M3 or M5

[WRX]

Hey guys. Haven't been around in a while. I sold my WRX and bought a Ford F150 SuperCrew for the family but now it's about time for a new car. I have been going back and forth between a M3 and a M5. I can't afford a new one so they would be used. Between the 2002 and 2004 model years. What do you guys think? If not an M car what else do you think in the $35-45,000.00 Price range.

[ZfrkS62]

hmmm...for an M5 you'd have to get a 2003 to have the latest..but i think for 35-40K, you'd have to get an M3. Not that the 3 is any less fun :wink:

[SilviaEvo]

i myself like the M5 more of a usable car but the M3 is a great car too not much of a family car though. but at least with the M5 and M3 you will never have many family members driving it.

[gobs3z]

I agree with everso. They're both great cars, but i've never heard anything bad going wrong with M5's, and there is not nearly as many M5's as M3's. Do you still want to drive stick all the time or do want to try out some F1 paddle shifting?
?

[styla21]

I voted the M5 for the four doors - seeing you have a family. Good luck in your choice :)

[ZfrkS62]

i don't think he'll be able to get an M5 for that price range. the M3 is closer to what he wants to pay.

[papaSMURF]

youd be surprized what you can get if you know the right people, and look in the right places...

as for the choice, please go with the m5, it was the last bmw m car to have a decent engine development plan which results in almost no costs later on. A family member of mine had both at a point but liked the m5 because it is the ultimate highway car. the m3 is better for lower speeds, but a tad unstable at high speeds (130+). the m5 u can modify and have fun with, plus by the time you get it, it will already have taken its hit because of the new m5/ 5 series. if you got an m3, by next year price would go down even more which would greatly affect the resale value.

happy hunting.

[ZfrkS62]

the m3 is better for lower speeds, but a tad unstable at high speeds (130+).


i'll have to disagree with you on that. i've had one at about 140 and it felt just as stable as it did at 90. and the only issue with the S54 engine has been the conrod bearings that came from the manufactuerer as faulty, but that's being taken care of with a recall to replace the bearings.

if he can get teh M5, more power to him (literally :mrgreen: )

[DUNKiNUTS]

M5 its like driving a speed boat ;)

[CSedl87]

There are many good subs for that price range (well sort of). You've got the Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe, Subaru Legacy (really good car IMHO), Audi A4, BMW 3-series (can get the Audi and 3er for cheap used). They're not going to be the rockets that the M3/5 are, but are more 'practical' than the latter. I must say good luck getting a 2003-04 M5 for your price range, though. Most of those years are still in the low to mid $50k's, the M3 you can find for a decent price. My best advice is go out and drive every car that strikes your fancy, or even the ones that don', cause sometimes you'll be pretty surprised.

[papaSMURF]

if you say all those problems with the s54 engine were solved then why do they continue to pour into dealers for spun bearings? as of 2 months ago... it doesnt take 3 years to fix a problem does it?

go ahead, drive an m5 and an m3 on the same road, at speed, what happens? the m5 is somehow more stable at the elevated speed... wow a shocker..

m3 is MUCH better at low speeds than the m5 is because of mass etc.

[ZfrkS62]

if you say all those problems with the s54 engine were solved then why do they continue to pour into dealers for spun bearings? as of 2 months ago... it doesnt take 3 years to fix a problem does it?


i said it's BEING taken care of. not has BEEN taken care of. The problem with the bearings was that because they weren't manufactured to the right standards, they prematurely wore out. And yes it can take 3 years to fix a problem. there are still first gen M60 V8s that are being replaced under warranty because the notification letter was either not recieved or disregarded. OR they just never made/showed up for the appointment to have the recall carried out. And i haven't seen one with a spun bearing yet, but i'm sure they are out there. so thanks for exaggerating :roll:


go ahead, drive an m5 and an m3 on the same road, at speed, what happens? the m5 is somehow more stable at the elevated speed... wow a shocker..


The M5 feels more stable because of the double pivot front suspension that controls the deflection in the front end. The Servotronic helps out alot with the 5 by controlling the amount of steering effort you have to put in at high speeds. The 3 didn't get Servotronic :P

[skituner]

M5 e34, e39 or e60 ill take any of them

[papaSMURF]

funniest thing was when i got the car, the salesman told me the problem with early production m3's were fixed (delayed shipment), but as you state thats not true, which i find hard to believe... hmm leme think hard for a second. a company devoted to engine development and attempting to make the ultimate driving machine is having problems with their best production engine prematurly failing. now if i was the head of pr for that company what would i blame that on? of course!!! someone else! I believed bmw to be on top of QC, but as you say this isnt true.. hmm.. looks pretty bad for bmw...

another classic example is of ford's suv's and the whole tire thing.

as for the handling, i never said anything about the steering feel at high speeds, just that its more stable. ill give another example. my 540 felt more STABLE at 120 than my rx7 did, eventhough the rx7 was nuts at 165 and could handle better than most other cars ive driven, the 5 was still more STABLE.

i know youre attempting to defend a car you idolize, and probablly have researched for years (much more than me of course), honestly i feel bad keep comming up with reports and press releases as to why something goes wrong, but deep down youll have to admit BMW screwed up on the i-6's development in some ways... i know, it sucks, theyll fix it eventually..

[ZfrkS62]

check my profile and you'll understand why i seem to know so much about these cars.

BMW didn't discover the problem right away. they had to do extensive tests on warranty bearings before they realized what had happend. as soon as they did, they issued the recall. the last one we got in for the recall was an '02. It can take a little time before BMW can get the owners notified of a recall.


The connecting rod bearings installed in M3 coupe/convertible vehicles produced from February 2001 through May 2003 were not manufactured to BMW quality standards. As a result, the connecting rod bearings are susceptible to overheating and subsequent premature failure if vehicles are driven at higher engine speeds over an extended timeframe. This condition will cause a total engine failure.


thats from the S.I. #11 04 04. Not everything is going to be perfect when it is man made.

and salesmen don't know shit about these cars. i can't tell you how many times i've called them on bullshit.

[DMbaseball1604]

M5 hands down..I would prefer a V8( the older m5) to a 6 cylinder engine..the sound the power..plus the extra space..I think the M5 is probably the classiest and the sportiest car made..

however..if this vote was meant to include the new M5..I would question the sanity of anyone who chose the M3 especially since the older one is the only one that currently exists...and because the new M5 is simply incredible and I cant ever see turning that car down for anything else.

[papaSMURF]

i realze that, which is why i didnt take what he said to much regard, i still bought the car without the damm test drive, thankfully the car wasn't one of the dealer cars (laguna seca on grey=ugly) i know what you do for a living (already read your profile).

from my sources, in comparason between the two cars, the m3 has many more problems and recalls, which is the basis of my argument here. The two dealers may have different views of the problems associated with the car, almost all m3's come in for an engine related problem. I know for a fact the amount of m3's sold in that area far exceeds many other dealers in the nation now (unfortunate), and many people who purchase the m3s in that area are retards with too much money and no realization of what theyve purchased.

one observation i find interesting from all dealers ive dealt with (BMW) VERY few techs actually drive a bmw, and if so its an earlier model like an e30 or something. As for my friend who works in the same position as you, he has never had intention of buying a bmw, instead he modifies pontiacs....

From what youve shown to everyone, the s54 engine was unfortunatlly not built to the standards people believed it to be, thus in my mind making it inferior in quality to the m5's engine (even if it is more advanced), so i thank you for futher proving my point.

From other people i know who own a bmw with the s54 engine in it (roadster, coupe, smg m3's etc), all have actually blown the engine at least once, that really shows a lot for the ultimate driving machine.

as for my relitive who had both, her m5 never had a problem in 35k miles, but her m3 did many times.

obviously we are on different sides of the spectrum here, i'm a consumer of this supposedlly wonderful product, and you unfortunatlly have to fix them. ( i was never sent the recall either)

[ZfrkS62]

The main issue that recalls deal with is programming. And you may not have gotten the recall notification yet if you bought it used, have moved since buying it, or the car doesn't fall in the VIN range.

What does it matter if the techs don't drive a BMW? i wasn't aware that there were any laws that required us to drive the car we work on :P
i think you may over estimate the amount of money that most of us earn.


I know for a fact the amount of m3's sold in that area far exceeds many other dealers in the nation now (unfortunate), and many people who purchase the m3s in that area are retards with too much money and no realization of what theyve purchased.


and what "facts" are these? none of the people who own M3's in Lafayette are idiots, and they all know what they have. i'm starting to smell a large bull pasture coming from your general direction.


From what youve shown to everyone, the s54 engine was unfortunatlly not built to the standards people believed it to be,


because one part of the engine turned out to be substandard the S54 is shit? i think not. Had the engine been plagued with the mechanical issues of say a 98-00 Chevy Malibu, then i would agree with you.


i still bought the car


pics or STFU. for now i'm thinking you're full of it. until i see pics, you are.

[SilviaEvo]

i realze that, which is why i didnt take what he said to much regard, i still bought the car without the damm test drive, thankfully the car wasn't one of the dealer cars (laguna seca on grey=ugly) i know what you do for a living (already read your profile).

from my sources, in comparason between the two cars, the m3 has many more problems and recalls, which is the basis of my argument here. The two dealers may have different views of the problems associated with the car, almost all m3's come in for an engine related problem. I know for a fact the amount of m3's sold in that area far exceeds many other dealers in the nation now (unfortunate), and many people who purchase the m3s in that area are retards with too much money and no realization of what theyve purchased.

one observation i find interesting from all dealers ive dealt with (BMW) VERY few techs actually drive a bmw, and if so its an earlier model like an e30 or something. As for my friend who works in the same position as you, he has never had intention of buying a bmw, instead he modifies pontiacs....

From what youve shown to everyone, the s54 engine was unfortunatlly not built to the standards people believed it to be, thus in my mind making it inferior in quality to the m5's engine (even if it is more advanced), so i thank you for futher proving my point.

From other people i know who own a bmw with the s54 engine in it (roadster, coupe, smg m3's etc), all have actually blown the engine at least once, that really shows a lot for the ultimate driving machine.

as for my relitive who had both, her m5 never had a problem in 35k miles, but her m3 did many times.

obviously we are on different sides of the spectrum here, i'm a consumer of this supposedlly wonderful product, and you unfortunatlly have to fix them. ( i was never sent the recall either)
Man you are blind Laguna Seca Blue is such a nice color. it is so mellow and relaxed but i believe ZfrkS62 he is a master at BMW's and pics or STFU it is a good rule on the forum or else you are full of shit!

cheers :D

[ZfrkS62]

thanks Silvia, i was wondering if anyone else was going to get on this one :D

[GT-R_R34]

i guess M5. since most that voted for the M5 was the family issue. is a logical choice. make family trips then when you're alone you have a sport saloon.

[gobs3z]

Man you are blind Laguna Seca Blue is such a nice color. it is so mellow and relaxed but i believe ZfrkS62 he is a master at BMW's and pics or STFU it is a good rule on the forum or else you are full of shit!

cheers

You misunderstood, he loves the Leguna Seca blue but dislikes the combination with grey. You guys need to learn to believe someone every once in awhile without visual proof, he obviously knows about the car, not exactly pulling shit out of his ass.

[ZfrkS62]

i believed him up until the point that he was complaining of these so called engine problems yet still had the car. It also occurs to me that he has not complained of having these issues himself, just people he supposedly knows.

if he is so worried about it, maybe he should just get a used E39 M5.

[styla21]

This is the only topic that has made me angry on JW.. :x far out... oohhhh *waves fist.
There has always been a rule - for everybody, to show proof of a car if claiming ownership. Secondly, i can't stand people who prolong a debate, manipulate and mis-construe what people say, and then make wild statements as some sort of way to back-up their already flawed arguement. I believe there is both a set of rules, and guidelines on how to go about things in this forum, and it is most definately pulling a cart before a horse to claim to own something before posting pics. I am not calling you a liar; lets just follow protocol.
:)

edit: sorry for this thread being Jacked WRX - good luck in choosing a car. :)

[ae86_16v]

Could you get an M5 for that price? I thought it was a bit more.

Anyways, M5 for usability, family, and class.

M3 isn't bad, but it is definitely not exclusive. And if you have a family you might want a bigger car.

Both are awesome cars though.

Buy the best example that your money could buy. As with a lot of things in life, it is all about the timing.

[blah]

Look very very hard. You will find that M5 in the rough. Get the M5, and then maybe next year. DINAN package.

[papaSMURF]

in all fairness i did have my fair share of problems with the car, i blew out the rear end in the first week, the hid ballasts went bad 3 seperate times, and the rear tail light broke. When i got the car it had 500 miles on it and this was the only way to buy an m3 that wasnt a dealer car without waiting a year or something for it. One major reason why i bought the car was because they had sold out of the e39m5 in the combination i wanted, and magically i found an m3 i liked. (laguna seca blue over black leather)

as one may see in my sig, i do not own the car anymore, or claim to, as my projects have shifted a bit, but i would be able to provide the m3's key and possibly information from the original purchase of the vehicle. but sorry i cant take pictures at this point.

as for my statement about bmw techs and how much they make, i was basing it off of how much techs here make, and they do make enough to drive bmws if they choose, it was a statement about if they could drive anything many chose not to drive a bmw.

i dont mean to anger anyone with the comments i make, but im attempting to show my side of things, that the awesome m3 isn't so awesome. The engine is designed better than almost anything out there, and i loved the electronic gismos the car came with (limiter on startup etc). Compared to 90% of other engines out there id choose the i6, even if it had problems that havnt been fixed.

as for the m3 owners here, they are probablly much different from the ones you have, here theyre 16 yr old girls, whose daddy drives a lambo, or a 17yr old who has 5 other cars etc. They do not care what theyre driving for the most part, as long as its new and cool, with a warrenty. Most treat them badly as well.

all i wished for someone to understand was that the m3 isnt as great as they claim, and eventhough not as advanced as the m3, i still find the m5 to be the better all around car. no need for heated debates etc

[dingo]

....as for the m3 owners here, they are probablly much different from the ones you have, here theyre 16 yr old girls, whose daddy drives a lambo, or a 17yr old who has 5 other cars etc. They do not care what theyre driving for the most part, as long as its new and cool, with a warrenty. Most treat them badly as well....

so you would be in one of those groups, being a 17yo with an M3? :wink:

[TT]

This is the only topic that has made me angry on JW.. :x far out... oohhhh *waves fist.
There has always been a rule - for everybody, to show proof of a car if claiming ownership. Secondly, i can't stand people who prolong a debate, manipulate and mis-construe what people say, and then make wild statements as some sort of way to back-up their already flawed arguement. I believe there is both a set of rules, and guidelines on how to go about things in this forum, and it is most definately pulling a cart before a horse to claim to own something before posting pics. I am not calling you a liar; lets just follow protocol.
:)

edit: sorry for this thread being Jacked WRX - good luck in choosing a car. :)

Fair point.. I know it would be impossible to discuss about cars if admins steps out and request pics before the discussion can go on, but I am with styla on this one.. to read impressions about a car but not seeing pics (custom + regular pics ;)) feels just wrong... we are probably the only forum enforcing this rule so much, I know it, but such method was never proved to be the wrong one so far :) and we'd rather have less discussions about personal experience, but at least be 90% sure it is not bullshit than having tons of them we can't verify..
So well... pics or STFU, papa ;)

[ZfrkS62]

i blew out the rear end in the first week,


that takes skill. you're the first person i've ever heard of to destroy the diff in an M3. Congratulations on being as smart as your friend that put the G35 into the ditch :roll:


as for the m3 owners here, they are probablly much different from the ones you have, here theyre 16 yr old girls, whose daddy drives a lambo, or a 17yr old who has 5 other cars etc. They do not care what theyre driving for the most part, as long as its new and cool, with a warrenty. Most treat them badly as well.


hmm..and yet earlier you wrote:


I know for a fact the amount of m3's sold in that area far exceeds many other dealers in the nation now (unfortunate), and many people who purchase the m3s in that area are retards with too much money and no realization of what theyve purchased.


i'm sensing you have a relation to John Kerry.. :P


obviously we are on different sides of the spectrum here, i'm a consumer of this supposedlly wonderful product, and you unfortunatlly have to fix them


you've already gotten off on the wrong foot with me by insulting my career. Its sniveling spoiled little brats like you that i despise. You don't have the money for an M3, your parents do. And like Dingo said, you must be one of those 17yo girls that gets everything she wants from daddy. The fact that you supposedly destroyed the differential in the car just proves that you dont care about what you have just as long as it has a warranty.
Your escapades with your little buddy's G35 have proven that you aren't too intelligent. Why were you driving it hard enough to spin in the first place if your pal was drunk in the passenger seat? were you trying to make him stain the interior?


From other people i know who own a bmw with the s54 engine in it (roadster, coupe, smg m3's etc), all have actually blown the engine at least once, that really shows a lot for the ultimate driving machine.


i doubt you know that many people :roll: It must have been you that blew the engine by missing your 5-4 downshift and going 5-3 and dumping the clutch. BMW probably saw the overrev from the fault code print out and said they weren't going to warranty the engine, so you convieniently traded it in. :P And daddy probably put the down payment on your next car too huh?

[papaSMURF]

not exactly there, my statement about the two sides between you and i were not in regards to income or anything like that, simply that i view the car in a differnt light than you do, im not about to personally attack someone based on their career choice because everyone does what theyre good at and for a reason. I will admit some of my friends are not so smart and some choices i have made in the past were not so smart; but i was taught people do learn from their mistakes. The reason the rear diff blew in the m3 was because of me being an idiot, i admit, i was doing a burnout in traffic (not ovverrevving), and the rear end hit a large disturbance in the road and the rear end shuttered and broke (sharp grinding noise in the rear end). i knew of the capabilities of data logging and such that it was best to tell the truth, so i did and they warrentied the rear end. (flat out told him i did a burnout). I did not blow the engine or anything liek that though, my statements on other people were true, there are a lot of people i do know who have had problems with the s54. i think its funny that you find it hard to believe that someone my age knows people with these cars, and you believe that someone would be dumb enough to make up all these wild claims just to impress someone online they dont know, how low do you believe the world really is? I paid 50% for my car up to the time i had the m3, and every car after i paid for on my own (the latest is my 8th car), so no, my poor daddy didnt help me whatsoever, he told me to get a job, so i did.
there is some truth to the point where i didnt care as long as i had the warrenty, theyre great i admit, and now that all my cars dont have them, i wish they did, bill get very high very quickly.
The girl im refferring to is the definition of a spoiled person whos from my area, but a little to the extreme, her daddy is in a war for the best car with his brother (my friends dad) and bought almost every desirable car he could to overtake his brother, in which i believe he failed. she does not care at all about the car, and it is her daily driver. The m3 was bought for myself because of an accident i was in before with the 5series that was caused by someone sideswiping the car and doing great damage to it and everyone in it (she ran too), so dont suddenly think people get things because theyre privledged and that i dont appreciate or realize what i've had in life. people have different views in life on many things, and have different goals and abilities, it just so happens that i had the ability that many dont at that age. I do not feel like arguing over this to the end, because i dont know you, i have nothing against you, and i have nothing to prove to you that i wouldnt have to go out of my way for (if i provided pictures of the car, recipts etc it would take me a couple weeks untill im back home etc, kinda waste of time), so believe what you wish about me, i really dont care, and for those of you who do know me, you know the truth to the argument.

btw, i voted BUSH

[gobs3z]

He's telling the truth because i know him, but i would need pics to prove that i know him wouldn't I? Darnit!!!

[ZfrkS62]

yes, you would need pics, otherwise papaSMURF may just be your alter ego :P :wink:

[gobs3z]

yes, you would need pics, otherwise papaSMURF may just be your alter ego

I can live with that, he seems to know more than me about BMW's. :P I hate admitting that, dammit! Sh** happens.

[papaSMURF]

actually the name stemmed from laguna seca blue, was the name of the car, and has been mine sense.

do you need proof to a point that someone young may actually have had a decent car? if so, you'll have to wait a little while. for right now i can only take pics of my lincoln, or scan pics of my mazda in pieces. or show u pics of the 5 series etc.

[gobs3z]

Or do i mean i no more about me than BMW's? haha :lol:

[ZfrkS62]

do you need proof to a point that someone young may actually have had a decent car? if so, you'll have to wait a little while. for right now i can only take pics of my lincoln, or scan pics of my mazda in pieces. or show u pics of the 5 series etc.



there have been alot of bullshitters that have come through here. if you mosey over to the what you drive or ride section and read the sticky, all should be clear :)

[papaSMURF]

yeah i have, i find it hard to believe honestly, i understand the meaning behind it, and i know the rules here are a bit different from other forums ive been part of.

i know i can produce the key to the car easily n all, but honestly going any further is hard seeing im in school a bit far away from home. the pics are floating around though, just need to get them from the correct people (have pic of a demoed oldschool m5 that tried to race me but rear suspension supposedlly gave out, eventhough i doubt it, but shows my car n all, and me etc) im sure theres movies people have taken, but when people ask me to produce proof of something i had a few years back, its hard, its like me asking you to give me full documentation of the first car you had.

[dingo]

well then lets just end the debate here.....you have no proof and we won't budge. :wink: In future maybe just don't mention the M3 or M5 and talk about only what you can prove....like your current car. :D

[sikx5]

Im not going to read that whole debate. :shock:

But id go for the M5 dude, that way you can scare the shit through your whole family :wink:

[OVERLORD_CHRIS]

Go with M5 more power and more room, and people don't expect such performence from a large mid size sedan. And it better for the family, kids can brag about what there dad drives.

[LotusGT1]

I'd buy an M Coupe and some decent sedan.

[WRX]

Thanks for all the replies. When the times right I think I'll try to find a nice M5. Seems like it would be the best choice.

[fireguy]

M5 has more appeal to me.......M3's are so common where I live whereas M5's are still pretty rare plus from a highway roll, an M5 would be the weapon of choice!

[thekillingroad]

just my choice order...

1. E46 M3 CSL
2. E36 M3 EvoII
3. E39 M5
4. E46 M3
5. E60 M5