F430 6 speed true manual?

[miurasv]

Is the ferrari f430 being offered only with the F1 transmission? Or is it available with the 6 speed?

[5vz-fe]

^I couldn't agree more. I know that majority of 360 owners opt for the F1 box option, but those minority manual owners are the true car enthuisat who enjoy the pleasure of driving and shifting. If Ferrari is making F430 F1 only, it will upset quite a few ppl.

[dropot2]

I've read that it will only be offered with the semiautomatic gearbox seen in the Stradale. I think there shloud be at least a manual box option if you want... but selling only the F1 box is a mistake IMO. You heard Jay Leno... "I haven't bought an Enzo because of the box, I prefer the CGT"...

Completely agree...the F1 paddles will never have the elegance of a manual box IMO
________
XJR-14 (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Jaguar_XJR-14)

[mindgam3]

Im fairly positive there will be a manual option.... i dont see how they cant sell it without the manual

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Im fairly positive that there will be the manual option....once the semiautomatic gearbox is aimed to non pure car enthusiast(ferrari was obligued to spread its market to this kind of people since 1990 approx. for the ferrari survival on the market)...and the ferraris purpose have been always to make rude cars for pure car enthusiasts.....the grille manual gearbox(alongside Lamborghini) has been always the distintive element which has given to ferrari a lot of prestige (similar to the red colour, the non confortable image of the ferrari, the magnificient sounds, the hard pedals...) during many years....as a result.....in order to maintain the sportive make gained with a lot of hard work...im certainly confident that ferrari will offer the manual option

[mindgam3]

bullshit is the semi aimed at non pure car enthusiasts. The semi has been developed from F1 racing and the only reason ferrari put it in their road cars is for performance only. The fact that most people who aren't pure car enthusiasts buy this because it has an auto option is simply a side effect.....

[RC45]

bullshit is the semi aimed at non pure car enthusiasts. The semi has been developed from F1 racing and the only reason ferrari put it in their road cars is for performance only. The fact that most people who aren't pure car enthusiasts buy this because it has an auto option is simply a side effect.....

See.. I told you.. :)

It's a mediocre semi-auto people moving taxi aimed at yuppies..:P ;) When are they gonna make a real car again...?? :lol:

[rob_e1]

Autocar 7th Sept 04:

"As with the 360 there are two transmissions, one a conventional six-speed manual, the other the paddle-shift F1 automated clutch system"

[bmagni]

Thank God they finally also offer a manual box... But it's a bit dissapointing that everytime that Ferrari releases a new model, all the car enthusiasts are nervous because of "there will be a manual box?". See the Enzo and the Stradale... I'm afraid one day a Ferrari will come without manual, even in option

i dont think they will ever stop producing cars without manual option, as for the Enzo and Stradale, the transmission is there for pure performance as mindgam says...


See.. I told you..

It's a mediocre semi-auto people moving taxi aimed at yuppies.. When are they gonna make a real car again...??


its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette ;) :lol: :lol:

[nejcdolinsek]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Ive got the same concerns as you dani about the fact that its possible that ferrari will not give even the option of a manual gearbox in the future,....and this decision will dissapoint almost every pure car enthusiast........

IMO Ferrari must have offered the manual option for every ferrari model, including the special models such as the Challenge Stradale and the Enzo

[RC45]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

I wouldn't know - I have a short-shifter equipped 6 speed manual transmission. :)

[Toronto]

bullshit is the semi aimed at non pure car enthusiasts. The semi has been developed from F1 racing and the only reason ferrari put it in their road cars is for performance only. The fact that most people who aren't pure car enthusiasts buy this because it has an auto option is simply a side effect.....

See.. I told you.. :)

It's a mediocre semi-auto people moving taxi aimed at yuppies..:P ;) When are they gonna make a real car again...?? :lol:

ya i guess the fact that a f1 paddle shift gear box is better on a track makes it less of an enthusiasts car right :wink:

but a manual is better IMO

[racer_f50]

ya i guess the fact that a f1 paddle shift gear box is better on a track makes it less of an enthusiasts car right :wink:

but a manual is better IMO

i completely agree. having that F1 box could probably save some valuable time on tracks with how fast they shift. i'd like to see someone manually shift in under 350 miliseconds (i think thats right).

for pure involvment and enjoying a nice drive on a twisty public road though, i'd choose the 6 speed manual any time.

[noliebro]

I am almost positive they will provide both

[Toronto]

I am almost positive they will provide both

i don't see why not, their lastest car (612) comes in both, doesn't it?

[miurasv]

I just don't see how you could walk out of a ferrari dealership with an automotic. way to be.

[bmagni]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

I wouldn't know - I have a short-shifter equipped 6 speed manual transmission. :)

neither u have an f1 paddle shift f430 or 360, then how do u know its mediocre ???
:roll:

[RC45]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

I wouldn't know - I have a short-shifter equipped 6 speed manual transmission. :)

neither u have an f1 paddle shift f430 or 360, then how do u know its mediocre ???
:roll:

Have you driven one? How would you know it wasn't? :P

[bmagni]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

I wouldn't know - I have a short-shifter equipped 6 speed manual transmission. :)

neither u have an f1 paddle shift f430 or 360, then how do u know its mediocre ???
:roll:

Have you driven one? How would you know it wasn't? :P

u didnt answer my question...

[RC45]

its not as mediocre as a cheap automatic vette


:lol: :lol:

I wouldn't know - I have a short-shifter equipped 6 speed manual transmission. :)

neither u have an f1 paddle shift f430 or 360, then how do u know its mediocre ???
:roll:

Have you driven one? How would you know it wasn't? :P

u didn't answer my question...

OK - this is why I don't like street based paddle shift systems.

In the street situation where a car has perhaps 2 to 3 turns lock to lock, you are faced with paddles that cover about 60 degrees of arc at each hand position.

Feeding the wheels hand to hand may place the shift paddle out of your hand position in bends where you may select a gear while mid turn (slower speed situations) and now you either face shifting at a different time or moving your hand to an un-natural position in order to shift.

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)

In summation - observe how clumsy the paddle shift cars fare against their stick shift siblings in the Best Motoring battle.. M3 vs M3 vs Ferrar vs Ferrari vs EVO vs EVO for a practical demonstration how out of place paddles are on high ratio steering systems.

That is a semi-technical explanation... the gut reaction is that real drivers shift with a stick..:P

[Toronto]

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)


its good to know that you know nothing about an F1 car wheel :wink:

Feeding the wheels hand to hand may place the shift paddle out of your hand position in bends where you may select a gear while mid turn (slower speed situations) and now you either face shifting at a different time or moving your hand to an un-natural position in order to shift.

BULLSHIT - if you have to shift in a turn with a h-gate you have to take one hand of the wheel and shit, you can do the same in a paddle shift car so it doesn't change anything now does it, it is even safer on a paddle shit car because two hands are on the wheel more of the time due to the shorter distance between the paddle shift and the wheel, vs. the wheel and the location fo the h-gate.

as the the out of place bullshit, if you drive the car every day you would get a feel for the car, so it might feel bad if you only have driven it once, but if you drive it offten you would get a feel for it

as for the best motoring battle it all comes down to the driver

[RC45]

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)


its good to know that you know nothing about an F1 car wheel :wink:

OK wise ass.. how many turns lock to lock is on a F1 car?



Feeding the wheels hand to hand may place the shift paddle out of your hand position in bends where you may select a gear while mid turn (slower speed situations) and now you either face shifting at a different time or moving your hand to an un-natural position in order to shift.

BULLSHIT - if you have to shift in a turn with a h-gate you have to take one hand of the wheel and shit, you can do the same in a paddle shift car so it doesn't change anything now does it, it is even safer on a paddle shit car because two hands are on the wheel more of the time due to the shorter distance between the paddle shift and the wheel, vs. the wheel and the location fo the h-gate.

Now you are just sucking actual excrement right out of your arse to justify your point of view.

If what I point out was not a problem - many WRC cars would not have shift rings around the entire steering wheel.

Paddles are just a gimmick.. pure and simple - :)

I have once again proven that you Tifosi simply object to anyone who doesn't worship the prancing horse.

You speak with such conviction as if you are the only person privy to the ultimate proof.

:roll:



as the the out of place bullshit, if you drive the car every day you would get a feel for the car, so it might feel bad if you only have driven it once, but if you drive it offten you would get a feel for it

as for the best motoring battle it all comes down to the driver
No it doesn't - have you seen the comparison in question?

[Toronto]

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)


its good to know that you know nothing about an F1 car wheel :wink:

OK wise ass.. how many turns lock to lock is on a F1 car?


OK wise ass.. look at an F1 steering wheel, look at were the paddles are?

If what I point out was not a problem - many WRC cars would not have shift rings around the entire steering wheel.

Paddles are just a gimmick.. pure and simple

have you watched a modern WRC race? many of them don't have h-gates, simply they are a waste of time, they a what is almost the same has paddles in a WRC, mayb you should read the FIA rules on rally cars.

mayb you should "Go read a book before you make a post in this thread again.
:)
You are completely wrong."

[styla21]

Whooop, RC has been challenged again, this is going to get ugly. What sort of an effect does 'adaptive steering', like on some of the new bmw's have if you using with paddle shifters? Because it's no longer a case of 2 1/2 turns for full lock, more like 1? Also RC, the awkwardness caused by using a paddle can be compensated with the incredible shift times, an example i AM familar with is the 80ms on the m3. I doubt that's possible with a conventional stick shift, right?

[RC45]

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)


its good to know that you know nothing about an F1 car wheel :wink:

OK wise ass.. how many turns lock to lock is on a F1 car?


OK wise ass.. look at an F1 steering wheel, look at were the paddles are?

You never answered my question...



If what I point out was not a problem - many WRC cars would not have shift rings around the entire steering wheel.

Paddles are just a gimmick.. pure and simple

have you watched a modern WRC race? many of them don't have h-gates,

Are first stupid then a Canadian? Or first a Canadian then stupid?

I did not mention anything about an h-gate on WRC ... I mentioned full circle shift rings.. :roll:


simply they are a waste of time, they a what is almost the same has paddles in a WRC, mayb you should read the FIA rules on rally cars.

mayb you should "Go read a book before you make a post in this thread again.
:)
You are completely wrong."
No I have once again proven that youth has again runs it's mouth off thinking it knows everything... :)

[RC45]

Whooop, RC has been challenged again, this is going to get ugly. What sort of an effect does 'adaptive steering', like on some of the new bmw's have if you using with paddle shifters? Because it's no longer a case of 2 1/2 turns for full lock, more like 1?

Thats all very well - but the vehicles we are addressing are not so equipped.

We have gone over the "what if" a million time.. ;)

Unless you mean like mine that has had speed sensitive steering for going on 4 years now.. ;)




Also RC, the awkwardness caused by using a paddle can be compensated with the incredible shift times, an example i AM familar with is the 80ms on the m3. I doubt that's possible with a conventional stick shift, right?
And exactly what does this 80ms shift give YOU?

Nothing. :)

Doesn't give you a better 1/4 time.. doesn't give you a better top end.. hell, doesn't even get you around a bend any quicker.. :P

You can't even use a stick shift it's ultimate.. ;) so why fuck with yet anothet gimmick that will remove you from the visceral experience of driving..? :)

p.s. What happened to the F430 6-speed discussion? ;) You clowns are so easy to set off.. :lol: ;) :D

[Caps8419]

can you shut the hell up for one minute? christ! someone get TT to open a subforum called" bitch at just about everything so you think you look cool" moderator rc45. christ dude let people converse in these topics you dont see me f**ing around in your american car section do you? no... ive never stepped foot in there. so unless you have anything interesting/ informational to say, shut the hell up. "us tifosi" dont wanna hear ur bull crap.

[RC45]

can you shut the hell up for one minute? christ! someone get TT to open a subforum called" bitch at just about everything so you think you look cool" moderator rc45. christ dude let people converse in these topics you dont see me f**ing around in your american car section do you? no... ive never stepped foot in there. so unless you have anything interesting/ informational to say, shut the hell up. "us tifosi" dont wanna hear ur bull crap.

Touchy touchy touchy.

It appears all the 20 somethings are really angry at the world.

In other words - kiss my ass :)

[Toronto]

This is not an issue with say a F1 car that has low ratio steering.. ;)


its good to know that you know nothing about an F1 car wheel :wink:

OK wise ass.. how many turns lock to lock is on a F1 car?


OK wise ass.. look at an F1 steering wheel, look at were the paddles are?

You never answered my question...

ok yes there is less lock, but that has nothing to do with the paddles, in the first semi-auto cars in F1, the wheels had the same amount of lock as all the other cars (2 1/2) this has gone down the last 14 years, but the location fo the paddles didn't, so mayb b4 you start talking about paddle shifting and lock and how "bad" it is, mayb you should look at the fuckin wheel of an f1 car, and see the difference between it an a enzo or a 360

the paddle shift on the f1 works better then on a road car, yes that is true, but it has nothing to do with lock at all.

RC you know nothing about F1 (if so very little) you thought they use active suspension, you think that lock on the wheel affects the paddle shifts, you think the paddle shift slows down the track time, or doesn't have an effect at all, well it does. YOUR WRONG, ask any F1 driver, all of them think the paddle "shit" works, you think some wanna b'Redneck is going to prove ferrari's formula wrong?

[Caps8419]

lol nicely put toronto. you sound like montoya. (no offense)

come to think of it... RC sounds like montoya.... but he would'nt get that joke now would he.

[Toronto]

lol nicely put toronto. you sound like montoya. (no offense)

come to think of it... RC sounds like montoya.... but he would'nt get that joke now would he.

you call me montoya... i fuckin kill you :twisted: :twisted:
8) :lol:

[T-Bird]

If what I point out was not a problem - many WRC cars would not have shift rings around the entire steering wheel.

Paddles are just a gimmick.. pure and simple

have you watched a modern WRC race? many of them don't have h-gates,

Are first stupid then a Canadian? Or first a Canadian then stupid?

I did not mention anything about an h-gate on WRC ... I mentioned full circle shift rings.. :roll:



Umm RC I hate to burst your bubble (the first time EVER!)
http://img60.exs.cx/img60/2631/DSC01336.th.jpg (http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=DSC01336.jpg)

[Caps8419]

lol nicely put toronto. you sound like montoya. (no offense)

come to think of it... RC sounds like montoya.... but he would'nt get that joke now would he.

you call me montoya... i fuckin kill you :twisted: :twisted:
8) :lol:


yea i know, i deserve it hehe :D :D

[RC45]

RC you know nothing about F1 (if so very little) you thought they use active suspension,

IF they used active suspension was the point of a statement I made a long time ago.

If you are going quote some get your fucking facts straight.


you think that lock on the wheel affects the paddle shifts,

Learn to read - WTF are you on about? -How would lock effect paddle shifts? I am saying the short arc of some paddles appears to have affected drivers trying to get decent performance out of the said cars.

I am beginning to realise many on the freshly educated have very little comprehensive reading skills.


you think the paddle shift slows down the track time, or doesn't have an effect at all, well it does.

Not to an amateur driver on the road it doesn't.

Get a goddamned clue.

You conveniently measure everything in terms of the uber-pro.

Just the same way spending $10,000 on golf clubs won't automatically make you as good as Tiger Woods - just because a car is adorned with F1 trickery does not automatically make it the best suited for the world outside competition.

These are the realities of life you seem to gloss right over.


YOUR WRONG, ask any F1 driver, all of them think the paddle "shit" works, you think some wanna b'Redneck is going to prove ferrari's formula wrong?
You and your buddies crooning and having wet dreams about F430's are NOT F1 drivers - so the gains to YOU will be minimal. :)

:)
Oh - and it is YOU'RE for gods sake... get it right already.

[RC45]

If what I point out was not a problem - many WRC cars would not have shift rings around the entire steering wheel.

Paddles are just a gimmick.. pure and simple

have you watched a modern WRC race? many of them don't have h-gates,

Are first stupid then a Canadian? Or first a Canadian then stupid?

I did not mention anything about an h-gate on WRC ... I mentioned full circle shift rings.. :roll:



Umm RC I hate to burst your bubble (the first time EVER!)
http://img60.exs.cx/img60/2631/DSC01336.th.jpg (http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=DSC01336.jpg)

What bubble?

Did I say every WRC car used full circle shift rings? No. The Peugeot 206 had one for a while.. :)

But it was a nice try to get in a cheap shot.. ;) :P I will give you that much... but better luck next time.. ;)

[dons5]

actually since u guys are not professional drivers then i think the gains from using F1 gearbox would not be minimal as rc45 said, but rather greater then usual, unless ur a prefessionl and really know ur shifting perfect, u gotta remember there aint jus people that know and dont know how to do proper heel toe throttle blipping downshifts, but there are also the ones that think there doin it right but arent, trust me ive seen it in alot of videos and it tottally unbalances the car, but u wont get that in f1 cause u get porfect downshift everytime

[mindgam3]

With regards to the F1 paddle shift, i'd say it is better for faster track times.... For the majority of the time you dont have to take your hands of the wheel which gives you greater control.

For 90% of the corners on race tracks you dont have to turn more than one turn in either direction and so at least one hand would be in reach of either shifter.

In just about all race tracks you'd change gear before you turn in anyway but for when u need to upshift in the corner (i cant think why u'd wanna downshift unless u selected the wrong gear on entry) the upshift is an extended paddle.

For track use and outright speed and control, i'd go for the F1. But for the majority of the scenarios and road use i'd go for the manual although they'd be nothing wrong in going for the F1 if u just used it on the road.

F1 'boxes may not be everybodies preference but in my opinion they are definately not a "gimmick", at least not the ferrari version.

[RC45]

See - now isn't just admitting there is a legitimate space for the 6-speed option in the lineup a welcome admission that both camps have a valid point of view..? ;) :)

This is all we are asking for - as fans of "stirring" the transmission.. ;)

[mindgam3]

See - now isn't just admitting there is a legitimate space for the 6-speed option in the lineup a welcome admission that both camps have a valid point of view..? ;) :)

This is all we are asking for - as fans of "stirring" the transmission.. ;)

lol, and who said otherwise?

[dons5]

mindgam3 nicely said