Carrera GT the fastest at Nurburgring

[bmagni]

With the clock showing 7’32.44 minutes, Horst von Saurma, Chief Editor of the German specialist magazine “sport auto,” achieved a new record for road-approved vehicles, at the wheel of the 612 HP strong Porsche. He completed the 22.6 km long round in the Eifel at an average speed of 164 km/h.

"It was really touch and go. The circuit was dirty in some sectors, which didn’t make it any easier,” beamed Horst von Saurma with glee, after his record round.


For ten years the magazine has been awarding an (unofficial) challenge cup to the driver who drives the fastest round on the Nürburgring using a road-approved car. Thus the race for the best time round the circuit has become a prestigious affair, as Nürburgring is still the best and most honest test of the quality of a vehicle chassis, motor performance, aerodynamics and naturally of tires. Since 1995, times have gradually improved from 7’52 minutes to the current 7’32.44 minutes. Wolfgang Dürheimer, Member of Porsche’s Management Board responsible for Research and Development: “The time achieved by Horst von Saurma is excellent and demonstrates the potential of our car. Until recently such times could exclusively be clocked up with pure racing prototypes.”


The journalist von Saurma clocked up the fastest round in the context of a so-called “super test,” which the magazine executes regularly. Top times on the Nürburgring, always driven by the same tester, are among the criteria. Wolfgang Dürheimer: “It is precisely for this reason that the 7’32.44 minutes are so easy for us to put in to context and are thus valuable.”

[5vz-fe]

Does that mean it is even faster than the ones that Walter put in?

[yg60m]

Already posted by st-anger but without the details :wink: Thank you mate, just hope they will Supertest the Enzo to compare :wink:

[bmagni]

yeah, i think with the enzo its more than enough, we dont need a slr here :D

[Darkel]

Already posted by st-anger but without the details :wink: Thank you mate, just hope they will Supertest the Enzo to compare :wink:
On another track then; because of all the reasons which are in the other thread

[leo_26782]

Does anyone knows what car has been tested before, for the precedant records?

[tigerx]

6:59 --- Ferrari 312T, Niki Lauda, German GP, training (1975)
7:06 --- Ferrari 312T, Clay Regazzoni, German GP, race (1975)
*1.2m longer circuit than standard Nordschleife

6:11 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, training (1983)
6:26 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, race (1983)
6:41 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Derek Bell
7:50 --- BMW X5 Le Mans V12, Hans Stuck (2001)
*0.232 km longer than current, standard Nordschleife

7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, Jörg Müller (2003)
7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo H22A (2003)
7:20* -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated
7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004
7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001)
7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:40* -- Porsche Carrera GT, *estimated time on cold and partially wet track (2003)
7:40 --- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001)
7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12 S (2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GT-R 600 (2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:12 --- Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:15 --- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 PS
8:15*-- Holden GTS (2000), *estimated
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS (11/1997)
8:17 --- Aston Martin V12 Vanquish (2003)
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (08/2000)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355 (06/1997)
8:20 --- Audi RS6 (2002)
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 (12/2000)
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS (10/1998)
8:22 --- Mercedes-Benz C55 (07/2004)
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003)
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:24 --- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004)
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
8:25 --- Callaway Corvette C12
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI (11/1999)
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (11/2002)
8:26 --- Mercedes-Benz SLK 32 AMG (05/2001)
8:26 --- Nissan 350Z (2003)
8:28 --- BMW M5, 400 PS(also confirmed by Motor Commodore magazine, 2000)
8:28 --- Nissan Skyline GT-R, 277 PS
8:28 --- Porsche 993 Carrera 2
8:29 --- Mercedes-Benz CLK 55 AMG (05/2000)
8:29 --- Audi S4 4.2 Avant (11/2003)
8:30 --- Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa (10/2002)
8:31 --- Ferrari F355 GTS, 380 PS
8:32 --- BMW M Roadster, 321 PS (09/1997)
8:32 --- BMW Z4 3.0 SMG (05/2003)
8:32 --- Porsche Boxster S
8:32 --- Volkswagen Golf R32
8:34 --- Acura NSX, 276 PS
8:34 --- BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i, 231 PS (04/2001)
8:35 --- BMW M3 Coupe, 321 PS
8:35 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé (02/2002)
8:36 --- BMW E36 M3 EVO, 321 PS
8:36 --- Alpina-BMW B3 3.3 Coupé (07/1999)
8:37 --- Maserati 3200GT (2002)
8:37 --- Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG (09/2001)
8:37 --- Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec, 350 PS
8:37 --- Subaru Impreza GT Turbo
8:37 --- Honda NSX 3.0 (07/1991)
8:38 --- Honda NSX 3.2 (08/1997)
8:38 --- Mercedes-Benz SL500 (12/2001)
8:38 --- Porsche 996 Carrera, 296 PS
8:38 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz CLK 5.8 (12/1998)
8:39 --- Honda S2000 (01/2000)
8:39 --- Morgan Aero 8 (04/2003)
8:40 --- Holden GTS, on an in and out lap (2000)
8:40 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Targa Automatic (07/1997)
8:41 --- Aston Martin DB7 (1999)
8:41 --- Audi S3, 210 PS (06/1999)
8:42 --- Audi S4, 265 PS (08/1998)
8:42 --- Lotus Exige (11/2000)
8:43 --- Honda Integra Type-R (12/2000)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5
8:45 --- Chevrolet Corvette, 339 PS, automatic
8:46 --- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS
8:47 --- Honda Civic Type-R, 200 PS (11/2001)
8:49 --- Jaguar XKR Coupe (07/1998)
8:49 --- Renault Clio Sport V6
8:49 --- Audi TT 1.8T quattro Coupé, 225 PS (11/1998)
8:50* -- Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (2000)
8:51 --- Mercedes Benz C43 AMG (02/1998)
8:52 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 430
8:58 --- Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (07/1991)
9:09 --- Volkswagen Golf V6 4Motion

7:21 - Blitz Supra, 650 PS (Autocar magazine 1997)
7:59 - Nissan Skyline R33, unknown suspension & boost; no limiter (Autocar magazine 1997)
8:20 - BMW E36 M3, 321 PS (Autocar magazine 1997)

[zmydust823]

danng the porsche 956 did amazing

[tigerx]

it ain't street legal or production car though lol ;)

[ZfrkS62]

nice find tigerx! 350Z didn't do half bad :D always a good thing to see

[ferrari550]

So a ferrari 355gts is only 1 second faster then a vw golf r32??
that is kind of sketchy.
the golf time must be wrong

[racer_f50]

So a ferrari 355gts is only 1 second faster then a vw golf r32??
that is kind of sketchy.
the golf time must be wrong
that GTS must've been with a slow driver or something, cuz if you look above it, another 355 got a 8:18, which seems more correct.

[FPVPSI]

Some shocks in that list...1 that grabbed me was this one:- :shock:

7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)

If that time is true, well done Chev!

[zmydust823]

i think it all depends on the driver, one slight miscalculation, and there goes the whole thing...a porsche 996 turbo should destroy a C6 any day of the week on the track.....

[espen]

It's not fair to compare Ring times directly without stating the distance driven. Sport Autos lap times are run at full lap miuns 200m (von Saurma feels going flat out past the pit/onramp is unnecessarily dangerous, in motorsport full laps are timed from the starting line, while on regular open days, times are BTG since the track is blocked, preventing a whole lap.

A BTG lap is typically about 20s quicker/shorter than a full lap, with some souces claiming a Sport Auto lap about 3s quicker than a full lap. So as you see, a Sport Auto lap is actually a lot (LOT) faster than a similiarly timed BTG lap, hence the list above is not so accurate.

The Ring remains the ultimate test of a car, because driver confidence is a huge player. Going flat out at the Ring, you are driving into blind corners and over blind crests while accellerating absolutely max. As times show, a big engine will do you no good if the rest of the car isn't up to the task, as demonstrated by times posted by lower powered but sweet handling cars like the Golf R32 and the Impreza STi. In a straight line, neither of these would have a snowballs chance of matching the competition in their time bracket... but whan grabbed by the neck and driven all out, they perform like camps. Which probably is no surprice if you've ever driven an STI ;)

[crayzayjay]

I'm a little confused. If the record is 7.32, then what's this?
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004

[mindgam3]

hmmm i cant believe a murc is faster than a zonda either.... a zonda has more power and better handling.

What about the Radical SR3 turbo?? That did it in 7:19

It's also for sale @ £44,500 ;) Bargain

http://www.radicalextremesportscars.com/for_sale.php

[espen]

Sport Auto times are often referred to as "official", because they are well documented and pretty much directly comparable. Hence 7.32 is the reccord now.

Anyone can claim a fantastic time outside controlled conditions, all you need are some slicks and chassis tuning ;)

[zmydust823]

i think it all depends on the conditions such as the wheather too..if it is hot, turbo cars have a disadvantage..because they dont spool up as fast or somethign like that when the air is hot...when it is cold, i guess they do.

[mindgam3]

all engines dont produce as much power when its hotter. Colder air is more dense and so more can fit into the cylinder at any one time than hotter air can

[rob_e1]

Yep, mindgam3 is right:

www.radicalmotorsport.com/news_folder/nordchliefe/index.php

Radical SR3 Turbo, driven by Phil Bennett 7:19.

This is a fully road legal vehicle in uk, not sure about Germany. Maybe thats why they're claiming the record for the porsche? If so, then the headline should really be:

"Carrera gt fastest german car on nurburgring.. but not actually as quick as something costing a fraction of the price with only a 1500 cc engine made in the uk"

:D

Makes very little sense to me. If you want to go fast 'round a TRACK buy a track car (radical, westfield, caterham etc) or even better, but a second hand race car and trailer it there and back. Real race cars are nasty things to drive on the street. For some reason magazines are obsessed with driving ROAD cars on tracks. If you set the car up to do well on a track it will generally be crap on the road.

The CGT is no-doubt a great car, but for fast trips around the 'ring people should look elsewhere IMO.

[rob_e1]

Oh, and interesting to see an esprit time at 8:13 (Sport 350) which is quicker with only 354 PS than the Ruf 911 CTR 2 which has 520 PS ... :shock:

If only they hadn't put the engine in the wrong place...



:wink:

[mindgam3]

Yep, mindgam3 is right:

www.radicalmotorsport.com/news_folder/nordchliefe/index.php

Radical SR3 Turbo, driven by Phil Bennett 7:19.

This is a fully road legal vehicle in uk, not sure about Germany. Maybe thats why they're claiming the record for the porsche? If so, then the headline should really be:

"Carrera gt fastest german car on nurburgring.. but not actually as quick as something costing a fraction of the price with only a 1500 cc engine made in the uk"

:D

Makes very little sense to me. If you want to go fast 'round a TRACK buy a track car (radical, westfield, caterham etc) or even better, but a second hand race car and trailer it there and back. Real race cars are nasty things to drive on the street. For some reason magazines are obsessed with driving ROAD cars on tracks. If you set the car up to do well on a track it will generally be crap on the road.

The CGT is no-doubt a great car, but for fast trips around the 'ring people should look elsewhere IMO.

hehe so your saying u wouldnt buy a cgt if you had the money? ;)

Granted for the price it doesent seem worth it when you cold buy a radical for track and something smaller and more road biased for the road, but the CGT is a pretty good comprimise between the two if the price is factored out, probably more so than the enzo because it's not as big.

[rob_e1]

Ahh.. but in the real world you can never factor out price - its is always relevant.

Would i buy a CGT if i had the money? - Actually to be honest, no.

£330k or whatever it is Porsche charge for that would buy me:
- Murcielago (silver, black leather with the roadster wheels/brakes) say £170k
- Lotus Exige (black, black alcantara int, with a supercharger, great on the track and you can you drive there and back. Call that £50k
- RS6 avant for everyday. Say £60k.

That leaves £50k for fuel, insurance, speeding tickets, cocaine, hookers etc.
Still want that CGT..??

Feel free to make up your own list but i think the basic elements of "supercar", "trackcar" and "daily car" are a good starting point :)

R

[st-anger]

...well, i think we can´t compare such cars with a Carrera GT - sorry, but IMO that´s simply not right and i think all the ppl not being a Porsche nut will agree...

i know many CGT owners and till now NO ONE told me that he bought a GT because it´s the fastest track car..
u buy a GT because of passion, the sound, the technology used in it and most of all: ppl buy a CGT to have a piece of history - not only because there are just 1500 pieces, but from what i know - we won´t see a car like this for maybe 15 to 20 years!!!
don´t worry, there´ll be again Porsche supercars - some say maybe sooner onw´ll guess :wink: - but not a car like the 2004 Carrera GT, it´s definitely and outstanding car in Porsche history...

besides, it´s the fastest supercar for the track right now, i don´t know any test or comparison where the Enzo had been faster round a track, but on the other hand it´s not perfect, but good for daily life - not very common for supercars...

some wise words from a guy who had driven both extensively - on track and in town:

"The Enzo is an incredible machine, the only worthy Carrera GT competitor. But we looked at the CGT as a complete package, not only for the track but for the street too. And I think Porsche did the better job because you can pick up your bread at the local bakery in the CGT and afterwards drive to the track to drive the hell out of it.
Ferrari probably knew that most of their customers won't ever drive on the track or even use it as a daily commuter as some CGT customers intend to do and even on the track, the Enzo does keep up pretty well at the beginning but it's performance degrades with every round. That said, I think the CGT is the better value for the money and due to the high production number, parts and repair facilities will be much easier accessible than with the Enzo on a longterm run."

another thing - when i want a true weapon for the track, i´d buy a factory prepared GT3-RS which is able to clock a 7 flat - price...of course...but again personally i would never buy a "Radical type car"...

so my choice´d be

Carrera GT as a supercar, driveable on track and weekends or for a little vacation...
slightely tuned GT3 RS as a track car, right now my choice´d be the GT3 RSC from Cargraphic...
and finally a E60 M5 or Cayenne Turbo as a daily driver- to be honest i´d buy both because i won´t trailer the track car with a 500hp 7speed SMG saloon :wink: , the Cayenne is just perfect for that purpose... :P

some might say now: nearly only Porsches!!??? - well, name me a good alternative instead of that three... :wink:

but well...unfortunately ( or luckily :wink: ) i don´t have the time for such toys... :|

[mindgam3]

hehe i agree with both of you completely.

If the average car nut is lucky enough in life, he/she would probably buy a fast track/road car and an everyday car. Eg an 3 series and a caterham for example. But as st anger said, the CGT is so much more than just about any other car, both on road and track, and if you're going to buy one you undoubtedly have at least one other car already. But thats why to most of us its just a dream and nothing more ;)

[st-anger]

But thats why to most of us its just a dream and nothing more ;)

...when i was 18 like u - i´d have said something like this as well, BUT, when u´re perseveringly enough to work your ass off 24/7 for some years.....everything´s possible :P

[mindgam3]

But thats why to most of us its just a dream and nothing more ;)

...when i was 18 like u - i´d have said something like this as well, BUT, when u´re perseveringly enough to work your ass off 24/7 for some years.....everything´s possible :P

hehe my thoughts exactly, can't wait to start my engineering degree and hopefully it'll lead to good things. Only time will tell ;)

[Darkel]

...when i was 18 like u - i´d have said something like this as well, BUT, when u´re perseveringly enough to work your ass off 24/7 for some years.....everything´s possible :P

That's what I always say before an important test at school :mrgreen:
BTW if I had to say something about the CGT it would be "Dream machine", 10 minutes in the porsche multimedia thread and I'm completely in love 8)

[zmydust823]

if i had the funds to buy a CGT i would in a heartbeat, i would take a CGT over an enzo a saleen or a ford GT...that car is a piece of history as St. Anger said..incredibly limited and being a Porsche fan, its like an obligation...porsche is special, its so unique when u drive it..ask anyone who has a driven a number of exotics and fast cars...i have driven evo's z06's m3's and a number of cars and they are nice, dont get me wrong, but they cannot compare to that of porsche...

[Flotch]

very interresting to look at all these times on the Nordschleife :)
So bad we haven't got the video that goes with each time :lol: