View Full Version : Jeremy's take on the e60 M5
evoWalo
06-12-2005, 12:58 PM
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2060-12089-1649122-12089,00.html
Bugger it - Clarkie is always nabbing my opinion.. ;)
BADMIHAI
06-12-2005, 02:34 PM
I kind of agree with Clarkson. All the gadgetry seems to interfere between the driver and the car. I would take my M5 with a proper manual, thank you. Wasn't BMW supposed to make "The Ultimate Driving Machine"? The performance, however, is seriously insane for a four door car.
thekillingroad
06-12-2005, 03:16 PM
poor jeremy :)
Why dont you just step on the gas pedal istead of trying to play with the wellknown-idiot iDrive.. :) Just step on the gas dude :D
gobs3z
06-12-2005, 03:29 PM
Well JC knows how to put a smile on my face by surprising me but write all about the electronics and not a damn thing about how it drives other than a straight line, we'll see what he says on Top Gear.
yg60m
06-12-2005, 04:13 PM
He always have a non-common opinion on cars :) I guess it is one of many reason of its success :wink:
Sir_GT
06-12-2005, 06:22 PM
Unsurprising review from a man who (upon his own admission) cannot send an email, and has just recently learned how to use an iPod.
Honestly, if you can work a pocket pc, the iDrive is easy street.
That "I have no imagination" line is just rubbish. Why make it seem that only BMW's would give that impression. That negative stereotype would be true about most casual buyers of all popular makes, whether it be Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, or BMW.
He's definitely a funny chap... but an incredibly short-sighted journalist.
DeMoN
06-12-2005, 10:55 PM
Well, thats a review for people who smoke pipes. If you want some review targeted for the young croud, just watch 5th Gear's review by Tiff.
evoWalo
06-12-2005, 11:27 PM
JC always gives a new perspective about any car w/c a lot of people may not think off.
5vz-fe
06-12-2005, 11:30 PM
Well, thats a review for people who smoke pipes. If you want some review targeted for the young croud, just watch 5th Gear's review by Tiff.
Or that crazy review from Autofil..........(those slides are to die for)
Sir_GT
06-13-2005, 12:08 AM
JC always gives a new perspective about any car w/c a lot of people may not think off.
He doesn't have a 100% hit ratio though...
"I don't like this M5 because I can't understand it!"
"I don't like the McLaren F1 because I can't drive it!"
"I think the SLR is a better car than the Carrera GT because it's easier to drive!"
Like I said, he's a very funny chap... one of the funniest writers I've come across in ages...(pick up his book "Motorworld"... it'll send you to tears) but that doesn't change the fact that between him and Tiff, Clarkson will seek to entertain you, but it's Tiff who will give you a proper, honest, and factual review.
If there's anybody who makes any real sense on TG, it's really James May. If any of you guys ever get to read his reviews, articles, and his column in Top Gear Magazine, you'll know exactly what I mean.
JC dosnt like BMW that much to start with so he's bound to be less then glory filled about the M5 which does suck it's a mazing car 4doors big boot luxury aplenty and performance to die for
noosee
06-13-2005, 02:59 AM
I think it's better to wait for it to appear on Top Gear programme. Then we will really see what he thinks of it.
thepest
06-13-2005, 05:20 AM
Long live Tiff Needel.
And about this bugger - He is an obvious fool, it doesn't matter whether we say it or not, it's clear to everyone of us!
Sir_GT quote him best; what else can you say about a man!
numerouno
06-13-2005, 06:26 AM
I agree tha JC's driving aint comparable to tiff, but that doesn't mean that his attitude's always shitty :x
JC's known for liking very mechanical and pure cars...I think a guy whose all time fave is the F40, couldn't be labeled a fool but quite the opposite. The latest M6 is all stuffed up with electronic shit and even the guys who've praised it, weren't happy with the all too complicated gizmos.
Ghostbat
06-13-2005, 06:32 AM
JC dosnt like BMW that much to start with so he's bound to be less then glory filled about the M5 which does suck it's a mazing car 4doors big boot luxury aplenty and performance to die for
Not quite true. He's owned at least one BMW and if you remember the TG test of the M3 CSL he loved most things about that car except of coure the "flappy paddle shift"
And if you had bothered reading the complete article - "Just when I was thinking that BMW had made yet another car for yet another software consultant, it did something I really wasn’t expecting.
It became a full-on M5. And praise doesn’t come higher than that. "
And in the latest Top Gear, both JC and Hammond loved Wiesmann, after all it is an M Z4 in drag.
ViperASR
06-13-2005, 05:21 PM
WTF, he spends 5 paragraphs talking about some "naked model" who isnt naked, or a model. Guess its typical Clarcson, but i do like his comments. I dont like that he always bags the US, they think that they are better than us, but they lost the war. The M5 should be awesome to drive, hope i get the chance to ride in one.
Sir_GT
06-13-2005, 08:20 PM
I agree tha JC's driving aint comparable to tiff, but that doesn't mean that his attitude's always shitty :x
JC's known for liking very mechanical and pure cars...I think a guy whose all time fave is the F40, couldn't be labeled a fool but quite the opposite. The latest M6 is all stuffed up with electronic shit and even the guys who've praised it, weren't happy with the all too complicated gizmos.
That's because those "guys" (motoring journalists) don't race cars. Anybody this side of an F1, Le Mans, or similarly specced car will understand what BMW has done with their new M cars. They've simply given you the option to set the car according to your own personal standard.
Did Tiff complain about the tech in the car? Not at all. Simply because like the Le Mans cars he used to race, he knew that the car was simply waiting for the owner's preferred configuration.
I mean, wouldn't you want to be able to choose what resolution your PC is currently using? would you want 800x600? or maybe bigger? It's up to you. It's your choice. That's what they've done. Which is brilliant.
Clarkson would simply say "Why not keep it at 800x600 all the time?" Why? Why not? Because he can't bothered to configure? Nein. It's simply because he doesn't know how.
The reason why other journalists complain about this is simply because they can't seem to get around to learning it. Such as those of a slightly older generation, like Clarkson. Those who did get around to learning it all said the same thing. You'll have two settings on it. Your version of a daily drive, and your version of the M-power onslaught.
Also, if you watch Clarkson's other videos (Hot Metal in particular), he has several reasons for liking the F40, but he's not consistent with his reasons either. If he likes cars that do not have any electronic nannying, why does he dislike the McLaren F1?
Simple. He's not good enough to drive it.
szumszer
06-13-2005, 10:53 PM
the M5 is a technological wonder, a full sized four door car that has all the necessities of daily driving in any weather with great comfort, which happens to have a f1 like V10 with 500 hp and handling like a sportscar, what is he complaining about, I would understand if he complained about the price, but this is such a unique car and such a great car ... I wish audi would be able to build such a great car, as I prefer audi personally, but still this is the greatest overall package available today, if you had to buy only one car to do a lot of things, all year long, this would be it ... and hopefully the csl version will be gutted of all electronics and will have a manual, no dampers and racing slick tyres with full carbon fiber interior, including the seats ... bet JC would like that more, just like he liked the m3 csl more, but seriously who could drive a car like that, daily
styla21
06-13-2005, 11:13 PM
Do you seriously think that BMW would make a stripped lightweight version of their saloon car? M6 - maybe, but no chance for the M5. The "C" in CSL, stands for compact :wink:
the M5 is a technological wonder,
Maybe that's the problem - instead of a car, BMW produced a soulless, characterless, sterile electronic device.
Sort of like a realy fancy 100TB fibre-channel storage array - great for th geeks, propellor heads and pencil knecks to gaffaw about around the water cooler - butnot nearly as cool as that great macho chainsaw down on the loading dock.
:)
evoWalo
06-13-2005, 11:34 PM
Maybe that's the problem - instead of a car, BMW produced a soulless, characterless, sterile electronic device.
:)
It does run Windows CE (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/mar02/03-04BMWpr.asp) so it cant be helped.
BADMIHAI
06-13-2005, 11:36 PM
The reason why other journalists complain about this is simply because they can't seem to get around to learning it. Such as those of a slightly older generation, like Clarkson.
Also, if you watch Clarkson's other videos (Hot Metal in particular), he has several reasons for liking the F40, but he's not consistent with his reasons either. If he likes cars that do not have any electronic nannying, why does he dislike the McLaren F1?
Simple. He's not good enough to drive it.
And you are just proving his points. He is from an older generation and the M5 is indeed aimed mainly at people his age.
He did recognise that he is not good enough of a driver for the Macca. But that's what he wanted to outline. I think everyone here will agree that, although JC is not an F1 driver, he is definitely an above-average driver. His point is that you have to be a racing driver to enjoy the Macca. But the McLaren is a road car, aimed mainly at rich people, not racing drivers (they already drive faster machines at work). I completely agree with him not liking it.
evoWalo
06-13-2005, 11:38 PM
Tiff did complain about the engine idle of the M5. It kinda sounds like my Evo when it idles.
thepest
06-14-2005, 04:00 AM
Sir_GT said it all!!!!
Listen to that guy, he knows what he's saying!!!
BADMIHAI
06-14-2005, 08:54 AM
Sir_GT said it all!!!!
Listen to that guy, he knows what he's saying!!!
Get his flaccid cock out of your mouth and think for yourself once in awhile.
espen
06-14-2005, 09:59 AM
How can you say that Wiesmanns are Z4's in drag? Are you trying to tell us Wiesmann designed the Z4 back in the 90's or what? :lol:
JCs take on the M5 is pretty flattering if you strip away is self-imposed inability to like anything german. Anyways the thing just effing flies - in Autocar it outran the F430 in a straight line and stuck with it on the twisties. A local one ran pretty much dead with a Gallardo.
Add to that the beautiful interior, wonderful tactile pleasure of seriously expensive stalks and switches and the surprisingly flat yet totally comfy ride. Match that and I'll raise you a hair-raising V10 howl :D
Shinigami
06-14-2005, 10:26 AM
Ahh, it's so great to see the love between MB and BMW fans. The respect they have for each others cars...
Always fighting over it, yet neither side will ever change their opinion. Reminds me of political debates... *groan*
SPEEDKILLAR
06-14-2005, 10:54 AM
Ahh, it's so great to see the love between MB and BMW fans. The respect they have for each others cars...
Always fighting over it, yet neither side will ever change their opinion. Reminds me of political debates... *groan*
Well thats what makes it interesting and fun.
What I do find strange is that BMW fans used to praise the M cars for being pure without to much gizmo's, but now that the M divison has fitted it with a lot of gizmo's you don't "really need", they changed their opinion, just like that.
Anyway I love the M5 engine, but the looks are disgusting and too much gizmos.
It seems BMW is becoming MB and vice versa :lol:
Shinigami
06-14-2005, 12:45 PM
I just find it silly that people tend to 'hate' an other makers car with a passion, even though the other vehicle maker makes very good cars.
I'm an MB fan at heart, and whilst say a BMW and Porsche is two "luxury" car makers that make vehicles I'm not as fond of, I still aknowledge that they make some good cars. Ahhh... difficult to explain, but maybe you see what I mean ;)
But yeah, it seems like MB wants to simplify their cars, while BMW wants to make 'em over complicated. Personally, I think MB should keep their saloons as high tech as possible, but keep their more 'fun' roadster type cars (SLK and SL) simpler so as to keep 'em as more pure driving vehicles.
But one of the things you can't argue with is that BMW has one big ace in their sleeves in the form of manuals that work very well. MB is only now creating manuals which begin to work just fine, but still a far cry from an M3/S2000/Miata in quick, crunchy gear switching :D
One of the reasons why SO MANY people put down MB's, due to the lack of the a manual on their high end AMG's :( A shame really... And then there's people who think they're poser cars, but well... can't do anything about that yet =\
p.s. before any people slag me off, do note that I said that Porsches and BMW's ARE good cars, they make plenty of good cars, just not cars I get my crotch in fire when I think about them ;)
Sir_GT
06-14-2005, 02:12 PM
Tiff did complain about the engine idle of the M5. It kinda sounds like my Evo when it idles.
Which was absolutely true. He said it sounds like a diesel, and it does.
Tiff calls it like it is, full stop.
Badmihai: Older people? You mean like Tiff? or the engineers at the M division? or maybe you mean people like my 55 year old dad, who can use a pocket pc, or maybe you mean my 54 year old father-in-law, who said that the iDrive was "pretty simple". Or maybe you mean an even older group, such as the 64-year old politician I know who buys his boxing gear from the internet.
Clarkson's not even a half century old, and he can't use the internet (as he himself admitted) to save his life, much less understand how to personalise the M5.
He likes the M3 CSL because he likes hardcore cars. Fine. But what did he NOT like about the CSL? The paddle shift? The tech-y bits?
But hey, if you say you agree with an old fogey who can't understand why you need more than one resolution for windows, then by all means, feel free.
I, on the other hand, would rather have a car that reminds me of a fucking batmobile. Something that looks absolutely benign and ordinary, until the time I decide that I need to put some members of the We Love Clarkson Canadian Fan Club in their place.
Then it's press "M" for "Go home to your mama!"-mode.
Then it's press "M" for "Go home to your mama!"-mode.
Except, that by the time you fiddled with all the twiddly bits and invoked the modes and altered the persona, the bloke/girl in the non-techno hipo car next to you is already a tiny a spec on the horizon.
Now - mind you - once you get the thing turned on and configured just so, it goes like bloody 'ell it does.. ;) :P -- pity that by then no-ones around to see it though ... innit? :P ;)
SPEEDKILLAR
06-14-2005, 05:09 PM
^^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: LMAO
How can you say that Wiesmanns are Z4's in drag? Are you trying to tell us Wiesmann designed the Z4 back in the 90's or what? :lol:
Well bmw bosses own Wiesmann, it was first a project to resurrect Healey name, then they decided to make it all german. Suspension is tuned by Bmw engineers, engine is Bmw and also transmissions, if the company was not owned by guys that are high in Bmw hierarchy, there would be no M3 engines and no SMG2 transmissions, No new engines from X5_4.8is/750i, and also the V10 is coming in the new Wiesmann GT. If there was no Wiesmann, there would have been Z4 with M3 engine a long time ago. Even the new 3.0liter inline6, in it´s more powerful variation, have been delayed too long. None of the smaller manufacturers with reasonable prices come close to Wiesmann, it is complete package, as you can see from TG. Very low profile tyres, short suspension travel, and still the cars suspension works splendidly. It is honed car. I have always wanted Tvr, but this car makes a lot more sense.
Sir_GT
06-14-2005, 07:33 PM
Then it's press "M" for "Go home to your mama!"-mode.
Except, that by the time you fiddled with all the twiddly bits and invoked the modes and altered the persona, the bloke/girl in the non-techno hipo car next to you is already a tiny a spec on the horizon.
Now - mind you - once you get the thing turned on and configured just so, it goes like bloody 'ell it does.. ;) :P -- pity that by then no-ones around to see it though ... innit? :P ;)
You're supposed to do the tuning bit at home, dude. :)
Sir_GT
06-14-2005, 07:34 PM
^^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: LMAO
What are you laughing at? Your AMG engines aren't even as reliable as Fiat's.
Shinigami
06-15-2005, 06:12 AM
First of all. That's not true, and is what I would consider somewhat unkind name calling.
The AMG engines are even more reliable then the standard MB engine, and it's for the reliability of it's engines that MB has been known for a long time. The problems MB has encountered in current times is mostly due to small electrical problems, not engine problems. Taking my car as an example, only one report of a failed SLK AMG engine has been mentioned, and it was never further confirmed to be the case.
Now on the other hand, the E46 M3 engine could be mentioned as particularily vulnerable to failure, don't you think? But does it make the entire BMW brand as reliable as Daewoo? No it doesn't, because just like M, AMG also makes engines of different size and type. Some might be more prone to failure, others not at all, but slamming a whole car marque shows you are, pardon me saying this, ignorant.
Just my two cents *shrug*
SPEEDKILLAR
06-15-2005, 07:52 AM
^^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: LMAO
What are you laughing at? Your AMG engines aren't even as reliable as Fiat's.
If you don't have anything interesting to say, then I would suggest you to shut your trap.
You're being childish and ridiculous, get a life moron, and be realistic, BMW is an excellent carmaker, but not the best, end of discussion, so take your fantasy stories to BMW forum instead of here.
Sorry for the harsh words, but you had it coming.
Sir_GT
06-15-2005, 09:10 AM
'twas a joke messirs. It wasn't meant to be serious. :|
SPEEDKILLAR
06-15-2005, 09:39 AM
'twas a joke messirs. It wasn't meant to be serious. :|
No problem, sorry for that.
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