SportAuto testing the new M5 on Nordschleife

[Just_me]

Next issue, the famous germancarmag Sportauto will test the new M5 at the ring.
What do you guys think, will it do under or above 8 min?

This what they test:
1. the famous Nuerburgring Nordschleife
2. the short version of the F1 Grand Prix course Hockenheim
3. acceleration and braking tests (0-200-0)
4. aerodynamic research
5. maximum acceleration in corners (meassured in g)

Opinions??

[styla21]

M3 CSL lapped the ring at 7:50, so this should be interesting! i believe it will be sub - 8 minutes. can't wait! this is november 19th this test will come out, right? talk about anxiety... :)

[Just_me]

Too much weight to be under 8 minutes... The CSL is way lighter than the M5, and it just went 10 seconds under the mark. It's a great car, may be the fastest big-saloon ever... but stop the clock under 8 minutes at the ring with a heavy car is a bit hard IMO.

BMw claiming 7.55 min but let us see what sportauto can do. My guess 8.02 min but I be very happy if the time is less than 8 min :D

[bmwmpower]

i think can be better than 8 min

[chest3r]

It won't beat the M3 CSL IMO. It will be near the 8 minutes. I've voted for less than 8 min but probably it won't beat that. We'll see :)

[Just_me]

It won't beat the M3 CSL IMO. It will be near the 8 minutes. I've voted for less than 8 min but probably it won't beat that. We'll see :)


No i wont beat CSL with 7.50min
But with R-ties, those times isnt impossible for M5 to reach.

[martin100]

Should be better than the CSL i think. Could do it under 7:50 aswell.

[Darkel]

What about the E39 M5 ? Under 8 minutes ?
Too much wait for me, and the nordschleife has a lot of curves ^^
Over 8 minutes ... wait and see

[mrpushrod]

I reckon under, after reading about it in evo and Top Gear it's a pretty spectacular bit of engineering.

[schnell318]

I think it won´t be better than CSL but it will be slightly under the 8 min mark. I hope so. :)

[komotar]

I say 8 min 3sec.

[jon_s]

I say 8 min 3sec.


8.31sec :P

[Mr.Vercetti]

Hmmm.. I think its going to be less that 8min but very near to it. 7:55 or sth similar. Does anyone know what time the Maserati Quattroporte did?

[styla21]

^^^ Does anyone know the E55 comparative time?
Edit: Here's a list of cars that lapped between 7:47 and 8: 13. No E55? can someone help out here? This list taken from supercarfreak.net forum
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)

[Just_me]

^^^ Does anyone know the E55 comparative time?
Edit: Here's a list of cars that lapped between 7:47 and 8: 13. No E55? can someone help out here? This list taken from supercarfreak.net forum
4)

Sportauto are testing a lot of cars on the ring, using the same driver but for a reason they have never test E55 on the ring. I have know idea why.

Someone asked for Maserati. This is the times SportAuto has done.
Coupé Cambiocorsa: 8.30 min
3200 GT: 8.37 min

[SPEEDKILLAR]

I didn't vote, I think it will be exactly 8 min 8) 8) 8)

[Paco]

Mercedes is notorious for not giving their cars for testing purposes, just like Ferrari.

All tests that are done with these marques are usually privately owned cars.

I think it will scratch the 8-min. mark, but it won't beat the CSL.
Maybe the M5/M6 CSL will.

[Just_me]

Mercedes is notorious for not giving their cars for testing purposes, just like Ferrari.

All tests that are done with these marques are usually privately owned cars.

I think it will scratch the 8-min. mark, but it won't beat the CSL.
Maybe the M5/M6 CSL will.

these mercedescars have been tested by Sportauto:
SLR : 7.52 min
C55: 8.22 min
SL 55 AMG: 8.12 min
SL 500: 8.38 min
C32 AMG: 8.37 min
SLK 32 AMG: 8.26 min
CLK 55 AMG: 8.29 min
C43 AMG: 8.51 min

CLK-DTM has also been tested but figures not published yet. Strange, lot of mercedescars but no a E55 AMG :cry:

[mindgam3]

whatever the time it will completely slaughter the RS6 and E55 round a track

[adamk24]

BMW makes amazing cars. They are the kings of the technology revolution. (along with honda 8) ) So when they hipe a car in the way that the new M5 has been hiped, you know its gunna be good. I say 7:52 seconds. I would go lower, but the car IS a bit heavy... I think it will shatter the 4 door record though...

[styla21]

The SLR "only" does a 7:52?! what! so a CSL is a faster car? i am the ultimate BMW fan-boy, but i am also a realist and that proposition seems a little far fetched.. doesn't it? :D

[tuffguy]

i'm guessing/hoping that it's under 8 min.

[Just_me]

The SLR "only" does a 7:52?! what! so a CSL is a faster car? i am the ultimate BMW fan-boy, but i am also a realist and that proposition seems a little far fetched.. doesn't it? :D

Thats the time Sportauto clocked it for so yes CLS is faster but I think CLS is more sportyoriented than SLR. SLR is also heavy as hell.

[styla21]

The SLR "only" does a 7:52?! what! so a CSL is a faster car? i am the ultimate BMW fan-boy, but i am also a realist and that proposition seems a little far fetched.. doesn't it? :D

Thats the time Sportauto clocked it for so yes CLS is faster but I think CLS is more sportyoriented than SLR. SLR is also heavy as hell.

Sorry bro, i'm not sure i quite understand what you are saying?
My post refers to the BMW M3 CSL - which clocked 7:50. I am comparing it to the Mclaren/Mercedes SLR supercar - 600 + hp, 0-62 in 3.9 etc. Your post said CLS which is infact the new mercedes coupe. Just clarifying which cars we are talking about here...
The CSL is one of my all time favourite cars - i just struggle to see how it BEATS a SLR on a course this long? don't get me wrong though, i will jump up and down and kiss random strangers if it was the case! :)

[Just_me]

The SLR "only" does a 7:52?! what! so a CSL is a faster car? i am the ultimate BMW fan-boy, but i am also a realist and that proposition seems a little far fetched.. doesn't it? :D

Thats the time Sportauto clocked it for so yes CLS is faster but I think CLS is more sportyoriented than SLR. SLR is also heavy as hell.

Sorry bro, i'm not sure i quite understand what you are saying?
My post refers to the BMW M3 CSL - which clocked 7:50. I am comparing it to the Mclaren/Mercedes SLR supercar - 600 + hp, 0-62 in 3.9 etc. Your post said CLS which is infact the new mercedes coupe. Just clarifying which cars we are talking about here...
The CSL is one of my all time favourite cars - i just struggle to see how it BEATS a SLR on a course this long? don't get me wrong though, i will jump up and down and kiss random strangers if it was the case! :)

sorry M3 CSL it is.
the case is that CSL is faster than SLR on the ring, Sportauto isnt lying if that what you think?

There are cars like NSX-R and M3 CSL doing less than 8 min. Maybe SLR isnt as good as mercedes says it is.

Just so you know, CSL has R-tires which SLR dont have but even without R-tires, CLS will do it less than 8 min which still is impressive for a 360hp car.
There is a M3 CSL ACshnitzer doing the ring in 7.36min.
M3 CSL is a great handling car and dont need 600hp to manage below 8 min. Later we will also see a M3 CSL with a supercharger and 480hp be testing at the ring.

There is no cheat or lieing involved in Sportauto, CSL did it in 7.50min, SLR didnt.. since you are a bmw- fan be happy about it :D

I bet CLK-DTM is faster than SLR too.

[LotusGT1]

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

More detailed, and shows virtually every laptime of SportAuto

http://www.nordschleife.no

Shows laptimes of others as well.

Mercedes does give out test cars for magazines, bad thing is though they sometimes use tricked ones to make them look better. Famous f.e.e is the SL55 AMG that slaughtered its competition in a Auto Motor und Sport topspeed test on Nardo. Car turned out to be tuned.

[adamk24]

I also find it very hard to believe that the SLR is slower than the M3 CSL around the ring. I mean everything else that I have seen about the SLR tells me its an amazing car! Top gear clocked it like 10 seconds faster on a much shorter corse than the BMW on their track. Also doesnt the ring typically favor cars with lots of power? It has at least one huge straight, and the SLR is 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than the CSL.... and thats alot.

[Just_me]

I also find it very hard to believe that the SLR is slower than the M3 CSL around the ring. I mean everything else that I have seen about the SLR tells me its an amazing car! Top gear clocked it like 10 seconds faster on a much shorter corse than the BMW on their track. Also doesnt the ring typically favor cars with lots of power? It has at least one huge straight, and the SLR is 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than the CSL.... and thats alot.

Its not fake or a misprint, this is the result from Sportauto , testing many cars for several years. BMw themselves said 7.52min for M3 CSL, Sportauto was 2 sek faster than bmw claimed.
Chassis, tires and aerodynamics are the main reasons why CSL is so fast around the circuit.
As hard as it may sound, fact is fact.


"For ten years the magazine has been awarding an (unofficial) challenge cup to the driver who drives the fastest round on the Nürburgring using a road-approved car. Thus the race for the best time round the circuit has become a prestigious affair, as Nürburgring is still the best and most honest test of the quality of a vehicle chassis, motor performance, aerodynamics and naturally of tires.

The journalist von Saurma clocked up the fastest round in the context of a so-called “super test,� which the magazine executes regularly. Top times on the Nürburgring, always driven by the same tester, are among the criteria."

[LotusGT1]

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

More detailed, and shows virtually every laptime of SportAuto

http://www.nordschleife.no

Shows laptimes of others as well.

[KaBlookie]

I think it's entirely possible for the new M5 to beat the M3CSL, or at the very least match its time. The thing is just so quick in a straight line and wouldnt be too too much slower in the corners (still noticeably though). I know it's saying a lot for a car as heavy (relatively speaking) as the M5 to get or even break 8:00 on the 'ring, but then again it is one hell of a car...

[DUNKiNUTS]

I have faith but i want to be proven wrong. Still i want to see that braking with that heavy car.

[adamk24]

Chassis, tires and aerodynamics are the main reasons why CSL is so fast around the circuit.
As hard as it may sound, fact is fact.

The SLR has a much loser Coefficient of friction than the M3 CSL. Also teh CSL chassis is hardly changed from the standard M3. Also the SLR uses much much bigger tires. I understand the compound makes more difference than the size, but still. I dont doubt thats what they got. Im just saying that I would like to see those 2 cars on the track together in a race. It wouldnt even be close....I bet the conditions just transpired against the SLR

[Just_me]

whatever the time it will completely slaughter the RS6 and E55 round a track
i have no doubts that the NEXT RS6 will kill the NEW M5, easy......again :D

I doubt it :wink:

[Just_me]

[quote]
The SLR has a much loser Coefficient of friction than the M3 CSL. Also teh CSL chassis is hardly changed from the standard M3. Also the SLR uses much much bigger tires. I understand the compound makes more difference than the size, but still. I dont doubt thats what they got. Im just saying that I would like to see those 2 cars on the track together in a race. It wouldnt even be close....I bet the conditions just transpired against the SLR

CSL is faster than SLR at the ring. This is the place where BMW developed the M3 CSL, they built the car to fit the ring extremly well so Im not surprised its faster than SLR. Porsche 911GT3 RS is faster than SLR.

Test conditions:

M3 CSL
Defects during Test: none
Temperature (Air) Â* : 26 Degree Celsius
Temperature (Asphalt): 34 Degree Celsius
Air Pressure: 1022 mbar

SLR
Defects during Test: none
Temperature (Air) Â* : 18 Degree Celsius
Temperature (Asphalt): 35 Degree Celsius
Air Pressure: 1021 mbar

Here is another track (same driver) Hockenheim.
Here , both cars has the same laptime 1.13,5 min.

CSL / SLR
Nordkurve: Â* 131 Km/h (1,2g) Â* 122 Km/h (1,05g)
Ausg. Querspange: Â* 85 Km/h (1,15g) Â* 78 Km/h (1,1g)
Sachskurve: Â* 86 Km/h (1,3g) Â* 83 Km/h (1,2g)
Opelkurve :Â* 109 Km/h (1,15g) Â* 102 Km/h (1g)
Goal Straight Line: Â* 184 Km/h Â* 204 Km/h
Max. Delay* Â* 12,2 ms/2 Â* 11,1 ms/2

CSL also has shorter brake distance:

CSL / SLR
100 - 0 Km/h cold Â* 33 mÂ* 34,7 m
100 - 0 Km/h hot Â* 32,4 m Â* 35 m
200 - 0 Km/h Â* 129,7 mÂ* 131,6 m

Handling:
Slalom Course (36m): 135 Km/h 129 Km/h
Evasive Course (110m): 157 Km/h 152 Km/h

Its only acceleration and topspeed where SLR beats M3 CSL.
CLS taking the curves faster than SLR but lose at the straightlines. Thanks to R-tires and low weight CSL is faster in the curves. If the SLR also had R-tires the outcome might be different.
But stock cars from factory, CSL is the better car when it comes to handling.

[Just_me]

whatever the time it will completely slaughter the RS6 and E55 round a track
i have no doubts that the NEXT RS6 will kill the NEW M5, easy......again :D

I doubt it :wink:

you can doubt it all you want...it doesn't change FACTS.

the next generations will be no different...oh, and there's an E65 coming, so wave bye bye to your pipe dream :D

now you talking about cars that dont exist, you know there will be a new M5 after this, neverending battle I say. So for now M5 beats your beloved RS6 :wink: and that a fact that do exist. 8)

Ps, you do know that Sabine ringtaxidriver are doing times below 8.20min with her M5 (its a stock car, only the brakes has been changed).

[kksh]

According to www.nordschleife.no, the NSX-R went around in 7.56. Amazing considering how little hp it has. Imagine it having a bit more hp.

I think the new M5 will maybe just beat or around 8 min. Give or take 1 or 2 secs

[Just_me]

According to www.nordschleife.no, the NSX-R went around in 7.56. Amazing considering how little hp it has. Imagine it having a bit more hp.


the car was modified and had the best Honda driver in japan. But NSX-R is impressive, thats for sure.

Ps
Sportauto drove a stock NSX-R and clocked the car 8.09 min

[Just_me]

Ps, you do know that Sabine ringtaxidriver are doing times below 8.20min with her M5 (its a stock car, only the brakes has been changed).

changing the brakes can make a BIG difference on a track...especially on the Ring.

of course but so do the driver. She is driving there almost everyday and know the car and the track even if she used a blindfold. Therefore can she do fast laptimes. She must be the ultimate girlfriend, let us hope she not fast in the bed the way she is on the track :D

[thekillingroad]

Claims of BMWs for ring times.... Mostly very close..
And more real ( my opinion) than SportAutos times...


It has a lightened suspension.... perceft transmission
and dont forget the M TRACK MODE!!

[J-San]

According to www.nordschleife.no, the NSX-R went around in 7.56. Amazing considering how little hp it has. Imagine it having a bit more hp.


the car was modified and had the best Honda driver in japan. But NSX-R is impressive, thats for sure.

Ps
Sportauto drove a stock NSX-R and clocked the car 8.09 min

In fact, the NSX that Gan-San clocked at 7:56 in the 'Ring is fully stock (it's Gan-San's old own personal car, now he has a Porsche Carrera GT). It doesn't have even a sports exaust. And thought he is good, I don't think he's the best Honda driver in Japan, Keiichi Tsuchiya is better IMO.

BTW, in Tsukuba (a short track with low speed corners), the NSX-R is faster than the M3 CSL. In Motegi (a bigger track with many high speed corners), it's close, but the NSX-R has the edge most of times.