Why doesnt Peugeot/Ford/Citroën make street legal rally car

[evoWalo]

I always wondered why they dont offer it to the public like Subaru or Mitsubishi does.

[FordGTGuy]

Ford is a family car company except for the fordgt. A truck company also you might wanna ask other peeps about the other companies.

[mindgam3]

because the rally cars are based on production cars, not the other way round....

Ford have the focus RS.... not completely a rally car, but gives EVO's n scoobys a run for their money on track

[evoWalo]

What I ment was why not offer their production cars to near rally car spec. Naturally they cant sell what's on the WRC but something as sporty, fast and brash?

[possessed_beaver]

I've always thought the same. I think that the FIA should say "well, you want to compete in the WRC??? ok, you have to produce 100 cars like the rallye one, with 2000cc Turbo and 4WD". It's what happen in the FIA GT: if you want to race there, you need some production cars to homologate the race versions (look at the MC12). It would be fun to see a Xsara 2.0 Turbo 4WD, or the Focus Cosworth again. Some time ago there were a lot of cars that way: the Lancia Delta HF Integrale, the Ford Escort RS Cosworth... and now we only have the Impreza and the Lancer.

I ABSALUTLEY AGREE!!!

it will bring more intrest to the sport aswell, because of the comp of who has the best aftermarket car, and i think it's stupid a hyundai is in the same leage as a scooby, just because hyundai spent millions on a one off 4wd turbo beast with a hyundai body shell on it.

removing the homologate laws was the stupidest thing ever!

[evoWalo]

I'd love to try out a Citroen or even a Peugeot street legal rally car. :)

[Ian_yamaue]

I've always thought the same. I think that the FIA should say "well, you want to compete in the WRC??? ok, you have to produce 100 cars like the rallye one, with 2000cc Turbo and 4WD". It's what happen in the FIA GT: if you want to race there, you need some production cars to homologate the race versions (look at the MC12). It would be fun to see a Xsara 2.0 Turbo 4WD, or the Focus Cosworth again. Some time ago there were a lot of cars that way: the Lancia Delta HF Integrale, the Ford Escort RS Cosworth... and now we only have the Impreza and the Lancer.

I ABSALUTLEY AGREE!!!

it will bring more intrest to the sport aswell, because of the comp of who has the best aftermarket car, and i think it's stupid a hyundai is in the same leage as a scooby, just because hyundai spent millions on a one off 4wd turbo beast with a hyundai body shell on it.

removing the homologate laws was the stupidest thing ever!
Yeah, they're fools leting Subaru and Mitsubishi alone in this market...

[HeilSvenska]

That Citroen C4 concept looked promising

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Its not easy to obligue a brand to produce a certain number of some specific cars, such as the pug 307 turbo 4wd, the C4 turbo 4wd...., and make profitable these actions, once this strategy was practiced in the Group A and Group B era during the 80s and 90s

For example.....if we go back to the group B period(1982-1986)...every brand had to produce at most 200 units of a certain model in order to get homologated as a group B and let the exactly same car compete in the World Rallying Championship....as a result.....once it was easy to find out 200 people all over the world capable of purchasing cars around 350bhp, 850kg of weight, a very little wheelbase, cars capable of achieving 500bhp easily, and capable of affording 54000€ during the 85s........at the end of the day.....the group B cars developed too much power and they were too tricky to drive in rally courses(the rallying roads are surrounded by big trees, walls, cliffs......, they roads are in bad conditions in general such as the snow, the humidity on the road, the ice on the road, the foggs........)..as a result...the FIA(in that period the FISA) decided to ban the group B after the Corsica rally in june 1986)..i wouldnt like to imagine what sort of cars would be produced by citroen, pug, Ford....if they were allowed to produce 100 cars at most of a certain model
After the group B prohibition, the FISA decided to create the world rallying championship based on the group A cars...as a result, the brands had to produce 5000 units at most of a certain model in order to be allowed to run in the World Rallying Championship...as a result.....many brands decided to take part in the WRC such as Ford with the Sierra Cosworth, Lancia, Subaru, Toyota, Mazda....once the FIA observed that the evolution of the Group A car was getting a similar tendence to the Group B even more progresively(the group A cars were becoming more and more similar to the group B cars)..the FIA decided to increase the maximum number of producing car to 10000 in order to get the Group A homologation...as a result....only Subaru and mitsubishi concluded that they were capable of achieving 10000 4wd turbo cars and make profit......

Although the subject of the topic sounds good and interesting.....its not easy to achieve it basing on the previous rallying experience, thats why i decided to explain a bit the Group A and Group B era

By the way....thanks for the pics...especially the japanese ferrari 355/lancia 037 pics where they are surrounded by a large number of lancia thema 8.32s...IMO this pic should be called a piece of art rather than a awesome pic

[evoWalo]

You're an expert in rallying dude! I'm shocked :shock: ... May be you're right: the Evo or the Impreza are more than simply cars, are the flagship of their brands and I suppose that a Citroën or a Peugeot Turbo 4WD would have a lot of difficulties to reach the Evo levels in marketing success.
How hard is it for them to flaunt their track records. So far their cars have been beating Evos after the time of Makinnen. Heck Mitsu just pulled out from competition to concentrate on the next Evo.

[hemi_fan]

I agree, it would be really cool to have some EVO and STI competitors out there...

[Paco]

I agree: the mentionned car manufacturers should profit more from their rally success.

Profit should not be the main objective but image building. When you bring out a limited edition people will flock to buy such a rare car. Look at the succes of the Focus RS.

Especially Peugeot and Citroën are not taking advantage, since they are winning big time in rallying. Furthermore, they COULD make a profit by building one chassis/engine configuration and just rebadge it Peugeot and Citroën (same factory).

Weird...

[racingfreak]

What bout the peugeot 206 180gti? That was based on the 206 wrc or not?

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Pug made the 206 GTI in order to compete against the renault Clio RS(the main competitor of the 206 ever; furthermore, about 10 years ago the pug 205 GTI 1.9 was the main competitor of the Renault Clio 16V/Williams...about 19 years ago the pug 205 GTI 1.6 was the main competitor of the renault 5 GT Turbo 115 bhp..about 23 years ago the pug 106 ZS/talbot samba rallye was the main ccompetitor of the renault 5 alpine, and so on...) pug launched the 180 bhp GTI regardless pug is compiting in the world rallying championship or not......for instance...the pug GTI has nothing to see with the WRC(4 wheel drive and turbo engine) once the GTI is an aspirated 2.0 engine and front wheel drive....ill give you another example...for instance the only sporty version of the skoda fabia is the RS 1.9 TDI...whereas skoda was running in the world rallying championship with the Fabia WRC last year in Auriol and Gardemeisters hands.......one fact more....pug inmediately after the 206 launching on the market(about 6 years ago) launched the GTI(a similar version of the GTI 180, a 2.0 engine but with 140 bhp instead and a non admission variable system), and pug was compiting in the formula 1, and they decided to go to the WRC about three years ago when the pug 206 GTI had been selling for one year...in conclusion....the WRC doesnt depend too much on the everyday use equivalent cars....

[No.1]

You all seem to be missing something. :roll: :wink:

You can buy a WRC car, to race privately, as long as they agree to sell you one :wink:

The WRC cars ARE road legal... they have to be to travel between stages.

To sum up, for £300k you can have your own WRC car to drive to work/school or at the weekends if you have the cash, and the team are willing to sell you a car :mrgreen:

[racingfreak]

You all seem to be missing something. :roll: :wink:

You can buy a WRC car, to race privately, as long as they agree to sell you one :wink:

The WRC cars ARE road legal... they have to be to travel between stages.

To sum up, for £300k you can have your own WRC car to drive to work/school or at the weekends if you have the cash, and the team are willing to sell you a car :mrgreen:

Yes, you are right number1, I remember last year marcus gronholm had a bent rim while trying to make it to the service park from the last stage and the cops pulled him over, so indeed the cars need to be roadworthy to get to the following stage, they even have number plates which means that they are indeed roadlegal :D

[No.1]

You all seem to be missing something. :roll: :wink:

You can buy a WRC car, to race privately, as long as they agree to sell you one :wink:

The WRC cars ARE road legal... they have to be to travel between stages.

To sum up, for £300k you can have your own WRC car to drive to work/school or at the weekends if you have the cash, and the team are willing to sell you a car :mrgreen:

Yes, you are right number1, I remember last year marcus gronholm had a bent rim while trying to make it to the service park from the last stage and the cops pulled him over, so indeed the cars need to be roadworthy to get to the following stage, they even have number plates which means that they are indeed roadlegal :D

Thx man 8)

And there was the incident in Rally GB a year or two ago, where the drivers got done for speeding by the police :roll: :wink:

[redbaron]

It would be great if there is a larger market of EVO/Sti cars. Hopefully will the next hot Focus a real WRC-based car with 300bhp and 4wd like they've already promised with the Focus RS.

[No.1]

It would be great if there is a larger market of EVO/Sti cars. Hopefully will the next hot Focus a real WRC-based car with 300bhp and 4wd like they've already promised with the Focus RS.

It isn't actually going to be WRC based, just a road to semi-rally conversion. It will not be as harsh as the WRC, but it will be substantially more powreful, and raw than the current RS.

[Wutputt]

And there was the incident in Rally GB a year or two ago, where the drivers got done for speeding by the police :roll: :wink:
Here in Belgium the police makes a game of it to place speed traps between the special stages to squeeze some money out of the rally drivers. I remember one driver who lost his driving license for speeding between to special stages. And if I remember correctly he wasn't allowed to drive anymore even on the special stages, so his codriver had tot take the wheel. I don't know why... maybe you have to have a valid driving license to enter a rally, so if you lose it, you aren't allowed anymore to drive the rally.

[Wutputt]

That's not right. I heard that while Hirvonnen was under 18... the codriver used to drive between the stages, because the driver didn't have the license. I don't know if it's true... but it has sense since the stages are CLOSED roads.
Well I though also they didn't need a driving license for the special stages, cause it are closed roads. Than there had been another reason why the codriver took the wheel during the special stage.

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

the point its that the rally car has to be a road legal car in drive between stages which are open road......and if a driver doesnt have the driving license or the age.....such as Hirvonen before 18, and Latvala as well....the codriver has to be the driving license in order to be driven the car between the stages

[mustang]

Ford do make road versions of there rally cars

the Focus RS

http://assets.in.gr/auto/news/images/big/focus_rs_02.jpg

the escort cosworth

http://utenti.lycos.it/fsgnefgkjetjskgshtg/hpbimg/Escort%20Cosworth%201.jpg

Ford RS200

http://sport.supereva.it/giovanni198061/ford%20rs200-%20lato2.jpg


Subaru do versons too

the subaru WR1 is inspired from petter solbergs WRC wining inpresa from last year

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/imprezawr104_02.jpg

Mitsubushi did the Tommi makkinen adition

http://www.penninewaygarage.com/dbimages/DSCF0030.JPG

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

I remember that RAC race in 1998.....and its exactly version that you said....about my favourite car ever.....although its one of the first cars launched on the market since the existance of the group A, i love most this car still.......the ford sierra rs cosworth in any original colour(the black, the blue or the white)........there you go some pics that ive got on my pc

Starting with my favourite car...
http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8133/1985-86SierraRSCosworth.th.jpg (http://img73.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img73&image=1985-86SierraRSCosworth.jpg)

the group A version of it although its not the best Group A ever

http://img79.exs.cx/img79/6818/album4b.th.jpg (http://img79.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img79&image=album4b.jpg)

The integrale

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/7159/Imagen20035.th.jpg (http://img73.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img73&image=Imagen20035.jpg)

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/9808/Imagen20036.th.jpg (http://img73.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img73&image=Imagen20036.jpg)

the pug 205 Turbo 16

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/7310/Imagen20025.th.jpg (http://img84.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img84&image=Imagen20025.jpg)

the renault 5 maxi turbo....which it must be a replica of it although it looks lovely

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/7793/Imagen20022.th.jpg (http://img84.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img84&image=Imagen20022.jpg)

of course....Mr Jean Ragnotti...and naturally oversteering the car

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/9230/grb-30.th.jpg (http://img84.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img84&image=grb-30.jpg)

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/7382/ragnotti3.th.jpg (http://img84.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img84&image=ragnotti3.jpg)

And finally the Escort Cosworth...although it looks like a street car, its maximum Group A car with 360 bhp, 18" wheels, big brakes....

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/1968/Rally20Gernika2019962004.th.jpg (http://img84.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img84&image=Rally20Gernika2019962004.jpg)

[redbaron]

Here in Belgium the police makes a game of it to place speed traps between the special stages to squeeze some money out of the rally drivers.


The dutch police does those things too.... Mostly in the surroundings of the service park and always with hidden cameras

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Its quite common here as well...and its said that its quite common in the british rallies as well....anyway......thenumber1 will confirm if im correct or not

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

lol...i did understand the topic in a clear way and thats why i put the sierra as my favourite one, otherwise id put the delta S4 or the Maxi Turbo...anyway.....the reason that i put the group B cars alongside the Group A its that...while i was transferring the sierra and the deltona pics to this section, i got the maxiturbo and the 205 pics alongside them on my pc, as a result and i couldnt resist leaving the Group B pics on my computer without sending them.....

Finally...if we start talking about the amount of fines that any driver get during the rallying days....we wont finish this conversation for about 4 years