New lap record Nordschleife! Carrera GT of the no. 1 spot!

[htfaber]

I read this on a Dutch site, but here is the translation:

"Dutch carmanufacturer Donkervoort has suceeded in attempting to get the absolute record for productioncars on the nordschleife. With a Donkervoort D8 270RS, equipped with a 350 bhp engine Michael Düchtung managed to lap the 22 kilometer Nordschleife in 7 minutes and 18,1 seconds. That's an improvement of 14 seconds of the old record, which was set two months ago by a Porsche Carrera GT."

The Radical SR3 managed to get a laptime of 7 minutes and 19 seconds so it has even beaten that one as well!

Previous recordholders
1995: Gemballa Turbo: 7 min 52 sec
1999: shack Porsche Turbo 7.46
2001: techart GT 7.43
2001: Gemballa GTR60 7.32,52
2004: Porsche Carrera GT 7.32,44


For those outside Holland who have never heard of Donkervoort. It's a small carmanufacturer who makes Super 7-like cars with Audi engines. Because they are really light they go like nothing and are great fun to drive! For more information check out their website at http://www.donkervoort.nl/

Normal car.
http://img122.exs.cx/img122/2117/driekwart-voren.jpg

Nordschleife.
http://img122.exs.cx/img122/3952/Nordschleife-DonkervoortD8270RSjump.jpg

http://img122.exs.cx/img122/3489/Nordschleife-DonkervoortD8270RS.jpg

[jon_s]

The thing is fucking flying! :shock:

[Schwalbe]

Previous recordholders
1995: Gemballa Turbo: 7 min 52 sec
1999: shack Porsche Turbo 7.46
2001: techart GT 7.43
2001: Gemballa GTR60 7.32,52
2004: Porsche Carrera GT 7.32,44


I see a very beautiful domination by Porsche AG on Nordschleife. Surely that a tuned Carrera GT could regain its first position. For my part I regard the Radical SR3 and the Donkervoort D8 270RS as a racing cars "go-kart", not a production car.

[Schwalbe]

I see a very beautiful domination by Porsche AG on Nordschleife.

Nürburgring is the Fiorano track for the Porsches... if Ferrari tested their cars in that circuit... some Ferraris would have been in that (short) list.

Thanks dani_d_mas for your rational explanation. Because that's true that some Ferrari which could be very well on the top of the list : The mighty Enzo is the best example!

[yg60m]

Not really a production car ...

[fireguy]

i agree with schwalbe......these cars are souped up go-karts.......imo the CGT is still the fastest "real" car on the 'ring.

[Gnome]

Production car??? :?

Good comment, dani_d_mas. It doesn't look quite like the standard car. Still, it's an amazing time!

[bmwmpower]

Radical has weapon for this- its 360 hp radical,old SR3 has 270 hp,
so this can beat 7:18,

[CSedl87]

has the Enzo run the Ring officially? I can't imagine the CGT running a better time than the Enzo ;)
Actually the GT would run a better time than the Enzo, though nothing more than 2 Seconds. The GT has more Aero (good for turns) and also has a lower COG (also good for turns). I'd actually be surprised if the Enzo ran a better time.

[chest3r]

That is a very good lap time but, like everybody said, that's not a production car.

I don't remember seeing any Donkervoort with that huge rear wing :P

I'm not surprised of seeing the CGT beeing the fastest around the Ring. Even beating the Enzo. It's a German car! A big part of the tests should have been done there. 8)

[rachaderua]

GOD!!!

that was an awesome lap time, for a production car. As i could see this model that got the nordschleife record has a more powerful engine than the models for sale. But anyway its great, well, 14 seconds under the Carrera GT seems to be insane. I believe and i am still in favour of lightness contrariwise of great power and too much weight. And this car goes all with my preferences. Great car. Congrats for Donkervoort

[1zippo1]

Radical has weapon for this- its 360 hp radical,old SR3 has 270 hp,
so this can beat 7:18,

Actually, it wasn't the normal SR3 that did the 7:19 lap, it was an SR3 Turbo, so kind of a in house tuned version of the SR3.

[htfaber]

I agree on you guys that it's hardly a production car, but to snap out 14 seconds of a Carrera GT's time is a mindblowing performance!

And for the Enzo, I do think it will be quicker in total with the long straits, so in the end it will probably be the faster car. But will please someone take a lap on the Nordschleife with an Enzo...!?

Perhaps our American friend...then you can try them against the F50 and the Vanquish...that will be nice!

[mrzonda]

in the most recent evo, in the article with the zondas, horacio pagani says he's gonna take a shot at the record with a revised zonda... the 7:44 time that the zonda set before was in the rain. horacio thinks that dry running will be good for 7 seconds, and he's hoping the rest of the time will come from the revisions.

[DUNKiNUTS]

Just have Ferrari make a Ring edition of the Enzo and just set the record once and for all.

[dons5]

umm ur wrong, Enzo has better aero/downforce then CGT

[blah]

has the Enzo run the Ring officially? I can't imagine the CGT running a better time than the Enzo ;)

Yea because we all know ferraris never break down either. Nothing is allowed to beat a ferrari :roll: You gotta love the PCGT.

[DUNKiNUTS]

^^^ i am disapointed in the Enzo, If you name a car after you founder of your company you need to have no budget and use limitless tech. I believe Topgear said the body of the car or frame or something on the car was able to hit 250+. So what not show your pride and make it! Come on Ferrari. But same goes with the PCGT too.

[dons5]

umm i was talkin about aero, not reliability

[DUNKiNUTS]

umm i was talkin about aero, not reliability

Aero, reliability its all there, the two companies held back in showing what they can do. period. :|

[dons5]

of course, but all im trying to say is that someone said the cgt has better aero then Enzo which I highly doubt

[bmwmpower]

Radical has weapon for this- its 360 hp radical,old SR3 has 270 hp,
so this can beat 7:18,

Actually, it wasn't the normal SR3 that did the 7:19 lap, it was an SR3 Turbo, so kind of a in house tuned version of the SR3.
i now,it was turbo,but from factory tuned and normally selled

[davide]

Nice gokart...

[adamk24]

The only thing I find hard to believe about this is that someone hadnt tried to do a lap in one of those factory spit and kleenex track dogs before. If I had known they accept cars like this as being "factory" I would have done it a long time ago.... (ok maybe not but it looks good on paper...) :wink:

[TeflonTron]

Anybody know if Lamborghini have run anything on the Nurbergring, or the nordshief? If so, what were the times? I'd like to know how the Gemballa tuned Diablo, with 850BHP, 900ft/lbs or torque, 4wd, 0-100 in 5.8 and a top speed of 255mph it would have been pretty fast, I'm guessing.

[mrpushrod]

I too think that this Donkervoort is a production car in the loosest possible sense however it is still an impressive achievement. Manufacturers such as Radical and Donkervoort have a fraction of the budget of Porsche or Ferrari yet still manage times as fast if not faster. Saying that, what would happen if Modena or Stuttgart designed to produce something like this?

[pagani]

And the loaded bmw m3 csl is also faster round the ring whit laptime of 7.30 min for the full ring!!
Porsche are to damm slow!!
Please check my topic and the topic on rennteam.
http://www.loaded.se/gfx/big_imgs/1024x768_big094621.jpg
:arrow: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=59170&an=0&page=0#59170
:arrow: http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14107&start=20
8) :)

[blah]

And the loaded bmw m3 csl is also faster round the ring whit laptime of 7.30 min for the full ring!!
Porsche are to damm slow!!
Please check my topic and the topic on rennteam.
http://www.loaded.se/gfx/big_imgs/1024x768_big094621.jpg
:arrow: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=59170&an=0&page=0#59170
:arrow: http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14107&start=20
8) :)

so your saying because a modded CSL can run an unconfirmed time, porsches suck?

[mv]

can't wait to see how the uprated zonda will do as it is aimed to beat the CGT

[pagani]

Yep maby it's faster than 7,30 min round the ring.
Porsche's are to slow and cost to much money and are overated.
:o :)

[mindgam3]

of course, but all im trying to say is that someone said the cgt has better aero then Enzo which I highly doubt

and on what evidence are you basing this arguement? :roll:

[CSedl87]

umm ur wrong, Enzo has better aero/downforce then CGT
Actually you're wrong. I've talked to people in Porsche, and I've read about people from Ferrari actually coming out and saying they took several lbs of downforce off for a better top speed. You can't have top speed and high cornering force, you can have a mix of both, or more of one than the other, but never both at the same time. Do some simple research, bud, not personal opinion.

*edit*
Also I believe it was Auto Motor und Sport, who did a test on lbs of down force, top speed, etc. Don't hold me accountable for who did the test though, but I know it's out there.

[dons5]

its a fact that the Enzo has more downforce then the Porsche you guys need to do you research, ive read it all over the place

[Toronto]

didn't they say in the new GIS, that the AC m3 CSL can lap the car at the same time as the CGT?

woop's edit*** that is the modded m3,

anyways just about any car with so many mods can run those times.

[dons5]

Downforce:
343 lbs. @ 150 mph, with 459 lbs. drag
493 lbs. @ 180 mph, with 660 lbs. drag
640 lbs. @ 205 mph, with 857 lbs. drag
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerodatabaseporschecarreragt04.html

im sure theres more but im lazy right now, oh ya and even if they have the same or the cgt a lil more, the Enzo has achieved that downforce without the use of an ugly and especially disgraceful rear wing like that. The car looks very very nice when its down, but when its up it wrecks the car i cant believe porsche did that, but then again just about all their cars got ugly ricer wings on the rear so im not too surprised. Yes the wings help, but the totally ruin the beauty of the car.

[JoeHahn]

I dont see how a wing can be claimed 'ricer' when it is used for a purpose. No Porsche wings are over the top and do serve a purpose. I'd rather live with a Turbo that is stable at speed with a 'ricer' wing than living with a 360 which has no wing but a hell of a lot less stable.

[dons5]

actually ive read many articles saying 911's arent stable at very high speed and that they have finally fixed this with the new 2005's. and fine stick with your huge wings since they are for porpose but dont ever think to urself geez why are Ferraris the most exotic and glamorous looking cars in the world. Cause they got proper lines, sex appeal to them, everything flows proportionatly with them. Too bad the CGT's wing raised like that or else it would be a stunning design. The Enzo was built for porpose too but they still didnt slap a huge rear wing cause Ferrari actually cares about beauty and looks. To me, I dont care how much faster another car is, you have to love what your car looks like, even if its slower, you have to look at it and fall in love with its lines. Go ahead and pick a GT3RS since its "supposedly" faster then a 360 CS, at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful).

[blah]

actually ive read many articles saying 911's arent stable at very high speed and that they have finally fixed this with the new 2005's. and fine stick with your huge wings since they are for porpose but dont ever think to urself geez why are Ferraris the most exotic and glamorous looking cars in the world. Cause they got proper lines, sex appeal to them, everything flows proportionatly with them. Too bad the CGT's wing raised like that or else it would be a stunning design. The Enzo was built for porpose too but they still didnt slap a huge rear wing cause Ferrari actually cares about beauty and looks. To me, I dont care how much faster another car is, you have to love what your car looks like, even if its slower, you have to look at it and fall in love with its lines. Go ahead and pick a GT3RS since its "supposedly" faster then a 360 CS, at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful).

Lambo Design > Ferrari Design. Lambos are just more agressive and just appeal to me. When a Lambo is runnning at top speed its just pure art. Its sex on the road. I saw a Lambo Gallardo weave through traffic, looked like a cheetah running.

[JoeHahn]

actually ive read many articles saying 911's arent stable at very high speed and that they have finally fixed this with the new 2005's. and fine stick with your huge wings since they are for porpose but dont ever think to urself geez why are Ferraris the most exotic and glamorous looking cars in the world. Cause they got proper lines, sex appeal to them, everything flows proportionatly with them. Too bad the CGT's wing raised like that or else it would be a stunning design. The Enzo was built for porpose too but they still didnt slap a huge rear wing cause Ferrari actually cares about beauty and looks. To me, I dont care how much faster another car is, you have to love what your car looks like, even if its slower, you have to look at it and fall in love with its lines. Go ahead and pick a GT3RS since its "supposedly" faster then a 360 CS, at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful).

I guess that a 360GT is just a beautiful woman formed into the shape of a dinky spoiler. I havent heard anyone say a 360 is more stable than a Porsche (with a wing), especially when you hear reports of 360's being very snappy at high speeds.Like Blah said, if you want to take it to the whole "sex on wheels" thing a Lambo beats a Ferrari hands down. But if you arent then I guess you are stuck with your lady and its 'dinky spoiler'

[LotusGT1]

Some people don't realise that the 'Ring is such an all round track a car is only capable to manage a good time whenever the basics of the car are great to begin with. So you can't really speak of a backyard-advantage.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare these purpose-built racecars to more general consumption autos. However, it is good reference those times to show just how fast these cars are going. And you have to admit, it's not like you're going for some grocery shopping in your CGT as well.

About the lap time, it sure is an impressive feat the Donkervoort went so fast, and tt beats the record by a sec over Radical SR3 Turbo. Which Phil Bennett, the ex-BTCC driver who drove the Radical to 7:19 reckon that he could beat it again with a refined setup....Radical did one hot lap with no prior preparation to do it....I wonder what the preparation of the Donkervoort team was.

[CSedl87]

actually ive read many articles saying 911's arent stable at very high speed and that they have finally fixed this with the new 2005's. and fine stick with your huge wings since they are for porpose but dont ever think to urself geez why are Ferraris the most exotic and glamorous looking cars in the world. Cause they got proper lines, sex appeal to them, everything flows proportionatly with them. Too bad the CGT's wing raised like that or else it would be a stunning design. The Enzo was built for porpose too but they still didnt slap a huge rear wing cause Ferrari actually cares about beauty and looks. To me, I dont care how much faster another car is, you have to love what your car looks like, even if its slower, you have to look at it and fall in love with its lines. Go ahead and pick a GT3RS since its "supposedly" faster then a 360 CS, at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful).
Wow you sound much younger than 19... Your statement about Porches being unstable is complete crap. We've owned a 996 Cabrio, and I've driven it at up to 130 (no pics though). Man you're dumb "ricer wings," hah! They serve a function. Porsches aero-package is much more complete than Ferraris. Why do you think they put spoilers on their race cars, not street cars. Hmm, maybe that didn't cross your mind. Why do you think a 996 GT3 MkII runs the same lap times, if not better, than the lighter, more powerful Challange Stradale? Downforce!. Now that's a concept... Now just imagine if Porsche took it to the same *extremes* Ferrari did. Porsche could easily shred 200lbs in the CGT, imagine what that'd do to Enzo. CGT> Enzo, plain and simple.
at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful Atleast I'll be laughing my ass of when I pass you. And BTW beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

[dons5]

Hey JoeHahn learn to read, i never said ill stick to my dinky spoiler, i said the Porsche has a dinky spoiler, and yes it serves purpose, but just because something serves purpose doesnt mean its not ricer. When i see souped up asian imports that are all ricer and have a proper wing on the back that creates proper downforce its still ricer whether its for porpuse or not. Man you need downforce obviosuly, but if you cant do things right and with style then dont do it at all instead of doin it with a huge spoiler and wreck the lines of the car. Like honestly the big wings look like they haver been just bolted on. They look like some guy jus came by and planted and big spoiler on the back of it. lol I always hear Porscha when talking about sports cars, but never when talking about Exotica and like what blah said sex on wheels (besides the cgt obviosuly) thats for Ferraris Zondas Lambos to a certain extent Astons and cars like that

[mindgam3]

actually ive read many articles saying 911's arent stable at very high speed and that they have finally fixed this with the new 2005's. and fine stick with your huge wings since they are for porpose but dont ever think to urself geez why are Ferraris the most exotic and glamorous looking cars in the world. Cause they got proper lines, sex appeal to them, everything flows proportionatly with them. Too bad the CGT's wing raised like that or else it would be a stunning design. The Enzo was built for porpose too but they still didnt slap a huge rear wing cause Ferrari actually cares about beauty and looks. To me, I dont care how much faster another car is, you have to love what your car looks like, even if its slower, you have to look at it and fall in love with its lines. Go ahead and pick a GT3RS since its "supposedly" faster then a 360 CS, at least when i look at my Ferrari i see a beautiful woman formed into the shape of an automobile, instead of a super souped up beetle with a dinky spoiler in the back (yes i know its porposeful).

So a 911 or CGT wing spoils its lines, but a Enzo's, F40's and F50's wings dont just because they're ferrari? :roll:

[dons5]

oh ya and your 996 cabrio was stable at 130? obviosuly, im talking much higher speeds then 130, of course a top end Sports car will be stable at a measly 130, and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the beholders eye must be pretty fucked up if he thinks a narrow super souped up beetle with a big spoiler planted in the back is more beautiful then the super sexy and proportional body of a Ferrari that just screams sex and exotica with its stunning curves and lines. And do you think i care if you pass me, (which ypu probably wont andyways), unless these cars serve no purpose what so ever other then to be full on race cars and nothing else then i dont care if another car can do 0 - 200 in a second or 2 less or can corner at 0.01 more of a G. lol

[dons5]

umm no they dont, if you look at the car the spoiler is built into the body like one peice and its all like one look, and the Enzo? umm sure...... it just has a huge spoiler on its car omg i think its bigger then a Mitsu Evo.

[mindgam3]

umm no they dont, if you look at the car the spoiler is built into the body like one peice and its all like one look, and the Enzo? umm sure...... it just has a huge spoiler on its car omg i think its bigger then a Mitsu Evo.

Well the 911's rear wing is hardly huge... and how do you class "built into the body".... the enzo's, CGT's and 911's are all retractable wings that operate when more downforce is needed.... You're not likely to be viewing any of them with their spoilers raised either as they'll most likely be flying past you

Its all a matter of opinion but your being slightly hypocritical and biased towards the prancing horse....

[dons5]

im not being biased, like of course Porsches are good, i just cant stand the way the company thinks and stuff like that, like to make so many units a year, and to even make an SUV, and to a lesser extent the boxer, like i even heard many true Porsche Enthusiasts were pissed about them makin an SUV. Not everything is about performance and well at least ill blow by you, theres things like sentimental value, and passion, history, and stuff like that. Now i know your gonna start saying well Porsche has a history too and all that stuff and of course they do but its jus a point im trying to make like it applies to the looks of the cars too.

And about the F50 and F40 if you look at the car the wing in the back is one peice witht he rest of the shell like its all one mould or whatever you call it, it all flows together and makes the car look like one. And the cgt omg i wish the spoiler never came up cause its such a beautiful design with it down. Of course u need it for optimal performance and i understand that, but when i see pics of it with it up, or people that have it up when its not even moving!! then that is irritating to say the least. and the GT3 RS look at all that stuff in the back, couldnt they have implemented some sort of design as part of the body and made it look alot more clenaed up flowing neat etc. or did they have to slap on that indy car/ F1 style wing on the back, and coloured wheels?? and writing on the side of the car? common im disapointed i thought Porsche had way more class then that, when i think of cars with there own model name writtin in huge writing across the car i think of Mustangs and Imports with stickers, not a Porsche.

[mindgam3]

and writing on the side of the car? common im disapointed i though Porsche had way more class then that, when i think of cars with there own model name writtin up on it i think of Mustangs and Imports with stickers, not a Porsche.

the writing is based on the original, made in 1973.... way before tuning became mainstream.....

as for the rear wing you're kinda disproving your yourself.... you say the F40 and F50 look better because their wings are integrated into the body work..... but then the enzo has the same mechnism as the CGT and 911 yet according to you it's better looking because of it but the porsche's aren't.....

[CSedl87]

im not being biased, like of course Porsches are good, i just cant stand the way the company thinks and stuff like that, like to make so many units a year, and to even make an SUV, and to a lesser extent the boxer, like i even heard many true Porsche Enthusiasts were pissed about them makin an SUV. Not everything is about performance and well at least ill blow by you, theres things like sentimental value, and passion, history, and stuff like that. Now i know your gonna start saying well Porsche has a history too and all that stuff and of course they do but its jus a point im trying to make like it applies to the looks of the cars too.

And about the F50 and F40 if you look at the car the wing in the back is one peice witht he rest of the shell like its all one mould or whatever you call it, it all flows together and makes the car look like one. And the cgt omg i wish the spoiler never came up cause its such a beautiful design with it down. Of course u need it for optimal performance and i understand that, but when i see pics of it with it up, or people that have it up when its not even moving!! then that is irritating to say the least. and the GT3 RS look at all that stuff in the back, couldnt they have implemented some sort of design as part of the body and made it look alot more clenaed up flowing neat etc. or did they have to slap on that indy car/ F1 style wing on the back, and coloured wheels?? and writing on the side of the car? common im disapointed i thought Porsche had way more class then that, when i think of cars with there own model name writtin in huge writing across the car i think of Mustangs and Imports with stickers, not a Porsche.
Let me tell you little thing about making cars, when you don't sell you don't make money, when you don't make money you have to start cutting back on racing and 'extracurricular' activities. Now when your stuff does sell, that means you make money, and that means you can go have some fun, aka racing. Now, not too many companies can make money on a low volume production car, Porsche being one of them. Now enters the Cayenne. Because of the Cayenne, Porsche can do that stuff. Also it kinda takes the stress off of the 911 of being more of a GT than sports car. Ditto with the Boxster. Porsche made cars to drive (and yes you can DRIVE a Cayenne, trust me), not jack off at them like you do, hence the reason for spoilers. God, don't even start on the RS. That car for one would rape the CS, the regular GT3 keeps well enough ahead (btw .01gs around a corner is actually good bro, it doesn't matter if you win by 20 minutes, or a quarter of a second, winning is winning, and porsche does all they can to win). And those 'color rims and writing on the side,' well let me give you another lesson. Look up the Carrera RS. It's a salute to their past. Obviously you have a major bias against Porsche (why, b/c they keep beating Ferrari?), so please be quiet until you have an unbiased view, or if it is biased, don't be so hypocritical as to piss us all off.

[CSedl87]

and writing on the side of the car? common im disapointed i though Porsche had way more class then that, when i think of cars with there own model name writtin up on it i think of Mustangs and Imports with stickers, not a Porsche.

the writing is based on the original, made in 1973.... way before tuning became mainstream.....

as for the rear wing you're kinda disproving your yourself.... you say the F40 and F50 look better because their wings are integrated into the body work..... but then the enzo has the same mechnism as the CGT and 911 yet according to you it's better looking because of it but the porsche's aren't.....
Hey mindgam, it's obvious this person doesn't know crap about cars, and his balls not dropped yet... it's useless to argue with underage trolls.

[JoeHahn]

and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the beholders eye must be pretty fucked up if he thinks a narrow super souped up beetle with a big spoiler planted in the back is more beautiful then the super sexy and proportional body of a Ferrari that just screams sex and exotica with its stunning curves and lines

:lol:
OK, I guess having a civilised argument with you is out of the question. That piece of writing quoted would definately not be out of place at supercars.net, Im guessing you evolved from there, yes?

[dons5]

lol i am not contradicting myself, look at the cgt wing when raised and look at the Enzos lol huuuuge difference, if the cgt's spoiler always stayed down but the "angle of attack" just slightly changed then it would be the same as an Enzo, but the cgt doesnt do that instead this huge thing raises up with the poles commin down each side like an F1 wing from i think it was the late 60's early 70's when they had those huuge wings for a year or 2 before they were banned. And now im not stupid about cars and i aint a lil kid

[CSedl87]

And now im not stupid about cars and i aint a lil kidHaha that sentence sums it all up. BTW the angle of attack method as you claim is on the Enzo, produces a shit load of drag. The reason why the CGT's goes up is because that's where undisturbed air is. Better airflow over a wing, or car = better downforce. And yes you are contradicting your self abit. Let me ask you this, why do you think the Ferrari Challenge cars have spoilers? Well, a little thing called downforce. Porsche is simply appyling what they learned on track, and putting it on their road cars.

[dons5]

[quote="CSedl87"][quote="dons5"]Let me ask you this, why do you think the Ferrari Challenge cars have spoilers? Well, a little thing called downforce.quote]

The 360 Challenge cars dont have a rear wing, the 355's do though. Second I think you may be misunderstanding me, of course a spoiler adds downforce and a 360 would have more downforce if it had a spoiler in the back your 100% right about that. But im just saying that the way Porsche does it. You know like just slap a huge wing on the back, of course it adds downforce but you know the car would be much more beautiful if they incorportated some sort of smaller rear wing directly into the design of the car, instead of looking like they just made a huge wing and stuck it on the back. Sure it adds performance, but performance is not all that matters (unless its a pure race car designed for racing and only racing). If performance was all that mattered then almost every Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Jaguar, TVR etc etc would come with big wings/spoilers in the back. Now maybe you dont agree or whatever but do you at least get what im trying to say, im not asking you to agree with me, but to just try and understand where im comming from.

p.s. sorry i screwed up the quote thing

[thekillingroad]

Why making special cars for the ring...

Turn it with a stock one.. Then we'll see what happens...

(For sayin "tune the PCGT/ tune the Enzo"...."

[CSedl87]

[quote="CSedl87"][quote=dons5]Let me ask you this, why do you think the Ferrari Challenge cars have spoilers? Well, a little thing called downforce.quote]

The 360 Challenge cars dont have a rear wing, the 355's do though. Second I think you may be misunderstanding me, of course a spoiler adds downforce and a 360 would have more downforce if it had a spoiler in the back your 100% right about that. But im just saying that the way Porsche does it. You know like just slap a huge wing on the back, of course it adds downforce but you know the car would be much more beautiful if they incorportated some sort of smaller rear wing directly into the design of the car, instead of looking like they just made a huge wing and stuck it on the back. Sure it adds performance, but performance is not all that matters (unless its a pure race car designed for racing and only racing). If performance was all that mattered then almost every Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Jaguar, TVR etc etc would come with big wings/spoilers in the back. Now maybe you dont agree or whatever but do you at least get what im trying to say, im not asking you to agree with me, but to just try and understand where im comming from.

p.s. sorry i screwed up the quote thing
Actually the 360 Challange cars do come with spoilers. Porsche, being German, tend to make cars that are more function over form, and actually alot of Porsche owners take the Gt3's, Rs's, Turbo's, and Gt2's out to a track day. I'd say a good 90% of the owners of the top Carrera's are more enthusiasts than the average Porsche owner. Now saying that they just slap a spoiler on isn't true. They put it threw the windtunnel and fine tune it specifically to that car and it's total aero-package. If you look at all the companies when they go racing, what's one of the first things they do? "Slap" a spoiler on the back to keep that rear end down. The thing is you don't need it out on the road, but Porsche knows that 90% of the RS, and Gt3 owners are going to track them, and that spoiler adds a bit to a cars performance.