Mazda MPS 6

[CSedl87]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

[initiala4]

The 6 might be too big or too bulky to go around those corners.....

[gottacatchup]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

[CSedl87]

Doubt it.

[Fleischmann]

Gotta agree with you guys, the car is certainly too big to go through the twisty roads of some rallys. About the wieight...getting it down shouldn't be a problem.

[AlienDB7]

Consider the mazda 3 shares same platform as focus, if mazda is going to WRC, it'll be the mazda 3 for sure. Doubt Ford will be paying the bill for another WRC team though.

[frozzu]

I just can't really think of mazda in the WRC. I can't get the picture :roll:

[evoWalo]

They could always put a Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine into the 3.

[sergei_dekker85]

They could always put a Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine into the 3.
yeah and make it even more unreliable.....mazda 6 sucks IMO...no offense...enter WRC with it? its just like asking toyota to enter it with their aletzza or IS200...WAY too bulky.....would like to see the mini back though.... :wink:

[evoWalo]

Unreliable? Mazda won the 1991 Le Mans race using a Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine They're the only team from outside Western Europe or the US ever to win. (http://www.monito.com/wankel/lemans.html)

[CSedl87]

They could always put a Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine into the 3.
yeah and make it even more unreliable.....mazda 6 sucks IMO...no offense...enter WRC with it? its just like asking toyota to enter it with their aletzza or IS200...WAY too bulky.....would like to see the mini back though.... :wink:
I have one (willing to put pics up if you want me to), and it is far from 'sucking.' It can easily hold it's own against alot of cars. As for the weight, weight can be shed. As for them 'not being an engine company,' I beg to differ. The only publicity that Mazda is getting right now is through some SCCA races, and the Mazda racing series, and Mazda really needs to get it's name out there. Since the Ford Focus is already established in Europe it really wouldn't surprise me if they pull out in a year or so. As for them not paying for another WRC team, they're pulling out of F1, there's $400 mil a year right there that they can put to other racing adventures. I expect to see a Mazda 6 or 3 pretty soon in WRC guise.

[oldsnail]

mazda was in the rally in the early days.. with the mazda 323 gtx awd turbo .. that was also a rare car to find..

[graywolf624]

yeah and make it even more unreliable.....mazda 6 sucks IMO...no offense...enter WRC with it? its just like asking toyota to enter it with their aletzza or IS200...WAY too bulky.....would like to see the mini back though....

ummm..While admitedly the rotaries dont last longer then about 70000 miles in street form (without repairs), they have more then proven themselves in 24 hrs at lemans. The 6 actually could lose alot of the weight.. My only question would be.. is it too wide? I dont have that answer.


The only publicity that Mazda is getting right now is through some SCCA races, and the Mazda racing series, and Mazda really needs to get it's name out there.

Ya forgot formula mazda :)

[gottacatchup]

As for them 'not being an engine company,' I beg to differ. The only publicity that Mazda is getting right now is through some SCCA races, and the Mazda racing series, and Mazda really needs to get it's name out there. Since the Ford Focus is already established in Europe it really wouldn't surprise me if they pull out in a year or so. As for them not paying for another WRC team, they're pulling out of F1, there's $400 mil a year right there that they can put to other racing adventures. I expect to see a Mazda 6 or 3 pretty soon in WRC guise.

You can differ all you want, the fact is that the engine mazda uses in the SCCA races has to be rebuilt every few races while the other competitors run the same engines for almost the entire season. Mazda has done amazing things with the rotary but their standard piston engines are way behind any other company's.

[graywolf624]

You can differ all you want, the fact is that the engine mazda uses in the SCCA races has to be rebuilt every few races while the other competitors run the same engines for almost the entire season. Mazda has done amazing things with the rotary but their standard piston engines are way behind any other company's.

Hmmm..
See I see an issue here. the mazda 6 has 2 engines.
The 2.3liter
and the 3.0 liter duratech out of the contour/taurus (with a different top end).
The second one I think blows that arguement out of the water. Consider where else the duratech engine sits in 6 liter v12 form..
*whispers* Aston martin

The 2.3 liter is so new, no one knows about its reliability. This is the one theyve chosen for the mazdaspeed version.

[gottacatchup]

You can differ all you want, the fact is that the engine mazda uses in the SCCA races has to be rebuilt every few races while the other competitors run the same engines for almost the entire season. Mazda has done amazing things with the rotary but their standard piston engines are way behind any other company's.

Hmmm..
See I see an issue here. the mazda 6 has 2 engines.
The 2.3liter
and the 3.0 liter duratech out of the contour/taurus (with a different top end).
The second one I think blows that arguement out of the water. Consider where else the duratech engine sits in 6 liter v12 form..
*whispers* Aston martin

The 2.3 liter is so new, no one knows about its reliability. This is the one theyve chosen for the mazdaspeed version.

yes but the 3.0 litre was techinicly built by ford so that's cheating. Mazda's 1.8 and 2.0 litre from they're protege and new 3 is a terrible engine and the one they use in SCCA racing.

[graywolf624]

Mazda's 1.8 and 2.0 litre from they're protege and new 3 is a terrible engine and the one they use in SCCA racing.

yeah.. well neither of these engines are what is in the mazda speed.

And actually the up level new 3 has that 2.3 liter from this mazda speed car as well.

Most car manufacturers have one or two dogs.. That doesnt mean everything they make or use(remember theres a hell of a lot of cross platform sharing nowadays) is crap.

[CSedl87]

As for them 'not being an engine company,' I beg to differ. The only publicity that Mazda is getting right now is through some SCCA races, and the Mazda racing series, and Mazda really needs to get it's name out there. Since the Ford Focus is already established in Europe it really wouldn't surprise me if they pull out in a year or so. As for them not paying for another WRC team, they're pulling out of F1, there's $400 mil a year right there that they can put to other racing adventures. I expect to see a Mazda 6 or 3 pretty soon in WRC guise.

You can differ all you want, the fact is that the engine mazda uses in the SCCA races has to be rebuilt every few races while the other competitors run the same engines for almost the entire season. Mazda has done amazing things with the rotary but their standard piston engines are way behind any other company's.
I'm talking about the 2.3 and 3.0. The 3.0 is out of Ford, so I doubt it as any real reliability issues, and the 2.3 is wayyyy new, so no one knows how reliable the engine is.

yes but the 3.0 litre was techinicly built by ford so that's cheating. Mazda's 1.8 and 2.0 litre from they're protege and new 3 is a terrible engine and the one they use in SCCA racing.
So what if it's out of Ford? VW's W12 is from Audi, and Audi's 1.8 is from VW. The same motor thats in my M6 shows up TWICE in the Aston Martin DB9. The thing is platform sharing saves a shitload of money, and it's not really cheating. Cross-Pollination of companies is (and has) going to happen.

[gottacatchup]

^^^It is cheating cause my statement was MAZDA can't make decent engines. I know platform sharing saves money and is overall better for companies that dont have a budget or time to develope egines themselves but it doesnt change the fact that mazda does not make very good piston engines.

[Vansquish]

^^^It is cheating cause my statement was MAZDA can't make decent engines. I know platform sharing saves money and is overall better for companies that dont have a budget or time to develope egines themselves but it doesnt change the fact that mazda does not make very good piston engines.

Your statement was also unfounded since the piston engines to which you referred are in fact not Mazda engines, but ones built by Ford. The 2.3L was the last engine my dad worked on while he was at Ford...his last project was the Ford Focus ST (for North America). He was involved in the engine development as well and it was his team that set the reliability, fuel-efficiency and power targets, all of which it met without any difficulty. It is an extremely smooth I-4 due to the fact that it's got a set of balancer shafts, and quite deceptively torquey too. The 2.5L V6 in the 626, MX6, and Ford Probe GT was an excellent engine...reliable, buttery smooth, it even sounded good...the only problem with it in this day and age is that it was somewhat underpowered, though a set of higher-performance cams and a free-flowing exhaust system freed up 200bhp quite easily in one of the prototype cars my dad had (he was also the chief program engineer for the 1993-97 Probe GT, Motortrend COTY in '93). The 2.5 V6, unlike the 2.3 I-4 and the new 3.0L Duratec V6 was in fact a Mazda-designed and built engine, even though it was primarily produced in Flat Rock, Michigan.

edit:
I very nearly forgot, the 2.0 I-4 that was used in the Mazda 626 and MX6 and also in the Ford Probe was dead reliable as well...the only problem with it was, like the 2.5, it was somewhat underpowered for the amount of mass it had to move.

[gottacatchup]

I neve questioned their reliability in street form, i said they were not easy engines to produce large amounts of power with. You should know that upgrading the 2.0 that i was talking about is very difficult and the race engines because they are at their limits making 240 bhp do not last very long.

[Vansquish]

Your dangling prepositions vex me.

I don't know why you would want to upgrade the 2.0 instead of swapping it out entirely for a more responsive, exciting engine, seems like kind of a dumb pursuit anyway.

[CSedl87]

Wow, cool to have an inside source... Sorry gottacatchup, I'd say you got hosed....

[gottacatchup]

Your dangling prepositions vex me.

I don't know why you would want to upgrade the 2.0 instead of swapping it out entirely for a more responsive, exciting engine, seems like kind of a dumb pursuit anyway.

you CANT do an engine swap in a protege, the 2.0 is as good as it gets. So if you have a protege you have to upgrade the 2.0.

[Vansquish]

Your dangling prepositions vex me.

I don't know why you would want to upgrade the 2.0 instead of swapping it out entirely for a more responsive, exciting engine, seems like kind of a dumb pursuit anyway.

you CANT do an engine swap in a protege, the 2.0 is as good as it gets. So if you have a protege you have to upgrade the 2.0.

If you can do a 5.0 V8 engine swap into a Ford Focus ZX3, I say you can do an engine swap in a Protege. I know that the best engine you could get in the Protege STOCK was the 2.0, I wasn't suggesting you tune that engine, but that you drop in something more potent from the start.

[Pokiou]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

does teh word rotory mean anything to you .. kinda killed your theory on shit engine didnt it ;)

[Vansquish]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

does teh word rotory mean anything to you .. kinda killed your theory on shit engine didnt it ;)

Unfortunately you didn't read far enough into the argument Pokiu hehe...we're past the rotary thing, as gottacatchup seems to think they're alright, but wants to bitch about the reciprocating piston IC engines that Mazda makes...doesn't seem to think they're up to snuff.

In the case of the 2.0L in the Mazda MX6/626 and Ford Probe, yeah, it was an underpowered, heavy lump of metal...who in their right mind would try and tune a 113bhp engine instead of getting something more racy to put into the car in the first place?

edit:
I should also add that so far as I can remember (I may well be wrong) but the 2.0L engine in the Protege is platform-shared across the Focus and even into the Mondeo range, as it's the same 130bhp Zetec in each. I know for a fact that these are readily tunable engines capable of churning out well in excess of 300bhp and 270lb-ft of torque with stock internals, and the addition of a turbo and freer flowing exhaust. This is what the Focus FR200 used, and I've not heard of any problems with the car except for the fact that one of the exhaust mounting brackets detached while we had it.

[gottacatchup]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

does teh word rotory mean anything to you .. kinda killed your theory on shit engine didnt it ;)


Unfortunately you didn't read far enough into the argument Pokiu hehe...we're past the rotary thing, as gottacatchup seems to think they're alright, but wants to bitch about the reciprocating piston IC engines that Mazda makes...doesn't seem to think they're up to snuff.

In the case of the 2.0L in the Mazda MX6/626 and Ford Probe, yeah, it was an underpowered, heavy lump of metal...who in their right mind would try and tune a 113bhp engine instead of getting something more racy to put into the car in the first place?

edit:
I should also add that so far as I can remember (I may well be wrong) but the 2.0L engine in the Protege is platform-shared across the Focus and even into the Mondeo range, as it's the same 130bhp Zetec in each. I know for a fact that these are readily tunable engines capable of churning out well in excess of 300bhp and 270lb-ft of torque with stock internals, and the addition of a turbo and freer flowing exhaust. This is what the Focus FR200 used, and I've not heard of any problems with the car except for the fact that one of the exhaust mounting brackets detached while we had it.

the 2.0 from the protege is a mazda only engine and has no relation to the ford zetec. Trust me my friend has a protege5 and has been researching how to make more power out of his engine for a couple years now. Doing an engine swap would cost approx. 5-10 thousand dollars and just isnt practicle. You can turbo the 2.0 and make 200 bhp but anything higher then that you have to replace the internals and get a forged block because mazda doesnt use any forged internals in the 2.0. Even basic upgrades are relatively ineffective in the 2.0 because mazda's fuel mapping is designed to keep the car as cool as possible and as clean as possible. Whenever the computer senses extra air entering the engine it dumps just dumps fuel into the cylanders to combat it.

Trust me i've had first hand experience trying to produce power with the 2.0 and it doesnt work. The 2.3 hasnt been around long enough to prove its a great engine but we'll just have to wait and see what happens there.

[oldsnail]

has anyone noticed that the title, MPS doesnt stand for anything..
MSP = MazdaSpeed Protege
mazda 6 should be MazdaSpeed 6 (MS6)

[graywolf624]

the 2.0 from the protege is a mazda only engine and has no relation to the ford zetec.

kinda a moot point considering I dont think they even make a model with that engine anymore.

[Vansquish]

how about MPS = Mazda Performance Series?

[HeilSvenska]

MPS = Mazda Performance Six

[oldsnail]

yeh... but 'mazdaSpeed' is the trademark name for all their factory performance tuning. toyota has there TRD, dodge has their MOPAC, benz with AMG , nissan NISMO etc..
mazdaSpeed miata, mazdaSpeed protege.. and mazdaSpeed 6.

no one calls it mps
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/paris_2004/0411_mazdaspeed6/

http://www.supercars.net/garages/84FordMan/6v2.html

[Vansquish]

yeh... but 'mazdaSpeed' is the trademark name for all their factory performance tuning. toyota has there TRD, dodge has their MOPAC, benz with AMG , nissan NISMO etc..
mazdaSpeed miata, mazdaSpeed protege.. and mazdaSpeed 6.

no one calls it mps
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/paris_2004/0411_mazdaspeed6/

http://www.supercars.net/garages/84FordMan/6v2.html

Dodge has Mopar, not MOPAC, as for TRD, it's Toyota Racing Developments, MazdaSpeed is the SVT for Mazda, though it ought to be noted that several of the concepts that Mazda/Mazdaspeed have had of late were some model followed by the designation MPS. 626 MPS, Mazda 6 MPS etc...etc...I really believe it means Mazda Performance Series.

[oldsnail]

that was a typo, and i was just saying that in the past, they used the abbreveations such as MSP for there mazdaSpeed protege and MSM for the mazdaSpeed Miata. and also,with the recent debut of the mazdaSpeed Rx8. it just sound more consistant with their entire lineup to name it begining with a MS.

but we just have to wait and see, right? :P

google :mazda performance six and mazda performance series vs mazdaSpeed 6
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mazda+performance+six&btnG=Search&meta=
and
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mazda+performance+series&btnG=Search&meta=
vs
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mazdaspeed+six&btnG=Search&meta=

[Vansquish]

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1157

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/myrtleb/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/autoshow2000/concept/mazda/626_mps.tmpl

My point is that the MPS is not a designation that has been alotted ONLY to the 6, MSP for the Protege is all well and good, as is the MSM for the Miata, but it isn't that to which I'm referring. My guess is that it'll hit the market as the Mazdaspeed 6, not only because it follows the current naming trend, but because it says so on the Mazdaspeed website.

Perhaps MPS is Mazda Performance Series but refers only to concept cars...only problem with that line of thinking is that there was an UN-turbocharged Mazda Protege MPS with a 150bhp engine, and it wasn't only a concept car.

[Ghostbat]

This is old topic, but I read a review of Mazda 6 MPS yesterday. Finnish magazine tested it and dynoed it after being suspicious about its power.
Mazda says it is 260BHP, 380Nm or torque and it will do 0-100kph in 6,6s.

Testdrivers drove 5,9 with the first try from 0-100kph and said that it would do even better if they would push it to the limit. They put the car in dyno and it gave the numbers 273+ HP and 400+ Nm.

MPS costs about 48000€ in Finland, where Evo VIII costs 58000€.

I could be interested if I were in need for a new car and I would have 48000€ extra :D

Yet haven't heard of anything about Mazda and WRC, but for sure it would be nice to see more manufacturers.

That's some very impressive figures. First time I hear of a testdriver that doesn't push the car to it's limit :)

Any chance it could be a slightly tuned press cars? it's not unheard of.

[TransAm]

^ are you saying the US Focus ST has a 2.3 motor or did I misunderstand you?

[dutchmasterflex]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

You don't give them any recognition for making the best rotary engines in the world?

[jasc]

^^ The Gentelemen's Agreement is long gone. HP can affect tax and insurance.

[gottacatchup]

Anyone else thinking that Mazda is about to hit the WRC? Think about it: 2.3L Turbo'd 4 (WRC spec is 2.0L, turbo, max 300hp) with 260. The 2.3T would be able to be taken down to 2.0L, and up to 300hp with ease. I dunno but it just seems like they're about to take the scooby, and mitsu on. That'd be awesome if they do....

I doubt mazda could easily get 300 bhp outa their 2.0 litre. Mazda is NOT an engine company and probably makes the worst engines of any major manufacturer. Either way i doubt they'd go into WRC, the 6 is too big and heavy to really be a competitor.

You don't give them any recognition for making the best rotary engines in the world?

way to read the topic :P
I think the renesis is an amazing engine, one of the greats but the remainder of the past mazda cylander engines, specifically the FS series were terrible.