Quattro GmbH test the next RS6 (600bhp).

[Schwalbe]

Currently, I have only bad news for the fans of E60 M5 and E55 AMG-CLS55 AMG, because Audi claims to end the power-war. Because the next RS6 will have the V10 FSI biturbo engine with 600hp, maybe even 630 hp. Game Over !!! :twisted:

http://www.nogaroblue.com/S4/Audinews.jpg

[yg60m]

I don't believe that. Magazines always propose scoops like this one. I remember Autocar talking about a 600 V12 bhp CLS or a 550 bhp M5. The reality is different :roll:

[No.1]

I don't believe that. Magazines always propose scoops like this one. I remember Autocar talking about a 600 V12 bhp CLS or a 550 bhp M5. The reality is different :roll:

I agree. :)

Also... i doubt Audi would release an Estate car that is more powerful than the Gallardo/Murcielago, even if both are due for upgrades in the next 12 months. They just wouldn't do it. :|

[bmwmpower]

I don't believe that. Magazines always propose scoops like this one. I remember Autocar talking about a 600 V12 bhp CLS or a 550 bhp M5. The reality is different :roll:

maybe will be CLS 65 AMG like SL55 and SL65

[mindgam3]

they were going to put the V10 from the gallardo in there which is based on the 4.2 V8 from the previous RS6 but it won't fit so I doubt this very much. Not unless they've begun development of a completely new compact V10 which is highly unlikely

[bmwmpower]

Someone posted some weeks ago that Audi didn't want to continue with the power war that Mercedes-Benz and BMW were facing... that it had no sense to have a saloon with 600hp... May be I'm wrong but...

it was me, and it was from autocar too :D

[mindgam3]

thing is though, even if they do put that amount of power in, thats not why IMO, and most magazines opinion, the M5 is the better car. The current RS6 is just as quick if not quicker than the M5 in a straight line.... what they need to work on is the handling, steering, setup and weight, not more power.....

[bmwmpower]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

[mindgam3]

thing is though, even if they do put that amount of power in, thats not why IMO, and most magazines opinion, the M5 is the better car. The current RS6 is just as quick if not quicker than the M5 in a straight line.... what they need to work on is the handling, steering, setup and weight, not more power.....

not true at all. the last RS6 smoked the M5 at the Ring and was renowned for it's ability to even keep pace with supercars.

you're generalising things that simply aren't true ;)

the new M5 did 8:13, the RS6 8:20 round the ring and its well known that the M5 is the drivers car out of the quattroporte, M5, RS6 and E55 AMG....

I'm not generalising things, it's a mixture of fact, my opinion and top motor magazines.....

I'm not saying the RS6 is a bad car, i love it, but they need to work on the chassis more than producing more power......

[Ghostbat]

Currently, I have only bad news for the fans of E60 M5 and E55 AMG-CLS55 AMG, because Audi claims to end the power-war. Because the next RS6 will have the V10 FSI biturbo engine with 600hp, maybe even 630 hp. Game Over !!!


Why would that be bad news? Just means that Mercedes and BMW start making 700bhp cars later on. You are really naive if you think that raisng the bar abit will end this "war".

[Schwalbe]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

I would have a lot of fun to race an RS6 on the Nordschleife. Even Sabine Schmitz approves. :wink:

http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-321-med.jpg
http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-531-med.jpg

[Just_me]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

I would have a lot of fun to race an RS6 on the Nordschleife. Even Sabine Schmitz approves. :wink:

http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-321-med.jpg
http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-531-med.jpg

lol, the RS6 dont belong to Sabine, the rs6 belong to a swedish dude

[Vansquish]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

I would have a lot of fun to race an RS6 on the Nordschleife. Even Sabine Schmitz approves. :wink:

http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-321-med.jpg
http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-531-med.jpg

Right, but that's not an RS6, it's an RS6+

[Just_me]

If we will see a RS6 with 600hp it will almost cost like a SL65, CLS65. I doubt it will be a big sellar and only be build in small productions.

[Just_me]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

I would have a lot of fun to race an RS6 on the Nordschleife. Even Sabine Schmitz approves. :wink:

http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-321-med.jpg
http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-531-med.jpg

Right, but that's not an RS6, it's an RS6+

no its a regular RS6, the car belongs to this guy: http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=a88984c88f5f5aabcf62196df2e4f41e&threadid=5645

[Vansquish]

hmm...odd...I thought the darker exhaust tips and and other bits (trim, grille etc..) were RS6+ equipment...I could definetely be wrong though, sorry if it's a mixup :-)

[chest3r]

A V10 ?!?! :shock: :shock: Holly sh*t!! Where this goes to ??? The M5 with a V10, the RS6 with a V10...... :shock: :shock:

600bhp it's almoust the same as the Carrera GT, the Enzo and SLR..... that's a lot of power :shock:

[blah]

from what i know, these HP numbers *are* close to accurate. It will be *around* 600hp if all goes as planned.

BUT, as you all know, plans may change...we'll have to wait and see. There may also be an S6 lined up which will compete better with the M5, since this RS6 may be out of the M5s league in power AND price.

i'll let you guys know if i find out anything ;)

Dont worry AMG wil make some car to compete with the RS6 that will be so powerful it wont have gears 1-3 it will just start you in fourth. Sometimes i think maybe they should design the car so it can put the power down first, before they make the power.

[Schwalbe]

but RS6 is car without fun, not drivers car like M5
only powerfull sedan or kombi

I would have a lot of fun to race an RS6 on the Nordschleife. Even Sabine Schmitz approves. :wink:

http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-321-med.jpg
http://www.rs6.com/gallery/data/503/2Ringen-2004-531-med.jpg

lol, the RS6 dont belong to Sabine, the rs6 belong to a swedish dude

I know. The combo RS6+Sabine was an associative joke. The heart of the subject is: The current Audi RS6 is a powerful and formidable car to push to the limit... and this opinion is shared by the large majority of german car's enthusiast. You have the right to think the opposite. :wink:

[blah]

Dont worry AMG wil make some car to compete with the RS6 that will be so powerful it wont have gears 1-3 it will just start you in fourth. Sometimes i think maybe they should design the car so it can put the power down first, before they make the power.

LOL. interesting idea, man ;)

well the E65 AMG is in the works...so maybe this RS6 is targetting this. These cars aren't produced in large quantities, so they're more for "technology use" purposes and namebrand image than anything else. These days, everyone wants to be performance associated...,..

I knew a E65 wasnt far away. Probably be the cheapest of the 65 cars, until they put it in the C or the SLK, and you know the germans are crazy enough to do it.

[mindgam3]

thing is though, even if they do put that amount of power in, thats not why IMO, and most magazines opinion, the M5 is the better car. The current RS6 is just as quick if not quicker than the M5 in a straight line.... what they need to work on is the handling, steering, setup and weight, not more power.....

not true at all. the last RS6 smoked the M5 at the Ring and was renowned for it's ability to even keep pace with supercars.

you're generalising things that simply aren't true ;)

the new M5 did 8:13, the RS6 8:20 round the ring and its well known that the M5 is the drivers car out of the quattroporte, M5, RS6 and E55 AMG....

I'm not generalising things, it's a mixture of fact, my opinion and top motor magazines.....

I'm not saying the RS6 is a bad car, i love it, but they need to work on the chassis more than producing more power......

we're talking about the RS6 vs the OLD M5. The previous RS6 was designed to compete against the previous M5....and in that duel...there was NO competition. The RS6 outperformed it in every category, including track runs :D

if you wanna compare the RS6 to the *new* M5, then that's a different comparison ;)

just like if you wanna compare the *next* RS6 to this new M5, that would also be a new comparison.

why don't we just compare whats on the market now???

The E39 M5 was released in 1999, the RS6 in 02/03 and the new M5 this year, therefore the RS6 is more comparable with the E60 M5...

And as I said, theres no point just adding more power, they need to work on the chassis and handling more..... even if it is faster round tracks than the E60 M5, Audi's gonna have their work cut out to make it as responsive and as much as a driver's car as the M5....

Plus Audi will have to copmete with the M6 and M3 by the time the next generation RS's are released....

[Just_me]

[quote=mindgam3]

i do agree with the user 'just_me' when he says this is a cycle....but i feel you deny giving credit where credit is due....the handling of the RS6 is superb......it was a better handling car on the track than the M5 which is being replaced.

well, M5 E39 came earlier than RS6, it took a few years for audi to develop their RS6 and to beat the M5 and they also need more power to manage it.
I also doubt the new RS6 will be much faster than M5, maybe one or 2 seconds faster but not more. Cutting time at Nurnburing is extremly difficult since both M5 and rs6 are very heavy and the lower the time is more difficult it is. But no deny, they are both good cars, E55 cant match them.

BTW, when is audi to build a car to keep up with M3 CSL at the ring, I guess they need a extra 60-70hp to beat the car. :wink:

[Just_me]

BTW, when is audi to build a car to keep up with M3 CSL at the ring, I guess they need a extra 60-70hp to beat the car. :wink:

well, i must admit...the CSL is a phenomenon. Audi are *not* as efficient as BMW to build a car which is lightweight.....although they are now working on "all-aluminium" cars to try and bridge the gap.

the upcoming RS4 will be the best rival to the CSL, and like you say, they will use power to try and catch it. The RS4 will be 425hp...it will be quick. However quick it will be though, i'm not sure if it can keep up with the weight of the CSL.

That being said though...the CSL is a special edition car. Audi are also thinking of reviving an old name called "Club Sport" which would mean making track-ready cars. There are rumours that before the next TT comes out...there will be a "Club Sport" TT which will come out. 270hp and super lightweight and stripped down with reinforcements...let's see if this happens...if it does, don't be surprised if there is a Club Sport A5 to directly compete with the CSL.

the A5, by the way, is the production version of the Nuvolari concept which was shown in the past few years :D

yes I hope we see it too. Mercedes is too stupid to be able to build one :wink:

Bmw and Audi rule, mercedes suck :twisted:

[Gnome]

The Audi vs BMW will never end.

I can agree that Audis are handling better than BMWs. It's all about the quatro. More grip => faster cornering (more of less). The problem is that driving pleasure doesn't come with speed, it's just a nice feeling when something is right. No, everso, I haven't driven a fast Audi, but I have heard about them. The RS6 feels a bit heavy, and if you don't know the right tricks it will understeer when you push it, and that sort of things makes a BMW easier to have fun with.

It's kind of like the advise on Golfs from a friend of mine. "If you want a fast Golf, don't get a new one. Sure it's fast, but it's so comfy that you don't feel the speed. Buy a mk 2 GTI 16v. Then you get worse performance, but you feel the performance you get!

As mentioned, I don't know what I'm talking about, but these are some of my interpretations of the tests I've seen and read.

[mv]

it's very far-fetched and the final specs might change significantly...btw this engine is according to fastnation.de intended rather for lambos, however, i reckon lambo will keep to NA engines and bore the V10 out instead of turbocharging

[blah]

why would lambo not turbo charge? They ve done so well with turbos in the past. Must i remind you of the Daiblo SVTT?

[davide]

Just make the RS6 good to look at and add some horsepowers not a whole stable to the car, than I'm a very happy man :)

Audi, love it

[mv]

just an assumption...as far as i know lamborghini prefers NA engines in case of regular models

[sentra_dude]

for performance...yeah, MB is just not made for that reason. I've had so many arguments from Benzheads saying "they are! they are!" but come on...no manual transmission, waaaaaay too heavy, and too luxurious to really ever have performance ambitions. I don't care if they toss 800hp into an SL, it's still not gonna be able to roll with a well sorted 911....even though it will cost probably double. LOL.

that being said though, MB does make some very luxurious cars that are nice to drive. My father just took delivery of an E500 and it's absolutely beautiful....very classy indeed.

it's a nice car to drive TO the track...then you can jump in yer BMW or Audi :D


That's funny, I thought you were talking about Audis for a second there...;) :P

The lack of manual transmission...that's definitely an Audi trait...and so is the excessive weight. ;)

[sentra_dude]

The RS6 should come with manual transmission if Im not wrong and I got a 6 speed manuel on my Audi...... :wink:

but you are right Audi`s are to heavy these days as every car is, they only gets heavier and heavier...... :(

Will the manual on the upcoming RS6 be a DSG deal, or a real three pedal manual? Its a shame they don't offer the current RS6 in manual, it would make it a much better car IMO.

[Schwalbe]

In the same way, I dont have any info about a possible RS6 with manual transmission. I would be agreeably surprised if it had one. :D


i CAN say that the RS4 will be in a manual ONLY when it's first released. DSG will follow soon afterwards.


This seems to correspond with the launching of the B7 RS4, because I'm sure the DSG transmission will be available when the car will be launched for North American market: (The automatic tranny kingdom :roll: ).

[Schwalbe]

United States of Automatic :D

LOL :lol: Good one !

This is nonetheless a sad reality who affects us in Canada too.

That without counting the availability of RS models in North America which is a true shame. This situation is ridiculous, because when I was on a trip in São Paulo Brazil two years ago I saw many RS2 and RS4.

[blah]

Hmm how much is this RS4 gonna cost when it comes out? When i graduate college my siblings are getting me a car. If this is like 50-60 then maybe ill have to seriously look at this or a M3.

[Schwalbe]

United States of Automatic :D

LOL :lol: Good one !

This is nonetheless a sad reality who affects us in Canada too.

That without counting the availability of RS models in North America which is a true shame. This situation is ridiculous, because when I was on a trip in São Paulo Brazil two years ago I saw many RS2 and RS4.

what about the "fake" RS4s? LOL. i've seen a few S4s with the RS badged placed on them. Dunno if they have the mods to back them up, but since the RS4 was never sold here...i doubt they really were RS4s.

Yes I know what you talking about, I find that also ridiculous to put a RS4 badged on S4. The worst than I saw it's a RS4 badged on a Audi B6 3.0 and even on a VW Jetta 1.8T. :roll: If they knew what some owner of RS4 do with their badged.

See this :lol: : http://www.saecher.de/events/dtm2004/PHOT0391.JPG

About the S4 highly modified: I'm persuaded the RS4 is often more faster. Watch this video of an S4 APR Stage III +-500hp vs Audi RS4 MTM 500hp. It shows very well.

http://www.dubspeedracing.com/forums/local_links.php?action=jump&id=36

[blah]

Hmm how much is this RS4 gonna cost when it comes out? When i graduate college my siblings are getting me a car. If this is like 50-60 then maybe ill have to seriously look at this or a M3.

well, since the S4 is about $50k+ right now, i'm assuming the RS4 should be pushing $60k *at least*...if not a bit more ($65k). But i'm just guessing....

S4s sell for around 40 out here.

[blah]

i need to get a ride in my friends neighbors RS6. He went to work at like Noon and said im late for a meeting, turned the RS6 on and i got horny.

[is64fun]

A V10 ?!?! :shock: :shock: Holly sh*t!! Where this goes to ??? The M5 with a V10, the RS6 with a V10...... :shock: :shock:

600bhp it's almoust the same as the Carrera GT, the Enzo and SLR..... that's a lot of power :shock:

completly agree. this PS war gone mad. they are making very powerful cars due to high taxation, emission, and more strict traffic rules. i wonder how this gonna end?

[neilo63]

This power war is getting rediculous any one can increase power. How about reducing weight by making quattro components lighter for a start.

[gobs3z]

Yes I know what you talking about, I find that also ridiculous to put a RS4 badged on S4. The worst than I saw it's a RS4 badged on a Audi B6 3.0 and even on a VW Jetta 1.8T. If they knew what some owner of RS4 do with their badged.

It's not that hard to make an S4 into an RS4. It's just a $2500 turbo upgrade, and some suspension tweaking.

[Schwalbe]

Yes I know what you talking about, I find that also ridiculous to put a RS4 badged on S4. The worst than I saw it's a RS4 badged on a Audi B6 3.0 and even on a VW Jetta 1.8T. If they knew what some owner of RS4 do with their badged.

It's not that hard to make an S4 into an RS4. It's just a $2500 turbo upgrade, and some suspension tweaking.

I hope that you are not serious when you affirm that. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just for the engine.

RS4 KO4 Turbochargers
RS4 MAF and Airbox
RS4 MAF to Turbo Inlet Plumbing and Y-Pipe
RS4 High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
All Associate Plumbing and Hardware
-------------------------------------------
$6149.00 $ US

Please note that an exhaust system with downpipes is required but not included with the kit and will need to be purchased. The price of the labor $$$ for installed the parts is not included. :wink:

That does not include.

RS4 body (Front bumper + fender flares)
RS4 Brakes
Quattro GmbH RS4 Sport package Suspension
RS4 Avus Wheels
RS4 Interior (Recaro seats, steering, shift knob…)
etc...
---------------------------------
Priceless $$$$$

If you really want to know how cost a full conversion call Joshua Decker from www.achtuning.com :wink:

[gobs3z]

gobs3z wrote:
Quote:

Yes I know what you talking about, I find that also ridiculous to put a RS4 badged on S4. The worst than I saw it's a RS4 badged on a Audi B6 3.0 and even on a VW Jetta 1.8T. If they knew what some owner of RS4 do with their badged.


It's not that hard to make an S4 into an RS4. It's just a $2500 turbo upgrade, and some suspension tweaking.


I hope that you are not serious when you affirm that.

Just for the engine.

RS4 KO4 Turbochargers
RS4 MAF and Airbox
RS4 MAF to Turbo Inlet Plumbing and Y-Pipe
RS4 High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
All Associate Plumbing and Hardware


READ http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/pagebuild_v2.cgi?make=Audi&engine=2.7T&model=B5%20S4&submodel=&category=Engine&subcategory=RS4

[Schwalbe]

gobs3z wrote:
Quote:

Yes I know what you talking about, I find that also ridiculous to put a RS4 badged on S4. The worst than I saw it's a RS4 badged on a Audi B6 3.0 and even on a VW Jetta 1.8T. If they knew what some owner of RS4 do with their badged.


It's not that hard to make an S4 into an RS4. It's just a $2500 turbo upgrade, and some suspension tweaking.


I hope that you are not serious when you affirm that.

Just for the engine.

RS4 KO4 Turbochargers
RS4 MAF and Airbox
RS4 MAF to Turbo Inlet Plumbing and Y-Pipe
RS4 High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
All Associate Plumbing and Hardware


READ http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/pagebuild_v2.cgi?make=Audi&engine=2.7T&model=B5%20S4&submodel=&category=Engine&subcategory=RS4

Thanks for the link, because you prove even more my point. Because, now you can see that it takes much more than your $2500 turbo upgrade, and some suspension tweaking to turn an S4 into RS4. :wink:

Even by carrying out these kinds of modification the OEM B5 RS4 will be always faster. No doubt about it.

[gobs3z]

$2500 was just for the turbo upgrade, but if you want a full Euro-spec RS4 you'll be at $9800, and it be just as the Eurospec RS4 if not faster. These are all OEM parts from the Eurospec RS4, and since they are the same engine if just a bunch of bolt ons to make it an RS4.
RS4 OEM Carbon Fiber Engine Cover Set $595
RS4 Intake Camshaft Set $454
OEM RS4 Engine Mount $160
RS4 Upper Timing Covers $70
RS4 OEM Injector Set, 6 injectors $630
RS4 OEM Fuel pump $595
OEM RS4 Fuel Rail $249
OEM RS4 Head Gasket-Pair $109
Intake and Oil Hardware $4500
Turbo Kit $2500

Euro Spec RS4 from U.S. spec S4 $9862

[gobs3z]

$500 for an RS4 ecu. That'll deal with "tweaking" the engine. And an RS4 body kit which you can easily keep under a grand, and $500 for rims. But why would you go and get a vin number, that doesn't matter, you order it from OEM suppliers which are everywhere.

[Sm@ck]

RS6, the greatest avant highway cruiser. No better car to go with on skiing holiday. (better than a cayenne turbo) :D (imo)


brembo, do you know of a tuning company which has placed the 2.7T from the RS4 into a new A3?

[gobs3z]

you dont know much about Audi`s do you?

the S4 and RS4 are not the same even if you "slap" on a bodykit.......first of all alot of bodykits dont have the same fit as the original parts, and second you would need the front and back fenders, (maybe even the doors) in addition to front and rear bumpers and side skirts, you would alsao need the pillars at the rear.......
This is the big things Im sure there are some small parts diffrenciate the RS from the S too......

If you dont want to buy some unoriginal fenders and glue them on top of the stock S4 fenders leaving them there to rust into pieces in a year you will have to pay a hell of a lot more than a grand, and if you get original RS4 rims with rubber for $500 please send me some.......

and you will need a valid RS4 vin number to get the sides of the car cuz Audi dont sell this without a vin number to make sure the parts goes to rebuild a original RS4.......so if you dont know anybody with a RS4 willing to let you use his vin number to order the parts you will go nowhere.........

you really dont want to get some un original parts to stick to a S4, and hey you would have to repaint most of the car too.......I would love seing the result you could get from less than 1 grand when you have done all this......

I know enough not to pay retail for parts. I don't know many people that buy oem parts from the actual manufacturer. All the body parts can be collected from various out of commission RS4's themselves if ya want, you can just buy the bloody body kit which has fender panels. not hard. But what is this pillar you're talking about, just curious?

[Schwalbe]

@ sm@ck: I havnt seen one yet, Im sure there are some out there,I think it was ABT who had a "kit" where they put a 2,7 tuned close to 600hp into the TT.......not sure if it was ABT but I have seen it for sure......

Perhaps it's this one that you speak brembo, but one of Audi TT which I know have the V6 2.7T, it's the Dialynx Performance Bullett Bi Turbo conversion: http://www.dialynx.co.uk/bullett.htm

http://www.dialynx.co.uk/images/tt1.jpg
http://www.dialynx.co.uk/images/tt2.jpg

I believe it's the same car as the video posted by everso.
http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7401&highlight=audi+tt+biturbo

[gobs3z]

brembo wrote:
@ sm@ck: I havnt seen one yet, Im sure there are some out there,I think it was ABT who had a "kit" where they put a 2,7 tuned close to 600hp into the TT.......not sure if it was ABT but I have seen it for sure......


Perhaps it's this one that you speak brembo, but one of Audi TT which I know have the V6 2.7T, it's the Dialynx Performance Bullett Bi Turbo conversion: http://www.dialynx.co.uk/bullett.htm


I saw the video of it two years ago, and never understood how they could get 1.8T car to do that, and now i know. Swap the engine. Thats a cool ass car, and spinning all four wheels is sick.

[Pimp Racer]

thats a Badass TT! I lov ethe black color!

[adamk24]

So, what was the last word on this new RS6. Did anyone ever find out if it was BS? :?

[mv]

So, what was the last word on this new RS6. Did anyone ever find out if it was BS? :?

i guess we will have to wait to find out...at present, it is just a rumour...even if it was true and Audi intended to do it they could still change their opinion...but since one of the latest rumours indicates the upmarket V8-engined AMG models(E-class and higher) will receive a significant power hike to 570hp developed by an all-new NA 6.3l V8 , RS6 power figure close to 600 seems possible.

[SPEEDKILLAR]

First of all, Audi and BMW will NEVER win the HP WAR against Mercedes-Benz, NEVER :twisted:

As for the rest we can discuss about that... :D :wink:

[gobs3z]

First of all, Audi and BMW will NEVER win the HP WAR against Mercedes-Benz, NEVER

Mercedes and Audi will never win the NA power war, BMW has that in check. because they used forced induction in all their high powered cars. Now for Audi vs. Mercedes in the power war, it just all depends on how many turbos they're willing to put on their cars. You know it's true, both the companies can make 1000hp cars if they want, audi's Veryon for example and Mercedes ME412(800hp is still a lot). It's just whether or not they want to, and if there is a market for it. I think it's better to tell who makes the better engine by looking at the aftermarket companies since they push the limits of the engines.

[SPEEDKILLAR]

First of all, Audi and BMW will NEVER win the HP WAR against Mercedes-Benz, NEVER

Mercedes and Audi will never win the NA power war, BMW has that in check. because they used forced induction in all their high powered cars. Now for Audi vs. Mercedes in the power war, it just all depends on how many turbos they're willing to put on their cars. You know it's true, both the companies can make 1000hp cars if they want, audi's Veryon for example and Mercedes ME412(800hp is still a lot). It's just whether or not they want to, and if there is a market for it. I think it's better to tell who makes the better engine by looking at the aftermarket companies since they push the limits of the engines.

There is no need to win the NA "power war", for this case you have to look at the amount of power, not if it is an NA or not... :P

Welcome to the future.
and the future isn't the NA engine...

[gobs3z]

There is no need to win the NA "power war", for this case you have to look at the amount of power, not if it is an NA or not...

Welcome to the future.
and the future isn't the NA engine...

Please tell that to Formula 1 teams, i would like to hear what they say.

[gobs3z]

gobs3z wrote:
Quote:

There is no need to win the NA "power war", for this case you have to look at the amount of power, not if it is an NA or not...

Welcome to the future.
and the future isn't the NA engine...


Please tell that to Formula 1 teams, i would like to hear what they say.


they want to turbo charge, but regulations prevents it......


I'm just saying it's obviously harder to get 800hp NA than forced induction. Technology is the future, and NA cars need more technology to get those HP ratings than forced induction cars. But it's so much cheaper to just add turbo/superchargers to cars then put the money into developing high revving NA engines, and car companies are always looking to save money. And i wish they could turbo charge the F1 engines just for the power increase, that would be awesome. Dam regulations.

[SPEEDKILLAR]

gobs3z wrote:
Quote:

There is no need to win the NA "power war", for this case you have to look at the amount of power, not if it is an NA or not...

Welcome to the future.
and the future isn't the NA engine...


Please tell that to Formula 1 teams, i would like to hear what they say.


they want to turbo charge, but regulations prevents it......


I'm just saying it's obviously harder to get 800hp NA than forced induction. Technology is the future, and NA cars need more technology to get those HP ratings than forced induction cars. But it's so much cheaper to just add turbo/superchargers to cars then put the money into developing high revving NA engines, and car companies are always looking to save money. And i wish they could turbo charge the F1 engines just for the power increase, that would be awesome. Dam regulations.

Flip Flop alert..... :lol:

[gobs3z]

I love both a good N/A engine and a forced induction engine, but I am feed up with the opinion some people seem to have that there are only to slap a charger on a engine and like magic you got tons of power......it doesnt work like that, you need to build the engine from scratch with high precision parts all thru the engine wich is not cheap, and to get the engine to work good with as little turbolag as possible and coping with the temperatures and all the other threats you are facing are not easy either........

I agree it's not cheap to make the initial design of the engine. But reasons companies make engines like the W-6, W-8, W-12, and W-16 is because they're designed so that you can just place two more cylinders on them and it'll work perfectly. For forced inductiong engines the interchangled parts are endless, thats where it comes in to being cheaper. All the W engines are based off a W-6 engine and designing it to have the ability to just add 2 extra cylinders to it without having to disign to new engine. I'm repeating myself but do you get what i mean? If anything the S4 and the new turbocharged RS4 will have the same internals, they put low compression pistons in the S4 in the first place with intention on not designing new cylinders so turbo's can be just "slapped" on them.

[Wutputt]

I agree it's not cheap to make the initial design of the engine. But reasons companies make engines like the W-6, W-8, W-12, and W-16 is because they're designed so that you can just place two more cylinders on them and it'll work perfectly.
It's VR6, a W6 has never existed. And just glueing two VR6's together to make the W12 didn't work perfectly. VW engineers had a lot of heat transfer and cooling issues to deal with when engineering the W12 engine. It worked far from perfectly when they were designing the engine.



If anything the S4 and the new turbocharged RS4 will have the same internals, they put low compression pistons in the S4 in the first place with intention on not designing new cylinders so turbo's can be just "slapped" on them.
The new RS4 will be NA if I remember correctly. But even so, take for example the RS6. When the Audi engineers took the S6 4.2 V8 to make a turbocharged version of it, they did not only change the cylinder heads and added two turbochargers on it and sume extra 'plumbing'. They also changed the intake and exhaust manifold, changed the valves, modified crankshaft bearings, etc.

It's idd true if they want to make a turbocharged version of their engine in the future they calculated it in when designing the engine. But this doesn't mean the design of the turbocharged version is just 'slapping' some turbochargers the NA engine.

[gobs3z]

I will say this one more time there is a lot more to forced induction than slapping a charger on it.........please try and understand this......a forced induction engine are basicly the same as a high powered N/A engine the only big difference is you need a low comp instead of high comp....and then you starts working on the charger/cooler of choice.........of course there are things as camshafts, but it is to get one that fits the character you want for your engine.........that being N/A or forced induction.......

I'm not being literal about slapping on turbochargers, i never was. But for companies that use turbochargers, it's not as if they're using new technology though. It's easy as hell to build these engine they're using, and i know that they have to change the ehxuast exhaust manifold, changed the valves, modified crankshaft bearings, etc... as wutputt said. But can you agree that the majority of the parts on the engine are from the parts bin of audi, they're not making new designs for their engines. As you said, my mistake on typing before thinkink for the W6, it's based off the VR6. <--old technology. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2JZ is still more advanced, is sure has a better bottom end. For example, just curious what you think, would you say it's harder/technologically to create 500HP out of a 3 liter NA, or turbocharging it?

[KramRS2]

The tecnology to make a steam 3liter engine with 500hp is huge. But it makes it better than a 3liter turbo gasoline engine?

Audi has a better V10 5liter than BMW on the Gallardo. It has much more low end torque with the same punch.

Changing back to the topic, I think that there is no problem to have an Audi with more power than the Lambos. The RS5 could have 600hp. The Lambops will still be faster. Its like the M5 with 500+hp x M3CSL with "only" 360+-hp.

Bring up the V10 biturbo, or the W12biturbo (like on the Conti GT) !

[crayzayjay]

This hp war is the dumbest thing that could have happened in the industry.. :roll: