Forza Vid 12:08

[FordGTGuy]

http://www.gamezone.tv/videos/forrza.wmv

low quality but hey good information

[dziunk14]

You have reasons

[vexor]

OMG OMG, this game will blow every other racing game away!!!

Only 8 players max on Xbox Live?

[RC45]

I don't know about "blow every other game away" - the video did not look that impressive.

Pretty much in line with current games. I suspect the handling engine is going to feel and react like Sega2002.

[vexor]

I don't know about "blow every other game away" - the video did not look that impressive.

Pretty much in line with current games. I suspect the handling engine is going to feel and react like Sega2002.

Waht?!?!?!? Sega GT 2002 realistic driving engine? no way, Toca 2 had a more realistic driving engine.

[RC45]

I don't know about "blow every other game away" - the video did not look that impressive.

Pretty much in line with current games. I suspect the handling engine is going to feel and react like Sega2002.

Waht?!?!?!? Sega GT 2002 realistic driving engine? no way, Toca 2 had a more realistic driving engine.

Uhm - that's my point. Sega2002 sucked :D (as does PGR2 in a way... ;))

They put more effort and emphasis in the "decal placement" and "bumper replacement" than needed.

Can you say RICE ;)

And the "dyno chart" is nothing special. SO far I see nothing that differentiats the game from any other title out there.

It is going to be a "nice to have" game - but as I say - so far nothing more that GT3 already had 4 years ago.. :P

Oh - and if they had to "read a popular US car magazine" to be able to determine their "certain ferrari" handled a certain way - just goes to show.

2 years of development means jack shit if never actually drive the cars... :P

p.s. Have Ferrari and everyone signed off on allowing damage modelling for their road cars?

[FordGTGuy]

RC45 you gotta do some research this game takes you to GT-4 lvls and higher.

[RC45]

RC45 you gotta do some research this game takes you to GT-4 lvls and higher.

Nope sorry - was not impressed at all with that video show boat of the game.

All that shit is simply eye candy.

Stickers and body kits? WTF.. ;)

Persistant paint scrapes and tyre tracks is nothing new.

If I buy it - it would simply be for the social online racing aspect -as with PGR2.

Without a force-feedback wheel it is just going be an arcade game :)

[Xploded]

Looks good, I will give it ago when it comes out.

[T-Bird]

well considering this game is coming out the same time as GT4, Halo 2 and San Andreas it will be far down on my list of games to get to, I prefer to stick to things I know before I start a new series.

This game better be better than the last "most realistic driving simulation" for Xbox, Toca 2 sucked major ass a waste of $25, every fucking car spun out on you.

[FordGTGuy]

RC45 check out the other article about forza read it all then get back to me about the game and tell me about a 100 layers of eye candy and the show boat game.

[RC45]

RC45 check out the other article about forza read it all then get back to me about the game and tell me about a 100 layers of eye candy and the show boat game.

I've read em all.

Just listening to that clown at the press release was enough for me to know it is aimed at the FnF crowd.

That jack-ass had NO idea what he was taling about as far as the automotive engineering part went.

And seriously - according to him - they found out that a "certain Ferrari" handled as in real life after they read a magazine article?

WTF - :roll:

That right there was enough for me to discard it as an arcade game.

[T-Bird]

He's got a point there.
Atleast with GT4 they spent thousands of hours driving every single car in the game and drove some that didn't make the cut, they know what those cars are capable of doing not what they are claimed to be able to do.

[vexor]

sigh... guys just rent the game when it comes out and see how much better it is than GT3 or 4.

btw does GT4 have damadge?

[5vz-fe]

^ GT4 does not have damage, I think due to car manufature complaining, but they do have crashing penalty if u would like to enable them.

[T-Bird]

sigh... guys just rent the game when it comes out and see how much better it is than GT3 or 4.

btw does GT4 have damadge?

well considering I can do that and not have to pay for it before it comes out I will be doing that but not the other games that WILL be better coming out at the same time.
Benefits of working at Blockbuster Part Time.

[RC45]

sigh... guys just rent the game when it comes out and see how much better it is than GT3 or 4.

btw does GT4 have damadge?

I already know.

It has no wheel support, so it is meant to be played lazing on the couch on the big screen TV - a social arcade game.. :P

GT3 and 4 are for more serious sit-up-and-drive folks.. :D

[T-Bird]

sigh... guys just rent the game when it comes out and see how much better it is than GT3 or 4.

btw does GT4 have damadge?

I already know.

It has no wheel support, so it is meant to be played lazing on the couch on the big screen TV - a social arcade game.. :P

GT3 and 4 are for more serious sit-up-and-drive folks.. :D


True but sometimes I don't want to use the wheel either for GT3 but if you want to you can that's the point, you have a choice. With Xbox you have the choice of an Xbox controller or an Xbox controller S

[RC45]

sigh... guys just rent the game when it comes out and see how much better it is than GT3 or 4.

btw does GT4 have damadge?

I already know.

It has no wheel support, so it is meant to be played lazing on the couch on the big screen TV - a social arcade game.. :P

GT3 and 4 are for more serious sit-up-and-drive folks.. :D


True but sometimes I don't want to use the wheel either for GT3 but if you want to you can that's the point, you have a choice. With Xbox you have the choice of an Xbox controller or an Xbox controller S

Very true... it's all about the choice man... the choice.. :P

[FordGTGuy]

its social and its a sit-up and racing game to me thats a sim. Its not Arcadey at all where do you get that? It has better physics and understandment of realistic car controls, limits, and capabilities. The AI learns how you race and fixes your mistakes down to the track, lap, turn, angle, and even weather then it adds the car capabilities to make it very hard. The AI has 10 settings of difficulties and depending on the difficulty the harder the more money you get for winning. Theirs so much about this game it would take me forever and 10 pages to tell you everything.

[RC45]

its social and its a sit-up and racing game to me thats a sim. Its not Arcadey at all where do you get that? It has better physics and understandment of realistic car controls, limits, and capabilities. The AI learns how you race and fixes your mistakes down to the track, lap, turn, angle, and even weather then it adds the car capabilities to make it very hard. The AI has 10 settings of difficulties and depending on the difficulty the harder the more money you get for winning. Theirs so much about this game it would take me forever and 10 pages to tell you everything.

Exactly - way too much shit :P

GT4 is the perfect evolution of GT3...

Forza sounds like Everquest with cars.. ;) Way too much in the wrong areas.

Besides - even though I make a living supporting Micro$haft Software based solutions - I don't mind the way Micro$haft take a winning concept - try bastardize it and then flood the market place so that their new crap becomes the standard - unless it is something I enjoy.. :P

Forza will look good, sound good - but play like shit... :D :lol:

[FordGTGuy]

ummmmm whats up with RC??????

[gis]

just watched the video,IMO it sounds impressive.as long as u donr HAVE to put bodykits on to do better in the game ill be happy :lol: :lol:

big question is though that everyone is saying........better than GT4? hmmm,could be interesting to find out

[FordGTGuy]

RC give the game a chance man your just calling the thing off like it was PGR3. The game will be better just not in sales or loyality just like Madden and ESPN 2k5.

gis bodykits will not make the car faster you ass you can prob get lighter than the ones you start off with or prob just rip the damn things off.

[T-Bird]

wow he was referring to NFS Underground with the bodykits it was sarcastic.

[FordGTGuy]

I know T-bird are you serious omfg thats dumb your telling me that the bodykits on NFSU make you faster hah now thats something to laugh at.

[T-Bird]

no but you do need them to advance through the game with reputation points.

[FordGTGuy]

omfg what stupid shit I always thought that game of a rice racer.

[vexor]

Does GT4 have online play like xbox Live?

[T-Bird]

yeah it should have it when it comes out.

[RC45]

Does GT4 have online play like xbox Live?

WHo needs ANOTHER online game... we have PGR2 and soon Foprza... :P ;) :lol:

[gis]

gis bodykits will not make the car faster you ass you can prob get lighter than the ones you start off with or prob just rip the damn things off.

b4 you start calling me an ass why dont u try to read what i wrote to understand.as T-Bird kindly pointed out is that i was bein sarcastic towards the game comparing it with NFSU.that game being to progress in the game u HAD to put stupid bodykits on

thank you T-Bird on clearing up what i meant :D

[T-Bird]

It's all good. You have a point though, if it was necessary I would be very pissed off, why waste money on a body kit when I can buy a perfectly good Turbo.

[gis]

^^^^^ exactly,id rather progress with my own doings and not what i HAVE to do

[RC45]

^^^^^ exactly,id rather progress with my own doings and not what i HAVE to do

In fact - when replaying GT3, I really enjoyed the challenge of completing races with fewer and fewer mods.. :)

This really tested your driving more than your budget skills in buying the best mods. :P

[SilviaEvo]

looks okay this and PGR2 will be the only good racing games for Xbox

[5vz-fe]

I think those game programmers are just not making the 100% use of X-Box hardware. X-Box supposingly have better hardware in every single way than a PS2 yet graphics of GT4 is stunning in every detail while games like Fronza still appear to be a bit more arcade(ish).

Those body kits and AI design, I really don't think it will be needed in GT4, for most ppl who buys GT4 are going after the fact it is the next best thing than driving the real deal. Ppl who cares about appearance of their cars can always buy NFSU2. They are just making a clear cut of their market. That is quite clever, for Fronza will never be able to steal much sales from GT4. Polyphony and Sony dumps tons of money into R&D and testing real cars, and real cars with mods, I doubt Fronza have done the same. This alone makes it apples and oranges comparison IMO.

[FordGTGuy]

^^^ have you even checked out the screen shots for Forza it makes GT4 look like PS1??? I don't see the arcadey look either? when you watch this vid of Forza they even show you the suspension and the tires working on bumps and turns.

People who buy Forza do it for realistic everything from looks to mods to physics to gameplay to AI. And Forza won't need to use all of X-box. Having power is not the same as using power I don't think there has been a game to use the whole power of a console ever. BTW the GT4 pics that look great are in replay which is buffed to look better. Plus Forza doesn't need to compete with GT they're on two different consoles and SRS and Juiced suck compare to Forza hands down. Being on a different console gives the game a whole different community to sell to and only 20-30% of that community has xbox and Ps2 and 50-60% of the are getting both, 8-5% of them are getting Forza alone, 10-15% aren't getting racing games, 17% are getting GT4 alone.

[gis]

in terms of graphics IMO GT4 looks better,ive got the GT4 prolouge and the graphics are just amazing,so on terms of graphics i think GT4 has forza beat.thats just my oppinion though.

[FordGTGuy]

^^^omg thats so under thought the graphics of GT4 are shit compared to Forza.

[RC45]

^^^omg thats so under thought the graphics of GT4 are shit compared to Forza.

How did you come to this conclusion?

[FordGTGuy]

how can you even compare the graphics.

your going to compare these:

GT4:

http://www.gamerswave.com/gt4.2.jpg

http://www.gamerswave.com/gt4.11.jpg

http://www.gamerswave.com/gt4.13.jpg

http://www.gamerswave.com/gt4.12.jpg

http://www.gamerswave.com/gt4.14.jpg

http://www.gamerswave.com/ps2140503.htm

with these:

Forza Motorsport

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2004/07/23/h-103_28871_07230001.jpg.jpg

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2004/07/23/h-103_28871_072300002.jpg.jpg

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/3507/ja1.jpg

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/7858/ja2.jpg

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/8443/ja3.jpg

http://img13.exs.cx/img13/4990/ja4.jpg

c'mon how can you compare?

The ones that look like PGR2 on GT4 are replays not in game these screen shots all of them are in game.

[5vz-fe]

*EDIT*

[5vz-fe]

GT4:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/561066_20040512_screen001.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/561066_20040512_screen005.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/561066_20040512_screen016.jpg

Forza:

riced out: (So many sponsors yet so shitty, they are prolly all livery sponsors)
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920720_20040510_screen002.jpg

see what I mean by arcade(ish)?:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920720_20040510_screen005.jpg

I don't see how the physics engine comes into play here, clearly there's no body roll in those 2:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/920720_20040510_screen011.jpg

[FordGTGuy]

5vz-fe like I have said those are from replay not game play. Forza doesn't arcadish that pics shows the depth and look of the background how does it look arcadey.


Pics don't show physics watch the video please.

[RC45]

5vz-fe like I have said those are from replay not game play. Forza doesn't arcadish that pics shows the depth and look of the background how does it look arcadey.


Pics don't show physics watch the video please.

GT3 already had the same suspension physics. Nothing new.. :P

[5vz-fe]

It's not the depth of the picture...it is the whole feel......as in those trees, and grass give it a feel that it is from a drawing if u know what I mean...but doesn't really matter, everyone are allowed to have their own opinion.

[gis]

^^^omg thats so under thought the graphics of GT4 are shit compared to Forza.

you aint by any chance a sales man undercover to promote this game are you? :wink:

as u can see from the pics above,GT4 isnt shit in graphics.and when i said the graphics are better in GT4 i meant in the game not replay,i played GT4 prolouge and the graphics are awesome,very impressive,has a more realistic look than forza,not that im saying forza is shit coz it isnt

[T-Bird]

ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near.
Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

[RC45]

ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near.
Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

Hope they have a yellow cab for using in NY... ;)

[666fast]

ypu can't forget the reactive spectators in GT4 that react to the cars as they pass by like the people in the road in the rally events that move back when you get near.
Forza looks like it is going to be all race tracks GT4 has some street races aswell with very in depth detail especially the New York scenes.

If the spectators end up anything like they were in the Toyota Demo, they really aren't worth mentioning. LOL

All i know, is that I don't have to choose which game is better and which one to buy. I'll get both. :P

Pics are pics, none of that really matters. Screencaps can be spruced up before being released. Comment on the graphics when you have
played both games.

I don't care what game has better graphics, as long as it's a good game, it won't matter. If it's shit, awesome graphics won't save it.

[FordGTGuy]

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/548/548311p1.html

american muscles and classics announced :shock: :D

lemme connect all the car lists in article right here go to article for pics.

Classic Muscle Car Roster

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T Hemi

1968 Shelby Shelby GT500KR

1970 Ford Mustang Boss 429

1970 Chevrolet Camaro Z28

1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS Coupe

1968 Pontiac GTO Hardtop Coupe

Classic Sports Car Roster

1966 Ford GT40 MK II

1967 Ferrari 330 P4

1967 AC 427 MKIII

1964 Ferrari 250 GTO

1969 Ferrari 246 Dino GT

1974 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale

1961 Jaguar S1 E-type 3.8

1967 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 427 L-88

1972 Lotus Elan Sprint

1954 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing Coupe

1972 Datsun 240ZX

1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS

1955 Porsche 550 Spyder (James Dean Edition)

1969 Toyota 2000gt

Aftermarket Tuner Roster

1995 Tom's Tom's T020 (MR2)

1995 VIS Racing MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)

1995 Border MR2 Turbo T-bar (Widebody)

2002 Tom's Tom's W123 (Toyota MR-S)

2000 Aerogear Integra R (Widebody)

2000 VIS Racing Integra R (Widebody)

2004 Wings West Civic R J Spec (Widebody)

2002 Mugen Mugen Integra Type R (Japan)

2003 APR Performance Celica GTS (Widebody)

2004 Mugen Mugen Civic Type R Hatch

2002 Guldstrand Corvette Guldstrand Edition

2000 Saleen Saleen S281 (Based on the Mustang)

2003 Mugen Mugen NSX

2003 Mugen Mugen S2000 (Hardtop)

1995 INGS RX-7 (Widebody)

1995 AB Flug RX-7 (Widebody)

2002 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira 2002 R34

2002 Mine's Mine's GT-R (R34)

1995 Mine's Mine's Skyline R32 GT-R

1998 Tommy Kaira Tommy Kaira Impreza M20b 2002

1995 Mine's Mine's CP9A Lancer Evolution VI RS

2004 Sparco Sparco Lancer Evo

2002 Tom's Z382 (SC430)

2000 Hennessey Hennessey Viper 800TT

2002 Lingenfelter Lingenfelter 427 CID Twin Turbo Corvette

1998 AB Flug Supra Turbo S900 (Widebody)

1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 99 (Widebody)

1998 VeilSide Supra Turbo 03 (Widebody)

check out this vette going to go get them posted in a sec.

[FordGTGuy]

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/4310/forza-motorsport-20040915042117039.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915042117039.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/2161/forza-motorsport-20040915042117492.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915042117492.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/8647/forza-motorsport-20040915041738585.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915041738585.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/2908/forza-motorsport-20040915035302992.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915035302992.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/9789/forza-motorsport-20040818070212608.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040818070212608.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/1166/forza-motorsport-20040804070215197.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040804070215197.jpg)

compare this rx-8 with the GT4 one and this one looks better even against the image polished gt4 one.

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/6848/forza-motorsport-20040915035304429.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915035304429.jpg)

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/2198/forza-motorsport-20040915035259492.th.jpg (http://img87.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img87&image=forza-motorsport-20040915035259492.jpg)

[Vansquish]

^^^ have you even checked out the screen shots for Forza it makes GT4 look like PS1??? I don't see the arcadey look either? when you watch this vid of Forza they even show you the suspension and the tires working on bumps and turns.

People who buy Forza do it for realistic everything from looks to mods to physics to gameplay to AI. And Forza won't need to use all of X-box. Having power is not the same as using power I don't think there has been a game to use the whole power of a console ever. BTW the GT4 pics that look great are in replay which is buffed to look better. Plus Forza doesn't need to compete with GT they're on two different consoles and SRS and Juiced suck compare to Forza hands down. Being on a different console gives the game a whole different community to sell to and only 20-30% of that community has xbox and Ps2 and 50-60% of the are getting both, 8-5% of them are getting Forza alone, 10-15% aren't getting racing games, 17% are getting GT4 alone.

I categorically disagree with you...the fact is that while it does look better than PGR2 and certainly better than GT1,2, and 3, (higher polygon count and higher resolution), the graphics still look fake...contrived to be eye candy as some of the other guys have already said. GT4 appeals to the people who are serious about racing and driving in and of itself. The physics of the GT series are unparalleled, I've played just about every game on the market that purports to be their equal and most can't even match up to GT1 even though it had bouncy corners. The cars "feel" like cars...you can sense minute attitude changes while driving. This is the bread and butter of the GT series...physics realism, not graphical perfection (a test at which I'm sorry to say Forza falls short as well) are the intent and the most important part of the game. I haven't found a game with decent AI either...none, the GT series can't do it very well, the NFS series are terrible, as is PGR2....nothing reacts like a real driver would. So don't pull some BS out about how it's wonderful in Forza, I'll believe it when I see it. As for the suspension and tires...have you looked at GT1 lately...yes, even GT1 had working suspension that was visible in replays and on the racetrack. As for permanent skid marks, those have been around forever...I can recall them as far back as 1991 in a DOS-based F1 game I had...not impressed.

As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.

[5vz-fe]

As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.

Well said Vansquish....u took the words out of my mouth, especially with the new pics that FordGTGuy posted...the corvette looks seperated from the track.

[Vansquish]

more like off of your keyboard I imagine hehe :-P

[FordGTGuy]

GT4 looks like the same thing and worst the shadows on all the cars is just a box of black under the car and a lighter shadow next to it. Plus it does look like the cars are not connected to the ground in GT4 to but Forzas graphics are still being polished unlike GT4s.


As for the "arcadey" look...just look at where the tires meet the road, the way the shadows fall, the fact that the cars look placed on the road as if they're part of some Java applet. Even if the poly-count on GT4 is lower than that of Forza, think about these two things....1) in Forza, the cars look separate from the road surface and surroundings, whereas in GT4 (yes, even the race-footage) they look at one with their surroundings, and 2) The Xbox is a much more powerful system, so the fact that we're even deigning to compare the two says something about the realism that GT4 offers...the people behind Forza and PGR2 need to learn something from the Polyphony camp about realism, then they'll have a killer game and I'll need to buy an Xbox. Until that day...it's GT4 all the way.


If you wanna talk about an arcadey look look at GT4. Anyway their is no such thing as an arcadey look so what does a sim look like??? The people PGR2 were making a arcade the people behind Forza are making a sim two different things and two different companies. They don't have to learn about Polyphony's realism since the Physics are very good in the game. GT4s physics will not compare. GT4 vs Forzas AI is just stupid Forza brought in a Robot AI maker and made an AI called Drivatater the most advance AI ever put on a console game. GT4s AI follows lines set by programmers and pose no difficulty. You know nothing about how people take these pictures and enhance them 100xs to make them look better. You wanna show me in game you have to show me a non-enhanced shot of the back of the car which is the only way to view the car in game.

you should read arguments about this before you go out saying anything.

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=4914&page=8


http://boards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=7806

[Vansquish]

OK...since you obviously didn't read what I wrote, I'm going to requote myself so that you can attempt to read it again...


the fact is that while it does look better than PGR2 and certainly better than GT1,2, and 3, (higher polygon count and higher resolution), the graphics still look fake...contrived to be eye candy as some of the other guys have already said. GT4 appeals to the people who are serious about racing and driving in and of itself. The physics of the GT series are unparalleled, I've played just about every game on the market that purports to be their equal and most can't even match up to GT1 even though it had bouncy corners. The cars "feel" like cars...you can sense minute attitude changes while driving. This is the bread and butter of the GT series...physics realism, not graphical perfection (a test at which I'm sorry to say Forza falls short as well) are the intent and the most important part of the game. I haven't found a game with decent AI either...none, the GT series can't do it very well, the NFS series are terrible, as is PGR2....nothing reacts like a real driver would. So don't pull some BS out about how it's wonderful in Forza, I'll believe it when I see it.


Now that you've had a chance to read again, did you see anywhere in that where I said that GT4 had great AI? Did I attempt to argue that GT4's graphics were better/cleaner than those in Forza? If you read it this time, I think you'll find that in fact I didn't.


The people PGR2 were making a arcade the people behind Forza are making a sim two different things and two different companies


Perhaps after you learn to formulate a sentence that is grammatically correct you'll also discover that if you talk to someone who worked on PGR2, they'll be extremely offended if you refer to the game as an "arcade"-style game. PGR2 was intended to be a Sim of the highest qualifications, as is Forza. I'm not going to argue with you over the technicalities of whether Forza is a decent game, it's just not realistic enough for my tastes. I'm sure it's just fine.


GT4s physics will not compare


You're right, GT4's physics engine is, and will always be a better use of the platform and a more successful attempt at realism than Forza's. As for where things go from here, I imagine that the PS3 will rectify any complaints you might have over graphical realism and poly-count.


You know nothing about how people take these pictures and enhance them 100xs to make them look better. You wanna show me in game you have to show me a non-enhanced shot of the back of the car which is the only way to view the car in game.


I beg to differ. Your argument has not one, but two fallacies within it. The first is that you have proven nothing to the effect that the "screens" from Forza are in fact un-enhanced. The second problem lies with the fact that you have made the assumption that I don't know anything about photo/screen-enhancing equipment and programs. In fact I do...I have minimal experience with them myself, but I am well aware of their capabilities as one of my roommates is a graphical artist as are several of my very close friends.


you should read arguments about this before you go out saying anything.

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=4914&page=8


http://boards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=7806


As for sending me to look at pages of arguments between a bunch of rabid PS2 and Xbox fans, I can't say they do much to enhance my image of you, nor of your sensibilities. These are simply pages of opinionated banter with no substance behind them. I have no respect for that. Hard proof is the only way to go if you want to argue something. Solid physical data is the absolute by which things must be measured, I'm a physicist, remember...I think things through before getting into arguments with the likes of you.

[FordGTGuy]

if you are telling me the truth why are you saying that GT4 is going to be a better sim than Forza without cold hard facts??

Plus PGR2 was made as an arcade game but yes it does share some sim qualities.

[5vz-fe]

As a hardcore car fans myself, I am actually surprise how little I care about the AI in a racing game (maybe if I were a street racer that might be a different situation). The last thing I want is at the last lap a smartass AI knock you into a spin and you lost the race. I know I do that sometimes to the AI, but, hey, I pay for the game, of course I deserve to have some edge lol. So, there is totally nothing wrong with the AI in GT4 trying to go on the ultimate racing line.

I don't know if you notice, but individual object's quality of Forza is better than GT4, yet when they are put together, u feel something is not right. Don't u ever wonder why the clarity of far objects and close objects are the similar in Forza? U sure u feel the 2nd and 3rd pic of the corvette u posted are connected to the tract? I never doubt the graphics of Forza, but one gotta take into account of these little things before saying that it has better graphics in every area over GT4.

In a racing game, it is the physics engine (handling of different cars, how they react with different modifications) that weights the most. This is like few years back when ppl start playing Counter-Strike with a Geforce 2 or worse, they still get addicted to it. This is not because of graphics, it is because of game play. Forza definitely won't be able to beat the 500+ cars and many many different tracks. I am also not a big fan of the fact that you need to trade over internet to get the car you want.