The old supercars vs. the new supercars

[is64fun]

i watched the enzo video on topgear and the comparison between the old and the new supercars. why they did not drive the old supercars around the circuit. i really want to know the lap time of the mclaren f1 and the f40 around that track. by the way we would have an idea between the old and the new

[bmwmpower]

yes, but i think nothing from that cars can beat Enzo time, mclaren is in the straight line brutal fast,but in cornerns is not that fast,

[is64fun]

i think it can pass the enzo. we can not know whether it is faster or nor in the corners since we did not drive them side by sides in the same circuit in the same conditions.

[kayser-soze]

i think the same way with you. we can make a comparison if we can compare them. WOWWWWWWWWWWWthat would be real cooool man!

[jon_s]

Christ, to think the F1 is from a different 'era'. Makes me feel old even though I am not!

[is64fun]

The Enzo is the fastest road car on a track... as the McLaren used to be some years ago. You can't compare them because they belong to two different eras. The old supercars are simplier, without electronics aids, so they are more fun to drive. New supercars, on the other hand, use F1 technology so be sure they'll be faster in any condition.

mclaren f1 used to have the pure f1 tech in its nature. with its aerodynamic features it is the exact combination of engineering with pure f1 technology. i think it can beat enzo still if there is a test between them. it is not the car of a certain era. it is the car of the formula 1 era.

[mclaren_Gt]

i think the mclaren is faster than enzo, and the jaguar xj220 is faster than f40, i realy want to know the lap time of the f1 and xj220

and the eb110 for me should be in that program

[bmwmpower]

i think the mclaren is faster than enzo, and the jaguar xj220 is faster than f40, i realy want to know the lap time of the f1 and xj220

and the eb110 for me should be in that program

EB110 is brutal with power of V8 6turbo and 4.4, his time will be surprise,
better question is how fast can be veyron,

[adamk24]

Even though the McLaren F1 is my all time Fav. Car, I still think the enzo will be faster around a track. Heres why. The F1 is an amazing car, and people that critisize its handling, is because its not a car that needs to slip at either end. Its not about controlled oversteer, its about grip, just like an f1 car. You wont ever see an f1 driver drifting a corner....
However, the Enzo is the same way, and the cornering loads and enzo can take (1.08g) is way higher than a Mclaren F1 (.98), and after watching them both lap alot of tracks, Id say this. The Mclaren is more fun. The enzo is faster. :|

[adamk24]

Oops forgot to finish what I was saying...


The enzo is faster


With that said, I think an F40 would own the zonda on a track. Between the EB110, Zonda, CGT, Mc. Merc. , F40, F50, Enzo, F1 and XJ220, this is what I would expect them to rank on a track.

1)Enzo
2)F1
3)CGT
4)F50
5)F40
6)Mc.Merc.
7)Zonda
8)XJ220
9)EB110
I have no statistical information to back this up, but based on cornering ability and power, Id bet that the F40 and F50 could beat the mc.merc and zonda at a track.

[dingo]

EB110 is brutal with power of V8 6turbo and 4.4, his time will be surprise,
better question is how fast can be veyron,

I think every number you gave is wrong.....if I remember correctly it has a 3.5L V12 with 4 turbos. :wink:

[is64fun]

Even though the McLaren F1 is my all time Fav. Car, I still think the enzo will be faster around a track. Heres why. The F1 is an amazing car, and people that critisize its handling, is because its not a car that needs to slip at either end. Its not about controlled oversteer, its about grip, just like an f1 car. You wont ever see an f1 driver drifting a corner....
However, the Enzo is the same way, and the cornering loads and enzo can take (1.08g) is way higher than a Mclaren F1 (.98), and after watching them both lap alot of tracks, Id say this. The Mclaren is more fun. The enzo is faster. :|

where do you these cornering speeds? give me a link

[bmwmpower]

EB110 is brutal with power of V8 6turbo and 4.4, his time will be surprise,
better question is how fast can be veyron,

I think every number you gave is wrong.....if I remember correctly it has a 3.5L V12 with 4 turbos. :wink:

no, only wrong was V8,4.4 its not engine i mean 4*4 all wheels drive,
and it was engine with 6 turbos

[dingo]

that was confusing, you should write 4x4 to indicate that. :wink:
The Bugatti EB110 still only has 4 turbos though, not sure where you get 6 from. :?

[bmwmpower]

from speed,maybe they are wrong,

[dingo]

they must be, because I checked a couple of sources just in case my memory had failed me and they all state its a quad-turbo V12. :wink:

[astonmartinandy]

The EB110 is definitely "only" 4 turbos lol. As for the lap times, I would say that the CGT and the Enzo are faster round a circuit than the F1. Then again, JC knows that all of the newer supercars will be faster round their circuit - he was just on about which would be more enjoyable to drive round :D

[Vansquish]

I sincerely doubt that the Mclaren F1 would beat the CGT or the Enzo, it was designed to be more useable on the road, and as a result some compromises were made. It doesn't produce the kinds of downforce, prodigious grip, nor braking power that the CGT, SLR and Enzo can. As a result, I would be surprised if it could outpace the F40/F50 by much on the TG test track. The EB110SS might give the supercars of the late 90's a run for their money, but the XJ220 beating the F40...that's a bit too much to hope. The XJ220 was much heavier, and had terrible brakes, so to match up with the F40, some serious upgrades would've had to be made. The TWR XJ220S might've been some serious competition even for the EB110SS, F40, F50, and probably even the Mclaren F1.

[SnakeBitten]

The Mclaren in my sig would beat the Enzo though...Its more comparable to the Enzo than the regular F1 since it has downforce like the Enzo and is track oriented like the Enzo....At 120 mph it would stick to the roof 8)

[astonmartinandy]

Now that would be a lot closer - an F1 LM vs. Enzo. In this case the track conceived LM (in my opinion) would beat the Enzo around a track and of course in a straight line. Can anybody get lap times to compare the two??

[Vansquish]

The Mclaren in my sig would beat the Enzo though...Its more comparable to the Enzo than the regular F1 since it has downforce like the Enzo and is track oriented like the Enzo....At 120 mph it would stick to the roof 8)

This I doubt. The LM/GTR (whichever car you choose) would probably give the Enzo a run for its money, however, the Enzo still produces more downforce than the LM in your sig, and it had better brakes. It would be a comparison test for the ages, but the likelihood is that the Enzo would probably still win out in the end. (Of course that's not to say I wouldn't want the Macca over the Enzo any day of the week)

[SnakeBitten]

The Mclaren in my sig would beat the Enzo though...Its more comparable to the Enzo than the regular F1 since it has downforce like the Enzo and is track oriented like the Enzo....At 120 mph it would stick to the roof 8)

This I doubt. The LM/GTR (whichever car you choose) would probably give the Enzo a run for its money, however, the Enzo still produces more downforce than the LM in your sig, and it had better brakes. It would be a comparison test for the ages, but the likelihood is that the Enzo would probably still win out in the end. (Of course that's not to say I wouldn't want the Macca over the Enzo any day of the week)

Your reasoning is good but remember that the LM is waaaaay lighter then the Enzo and more powerful...And you know how sick light cars are in turns....Any track with tight turns the LM will beat the Enzo imo and on a track with straights of course it will beat the Enzo...It has better brakes than the Macca but the difference is the Macca will most likely carry more speed into the turns...Plus the braking advantage the Enzo has would probably be reduced drastically if you shod the F1 LM with modern rubber..

[sergei_dekker85]

dude the Mclaren F1 is way ahead of its time.....I don't believe that it'll ose out to the enzo...acceletartion-wise its definitely faster and in terms of pracitcality the F1 wins hands down....comfort too....
heres andother example....take the Lancia Delta S4 vs the current EVo 8 MR....the lancia will still kick the EVOs butt with 2 eyes closed....this shows that old supercars sometimes does still pack a puch due to the fact that they were built way ahead of its era

[OVERLORD_CHRIS]

The LM would beat the Enzon, with it being lighter and more powerful and all. If you can get to the turn way before the Enzon, then you can afford to go just a lil slower through it, and make up for it with all the HP it has on the straights. Now on the other hand, if the Enzo happens to get there first then you screwed, and the race is in the bag for the ugly Enzo, as long as it don't mess up. But that's if they are on the track at the same time. A perfect example would be when JC tested out the Ford-GT, it did good in the turns but not exceptianaly well, but with all its brute power, it made up for it comming out the turns and beat the 360 Challenge Stradale.

[kksh]

I think the McLaren F1 given modern rubber, carbon ceramic brakes would beat the enzo. Forget about downforce. Just use the one it already has on the LM. With its power to weight ratio coupled with the current tyre and brake technology, even without modern TC or ABS, it'll go faster than all the current supercars out there. Remmeber how it took Merc CLK GTR and the Porsche GT1, cars which are designed for the track to beat the F1 on the track. And on power circuits like Monza, don't think any car will beat the F1.


And as far as I know, I thought the F40 beat teh F50 on a track. And the EB110 had a 3.5 V12 quad turbo and 4 wheel drive.

And does any one have any info on the factory tuned 660 bhp F40? I read it in Autocar that they did turn out a few of those.

[DMbaseball1604]

Yeah, the McLaren F1 LM would beat an Enzo but a reg F1 would not..and I doubt it would beat a CGT...what really ticked me off is that Jeremy said the F40 went 0-60 in 3.2 seconds..and that was faster than any car on the show..last time I checked an F40 wasnt faster than a McLaren F1 0-60...

Are you talking about the F40 LM or the Ferrari Evolution(I think thats the name) that was built b/t the time of the 288 GT0 and the F40

[bmwmpower]

they are meaning Mclaren LM,looks at GOAT picture,

[DMbaseball1604]

kksh wrote:



And does any one have any info on the factory tuned 660 bhp F40? I read it in Autocar that they did turn out a few of those.


sorry I wasnt clear...I was asking about the Ferrari he was talking about

[kksh]

Yeah it was a ferrari. They said they delivered those made to special order. With the boost cranked up, it made 660 bhp. I read it in this issue of autocar a few years back where they had the top 100 cars of all time. The F40 came in 2nd or 3rd. With the McLaren F1 being first. I'll get that article scanned once I get home. I'm travelling right now so no such luck.

[is64fun]

how about konigsegg thing? especially the ccr version. dou you think it is capable of competing with these 2 supercars

(Mclaren F1 still is my favourite :))

[mv]

the CCR probably is...however i don't admire Eggs since they are generally overrated and have never proved they are as fast as claimed.

[DeMoN]

even if they were not driven side by side, the outcome is known. Why do you think no car can beat McLaren F1? Because they have dedicated their time to something realisticly more usefull in a track, cornering. They have focused on cornering a lot since 1996 so yeah as much as I hate to admit it, since I love McLaren F1, it would be beaten by many of the cars listed on the best track times.

[SnakeBitten]

even if they were not driven side by side, the outcome is known. Why do you think no car can beat McLaren F1? Because they have dedicated their time to something realisticly more usefull in a track, cornering. They have focused on cornering a lot since 1996 so yeah as much as I hate to admit it, since I love McLaren F1, it would be beaten by many of the cars listed on the best track times.

How do you figure the outcome is known? The F1 LM would beat the CGT and Enzo on any given "racetrack" imho.....It lighter and more powerful...Only caveat is to shod the F1 with modern rubber....the outcome vs the regular F1 is known to an extent but vs the F1 LM Im positive no Supercar out now can beat it.....BTW all Mclaren has to do is update the brakes and tires on the LM and it will obliterate any of the supercar on the list...The F1 LM has a insurmountable advantage over and current Supercar that you guys keep overlooking....WEIGHT....Its some 500-600lbs lighter that the lightest current supercar[CGT?]...It also has incredible downforce that will make it run on a cieling at 120mph. So its on par with the downforce of the Enzo and CGT..With that light weight and downforce, more power and faster acceleration than them both, cant you not see the current crop are no match for it???Its a no brainer when you look at the overall picture.....All its numbers were generated on yestertech tires and brakes they are mostly unbeaten still...What do you think will happen on Enzo like rubber??? 8)