Minardi may miss Ausi GP because of Ferrari

[mindgam3]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32165

Basically Minardi needs all teams signatures to race last years car at the Melbourne GP as they've had troubles with engines as Cosworth were sold.

All teams have agreed Minardi can race, except Ferrari.

I think its fucking ridiculous, how low can you be? They're hardly a threat to Ferrari....

Personally I think its down to Paul Stoddart creating a leading GPWC and Ferrari realising this could not be good for them.

Ferrari's arrogance is killing the sport, most teams have a lot of respect for F1 but Ferrari continue to think F1 needs them more than they need F1... how wrong can they be, to me this is one step to far....arrogance

[|Nuno|]

Didn't you mean "Minardi may..."? :P

I say don't let them run. Wasn't Stoddart the one who said that Ferrari weren't following the "Rules"(I still don't know what rules he was talking about)? And yet, he now wants an exception...

[twboy1999]

rules are rules

everyone should follow them IMO

[mindgam3]

Didn't you mean "Minardi may..."? :P

I say don't let them run. Wasn't Stoddart the one who said that Ferrari weren't following the "Rules"(I still don't know what rules he was talking about)? And yet, he now wants an exception...

Sorry, my bad hehe

It's not an exception...

The rules state that Minardi may run their current car if all teams agree.... all of which have except ferrari.

Minardi weren't able to develop a car because you cant design a new car unless you know what engine you're getting. They didnt know if they had an engine or not as Cosworth were only recently in the process of being sold. They havent got the money to recover from something like that.

And as i said, what harm is Minardi to Ferrari? The only thing it is doing is damaging the sport, the fan base and the sooner Ferrari sort out their attitude the better....

[gucom]

ferrari has approved of minardi using the 2004 car, so minardi is racing in melbourne...only 4 days left...

[EDIT] websites giving changing messages create alot of confusion...sorry read my message below.... :oops:

[|Nuno|]

Didn't you mean "Minardi may..."? :P

I say don't let them run. Wasn't Stoddart the one who said that Ferrari weren't following the "Rules"(I still don't know what rules he was talking about)? And yet, he now wants an exception...

Sorry, my bad hehe

It's not an exception...

The rules state that Minardi may run their current car if all teams agree.... all of which have except ferrari.

Minardi weren't able to develop a car because you cant design a new car unless you know what engine you're getting. They didnt know if they had an engine or not as Cosworth were only recently in the process of being sold. They havent got the money to recover from something like that.

And as i said, what harm is Minardi to Ferrari? The only thing it is doing is damaging the sport, the fan base and the sooner Ferrari sort out their attitude the better....

I see your point. The thing is:

Ferrari isn't doing this 'cause they fear Minardi or 'cause "they can". They're doing this 'cause Stoddart was the whole Winter bitching about Ferrari this, Ferrari that... All the time he keeps blaming Ferrari for everything and bringing their image down, and now he wants their signature?

I mean, if someone called you a liar, would you lend him some money?

I'm sure that if he weren't whining all the time and bashing Ferrari, they would let them race. He dug his own grave...

Don't get me wrong tough, I like Minardi and think they're important for the sport, but I'm SICK of Stoddart's constant whining. If he has so many problems, why doesn't him shut up and try to solve them, instead of trying to get the Media's attention?

And to be honest, I think they're just playing with him, they're probably just giving him a warning; eventually they will sign, I think...

[|Nuno|]

And to be honest, I think they're just playing with him, they're probably just giving him a warning; eventually they will sign, I think...


ferrari has approved of minardi using the 2004 car, so minardi is racing in melbourne...only 4 days left...


:shock:

*Leaves to the closest Casino*

[redbaron]

I thought Minardi already tested their 2005 car a couple of weeks ago...
I agree with lost of you, rules are rules and what would be next.

[mindgam3]

When you get bias like this in contracts i dont blame Stoddart for whining:

- Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.

- Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.

- Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.

[gucom]

:? im confused just a couple of hours i saw a website wher it said ferrari agreed, now the same website says they dont...so apparently ferrari is playing it hard...i say they should accept, i know rules are rules, but it'd be very bad for Minardi if they couldnt race the first 3 races, and minardi is already in so much trouble...it'd be a huge shame if F1 lost yet another team...i htink it'd be best for the sport if Ferrari accepted

owh and nuno, i'd wait just a little while before you spend all your savings in the casino lol

[mindgam3]

When you get bias like this in contracts i dont blame Stoddart for whining:

- Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.

- Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.

- Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.


and none of what you said can be blamed on Ferrari. who is in charge of all that, not Ferrari. who ever agreed to those terms, is to be blamed. who ever agreed to it should have not and put thier foot down, and Ferrari wouldnt have had any other choice.

i say the same thing about the NHL players, had the gm's and owner's not agreed to pay someone the amount they thought they deserved then there wouldnt be a fucking lockout. but they give in to what the players wanted and now blame the players.

sorry i dont think so, and this is the same thing now. no one should be blaming Ferrari.

They havent agreed, thats why most teams are looking to start a new GPWC.....

[|Nuno|]

owh and nuno, i'd wait just a little while before you spend all your savings in the casino lol

Lol, yeah, it's better wait a little bit.

When you get bias like this in contracts i dont blame Stoddart for whining:

- Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.

- Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.

- Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.

I'm not sure if those figures are 100% correct, but lets assume they are.

Ferrari are World Champions, so by nature they'll receive more money. But that's not the point.

The point is:

Ferrari knows that they're important for the sport, and they're just taking advantage of that. Plain and simple. Arrogant?

Maybe, but this isn't the Red Cross. This is F1, and Ferrari wants to win. So, more money, more chances...

I would do the same, Stoddart would probably do the same...

Also, if that's true, why don't we see the other teams bitching like Stoddart does? Sorry, but I'm just sick of the guy...

"Aw, we don't have money, poor little us, lets blame Ferrari..."

Jordan also has lot of troubles, and yet they're not always whining, and they have their car ready.

And it's funny that when Ferrari didn't win shit, nobody cared about them, or about the sport being boring...

[SFDMALEX]

Who gives a rats ass about Minardi? Its not as if they are of any competition to any one, or ever will be for that matter. If you ask me they are just a safety hazard, its like having a safety car going around in green flag conditions...

[|Nuno|]

and nuno which casino you going to?

Lol, after this I'm not going anymore; not that I would anyway, I was only joking (no shit?!). :D

But if I were, I'd go to the Estoril Casino. :mrgreen:

[dingo]

well I don't care about Minardi either, but the other 8 teams have threatened to boycott the entire race if Ferrari doesn't sign......and thats when I start caring :(
But I really doubt it will go that far, Nuno is most likely right in what he said :wink:

[mindgam3]

I'm not sure if those figures are 100% correct, but lets assume they are.

Ferrari are World Champions, so by nature they'll receive more money. But that's not the point.

The point is:

Ferrari knows that they're important for the sport, and they're just taking advantage of that. Plain and simple. Arrogant?

Maybe, but this isn't the Red Cross. This is F1, and Ferrari wants to win. So, more money, more chances...

I would do the same, Stoddart would probably do the same...

Also, if that's true, why don't we see the other teams bitching like Stoddart does? Sorry, but I'm just sick of the guy...

"Aw, we don't have money, poor little us, lets blame Ferrari..."

Jordan also has lot of troubles, and yet they're not always whining, and they have their car ready.

And it's funny that when Ferrari didn't win shit, nobody cared about them, or about the sport being boring...

but when ferrari weren't winning, the other teams weren't getting preferential treatment from the FIA and bernie now were they?

Sure, i'm not denying that Ferrari is the best team out there at the moment and that you should get money for coming first and winning the world championship.... but why the hell should Ferrari get more money than anyone else REGARDLESS of what position they finish?

The other teams have complained, thats why they aren't signing the contract and are moving towards GPWC.

I didnt see Williams and McLaren DEMANDING more money than anyone else when they were dominant.... thats exactly what Ferrari are doing now...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=32163

[SFDMALEX]

well I don't care about Minardi either, but the other 8 teams have threatened to boycott the entire race if Ferrari doesn't sign......and thats when I start caring :(
But I really doubt it will go that far, Nuno is most likely right in what he said :wink:

That would be great. If they did boycott because of Ferrari. Ferrari would just show how powerfull they are lol. They can make the sport or brake the sport.........facinating.

[mindgam3]

well I don't care about Minardi either, but the other 8 teams have threatened to boycott the entire race if Ferrari doesn't sign......and thats when I start caring :(
But I really doubt it will go that far, Nuno is most likely right in what he said :wink:

That would be great. If they did boycott because of Ferrari. Ferrari would just show how powerfull they are lol. They can make the sport or brake the sport.........facinating.

And thats what Ferrari think, but with regards to GPWC, ferrari is a comparatively small company compared to the Automotive giants they're up against.... Ferrari cant race on their own

[|Nuno|]

but when ferrari weren't winning, the other teams weren't getting preferential treatment from the FIA and bernie now were they?


See, that works both ways... How many times has the FIA changed the rules to slow Ferrari down, and thus harming them and giving that "preferencial treatment" to the other teams?

And if they change the rules 'cause of Ferrari, why don't they do the same about McLaren, for example? Talking about the 3rd car on Friday Practises here...

About the money, I already said what I think.

Ah, and about GPWC: weren't they all friends and wasn't everything fine before Ferrari pulled out? Go figure.

Mind you, I support it, but Ferrari is again playing with both sides. They know what they're doing...

[mindgam3]

but when ferrari weren't winning, the other teams weren't getting preferential treatment from the FIA and bernie now were they?


See, that works both ways... How many times has the FIA changed the rules to slow Ferrari down, and thus harming them and giving that "preferencial treatment" to the other teams?



Rule changes effect every team and slow all teams down. The only thing it does do is put the costs up for the smaller budget teams.



Ah, and about GPWC: weren't they all friends and wasn't everything fine before Ferrari pulled out? Go figure.



Ferrari went behind the GPWC group's back and signed a contract with bernie and mosley without consulting any other team.

If GPWC does go ahead, the playing field will be level. F1 as it currently stands is far from a level playing field in terms of money and as I said, rule changes only effect the smaller teams budget, nothing else.

And on a side note, Renault, BMW and Daimler Chysler were the companies steering the GPWC and Honda and Toyota later followed.... Minardi didnt join until later.

The new GPWC will mean all teams have an equal share in the rules, not dominated by the FIA, as well as the income generated which will also be equally distributed. Contracts have also been drawn up so that bigger companies will supply the smaller teams from next year onwards. Hence why Sauber have moved to GPWC as Ferrari have not agreed to GPWC.

[|Nuno|]

^^

Yeah, and I'll agree with that. GPWC is the way to go IMO. The FIA has no idea of what they're doing. But like I said, Ferrari does...

Rule changes effect every team and slow all teams down

Yeah, that's the main concept, BUT the FIA already said many times that Ferrari is the main reason why they changed the rules (remember 2003?). And that is benefiting the other teams and harming Ferrari, and the smaller teams...

[mindgam3]

^^

Yeah, and I'll agree with that. GPWC is the way to go IMO. The FIA has no idea of what they're doing. But like I said, Ferrari does...

Rule changes effect every team and slow all teams down

Yeah, that's the main concept, BUT the FIA already said many times that Ferrari is the main reason why they changed the rules (remember 2003?). And that is benefiting the other teams and harming Ferrari, and the smaller teams...

What they say and what actually happens are seperate issues :P

As the rules specifically effect every single team then they are not giving an advantage to anyone and the only disadvantaging teams. The smaller the budget/team the harder you are hit and as Ferrari have one of the biggest budgets, they are least effected. more changes = more development = higher cost so smaller teams can only just conform to the new rules but do not have enough time/money to develop new parts whilst bigger teams like Ferrari can not only easily conform to the rules but also can make sure they get the greatest possible gains.

So actually new rules all the time are just moving the smaller teams further and further away from the bigger teams and hence harming the sport.

It says something when one of the biggest Automotive companies in the world has to pull out because of lack of winning mainly due to overwhelming costs

[|Nuno|]

^^

Yeah, and I'll agree with that. GPWC is the way to go IMO. The FIA has no idea of what they're doing. But like I said, Ferrari does...

Rule changes effect every team and slow all teams down

Yeah, that's the main concept, BUT the FIA already said many times that Ferrari is the main reason why they changed the rules (remember 2003?). And that is benefiting the other teams and harming Ferrari, and the smaller teams...

What they say and what actually happens are seperate issues :P

As the rules specifically effect every single team then they are not giving an advantage to anyone and the only disadvantage is to that of the smaller teams as more changes = more development = higher cost so smaller teams can only just conform to the new rules but do not have enough time/money to develop new parts whilst bigger teams like Ferrari can not only easily conform to the rules but also can make sure they get the greatest possible gains.

So actually new rules all the time are just moving the smaller teams further and further away from the bigger teams and hence harming the sport.

It says something when one of the biggest Automotive companies in the world has to pull out because of lack of winning mainly due to overwhelming costs

Just an example:

In 2003, when introduced, the F2003 GA had a moveable ballast that could be changed after Qualy to improve the Race Setup and of course the Qualy setup as well. By that time we still had the 12 lap Qualy (and how I miss it...) but strangely (or not), a bit latter the FIA decided to change the Qualy format and introduced the Parc Fermé rule...

So something that could be a good advantadge, turned into wasted $$...

And I don't think that's a coincidence... And like I said, the FIA said many times that they indeed tryed to slow down Ferrari.

But since they're a bunch of dumbasses, they only harmed the smaller teams...

And I'm done with this discussion. We're going around on circles. :)

[SFDMALEX]

And thats what Ferrari think, but with regards to GPWC, ferrari is a comparatively small company compared to the Automotive giants they're up against.... Ferrari cant race on their own

Sure they can mate :D And people will come to see it...Ferrari will start their own little F1 Challenge series.

[|Nuno|]

UPDATE:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=23663

Red Bull decided to decline Stoddart's proposal. Now lets bash them, shall we? :P

Better change the topic tittle. :wink:

EDIT:

Now I'm confused...

From F1Racing.Net:


Minardi pass scrutineering

Minardi's 'illegal' 2004 car today passed official FIA scrutineering at Albert Park. "The car complies," said Paul Stoddart, who now needs to present an application for dispensation bearing the signature of every other F1 principal.

Only Ferrari's Jean Todt hasn't signed, but - despite the earlier, adverse, phone call - Stoddart vowed to visit the Frenchman's Melbourne hotel later tonight.

He hinted that the backlash by Australian fans, should Ferrari block Minardi's ability to race at home, would likely be unprecedented -- including the burning of team memorabilia.
-----------

What the hell??:? This is too confusing... I guess I'll just wait for Saturday/Sunday...

[mindgam3]

lol, confused too....

I can see why Red Bull are arguing against as they are direct competitors.

Either way, whats I think happened is that Minardi have now got a car that complies with ALL 2005 regulations and so therefore comply to EVERY rule.

But as its based on a 2004 car, they need signatures from every team to compete. If that is the case then Red Bull and Ferrari have no case what so ever.

Either way as you say Nuno, it is rather confusing, and I'll wait to see what ITV have to say on sat/sun ;)

[5vz-fe]

Minardi reach deal with Red Bull
Thursday March 03 2005

Red Bull have agreed to Minardi’s request that they can race in Australia using last year’s cars.

The team’s boss, Christian Horner, had earlier in the day declared that he wouldn’t support Minardi’s plea, arguing that “rules are rules” and adding "My position and that of Red Bull is that nothing would be more frustrating for us in a debut race to finish ninth with a Minardi ahead of us and a point taken from us."

However later in the day the team’s position changed (Red Bull and volte face are becoming somewhat synonymous) after Paul Stoddart and Horner met at an engagement in Melbourne and the Minardi bossed agreed that if Minardi finished in the top eight and ahead of Red Bull in the race then they would give up their points and position.

Minardi need a unanimous vote from all the teams if the FIA stewards are to let them race. And with Ferrari still refusing to back down – or even talk to Minardi – it’s still a case of nine down, a very stubborn one still to go ahead of the 11am deadline on Friday in Melbourne...

I think this is really pathetic, F1 is a place where teams are suppose to be competitive and not just playing on plain pitty. I think we already got a few different AMG safety cars, we don't need 2 more.

[sameerrao]

I think Ferrari is more concerned that if a precedent is set here for Minardi, Mclaren or someone else might exploit it similarly later.

Minardi knew the rules. It failed to deliver.

Till recently, I used to cheer for Minardi, it being the underdog and such. But Paul Stoddardt's constant whinging is pissing me off. Minardi looks like it is happy being the runt of the pack. It needs to invest in the car more and move forward. What's the point in complaining year after year without doing something about it? If F1 is too expensive race somewhere else where it would be more competitive..

Substitute it with a third Ferrari or Mclaren

[5vz-fe]

The court granted Minardi cars to run on Saturaday now, but want difference does that make anyways......all Paul wants is to get his car some explosures so that his sponsors won't quit on him.

[SlickDizzy]

Man, I wonder what this whole thing would be like if Arrows was still around :shock:

[|Nuno|]

Minardi gets permission to run 2004 specs

"Good news for the Minardi Formula One team. Mr Justice Hapersberger of the Supreme Court of the State of Victoria this afternoon granted an interim injunction to allow the Minardi F1 Team to take part in the 2005 Australian Grand Prix practice and qualifying sessions on Saturday, March 5, with the cars in 2004 chassis and engine specification.

A further hearing is scheduled for 1415 hrs on March 5, at which time the FIA, if it wishes, can appear and respond to the application. This means the team, who was not allowed to run on Friday, is able to begin Saturday's free practice with the car they tested with at Imola and Misano."


http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=78654

[666fast]

When you get bias like this in contracts i dont blame Stoddart for whining:

- Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.

- Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.

- Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship.

Didn't Ferrari also just sign an agreement with the FIA to race untill 2012? I forget where I read it, but Ferrari stands to make an enormous amount of money off of it somehow.

A lot of the boohooing thats going on in F1 is eerily similar to what happened to Cart before it split into two different organizations. Do I need to remind everyone here of the the utterly sad state of open wheel racing in America? LOL

I know it seems like Ferrari is getting favored by the FIA and I agree, but I don't think it's the extent people make it out to be. The problem is that it shouldn't happen at all. It's only going of piss off the other teams that spend an obscene amount of money. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them wanted a spin off series.