Please post more about driving techniques

[WhiteP]

I hope people will post more articles on driving techniques and their experience about driving. Oversteer, understeer, heel and toe, double clutching, auto crossing..... etc. I think driving a car is VERY fun, especially when I got improved on the driving skills or individual techniques. Even you have the best car in the world, but without appropriate techiques it is pointless. I would rather driving better and better with a old car than not knowing how to drive a best car in the world.

Well, I hope you don't mind my English language since it is not my first language.

Thanks.

[WhiteP]

TurnFast: Driving Techniques

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving.lasso

[WhiteP]

Virtual M5 Driving School

http://www.bmwm5.com/greg/school/

[novass]

^^ that virtual M5 site is cool :D :D

[1zippo1]

That is a very nice site. Thx for telling us about it Whitep.

Now I just need to go out and buy an M5 :mrgreen: Oh wait, I think I'm just gonna come about 55.000 euro's short. Just have to wait till I get my allowance next weekend :P

[draak666]

Yeah, great idea to start this topic WhiteP.

Two very nice sites. Thanks a lot. If I ever run into an other one I will let you know.

[PaulGT2164]

heres my two cents of a unique driving style =)
how to lauch and audi S4 with an APR stage 1 chip (390hp, 410ft/lbs)

at the stop reve to 4k twice (build boost, normally in 1st gear it doesnt boost to the full 19psi)

on the thrid rev bring it up to 4500 and let off , the second you left off drop the clutch and hammer it =)
if you done it right the tires will break loose (good on the powertrain instead of no spin)
hard shift into second and break'em loose again, and shift at 60mph

i have some video of this, ill post a link later

[WhiteP]

thanks for your input Paul. You own both a S4 and a Celica Turbo?
looking forward to your video

[PaulGT2164]

the S4 is my best friends, i work on it and race it for him tho. i should have some video saturday of it obliterating a 385 HP camaro Z28 among some other cars =)

i just installed new diverter valves, throttle body boot, tranny brace, snumb mount, and APR stage 1 ECU
we are putting a new suspension under it soon =)

its around 380-390hp
and 400-410 ft/lbs
=D

[WhiteP]

Heel and Toe

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread/t-6055.html

http://www.modernracer.com/tips/heelandtoeshifting.html

[WhiteP]

Drifting

http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm

[Anonymous]

*WFO* best driving tip ever!

[WhiteP]

What's WFO?

[Turbo Supra]

personally i love oversteer on my car taking it into turns at highspeed wit the boost on max gives me a huge adreline boost.. like the saying goes.. "if ur in control of ur car you arent going fast enough" ;)

[WhiteP]

Shifting Techniques

http://www.happytogether.com/318ti/notebook/shifting/

[overrev]

If you want to improve your driving skills. I think the best way is to purchase a book call "Going Faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving. It give out alot of information. Such as, shifting techniques, racing lines, braking, driving in the rain, tires, etc.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0837602262.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[666fast]

Books and videos can help, but nothing will beat actually driving. If you can, get yourself out to a track and have at it.

[jon_s]

Cheers for all the links.....they have been useful! Especially since I am going for a track day driving EVO's around all day for ,y B-day next month. www.udrivecars.com

[novass]

Cheers for all the links.....they have been useful! Especially since I am going for a track day driving EVO's around all day for ,y B-day next month. www.udrivecars.com

that looks like it will be fun! you gonna drive the STi too?

[WhiteP]

thanks for the book and the page
too bad I don't have money to buy the book at the moment :(

[666fast]

Go here, lots and lots of good stuff to read.
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm

It gets updated fairly often, so you might want to bookmark it and check in every now and then.

[rp]

uhh lots of good material, thanks :D

[Copso]

the S4 is my best friends, i work on it and race it for him tho. i should have some video saturday of it obliterating a 385 HP camaro Z28 among some other cars =)

i just installed new diverter valves, throttle body boot, tranny brace, snumb mount, and APR stage 1 ECU
we are putting a new suspension under it soon =)

its around 380-390hp
and 400-410 ft/lbs
=D

My dear friend paul, I hink you're completely wrong, your friends' S4 could never put out 390 HP with just the Stage I mods. The chip only raises boost presure to about 1.3 Bar (19 Psi) but that's only worth to about 300 Hp at the crank (std S4 is 260 Hp for the US version). To get more out of the S4 you MUST do a lot of other mods.

I know because I owned a '00 S4 (european version) and after installing the APR Stage III kit (APR software, K04 turbos, RS4 intake manifold, MAF housing, modded intercoolers, FPR, gas pump and fuel injectors, Milltek downpipes, sports high-flow cats and free-flowing dual exhaust, Unorthodox Racing aluminum flywheel, AWE S-flo intake -among other things-) all it did was 412 Hp and 430 Lb-Ft of torque, but that figures were an estimate of how much the engine put out AT THE CRANKSHAFT, the real Hp figures at the wheels was down to about to 290 Hp (287.73Hp to be exact, measured in the only 4-wheel dynamometer in Mexico).

So all in all, with just a chip you would never, NEVER even close to 400 HP, believe me.

[PaulGT2164]

well considering itran low to mid 12s we have no dyno so we have to guestimate, and we where talking at the flywheel which would translate to about 330 or less at the wheels, which is about right...and if you read the post,. it had alot more than what was listed, idg intake, miltek exhaust/downpipes/cats...and we have a vagcom to monitor the engine, and it was welled tuned, so i stand by my claim at 390hp at the crank....the chip has 3 levels too, and we have a endles supply ov over 100 octane fuel...

[graywolf624]

Drive to win by Carrol Smith.
Simply the best road racing book ever.

[Sciby]

Just a quick note on heel-&-toe'ing... if you've never done it before, it can be a little frustrating/scary, especially when you get it wrong and give it too much throttle. Practice definitely makes perfect, and do it without the stereo. I've been doing it for a couple of years now and 50% of getting it right is feeling what the engine is doing. Once you get it right, you'll *feel* it more than anything. There's no surge forward from too much throttle, there's no lurch from too little, it's just right, and it feels even better when you start coming out of the corner and think "Wow, I'm right in the middle bit of my powerband!" and mash the throttle. :twisted:

[Copso]

well considering itran low to mid 12s we have no dyno so we have to guestimate, and we where talking at the flywheel which would translate to about 330 or less at the wheels, which is about right...and if you read the post,. it had alot more than what was listed, idg intake, miltek exhaust/downpipes/cats...and we have a vagcom to monitor the engine, and it was welled tuned, so i stand by my claim at 390hp at the crank....the chip has 3 levels too, and we have a endles supply ov over 100 octane fuel...

Not that I don't believe you, just that with just a chip mod is IMPOSIBLE to achieve such evels of performance, I'm sure the S4 you ran has a lot more mods (bigger turbos, FRP, fuel injectors, etc.)... Trust me ;)

[SamuraiGti]

Only here that they don't do Track Days ...

With a circuit like Estoril, and they don't open it to public in general =\

[ChrisAW11]

For heel and toeing, I still find it difficult at normal driving situations and normal braking decelerations to keep the braking constant... The throttle is just so much deeper in the foot room than the brake pedal in my car (MR2 Mk1), so I have to move almost the complete foot off the brake in order to blip the throttle. Is there any workaround you guys know about, like a special technique for such pedal constellations, or is it possible to adjust the throttle position in an 86 MR2 (haven't bothered looking for the necessary bolts or nuts yet :| ) ? For harsher braking, the position is actually alright I guess... Any suggestions?

[PaulGT2164]

well its not just a chip mod....miltek downpipes, cats, and exhaust, intake, 104+ octane gas, spec stage 2 clutch...and well tuned..i know what it ran, i was the one driving it considering its 260-270 hp stock at the flywheel, and with the chip, downpipes, intake, and all new o2 sensors, i can see 80-100 more hp outta that quiet easily...i dont really car if you belive me or not, me and about 200 other people all seen it, and considering some of the cars it has easy made quick work of its all good, i even have some video of the races i may post later

[Copso]

well its not just a chip mod....miltek downpipes, cats, and exhaust, intake, 104+ octane gas, spec stage 2 clutch...and well tuned..i know what it ran, i was the one driving it considering its 260-270 hp stock at the flywheel, and with the chip, downpipes, intake, and all new o2 sensors, i can see 80-100 more hp outta that quiet easily...i dont really car if you belive me or not, me and about 200 other people all seen it, and considering some of the cars it has easy made quick work of its all good, i even have some video of the races i may post later

Take it easy! All I was saying is that with only a chip modification it's impossible for a stock Audi S4 to reach 400 Hp...

If you say the car you drove has a lot other mods besides the chip (bigger downpipes and cats, exhaust, intake, etc. plus the fact you were using 104 octane racing gasoline) that's more reasonable, altough it's still hard to believe it would put out 400Hp at the wheels (O2 sensors DO NOT increase horsepower, trust me).

Anyway, it would be nice if you posted the video, that would dissipate all the remaining doubt, and if you say you ran low to mid 12's on a certified NHRA dragstrip in an S4 equipped with just minor mods (chip, downpipes, exhaust), I believe you, just don't tell the guys at AWE Tuning, APR, ABD, MTM, Sportech, etc. ;) all of them must be wrong.

I strongly recommend you this month's issue of European Car magazine, where they tested a host of modified S4's ranging from 340 to 425+ Hp and look at their 1/4 mile times ;) maybe that would shed some light.

Take care and wish you improve your writing :lol:

[PaulGT2164]

i never said it was almost 400hp to the wheels...i said, multiple times that it was around 390 at the flywheel, theres a big big difference there...

i know 02 sensors dont, but they were replaced anyhows, APRs info says wiht just chipped, a 2001 6 speed S4 will put out 318hp/382gt lbs torque at the flywheel...just with the chipped, in race mode...add on miltek downpipes and exhaust (factory rated at a 40-50hp gain free flowing cats is good for another 12-15, and the intake (factory rated at 5-10hp) and the fact we were running high octance gas, with both intercoolers sprayed before the track..and 390 flywheel hp is very believable and maybe even a lil conservative, the ecu also ahd been re-flashed by apr to stage 2 or version 2 specs, which was supposed to mae a difference, that and with the other upgrades (spec stage 2 clutch, bailey blowoffs, and new throttle body boot, toyman short shifter, and a lower tranny brace, its easily acheiveable to be in the 12s, the can is in the upper 13s stock, and lower 13s chipped. that and i know how to lauch and drive a awd car, haveing worked on/raced vr-4s, subies, and a slew of awd dsms.

i will try to post the vids on my website with a description of each this week

if you get my point then i dont need to improve my typing, i work afternoons building small engines, and my hands dont exactly feel nimble. :lol:

[hotgemini]

For heel and toeing, I still find it difficult at normal driving situations and normal braking decelerations to keep the braking constant... The throttle is just so much deeper in the foot room than the brake pedal in my car (MR2 Mk1), so I have to move almost the complete foot off the brake in order to blip the throttle. Is there any workaround you guys know about, like a special technique for such pedal constellations, or is it possible to adjust the throttle position in an 86 MR2 (haven't bothered looking for the necessary bolts or nuts yet :| ) ? For harsher braking, the position is actually alright I guess... Any suggestions?

Yes, Bend the accelerator pedal, I know it sounds harsh but pedal positioning matters.

As for te topic in general, I'm with 666fast although I'll go one step further, perhaps I'm a little biased here but I honestly believe there is no substitute for a skilled instructor. Even with the rough racing line marked with cones you can send someone WHO KNOWS ALL THE THEORY BACK TO FRONT (!!!) out and you can be 95% sure they'll be slower after 20 laps on their own than they would have been after 4 laps with a decent instructor.

[veilsidebr]

Basics of driving are these: control, handling and grip. There are many others, but if you try to take these 3 in perfect, you will drive fast, so fast, and will improve speed and lap times, if it´s on a race track.

Double Clutching helps a lot in a fast driving, when you want anyway to make better lap times or just drive so fast. If you don´t know what´s double Clutching, it´s this:

When you are for sample at 100 miles an hour on a straight, and the next corner is about 100 meters ahead, in an ordinary driving, you would do this sequence -
gas off, step on the brakes and clutch, and change the gears down untill the correct gear to exit the corner with fullpower, ok?

But doing the double clutching, you will "rev" the engine for just an instance, the gear change, in this case, when you´ll down a gear. so the sequence would be this-

gas off, step on brakes and clutch, so when you go to change the gear down - for sample, the 5th to 4th - you quickly, leaning your right foot to left side, press at the same time the brakes(pushing it) and quickly step on the gas, just step.

The rev will up, and double clutching technique is to do this in each gear you change down when braking to enter on a turn.

With this Technique, you gain more speed on corner exits, because the rev of the engine will be increased´(you´ll enter the straight at a higher RPM level) and you would take more speed with this.

Just training will make you do this naturaly, but it´s not hard. Just pratice.

:D

[snacky]

I never double clutch. with syncros, there's no need to double clutch. I go straight into the gear I need to exit the corner and blip the gas as I brake ( heal and toe).

for example, if I'm in 4th doing 100 mph and need slow for a 40 mph corner. I'll brake, then clutch and then tap the gas to get the revs to about 3000 rpm and then slide it into 2nd.

I wont go through all the gears and I dont like to use engine braking, brake pads and rotors are cheap. engines and tranny parts are not.

[gottacatchup]

Basics of driving are these: control, handling and grip. There are many others, but if you try to take these 3 in perfect, you will drive fast, so fast, and will improve speed and lap times, if it´s on a race track.

Double Clutching helps a lot in a fast driving, when you want anyway to make better lap times or just drive so fast. If you don´t know what´s double Clutching, it´s this:

When you are for sample at 100 miles an hour on a straight, and the next corner is about 100 meters ahead, in an ordinary driving, you would do this sequence -
gas off, step on the brakes and clutch, and change the gears down untill the correct gear to exit the corner with fullpower, ok?

But doing the double clutching, you will "rev" the engine for just an instance, the gear change, in this case, when you´ll down a gear. so the sequence would be this-

gas off, step on brakes and clutch, so when you go to change the gear down - for sample, the 5th to 4th - you quickly, leaning your right foot to left side, press at the same time the brakes(pushing it) and quickly step on the gas, just step.

The rev will up, and double clutching technique is to do this in each gear you change down when braking to enter on a turn.

With this Technique, you gain more speed on corner exits, because the rev of the engine will be increased´(you´ll enter the straight at a higher RPM level) and you would take more speed with this.

Just training will make you do this naturaly, but it´s not hard. Just pratice.

:D

That's not double clutching that's heel toeing

double clutching is while changing gear ingage neutral and blip the throttle to match the transmission speed to engine speed so you can shift smoothly but its a complete waste because of the wonders of sycros

[poodie]

I tried to teach myself heal- toe. in my civic my peddles are too far apart to do it easily, i really have to turn my leg to get my foot on both pedals. maybe its not that they are too far apart its just that, im not sure haha, you just cant really do it. on the other hand ive developed my own "side foot- side foot" technique where i have a some of the left side of my shoe on the brake and some of my right on the gas and i can just roll my ankle and blip the throttle for smooth downshifting and braking. so i guess if your car isnt heal toe friendly you could try that.

[hotgemini]

Double Clutching helps a lot in a fast driving, when you want anyway to make better lap times or just drive so fast. If you don´t know what´s double Clutching.

Apologies for the big snip, but I really disagree both with the crux of your post and with much of its content. Fancy braking and gearchange techniques REALLY aren't that important, I have NO END of customers who couldn't follow the racing line to save their life but are trying their damnedest to heel-toe at every down-change.

The actual purpose of the heel-toe downchange is to match the speed of the engine to the speed it will need to be turning once the lower gear is engaged and the clutch released, there by largely eliminating engine braking. Which is a good thing because in a well setup racecar the brake balance is set WRT the force of the brakes alone, not the force of the brakes + engine braking. In a road car the braking bias is usually so far to the front that any gains from heel-toeing are largely eliminated.

Double-clutching is different but similar, it is used to match the speed of the gears in the gearbox (well, synchros or dogs in any modern constant mesh gearbox) to make engaging the next gear easier and reduce the strain on the box itself.

Unless you're line is terrible or your braking markers are miles off, heel-toeing WON'T lead to higher corner exit speeds, what it will allow is a later braking point.

I hope this correction is of assistance.

[hotgemini]

I tried to teach myself heal- toe. in my civic my peddles are too far apart to do it easily, i really have to turn my leg to get my foot on both pedals. maybe its not that they are too far apart its just that, im not sure haha, you just cant really do it. on the other hand ive developed my own "side foot- side foot" technique where i have a some of the left side of my shoe on the brake and some of my right on the gas and i can just roll my ankle and blip the throttle for smooth downshifting and braking. so i guess if your car isnt heal toe friendly you could try that.

Poodie, the name heel-toe is misleading, it is just that, 'inside of foot' and 'outside of foot'. The name originates from cars with the pedals a VERY long way apart where you could turn your foot fully side-on.

[graywolf624]

"One thing I allways do, brake enough beforce I enter the corner and then keep on accelerating true the corner (FWD), maybe even shift into a higher gear. Gets you trough it rather fast, a lot less understear to allmost none and no need for brake correction in the corner. "

Interesting but the correct way to do it is brake either comming up to the turn or if your talented then trail brake into it. Then coast till the apex. Then feather on acceleration from the apex on.

[graywolf624]

trail braking is braking while in comming into the turn and during the first portion of the turn.

You see your route around a corner should take a parabolic path that is as smooth and wide as possible thus to make the turn as non sharp as possible. The point of this parabolic path is called the apex. In general as you come up to the turn you start on the outside braking before you turn in(or braking while turn in if you tail brake. YOU MUST BE GOOD TO DO THIS). Your not accelerating though after you turn in. You proceed to coast until you reach the apex which is usually the inner point in the turn. At that point you feather on the gas to maximize exit speed.

[poodie]

Poodie, the name heel-toe is misleading, it is just that, 'inside of foot' and 'outside of foot'. The name originates from cars with the pedals a VERY long way apart where you could turn your foot fully side-on.

well you learn something new everyday. ive just seen tiff and others and it looked like they were infact doing healtoe where as i just tilt my foot, but its all the same concept.

[DinoGuan]

wow, one of the best threads ive read in a long while, awsome info guys.

[kian]

thanks for the site .......=-)

[yin_cheong]

In Singapore, there are libraries around, and I had found a couple of good books telling on how to drive fast. Hopefully you can find one in your area! Books are good to begin with I reckon, cos I am a beginner. =)