Espionage in F1

[stracing]

everyone always talk about fear of espionage in F1 but nothing serious really comes thru. well it seems that toyota maybe accused of espionage by ferrari. this would be interesting to see how it turns out.

full story from www.f1-live.com

It started as a joke. Many people said that the Toyota TF103 looked so much like the Ferrari F2002 (and F2003-GA) that it was nicknamed the 'Ferrari with a Toyota engine'. Now the situation is getting more serious.

A few hours ago, Gazzetta dello Sport confirmed that German police searched the residence of an Italian engineer who is actually working for Toyota and is a former (less than 2 years ago) Ferrari employee.

Following this initial search, the police went to Cologne and searched the aerodynamics department of Toyota Racing for a few hours. Computers, CD's, hard disks and a few projects were seized. According to Gazzetta dello Sport, German justice is only focusing on the Italian engineer and not directly towards Toyota (at least for now).

Police also questioned co-workers of the engineer to get more information about the activities of the man. The engineer in question was later arrested by police.

The legal procedure made by the German court was initiated following a request from an Italian prosecutor in Modena, who lodged a complaint for Industrial espionage.

We should have more details in the next few days...

[SFDMALEX]

I read this this morining. Looking forward to more details, this can be quite interesting.

[tekwar]

lol if that story is true, he didnt do a "very good" job, toyota still didnt perform that well. But i guess all else considered, them being only in their second season, they did quite a remarkable job.

[chernobyl]

Well Ferrari's stolen plans had to go somewhere.

[stracing]

they steal the plans and still manage to stink up the place???!?!?!

[noosee]

Aha thats why they were so fast this year :)

Next yeat toyota will have the biggest budget among all F1 teams.

[stracing]

bmw williams has the fastest car of the bunch, does that translate into wins??

[chernobyl]

bmw williams has the fastest car of the bunch, does that translate into wins??


Fastest qualifying car for sure, but in race trim im not so sure. Like you say, does being the truely fastest = wins....no! a lot more factors come into play, like reliability and uncontrolable factors such as the weather. Ferrari have the total package and hence win everything.

Toyota, even if they were developing a car on the back of those stolen plans were not the quickest. the plans might have helped any team who had them but i doubt it would have made them from mid-runners into front-runners. Toyota did an excellent job this year.

[tekwar]

Well you can define fast in a few ways.

Fast in straight line (engine power)
Fast around corners (aero. package/chassis)

No doubt BMW is one of the, if not the fastest in the straight line. But Ferrari is no slouch either. And im sure both cars handle pretty well in their own rights. If you put that BMW engine in the minardi, its not going to win any races with their chassis, but they sure would improve a hell of alot. It take those two factors put together to be quick.

This year races were decided more likely than not by the tires companies. On hot days, it mostly favored the michelins. "Wet" days favored Ferrari. High downforce circuits favored Michelins. But thats a general view on what we saw in the year and what the teams have been saying themselves.

[stracing]

yea plus michelin was cheating :mrgreen:

[tekwar]

yea plus michelin was cheating :mrgreen:

So was ferrari :P

Patrick Head has more things to say
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html?http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/031030175012.shtml



Patrick Head

Ferrari and Bridgestone complained about Michelin tyres after the finish of the Hungarian Grand Prix, arguing that the French tyres were too wide. The FIA clarified the regulation and Michelin tyres were used without any problems for the last three races of the season.

A few weeks later, suspicious eyes were set on Bridgestone, who were believed to supply different tyre compounds for the front and the rear of the cars, which is not allowed by the regulation.

The FIA took two tyres (one front and one rear) on a Ferrari after the race at Monza. The FIA confirmed that the results of the analysis would take a few weeks and nothing has been announced since then.

According to Patrick Head, we should not expect a surprise: “They took a left front tyre and a right rear tyre but because of the special conditions in Monza you have to use a harder compound for the right rear and the left front tyre, while a softer compound would be an advantage for the left rear and the right front. This means that the tyres checked by the FIA may have been the same compound accidental while Ferrari may have been using different compounds nevertheless. That’s why this investigation hasn’t been very useful, from my point of view,” explained Head on BMW Motorsport's web site.

An interesting explanation... and we must wonder why the FIA didn't take all four tyres on the Ferrari.

Its endless pointing of fingers, the children of F1 need to learn how to behave ...

[stracing]

i knew that was coming back but the fia didn't do anything, so its still speculation. so ner... :P

[tekwar]

lol we all know when ferrari complains, the FIA listens, when it comes from someone else, its ignored .... hah

but ohh well, they all have been naughty, they should both learn to play fairly...
wouldnt it be nice to have just one tire company to solve the problem....actually no, it would be boring and we wont have all this silly things to read. :wink:

[twboy1999]

i dnu think fia is on either side

remember this yr's rules were brough in to stop ferrari's dominance,, which i c nothign is wrong with , because they worked hard for their achiements

[levensnevel]

Dutch4x4 from another forum brought these two very interesting articles on this issue to my attention:
1 (http://www.pitpass.com/features/feature.cfm?featuresid=669&page=1)
2 (http://www.pitpass.com/features/feature.cfm?featuresid=670&page=1)

[stracing]

Obiusly there´s espionage in F1 world. Cars every year, from different marks, are very simmilar desing and the only difference between them are motor, elestronic systems....

[levensnevel]

Forgot this (http://www.pitpass.com/features/feature.cfm?featuresid=682&page=1) one :roll:

[jpatino03]

Pursued by the Ferrari's
sinister agents, Princess
Santini races home aboard her
starship, custodian of the
stolen plans that can save
Toyota and restore
freedom to Formula 1... :mrgreen:

[espen]

Well if you copy last years car, then if you do a 100% job then still all you get is last years car. Perhaps it could have been competitive in the fist few races of 2003, but F1 cars are always evolving.

Look at how Renault came form nowhere to kick serious ass at the end of 2003 - Toyota may have been as fast early in the saeson but where were they in the end..? Of course, the plans made a good starting point but thankfully not good enough...

Well, thats Toyota officially stricken from the good guys-list... :roll:

[RallyeNLD]

It's a circle going round and round. Before you know, Mike Gascogne is going from Toyota to Ferrari :)

[veilsidebr]

Well, i guess this more common than we think. Espionage is in F1 is since 50´s.

:D