Who to blame M.S. or Nick Heidfeld ???

[c_theodoros]

Who is to blame regarding the insident between those two guys ???

[SafirXP]

even though he's my fav... it was his fault alright!

[ZfrkS62]

Heidfeld is the one that went into the corner too hot and then locked up when Schumacher closed the door on his obviously over aggressive attempt to overtake. Nick was going to end up jumping the kerb to take the position but was coming in way too fast, was on the brakes into the turn and induced some wicked understeer. had he had his nose at michaels sidepod when they reached the corner, i would have said it was schumachers fault for aggressive blocking. But that was clearly Heidfelds fault, just like it was Satos fault at Nurburgring last year when he got his front wing ripped off by Barrichello in turn 1 with 5 laps to go trying to pull of that bonzai pass. Same situation. Very similar to Adelaide 94 :wink:

[sameerrao]

It looked like a racing incident to me - i.e. no one to blame.

[caneswell]

Heidfeld is the one that went into the corner too hot and then locked up when Schumacher closed the door on his obviously over aggressive attempt to overtake. Nick was going to end up jumping the kerb to take the position but was coming in way too fast, was on the brakes into the turn and induced some wicked understeer. had he had his nose at michaels sidepod when they reached the corner, i would have said it was schumachers fault for aggressive blocking. But that was clearly Heidfelds fault, just like it was Satos fault at Nurburgring last year when he got his front wing ripped off by Barrichello in turn 1 with 5 laps to go trying to pull of that bonzai pass. Same situation. Very similar to Adelaide 94 :wink:

Yeah you're wrong!

Schumachers block was too late and too agressive. Nothing heidfeld could do, he can't suddenly summon up more braking power, all he could do was try and avoid schumacher until he was forced on the grass, then he was a passenger.

Where do you think heidfeld should have gone? Another example of schumi throwing his toys out the pram when he's under pressure. Great driver but he needs to sort that out!

[|Nuno|]

It looked like a racing incident to me - i.e. no one to blame.

What he said. They were both too optimistic, so you can't blame one specificaly.

[c_theodoros]

Yeah you're wrong!

Schumachers block was too late and too agressive. Nothing heidfeld could do, he can't suddenly summon up more braking power, all he could do was try and avoid schumacher until he was forced on the grass, then he was a passenger.

Where do you think heidfeld should have gone? Another example of schumi throwing his toys out the pram when he's under pressure. Great driver but he needs to sort that out!


couldn't agree with you more...

btw, here in the U.K. the ITV guys who are responsible for the race coverage blamed M.S. for the insident + how about the marshalls pushing him back into the race ??? I haven't seen this thing happen to any other driver apart from M.S. :twisted:

[|Nuno|]

btw, here in the U.K. the ITV guys who are responsible for the race coverage blamed M.S. for the insident

WOW!! ITV blaming Michael! :shock: So unexpected... :roll:



how about the marshalls pushing him back into the race ???

He was in a dangerous place, in case you haven't noticed.

[ZfrkS62]

Schumachers block was too late and too agressive. Nothing heidfeld could do, he can't suddenly summon up more braking power, all he could do was try and avoid schumacher until he was forced on the grass, then he was a passenger.


If you noticed though, by the time Heidfeld had gone from the outside of Schumacher to try and cut in, Schumacher was already on his line for the corner. Nick locked up for a moment, couldn't get off the brakes in time to avoid the grass and then slid across and speard Schumi. So at best, 50% racing incident, 50% Heidfeld. I'd say your right about him hitting the grass and becoming a passenger, but he could have taken him at an upcoming corner.

[Ghostbat]

btw, here in the U.K. the ITV guys who are responsible for the race coverage blamed M.S. for the insident

WOW!! ITV blaming Michael! :shock: So unexpected... :roll:



how about the marshalls pushing him back into the race ???

He was in a dangerous place, in case you haven't noticed.

The Swedish commentators (one of the dudes knows very much about F1) were also certain that it was Schumis fault. They said that he's become to arrogant and think that rules doesn't apply to him because of all his titles. I pretty much agree.

[360modena]

Does anyone got the vid I didn't saw the race then not the incident ???

[coombsie66]

Schumachers block was too late and too agressive. Nothing heidfeld could do, he can't suddenly summon up more braking power, all he could do was try and avoid schumacher until he was forced on the grass, then he was a passenger.


If you noticed though, by the time Heidfeld had gone from the outside of Schumacher to try and cut in, Schumacher was already on his line for the corner. Nick locked up for a moment, couldn't get off the brakes in time to avoid the grass and then slid across and speard Schumi. So at best, 50% racing incident, 50% Heidfeld. I'd say your right about him hitting the grass and becoming a passenger, but he could have taken him at an upcoming corner.


Hmmmm, i dont think you can say 50 50, to me schumi didnt expect hiedfeld to make a pass there, yes he came from far back, but thats because he saw a gap (shcumi didnt cover the inside line) so hiedfeld brakes later than shcumi, moves to the inside, at which point M S says, 'oh shit didnt see that one coming, no you dont you git', turns across on hiedfeld (whilst he's along side) to scare him into submission, but hiedfeld has nowhere to go other than the grass ( he did swerve a little more than needed, but he thought schumi was on a collision course).
You cant just force people off the road when they dive up the inside of you.
An exact copy of a manouver similar to hiedfelds happened in the 1st corner of the grand prix, coulthard was very late on the brakes, locked up slightly, and dived down the inside of webber (who had his wits about him). He held his line, webber gave space and it was a clean pass.
The same would have happened if shcumi had relented. But he's not exactly famous for giving anyone space.

[|Nuno|]

The Swedish commentators (one of the dudes knows very much about F1) were also certain that it was Schumis fault. They said that he's become to arrogant and think that rules doesn't apply to him because of all his titles. I pretty much agree.

And? That's their opinion, and I'm cool with that. But just 'cause they are TV commentators doesn't mean that their opinion is more valid that mine or yours. I fail to understand the second part tough...

Also, I don't see why everyone is making a big deal out of this... :?

[|Nuno|]

at which point M S says, 'oh shit didnt see that one coming, no you dont you git'

Actualy, this was what he said:

Michael Schumacher has insisted that he wasn't to blame for the crash at the Australian GP which ended both his and Nick Heidfeld's race.
While the Williams driver is adamant that Schumi was at fault, the World Champion claims it was merely a racing accident.

The incident took place with 15 laps of the grand prix remaining when Heidfeld attempted to pass Schumacher into Turn 5, only to be forced off the track and, unable to brake sufficiently on the grass, slammed into the side of the Ferrari.

"With this type of thing there are always different opinions and mine is that it is impossible to blame either one of us," maintained a chastened Schumi. "I saw him behind me just as I came out of the pits and I made it clear I was defending my position. At one point I lost sight of him in the mirrors and went into the corner when I felt I'd been hit.

"I have seen the incident on film: Heidfeld was on the grass and so was not in full control of his car. I can't blame him for trying to overtake me. My car was slightly damaged in the collision and there was no point in going on."

[ZfrkS62]

Also, I don't see why everyone is making a big deal out of this...


Because Schumacher is involved. Had it been Heidfeld and a Jordan or Minardi, no one would care. but because the champ was involved, it's of interest to everyone :roll:

[SFDMALEX]

All I have to say is that Schumi was following the racing line going into the corner, and most of the time as in real life road accidents, its the guy behind you thats responsible for any incident.

In my eyes I didnt see Heidfled do much to avoid the the collision. He just went in instead of going left a bit.

I see it more like a 50 50 deal. Both could have avoided the mess if they wanted to. :wink:

And the thing about Schumi getting pushed out by the marshals just shows how skilful and smart he is. First of all he didnt stall from the spin, second of all he avoided a long yellow flag session by getting the marshals out of a dangerous spot. So STFU.

And lastly, why are some of you bitching about it? I thought everybody wanted to spice up the show a bit, wanted drivers to be more agressive, pass and such.............Now we get into a bit of fender bending and people make a fucking tradegy out of it. You have to love all the Shumi haters, the little incident gets more coverage then all of the race put together.

[|Nuno|]

Also, I don't see why everyone is making a big deal out of this...


Because Schumacher is involved. Had it been Heidfeld and a Jordan or Minardi, no one would care. but because the champ was involved, it's of interest to everyone :roll:

Yeah, exacly. It's always the same...

[c_theodoros]

Quote:
how about the marshalls pushing him back into the race ???


He was in a dangerous place, in case you haven't noticed.


hmmm... Numo first of all cool down,

regarding the "dangerous" place, is at an evil coincidence the fact that whenever M.S. goes into a sandtrap he asking for the marshalls to push him back into the track ?? ++ he always gets away with it !?!?? how about all the other drivers ? I don't recall a single incident where anyone else asked to be pushed back into the track !?!?!! :twisted: but hey ! he is M.S. he can do whatever he wants !!!

btw I agree this was a racing incident, however M.S. was in the possision to avoid it !!! 8)

[|Nuno|]

Quote:
how about the marshalls pushing him back into the race ???


He was in a dangerous place, in case you haven't noticed.


hmmm... Numo first of all cool down,

regarding the "dangerous" place, is at an evil coincidence the fact that whenever M.S. goes into a sandtrap he asking for the marshalls to push him back into the track ?? ++ he always gets away with it !?!?? how about all the other drivers ? I don't recall a single incident where anyone else asked to be pushed back into the track !?!?!! :twisted: but hey ! he is M.S. he can do whatever he wants !!!

btw I agree this was a racing incident, however M.S. was in the possision to avoid it !!! 8)

Lol dude, it's Nuno. :wink: And I'm calm. :)

And about the rest, I won't even discuss. I'm sick of this "who to blame" and "Michael gets a special treatment" crap.

Like SFDMALEX said, people should pay more attention to the Race, and get over this incident.

[caneswell]

People are talking about it because its the only moderatly exciting event in the entire race!

[coombsie66]

^^ LOL, spot on mike. :lol:

[jakaracman]

you noticed though, by the time Heidfeld had gone from the outside of Schumacher to try and cut in, Schumacher was already on his line for the corner. Nick locked up for a moment, couldn't get off the brakes in time to avoid the grass and then slid across and speard Schumi. So at best, 50% racing incident, 50% Heidfeld. I'd say your right about him hitting the grass and becoming a passenger, but he could have taken him at an upcoming corner.
Go watch the replay again!
MS was on his line, then he turned sharply right to close the door on Heidfed and put him on the grass. MS mistake. Shit happens ...

@SFDMALEX: "All I have to say is that Schumi was following the racing line going into the corner"
Go watch ...

MS could be blamed for "not avoiding an avoidable accident" (FIA speak), but not for "causing an accident" ...

[twboy1999]

no one's fault

[mike_sayer]

I can't understand how anyone who has any kind of knowledge about racing (i.e. everyone on JW) can possibly think that that incident was Heidfeld's fault. Schumacher is never going to change, he always has done shit like that and he always will. He was off the line, Heidfeld saw the window and went for it (just like DC did on first corner, like coomsie said), and Schumi just slammed the door closed without hesitation.

Anyway, sfdmalex is right, it added a little excitement and that can't be a bad thing.

[T5]

People are talking about it because its the only moderatly exciting event in the entire race!

Even with the new rules, F1 is getting boring... :cry:

[|Nuno|]

People are talking about it because its the only moderatly exciting event in the entire race!

Even with the new rules, F1 is getting boring... :cry:

The new rules are the reason! Now it looks like a damn Enduro Race!...

[numerouno]

I don't think anyone was to blame. Just an accident as a result of the fierce competition!

[Sir_GT]

I saw the incident about 6 times already. During the race, during the replays, during this evenings highlights, during the race replay, and during the replays of the replays.

It was Michael's fault. Defending his racing line my ass. Heidfeld was well on his way to overtaking him (they were side by side already), and then Michael dove towards Heidfeld to force him onto the grass (which is something Michael normally does to defend his position), and because Heidfeld was going at overtaking speeds, there was no way he could've braked or turned the car in time to avoid shunting Michael.

Michael should be penalized. End of story. Only a Ferrari fanboy or somebody who hasn't seen the incident enough would think otherwise.

[mindgam3]

Partial racing incident but if it was anyones fault it was definately Michaels.

Heidfeld was trying to put a move on Schumacher, if Schui hadn't come across, Heidfeld would have got through and their wouldn't have been an accident.

Michael came across. If Heidfeld hadn't moved over, Michael would have been in the SIDE of heidfeld. So you can assume either MS didnt see heidfeld or was trying to force heidfeld to back off or run him off the track. Either way, MS was the driver who moved and so if anyone should be blamed, he should.

[coombsie66]

It was shcumi's fault, but it was in the context of racing, i dont believe it deserves penalising. He took himself out of the race anyway.

[racer_f50]

They said that he's become to arrogant and think that rules doesn't apply to him because of all his titles. I pretty much agree.
maybe they should look back at old footage of schumi and even the beloved Senna. great drivers tend to get a little to aggressive sometimes in their tactics. its nothing new to see schumacher trying to defend his position or bump another car while trying to pass.

c_theodoros, i think you may want to think about where Schumacher ended up after the accident. if another car would come in too hot or some mechanicals failed and it understeered off-track, then Schumacher's car could easily have been hit. heidfeld was more out of harms way.

[pengajim]

50/50 from my point of view, but one has to wonder how long MS will be allowed to do shit like that.

[Sir_GT]

I can't see how Michael was defending his racing line when Heidfeld was already directly at his side. If he was still behind Michael when Michael made the move, then yes, I would agree that Michael was simply defending and it was a simple accident... but that was just not the case.

[SPEEDCORE]

That was the 1st time I been to Melb that I found the race boring, those new rules sure do sux, I havent really seen the replay yet properly soo I cant say but Schumie just got out of the pits ahead of NH soo Im guessing he was just trying to get the position back as soon as possbile.