster. I think in spirit the GT2 and Z06 arent that different

You could not be more wrong here.

The Z06 is the "very very fast sports car with everyday everywhere any weather usability" of Corvettes. :)

Think of the Lingenfelter Twin Turbo as the GT2 of Vettes... ;) :P - that's a monster ehehe :)



and i never said i dont give the corvette credit, im just comparing lap times for spiritually comparable cars here. The corvette is a great car, no doubt about it, just not for me. (also just a little off topic detail, the price difference between a vette and a porsche is much smaller here than in the US)

"Spiritually Comparable" cars - wow - that's a new one, at least you didn't the HP/L or valvle train layout argument ;) :P

[SFDMALEX]

360MC is not a race car. Its a stripped out street car with 95% of stock componemts. Its simply a re set car, with stock anti rolls bars set stiffer, not new race componemts. The only race compenets are the clutch and stiffer engine mounts(if you can call that a racing component)

Put the cat back in and an E brake and you have your "street legal" car. Pretty sure you would strugle to get a C5R or a 550GTC to pass as street legal.

Its not a race car because it has a stock road going motor in it. It doesnt rev higher nor does it have a different gearbox.

Sorry just cause it aint street legal doesnt make it a race car.

[gucom]

Yes there are - if there were not, the 3 cars would have been released the same day

so according to you, the fact that there were a couple of years between base C5 and Z06 also means that there was an extensive race program and that race car was turned into the Z06...yeah makes sense :?

All those incrmental changes you mention, are as result of very careful analysis of race results and a myriad options.

and nothing like that happens for the Z06? not 1 little part of the experiences of the C6R will be put into hte Z06?? lets, just for fun, real the catalog about the Z06 when it comes out, ok? :D


There is a reason a 360 Challange is a gutted non-street-legal car - and there is a reason why the CS is as spartan and singl;e purpose as it is.

ok here's the secret: WEIGHT IS SLOW so they stripped as much weight as possible from both cars, no rocket science in that

"Spiritually Comparable" cars - wow - that's a new one, at least you didn't the HP/L or valvle train layout argument


i think you understand that what i meant is they are comparable in spirit, in the goal they have, although you obviously dont agree with me on that

[RC45]

Yes there are - if there were not, the 3 cars would have been released the same day

so according to you, the fact that there were a couple of years between base C5 and Z06 also means that there was an extensive race program and that race car was turned into the Z06...yeah makes sense :?

No - and stop for a moment and think - there is no such thing as a Corvette Challenge car provided to race campaigners that is developed and improved by the factory for use in a single make series.

And if you clowns seem to think that "a Challenge car" is a street car with no muffler you are rather mistaken - all those incremental changes, like wheels, brakes, shocks, seats, body panels etc etc make the car a race-orientated development.

No such Corvette was ever produced. There is a dedicated race car developed from the street car platform that, in C5 form has not "been reinroduced to streets" with all the little lessons applied.

Why do you folks always have to come in and conduct these stupid arguments where you simply overlook the facts and logic and common sense just because you want your precious Ferrari of Porsche to remain looking good.? :roll:

Maybe I should go and maintain stupid assinine arguments in the "Italian" forum. :roll:



All those incrmental changes you mention, are as result of very careful analysis of race results and a myriad options.

and nothing like that happens for the Z06? not 1 little part of the experiences of the C6R will be put into hte Z06?? lets, just for fun, real the catalog about the Z06 when it comes out, ok? :D

Actually - since you want to pretend to know whats what, the C6 Z06 is strongly based on lessons learned and progress made by GM, the C5R teams and engine tuners during the years the C5R was campained.

Exactly the same way the F430 has been built on what has been learned from the 360 life cycle - upto and including all those special race-developed electronic gizmos, without which the F430 would just be an expensive Alfa. :roll:



There is a reason a 360 Challange is a gutted non-street-legal car - and there is a reason why the CS is as spartan and singl;e purpose as it is.

ok here's the secret: WEIGHT IS SLOW so they stripped as much weight as possible from both cars, no rocket science in that

You still don't get it then. The ability to remove, lighten and engineer the better lighter version is as a result of these special incremental changes in fucking other words the results of a number of years R&D


"Spiritually Comparable" cars - wow - that's a new one, at least you didn't the HP/L or valvle train layout argument


i think you understand that what i meant is they are comparable in spirit, in the goal they have, although you obviously dont agree with me on that
Stupid reasoning - just injected so you can win because all Corvettes must suck.

If that is the case, then I am going to say the C6 Z06 shares the spirit of the Boxster but performs better than a 911TT. :roll:

Wow - the Z06 surpasses it's goal 100 fold. :roll:

Know what? If it's so hard to just graciously give credit for a worldclasss car that does EVERYTHING a well as the best - don't say anything

:roll:

Either way - at the end of the day, no matter what you say, the C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 will not slow down, or lose power or gain braking distance or decrease cornering G's generated.

The cars are as good as they are - whether you folks care to admit or not.

The results speak for them selves.

:)

[SFDMALEX]

Why do you folks always have to ome in and conduct these stupid fucking arguments where you simply overlook the fcats and logic and common sense just because you want your precious Ferrai of Porsche to remain looking good.? :roll:
Maybe I should go and maintian stupid assinine arguments in the "Italian" forum. :roll:


Your the one with the stupid arguments here....making it sound like the 360CM is some huge devolpment. Sorry to brake your heart but take a time from a track that the series took place at in 2001 and in 2003 and its going to be that same track time :roll:

[RC45]

Why do you folks always have to ome in and conduct these stupid fucking arguments where you simply overlook the fcats and logic and common sense just because you want your precious Ferrai of Porsche to remain looking good.? :roll:
Maybe I should go and maintian stupid assinine arguments in the "Italian" forum. :roll:


Your the one with the stupid arguments here....making it sound like the 360CM is some huge devolpment. Sorry to brake your heart but take a time from a track that the series took place at in 2001 and in 2003 and its going to be that same track time :roll:

The car is a development, and to deny this is just to uphold a pointless argument.

[Ghostbat]

Think of the Lingenfelter Twin Turbo as the GT2 of Vettes... - that's a monster ehehe


Why? Don't compare an external company to a inhouse tuned car. Compare Lingenfelter to Ruf or Techart instead..

BTW RC45 seems like I'm not the only one that thinks Vettes are plastic.. :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

Why do you folks always have to ome in and conduct these stupid fucking arguments where you simply overlook the fcats and logic and common sense just because you want your precious Ferrai of Porsche to remain looking good.? :roll:
Maybe I should go and maintian stupid assinine arguments in the "Italian" forum. :roll:


Your the one with the stupid arguments here....making it sound like the 360CM is some huge devolpment. Sorry to brake your heart but take a time from a track that the series took place at in 2001 and in 2003 and its going to be that same track time :roll:

The car is a development, and to deny this is just to uphold a pointless argument.

Im not denying jack shit. go look at the lap times. case closed.

[SFDMALEX]

Why? Don't compare an external company to a inhouse tuned car. Compare Lingenfelter to Ruf or Techart instead..


That wont help is argument.

You see certain people like to bend rules to help them achieve their goals, but when its dont by the other party its scream bloody murder, or whatever the expresion is...

[RC45]

Think of the Lingenfelter Twin Turbo as the GT2 of Vettes... - that's a monster ehehe


Why? Don't compare an external company to a inhouse tuned car. Compare Lingenfelter to Ruf or Techart instead..

BTW RC45 seems like I'm not the only one that thinks Vettes are plastic.. :wink:

It was a facetious sarcastic remark. :roll:

Considering the Z06 doesn't need to be super or turbo charged to clock a lot faster lap times than many.

Sure- ignorant stereotypes are all over - by signing up you don't validate them - you just perpetuate ignoarnce.

Either way - at the end of the day, no matter what you say, the C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 will not slow down, or lose power or gain braking distance or decrease cornering G's generated.

The cars are as good as they are - whether you folks care to admit or not.

The results speak for them selves.

[RC45]

Why do you folks always have to ome in and conduct these stupid fucking arguments where you simply overlook the fcats and logic and common sense just because you want your precious Ferrai of Porsche to remain looking good.? :roll:
Maybe I should go and maintian stupid assinine arguments in the "Italian" forum. :roll:


Your the one with the stupid arguments here....making it sound like the 360CM is some huge devolpment. Sorry to brake your heart but take a time from a track that the series took place at in 2001 and in 2003 and its going to be that same track time :roll:

The car is a development, and to deny this is just to uphold a pointless argument.

Im not denying jack shit. go look at the lap times. case closed.

Sure - no software upgrades... no material changes, no component improvements - yeah sure. The cars from 2001 are the same / no adjustent. no part changes, no updates to become the 2003 cars.

If you say so.

[gucom]

You still don't get it then. The ability to remove, lighten and engineer the better lighter version is as a result of these special incremental changes in fucking other words the results of a number of years R&D

yeah totally, putting in CF body panels, light seats, and removing loads of luxury items really took alot of R&D didnt it...maybe for GM it would, but on this side of hte pond it takes about 10secs to figure that out (no offence, i just wanna know what it feels like to make stupid comments, so i can understand the things RC is saying at times better)

and just for the record, the Z06's engine is almost twice as big as the 911's or the 360's. Now i dont use it as a way to blame it or say it's not worth as much, but they just use 3 very different ways to make the power(displacement, refinement/revs, and turbocharging). im in general in favour of the high revs approach, but of these 3 cars i'd pick a 911 turbo.
anywayz, for hte 2nd time in this topic, i dont think of the corvette as a bad car or anything, once again its a great car, different than others, not my type, but still great. i never said otherwise.

also, as said before, the GT2 isnt even close to the lingenfelter in concept/spirit/function/whatever you wanna call it...try putting the lingenfelter against the 9ff, they're closer to each other

[RC45]

At 6600rpm for the LS6 and 7000rpm for the LS7 that seem to do quite ok in the rev department thanks.

[graywolf624]

C6 does it in 8:15
Where the hell are you getting this number?

Every source Ive seen on the c6 is 7m 56s.. Maybe that source was confused but considering the c5 zo6 did run a 7m 56 I think theres a better chance pigs fly then the c6 only ran a 815.


7m 40 is not light years beyond that but its an improvment.

said before, the GT2 isnt even close to the lingenfelter in concept/spirit/function/whatever you wanna call it...try putting the lingenfelter against the 9ff, they're closer to each other

I have to disagree considering lingenfelter already has a 7xx hp vette and rumours of a 1000 hp one..

[RC45]

A little F360 History for the "Ferrari Challenged" :) -- sure, they are all basically the same car, just one has no muffler and the other has an expensive stripe.

http://www.qv500.com/ferrari360p1.php


By 1999, Ferrari considered their much-loved and hugely accomplished 355 ready for replacing, a bold move as many thought it the marques best junior supercar ever. Adopting new materials and construction methods, Ferrari started designing the 355's successor from scratch, Pininfarina doing their part by creating bodywork that was a complete departure from its illustrious predecessors. Available as a Berlinetta (Modena) or Spider, the 360 comes equipped with either a standard six-speed manual gearbox or Ferrari’s optional semi-automatic F1 transmission.

http://www.qv500.com/ferrari360p3.php


For the 2000 Challenge Trophy series, Ferrari turned their stock 360 Modena F1 into a stripped-out racer. Scratch built and specially prepared by the factory, previous Challenge variants had often left Maranello as road cars and subsequently been enhanced with Ferrari's official retro-fit packs. However, Ferrari wanted to produce a substantially quicker machine than the outgoing 355 and decided the 360 Challenge should be built from the ground up as a track car. In the quest for lightness, they removed all the upholstery, the air-conditioning system, all glass bar the windscreen (replaced with Lexan), the sound insulation, airbags and passenger seat.


Lightweight doors got sliding Lexan windows, there were lightweight bumpers front and rear, a drilled aluminium tail facia, the Maranello engineers even removing the handbrake. As a result, at 1170kg, the 360 Challenge weighs in at 150kg less than the 355 it replaces and 120kg less than the series production 360 Modena (1290kg). Set up modifications include a custom Brembo braking system, specially developed sway bars and coil springs, enhanced suspension, reinforced mounting points and unique 18-inch BBS racing wheels on slick Pirelli tyres. Mechanical improvements are limited with the Tipo F131B engine remaining standard except for the removal of its air-conditioning system, the arrival of more stealthy mounting points and smaller mufflers and catalytic converters. A heavy duty racing clutch combined with reworked gearbox software has produced even quicker shifts than the standard F1 unit. Finally, stripped out interiors feature a roll cage with side impact bars, quick-fill 100-litre FIA fuel cell's, an OMP racing seat with six-point harness, a three-spoke padded steering wheel, a digital Magnetti Marelli dash and an automatic fire extinguishing system.


http://www.qv500.com/ferrari360p4.php


With the 360 Modena nearly four years old and Ferrari wanting to homologate some improvements for their GTC racer, this car was introduced, the Challenge Stradale. Weighing in at just 20kg more than the Challenge, it features a host of aero and mechanical refinements that combine to make it 3.5 seconds faster around Fiorano than a stock Modena. New titanium wheel bolts and damper springs increase resistance to roll and dip and have made directional changes more rapid. The damper settings themselves have been re-rated to provide a 15mm lower centre of gravity while a particularly advanced multi-axial carbon floorpan is 50% lighter than before and also increases rigidity. Perhaps the most significant arrival though are carbon brakes as standard.

Developed initially for use in Formula 1, these carbon-ceramic discs are combined with new aluminium brake carriers, the 19-inch Challenge-style BBS alloy wheels being secured by titanium bolts and shod with Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres designed specifically for this car. At the same time, Ferrari's engine revisions are no less mouth-watering, peak output of the now familiar 3.6-litre V8 having been raised from 400 to 425bhp at an identical 8500rpm. Designated Tipo 131, this reworked motor is riddled with improvements like new heads and pistons that allow an increase in compression to 11.2:1, low-friction cylinder blocks also being used. There's a new intake manifold, revised intake timing, a low counter-pressure exhaust silencer and re-positioned valve-springs, the transmission additionally coming in for some serious attention. Only available with the F1-style paddle change, the Challenge Stradale box has a faster processing speed that reduces change times to just 150 milliseconds when operating in Race mode. There are once again two alternative gear-change configurations (Sport and Race), each of which corresponds to an integrated car-control logic regarding damper set-up and traction control (ASR). In Race mode and with the ASR disengaged, there's a launch control facility as used in Formula 1, a feature designed to give drivers the fastest possible start in good grip conditions.

Pininfarina's bodywork has come under serious scrutiny, a revised aero pack resulting in a gain of 50% more vertical load being generated and allowing for much faster cornering speeds. This has been achieved by adopting a modified front bumper that extends below the air intakes to increase downforce at the front, deeper side sills streamlining the rear wheels and contributing significantly to improving the cars efficiency and balance. Additional downforce is generated at the back by a subtly re-profiled tailgate whilst oval cooling vanes now surround the engine cover. Inside, carbon racing seats are upholstered in high-grip cloth or leather and fitted either with four-point harnesses or traditional safety belts. Customers can also choose between sliding Lexan windows or electric glass items.

The door panels and centre console are made entirely of carbon fibre whilst all carpeting is discarded in favour of a racing-style cabin with just rubber mats for comfort. Located in the centre of the instrument binnacle, the rev counter becomes the drivers main point of reference and is emphasised by the yellow graphics and red indicator that ensure optimum contrast and legibility. The entire panel is enclosed within a carbon-fibre element and fronted by a new flat top steering wheel with an extended right-hand side gear-change paddle to make changing up easier when exiting corners. All told, this equates to a weight saving of some 110kg over a stock Modena and explains the dramatic improvement in performance. Cost options include a radio, tricolour centre stripe, fire extinguisher and an aluminium roll-cage, this being 40% lighter than a conventional type and developed specifically for the Stradale. A practically limitless range of paint and interior colour combinations allow buyers to order a genuinely bespoke motorcar, but at £133,000, the base price is already well above the original Modena. Nevertheless, launched during March 2003 at the Geneva Salon, the first deliveries were made that October and the car has been a great success no doubt thanks to its homologation special status.

[RC45]

C6 does it in 8:15
Where the hell are you getting this number?

Every source Ive seen on the c6 is 7m 56s..

7m 40 is not light years beyond that but its an improvment.

said before, the GT2 isnt even close to the lingenfelter in concept/spirit/function/whatever you wanna call it...try putting the lingenfelter against the 9ff, they're closer to each other

I have to disagree considering lingenfelter already has a 7xx hp vette and rumours of a 1000 hp one..

I have always called BS on the 7m56s for the C6 and it turns out it was a C6 mule, pre-production car etc etc - I think ti was a pre-prod Z06 but with no word of C6 specs yet, Dave Hill flat out lied :P

The C6 is still just a hairdressers car ;)

[graywolf624]

C5 z06 sub 8 second time..

http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?4060

I have always called BS on the 7m56s for the C6 and it turns out it was a C6 mule, pre-production car etc etc - I think ti was a pre-prod Z06 but with no word of C6 specs yet, Dave Hill flat out lied
Hey if ford can give everyone (magazines) ford gt ringers.. lol...

Sides even if it didnt run a 7 56 you and I both know it ran way better then 8:15.. thats c5 z51 territory.

[RC45]

I will research, but I seem to rememebr the "special" Commerative Edition Europe got had non-runflat GY F1's and was better than the Z51 in the US - it is this special Euro CE version that set the C5 Coupe time of 8m18s.

I am wondering if the GY runcraps on teh C6 Z51 just suck that bad they are only good for 8m15s even with 400hp on tap ;)

BTW - I am guessing posting facts about the heritage of the F360 has scared off the Vette-haters ;)

[RC45]

Wow - not a single "counter-point" from the Tifosi after some facts we provided ;)

It turns out the 360, 360C and 360CS are very special purpose built, race developed and specific unique models - adding a bit of weight to my argument that they are the result of extensive R&D - and not "trhown together" from the parts bin .. :) ;)

[Just_me]

Best source for comparing laptimes with others are Sportauto. They always use the same driver. The carmag always present details of of the cars. How they behave on the track, roadconditions, wheather conditions, tires etc etc.

Its a well-known mag and the times Sportauto get are the best resource when comparing with others. I dont pay attention to what the carmaker says. Just talk and no proofe.


Where are the scans and St-anger great write-up? :D

[gucom]

C6 does it in 8:15
Where the hell are you getting this number?

Every source Ive seen on the c6 is 7m 56s.. Maybe that source was confused but considering the c5 zo6 did run a 7m 56 I think theres a better chance pigs fly then the c6 only ran a 815.


erm...1st post in this topic, st-anger said:
lap times:

NS: 8.15min

now if i combine that with the titel of this topic (SA Supertest Corvette C6 test results) its not that unlogical to think that the C6 has done a 8:15 lap
on the 'Ring in the SA supertest, is it?

At 6600rpm for the LS6 and 7000rpm for the LS7 that seem to do quite ok in the rev department thanks.
7000rpm isn't insanely high, its about the same as a 996 turbo i believe...but its nothing compared to the (out of the top of my head) 8500rpm that the 360 reaches

[graywolf624]

now if i combine that with the titel of this topic (SA Supertest Corvette C6 test results) its not that unlogical to think that the C6 has done a 8:15 lap
on the 'Ring in the SA supertest, is it?

Have you considered Im questioning the accuracy since I have a source that says 8:09 and another that says 7:56..

Not to mention Im sure SA has a different tester then the zo6 had making the entire arguement null.

Given those 2 things.. One of which is guarenteed true, you cant say theres a 35 second gap between c6 and c6 zo6. You can only do so if the cars are driven with the same driver under the same situation or perhaps if they are the best times either car has run at(neither is the proven case here).

[SFDMALEX]

Wow - not a single "counter-point" from the Tifosi after some facts we provided ;)

It turns out the 360, 360C and 360CS are very special purpose built, race developed and specific unique models - adding a bit of weight to my argument that they are the result of extensive R&D - and not "trhown together" from the parts bin .. :) ;)

Oh what are these "facts"? There is nothing in that post that I didnt know already. Your argument is good for nothing. "extensive R&D" my ass. Throwing out body panels doesnt require four years of extensive R&D. ANyway who gives a shit? Even though you are wrong who cares if they are very special purpose built cars? Oh yeah, if Chevy did that then they would make a car so fucking good it would blow the Enzo away....yeah tell GM to do that.

[RC45]

Wow - not a single "counter-point" from the Tifosi after some facts we provided ;)

It turns out the 360, 360C and 360CS are very special purpose built, race developed and specific unique models - adding a bit of weight to my argument that they are the result of extensive R&D - and not "trhown together" from the parts bin .. :) ;)

Oh what are these "facts"? There is nothing in that post that I didnt know already. Your argument is good for nothing. "extensive R&D" my ass. Throwing out body panels doesnt require four years of extensive R&D. ANyway who gives a shit? Even though you are wrong who cares if they are very special purpose built cars? Oh yeah, if Chevy did that then they would make a car so fucking good it would blow the Enzo away....yeah tell GM to do that.

You claimed the 360 Challenge is a "stripped street car"

Not what the book says :)


For the 2000 Challenge Trophy series, Ferrari turned their stock 360 Modena F1 into a stripped-out racer. Scratch built and specially prepared by the factory, previous Challenge variants had often left Maranello as road cars and subsequently been enhanced with Ferrari's official retro-fit packs. However, Ferrari wanted to produce a substantially quicker machine than the outgoing 355 and decided the 360 Challenge should be built from the ground up as a track car. In the quest for lightness, they removed all the upholstery, the air-conditioning system, all glass bar the windscreen (replaced with Lexan), the sound insulation, airbags and passenger seat.


You claim the 360CS is no more special than a carbon door panel and some other parts removed..

Not what the book says.. ;)


With the 360 Modena nearly four years old and Ferrari wanting to homologate some improvements for their GTC racer, this car was introduced, the Challenge Stradale. Weighing in at just 20kg more than the Challenge, it features a host of aero and mechanical refinements that combine to make it 3.5 seconds faster around Fiorano than a stock Modena. New titanium wheel bolts and damper springs increase resistance to roll and dip and have made directional changes more rapid. The damper settings themselves have been re-rated to provide a 15mm lower centre of gravity while a particularly advanced multi-axial carbon floorpan is 50% lighter than before and also increases rigidity. Perhaps the most significant arrival though are carbon brakes as standard.

[SFDMALEX]

Wow - not a single "counter-point" from the Tifosi after some facts we provided ;)

It turns out the 360, 360C and 360CS are very special purpose built, race developed and specific unique models - adding a bit of weight to my argument that they are the result of extensive R&D - and not "trhown together" from the parts bin .. :) ;)

Oh what are these "facts"? There is nothing in that post that I didnt know already. Your argument is good for nothing. "extensive R&D" my ass. Throwing out body panels doesnt require four years of extensive R&D. ANyway who gives a shit? Even though you are wrong who cares if they are very special purpose built cars? Oh yeah, if Chevy did that then they would make a car so fucking good it would blow the Enzo away....yeah tell GM to do that.

You claimed the 360 Challenge is a "stripped street car"

Not what the book says :)


For the 2000 Challenge Trophy series, Ferrari turned their stock 360 Modena F1 into a stripped-out racer. Scratch built and specially prepared by the factory, previous Challenge variants had often left Maranello as road cars and subsequently been enhanced with Ferrari's official retro-fit packs. However, Ferrari wanted to produce a substantially quicker machine than the outgoing 355 and decided the 360 Challenge should be built from the ground up as a track car. In the quest for lightness, they removed all the upholstery, the air-conditioning system, all glass bar the windscreen (replaced with Lexan), the sound insulation, airbags and passenger seat.


You claim the 360CS is no more special than a carbon door panel and some other parts removed..

Not what the book says.. ;)


With the 360 Modena nearly four years old and Ferrari wanting to homologate some improvements for their GTC racer, this car was introduced, the Challenge Stradale. Weighing in at just 20kg more than the Challenge, it features a host of aero and mechanical refinements that combine to make it 3.5 seconds faster around Fiorano than a stock Modena. New titanium wheel bolts and damper springs increase resistance to roll and dip and have made directional changes more rapid. The damper settings themselves have been re-rated to provide a 15mm lower centre of gravity while a particularly advanced multi-axial carbon floorpan is 50% lighter than before and also increases rigidity. Perhaps the most significant arrival though are carbon brakes as standard.


lol

You cant read at all can you? Tell me how they are not saying its not stripped out street car? :roll:

Only point you have is about the 360CS which I agree is a re worked car. The 360MC isnt.