Interesting article on the issue of manual vs. automatic

[AlienDB7]

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Jason Vines, vice president of communications for DaimlerChrysler AG, recalls accommodating a test drive request from an automotive writer from a national publication. The request was for a Dodge Viper.

“We had it delivered and the journalist goes, This is a stick! I can’t drive a stick!’” Vines said, noting Dodge doesn’t offer the Viper any other way.

And pity Roy P. Bougie of Blaine, Minn. He’s doing 10 years for a 2000 carjacking that failed because he couldn’t drive the vehicle he’d stolen.
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Read the remaining article at http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/13/a01-271661.htm

[jorge]

Thanks, i found the article very interesting.

[5vz-fe]

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Jason Vines, vice president of communications for DaimlerChrysler AG, recalls accommodating a test drive request from an automotive writer from a national publication. The request was for a Dodge Viper.

“We had it delivered and the journalist goes, This is a stick! I can’t drive a stick!’” Vines said, noting Dodge doesn’t offer the Viper any other way.

And pity Roy P. Bougie of Blaine, Minn. He’s doing 10 years for a 2000 carjacking that failed because he couldn’t drive the vehicle he’d stolen.
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That is pathetic, an automotive writer can't drive a stick............that is almost like a male porn actor who don't know what is doggy style. (sorry for the inappropriate comparison)

[RC45]

This, however, can foster a point-and-shoot approach to driving that worries Randy Bleicher, a racing instructor and vice president of Arizona-based ProFormance Driving Events.

“It takes away the true essence of driving,” Bleicher said. “There used to be a skill to driving, the coordination of the feet and hands together. Now, people can go fast without thinking about what they’re doing.”

This is true... :)


A driver’s evolution should be gradual, he added, recalling a client’s insistence that he be allowed to drive his Ferrari on ProFormance’s track. The 360 Modena was equipped with paddle shifter and no clutch.

“He went through the fence backwards,” Bleicher recalled.



And this I won't even say "I told you so"... ;) :lol: :twisted:

[Wutputt]

Idd interesting article, but I'll stick with a manual ;)
Why? Because I like fun driving, and being involved in the process of driving. And you can't heel and toe with an automatic. Actually you can, but it’s pointless :D

But for normal driving or stressed driving in traffic jams an automatic is a nice option. It's very comfortable. My dad now has an automatic in his car, and it surely is relaxing to drive. But if I had to choose that car, I still would go for a manual, just to have the fun of doing it myself.


Some thoughts about the 'new' technologies of recent years:

- tiptronic, steptronic, geartronic etc.: You can idd choose your gear as you wish, but it isn't the same as with a true manual, cause its reaction is quite slow and the transmission doesn't want to keep the gear you want if you're hitting the revlimiter, can be freaky in corners (when driving at not quite legal speeds though). It's more a gadget. The people I know who have these, don't use it quite often. And with a normal auto (don't know if it's true for all American cars) you can also choose your gear, but you don't have the paddle behind the wheel or the push-sticky thing.

- automated manual transmissions (like Ferrari F1-gearbox, BMW SMG, Alfa's Selespeed, Mercedes Sequentronic etc.): good for sportscars, but gear shifting isn't that comfortable as with a true automatic transmission. If I had the option when buying a sportscar I would go for a normal manual, than you can have the full enjoy of driving it.
An exception on this not very comfortable issue: the dual wet clutch automated manual transmissions like Borgwarner/VW/Audi's DSG. They are fast and comfortable, but still quite expensive and that fuel efficient (but better than auto transmissions)

- CVT's: superb things: very comfortable and can be fuel efficient and you have superb performance. The problem is they can't process big torque figures unless 'power splitting' is implemented (like Torotraks IVT). And it's really weird driving it, cause the revs don't rise as with a conventional transmission with gears, it suddenly goes to a certain rev point and stays there almost all the time (unless you back of the pedal or push it more down). It feels and sounds like slipping clutch, it's a quite weird feeling.


But in the end I would say: an auto transmission is perfect for normal driving. But if you want to have some fun while driving and getting involved in the process: go for a proper manual.

[astonmartinandy]

There has been, and will be many more methods of transmission, but for sheer involvement, satisfaction and interaction, the manual gearbox reigns supreme :D

[number77]

[quote]
A driver’s evolution should be gradual, he added, recalling a client’s insistence that he be allowed to drive his Ferrari on ProFormance’s track. The 360 Modena was equipped with paddle shifter and no clutch.

“He went through the fence backwards,” Bleicher recalled.



And this I won't even say "I told you so"... ;) :lol: :twisted:

wtf? you mean they made the paddle shifters so that they will go into reverse? i thought the car had a stick in the middle for park, drive, reverse, for everday driving, and the paddles were just for fun. i mean, if someone was downshifting to 1st, it sure would suck to accidently go into reverse.

and yea, with modern paddle shifting, traction control, cars are being built more and more for those that can't drive. its said really, but hey, sometime you have to caiter(sp?) to the rich.

[styla21]

i thought it was impossible to put a car into reverse using paddle shifters? Forward, Reverse, Park and Neutral are selected with a gear lever. So this could be the same as a guy putting an auto through the wall. That part is driver-stupidity, not flawed-paddle-shifter.

[T-Bird]

[quote]
A driver’s evolution should be gradual, he added, recalling a client’s insistence that he be allowed to drive his Ferrari on ProFormance’s track. The 360 Modena was equipped with paddle shifter and no clutch.

“He went through the fence backwards,” Bleicher recalled.



And this I won't even say "I told you so"... ;) :lol: :twisted:

wtf? you mean they made the paddle shifters so that they will go into reverse? i thought the car had a stick in the middle for park, drive, reverse, for everday driving, and the paddles were just for fun. i mean, if someone was downshifting to 1st, it sure would suck to accidently go into reverse.

and yea, with modern paddle shifting, traction control, cars are being built more and more for those that can't drive. its said really, but hey, sometime you have to caiter(sp?) to the rich.

I think they mean he spun the car around into the fence he didn't drive it backwards into the fence. BUT the Vanquish does have reverse by pulling both paddles at the same time when stopped. I have to say Manuals are nice to have but I like my Automatic I have gotten used to it and have no problems with it I can rev the piss out of each gear and it won't shift. I do love manuals but it's not the end of the world for me since for drag racing you want an Auto and road racing a Manual so it's all about the situation and F1/SMG I, II, III are all good alternatives.

[sentra_dude]

Such a bunch of fucking wankers (how can you be an auto-journalist and not know how to drive a manual?!)...everyone should at least learn to drive a manual...:x




A driver’s evolution should be gradual, he added, recalling a client’s insistence that he be allowed to drive his Ferrari on ProFormance’s track. The 360 Modena was equipped with paddle shifter and no clutch.

“He went through the fence backwards,” Bleicher recalled.



And this I won't even say "I told you so"... ;) :lol: :twisted:

wtf? you mean they made the paddle shifters so that they will go into reverse? i thought the car had a stick in the middle for park, drive, reverse, for everday driving, and the paddles were just for fun. i mean, if someone was downshifting to 1st, it sure would suck to accidently go into reverse.

and yea, with modern paddle shifting, traction control, cars are being built more and more for those that can't drive. its said really, but hey, sometime you have to caiter(sp?) to the rich.

I think what RC meant was...the Ferrari driver thought he was some hot shit...even though he didn't even know how to drive a proper manual...so he goes out on the track, and what's the first thing he does? Spins it (that's how he went through the fence backward geniuses, not b/c the fapply-paddles went insane and selected reverse at 120...lol :P).

[gottacatchup]

This is a sad state of affairs for the auto industry as a whole. Either way i dont think that the manual can ever die, although there is a trend towards its extinction. There are still enough people out there and hopefully enough to pass it on to the next generation to keep it around.

[bmagni]

“There used to be a skill to driving, the coordination of the feet and hands together. Now, people can go fast without thinking about what they’re doing.”

this is stupid, once u get used to it, u do it as a reflex, and if u go fast its much better a manual... aaaah...

[heath]

I will NEVER get an auto, if the car doesn't come with a manual they can keep it! And I mean real manual with a clutch pedal! Automatic gearboxes are for pussy's that can't drive.

I think the thing to remember in this discussion is its horses for courses, as in the article the young student with a miata that was an auto, because of the traffic where he lives.

for me, I don't mind, if I'm in a manual then so be it, if not, well thats just the way it goes...

[Gnome]

I think autos are much more common in America. My experience with US suburbia makes me think that it would be more tempting to get a auto if I was living there too.

In Norway we have one simple main rule for yielding at crossroads: If there is no sign, you yield for any car that comes from your right. I thought this was an international rule. It works fine in urban and suburban areas. We slow down before each intersection, driving in 2. or 3. gear depending on the visibility.

When I was in Seattle a few years ago we drove through a hopeless suburban area with a manual. There were stop signs at every intersection. We had to start over in 1. gear and accelerate up through 2. and then brake down at the next intersection. I think we drove like this for 10 blocks, without coming close to any other traffic. Even I might have considered an auto if I had to do that every day!

[gottacatchup]

When I was in Seattle a few years ago we drove through a hopeless suburban area with a manual. There were stop signs at every intersection. We had to start over in 1. gear and accelerate up through 2. and then brake down at the next intersection. I think we drove like this for 10 blocks, without coming close to any other traffic. Even I might have considered an auto if I had to do that every day!

Man i do that everyday its really not a big deal and if you're passionate about driving well worth the sacrifice for when you get out onto an open stretch.

[sentra_dude]

when they stop offering cars with a manual gearbox is when i will stop buying new cars. sorry i need a manual gear box there is just no 2 ways about it for me.

True words! 8)

[Neutrino]

I think its a sad thing that the art of using a manual is disapearing. :(


It’s funny how people keep mentioning that you can manually select gears with an automatic. They completely miss the whole point. A manual is not just about selecting gears, its more about the art of directly controlling the engine load and rpm trough unlimited variations of the degree in which we engage/disengage the clutch and throttle and therefore directly changing the way the power is sent to the wheels to suit any situation.

For example: You want to race and shift fast side step the clutch to engage it and keep the throttle wide open, or you want a ultra smooth shift for daily driving slip the clutch more while pressing very gently on the throttle (you can be far smoother than any auto). There is snow/ice on the ground, slip the clutch a lot and even start in second (this will beat any traction control), or if you are in a hairpin and you want to keep your revs up to prevent bogging again slip the clutch to reduce the engine load........etc

Bottom line the point of manuals is complete control for situations as the ones presented above.